Rishi Wawee Thai sheng (2022) and Phousan Laos sheng (2021)

Thai version right, in all photos (this is the third round)

 

I've been meaning to try Rishi sheng versions from South East Asia for awhile, and finally got around to ordering two.  Whether or not someone calls them pu'er doesn't matter to me; that are that type, regardless of a Chinese regional designation for that name.  Per my understanding the type was produced in lots of places long before Chinese people adopted that village name for it.  They are these:

Doi Wawee Sheng Pu'er Vintage Spring 2022 ($45 for a 200 gram cake)

The Doi Wawee Pu’er cakes we source are part of the incredible history of tea in Thailand. Throughout northern Thailand there are many old, abandoned tea plantations that have been left to grow wild from centuries past. Known locally by the Thais as “Assam tea,” these trees are part of an ancient tea journey that traces its roots back to the 11th and 12th Centuries...

This 2022 Doi Wawee sheng Pu’er has a wonderful balance of density, power and elegance. The floral and aromatic wood notes are present over the course of the several infusions. For being such a young cake the tea is very smooth and lasting in sweetness. The powerful energy and awakening vibes of Doi Wawee’s ancient tea is incredible.

The history of tea in lots of places has been lost, but the earlier existence of the plants can be confirmed, especially since some can live a long time, so it's a living history.  I don't remember what I've heard about time-frames, but the history of Thailand importing ceramics production from China goes back a long time, for centuries, so tea was probably around too.

Laos Sheng Pu’er Tea Cake Vintage 2021 ($48 for a 250 gram cake)

Our 2021 round cake pressing of the first picked, early spring tea is lively and energetic with luscious wildflower honey, ripe fruit and piney aromas. The Xiengkhoung region of Laos is demonstrating its consistent performance as one of our favorite origins for Pu'er tea. The tea has a long-lasting impact on the palate with a mouthwatering sweetness and deeply refreshing quality. The delicate floral aromas give way to an emerging pungency, stimulating strength and minerality that builds up in the subsequent brews. The tea is pressed a bit hard, so it comes out slowly and elegantly over the course of many infusions...

It is pressed really hard; that will probably slow aging transition.  They mention positive cha qi (feel) in that description too, but I tend to not notice that, unless it's very pronounced.  They mention a little more on local growing areas in the website, about elevation, and include harvest timing; the whole story of both is on the site pages.

South East Asian sheng has been my overall favorite type for a long time.  Thai versions can be very nice, distinctive and pleasant.  Laos versions tend to be less consistent, but in the best cases they're very positive too.  Vietnamese sheng seems to often stray further from Yunnan production style, to include some extra oxidation, or maybe the kill-green step is sometimes different, leading to slightly different results.  I've had exceptional versions from Myanmar, and they might be a little more consistent in general, and as true to type related to Yunnan versions as any of the others.

Review:

Wawee #1:  pretty nice.  A bit of pine comes across early on, and some sort of stone fruit note, close enough to plum, but that interpretation could vary, and it will probably evolve.  It's clean, intense, and balanced, and not at all light in relation to this being the first round.  Bitterness is significant, but also moderate, which is what I would have expected.  

Maybe flavor tones have deepened and warmed since production, since this is a 2022, but I can only guess.  I've tried a reasonable amount of other Thai sheng and this compares well, and is similar in character.  But then it's too early for that level of judgment.

Phousan Laos:  an intense more vegetal note hits right away; I'll need to brew this fast to optimize results around that.  It's in between green wood and mushroom, but warmed and softened a bit, so maybe that's partly cured wood and dried mushroom.  It's missing the fruit range in the other tea.  

One could interpret some of the vegetal range as pine but it seems to represent wood more.  This might evolve towards incense spice, if the less pleasant vegetal range diminishes, based on what it tastes like now.  At least at this level it doesn't really compare favorably to the Thai version at all.  It lacks the same sweetness and cleanness, with flavors that aren't nearly as positive.  You can't really judge sheng by the first round though; they will often develop a bit between the first and third infusion, and continue changing after that.

Wawee #2:  bitterness and vegetal range picked up a lot, which is to be expected.  

I overdo it with proportion, as a matter of habit, generally always using about 8 grams per 100 ml gaiwan.  Since that's my norm I tend to just go with it.  You can use faster infusions and get similar results related to using a more conventional proportion, but they might be more optimum using 5, so you can adjust timing better.  

I was just talking about that with that Teas We Like founder I just met at the last meetup (described in the last post), and I can't really justify the practice of using a high proportion as somehow better.  It's just how my tea brewing evolved.  It's a good way to drink a dozen rounds of tea on the intense side, and I'm drinking for beverage experience more often than tasting, even though I do both, and approach for the two mixed.  If intensity is too high for a round, which can happen, you can just flash infuse the next round and mix them, although I don't do that during review tasting sessions.

