This is all a bit much. A recent comparison of three different sheng versions also was, but to me the results were interesting, and they helped place some general themes that were playing out. I'm trying something even less narrow and reasonable in range this time, trying three different green teas together.
Why is this a problem? For one reason because I'm just getting over a flu. Yesterday was one of few days I skipped drinking tea, and while sick for a few days before that I would sometimes split drinking a version over two days (twice).
For more standard reasons because of the range of styles and aspects. Of course the Japanese tea (a sencha) is going to cover mostly umami and vegetal flavors, including seaweed, and the other two won't. Both of the others are "wild origin" green versions, so trying them together would make more sense.
But I wanted to check on to what extent this broad-scope approach could provide input about the entire range. Is there more to it about Japanese green differences than just that flavor range? Does some particular rough edge or off flavors identify a lower quality level for either of the others? Did a factor like limited oxidation input seem to come up for any? Probably more than I addressed, actually; this doesn't speculate about that. Is this a hit or a miss for another ITea World version? Most of theirs have been pretty decent, but some less so than others.
I'll add information about the teas after tasting, during editing, the usual process.
Viet Sun Lai Châu Deep Forest Green Spring 2024 ($23 for 100 grams)
The tea trees in this area are growing to heights of 10+ meters in the deep forest at 2200m+ in elevation. The rich biodiversity and natural growing conditions really make their way into the cup.
This tea brews up slowly into a rich, clear golden soup. The flavor is unique and complex. Reminds me of forest flower honey, herbs, strawberry or raspberry and wild grasses with a lot of umami. There are some similarities to Japanese green teas.
Just a touch of astringency, no bitterness, thick mouthfeel, rich huigan and relaxing qi...
Another interesting aspect of this tea is the aging potential. I have tried teas from past years and they get sweeter and richer over time. The honey notes become more prominent as well.
ITea World Chinese Shan Ye Wild Green Tea ($25 for 40 grams)
There is no text description, so this picture will do.
Related to value this already looks pretty bad for the ITea World product comparison, since I'll jump ahead and say that I liked the Viet Sun version better, and this costs slightly more for 40 grams of it than 100 grams of the Vietnamese version. It is very novel in style, and supply and demand factors can be complicated, but that's a pretty one-sided comparison.
It expressed one very minor flaw early in rounds, which I'll get around to explaining, and people could see that differently, perhaps as not a flaw at all. It would be possible to see a limitation in intensity, present in the Viet Sun version, as a significant flaw instead, which I sort of didn't, since it's so easy to correct for that with brewing approach.
That vendor asked me to mention a "summer sale," which normally I don't do, but it seems like a nice balancing point to saying this particular tea isn't worth it. There are details on their website. The strength of this vendor has been offering pretty decent sample sets, at good value, with a relatively low free shipping threshold, if I remember right. I wouldn't buy a lot of any of their teas without exploring them through samples first, but some are pretty good, novel and a good value. Some basics match conventional styles well, this particular tea just isn't shooting for that.
This is probably a good vendor option for first exploring medium quality teas, or for a gift related to the same purpose. Later on if someone is seeking out even higher quality, or best of best value, then often two different other kinds of vendors cover those better. Or Viet Sun and Tea Mania are pretty solid across a broad range; it doesn't have to just be one part of that.
Tea Mania HANDPICKED HONYAMA SENCHA ($32 for 50 grams)
Honyama (also known as Tamakawa) is considered by connoisseurs of Japanese Sencha teas as one of the top growing areas. In Honyama, where the Abe River springs, are ideal conditions for top quality tea. The nights are clear and cool and the morning misty. The narrow valleys also ensure natural shading of the tea fields. So it is not surprising that the tea leaves in this area are about one month later ready for harvest compared to tea from the low-lying areas near Shizuoka city.
The tea leaves for this handpicked Honyama Sencha where manually harvested by Mr. Shoten’s family. Therefore, the leaves are longer and more intact compared to does harvest by machines. Also, the stems get less damaged as they are picked at the plant’s natural breaking point. Thus, the tea leaves get less oxidized and taste even more refreshing.
