Visiting a Bangkok Chinatown tea shop (K. Mui Kee Tea)

 

I've not been exploring Bangkok Chinatown tea shops much, for a long time.  One set of shop owners are so familiar and pleasant to visit with that I kept going to the same shop over and over, really appreciating seeing them, with lots of varying teas already on offer there.  That's to Jip Eu, my favorite local shop, located near the Hua Lampong railway station.

Their building is under repair, so they're closed, so I visited another local shop to buy tea for a gift within the last month (K. Mui Kee Tea, nearby there).  I wrote about trying a very pleasant Dan Cong from them here.

the owners of that other shop, Jip Eu

I just went back to buy more tea for gifts, and visited with the owner and two other guests there.  This is about that.  That shop owner had always seemed pleasant before, and it was a nice chance to visit more.

I don't want to say or imply too much here about the theme of that shop, or general value for what's there, or what else they carry.  But I can cover how trying those teas went, and that paints some of that picture.  You could assume that some of what I'm saying applies more broadly, that these represent their selection, or what I'm saying about value would hold true for others, but I'm not implying that.  

Inconsistency is one of the interesting parts of visiting Chinatown shops.  A version might be great, or value might be exceptional, then for the next tea it can all shift.  It's not that the shop owners can't judge teas well; my take is that working through very diverse forms of sourcing the outcomes naturally vary.  But who knows about likely causes.

Wild origin black tea:  this is what I already gave away for a gift, and what I was there to buy again.  I had only smelled the dry leaf before, but you can get some sense of teas that way.  We actually tried the tea there (not first; this isn't in order).  It is good.  

Maybe the flavor list is a little unique, not matching some standard type expectation, but the flavors were positive, and they balanced well, as the rest of the character did.  I suppose one might interpret something like limited intensity across some flavor range or light body feel as flaws, but to me it was a solid, pleasant, good quality tea.  I would expect that by shifting brewing approach you could adjust for whatever didn't seem as positive, to you.  

I can't really cite a clear flavor list, based on trying that tea yesterday, not focusing on that.  I think it included some dried fruit, and warm tones were what you would expect for black tea, maybe along the line of cacao.  I didn't notice citrus or roasted yam or sweet potato, but that's not to say that I wouldn't if I didn't try it again, and focus in more.

Cost was 500 baht ($15) for 100 grams.  That's pretty good for good quality, novel, distinctive tea like that.  It's not rock bottom pricing, as can occur in Chinatown shops, but you shouldn't be looking for that in a tea version of a type that's all but completely unique.  If the idea is to find a steal on a main type, like standard rolled Tie Guan Yin, that can work.  Really Thai teas should sell for less, and Chinatown shops tend to sell Chinese teas instead (of course).

a Longjing varietal tasting (covered here)

Longing:  this is a good test case for evaluating any Chinatown shop, isn't it?  If you don't already know why it's not important, but this is a pretty standard type.  It's more or less my favorite green tea.  Flavor tends to be nutty, or to resemble toasted rice, with some floral range, and not too much vegetal or grassy flavor (conventionally).  A range of flavor not too far off cashew can tend to pop, integrated with floral range in a unique way.  The effect can be a little like new car smell, but in a very positive sense.  I get it that comparison makes limited sense.

This version was pretty good, pretty far up the scale.  By that I also mean not at the top of the scale, but to me that's fine, if pricing matches.  It was selling for 1000 baht per 100 grams ($30), which to me seems fine for a pretty good version.  Often the best examples can be more like 50 cents a gram, or at least the normal best that you tend to find.

This is the kind of tea that would divide people with that developed preference.  Some would naturally really want to experience that most intense, most type-typical flavor set, and intensity.  But then they would already know buying that quality level for 30 cents a gram isn't how that tends to go.  To me pretty good versions bring across most of the same appeal.

two other Dan Cong versions, more oxidized and roasted (left) and lighter (right)

Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong:  another good test case / standard type.  Theirs was pretty good.  I didn't catch a selling price, so I won't be able to evaluate if it's good for the price-implied quality level.  If it cost 500 to 600 baht per 100 ($15-18) grams it would be a good deal; if it cost 1000 you might be able to find as good a version for slightly less somewhere else.

That's the most standard type of Dan Cong, another oolong range type.  It's the name of a flower, honey orchid, so it's supposed to taste similar to other versions, and that flower, and I think this did.  It often also tastes a little like ripe peach.  I don't remember if this did or didn't, but I think I came in late in the steeping sequence, so maybe the most intense range had already passed.  Really high quality versions tend to express great character deep into a long round of steeps, but for normal priced versions (25 cents a gram or so, or less) the positive intensity fading over a limited number of rounds is fine.

that might've been between these in style, not so oxidized and roasted or as light

Dian Hong, a version with a lot of buds:  this is my own personal favorite black tea type, Yunnan black.  I tend to like fine leaf versions best, or even from good sized leaves, but buds heavy versions would be in higher demand, and considered more positive, to many.  It tasted like these should taste, and the feel / body seemed fine.  It was heavy on honey and some cacao flavor range, with good complexity and depth beyond that.  

it looked like this, a China Life Dian Hong reviewed in 2016 (the Mei Leaf predecessor)

If this had been a personal favorite style it would've really stood out among the other teas.  I do like it, but for whatever reason I like the leaf based variations more.  They might give up a bit in terms of forward flavor, traded out for more experience of depth, and the conventional flavor range shifts, not so much tied to honey and cacao but more into roasted sweet potato or yam.  For people who love Jin Jun Mei this wasn't so far from that taste range; they would also like it.

