1990s 8972 (aged sheng pu'er)

I'm reviewing an interesting version of tea passed on by my new tea friend, who I've mentioned in the past two posts, as one of the founders and owners of Teas We Like.  I don't know that this is one of their products, since we didn't discuss that, but it could be, since there's one on their site that matches the little I know about it:

90s CNNP 8972 Naked Brick  (listed for $120)

This is a 90s 8972 brick from CNNP. There is some debate about this recipe, but we believe it is a blend of predominantly sheng with some light fermentation shou. This brick went through traditional HK storage and then spent 20 years in dry Taiwan storage, resulting in a very clean, dark, and satisfying entry with plenty of thickness and bittersweetness. It has a dense, strong Menghai character. It has no wodui aroma or taste, no smoke, and a small amount of traditional storage earthiness in the background. A good casual and comfortable drink with an aged puerh profile.

250g brick, not wrapped.

That pricing seems on the low side, for tea of that age, doesn't it?  But then "a good casual and comfortable drink" sounds on the basic side.  Basic for them might mean something else entirely for more casual tea drinkers.

It's especially interesting that they speculate that it could be a mix of mostly sheng and some shou.  I've heard of such things, but there's a good chance that this is the first time I've tried an example.  I didn't notice that much shou input in trying it, but then roughly 30 year old sheng isn't that familiar a theme to me.  

I could add more about the last 2 in that number code relating to the Menghai Tea Factory, now known as Dayi (or Taetea), but that leads straight into early history of Chinese tea production that I know little about.  Different producers made tea for the main government entity, which already implies more than actually mean.  It's easy to look up more on that background, that would fill in some details.

I wrote these notes before seeing that description, which is how reviews here always go.  I knew what was in the post title.

Review:

#1:  interesting!  I've tried aged sheng before but it has been a long time since I've tried anything similar to this, even though it might be a standard enough form, probably well above average factory tea, favorably stored, and around 30 years old.  

It's clean at the start.  In some past cases--of trying older sheng, even some from the 80s--there was a heavier fermentation input flavor range to get past, which took a couple of infusions, but this might just include a little more char effect than it's going to after another round or two.  What I take to be what people describe as betel nut comes across in a strong form right away (although to be clear I never get around to trying that, even though it's out there in Bangkok's Chinatown).  Feel is especially nice too, rich and smooth, a bit velvety.  Aftertaste is pronounced, although that will probably pick up further, leaving behind that heavy mineral, unusual herb, and the touch of char.

I could keep going; someone could free associate another more flavors or experiential aspects, just from this first infusion.  That's really something.  It leans a little toward a dried fruit that I'm not making out.  Warmer and heavier tone could seem a little like an aged tree bark, maybe pine bark, but it doesn't include the sharpness of pine needle.  The mineral range is interesting, but it's easy to get stuck on that tasting like some kind of rock.  I'm not getting much ginseng or medicinal herb yet, but those would fill in a lot of the rest of the typical flavor range of aged pu'er, or I guess camphor also might be added to that.  

It was an interesting first round.  This will "clean up" over another round or two, and the minimal mustiness and char will probably drop out completely, even though it wasn't pronounced.  

#2:  creaminess picks up; that's pleasant.  The early char is transitioning nicely to include a heavy and warm bark spice.  It's always hard describing what the rest of bark spice range is, or root spice, for that matter, beyond cinnamon (and ginseng).  I drank a broad range of tisanes over a decade or so before getting into tea, but didn't keep track.

I think I'll limit the free association of possible flavor connections this round.  It's nice just experiencing the tea.  

Maybe I am already "feeling" this?  I'm internally inconsistent, making it harder to judge that kind of thing.  I don't sleep so regularly, and often get really intense exercise inputs in long runs, so my body works through a lot of natural variation.  Some really pleasant ocean swimming and getting extra sleep has been balancing me better than usual lately.  