It’s said that tea from Honyama was Shogun Tokugawa’s favorite tea. After tasting this tea we strongly believe this lore.
To me a lot of story line in marketing content is often a red flag; I'd rather buy the tea itself than the story. For sure this is great quality Japanese green tea though, and it would mean a lot more to people on that page than it does to me (the tea quality; the story could go either way).
People on that page would be better at brewing them than I am too; I really botched that in this tasting. I got some sense of the tea but didn't experience it in optimum form. Doing a lot of things at one time can be tricky, and I was already hazy as could be for only being most of the way recovered from a flu.
This cost $64 for 100 grams instead of $23 for the Viet Sun version; is it that much better? That's kind of not even the right question, I don't think. It's a completely different style of tea. I wouldn't be the one to know but at a guess this is still probably pretty decent value, because it's not an ordinary range green tea version, it's a distinctive, good quality Japanese green tea. I don't really love that but I get it; it's an in-demand style range.
Review:
Viet Sun Lai Chau Deep Forest Green, 2024: it's interesting how some of the flavor range is still evolving and some stands out so much right away. There's plenty of umami in this; that won't be a complete difference. I'm a little concerned that the lack of sweetness and missing part of a normal flavor profile may relate to my palate. These findings will be of limited value if I'm missing part of a sense of taste, which really could be the case. I stopped being quite sick a few days ago but this illness just won't end.
ITea World Shan Ye Wild Green Tea: vegetal range is so strong in this, maybe mostly centered on green beans, but also including a green vegetable range along the line of kale. It wouldn't be surprising if this is a close match for a leafy vegetable I'm not familiar with. From there a really strong mineral layer stands out, so strong that it might extend to taste a little like tobacco, or even a hint of ash. It's not positive.
The darker color leaf and liquid suggests this may have oxidized a little, but who knows. It definitely includes quite a bit of bud content, the only version of the three to do so. I'll need to keep brewing times limited for this to be approachable.
Tea Mania Honyama Sencha (Yabukita plant type): that's too strong to drink. All three were brewed for the same time, with one light, one a bit strong, and this one undrinkable. Apparently there's a learning curve for Japanese green tea I need to go back through; it's been a number of years. I can try to dilute it a little to get a sense of it but essentially it's better luck next round. I used half as much leaf for this version as the other two, by appearance, recognizing that it would be a lot more dense, but I missed getting that right by a lot.
Even diluted there's not much to add; it's promising, but not ok to drink in this form. This probably won't stand up to brewing using water this hot either, which is far too hot for normal green tea, unless someone is on the page of brewing them around 90 C or so. I'll drop the temperature for all three, and will stick with flash infusions for this.
Using hot water can be ok for some green tea types (not full boiling point, maybe, but not so far off that); it just depends. Preference factors in too, but also some won't extract objectionable range compounds and aspects all that fast, so you can carry on using fast infusion times to limit that. Typically Japanese green teas aren't regarded as suitable for this approach. Peter of Tea Mania sent two versions of sencha, or maybe the other was "white sencha," whatever that would be; maybe I'll get back to trying this again with approach dialed in. After botching it a few more rounds here though, even after adjustments.
Viet Sun #2: not intense enough; this needed to brew longer. It's odd that the other two are way too strong, with the sencha at what looks to be a higher proportion, then this is still too light. I'll do more of a flavor list next round. What comes across is pleasant; light floral range, decent sweetness, no overpowering umami, astringency, or pronounced vegetal range.
ITea World Shan Ye: that one mineral note leans more towards ash; that's a little off-putting. The rest is nice, pleasant and interesting. These are a bit light to base a developed opinion on but without that one note they seem kind of equivalent, and with it considered the Vietnamese tea is better.
Tea Mania sencha: drinkable; at least it's that close to optimally brewed. There's the intense, pronounced umami that people seek out. It tastes like seaweed, with some floral range entering in beyond that. I think this is a range of tea that you have to acclimate to like, or it would be like that for most. I've drank some sencha, some hundreds of grams worth, but nothing like most of the rest of the tea types I prefer more, kgs of pu'er, oolong of different types, and black teas.