Since I'm guessing an appropriate value, even for not knowing cost, I could keep on with that.  This is pretty good quality tea, in a desirable, in-demand style, so a little higher cost range would seem normal.  But black teas tend to be priced lower than Dan Cong oolong, so pretty much everything I sad about the Mi Lan Xiang version also applies directly here.  This probably does cost a little more than the wild origin version ($15 / 500 baht per 100 grams), and that would be fair, related to buds heavy content being distinctive and adding appeal (demand).  To me 1000 baht ($30) per 100 grams would seem a little high, even though in online Western outlets that would still be about right.  Thai Chinatown shops tend to sell at a good value, although that's not always true, and you could still get a "bad deal" on teas in places.

Da Hong Pao (Wuyi Yancha):  a version we tried was fine.  Flavors and other character was in the right range, and it brewed multiple rounds consistently and positively.  We talked about in-house charcoal roasting, related to trying it.  There's a lot that brought to mind, and it was odd sharing how that theme is interesting, and represents distinctive vendor capability, and also serves as a red flag.  I'll add a short version of that here, and not say as much about this tea version.

Per my very limited understanding it's not unusual for Taiwanese oolong vendors to buy essentially unroasted, unfinished tea versions and then roast them to a desired level.  It requires a high degree of skill to do that well.  Producers roast teas under controlled and specific conditions, multiple times, matching the roast input to the existing tea potential.  It's not like just heating them up a standard amount for a standard time, and then they're good.

That's atypical though, again per my understanding.  Most Western vendors would just buy oolongs as finished teas, already roasted.  They would have been processed to match the other processing inputs, the original material character and oxidation level input.  So why else would a vendor need to add roast input?  For two main reasons, and maybe for others as well.

One is to periodically re-roast teas stored over a long time period to restore flavor balance, and compensate for some limited moisture input from storage.  This is a bit touchy, because in modern times, again per my understanding, vendors just seal the teas better to begin with, stored at an appropriate moisture content level, and an older concern about accumulated moisture contact drops out.

A last reason is to cover up flaws in teas.  Vendors might mix a few material inputs that more or less don't completely match with each other (although in the best case they would balance each other perfectly), and cover up inconsistencies in character by roasting it all quite a bit.  Bridging this category and the last, if a tea went completely dead from improper storage roasting might add flavor, even though it's not ideal to let a tea lose most of its original taste.

So one might look on claims that in-house roasting is a positive and important input with some suspicion.  Depending on how it's done, and why, it could be that.  That Da Hong Pao was pretty good, so that's a good sign.  Pretty good is all relative, and let's skip expanding on that for now, and the value part.  I'm also skipping that Da Hong Pao is usually a branding term for either mixed input teas or something random, maybe just Shui Xian, since the most original forms are usually sold as Qi Dan or Bei Dou instead (related plant types).

Another shou pu'er we tried a little of seemed ordinary, but fine.  I'll skip all the extrapolation here, about really placing quality, or guessing about price; we just tried one round of it.

K. Mui Kee Tea; they sell those tea stuffed dried tangerines, a cool thing to try

Other concerns; is this a typical Chinatown shop experience?

It's kind of not.  If shop owners want to try teas with you then they will, maybe even tasting all sorts of things, without really worrying about what you buy in the end.  More often they wouldn't.  A shop might be set up around that theme, as Sen Xing Fa is (a tourist oriented shop not too far away).  These older style, owner ran local shops tend to sell tea at a better value than tourist oriented shops with more staff.

a meetup at Sen Xing Fa; not so many shops would be open to hosting that kind of thing

Or shops might visit and make tea for locals they already know, the case of me visiting Kittichai at Jip Eu.  That's like visiting an uncle, to me.  I buy tea every time, just because it's fair to, and I'm usually there for that, but they'll often brew teas they don't even sell, just to share the experience.

I think this shop owner is unusually nice.  I always had that sense before, even though I may have never tried much brewed tea there.  His reputation is really positive in the local tea community.

So I seem to be saying that the owner is nice, tasting there is no problem, the teas are good, and they are also a good value.  That visit definitely implied all of that.  But I would expect some degree of inconsistency to come up, for some versions to be better than others, and for value to vary.  That's normal for Chinatown shops.  You hedge your bet in having that experience (of inconsistency) when the owner really gets tea, as he seems to, but Chinese tea is a really broad subject.  Even for vendors in the business for decades they tend to know some types better than others, and to have better developed sourcing for some range.

To me this isn't really a significant negative part of exploring teas through Chinatown shops.  Value might not be great all the time, or tea quality, but the normal range is pretty favorable, for better shops.  The worst experiences teach you, and the cost for that instruction tends to be relatively low.

Meeting those other guests was very pleasant.  They weren't so far along the tea exploration path, but they had significant prior exposure, and a fantastic attitude about it all.  They were really nice. 

Tea enthusiasts tend to end up in a strange place related to it seeming normal that people have already tried a half dozen version of dozens of types, and have memorized a couple of books worth of background.  Of course I don't judge people based on how they might do sitting down to write a book about tea off the top of their head.  

In a sense I envy people newer to the interest.  They have so much exploration range to get to, so many instances of trying something new and interesting for the first time.  If you start out trying basic quality tea versions you can gradually drink better and better tea, for years, without it even costing that much.  Just exploring broadly, or horizontally across types (if you like that spatial analogy), you can keep trying pretty good teas indefinitely.  Chinese teas do tend to be unusually diverse, and favorable, with a unique high end related to potential quality level, but it can work in relation to other origins as well.

I can make that more specific.  You could spend 15 to 30 cents a gram on a lot of pretty good teas, and drink different types and characters of versions for years, before it seemed in order to push on to higher quality level, to spend more, in order to really have a more complete experience.  Or you could start "at the top," either way would work.  I just don't think it would work well to explore a lot of the best quality teas out there, and then get around to trying much more basic versions after that.

All of these teas we tried are in the middle, and favorable in character related to that, well above average for quality level and pleasantness.  I could never drink teas better than them, for the rest of my life, and I'd be fine with that.  But people naturally approach all of that in different ways, and it's natural for a perspective on quality levels and what one values to change over time.