The depth is nice.  Astringency / feel filled in, and it's substantial, and bitterness falls into a different balance.  The sweetness and complex flavor range makes it pleasant.  Some aftertaste expression carries over; it's definitely not thin, or limited in any way.  The fruit note is especially pleasant.  Pine isn't really prominent; probably that's something you would either notice in that first infusion or else not get.  I can't say the more vegetal range tastes like wood, but it's hard to place it otherwise.  I would guess this will evolve towards spice some, which is also a best case for the Laos version.

Phousan:  wood is still the dominant flavor.  At least the mushroom edge to that has evolved away already.  There is a more positive spice range entering in; this is improving fast.  That main wood flavor is a well-cured hardwood, with a touch of greener wood range beyond that.  The vegetal scope isn't all that green, so the spice seems to tie in with that.  It could be interpreted as medicinal herb, or even along the line of some type of basil (maybe tulsi / holy basil).  It's starting to work better; I think the third infusion will determine how the rest will go.

I didn't include it in the tasting theme post but we also discussed the use of comparison tasting, that tea vendor / expert and I.  He said that it's a good tool for a beginner to use to notice differences that would be harder to place otherwise, which would help with sorting out tea evaluation in general.  Of course that's part of what I'm doing, and what I started using it for.  It has evolved to where I'm mostly trying two or more teas, but usually two, to get to more versions with less tasting and writing time.  I might do 80 or 90 reviews in a year, and write about well over 100 teas, maybe 150, so I would be writing even more posts to try them one at a time.  I guess it's down to 70-some posts in total and maybe 60 reviews now, but it works out the same.

It may not seem it but writing one detailed review a week is a lot.  It takes more than an hour to write the notes, or maybe two, and another hour to edit photos and text, and add reference citation.  It's not the time that's a concern though, it's the focus required.  You have to use the time that you are most dialed in, rested, and relaxed, or it won't work.

Wawee #3:  overall balance is improving, the way those aspects already described come together.  This isn't really a fair comparison because Thai sheng is among my personal favorites, with lots of what I've tried from the Wawee area.  I've tried a good bit of Laos sheng too, and some was great, but only the Farmerleaf version I mentioned in the last meetup theme post stands out as on the same level as other better versions from elsewhere.  That's in recent memory; I was drinking a good bit of Laos sheng 5 to 10 years ago, and a couple of versions back then were probably pretty exceptional, but more weren't.

I should get around to describing Thai and Laos sheng in relation to Yunnan versions, in terms of style (typical style--both vary a lot), typical quality level, and terroir input.  It's just so much to get to, and every point would involve a troublesome spiral in describing exceptions and normal range of variation.  Maybe I won't.

Phousan:  clearly the best this has been, right on schedule.  Green and cured wood is giving way to more spice range.  It's not just a touch of basil now, something along the line of celery seed is prominent.  I've been using dill seed from our garden as a food spice; it's not too far from that, but probably still closer to celery.  It's more pleasant than this description makes it sound, like some sort of basil and seed spice tisane, with a bit of wood.  Let's free-form associate what makes it more positive, as a flavor list description.

The wood tone I've been describing moving into incense spice range is part of it.  Sandalwood, maybe?  I really should revisit that incense scent theme again somehow.  I have no idea how agar wood would vary, and I've even lost track of what patchouli smells like, which would be a slap in the face for one former Deadhead roommate, and lifetime best friend, who always smelled like that.  Sweetness also picks up; that helps the flavors tie together.  Limited bitterness, which I tend to not mention much, if it's a normal low-background input, probably also helps in this case.  Feel is fine; it has fullness and structure, it just doesn't stand out, so again I see it as normal background context.  I'll revisit this next round, as it continues to evolve.

Wawee #4:  this is where I might start hitting a wall for drinking a lot of tea, and the next round is usually where I tap out.  If I'd been more practical and used 5 gram proportion I could brew these even lighter, and get to a 6th (a dozen in total).  I might mention that I'm re-warming water to keep this brewing using very close to boiling point temperature, not dropped much between that boil and the next infusion, in this case under a minute of cooling.