The things people would center in on as most desirable in this style and type range wouldn't be completely familiar to me; I'd be guessing. Of course pronounced umami is part of that, and other flavor complexity, aftertaste experience, mineral layer input, and so on. But I mean that often very limited parts of an aspect set can work as quality markers, as identifiers between good and very good versions, with typical flaws as the opposite side of those considerations.
When I scan through sencha reviews in a place My Japanese Green Tea blog I can't help but think "what's all this, brother?" Or at least that's it framed within one of Keoni's favorite meme forms.
Vietnamese #3: it was extra messing around but I brewed this using much hotter water than the other two. Not for too long, but enough that it seemed it would extract well. This is pleasant but still subtle. That's interesting; for other tea types that could come up, and could be normal, but a subtle version of green tea is odd. I had tried the 2023 version and don't remember that as part of the experience.
The aspects that are there are quite positive; this is my favorite of the three. You would just need to push this a little harder to get intensity back into a normal range, using slightly hotter water, or longer infusion time. Aspect set would vary depending on which approach you took. Again there is some floral range to this, and limited vegetal scope, but I suppose some. It's near a neutral sugar-snap pea input, versus green beans or seaweed, much heavier and more dominant range. Sweetness is pretty good, and tone is light. I don't mean intensity, I mean brightness versus warmth of flavors; it's "bright."
If I just liked green tea more I'd really like this more. As it is I could still drink a good bit of it.
Chinese Shan Ye: I never will have any idea why there's an ashy sort of limited intensity edge to this. It also includes a malty sort of character; that part is nice, and unique. Tone is much warmer than for the first. Feel is thicker; there's more to it on that one level. Floral range is less bright and sweet than for the Vietnamese version, I guess in a wildflower sort of range, but possibly more complex, with more happening along that line. Vegetal range is more towards cured hay, tying in with or just being an alternative interpretation of what I've described as malty (Ovaltine malty, not like Assam).
With the absolute slightest change of that one flavor note not being present this would come across much differently. It's barely perceptible now anyway, having faded over the rounds, but at least related to how I see teas there are some flavor inputs that can disproportionately shift a general impression. A hint of cacao or cherry in a black tea can change everything, and a touch of tartness can cause an opposite less favorable impression. In green teas a little extra kale flavor can really throw things off, and a bright floral note can shift it all the other way. That smoke could be ok if it wasn't as close to ash range. It's all but gone anyway in this round, and should be clear in the next.
Sencha: it's interesting trying a much stronger tea in this version. This proportion is wrong; this should be made from half as much leaf. But it's brewed fast using quite cool water, so it's still not optimum but it's fine. Everything it expresses is intense: umami, some seaweed, floral range, sweetness, and now an increased mineral layer. As a sheng drinker I should see that as somewhat positive; why shouldn't it be intense? And I do, but the umami takes some getting used to.
20 years ago I really couldn't relate to seaweed much at all (beyond eating a good bit of sushi eons ago, but I'll leave that part out), and gradually over the years it just kept coming up living in Bangkok. My wife ate mostly Japanese food when pregnant with Keoni, 16 years ago. She said the he was "ordering it," essentially. That was right after spending two years in Hawaii, and people love it there too.
But half the time I have ramen I hand over the pressed square of it to Kalani, who loves it, even though that form is mild and pleasant. This is a level more intense, for seaweed related flavor input, but it's still ok. I suppose it's still odd to me that people choose to have this experience, that they pay extra for it being so pronounced. Then again the sheng pu'er I drink often tastes like taking an aspirin, and that took me a half dozen years of routine exposure to prefer.
Viet Sun Vietnamese #4: this should be enough notes, and plenty of tea. I've thrown out the last of most rounds, to keep this manageable, but I've also drank most of 9 small cups of tea so far.