The Three Horse Chinatown shop.  I bought some tea there not long ago, but haven't tried any, there or of what I bought (again for a gift; I tend to give away a good bit of tea).  I'd have to recommend going to these other style shops instead, where you can meet an owner and try some tea with them.  Or in Sen Xing Fa it's more just different staff, but they're set up for tasting as part of a routine sales process.

Chang Kham 2025 Thai sheng

 

this 5th infusion shows color variation in the leaf best

I'm reviewing a sheng version from Thailand from Chang Kham tea (or Changkham; it can be either one).  As I understand it it's more or less a spin-off or secondary brand started by a family member from Sen Xing Fa, a popular Bangkok Chinatown tea shop, started as a physical shop in Chiang Mai.  They also source and sell tea under their own brand.

He sent a few teas for review, Mr. Tian did, that family member.  We aren't in close contact, but I post a lot about reviewing different Thai teas in different places.

Their store in Chiang Mai is located here, and this is the related Facebook page.  There is a limited detail product description in that page, for this tea, or a similar one from another year, but I'll reference it in the Conclusions section instead of here, since there isn't an aspects description to compare against.

This photo is from a tasting at Sen Xing Fa, posted about here, where they were great hosts for a number of tea enthusiasts visiting, sharing a lot of exceptional tea:

from maybe around a decade ago, again at Sen Xing Fa

I was in Sen Xing Fa a couple of weeks ago, to buy some Thai oolong

This post reviews tea I bought in Sen Xing Fa in 2018, not that it's all that relevant to this.  That was an unusual Zhong Cha looking version, what was a lot better than it first seemed, aging well into really nice depth.

At the end of this I'll place this tea experience in relation to trying some other Thai sheng this year, some of which was kind of ordinary, and some really exceptional.

Review:

First infusion:  I gave this a bit too long, in part to get it started, and because I looked at something else online, brewing it for around half a minute.  Proportion is lower than normal, so that I can get through a relatively full cycle without doing a dozen rounds.  Lower than normal for me is anything below 8 grams for 100 ml gaiwan; this might be about 6.

Flavor is great.  Honey sweetness stands out, and plenty of floral range.  Bitterness is pronounced, but then this is brewed a little strong.  I'll try a faster infusion next time and it should fall into a relatively ideal balance.  It could be more fruit that I'm noticing than floral range; it's a little hard doing a breakdown at higher than usual infusion strength.  Honey really stands out most.

Tones are warmer than one would expect, for a one year old sheng.  It has brightness and freshness, but it's also warm.  Mineral base gives it good complexity, and the feel is nice, full, and not harsh.  Aftertaste expression is positive, especially for a first round.

Second infusion:  this is still strong more or less flash brewed, which I take as a good sign.  Good intensity is very positive, unless the rest of the range is harsh, or off.  Honey sweetness still stands out.  It's probably both floral and fruit range in this; there is a lot going on.  I always have trouble identifying the floral aspects, but they're warmer in tone than you would expect.  Fruit flavor is along the line of dried longan, which is a personal favorite among dried tropical fruits.  You can think of it as being like dried mango, if that's not familiar, but it's warmer, sweeter (in a sense), and heavier.

The way it's full in your mouth is pleasant, the feel.  The intensity and complexity combine well with distinctive feel and pleasant aftertaste.  There isn't a hint of a flaw in this; everything that's there works well.   

It's less light, bright, and sharp than the Wawee Tea version I've tried recently, that I also love.  For someone looking for warmer tones in a young sheng, that's not challenging, but still complex, spanning some fruit range instead of just light floral tones, this is perfect.  It's probably pretty good for most people, regardless of preference.  I suppose the bitterness would be more challenging for people not into sheng than I'm considering; it did take me time to adjust to that.  I don't see this as bitter, at all, but that is a main part of what is there.

Third infusion:  bitterness might be evolving a little faster than the rest; this is moving from approachable, sweet and mild sheng range on to more conventional sheng character.  For sheng drinkers that's perfect, for others maybe not so much.  One part of the mildness and fullness, almost creaminess, of the feel reminds me of oolong, but it's definitely sheng.  Intensity is greater, complex flavors are different, feel is more substantial, and bitterness stands out.  

This feel hits all across your mouth.  It's almost as if you are tasting it with your whole mouth, as if it reacts with other parts than your tongue.  The feel includes that part about causing you to salivate a little.  Aftertaste includes a good bit of mineral, not really light or warm mineral, but maybe in the middle, or maybe complex.  This tastes like a more wild or natural origin, older plant tea, to me.  Aftertaste effect could be a little stronger, but what you experience is positive.  

One might consider if flavors are less distinct because this was blended from different material sources, or for other reasons.  At a guess it's just naturally like this.

Fourth infusion:  warmer flavor range picks up, in the mineral, and in the fruit and floral range.  I think flavors are combining, that it's not just 3 or 4 main notes, but that the fruit, floral, and mineral ranges cover a combined flavor aspect scope.  One part seems to involve a warmer version of citrus, like some sort of dried peel.  Honey fades, as heavier mineral tone picks up.  It may be moving towards an incense spice sort of flavor range.  

Fifth infusion:  the camera sees darkened leaf material, mixed in with the rest, more than you notice just looking at the leaves.  A higher than average roast input for some of the material is probably lending it complexity, or maybe it's extra oxidation input, or both.  

I see that as positive, although it's not really completely conventional, for Yunnan sheng.  It doesn't mean that it won't age well, although the transition patterns may be affected some by that.  If most of the material is normally processed, not more oxidized or roasted, it should still change in the normal ways, across a typical time-frame, but any alteration for some of the material would make some difference.  Versions that are notably more oxidized don't tend to age very well at all, beyond a few years.

