Visiting a Bangkok Chinatown tea shop (K. Mui Kee Tea)

 

I've not been exploring Bangkok Chinatown tea shops much, for a long time.  One set of shop owners are so familiar and pleasant to visit with that I kept going to the same shop over and over, really appreciating seeing them, with lots of varying teas already on offer there.  That's to Jip Eu, my favorite local shop, located near the Hua Lampong railway station.

Their building is under repair, so they're closed, so I visited another local shop to buy tea for a gift within the last month (K. Mui Kee Tea, nearby there).  I wrote about trying a very pleasant Dan Cong from them here.

the owners of that other shop, Jip Eu

I just went back to buy more tea for gifts, and visited with the owner and two other guests there.  This is about that.  That shop owner had always seemed pleasant before, and it was a nice chance to visit more.

I don't want to say or imply too much here about the theme of that shop, or general value for what's there, or what else they carry.  But I can cover how trying those teas went, and that paints some of that picture.  You could assume that some of what I'm saying applies more broadly, that these represent their selection, or what I'm saying about value would hold true for others, but I'm not implying that.  

Inconsistency is one of the interesting parts of visiting Chinatown shops.  A version might be great, or value might be exceptional, then for the next tea it can all shift.  It's not that the shop owners can't judge teas well; my take is that working through very diverse forms of sourcing the outcomes naturally vary.  But who knows about likely causes.

Wild origin black tea:  this is what I already gave away for a gift, and what I was there to buy again.  I had only smelled the dry leaf before, but you can get some sense of teas that way.  We actually tried the tea there (not first; this isn't in order).  It is good.  

Maybe the flavor list is a little unique, not matching some standard type expectation, but the flavors were positive, and they balanced well, as the rest of the character did.  I suppose one might interpret something like limited intensity across some flavor range or light body feel as flaws, but to me it was a solid, pleasant, good quality tea.  I would expect that by shifting brewing approach you could adjust for whatever didn't seem as positive, to you.  

I can't really cite a clear flavor list, based on trying that tea yesterday, not focusing on that.  I think it included some dried fruit, and warm tones were what you would expect for black tea, maybe along the line of cacao.  I didn't notice citrus or roasted yam or sweet potato, but that's not to say that I wouldn't if I didn't try it again, and focus in more.

Cost was 500 baht ($15) for 100 grams.  That's pretty good for good quality, novel, distinctive tea like that.  It's not rock bottom pricing, as can occur in Chinatown shops, but you shouldn't be looking for that in a tea version of a type that's all but completely unique.  If the idea is to find a steal on a main type, like standard rolled Tie Guan Yin, that can work.  Really Thai teas should sell for less, and Chinatown shops tend to sell Chinese teas instead (of course).

a Longjing varietal tasting (covered here)

Longing:  this is a good test case for evaluating any Chinatown shop, isn't it?  If you don't already know why it's not important, but this is a pretty standard type.  It's more or less my favorite green tea.  Flavor tends to be nutty, or to resemble toasted rice, with some floral range, and not too much vegetal or grassy flavor (conventionally).  A range of flavor not too far off cashew can tend to pop, integrated with floral range in a unique way.  The effect can be a little like new car smell, but in a very positive sense.  I get it that comparison makes limited sense.

This version was pretty good, pretty far up the scale.  By that I also mean not at the top of the scale, but to me that's fine, if pricing matches.  It was selling for 1000 baht per 100 grams ($30), which to me seems fine for a pretty good version.  Often the best examples can be more like 50 cents a gram, or at least the normal best that you tend to find.

This is the kind of tea that would divide people with that developed preference.  Some would naturally really want to experience that most intense, most type-typical flavor set, and intensity.  But then they would already know buying that quality level for 30 cents a gram isn't how that tends to go.  To me pretty good versions bring across most of the same appeal.

two other Dan Cong versions, more oxidized and roasted (left) and lighter (right)

Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong:  another good test case / standard type.  Theirs was pretty good.  I didn't catch a selling price, so I won't be able to evaluate if it's good for the price-implied quality level.  If it cost 500 to 600 baht per 100 ($15-18) grams it would be a good deal; if it cost 1000 you might be able to find as good a version for slightly less somewhere else.

That's the most standard type of Dan Cong, another oolong range type.  It's the name of a flower, honey orchid, so it's supposed to taste similar to other versions, and that flower, and I think this did.  It often also tastes a little like ripe peach.  I don't remember if this did or didn't, but I think I came in late in the steeping sequence, so maybe the most intense range had already passed.  Really high quality versions tend to express great character deep into a long round of steeps, but for normal priced versions (25 cents a gram or so, or less) the positive intensity fading over a limited number of rounds is fine.

that might've been between these in style, not so oxidized and roasted or as light

Dian Hong, a version with a lot of buds:  this is my own personal favorite black tea type, Yunnan black.  I tend to like fine leaf versions best, or even from good sized leaves, but buds heavy versions would be in higher demand, and considered more positive, to many.  It tasted like these should taste, and the feel / body seemed fine.  It was heavy on honey and some cacao flavor range, with good complexity and depth beyond that.  

it looked like this, a China Life Dian Hong reviewed in 2016 (the Mei Leaf predecessor)

If this had been a personal favorite style it would've really stood out among the other teas.  I do like it, but for whatever reason I like the leaf based variations more.  They might give up a bit in terms of forward flavor, traded out for more experience of depth, and the conventional flavor range shifts, not so much tied to honey and cacao but more into roasted sweet potato or yam.  For people who love Jin Jun Mei this wasn't so far from that taste range; they would also like it.

Since I'm guessing an appropriate value, even for not knowing cost, I could keep on with that.  This is pretty good quality tea, in a desirable, in-demand style, so a little higher cost range would seem normal.  But black teas tend to be priced lower than Dan Cong oolong, so pretty much everything I sad about the Mi Lan Xiang version also applies directly here.  This probably does cost a little more than the wild origin version ($15 / 500 baht per 100 grams), and that would be fair, related to buds heavy content being distinctive and adding appeal (demand).  To me 1000 baht ($30) per 100 grams would seem a little high, even though in online Western outlets that would still be about right.  Thai Chinatown shops tend to sell at a good value, although that's not always true, and you could still get a "bad deal" on teas in places.

Da Hong Pao (Wuyi Yancha):  a version we tried was fine.  Flavors and other character was in the right range, and it brewed multiple rounds consistently and positively.  We talked about in-house charcoal roasting, related to trying it.  There's a lot that brought to mind, and it was odd sharing how that theme is interesting, and represents distinctive vendor capability, and also serves as a red flag.  I'll add a short version of that here, and not say as much about this tea version.

Per my very limited understanding it's not unusual for Taiwanese oolong vendors to buy essentially unroasted, unfinished tea versions and then roast them to a desired level.  It requires a high degree of skill to do that well.  Producers roast teas under controlled and specific conditions, multiple times, matching the roast input to the existing tea potential.  It's not like just heating them up a standard amount for a standard time, and then they're good.

That's atypical though, again per my understanding.  Most Western vendors would just buy oolongs as finished teas, already roasted.  They would have been processed to match the other processing inputs, the original material character and oxidation level input.  So why else would a vendor need to add roast input?  For two main reasons, and maybe for others as well.