It does seem to impart a calm, clear energy, even though I don't notice or value that about teas much.  I'm on a balcony on a sunny, breezy, perfect temperature day, sitting beside rustling palm trees, so maybe some of that effect would happen without tea.

#3:  even using moderate proportion (for me, or really just normal range, about 5 grams in 100 ml gaiwan) this is fairly intense.  4 grams would've been fine.  As I've covered at length here I don't weigh tea, but from trying countless samples of different sizes I feel like standard amount / weight baselines are familiar.

Depth increases this round.  It had significant depth before, but now it's more.  Where it gave a full, rich feel in the mouth before now it's coating those surfaces.  There's aftertaste, and the feel itself also carries over.  It's interesting.  People talk about feel residing in different places in your throat or mouth, which I've also not learned to value.  This contributes a substantial feel across your mouth, not so much centered in the back of the throat, but across the tongue, roof, and front in a unique way.  I'm not sure if that's a good thing, but it is interesting.

What I take to be betel nut is still quite pronounced, and there is warm bark spice, or aged tree bark, and lots of warm mineral.  But I'm missing something, or maybe a couple of things.  An effect related to root spice seems to join that.  Sweetness is a little like dried fruit, but not in a familiar range, and I get around to trying a lot of dried fruit.  It feels relatively rich and full.  

There's a strange effect that happens here--when I'm in Honolulu--that the more calm, focused, and present I am the more I hear birds.  They're always there; we live right beside a giant park.  But I usually don't hear them.  On a walk to swim I relax and become more present, and they sound loud, there are so many.  There are a few saying different things just now.  I'm not claiming that this tea experience is connecting me to the universe, or anything such, since just relaxing for an hour could help with that, but the energy feels good.

#4:  I had my wife taste this tea and she said that she doesn't like it, that it tastes like mold.  That's a nice counterpoint.  It can be interpreted as tasting like those half-circle shape fungus disks on fallen tree trunks tend to smell like.  It probably helps more than I'm noticing that I've tried much murkier aged sheng before, so to me this tastes clean, light, and pleasant, but still nicely complex, with nice depth.  As my friend mentioned lots of old tea, old sheng or other range, tends to taste like pond water (or was that swamp water?).

I think that people open to this general range would like this, but it's the next consideration whether acquiring a preference for range like this is a natural outcome, or if just an inter-subjective group norm, because others in "tea circles" tend to like it.  Across a range of forms aged sheng is still an odd flavor range, from any normal perspective.  I think it makes sense to dismiss the two extremes, and then consider why falling in the middle, towards either side, seems more natural.  "That tastes like mold" is the one extreme; the other is the developed, refined, "advanced" range of aspects and experiential states.  Including positive or negative judgmental descriptions kind of assumes the conclusion.

A small green gecko joins me; I just saw a baby gecko right here a few days ago, which oddly never comes up.  In both Thailand and in Hawaii people love geckos.  Partly because they eat insects, even inside the house, but it may relate to a connection to nature that's different than in mainland perspective.  The birds are your neighbors, and although competing with the squirrels for mangos back in Bangkok can seem off-putting it's their home too, so they should get some.  They eat most of them; they cheat and don't wait until they are ripe.

About preference development, an interesting case came up in discussing Japanese interpretations of Scotch whiskey.  That's a learned preference, that can surely be complex and refined, with a literal strong form of poison as the base of the experience, that almost no one would like without conditioning to like it.  Within the range of whiskey experience much better aged versions probably would seem incredibly smooth, complex, and approachable, but surely to the average person without that acclimation it would just be less bad.  

I think aged sheng is a different kind of thing, and people could appreciate it and like it without conditioning, but maybe not as much as basic Tie Guan Yin or Dian Hong.  I have trouble fully placing what that means.

#5:  I tend to lose focus and interest on writing long before a full infusion cycle.  Sure, teas keep changing, and brew plenty of rounds.  But I only need to describe the general effect of the experience, not every last detail.  I'm already stretching infusion times, out to 20 seconds or so, and this will relate to going longer as rounds continue.