It's clean and complex, and intensity is good.  I'm not having luck breaking flavors down more.

Sixth infusion:  not so different; I'll leave off taking notes here.  Intensity stays positive, but some of the interesting flavor range (honey and fruit) tends to evolve away earlier on, even though the rest stays positive.  It's still pleasant to drink, just not like it was.

Conclusion:

Thinking back on it this post could seem a little less positive than it would be if I hadn't been drinking such exceptional Thai and Vietnamese sheng lately.  Without meaning to I'm comparing this to some of the best SE Asian sheng versions I've ever tried, just because it worked out that way.  I describe it as very good, but it might just sound normal.

It held its own ok, but that might not have came across in those review notes.  I suppose I liked the Wawee Tea sheng I've recently reviewed a little more, but it was a great match for my own personal preference, and a really exceptional tea version.  Others could easily like this more.

To clarify that, the Wawee Tea version included more bitterness, more intensity, and some extra vegetal range, a sort of green wood edge.  I love that, if it all balances well, along with pronounced sweetness, fruit flavor, and floral range.  It does, in that version.  This tea might be a little fruitier, initially, and probably less challenging. 

It would sound like it's less durable, because I'm describing its character as leveling off in a sixth infusion, where I've been reviewing those other Thai and Vietnamese sheng into 7 or 8 rounds, and changes were still not a sign they were fading.  One part of that related to using a lower proportion, and to brewing the first round for about twice as long as made sense, for 30 seconds instead of 15.  It would more optimum to use shorter infusions for a tea like this, and it would run its course over 8 or 9 rounds, at a normal proportion (again for me at 8 grams).  It would then brew a few more pleasant rounds, maybe totaling a dozen or more.

It's tempting to move on to speculating about a fair market value range, but that doesn't work well.  This Facebook post, which may not be an identical tea version, lists small 200 gram cakes of black tea and "raw tea" for 2000 baht each, for about $60:

I wouldn't age this tea, beyond 2 or 3 years, but it might be good after 15 or 20 more years

That would make it $107 for a 357 gram cake size, which they don't seem to sell.  That's not bad.  It's high for local in-Thailand tea pricing, and normal for Western market range.  I paid less for the Wawee Tea versions, which I do like better, but the Tea Side Western-facing Thai tea online outlet tends to sell teas for more, which may be generally equivalent.

For a tourist visiting they are absolutely not going to find local Thai sheng this good anywhere else.  But then you can't just drop in on Wawee Tea (unless you are in that village, and made arrangements ahead of time), or visit Tea Side, which is an online shop.  So if it costs 30 cents a gram instead of some lower amount that's still a great value.

Vietnamese tea status, according to two experts

 

Steve of Viet Sun!

Seth and Huyen, visiting Bangkok

The tea industry in different countries in South East Asia can be dynamic, and Vietnam has a broader range of good tea to offer than any of its neighbors, except for China, and styles and higher quality levels seem to be developing there.

I asked two friends to share input on this.  Steve of Viet Sun is a main Western facing vendor, focusing on pu'er, or the local equivalent type.  Seth is a tea researcher, working on very developed writing on tea, along with Huyen, one of my favorite tea friends.  Seth is too; they're both great, and knowledgeable to a degree that's hard to relate to.

How does the perspective and demand on tea seem to be changing in Vietnam (by consumers)?

  

Steve:  I work mostly with old tree assamica teas (what many people in Vietnam call trà shan tuyết or shan, snow shan tea in English) as well as wild varietal non-sinensis teas so I’ll only speak on that segment of the industry. I see a lot of people getting into these types of tea, many just over the past few years. There are more and more tea shops opening and offering many styles of higher quality teas in bigger cities like Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City. The demand is still quite low compared to green tea from Phú Thọ and Thái Nguyên provinces though. 

Many tea makers are experimenting with different styles. For example, you can go to villages in Cao Bồ, Hà Giang and find multiple teamakers who make halfway decent- good versions of many different tea styles, while 5 or so years ago it was difficult. Many producers see other producers making new styles of tea (raw puerh, black, white) and they start producing it themselves with varying degrees of success. 

An example of this is some time in the past couple years, a couple tea makers started making tea stuffed wild tangerine tea. Now many tea makers all over Hà Giang are making them. Many however, apply that higher volume “export tea” mindset into making these other styles and often fail to sell these teas due to competition from higher quality similarly priced options. 

Yt Y local area tea trees; photo credit to Steve

that tea, prepared as a tea cake, or bing

the right spelling (accent / diacritic)

Seth:  Matcha has exploded in popularity among the general public. Matcha products are now widely available in cafes all around Vietnam, and many tea factories have started producing matcha. This fits easily into the milk tea trend that started more than ten years ago. 

In terms of tea shops offering specialty teas or a general trend of specialty tea consumption in Vietnam, that is still only a small part of the overall market. Most locals middle aged or older drink green tea produced in Thai Nguyen, but there’s a rising demand for teas that use less industrial production techniques, which has created an opening for teas from Vietnamese heritage varietals like the various Assamica varietals locals call “Shan.” 

On the higher end, there are a lot more players in the market than there were ten years ago. These are mostly business people from Hanoi who see opportunities to invest in tea as a luxury product for higher income brackets in Vietnam. Some of the tea makers who focused on the Chinese market in the past have started expanding into the Vietnamese market since COVID forced them to look for new markets due to border closures. The shift to local markets seems to be enduring. There is also a rise in Chinese teas being sold in Vietnam, and some Vietnamese are making major investments in bringing Chinese tea to Vietnam, teas like Wuyishan wulong, Liubao, and Yunnanese teas. This is a small trend but seems to be prominent.

Editing input:  just a random tangent, but it's interesting that "oolong" always should have been "wulong," that the original transliteration was pretty far off (per my understanding, at least).  Now the right term depends on how you see language use conventions and transitions, and it really doesn't matter.