Bright floral, good sweetness, limited and pleasant vegetal range, again like sugar snap pea. There's probably more going on with this related to round-to-round transition that I'm missing; brewing approach has been a little rough. Feel could be thicker and richer but it's fine like this to me; there's no need for all the parts to be intense. Someone looking for "quality markers" might see it as falling short but to me the balance works. Intensity is a little limited, but it's easy to adjust brewing to dial that up. Not much comes across as a flaw in this, to me, although again limited intensity could be seen that way. And it's distinctive enough, even if the other two are more novel, looked at one way. It's my favorite of the three.
ITea World Shan Ye: that warm rich tone comes across more like toasted rice than cured hay or malt, this round. That's familiar ground, closer to Longjing style. If all the earlier infusions had been more similar to this one, varying some but not so different, this would've been better. Again it's probably possible to dial in more optimum results by tweaking brewing. For good Longjing you don't need to do that, of course; you can brew it at full boiling point, or much cooler, and not letting it get too strong is about the only limitation to work around.
That one minor aspect really threw off the first few rounds, for me. This is still pretty good though, and brewed Western style after a quick rinse it may have been much better.
Tea Mania sencha: as described in the last two rounds again. Even though Longjing is my favorite green tea type, and I've just described the Shan Ye version of settling near that typical character, I can still see the appeal in this. It's clearly better tea, in a few senses. It's more intense and complex, and a bit sweeter, with no significant flaws. Even the strong umami and seaweed flavor I don't hate. I suppose floral range has drawn closer to seaweed, so now it balances both. If you aren't accustomed to that flavor then even at a lower level it really stands out. I've eaten ramen with seaweed a few times in the past month, mostly going off miso soup lately, but I definitely don't seek out that range of experience (the seaweed part).
It's odd drinking and reviewing a sencha and going on and on about placing umami and seaweed flavor. Surely most people know what they're getting into, and are there for that.
This is probably complete heresy but to me sencha works better with food than drank alone. That reminds me of a critique of a whiskey version saying that's it's ok but it's better mixed with Coke. Surely the quality level is so good in this version that plenty of people would appreciate it in a completely different way than I can.
Conclusions:
To me really late rounds transitions aren't much of the main story but a couple were interesting. The ITea World tea tasted a good bit like fennel seed in the last couple of rounds, beyond those. The sencha picked up an unusual vegetal character, which reminded me of the taste when you bite a watermelon seed. Then the Viet Sun tea stayed pretty much the same.
I'm not sure how well that post worked related to judging teas across the main criteria I often use: related to writing out an aspects set, in comparison with my own personal preference, as being true to type for a known version, or placed in relation to some objective quality level.
The Vietnamese tea represented a standard, general wild-origin green tea type well enough, but there isn't a narrow character range expectation for that. The Japanese green tea was probably the only one that could be judged against pre-determined type expectations, but I don't have the proper background to dial that in to finer level comparison. It seemed really good quality to me, but then I don't love sencha.
The Chinese green tea was perhaps the most novel, and it was one very minor flaw away from being much better than I judged it to be. If it had only had a hint of smoke included instead of what came across as a touch of ash flavor. I suspect plenty of local producer teas can pick up just a little smoke flavor from incidental contact in being around the processing environment, where fire is used for heating. It had been a lot more common for sheng pu'er versions in the past. I have no idea why that inclusion took an unconventional form this time.
It's always interesting reviewing green teas, as my least favorite main category version. I don't like any of these quite as much as Hinyang Maojian and Himjian versions I tried not so long ago; those were something else. But then I wouldn't buy those to drink either, pretty much no matter what they cost. Somehow I crave some good Longjing once in awhile and that's about it.
On a personal note suffering is what I've been up to, with that flu not the worst of it. I wasn't on this flight; the rest of my family is back in Honolulu again. I'll visit before too long, and until then some cats and I hold down the fort in Bangkok.
Eye, my wife, had a uniquely rough week. She went through a flu too, and an injury related to slipping and falling that last week (hence the extra equipment). She's tough as nails though; she was more concerned about the kids playing too many video games than the beating life had put on her just then.
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