It's not developing, not heading in new directions for aspects, related to flavor, aftertaste, or feel.  It's not really fading fast either, but I suppose intensity is decreasing.

Related to really pinning down a flavors list I've probably missed something along the line of heavy mineral, bark spice, or root spice.  The feel was more interesting, and the overall clean nature (even though per that one secondary input it tastes like mold).  

This tea must have been pretty intense originally to retain this degree of intensity, complexity, and depth across the last 30 years.  Storage conditions must have been a lot less humid than I'm familiar with in Bangkok, since teas can pick up a heavier musty flavor range within a decade and a half or so.  It seems relatively fully fermentation transitioned, which brings to mind whether that not happening in drier storage could still be possible over 30 or so years.  Probably it could.

All in all a very interesting and pleasant experience.  Pushing the next round a little more (#6) it does transition, but in the ways you'd expect, the light wood and spice note develop.  Spice a little like clove is picking up, just not exactly that.  It's as pleasant as it has been, very clean in effect, maybe slightly thinner in feel, but with good depth, and nice mineral range expression.

Meeting a veteran tea enthusiast in a Honolulu meetup

 

this was a tea meetup in Bangkok instead; I didn't take a picture this time

I just tried holding another open tea tasting / meetup where I am now, in Honolulu.  It was a great success, because I met one of those well-regarded "tea people" you can talk to online, but don't tend to meet very often.  He is one of the founders and owners of Teas We Like, which I interpret to be the best Western facing curated aged sheng pu'er vendor, I think mostly selling teas aged in Hong Kong and Taiwan.  But you can check for yourself.

I can't think of another example of a similar vendor, but all the same they are well-regarded, which isn't always how a vendor covering a limited scope goes.  It's odd that aged sheng would seem like a niche.  There are market-style vendors, like Yunnan Sourcing and King Tea Mall, but that's something else, the opposite of a curator (where they select only very good versions, and list far fewer items).  I can think of one poorly regarded aged sheng curator vendor, but of course there's no need to name names.

I'd planned to meet a half dozen people through Reddit contact, offering others a chance to try teas, and he was the only one who made it from that planning.  Two other neighbors joined, so it was enough.  Really two people is enough for a meetup, so in a sense it was more than enough.  

It doesn't matter who that one person joining is, related to a tea resume, but as I see it there are probably less than a dozen main current sources for good teas overall, within the standard Western acceptance.  Maybe that should be narrowed to "for pu'er," but it might also work in general.  Two main ones are White2Tea and Yunnan Sourcing.  As I see it this source is pretty much on that same level, just in a different theme.  It's still related to pu'er, as those are, which I drink, generally as young / unaged versions.  I just met William of Farmerleaf a year or two back, someone else on that short list of best sources.  

It's nice comparing notes with a like-minded enthusiast, and especially interesting because he takes tea more seriously than I do.  Lots of casual tea drinkers would.  I'll describe what we tried, and try to capture how that part works at the same time, what kind of "seriousness" comparison I'm referencing.

I drink pretty basic teas, and keep the brewing and drinking experience pretty basic.  It's mostly that.  One part is that I have very little tea budget to work with, living between Thailand and Honolulu on a Thai budget, even if it's a decent IT professional income over there (in Bangkok).  It's still pretty low by US standards.  We are poor.  And that's fine; things worked out that way, and it works to just adjust around it.  We get to be middle class again when we live back in Bangkok, as we will again in June and July.

That's only part of it though; my overall tea exposure spans a unique range.  I've been able to try a ridiculous amount of amazing tea related to writing a blog about it, and vendors sharing samples (or considerable volume, but usually it's samples).  I might've tried a couple thousand versions of tea.  Whatever the count would be it's beyond counting.  