How is the industry changing in response to that, or do industry changes lead that other consumer perspective change?  Are producers exploring new styles, or is awareness of traditional tea styles broadening?

Steve:  The general attitude of many tea makers I know seems to be to focus more on higher quality tea or at least higher quality compared to the high volume “export grade” tea they were making for China. The Chinese tea industry seems to be quite unstable at the moment so many people are focusing their efforts locally as well as internationally in countries besides China. 

Seth:  Traditional tea styles in Vietnam are mostly dead or dying out. Most are extremely localized, within a few towns or districts, and they are not something that most Vietnamese people are even aware of, or would have an opportunity to try. In the specialty tea community in northern Vietnam, there is some interest in reviving tea production methods for Vietnamese yellow tea, which is made using an older technique for making Puer tea. Some are using this as material for making lotus tea, which is closet to the techniques that were used to make lotus tea about 100 years ago. 

The most popular traditional Vietnamese tea is still boiled fresh tea leaf. Locals will buy it at morning markets and drink it throughout the day. But this is mostly the older generation. The younger generation doesn’t tend to drink fresh tea leaves because there are lots of other beverages to choose from now. 

Editing input:  without some context it may seem like this input contradicts his last comments about people tending to drink Thai Nguyen green tea (sometimes branded as "fishhook" style).  Seth is surely aware of a range of very local tea styles that most of us will never hear about, even though I don't intend to add too much here to clarify what he really meant.  Western marketing tends to make it seem like there is really a much narrower subset of types out there than we see in online markets, even related to Chinese teas, which get the most exposure.

-are Facebook pages or online platform shops changing how tea is sold in Vietnam?

Steve:  Yes, many tea producers are on Facebook and many customers buy tea directly from them. Many tea shops have websites but they are often not updated. You usually have to contact them directly to see what their current offerings are.

Seth:  More rural tea makers are able to sell their teas directly to customers via Facebook. This offers the possibility of much higher income that they would make selling tea harvests to factories. However, the quality is not always consistent, and some of the tea can be quite rough, so Facebook marketplace doesn’t always translate to long term economic benefits for rural tea makers. In some cases, they wind up with bags of tea that they struggle to sell because of quality issues. Customers also have a higher risk of getting a product that isn’t satisfactory.

Editing input:  I've had very mixed experiences trying to buy tea locally, more in Thailand, but also from Vietnam.  Sometimes it works well, especially with others' help related to awareness of types and options, but you never see clear product listings, and issues like communication (language issues), money transfer, and shipping are all typically quite problematic.

-has foreign Western tea demand changed (consumer purchasing from outside of Vietnam)?

Steve:  I see interest in Vietnamese teas in the West growing year after year. Many people both tea business related and consumers travel to Vietnam to visit tea producing areas and tea shops in the cities. I don’t know exactly how other tea businesses are doing here but our sales have been growing gradually year after year.

Seth:  Changes in Chinese demand are pushing Vietnamese tea makers to look for new opportunities in the local market. The exact numbers are unclear.

The market for specialty Vietnamese tea is still miniscule outside of Vietnam, but awareness of Vietnamese tea is continuing to grow as tea enthusiasts introduce it more regularly to markets in the US, Europe, and Japan. Overall, this is still pretty small scale.

-can you add a little more about what is of interest to you related to Vietnamese tea experience or tea culture development?

Steve:  I really enjoy spending time in the tea mountains. The scenery is beautiful, there are many regional food and drink specialties and the culture of the different groups of people living in these areas is very interesting. Some tea areas have tea trees but there is little or no tea making happening there. Some areas just sell raw leaves to factories in other areas. I work with the local people and share what I know about tea processing and the tea industry in Vietnam. The state of protection of the tea trees is quite depressing in many tea areas here so It’s important to demonstrate the value and potential of what tea can provide with the people living there. 

I am currently focused on exploring new tea areas, learning more about tea production and the history of tea culture in Vietnam especially in the different tea producing areas. My favorite style of tea is raw puerh so I really enjoy getting to appreciate teas from many different terroirs in northern Vietnam. It’s also always fun to meet people interested in Vietnamese tea and share with them what I think are good examples of teas that represent the current state of tea in Vietnam. 

Seth:  There are more efforts now to create a unique Vietnamese tea identity by encouraging local ceramicists and potters to make tea ware, and locals tea enthusiasts are putting a lot of effort into spreading Vietnamese tea to an international audience, and pushing to improve the quality of Vietnamese tea products. 

Thoughts on this input

A Vietnamese tea friend, Huyen, who any longer term readers would be familiar with, just posted photos of a new tea shop in Hanoi (or a relatively new place; it could be an update about a renovation, or new space).  It's my understanding that shops are developing, especially in Hanoi, as mentioned in comments.  Huyen and her family (Tra Viet is a family business) sell a broad range of teas, of course, but they also focus on sharing demonstrations of traditional tea brewing practices, which are essentially the same as Gong Fu Cha, but surely also slightly different.

Huyen and her brother (her family is also great)

that shop, in Hanoi

It's a great time to explore Vietnamese teas, before that trend for higher demand catches up with expanding production supply, and costs rise.  

More basic range is also high in potential for exploration, so one might stay open to that side too.  That range isn't as widely available online as one might expect; Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, and Indian teas draw a lot of online focus, and Chinese and Japanese green teas are more popular.  It's kind of a shame, because even basic Thai Nguyen region "fishhook" style green tea can be nice (and I don't even love green tea), and higher quality, more novel types all the more so.

tea meetup with them in Bangkok

2006 Xiaguan FT Te Ji sheng pu'er tuocha

 

On a recent visit to my favorite local Bangkok Chinatown shop, Jip Eu, the owner, Kittichai, gave me a Xiaguan tuocha.  They'll often pass on a sample of something interesting, but I don't remember them giving me that much tea like that (100 grams; not so much, but a significant amount).  It's very kind of him.  I suppose it's partly in thanks for me writing here about them, and steering some business there, which to me is about helping others find decent tea, not really about benefitting me.  I typically mention other shop options as well, as I did in the last post, discussing how Sen Xing Fa--another nearby shop--is set up better for doing extensive tasting.