One is to periodically re-roast teas stored over a long time period to restore flavor balance, and compensate for some limited moisture input from storage.  This is a bit touchy, because in modern times, again per my understanding, vendors just seal the teas better to begin with, stored at an appropriate moisture content level, and an older concern about accumulated moisture contact drops out.

A last reason is to cover up flaws in teas.  Vendors might mix a few material inputs that more or less don't completely match with each other (although in the best case they would balance each other perfectly), and cover up inconsistencies in character by roasting it all quite a bit.  Bridging this category and the last, if a tea went completely dead from improper storage roasting might add flavor, even though it's not ideal to let a tea lose most of its original taste.

So one might look on claims that in-house roasting is a positive and important input with some suspicion.  Depending on how it's done, and why, it could be that.  That Da Hong Pao was pretty good, so that's a good sign.  Pretty good is all relative, and let's skip expanding on that for now, and the value part.  I'm also skipping that Da Hong Pao is usually a branding term for either mixed input teas or something random, maybe just Shui Xian, since the most original forms are usually sold as Qi Dan or Bei Dou instead (related plant types).

Another shou pu'er we tried a little of seemed ordinary, but fine.  I'll skip all the extrapolation here, about really placing quality, or guessing about price; we just tried one round of it.

K. Mui Kee Tea; they sell those tea stuffed dried tangerines, a cool thing to try

Other concerns; is this a typical Chinatown shop experience?

It's kind of not.  If shop owners want to try teas with you then they will, maybe even tasting all sorts of things, without really worrying about what you buy in the end.  More often they wouldn't.  A shop might be set up around that theme, as Sen Xing Fa is (a tourist oriented shop not too far away).  These older style, owner ran local shops tend to sell tea at a better value than tourist oriented shops with more staff.

a meetup at Sen Xing Fa; not so many shops would be open to hosting that kind of thing

Or shops might visit and make tea for locals they already know, the case of me visiting Kittichai at Jip Eu.  That's like visiting an uncle, to me.  I buy tea every time, just because it's fair to, and I'm usually there for that, but they'll often brew teas they don't even sell, just to share the experience.

I think this shop owner is unusually nice.  I always had that sense before, even though I may have never tried much brewed tea there.  His reputation is really positive in the local tea community.

So I seem to be saying that the owner is nice, tasting there is no problem, the teas are good, and they are also a good value.  That visit definitely implied all of that.  But I would expect some degree of inconsistency to come up, for some versions to be better than others, and for value to vary.  That's normal for Chinatown shops.  You hedge your bet in having that experience (of inconsistency) when the owner really gets tea, as he seems to, but Chinese tea is a really broad subject.  Even for vendors in the business for decades they tend to know some types better than others, and to have better developed sourcing for some range.

To me this isn't really a significant negative part of exploring teas through Chinatown shops.  Value might not be great all the time, or tea quality, but the normal range is pretty favorable, for better shops.  The worst experiences teach you, and the cost for that instruction tends to be relatively low.

Meeting those other guests was very pleasant.  They weren't so far along the tea exploration path, but they had significant prior exposure, and a fantastic attitude about it all.  They were really nice. 

Tea enthusiasts tend to end up in a strange place related to it seeming normal that people have already tried a half dozen version of dozens of types, and have memorized a couple of books worth of background.  Of course I don't judge people based on how they might do sitting down to write a book about tea off the top of their head.  

In a sense I envy people newer to the interest.  They have so much exploration range to get to, so many instances of trying something new and interesting for the first time.  If you start out trying basic quality tea versions you can gradually drink better and better tea, for years, without it even costing that much.  Just exploring broadly, or horizontally across types (if you like that spatial analogy), you can keep trying pretty good teas indefinitely.  Chinese teas do tend to be unusually diverse, and favorable, with a unique high end related to potential quality level, but it can work in relation to other origins as well.

I can make that more specific.  You could spend 15 to 30 cents a gram on a lot of pretty good teas, and drink different types and characters of versions for years, before it seemed in order to push on to higher quality level, to spend more, in order to really have a more complete experience.  Or you could start "at the top," either way would work.  I just don't think it would work well to explore a lot of the best quality teas out there, and then get around to trying much more basic versions after that.

All of these teas we tried are in the middle, and favorable in character related to that, well above average for quality level and pleasantness.  I could never drink teas better than them, for the rest of my life, and I'd be fine with that.  But people naturally approach all of that in different ways, and it's natural for a perspective on quality levels and what one values to change over time.

The Three Horse Chinatown shop.  I bought some tea there not long ago, but haven't tried any, there or of what I bought (again for a gift; I tend to give away a good bit of tea).  I'd have to recommend going to these other style shops instead, where you can meet an owner and try some tea with them.  Or in Sen Xing Fa it's more just different staff, but they're set up for tasting as part of a routine sales process.

Bangkok Chinatown Xin Ban Zhang and Viet Sun Tua Chua

 

Jip Eu Xin Ban Zhang left, in all photos

interesting how pale the XBZ is, and how dark the Viet Sun tea is

I'm reviewing and comparing two interesting looking tea versions from completely different sources and areas.  One is a third version of sheng from Viet Sun, the other reportedly from a village near the famous Lao Bahn Zhang origin, given to me by the owner of my favorite Bangkok Chinatown shop, Kittichai of Jip Eu.

Let's start with the Viet Sun description, from here:

Tủa Chùa Tall Trees Maocha Autumn 2024 (it had been $30 for 100 grams, but it's sold out now)

A tea from the most sought after tea area in Vietnam, Tủa Chùa in Điện Biên province.

This area can be difficult to source tea from due to the high local and international demand. We were lucky to get a bit from a collector who has been aging this batch since 2024.

This area has some of the biggest tea trees in Vietnam and many are allowed to grow tall. This area is close to Laos and has a different climate than many other tea areas in Vietnam giving teas from here a unique profile. It it very dry and sunny for much of the year here.

This area is known for its signature orchid/ citrus flower fragrance with a citrus, fruity, forest almost tobacco range of flavor. This tea brews up quickly into a rich golden brew. Low-medium bitterness and astringency with heavy sweetness. Strong floral huigan that will start to build after a few cups.

Note that I'm not carrying through the correct accent variations in this area name.  It's a bit disrespectful to the language form, but that doesn't add any meaning for anyone outside of Vietnam, and I am writing this in English.

This huigan effect gets mentioned in this review, but it built up from being a significant effect from both teas (seemingly), so if anything it was a bit much.

There is no listing for the Bangkok Chinatown sheng pu'er, of course, but this listing from Yunnan Sourcing passes on background about the area:

2012 Yunnan Sourcing "Xin Ban Zhang" Wild Arbor Raw Pu-erh Tea Cake

First flush of spring 2012 material from 60 to 100 year old wild arbor tea trees growing in Xin Ban Zhang village. Xin Ban Zhang is the neighbor village to Lao Ban Zhang and the tea from here shares much character with Lao Ban Zhang tea. The bitterness is a bit more persistent with Xin Ban Zhang. The leaf structure, mouth-feel and aroma is much the same. An intense cha qi accompanies the drinking experience. This intensity is the perfect fuel to transform this tea through the years.