There's a pleasant sappy feel to this that works well with the rest.  It connects with a positive aftertaste expression.  Flavors have evolved, and I've not kept up with describing that.  I interpret a main pleasant input as fruit, but others might not, and that could even sound wrong to some.  There's a good bit of range, so that it could work best to describe general range scope and then individual flavor inputs.  Stone fruit is on the list, but vegetal range is more pronounced.  Or that really overlaps or mixes with a spice theme, again probably mild incense spice, which more often occurs in a very different overall flavor context.  Bitterness stands out, of course.  Sweetness might include a bit of toffee edge, but that's not easy to pick up, given the stronger vegetal and spice range.  Interpreting more of it as green wood could also work.

Phousan:  spice still stands out, incense spice (mostly), along with seed spice and a touch of basil.  Those warm tones and sweetness are pleasant.  Mushroom and wood have generally dropped out, although someone could still interpret the one part as cured wood, but I see it as having evolved more to incense spice range.

It's hard to guess about how these have evolved over 4 to 5 years, but since I've drank a lot of comparable sheng I could attempt that.  Earlier on they would've been brighter in tone, and even more intense.  Probably some of the early floral range has evolved to what I'm describing now.  It's odd getting to round 4 and never mentioning a floral aspect, but that is a natural transition pattern.  The teas tend to be more approachable in terms of bitterness and astringency evolving; these aren't challenging.  Depth increases, which is kind of an emergent property, not closely tied to just one or more main aspects.

Whether or not they're better--now versus when newer--would depend on preference.  That's if someone is averse to that early bitterness and astringency, or they see it as positive, when coupled with sweetness and bright floral range.  These warm wood and spice tones would have resembled green wood, or other vegetal scope, often sort of like plant stem, and some could find that challenging.  I might prefer a stronger astringency and vegetal edge trade-off when younger, since it couples with freshness and more floral range, typically.

I really don't care for the grassiness in some green teas, but sheng tends to be vegetal in a different way, more along the line of either green wood or edgier fresh herbs, like some other types of greens.  Warmer medicinal spice notes evolve more later, after aging.  Those are often along the line of ginseng, and these will continue in that direction, but change-over will take time.  I don't think these were stored in overly wet / humid and warm conditions, but they're not as preserved as dry storage causes either.  In the middle is good for storage conditions input, letting them evolve kind of slowly, but to keep changing.

Wawee and Phousan #5:  not so different than last round, so this might be a good place to keep this short, and add more final thoughts on a next round.  The Laos version is picking up more sweetness and a touch of fruit, maybe along the line of dried mango; that will probably evolve to be more noticeable, given the transition direction.

Wawee #6:  I'm still using relatively fast infusion times, 10 seconds or so, and that finally relates to intensity dropping.  The tea isn't fading already, but the early infusion strength is reduced.  This is probably an easier intensity level to evaluate, but that kind of thing does shift which aspects you experience.

Everything is integrating more, so it's harder to break it all into a flavor list.  It's the same range as before, but less distinct.  There isn't enough shift in relative balance of aspects to make it worth unpacking that.  

One thing I haven't mentioned:  these leaves vary in color.  That's surely related to them being heated a bit much in some rounds of kill-green (sha qing) processing.  It's complicated how that might work out, or probably did.  A touch of extra roast can add a positive flavor input, according to discussion of this very point by William of Farmerleaf (covered in this post on "oolong pu'er,").  It might add complexity, using a slight range of processed material.  Then it's harder to say how that would work out related to aging potential or tea character changing across rounds of infusion, since--per my understanding--oxidation and roast input both trade out flavor change but slightly limit tea's durability, how many positive rounds it will brew.

Phousan:  the best this has been; it kept evolving positively over the rounds.  It's interesting how the Thai version was so much more positive early on, and now this seems more distinctive, and complex in a different way.  Fruit even evolves, which I guess we can call dried mango, even though it could be closer to dried longan, or something else.  This tea is better than the Thai version at this stage; so odd.  The earlier spice notes are still present, transformed in how they come across, and now supporting tones instead.  Apparent sweetness seems higher, maybe related to how we naturally associate some flavor range as sweet, more than tied to how some compounds cause that effect.

For really preferring dried fruit themes in sheng this is interesting, seeing how other range can fulfill a different but related function, even though this finally does express some fruit as well.  It's interesting how this evolved to be cleaner, fuller, and better balanced, while the other version became less distinct.  I suppose that might mean more to someone else.  I'll brew both on the stronger side, giving them over 20 seconds to infuse, and pass on final thoughts on that.  Seven rounds of two versions is an awful lot of tea; it will be plenty.  I drank water and ate some nuts prior to this round, and took time with this process, which helps with extending it.

Wawee #7:  this heavier infusion strength works well with the tea character at this point.  That sappy feel returns, and a toffee note stands out again.  Incense spice range, alternatively interpreted as cured hardwood, picks back up.  In between the light last round and this more intense form would still be fine, probably a more natural optimum.