I probably found what it was, more or less by chance.  A King Tea Mall listing looks exactly the same, down to all the numbers listed, and Chinese text (as far as I can tell).  Of course there is also Google Lens translation, but that helps less than one might imagine.  It's probably this:

2006 XiaGuan "FT-Te Ji" (Special Grade) Tuo 100g Puerh Sheng Cha Raw Tea

Listing for $26 for a 100 gram tuocha there.  That probably is market rate now.  You can buy the newer ones, that need another 15 or 20 years to age more, for more like $10, but someone holding onto it to cover that part costs you, with varying storage conditions inputs giving different results.  Then it's probably also an above average quality version, outlined in detail by that King Tea Mall listing:

Description:

The 2006 XiaGuan "FT-Te Ji" Tuo is part of the esteemed "Te Ji" series, denoting "Special Grade" in Chinese. This line of Puerh Sheng Cha, initiated in 2003 by XiaGuan, aimed to exceed the quality standards set by the JiaJi tuo cha. Renowned as "TeTuo" ("特沱"), an abbreviation of "TeJiTuoCha," this series underwent an official renaming in 2016, underscoring its prestige.

Distinctive Features:

The wrapper bears the trademark design of a "Pine tree and Crane," emblematic of the series' heritage and superior quality.

Variants of the "Te Ji" series include the general version and a higher-quality variant distinguished by a red-eyed crane.

The "FT" (Fly to Taiwan) version employs slightly superior tea materials, featuring more young buds and tiny leaves.

I had thought FT stood for "for Taiwan," but that doesn't change much either way.  This shop, Jip Eu, doesn't carry this tea anymore, per my understanding since they've sold out of a large batch they would've bought back in 2006 or so.  I do keep buying another 2012 Xiaguan tuo version there, which they still sell.

Review:

first infusion (after a rinse):  flavors are nice, subdued, clean (as this range of tea goes), interesting and pleasant.  The distinctive flavor that reminds me of aged horse saddle leather is there.  Harsh edges have largely aged off it, in those 19 years.  That would have to do with the hot and humid storage here; that wouldn't be true of the exact same tea stored in a cool and dry area.  

second infusion:  feel is thick, oily, and viscous.  I really do like that odd earthy range of flavors, especially in a version that's closer to ready to drink than I usually try.  I re-tried a 2012 Xiaguan tuo (from Jip Eu, the one that they still do sell) over the past week and it's close enough to enjoy, but not this far along for fermentation transition.  Beyond the leather--or at least what I interpret as leather--there is good depth of other range, mineral content, towards medicinal dried herb, and a little towards dried longan or tamarind fruit, it's just not overly fruity.  Feel is pleasant and the overall effect isn't harsh at all.

third infusion:  it reminds me a little of smoke, brewed a little stronger.  Often if a tea has contacted smoke that input will come out strongest right away, and keep fading.  This might well just be a natural related flavor, which does kind of match with the rest.  I'm not sure if this is a positive transition or not, related to my own experience just now.  I'm open to teas tasting like smoke, natural (inherent) or added, and it does match the other barnyard scope, but it's not necessarily better for including it.  Or worse either, as I see it, so just different.

fourth infusion:  quite balanced at this level; everything I've mentioned is still going on.  It's got decent intensity, of course.  I'm brewing this using a moderate infusion proportion too, for me, maybe only 7 grams in 100 ml gaiwan, versus the more typical 9 or so (typical for me).  Mind you not everyone would like this; to others it could be harsh, or off-putting.  The 2012 was more so, with so much of the earlier rough edges standing out.  I had my daughter Kalani taste it, and to her it was awful.  She asked why anyone would drink that.  I liked that version too (yesterday, I guess it was), but it wasn't quite ready, maybe by those extra 6 years.

her, posing

It's hot as Hades here, trying this tea in Bangkok at noon.  I should at least turn a fan on, but I've not even done that.  It was so nice living in Honolulu where the temperature is between 75 and 80 F all the time, maybe 25 to 28 C, and now it's back to 30s / around 90 F all the time.

fifth infusion:  the complex balance of flavors keeps shifting, the proportion, but the range isn't changing.  Smoke isn't gone but it was only a main flavor input for that one infusion.  Sweetness is nice for this; to me that one input helps tie all the rest together.  Feel is nice, and intensity, and aftertaste expression.  Layers of leather, barnyard flavor, medicinal herb, and some dried fruit really complement each other.  But only for people who like aged Xiaguan, of course, and it's hard to imagine someone preferring newish, untransitioned versions.

sixth infusion:  not different.  I might even drop taking notes here.  There probably will be some degree of interesting change as this wraps up, around infusions 10 to 12, or it could be pleasant and interesting up to 15 rounds or so.  Intensity is high enough for this that I'm using short infusion timing, 5 seconds or so, which will enable it lasting longer than if I was soaking it for longer.

Seeing a Tiger Balm pack of balm on the table reminds me how someone might interpret this as including quite a bit of camphor.  I suppose that it does, as people use that term.  I've never been completely comfortable isolating that as a description very often, but it's there.  Food range makes more sense to me; you get chances to eat those things, and it associates more naturally as a flavor.  Something like smoke is familiar enough from foods that this connection often makes sense too.  