That lists for $439 for a 400 gram cake; so much for ever trying that.  They sell a 10 gram portion for $17, so that's not so much buy-in just to try it.

We can't really draw any parallels between teas only sharing a village origin name, but this other version might be from wild arbor material, and we might expect significant bitterness, and a floral nature.  It wasn't bitter in the way described, but there's more on that in the review notes.

I found a small England based vendor selling a cake version from there, which they describe in comparable ways (that sounds pretty good):

Xin Ban Zhang Sheng Pu-erh (2019, listed for 36 pounds for a 200 gram cake, equivalent to $95 for 400 grams)

Xin Ban Zhang Sheng Pu-erh is a 2019 vintage raw pu-erh harvested from 100-200 year old tea trees in Xin Ban Zhang Village. Compressed into 200g cakes, it is a smooth tea with a complex mouthfeel. The sweet fruity flavour has a tannic base with a lasting citrus aftertaste.

...Authenticity and pricing issues aside, Lao Ban Zhang pu-erh is highly regarded for the powerful characteristics of the tea as well as the history of production in the area that goes back over 500 years. By contrast Xin Ban Zhang pu-erh has not gained such notoriety and presents a much better quality to price proposition.

Xin Ban Zhang Sheng Pu-erh raw pu-erh comes pressed in small 200g cakes and displays a complex bold mouthfeel with rich multi-layered flavours. It produces a clean liquor with a fruity and lightly woody aroma. This sheng delivers the expected strong character and lively Cha Qi. There are mineral and woody umami flavours and notes of hay, dried exotic fruits, apricot kernels and yuzu zest. The interplay between savoury and sweet flavours then progresses onto a lasting sweet yet lightly tannic finish.

Some of that overlaps with these notes on this version. They don't even mention bitterness, which would make sense with that input being moderate for this Xin Ban Zhang version I'm reviewing.  Probably that's an old listing, relating to availability and pricing from 6 or 7 years ago, but it's still interesting as an area and type reference.

Usually I don't show packaging, since there isn't much story value there, but it's interesting the Chinatown version was pre-packaged in relatively small amounts.  I should have asked how much they were selling that for; maybe I'll add it in a later edit.

Review:

Jip Eu Sin Bahn Zhang:  there's an interesting heavy mineral tone to this, with some connection to vegetal range, and also quite a bit of complex floral range.  It's interesting that it would start out so strong; this is barely wetted yet.  I'll add more of a list next time; I'm rushing this.  Thinking back, during editing, it's hard to say how rushing the review--related to having limited time, since my wife got back to town later in the morning--affected my impression and what I wrote.

Viet Sun Tua Chua:  richer and deeper flavors, also with significant warmer mineral tone, but warmer floral range, and probably a good bit of fruit.  They're not exactly similar, but it's interesting how category themes overlap, even though the aspects themselves don't.  These are both really nice teas.  How the light mineral and limited vegetal range in the other one evolves will determine how good it is, and for this one it just needs to fill in a bit of intensity, since the rest is already fine.

XBZ #2:  more of the same, just way more intense, even though I brewed these fast, under 10 seconds, and the proportion isn't that high (maybe 7 or 8 grams, in a 100 ml device, so just normal for me, but still a bit high).  Mineral sort of stands out the most, which is unusual.  It connects to both vegetal range and floral range, maybe with floral tones standing out more.  Mineral is more intense though, heavy, but in a lighter taste range form.  Sweetness is good, pronounced, it helps the rest balance well.  

It comes across as reasonably refined, and definitely complex and intense.  Aftertaste carries over, and significant bitterness is at a level that balances well.  It's nice.  Maybe it misses a little of that solid blast of floral range of other LBZ that I've tried, but it's not completely dis-similar.  Bitterness plays a different role, but that part is complicated.  There's a hint of dryness, that pairs with the heavy mineral effect.  It's not unpleasant, but it is a little unusual.

VS Tua Chua:  mineral picks up in this, along the line of the scent of an artesian well, almost leaning towards soapiness, but not quite to that.  It's unique.  Tones are warm; sweetness is good, and warm floral tone and some fruit stand out.  It's clean in effect.  Feel is rich and aftertaste intensity is good.  It's a bit less bitter, but that's moderate for both, really.

I really like this style of sheng, the way that warm tones, rich flavors, and complexity all combine together.  Maybe a year and a half of aging brought it to this kind of balance point.  It has depth; the flavor seems strong, but it runs deep more than it's a forward facing rich flavor range.  Of course the effect in the other is kind of opposite; the lighter tones stand out, even though the lighter mineral does express good depth.

Jip Eu Xin Bang Zhang #3:  interesting!  Not so different than the other rounds.  This mineral range stands out as much as any tea I've ever tried.  Floral range is pronounced.  You have to like pretty strong tea to get this, but for a sheng drinker that's a selling point, a positive feature.  A hint of dryness come across as feel structure, matching the mineral range.

VS TC:  warmer, richer tones.  Heavy mineral is also pronounced in this, just in a deeper range, maybe at a slightly lower level (relating to intensity, but I do tend to use a spatial analogy for which aspects seem more forward and what represents depth, at times).  This has a perfume-like quality, the kind of theme that often applies to really good Wuyi Yancha oolong.  It's often along the line of cognac, how it comes across, but it can be also be more aromatic, resembling perfume, as in this case.

Both of these are intense enough that a flash infusion of both should be interesting and pleasant, maybe not backing off too much intensity, but trying them as light as they can be.

Jip Eu XBZ #4:  it's still really intense, flash brewed.  Sweetness still stands out, and mineral base.  Again mineral is the strongest aspect, so it doesn't come across as a grounding base, as typically occurs.  Feel lightens in the sense of dryness shifting a bit to richness.  It's not really astringent in a conventional sense, but it definitely has structure.  This doesn't really remind me of other tea versions that I've tried; that mineral forward character is unique.

VS TC:  much richer and warmer, but again it's funny how heavy floral themes and pronounced mineral echo the other tea, but in a completely different form.  This does seem a bit like natural growth tea versions I've tried before.  

Flavor range is a little unconventional, which is actually typical, heavy on floral range bordering on fruit, with some unique spice input.  Some sort of novel root spice, I guess that would be, maybe not completely different than turmeric.  The feel isn't as challenging as in turmeric, and it comes across much differently as a balanced part of other flavor range, than turmeric itself.  Someone else might interpret this as resembling an incense spice, or it could also include that, and a half dozen unique flavors might balance against each other.  

In the Viet Sun website description one part is described as tasting like tobacco, and this aspect range I'm struggling to place might relate to that.  

A different interpretation could see this as resembling fruit.  The heavy mineral, sweetness, and overall complexity leave it open to lots of different interpretations.  Feel is rich, and somewhat full, but not at all challenging.  Both of these teas contribute good aftertaste experience, which can seem a bit much taken together.  Drinking two relatively intense, sweet, mineral intensive, complex teas together can be a bit overstimulating.  Either or these would be fine for a nice extended 45 minute session.