Phousan:  ordinarily I wouldn't like a tea with this aspect set description this much (incense spice, seed spice, basil, with a bit of dried fruit).  It all balances well, supported by a positive feel, a nice level of bitterness, and good aftertaste expression.  I suppose it's even possible that this has better aging potential than the Thai tea, even though that aspect set is more familiar to me, and more a match to my evolved preference.  

If I bought just one of these of course it would be the Wawee tea, related in part to my bias for Thai sheng.

Conclusions / other consideration range:

It's hard to evaluate long term aging potential.  Would be these be great in another 10 to 15 years?  As a young sheng drinker I tend to see the transition optimum within the first 3 to 5 years as a good place to drink the teas, if that works well.  Some are best within the first 6 months, and others better 2 or 3 years, only changed some.  Often it's early challenging nature that indicates a related tea's best form will occur 2 or 3 decades later.

I've tried more old Thai sheng that is kind of ok but not great in the 15 to 20 year old range, and probably only a couple that were older (but I do lose track).  These may be like that, destined to still be fine later on, but not exceptional.  Someone would really have to hold onto one to know.

What about value?  This Thai tea is $45 for 200 grams, with the Laos version nearly $48 for 250, so they might be around $80 cakes at a 357 gram standard size.  That's not bad, for what they are, sort of a Western industry norm.  If anything lots of vendors might place the same range at just over $100, especially for valuing limited aging input as a positive, and a cost on the vendor's side.  Of course buying tea within Thailand or Laos you might do better, for equivalent teas.  I've seen vendors play up an old plant source theme and pass off similar teas for a lot more, but that's normal, that's just how pu'er sales often go.

So as I interpret it these are good value, but also just normal in relation to Yunnan range, pretty much at the standard level.  If you interpret the origin novelty as positive, and value the limited aging input then value is great.  There's not a lot available in this price range, to be better or worse.  If you think SE Asian sheng should be priced lower than standard Yunnan range, as definitely occurred over the last decade, then value might not be good.

Over and over again we see gradually increasing product quality, distinctiveness, and desirability pairing with rising product costs.  It would be hard to find examples this good 10 years ago, or maybe even 5, so it's not comparing apples to apples to reference past options.  The same happens with Viet Sun's Vietnamese sheng; their pricing is much higher than it was just a few years ago, but the teas are better.  Yunnan Sourcing's Impression series started out as blends competing with Dayi 7542, at that cost level too, $30-some to $40 per full sized cake, and now they're mostly all in the general $100 range, but again it's better tea.  The days of buying a full sized $40 cake are over, unless you switch back to factory teas, which are more comparable to the older range from South East Asia.  The form is different; factory teas were often mass-produced blends, but the flaws in older off-area teas made the quality level comparable.

People who drank sheng 10 to 15 years ago are familiar with another earlier form that fills in how things worked then, the white paper wrapped higher quality range, generally custom pressings.  Those would often cost up towards $1 a gram, and came with descriptions that would be familiar today, related to narrow origin sources, and probably even old plant input (gushu).  That probably less often related to wild origin material.  We've done well to experience some of that form transitioning to quite good $100 to $140 standard cake offerings, as that became a more mainstream form, now selling for much less.  Maybe not if it's still gushu, but those claims are hard to evaluate now, as then.  This runs too long to dwell on that tangent, but I do associate a range of character as relating to old plant input, to a mineral base effect being different, with greater general depth, perhaps associating with more aging potential.

the Wawee tea plants (credit Rishi site)

All in all these were pretty good.  The former Wawee material versions I've tried set a pretty high bar to match, and the Thai version was in line with that.  It was interesting how the Laos tea evolved through rounds better, after a less favorable start.  Both are pretty good examples of SE Asian sheng range, and both are a pretty good value, for what they are, and where other options stand.

Where else can you get South East Asian sheng, that are as good as these?  Tea Side sells Thai versions, but their pricing is high, so although quality is good value often isn't.  Chawang Shop sometimes sells versions, but I don't think the quality of any stood out, maybe not quite on these tea's level, even though these are just good, but not necessarily great.  That one Farmerleaf Laos tea is better, but it's priced at $140, for a 357 gram cake, costing a lot more.  

Rishi holds up as a good source option.

Meeting a veteran tea enthusiast in a Honolulu meetup

 

this was a tea meetup in Bangkok instead; I didn't take a picture this time

I just tried holding another open tea tasting / meetup where I am now, in Honolulu.  It was a great success, because I met one of those well-regarded "tea people" you can talk to online, but don't tend to meet very often.  He is one of the founders and owners of Teas We Like, which I interpret to be the best Western facing curated aged sheng pu'er vendor, I think mostly selling teas aged in Hong Kong and Taiwan.  But you can check for yourself.