Then I just can't remember specific floral ranges or incense spices.  Maybe this tastes a lot like one of them, and I wouldn't know.  Interpreting it as including incense spice would make sense too, but it would be helpful to be familiar with a half dozen of those, to break it down to that next level.

seventh infusion, comparison tasting with a Dayi (8582):  I was re-trying a standard Dayi cake with breakfast, not to see if it was ready, because it wouldn't be, from 2016 (9 years old).  It's pretty far along for spending that time here in Bangkok, but it needs at least another half dozen years, and it will level off closer to where it will be in another 10.  I keep trying the teas to see the transition patterns, because they're interesting.  It's not even about education or learning, it's just interesting.

The Dayi tea is harsher; it's not there yet for age transition.  It includes a green wood component, and a harsher form of astringency.  This is much better than it was two years ago when I first bought it (reviewed here then), becoming more pleasant.  Positive warm-toned flavors are developing.  

It's interesting how that "barnyard" range stands out in the Xiaguan.  It's not just that it's further along for transition, and it is that; the basic flavor range is also different.  There's a nice sappy effect that goes along with that, crossing over from flavor to feel.  I'm not sure what I expected this comparison to highlight.  The flavor and other character differences are interesting, but not informative.  It was sitting on the table beside me doing the tasting, so it seemed as well to try both and mention it.

This stopped short of guessing where the Xiaguan stands in terms of being relatively fully age transitioned, fermented, or how it might change over some of the following years.  19 years of transition in Bangkok storage is a lot, but it will keep changing over the next decade, probably mostly for the better.  It's definitely not going to run out of intensity.  Most of the green wood type flavor range and harsh-edged feel is gone, so it's fine to drink now, but it might still be a good bit better later.  I'd have to try it in another half dozen years to know.  I suppose that I probably will mostly set it aside to see.

Benchmark reference:  Liquid Proust now carries a similar Xiaguan tuo

I remembered seeing a mention of a Liquid Proust (vendor) Xiaguan tuo of about the same age, and that will help set what a market rate is for this.  Here is his listing:

2006 Xiaguan FT7653-6 100g, THB 1,016.95 (around $30)

Out of all the storage I've had there was always the Yang Qing Hao and Wistaria house notes that couldn't be rivaled. Then comes along this 2006 Xiaguan random tuo that has been pushed in warm and humid conditions in Taiwan. The depth of the tea with the smoke notes that are matured into something new with the puerh... it's a treat that I will miss dearly. This might be one of those extremely lucky finds.

Per the comments it's the aging conditions that give the tea great value, and the one Hong Kong shop that James of Tea DB keeps mentioning, Yee On tea, carries something similar for about double that cost, so $60.  

So market value is somewhere between $30 and 60?  That's a good bit for a Xiaguan tuo.  Next one would need to compare storage inputs to determine if the one I've just reviewed is really as good, or better, and personal preference would enter in so much in making that determination that it really wouldn't work, as an objective finding.

Thai minor deity tea cups, in the MBK mall; something different

Jip Eu Lao Banzhang and Xigui sheng compared with Moychay LBZ

Jip Eu Xigui left, then JE LBZ middle, and Moychay version right, in all photos

I visited my favorite local Bangkok Chinatown shop over a month ago now, before visiting the US, to pick up some basic Shui Xian for gifts "back home."  The owner, Kittichai, gave me some coins of what look to be interesting sheng pu'er.  His description of what they are:

This tea is the product that the shop sells. It is raw Pu-erh tea. There are 4 production sources: 1. Laobanzhang, 2. Xigui, 3. Pingdao, 4. Yiwu (ripe Pu-erh). It is produced by Si Da Ming Pu Company, which is a factory owned by relatives.

They were #1 and 2 of those, the LBZ and Xigui.  

Given how LBZ works out the next question that arises is always "is it real?"  There is a narrower village area, what LBZ is really supposed to mean, and then the common claim is that much of what is presented as such is really from a larger area, so related but not exactly the same.  I'm not accusing that shop or this tea of it not being legitimate; I can't really weigh in on source location issues like that.  Which brings up how one might even begin to guess about that origin issue, or weigh any evidence.

it would've been cool if the tiny discs had age stamps on the labels

I've tried a number of LBZ versions, or teas presented as such, maybe a half dozen or so, or at least 4 or 5; it's hard to keep track.  I just noticed that I had some from Moychay LBZ from a few years back, a 2020 version, so I can compare the versions.  Of course one version being aged longer changes everything, and it's not as if teas from those narrow source areas are necessarily all completely identical.  Every year micro-climate issues change the harvest, and very local growing conditions factor in, along with processing, and there should be some variation in plant ages and type.

Trying three teas together would be a lot, but I do like to lean into combined tastings to keep these multi-part reviews moving along.  I'll do it!

I'll be skipping the part about referencing vendor product listings, because I don't have access to any.  The Jip Eu tea is sold by a Bangkok shop, and I didn't do an extensive search to see if I could find this online, but that's unlikely anyway.  I looked up the old review I wrote for this Moychay LBZ version (here), but it didn't reference a product link.  The post said that one was up but it didn't have pricing details yet; I really should've referenced it anyway, back then, in case it might still work now.  That review mentioned a lot of fruit, and of course it's on to warmer tones now, almost four years later.  The time just flies.

I never did get a production age from Jip Eu until after I tried these.  They're from 2018, so two years older than the Moychay version (2020), aged 6 years now, or maybe 6 1/2, depending on when they were made.  It was interesting considering that during the tasting, because it's not at all clear from the character.  They seem significantly aged, but not fully aged, and there is a lot of space for potential age in between a couple years old and a decade.

Review:

Jip Eu Xigui:  a little light; I didn't really try to stretch out a first infusion time enough to make this more conventional.  It works well getting a limited first impression then really starting on round 2.  

This will be good.  Complex floral tones already show through, supported by warmer range.  This almost has to be a good bit older than half a year old, this year's tea, judging from that character.  And from the brewed liquid color; both are too dark.  At an early guess this is probably better than the average sheng I try, maybe even some versions presented as exceptional.  There's a faint hint of smoke.  I'll do more of a list description next round.