Both teas mentioned strong huigan or aftertaste expression in their descriptions (or at least the type-typical nature of Xin Ban Zhang is described in that way in other references cited).  It definitely applies for both of these.

Combined notes on the fifth infusion:  things got too busy to keep up detailed notetaking; my wife returned from Hawaii this morning, so there's a lot of running around and shouting.

Both transitioned to include an interesting new flavor note.  For the Sin Bahn Zhang it was a touch of mint, and for the Tua Chua menthol.  It's interesting how these are relatively completely different teas, but the aspects that they express parallel each other, just in quite different form.  They're both pretty good too.  This kind of hectic review form isn't good for trying to narrow that down, and combined tasting has been interesting, but it's a lot to take in, trying two teas that are this different.

Conclusions:

A few general comparisons might help place these teas, beyond the aspects descriptions.  They both seem to be of good quality, and I can't really use more description of that to place them.

The Xin Ban Zhang tea doesn't seem so close to Lao Bahn Zhang character, but not completely different.  Those--that I've tried, which shared a lot of character range--are marked by pronounced floral tones, which is almost fruity, within a certain bright and rich range, good sweetness, and pleasant bitterness, not really light or heavy, but in a good balancing form.  Lots of sheng expresses a light mineral base, but it's almost never in as primary an aspect form as for this Xin Bahn Zhang version, as a main thing that you taste.  This tea evolved positively, but not really for a long extended cycle, related to it starting to draw out a bit more vegetal bitterness not too long after these rounds, a green wood sort of flavor marking the end of the most pleasant range of the brewing cycle.

It's hard comparing the Viet Sun Tua Chua to the other Y Ty versions I've just tried.  It's a little older, a part I didn't remember from the order, a year and a half old per the label, versus being new.  Tones were definitely warmer, and it lacked that bright freshness of new maocha (which just means loose sheng, in this usage).  It was really complex, and flavor range was distinctive.  

It also might not have lasted as long as those other two versions, although I didn't brew these out completely, at time of writing these notes.  It was great for novelty; more natural growing conditions sheng tends to often express different flavor range, and this represented that.  I'm probably indirectly referring here to "wild" plants that have drifted some in genetic range, versus an input from having other plant types around, although who really knows about any of that.  The tea is however it is, and the rest is as much story line as reliable cause and effect.

So these were really nice, and especially unique.  These reviews sometimes seem to go in cycles, and I seem to claim that everything was just amazing for review after review, or else more ordinary, as a running pattern.  These were exceptional, but the other two Y Ty versions stood out even more, to me.  And the last Wawee Thai sheng I reviewed represented a personal favorite style, and a good version of one at that.

For teas this complex and unique I will probably experience them differently over multiple tastings, and these notes will only work well for a snapshot of a first impression.  For that reason rushing this particular tasting isn't for the best, because I was already trying to cover a lot of novel ground with them.  

Even though I'm saying that I probably liked the other Y Ty and Wawee teas more these are definitely worth trying, and represent two other very unique styles.  More flavorful and distinctive natural growth origin teas are a completely different kind of thing (the Tua Chua version), and this Xin Ban Zhang version was unlike pretty much anything else I've ever tried, related to mineral range being so intense.  It wasn't necessarily too strong, but it didn't play the normal supporting role in that taste experience.

Trying high quality Dan Cong in a Bangkok Chinatown tea shop

 

I visited my favorite tea shop to pick up some tea before I travel back to Hawaii, that CNNP cake I reviewed not long ago (a 2007 8281 Mengku origin sheng pu'er), and to get a bit of tea to give to monks I know on the way out of town.

While there the owner let me try some exceptional Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong (Chaozhou, Guangdong origin oolong, of course).  It was presented as from a single tea plant, which is possible, but you kind of never really know.  The quality was really high; it was at least one of the best Dan Cong versions I've ever tried, and maybe the best.  There wasn't that much room for improvement, only style difference.  

The pricing was eye-watering:  500 baht or $15 for 7 grams, so it's pretty much $2 / gram tea.  Too much, for an ordinary experience.  But I suppose people might see it as a unique experience they wouldn't get around to repeating, that "once in a lifetime" kind of theme.  I don't even consider such things; my tastes and appreciation are fine with drinking ordinary teas.  And I'm adapted to Bangkok pricing ranges, where you can eat a meal for a lot less than $15, or eat and also travel around all day.

To start we discussed processing, relative degree of oxidation and roast.  Kittichai, the owner, said that it wasn't in the modern very lightly oxidized and roasted form, that it was more in a medium range (for both), so a step towards a more traditional, older form.  Really whatever works best for that tea material is best, along with personal preference determining that.  It worked out.  

The scent of the tea was incredibly sweet and floral, or maybe floral and fruity, but very fragrant either way.  It didn't really come to life until he put it in a warmed gaiwan, then it did, even dry.  He was using 4 grams in an 70 ml or so gaiwan (not that I can assess volume like that).  Probably the infusions were even smaller, with the top that you don't fill and the tea taking up space.

It was bright, fresh, fragrant, and intense right away.  The taste was as fruity as floral, even though that type (Mi Lan Xiang) is described as honey orchid, and it's usually more floral than fruity.  It tasted like fresh lychee, the other owner claimed, and that was a good match, even if the power of suggestion may have helped cinch that judgement.

From there it intensified over a few rounds, really turning it up around the 4th infusion.  Sweetness was off the scale, astringency fairly moderate, although there was some, and flavor intensity was crazy.  It was really clean, with great aftertaste expression, and positive mouthfeel.  Good enough to justify the  $2 / gram value?  Who knows.  It was roughly as good as Dan Cong probably gets, although I suppose someone who has been exploring the high end of that range for awhile could judge better.

It didn't transition that much until around 9 rounds in, and then a little astringency started to pick up, which one might interpret as tasting like bitterness, even though the two things aren't the same at all.  It wasn't really pronounced until about the 10th infusion, and we let off around then, or maybe at 11 or 12.

Flavor complexity was so intense that you were just being blasted by floral and fruit range, so it might've been hard to do the normal round by round description of shifts.  If the relative balance of all that was there kept changing I didn't keep track.  It was definitely clean, sweet, intense, balanced, and complex.

I didn't mention the color; it started out with a pinkish sort of color, then I think it transitioned to a more typical light golden amber oolong range.  I'm not sure what that's about, the extra touch of pink, or if it signifies anything.

Packaging was definitely a bit much; it came in tiny aluminum canisters, like weed might be sold in, if there is such a thing as elaborately high end versions of that.  Then that was in a custom case.  This isn't so unusual for Chinese teas, presented as exceptional; they can go a little overboard.  I suppose status would be part of the appeal, drinking what is expensive, refined, and rare, and the packaging helps support that.  

Things are just different in China too.  One might expect lots of things to be rougher edged or more basic, somehow, but there's a broad higher end range of lots of types of experience or aesthetic context that's more the opposite.  Not that I've ever really been living the high life in China; I've visited that country three times, but as a value-oriented tourist (twice), and on a work trip once.  That almost leads into telling a story or two, doesn't it?  I probably shouldn't, but let's.