I can't think of another example of a similar vendor, but all the same they are well-regarded, which isn't always how a vendor covering a limited scope goes.  It's odd that aged sheng would seem like a niche.  There are market-style vendors, like Yunnan Sourcing and King Tea Mall, but that's something else, the opposite of a curator (where they select only very good versions, and list far fewer items).  I can think of one poorly regarded aged sheng curator vendor, but of course there's no need to name names.

I'd planned to meet a half dozen people through Reddit contact, offering others a chance to try teas, and he was the only one who made it from that planning.  Two other neighbors joined, so it was enough.  Really two people is enough for a meetup, so in a sense it was more than enough.  

It doesn't matter who that one person joining is, related to a tea resume, but as I see it there are probably less than a dozen main current sources for good teas overall, within the standard Western acceptance.  Maybe that should be narrowed to "for pu'er," but it might also work in general.  Two main ones are White2Tea and Yunnan Sourcing.  As I see it this source is pretty much on that same level, just in a different theme.  It's still related to pu'er, as those are, which I drink, generally as young / unaged versions.  I just met William of Farmerleaf a year or two back, someone else on that short list of best sources.  

It's nice comparing notes with a like-minded enthusiast, and especially interesting because he takes tea more seriously than I do.  Lots of casual tea drinkers would.  I'll describe what we tried, and try to capture how that part works at the same time, what kind of "seriousness" comparison I'm referencing.

I drink pretty basic teas, and keep the brewing and drinking experience pretty basic.  It's mostly that.  One part is that I have very little tea budget to work with, living between Thailand and Honolulu on a Thai budget, even if it's a decent IT professional income over there (in Bangkok).  It's still pretty low by US standards.  We are poor.  And that's fine; things worked out that way, and it works to just adjust around it.  We get to be middle class again when we live back in Bangkok, as we will again in June and July.

That's only part of it though; my overall tea exposure spans a unique range.  I've been able to try a ridiculous amount of amazing tea related to writing a blog about it, and vendors sharing samples (or considerable volume, but usually it's samples).  I might've tried a couple thousand versions of tea.  Whatever the count would be it's beyond counting.  

Some were amazing quality, high demand, wonderful to experience teas, and others were just unusual related to range, the kinds of teas you just don't get to.  Off the top of my head small-batch Russian shou pu'er comes to mind; who tries that?  Or I've tried a lot Liu Bao and Fu zhuan hei cha over the last couple of years.  One tangent related to Henan province teas, exploring hybrid style approaches there, and a couple of other vendors have shared really nice sheng pu'er, what I tend to drink.  Extended tangents related to Indonesia, Georgian, Nepalese, and Indian teas.

Let's get back to that tasting theme, on to the teas, and I can explain how two tea enthusiasts' experiences and perspectives can vary, based on that interesting discussion.

2024 Farmerleaf Na Lang Laos sheng (reviewed here):  when I met William (of Farmerleaf) he passed on most of a cake of this, which could be the best Laos origin sheng I've experienced.  I've tried a good bit of that type from Laos; this might have been something like the 10th version, or maybe it's a good bit more, since I've tried a few sample sets.  It's pretty good quality, and pretty close to standard Yunnan style, as SE Asian versions go.  Not a close match, but in the general range.  I could add more about terroir inputs versus processing and such, but it seems better to leave that out, since it would be speculative and general.

That new tea friend pays more attention to teas than I tend to, and notices body feel as a main input.  A vendor would need to be able to evaluate teas on a different level, where a tea blogger can just pass on an impression a few times a month, and however that works out is fine.  If a reader's take on teas matches my own that impression could be very useful, but it might not be easy to determine that, without trying a few versions that I've already reviewed.  

The body feel / cha qi thing is something else.  People are either sensitive to that or they aren't, although you could probably develop it.  He drinks teas in the morning before eating, which is a good step towards a fuller experience of that factor, that I don't get to.  It affects pretty much everyone's stomachs negatively, just to different degrees.  For aged versions it makes more sense; the effect would be more limited.

Kind of a tangent, but I've experimented with what I can drink while doing extended water fasts, a few days into not eating.  Sheng pu'er is out, even aged sheng.  Shou works well, and aged white tea and mild hei cha is fine, teas like Fu zhuan.

To me these are all teas--in this tasting list--that I've been drinking for awhile, so it's also hard to carefully experience something I've drank a half a cake of, or in this next case multiple cakes / bings.  The teas are what they have been, over the last year or more.