Some were amazing quality, high demand, wonderful to experience teas, and others were just unusual related to range, the kinds of teas you just don't get to.  Off the top of my head small-batch Russian shou pu'er comes to mind; who tries that?  Or I've tried a lot Liu Bao and Fu zhuan hei cha over the last couple of years.  One tangent related to Henan province teas, exploring hybrid style approaches there, and a couple of other vendors have shared really nice sheng pu'er, what I tend to drink.  Extended tangents related to Indonesia, Georgian, Nepalese, and Indian teas.

Let's get back to that tasting theme, on to the teas, and I can explain how two tea enthusiasts' experiences and perspectives can vary, based on that interesting discussion.

2024 Farmerleaf Na Lang Laos sheng (reviewed here):  when I met William (of Farmerleaf) he passed on most of a cake of this, which could be the best Laos origin sheng I've experienced.  I've tried a good bit of that type from Laos; this might have been something like the 10th version, or maybe it's a good bit more, since I've tried a few sample sets.  It's pretty good quality, and pretty close to standard Yunnan style, as SE Asian versions go.  Not a close match, but in the general range.  I could add more about terroir inputs versus processing and such, but it seems better to leave that out, since it would be speculative and general.

That new tea friend pays more attention to teas than I tend to, and notices body feel as a main input.  A vendor would need to be able to evaluate teas on a different level, where a tea blogger can just pass on an impression a few times a month, and however that works out is fine.  If a reader's take on teas matches my own that impression could be very useful, but it might not be easy to determine that, without trying a few versions that I've already reviewed.  

The body feel / cha qi thing is something else.  People are either sensitive to that or they aren't, although you could probably develop it.  He drinks teas in the morning before eating, which is a good step towards a fuller experience of that factor, that I don't get to.  It affects pretty much everyone's stomachs negatively, just to different degrees.  For aged versions it makes more sense; the effect would be more limited.

Kind of a tangent, but I've experimented with what I can drink while doing extended water fasts, a few days into not eating.  Sheng pu'er is out, even aged sheng.  Shou works well, and aged white tea and mild hei cha is fine, teas like Fu zhuan.

To me these are all teas--in this tasting list--that I've been drinking for awhile, so it's also hard to carefully experience something I've drank a half a cake of, or in this next case multiple cakes / bings.  The teas are what they have been, over the last year or more.

2024 Quang Tom Vietnamese sheng, a more oxidized version (reviewed here):  again this is a tea I've drank over a full cake of (it's over two now?), so it's a daily drinker basic for me.  Most of what I ever drink is in that range, tied to how I approach tea now, and that budget issue.  

His take on it matches what I experienced of it, that it's a comfort tea, pleasant in a sense, it's just not especially complex, and lacks aging potential.  It's a bit novel, related to few teas outside of SE Asia being like that, but it's not so unusual for Vietnamese production.  Flavors are pleasant, warm, with some fruit range, and a bit of edge and bitterness to give it balance, just not much.  

The 2023 version included a lot of honey flavor, and this has some, but not like that.  It's also flawed by a storage input (as I interpret it, related to first trying that one when quite new), not being dried fully during the pressing process, which didn't ruin the tea, but the effect was surely more negative than positive.

the 2023, left, is even more oxidized

In terms of ranking these teas he said that the Laos version seemed best, and this second best, leaving the next aged cake as the least favorite (lowest quality?; it could relate to novelty, beyond that).  That last version, the one I've not described yet, is a low cost factory tea, not really intended to be something other than what it is.

I suppose this tea version contributes less body feel than the first, that it expresses less cha qi.  Since I don't get that I don't know, and I didn't push him to rate it.  

In discussion I compared this to running:  I don't really "get" the runner's high, even though I must experience the same endorphins others tend to.  I feel less pain during that hormone release, and flow better, but I certainly don't feel high.  With teas that contribute a pronounced enough feel I'll notice it, but not with most.  He confirmed that most teas don't provide as significant a degree of that experience as a limited range that do, so regardless of being tuned in I'm not missing all that much, while drinking basic teas.