I went to China on business a long time ago now, maybe just over 15 years, so what I relate might be dated.  I'll skip the parts about the work context; it was somewhat IT related, since that's the field I work in, and from there it doesn't matter.  I was introduced to better tea in a Gong Fu ceremonial brewing demonstration at the company we visited (probably the one company you might think of).  

They were pretty good about not making it seem like tall, beautiful women were the norm in that country, even though they were that as hosts, and extending that not to make lots of claims about the tea brewing, hyping ancient traditional forms as being something they're generally not.  People might make wishes when they pour tea over tea pets; a fairly basic idea like that comes up.  Maybe that frog relates to money (it is holding a coin), and another to success with family, so it would be a good place / context for asking for a next child.  

Chinese people love to make wishes, as Thais do.  My wife loves to visit Hong Kong temples and go through all of that, or there are lots of Chinese temples in Thailand too.  We just happened to be walking into a local Chinese temple in Korat, Thailand, when we had just picked up Myra, our cat (then a kitten), back in 2021, so I took her in there and asked the multitude of Chinese gods to keep an eye on her.  So far so good.

 

some people might recognize this old Shenzhen mall space

Hong Kong; a temple, of course

Apparently drinking alcohol plays a role in business connections.  That's probably the last time I've been good and drunk.  The next time we met with another Chinese company I kept it bit more reeled in; it matches an expectation to go there, but it's really a bit much for me, as a non-drinker (now even more so, but mostly that back then too).

Enough stories.  Later I bought some tea in a shop, waiting for others to buy other things, and that started my next level of tea exploration.  But it was all normal enough.

Back to this tea, it was amazing.  Others would probably appreciate it a lot more than I did.  Earlier on in my exploration of teas I was really into broadening my horizons, and trying out exceptional range, and now I'm fine with just drinking good tea, and by that I mean anything with character and aspects one can appreciate.  That's most teas; they just offer different experiences.  Maybe the low end grocery store versions aren't like that, and other ranges that are comparable, but so, so much of tea range is interesting and pleasant, or at least just pleasant.

But it was nice having a unique experience.  I ran through a tasting set of pretty decent Dan Cong from ITea World a year or so ago (more now?), and it was nice trying the other types.  Mi Lan Xiang and Ya Shi / duck shit get most of the attention in "the West."  And they're often quite pleasant, so I suppose that they should, but others are also interesting.  I tried a number of them from Cindy, of Wuyi Origin, and that's a good source for exploring pretty far up the quality scale, at pricing that's quite fair for what they sell, even approaching $1 / gram.

Cindy!

Being more into sheng pu'er I don't even buy that much oolong now, of any kind.  Eventually I'll probably cycle back through a long exploration and experience phase again, but who knows how long that will take.  Good black tea is more my fallback, most often Dian Hong.  By good I don't mean searching out the high end, best of the best, I mean basic and pleasant.  And if good comparable forms are from Thailand and Vietnam I'll drink that instead, so I suppose calling that Dian Hong style tea is more accurate (DH adjacent?).

This shop sells pretty decent, upper medium quality tin packaged Dan Cong, at a much lower price point range.  That's more what I'd drink, but I only buy it there to give away to monks, to save my tea budget for the next sheng cake, or maybe black tea.

that tea I just bought, and already reviewed earlier, 2007, so perfect for getting to now

Bangkok Chinatown shop Tie Guan Yin and Jin Jun Mei

I'm reviewing two more tea samples from my favorite Chinatown tea shop, Jip Eu.  I was there to buy some other teas and they gave me them (many thanks).  

It turned out they're low-medium oxidation level / high roast level Tie Guan Yin (Chinese Fujian rolled oolong) and Jin Jun Mei, buds based black tea from the Wuyishan area, as opposed to the TGY being from Anxi.  I don't know the full producer details and back-story, so those are the primary origin areas, not a solid claim about the origin of these, but they're probably from those places.  That shop owner has family in those two parts of Fujian, so of course they would be from there.

These are kind of standard tea types.  That oxidation and roast combination for the oolong isn't the most standard form, but it comes up.  Jin Jun Mei is a well known black tea type, just a higher tier sort of theme tea, the opposite of a daily drinker.

This is their Facebook page, one potential contact for them (with their location here).  They have a Shopee outlet page (online sales platform), but it probably doesn't work to cite a link because the web page link details won't apply, but it's here):

I've bought some of that before.  I think the hexagonal tin three over from the bottom right is what I just bought, which I think was Da Yu We Dan Cong oolong, to give to a few monks.  Here's a somewhat recent Da Yu We Dan Cong review, if that background is of interest.

One might expect there to be a good bit of generality related to how pre-packaged tin based teas turn out, related to quality level.  It doesn't work that way.  It's just a packaging and distribution form; the teas can vary a lot, and do.  

In Western outlets we're accustomed to teas being presented in a certain way, then packaged and sold in certain ways (in multi-layer zip sealed bags, with printed labeling), but that kind of form doesn't really improve or detract from tea quality.  We're also accustomed to typical story telling.  Those stories definitely don't make the tea any better, and often if you know tea background well parts tend to be self-contradictory.  Some descriptions work as red flags:  tea master, 1000 year old tea tree, forest origin, etc.  A tea could still be really good even if many of the details a vendor passes on are wrong, if the plant type doesn't match, plant age story, the "master" part makes no sense, they describe oxidation level wrong, and so on.  It's better to go by how the teas are, but you need to try them to know that.

It's nice when Chinatown shops let you try tea after tea, so you know exactly what you are buying, but they don't at Jip Eu.  All of those teas in that image are sold as pre-packaged tins, and they wouldn't have very many of those open to taste from.  They're more of a local wholesale outlet for different grades of Wuyi Yancha, Fujian oolongs like Da Hong Pao, Rou Gui, and Shui Xian.  And then there are lots of versions of teas there no one would know about if they only visited a few times, and after visiting regularly for more than a half a dozen years I still usually try something I've never heard of there.

Shops set up like tourist attractions, where you can taste a lot of things, like Sen Xing Fa, tend to sell teas at higher mark-ups, so you get charged fairly directly for that tasting process.  Sometimes that's in your favor, since you only buy teas you like, but if you pay 25% more for teas that aren't quite as good then that's not favorable.  

It takes a long, long time to be able to judge trueness to type and quality level quickly and accurately.  I drank some of a sheng pu'er with them at that shop that day, an 8281 CNNP yellow label 2007 sheng pu'er, from Mengku, and reviewed a sample at home a week or so later, and my impression was not the same.  How could that be, since I've been drinking mostly sheng for 8 years or so?

Lots of factors enter in.  I was on a fast that day; what you've eaten or haven't eaten changes your sense of taste.  If you are in a hurry that makes your impression less clear.  In a shop they may brew tea slightly differently than you do, which changes things.  Using different water makes a difference.  

Some teas that come straight out of a warehouse storage area will be much better after they rest a few weeks, and air out a little.  Now that I think of it vendors always frame that as the teas needing rest from the trip when shipped, as if temperature and humidity variations affect them during travel, but especially for sheng pu'er it could be that being packed in with tons of other teas is good in one sense and temporarily negative in another; a musty edge picked up from that can fade fast.  The jet-lag theme for teas is usually about intensity being limited at first, for a couple of weeks, or longer.