2024 Quang Tom Vietnamese sheng, a more oxidized version (reviewed here):  again this is a tea I've drank over a full cake of (it's over two now?), so it's a daily drinker basic for me.  Most of what I ever drink is in that range, tied to how I approach tea now, and that budget issue.  

His take on it matches what I experienced of it, that it's a comfort tea, pleasant in a sense, it's just not especially complex, and lacks aging potential.  It's a bit novel, related to few teas outside of SE Asia being like that, but it's not so unusual for Vietnamese production.  Flavors are pleasant, warm, with some fruit range, and a bit of edge and bitterness to give it balance, just not much.  

The 2023 version included a lot of honey flavor, and this has some, but not like that.  It's also flawed by a storage input (as I interpret it, related to first trying that one when quite new), not being dried fully during the pressing process, which didn't ruin the tea, but the effect was surely more negative than positive.

the 2023, left, is even more oxidized

In terms of ranking these teas he said that the Laos version seemed best, and this second best, leaving the next aged cake as the least favorite (lowest quality?; it could relate to novelty, beyond that).  That last version, the one I've not described yet, is a low cost factory tea, not really intended to be something other than what it is.

I suppose this tea version contributes less body feel than the first, that it expresses less cha qi.  Since I don't get that I don't know, and I didn't push him to rate it.  

In discussion I compared this to running:  I don't really "get" the runner's high, even though I must experience the same endorphins others tend to.  I feel less pain during that hormone release, and flow better, but I certainly don't feel high.  With teas that contribute a pronounced enough feel I'll notice it, but not with most.  He confirmed that most teas don't provide as significant a degree of that experience as a limited range that do, so regardless of being tuned in I'm not missing all that much, while drinking basic teas.

2007 CNNP 8281 (reviewed here):  it's odd that we tried this tea.  In reviewing what else I had on hand, with him and my neighbor, he said that he was interested in this one, especially after smelling the cake.  It's so basic though; it seems odd that someone into the opposite extreme for quality and novelty would find it interesting.  But I kind of get it; it must relate to appreciation for the entire range (of aged sheng), and maybe in part the novelty of a Bangkok storage input.  And maybe for a point of comparison; it can be interesting for a tea enthusiast to try Lipton once every half dozen years, to experience that other range.

comparison with another CNNP version, the 2007 8891

This tea becomes more approachable and pleasant after a few rounds, but to me it's a really basic version even in comparison with the other basics (but then young SE Asian teas are pretty standard for me now; I had three others from Thailand and Vietnam that we didn't get to).  This tea could really use another half dozen years to finish that transition process, and the part about it improving after 3 or 4 rounds relates to it including a rough edge earlier on.  It's not harsh, and definitely not bitter or astringent, but the warm tones are also rough, something remotely along the lines of cardboard, just not exactly that.

My neighbor, who isn't into such teas, might have interpreted some of the novelty as pleasant, but it seemed it mostly came across as unusual.  My new tea friend seemed open to experiencing it, even though the character couldn't cross past favorable in some ways.  I do like that tea; it's clean and balanced enough, for moving through so much transition in 19 years, in hot and humid Bangkok storage.  It works as a breakfast tea, which is my normal context for experiencing most tea.

Take-aways

It was interesting comparing perspective related to a few teas I've been enjoying.  That neighbor, not so into tea, didn't have much for detailed impression to pass on, but it's nice sharing the experience.  I thought that was going to be the event theme, letting other people new to tea try some different things, but it was pleasant even though it mostly wasn't.

A half dozen people tentatively confirming and then not making it is harder to place.  Two explained why they didn't prior to the event, and three either missed it related to just running late or missing something in a chat message.  It's all good.  

Setting this kind of thing up through Facebook worked out better, when I was more active on that.  A more persistent group discussion thread could cover details, linked to an event notice, which is like a limited calendar function.  Facebook direct messaging works a little better.  I started a group related to holding events in Bangkok, here, and although the algorithm now shows almost no one the posts from there at one point it was more functional.  Facebook feeds are mostly promoted content now, or ads; it's why I'm far less active there.

I've ran across input and compared notes with people more conventionally into tea than I am before.  It's hard to know how to express that, since it's a take, and a developed approach, that only applies to a subset of people who are into tea.  I'm not even talking about aesthetics (related to surroundings, wearing a robe, tea pets, or whatever else), ceremonial brewing approach, leaning into using the complete or expanded set of gear, and all the rest, I mean just related to appreciating tea.  There are levels to it.  