2007 CNNP 8281 (reviewed here):  it's odd that we tried this tea.  In reviewing what else I had on hand, with him and my neighbor, he said that he was interested in this one, especially after smelling the cake.  It's so basic though; it seems odd that someone into the opposite extreme for quality and novelty would find it interesting.  But I kind of get it; it must relate to appreciation for the entire range (of aged sheng), and maybe in part the novelty of a Bangkok storage input.  And maybe for a point of comparison; it can be interesting for a tea enthusiast to try Lipton once every half dozen years, to experience that other range.

comparison with another CNNP version, the 2007 8891

This tea becomes more approachable and pleasant after a few rounds, but to me it's a really basic version even in comparison with the other basics (but then young SE Asian teas are pretty standard for me now; I had three others from Thailand and Vietnam that we didn't get to).  This tea could really use another half dozen years to finish that transition process, and the part about it improving after 3 or 4 rounds relates to it including a rough edge earlier on.  It's not harsh, and definitely not bitter or astringent, but the warm tones are also rough, something remotely along the lines of cardboard, just not exactly that.

My neighbor, who isn't into such teas, might have interpreted some of the novelty as pleasant, but it seemed it mostly came across as unusual.  My new tea friend seemed open to experiencing it, even though the character couldn't cross past favorable in some ways.  I do like that tea; it's clean and balanced enough, for moving through so much transition in 19 years, in hot and humid Bangkok storage.  It works as a breakfast tea, which is my normal context for experiencing most tea.

Take-aways

It was interesting comparing perspective related to a few teas I've been enjoying.  That neighbor, not so into tea, didn't have much for detailed impression to pass on, but it's nice sharing the experience.  I thought that was going to be the event theme, letting other people new to tea try some different things, but it was pleasant even though it mostly wasn't.

A half dozen people tentatively confirming and then not making it is harder to place.  Two explained why they didn't prior to the event, and three either missed it related to just running late or missing something in a chat message.  It's all good.  

Setting this kind of thing up through Facebook worked out better, when I was more active on that.  A more persistent group discussion thread could cover details, linked to an event notice, which is like a limited calendar function.  Facebook direct messaging works a little better.  I started a group related to holding events in Bangkok, here, and although the algorithm now shows almost no one the posts from there at one point it was more functional.  Facebook feeds are mostly promoted content now, or ads; it's why I'm far less active there.

I've ran across input and compared notes with people more conventionally into tea than I am before.  It's hard to know how to express that, since it's a take, and a developed approach, that only applies to a subset of people who are into tea.  I'm not even talking about aesthetics (related to surroundings, wearing a robe, tea pets, or whatever else), ceremonial brewing approach, leaning into using the complete or expanded set of gear, and all the rest, I mean just related to appreciating tea.  There are levels to it.  

I've never portrayed myself as "getting it right," or even taking on the deeper level of just noticing the finer tea aspects, and my own reactions to the teas.  I've explored a lot, and shared a lot about how that went.  During tastings I can spend a couple of hours with a couple of teas, so I do vary the degree of focus, depending on the context.

It was interesting hearing a bit about how following a related but different path goes.  Most people couldn't communicate that clearly, but he could.  Within the noisy environment of a half dozen people meeting for the first time that wouldn't have come across, so the limited attendance was actually ideal, in a sense.  I've recently read one of those traditional quotes from an ancient Chinese tea master to this effect, about how 3 or 4 people sharing tea is ideal, and with 6 or 7 it's complete chaos.  He put it better than I could, even with translation loss of clarity factored in.  

I suppose it all depends on the desired outcome, and how closely people are aligned going in.  And the event theme; someone presenting teas and ideas about the experience would still work well in a group, even for a dozen people, but I've always favored letting the social dynamic in a group gathering share a lot of the focus.  

That's all the easier with two people, even though that might seem counter-intuitive, that the social function actually works better the smaller the group.  Quieter people tend to say very little in a larger group, even with 5 or 6 people, so you end up needing to adjust discussion themes or flow a little to get everyone to engage, and share their own experience.