If you try a half dozen teas at one time that can muddle your impression, especially if you keep mixing stronger and lighter types and versions.  If you can side-by-side taste a tea along with a benchmark version you know, at your home, taking time to settle down and focus in, you'll get a much clearer impression.  

Most of those tins are between $10 and $30, usually for 200 gram amounts, but in some cases for 100, which is on the low end of a normal range, 5 to 30 cents a gram.  Better quality oolong I've bought there was $30 (1000 baht) for 100 grams, at 30 cents a gram, which again is about right, for high demand, high quality Wuyi Yancha.  I've had good luck with Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong there in the past, I just wanted those monks to be able to try something else, so I didn't buy them that.

I'm pretty sure that I own a part of a cake of the 8001 CNNP tea shown in that photo, a 2006 version.  I'd go with the 8281 over that, because that 8001 is on the intense / heavy / burly side, unless someone loves that kind of character.  Or this 8653 Xiaguan cake (from 2006).  That's going to sound strange, to people who know these teas, because that 8653 has a strong barnyard sort of theme, with lots of saddle leather and old barn scent, but to me it works.  Much better than it did in 2022, 4 years ago, when I first reviewed it; that style range of tea can really use the full 20 years or more to age-transition (ferment).

On with this review then.

Review:

TGY:  this isn't really opened yet; the next round will work better for a description.  It's clearly quite roasted, which is a good sign if that balances well with a medium-high level of oxidation (not like black tea; I mean for oolong range), and a bad sign if it's used to cover up flaws, or to re-condition a stale tea version.  We'll see.

JJM:  this is pretty good.  There are a few different styles of Jin Jun Mei, or the range covers some scope, however one wants to frame that.  One style is bright, heavy on honey.  Another is warmer toned, a little closer to a conventional black tea, maybe including more dried fruit range, and slight earthiness or spice.  This is the second.  It does include some honey, and a touch of beeswax, along with a characteristic light dry edge that seems to pair with that beeswax.  Then the rest of the tone is warmer and deeper.  It's closer to rich spice, but hard to place.  There are bark spices out there that aren't cinnamon; maybe that.

Sweetness is good, it balances well, and feel is relatively full, even though this is just getting started.  It's good tea.  I'll need to keep brewing this quickly, at less than 10 seconds, even though this is probably 5 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan, a little less than I usually use.  The other will need to infuse for much longer to get it to open, more than 20 seconds, then probably backed off to 15 or so once it's brewing normally.

TGY #2:  this is much more complex, even though it's still not fully opened.  It's going to be nice.  It includes a bit of cinnamon, so it's not so far off the other in flavor range.  Rich floral tones are a little stronger, quite warm related to the roast effect pulling the whole flavor range to warm mineral.  I'd guess oxidation level wasn't all that high, since bright floral is still present too.  It's probably mineral tone that's warmer, and the two mix, making it seem like warm floral tone, when it's really not.  Sometimes teas like this can seem really out of balance, when there's a lot going on that doesn't completely match, but this is good, just not great.  

A friend shared a decent but moderately plain roasted oolong from Taiwan, that he bought in the airport there on the way back, and this is similar in style but slightly better.  It's not completely balanced, because inky mineral, some warm spice, and some lighter floral range are all mixing, and they don't sync together perfectly.  But it's pretty decent tea.  Maybe on the higher end Taiwanese scale not that good, but that's already filtering versions down a lot for a comparison range.  As teas go you would find in a Chinatown shop, anywhere, this is good.  It would've been nice if just a little more oxidation input had made it balance better.

JJM:  this is on another level, compared to the other.  A bit of sourness, that is picking up, offsets that high quality, very pleasant assessment, but it's still in a different range, just better.  Warm tones add a lot of complexity.  The honey and beeswax, now a lot more subdued, lend it complexity, as spice tones do.  The sourness is a bit much this round, related to it coming across completely positively, but people would have different tolerances for that, or preference range that makes it seem a neutral input, or else awful instead.  Apparently I'm in between; it's worse for including that, but it's not something that ruins the experience.  It would be nice if that evolves back out.

TGY #3:  this might just be where this is settling.  The balance of all of those inputs last round have shifted, but they're all still the same, beyond that.  A cinnamon note is nice; it kind of links the rest.  Warm mineral tones serve as a base, and decent sweetness.  It seems like the floral tone range probably is warming a bit.  Feel has some fullness, which is pleasant, but that's limited; an even higher quality range would probably feel thicker and fuller.  Same for aftertaste expression; it improves the tea including it, but it could be a little stronger.  All in all this is pretty good tea though, with a balanced, pleasant character.  Not perfectly balanced; in between a relative ideal and a tea that's a little off for lacking balance, again good but not great.

If someone loved this high roast, medium-low oxidation style, adjusting TGY character, they would probably assess this more positively.  I'd love a little more oxidation and a little less roast input more, and probably some variation of the Taiwanese Qing Xin cultivar instead.  It's pretty good for what it is though.  A pronounced ink sort of mineral note someone might love, or else dislike.  I don't see it as more positive than neutral, maybe even as a slight negative.

JJM #3:  this is balancing much better; that sourness is fading fast.  Tones have warmed; it includes lots of rich spice and now comes across more as warm mineral.  Brighter honey more or less dropped out.  This probably won't last long, before it's brewing much thinner infusions.  A lot of flavor has extracted out already.  The other took the first two infusions just to open up, and it's only brewing most of the material now, which was true of this much finer black leaf form within seconds.

TGY #4:  for people who haven't explored these ranges of tea a different theme would enter in that I'm not experiencing:  novelty.  I've not tried that many versions of teas in these styles and types, but maybe a half dozen quite roasted, medium-light oxidized TGY, and at least a half dozen JJM versions (not a half dozen in this narrower style range within that type; it's not like that).  It's really nice trying new tea range, but I have to be experiencing something unusually unique to include that.  

Then your favorites it's fine to repeat, over and over.  I could drink decent but ordinary Dian Hong (Yunnan black tea) half of the time, forever, and I tend to like sheng pu'er a little more than that, I just wouldn't tolerate repetition as well for any one version of that.  I suppose that I could drink just one of those relatively basic Vietnamese sheng versions I've been trying two days a week, all year.  These two teas I'm reviewing are nice but not my personal favorite types.

This round improves just marginally; it all hangs together in slightly better balance.  It probably will hold up that way for a few more rounds.  It has to be decent quality to do that (which is early to call, since this is still only a couple of rounds into being fully wetted).  

JJM #4:  this is as good as it's been as well; I suppose it could make a couple of more very positive infusions, and stretch on beyond that.  Warm tones stand out, but there's a lot going on.  The same flavor list applies, but that would be open to different interpretations.  A toffee note seems to be picking up, replacing the earlier honey, settling in where spice and limited mineral covered before.  The spice leans a little towards cacao now; that would make for a more reasonable interpretation, at this stage.  Warm mineral supports and balances that, so that it doesn't just taste like a candy bar.  You wouldn't associate it with sourness in this balance, but I suppose a very light part of it still is that.  