I've never portrayed myself as "getting it right," or even taking on the deeper level of just noticing the finer tea aspects, and my own reactions to the teas.  I've explored a lot, and shared a lot about how that went.  During tastings I can spend a couple of hours with a couple of teas, so I do vary the degree of focus, depending on the context.

It was interesting hearing a bit about how following a related but different path goes.  Most people couldn't communicate that clearly, but he could.  Within the noisy environment of a half dozen people meeting for the first time that wouldn't have come across, so the limited attendance was actually ideal, in a sense.  I've recently read one of those traditional quotes from an ancient Chinese tea master to this effect, about how 3 or 4 people sharing tea is ideal, and with 6 or 7 it's complete chaos.  He put it better than I could, even with translation loss of clarity factored in.  

I suppose it all depends on the desired outcome, and how closely people are aligned going in.  And the event theme; someone presenting teas and ideas about the experience would still work well in a group, even for a dozen people, but I've always favored letting the social dynamic in a group gathering share a lot of the focus.  

That's all the easier with two people, even though that might seem counter-intuitive, that the social function actually works better the smaller the group.  Quieter people tend to say very little in a larger group, even with 5 or 6 people, so you end up needing to adjust discussion themes or flow a little to get everyone to engage, and share their own experience.

Rainy times in Honolulu

 

I usually sort out some sub-theme as a pretense for writing when I move back to Hawaii (living between Bangkok and Honolulu), but I haven't this time.  I've been "here" for a month, and will go back in 6 weeks.

Rain has been the main running theme, beyond spending time with my kids always being what means the most to me.  Here they are:

The little one is going through an emotional time, fueled by hormone changes, but she was just messing around in that picture.  Here they are in a hike photo, along with two others:

the same shot as in the blog margin photo

Back in 2006 or 2007, when I was in grad school here, it rained one rainy season for 40 days, and it has been like that again, the rainiest period since then.  It has caused flooding, road damage, power outages, and brown water advisories that increase risk of swimming, from run-off outlet flow being unclean.  I don't remember us--our family--experiencing much for power outages, ever, anywhere, so it was actually kind of cool going a few hours without power, to freak out and use candles and such.

I didn't hear that there were any fatalities related to this flooding, although I guess people die in car accidents all of the time, so something a bit indirect like that could have cost people their lives, or even the limited flooding.  A potential dam failure in the north could have caused extreme damage, lots of death and destruction, but luckily it didn't.  Family friends in the east lost electrical power for over a day; that would be rougher than spending an hour playing Uno.

Maybe the main impact is that lots of people came for vacation and spent a week getting rained on, although the rainiest three weeks all had a break of a day of clearer weather in the middle.  It's not nothing, that they spent thousands to get here and couldn't do most of what they had hoped to do.  

But it's easy for locals to go past not caring much about tourists on to being resentful of them.  Why?  Because they can be disruptive, some few of them, drunk and disorderly, or guilty of littering.  They might stand on the coral (which kills it), or endanger themselves.  That I don't see as so annoying, since someone getting sucked into a blowhole, or needing to be rescued on a hike, is just par for the course in ocean resort areas.

It might be that the poorer half of all locals might struggle to cover basics, like eating, while tourists show up and are fine with paying $25 for a burger, or $10 for a coffee or juice.  It doesn't affect locals that much, since those prices were never going to be reasonable locally anyway, even outside the resort areas, but it highlights the have / have not divide, and it's easy to see outgroups negatively.

I joined the Red Cross, in part related to the disaster theme coming up, and more related to a friend mentioning doing the same.  Two or three weeks in I'm not placed in a position / support role yet, and I probably won't do much with that in the next 6 weeks.  It's not really set up for someone to live in an area for 2 1/2 months and then join in; it has a more corporate feel to it, if that makes sense.  So next I might look into supporting the central corporate management, since it relates to the work I do (with ISO systems, process, disaster planning, etc.), but apparently it's competitive just to try to volunteer, so who knows.

Usually I'm going on about local culture in these posts, about homelessness issues, or how my kids relate to local schooling.  I might not have said much about my daughter switching schools, and middle school seeming to be a much rougher place.  Lots of that wouldn't be area-specific; social themes change at different ages.  Her school is "urban," but it's not as if she's in a bad part of Chicago or LA.  Walking around that part of the city in the evening might be pushing it, but it would still be safe enough for me, just not for a younger girl.

Keo wraps up high school in a month or so; that went quick.  We've been back and forth for 4 years.  The plan was to change over employment, and after two years or so of intensive job search I gave up on that.

I've covered how this is an ethical concern before; if people move to Hawaii and work remotely that puts pressure on local housing, raising costs for everyone.  It's slightly less of a concern if you live somewhere that outsiders should be, more specifically in Waikiki.  But if we could've bought a million dollar house that could have caused an incremental demand shift, and to some extent these present conditions still do.