This is a pretty good place to leave off note taking.  These will change a little more over the next two rounds, and they're in a solid part of the infusion sequence now, very positive.  But 8 cups usually feels like a good bit at one time, and the intensity of that Jin Jun Mei has me really feeling these.  It's trivia that most people know, but buds only teas contain the highest amount of caffeine, and processing (the oxidation) barely offsets that any, so this black tea version may well contain 1 1/2 times as much as the older leaf oolong I'm comparing it to.  

At a guess sheng pu'er probably kicks in related to feel related to other compounds also contributing to the experience.  Or maybe it's just magic, "cha qi," the spirit of the earth carried by deep roots from tea trees.  Probably that takes on the form of specific compounds, but that's not as cool a story.

I'd recommend these to others to try.  Jin Jun Mei is an interesting and novel black tea type.  Unsmoked Lapsang Souchong can also be really nice.  I really like rolled oolongs made to balance more oxidation and less roast input, as I've mentioned, but that more traditional style is more rare now.  It might come up more in Taiwanese versions, than for Anxi origin Tie Guan Yin.  Inky mineral and light floral can be ok, evolving into richer spice tones, as this did, but the balance works better for the other style I'm describing, as I see it.

2007 8281 Yellow Label Mengku sheng pu'er, compared with 8891

it's like visiting an aunt and uncle there, even though I'm not that much younger

I'm reviewing a tea sample the owners of my favorite Bangkok Chinatown tea shop, Jip Eu, gave to me when I last visited them.  It's a little unconventional that we tried that tea there during that visit, so I'm writing about it again, based on a much closer form of review.  It was nice of them, to give me more to also try later, and perhaps wise of them to get that impression documented in a tea blog, just by handing over a sample.

It's a little odd, but my impression of it changed.  I was fasting that day (the first day of 5), and talking quite a bit instead of focusing in, so two things changed.  Three, really; I also brew tea for myself differently, because I based infusion timing each round on how I liked the last round.  My water source is probably also different (filtered local tap water, but the filtration must vary).

I don't have a listing or site description to provide, under the circumstances.  Jip Eu is on Facebook here, and they're on Shopee, for people online shopping within Thailand (maybe easier to find as "Three Shell Tea").  I looked up online listings, and two different vendors sell this for two completely different price points (the 2007 version, probably the same tea, although I guess this could be sold in different batch numbers, so maybe not identical).  Here is one of them, listed by Crafted Leaf Tea:

2007 Yellow label Raw Puerh - Iron Cake

Tea Bush : Grade 1 Mengku large-leaf tea bush species

Made from supreme old tree Mengku material, this is a high quality raw puerh from a village in the Brown Mount. region. After 13 years of aging this cake has enter its mature stage, most of the strong bitterness & fresh fruitiness of raw puerh has turn into a mature taste crafted by time.  Comparing with our 2003 Premium Yiwu Private Collection Raw Puerh - Chimney. It features less smokiness but with a very well balance of sweetness of ripe puerh and pinewood & mineral bitterness, followed by a lingering light caramel aftertaste. The aroma lingers wonderfully in the throat. After about seven or eight steeps, the taste becomes more tender and mild, and starts to show a light, mellow fruity fragrance.

So they're saying that it's a Mengku, Lincang region tea.  Google's AI input and another listing agree this was made by the Kunming Tea Factory for CNNP release (Zhong Cha).

This second "Dragon Tea House" listing sells this cake for $40, while the other vendor, Crafted Leaf Tea, sells 50 grams for $22.  What should we make of that?  I'll spare you the idle speculation, beyond this summary.  Maybe one isn't "real," maybe one is overpriced, maybe there are other factors.  $40 for a 19 year old standard producer tea does seem low.  This was selling for closer to that than whatever $22 for 50 grams works out to (nearly 50 cents a gram?  come on.).

This other 19 year old CNNP cake is pressed as a 500 gram version, now listing for $104 through Yunnan Sourcing, where I bought it awhile back.  I first reviewed that in 2019 here, seven years ago, and don't seem to have any newer comparison use review to check in on.  People who have been following Yunnan Sourcing for a long time, and drink sheng pu'er, probably have already bought this cake; somehow it became the standard entry point item to try out way earlier on. 

Reviewing tea labels:  this could be a step too far, but in looking at the three labels of the three teas presented as generally the same they don't match.  The Dragon Leaf version has a different bottom producer identifier name, and the yellow mark in the center is slightly offset (although the Crafted Leaf page includes pictures of both types of differently marked labels; strange).  Make of it what you will; it's not intended as evidence of any indirect claim.  Per the owners of this shop they bought a good bit of this tea back in 2007 from a producer outlet when it came out, which on the face of it sounds reliable.  Who knows though.

the Jip Eu cake label

Crafted Leaf Tea version

Dragon Tea House version (note the "product of") section

Review:

8281 left (my cats just broke one of the plainer cups I use most often; not helpful)

8281 Kunming / CNNP 2007:  it's interesting that this is much darker initially, both the leaves and the infusion.  They're both 2007 versions, but the other spent half its time in Kunming, in relatively dry and cool storage, and this tea version came to Bangkok back when it was produced, bought by the shop owners back then.  It has been stored hot and humid.

Flavors are heavy, of course.  It's relatively clean though.  Beyond the heavy mineral base a pine note stands out, and some medicinal herb tone.  Feel has a nice thickness already, and it has only been one short infusion, after a short rinse.  There may be brighter and sweeter spice that will evolve, or maybe even a touch of dried fruit, but I think this will be easier to read next round.

8891:  it is lighter in flavor range, but this has transitioned pretty far along already.  It's not how I remember it.  There could be a faint hint of smoke-like flavor, but beyond the slightly lighter mineral it tastes something like aged bamboo might.  It's not exactly woody, but pretty close to that.  Sweetness is decent; it gives it balance.  There's just a hint of sourness at the finish, which doesn't ruin the effect for me, but I suppose it's not mostly positive.  Going back and tasting the other after this, the same first round, a bit more root spice stands out in that in contrast, towards root beer, or sassafras.  

I'm not sure why but I'm feeling these teas after the first round.  I took a week of drinking a lot less during a 5 day fast, and never really increased back to my earlier level in the week after, so my caffeine tolerance may be low.

the leaf and liquid color difference is noticeable

8281 #2:  these brewed for about 15 seconds, or maybe slightly over, which is a fairly long infusion for a high proportion and strong teas like these.

It's interesting how heavy and strong this flavor profile is, with it being clean at the same time.  This might turn into pretty good tea with another half a dozen years to finish the full fermentation transition process, which is really far along now, maybe equivalent to over 30 years in cooler and drier storage.

Heavy flavors could either be seen as a selling point or a negative, depending on preference.  Quite heavy mineral tone stands out.  It's strong enough that you need to "taste past it" to identify the rest.  One part of the remaining flavor is like a cured tree bark tone (so woody in a completely different sense than the other tea).  Spice range is still present; it links with that, or overlaps, some range of root spice.  Less of the more forward, bright, dry pine note is present, but it's still there, just in a different balance.  Other complexity probably still does relate to medicinal herb range, ginseng and such, but it's all hard to place, integrating with or being overshadowed by the rest.