It reminds me of another ethical concern I've changed stances on in the past, eating a meat based diet.  Billions of animals must live in captivity now to support people's carnivorous diets, and for 17 years I didn't participate in that, beyond not being completely vegan (a little milk and eggs goes a long way towards resolving protein intake issues).  It's not a problem any one person causes, in any significant way, but altogether it leads to factory farming.  If you've ever visited such a place, a factory farm, it means more to you.  Again there isn't an easy fix, beyond the extreme solution of being vegan.  There may well be environmental trade-offs related to that too, since it's not easy to supplement your diet to be effective and complete, and production of some of substances people add to do so may cause their own impact.

Related to the other local culture themes, culture-shock, transitions in conditions locally, experiencing truly local culture, and so on, there is no news.  Trump's impact on the economy, culture, and foreign impressions of Americans also hasn't come up a lot.  We met with Canadian friends a month ago, and they said that they would no longer buy US made goods, and you really can't blame them.  It might be hard to keep track of which outrageous theme triggered that.  Trump saying that he wanted to annex Canada?  Those tariffs, or two unjustified wars?  The US is a mess.

Cue the conservative 40%, his followers, responding "don't live here then."  It's a mess whether any one person or family chooses to stick around or not, so that's about as relevant as comparing things to historical time period standards of living.  It is a little strange how entire nations have PR images, related to one part of what fell apart for the US.  Russia has been looking terrible for years now, right?  China seems more positive for not invading any of their neighbors, recently.  The bar goes lower.

The local weed booth outlet recently moved from across the alley to down at the end of the alley, making for a prompt to consider what greater acceptance of that means.  I smoked weed, when I was younger, but it's been awhile, a couple of decades.  It doesn't seem any more impactful than alcohol.  I suspect that within a couple more years the theme of long term side effects and problems will be more common, and plenty of people have already experienced that.  

Just yesterday I saw a guy with a 2 or 3 year old child buying weed there, and it didn't seem right.  Would it have seemed different if he had put a 12-pack in a cart in a grocery store?  It might have.  So that's strange, that I'm still biased myself, in spite of that background.

Some of that earlier have / have not theme enters in.  We aren't budgeted for buying those $8-10 coffees or juices, someone spending however much to be on drugs could seem wasteful, like a form of excess.  But of course that's their budget, so the critical judgment isn't well grounded.  If someone wants to spend $100 to breathe more concentrated oxygen that's on them.  We have to be careful of externalizing our own image or limitations concerns.

Having kids changes things.  People smoke weed in our street all of the time, so about one time in 10 or so venturing out you might smell it, just walking through, or maybe even a little more.  People drinking beer in our alley (soi) back in Thailand drives my wife crazy, for a similar reason.  A public street isn't the place for that kind of thing, per one normal take.  In the US eventually there would be repercussions if someone kept drinking beer in public, but with the weed it looks like smoking a cigarette, and it's completely normalized now.  Keoni mentioned there is a normal place for kids to smoke weed at school.  Strange.

Hawaii is great; I should be mentioning that.  I love the feel, the people, and outdoor experience options.  It's a great environment for our kids, even with people smoking weed, and homeless people living on most blocks.  It's culturally diverse, and people really value contact with nature, in their own ways.  Kalani just went ice skating with friends yesterday, without a lot of close parent supervision, and Oahu is safe enough that's still not a high risk.  It's shifting, and in a few more years it might seem so.  But it's nice being here for the time period that it doesn't seem outrageous for your medium age kids to be unguarded, yet.

Being rained on wasn't so bad; that's how life in the tropics goes sometimes.  Not as often as you might expect; there has probably been no corresponding rainy period like this in 19 years.  In Bangkok the monsoon season can get a little rough for a week or two, at times, but there is almost never a completely rainy month over there.  There was, about 17 or 18 years ago, in October, when it's not supposed to rain like that, and they experienced terrible flooding.  It was all pretty touch and go in the 2025 rainy season, close to being too much.  

These climate change related variations of what is normal will be even more awful in the next few years, probably.  But this last one over the last month here hasn't been so bad, unless it ruined your vacation, or destroyed your home, and then maybe it was.

More images of what has gone on this past month:

the Ala Wai, where I run; this is the outflow channel that gets over-filled during rains

view on a really early morning run from Diamondhead

hiking up Koko head, another old volcano

the view in another direction

you end up seeing Diamondhead from all over the bottom of the island

Keo lets his hair grow out

It's not the upload sound quality; you couldn't hear what she was saying.

she is also doing well