8891:  complexity is good in this; there's a good bit going on (which is all relative, of course).  And the tone is lighter, which works well.  That hint of sourness at the end is a little more pervasive now.  I don't necessarily see it as a flaw, but if it was swapped out for something else the tea could be much more exceptional.  It seems to connect with a dryness that you feel in the center of your tongue as you drink it, and more just after you swallow.  

I remember this as a heavier and rougher edged tea.  It has mellowed.  The heaviness of flavor tones fading could easily relate to my judgment changing, or my general perspective.  Tasting any tea in combination with another also shifts things; that becomes a fixed baseline, adding a bias for what is a heavy level of any one input, or placing different aspects differently in comparison.

At this point I like the 8281 better, but this early sourness and dryness may be something that evolves out of this version over a few infusions, so it seems too early for that kind of judgment.  I should mention here that some claim that dry storage is "bad" for a tea, not for just slowing down transition pace, but also for imparting a slight sour note to teas.  I never really knew if that holds up, oddly, even though I've tried a good bit of dry stored pu'er.  Storage that is too wet (humid) is said to impart either a mustiness or overly heavy tones to a tea, or maybe both.  Then people talking about relative optimums tends to make for a complicated subject.

8281 #3:  brewing this faster, at 10 seconds, and being a couple of infusions in really lets this tea shine.  The flavor aspects I've been talking about (pine, heavy mineral tones, limited root spice, other medicinal spice) haven't changed, but the balance does shift completely.  Feel is still good, and pleasant aftertaste carries over.  Sweetness level is nice.  It works.  Brewed a bit stronger it probably wouldn't; this tea is pretty intense.

8891:  this also balances the best it has yet.  The bamboo woodiness seems to evolve to more of a sandalwood spice.  That one light sour range aspect is fading, or maybe a lighter infusion makes it seem to drop, but it's still present.  Feel is better.  

It's interesting tasting these and "looking for" the standard descriptors people often apply.  Do they taste nothing like betel nut (which could only be a guess on my part, not having tried that), or camphor?  Maybe the first (8281) does taste like betel nut, and the second like camphor.  Probably that second attribution is more grounded; there is an edge to this tea that kind of matches that.  The first seems to emphasize that light spice range all the more in comparison.

8281 #4:  I'm getting rocked by these teas.  Colors and color definition seems more vivid; it's affecting my vision.  Why didn't I put less tea in these gaiwans?  It's like a mental block, as if I can't.

This tea is really catchy, the way that a root spice stands out, with so much more going on beyond that.  Sweetness picks up, so the rootbeer like tone leans a little towards a dried fruit note input, but it's still really a sweeter range of spice input.

If flavors were a little heavier it would be too much, but for me that part is fine.  It's really clean, supported by great sweetness, rich feel, good balance, and pleasant aftertaste.  Maybe it would've been even better if it had been stored in a slightly cooler and drier place, and aged for 30 years instead of 19.  A decade of extra wait is a significant trade-off; you can't just move yourself through time to experience that.

8891:  that early sourness is losing its place in this tea, for the best.  It lacks some of smoothness and root spice complexity of the other, but a different form of lighter sandalwood sort of range spice is nice in this.  A light camphor edge has seemed to replace the sourness, definitely an improvement.  It might be even better after 4 more rounds, but it would be pushing it to drink just one more.  Let's go there; let's push it.

8281, #5:  I'm giving these more like 20 seconds to see them from a different perspective.  Heavier tones pick back up again; it's interesting how infusion strength varies perceived character like that.  And it's also handy, to be able to shift what you experience so easily.  It was better a little lighter.  That heavy mineral starts to come across almost like a charred tone, where is was part of a less prominent background context, less strong than the root spice, last round.

It's still not bad, not flawed, or too far out of balance, but it's better brewed lighter.

8891:  this version balances just fine brewed a little stronger.  The sourness didn't return; that did evolve out over early infusions, as I guessed might happen.  It might be slightly better than last round for being a little stronger.  It balances well.  One might expect the camphor effect to pick up, brewed stronger, but it's kind of the same, the flavors are just a little more intense, and the feel.  The other is smoother and richer, with this retaining a little dryness, just not in the same form as over the first few rounds, not as pronounced.  

If you drink the other right after this, while the aftertaste is still present, the contrast in it tasting so much more like spice really stands out.  Tried the other way that dryness stands out most in this, tasted right after the other.  It's not all that challenging or negative when you just drink this 8891, but in comparison it's more negative.  

Conclusions:

I tried a couple more rounds later and there wasn't more story to tell based on that.  Of course they didn't fade out and die within the first seven infusions.

I suppose that I like the 8281 more.  Could it be because it's more fermented, further along in aging transition?  Hard to say; that's not impossible.  The 8891 is lighter, smoother, and more balanced than I remember.  I may not have tried this for years.

Both are pretty decent.  I don't think these are what the Teas We Like curator vendor are probably looking for as the absolute best examples of aged sheng potential, but they're decent, and solid.  It doesn't help that I very rarely drink 20 year old range tea at this point; I mostly drink young sheng, within 3 or 4 years of being produced.  It's completely different in character.  It's interesting completing a 1500 word tea review without mentioning bitterness, for example.

What was missing, if these were reasonably well balanced, with pleasant flavor range, and not really expressing clear flaws, but I'm judging them to be good but not great?  Complexity was decent, and balance ok, but they both could've had a little more to offer.  That root spice range in the 8281 could've been more pronounced and spanned more interesting scope.  The 8891 had issues with dryness and light sourness early on, and then later evolved to be more pleasant, but it still mostly covered spice that wasn't so far removed from wood.  I think both will probably be better as 25 year old teas, that having plenty of intensity at this age is a good sign, so both have room to change positively, if only a little.  This 8891 might be fully age-transitioned at 30 years old, as this is going.

I hadn't planned to buy a cake of this but now I might.  As I mentioned I tried it once before, visiting that Chinatown shop, during a fast, on the first of 5 days off eating.  I didn't like it as much as this time.  It helps slowing things down and spending time with a tea, and brewing according to your own preference.  It helps having eaten.  Your sense of taste changes a lot more after 3 or 4 days of fasting, and you can smell the neighbors cooking dinner really far away, but just skipping breakfast changes things, a little.

This tea--the 8281--might be even better with a few more years to complete a transition, or a half dozen.  The 8891 is also much better than it was something like a half dozen years ago when I tried it last (maybe 3 or 4?  I lose track).  These are definitely not fading to not include much flavor intensity.  

To me this range, standard CNNP character, is one of three good examples of favorable and distinctive factory tea production, along with Dayi and Xiaguan.  Maybe people would typically prefer one of those over the others?  I really do like best-case outcome Xiaguan versions.  Or even the barnyard character of well-transitioned more standard range.  Many of their teas come across as rough-edged and basic but that flavor range is interesting.

there is a second cat over on the other side of the fence