Jip Eu Lao Banzhang:  in a sense forward flavors are less pronounced, but a richness and depth comes through better than for the first version already.  Again this just can't be a 2024 tea, or a whole section would be needed to discuss how that kind of anomaly could even occur, but I can't guess how old it is yet.  This is also clearly very exceptional tea, even based on getting a limited early impression.  Floral range is pleasant, and there's lots more going on with it.  Warm mineral depth is nice, positively supporting the rest, and feel is already positive.

Moychay Lao Banzhang:  this is going to hold its own with the other two, at the least; it is also exceptional.  It might be getting a slightly faster start for being maocha initially, for opening up and brewing faster, related to never having been compressed.  For this being a 2020 tea it has transitioned a good bit; early fresh, bright flavors have evolved to become pleasantly complex warmer tones, with an awful lot going on.  It has a pleasant fruitiness, which I'll describe more as I go.

For sure it's not possible to buy this tea, and hasn't been for years.  It's a shame; I can see why adding significant spending to tea sourcing to set away versions like this for mixed lengths of time would add a lot to tea experience.  If this had been a relatively costly (but perhaps still reasonable) $3 / gram setting aside an extra 50 grams would cost more than a standard boutique produced cake, as long as it wasn't gushu.  Along the way the same sourcing issue would come up; is it real?  It's quite good, but I never could definitively guess about origin location claims, even for more mundane source concerns.

JE Xigui #2:  these should be brewing just fine, on to guessing about infusion time for less material than I usually brew, maybe about 5 grams.  I'll err on the long side this round, just in case, and go close to 30 seconds.

There's a bit of smoke in this, pronounced enough that you can't miss it, but not overpowering.  There was a hint in the aroma the first round but you couldn't taste it as clearly; here you can.  It's strong enough that it's a main flavor input, so that does change things, so that someone's feeling about that input would determine the entire experience.  I don't mind it, but it's hard to see it as positive, an improvement.  Beyond that the rest is fine, some mixed floral range, good supporting mineral, and other harder to isolate warmer tones.  It may need to drop out over more rounds to enable a clearer interpretation of the rest.  

The smokiness tastes like wood fire smoke, like a fireplace that's empty but that has been used a lot.

Jip Eu LBZ:  as I interpret this it's in a place where initial brighter floral range is well along in transitioning to warmer tones, to spice range and such, with warm mineral replacing what was probably earlier on lighter mineral.  I don't think it's at the teenage-years threshold character where versions tend to not make sense, not fully switched over, but kind of showing gaps where the change hasn't filled in yet.  But it's not like a young / new sheng either; early sweet, light, bright range is well along with transitioning.  

Storage conditions varying so much related to changes makes it hard to guess the age.  7 or 8 years of dry storage can be comparable to just 3 or 4 in a warm, humid place, even if the changes aren't exactly the same.  It's not as if it's the same changes at a certain distance down a linear path.

Feel is quite pleasant, the way that full, warm mineral tones join a full, rich feel that seems related.  Bitterness is still present, but not much of it.  What is still there transitions nicely to sweetness after you drink it (funny how I never mention hui gan here; it's that).

Moychay LBZ:  that's so nice!  There's so much fruit present, in a very interesting and positive range.  A little dryness and bitterness offsets it, and there is plenty of warm mineral tone too, but one part of the flavor range is really interesting, complex, warm dried fruit.  This may not be a fair trial for the Jip Eu versions, if this has aged longer, and the extra couple of years has allowed it to evolve this depth and complexity.  Or it could be that varying storage inputs make that an uneven input, or that changes in initial form and potential mean the teas never would seem similar, even with the same storage input and amount of storage time to change them.

The warm dried fruit might be along the line of dried longan, but a root spice tone stands out just as much, as you try to break it down, towards sassafras.  The warmth and character range is reminiscent of cinnamon, it's just not a close match for flavor for that.  The fruit tone, or tones, I think people would interpret in different ways.  Dried longan is just a place-holder to give a clearer impression; really it's complex.  

Jip Eu Xigui #3:  I'm really feeling these teas already; that's the obvious drawback of trying a three way comparison.  I've already drank some water and ate a few nuts between these rounds; kind of early for resorting to that.

The smoke flavor might be settling out already in this, but it's still there.  It will probably take one more round to describe the rest better, which would work better if the smoke input happens to clear up.  I went with a fast infusion this round, no longer than 10 seconds, and that doesn't help the rest stand out more.

Jip Eu LBZ:  this is really good, quite exceptional.  It doesn't help it that the next version I'm comparing it to will be that much more complex and intense, across really interesting scope.  The two do overlap a little in basic flavor; dried fruit, with some floral range that's more in the background in the other that stands out in this.  The warmer tone range is comparable, mixing with other spice range.  

It may be that this isn't as transitioned as the other, so it's in a different place, back on floral versus fruit, not settled into warmer tone range yet.  It's good, and it's complex, but compared to the other it might seem a little muted.  It can't really be the "in-between" timing and fermentation transition concern; no matter how young or old these are this seems slightly less fermentation-transitioned than the other four year old version.  

Fall material versions can come across as less intense; an input like that might come into play.  That's also one way that LBZ material can turn up in remotely accessible or affordable forms, along with origin being just a little outside that narrower village area range, or from somewhere else entirely.

Moychay LBZ:  warmth and depth picks up in this; it's different trying it brewed this fast.  This may "brew out" relatively quickly, given how fast it got started, and that I'm not using that much leaf for this, maybe about 5 grams, or it could even be 4.

This is much more whole-leaf compared to the other two versions.  That should reduce astringency in this version, and increase it in the others (relatively), muting intensity a little in this, and adding more challenging aspect range to the others.  They're all pretty approachable though; that makes me think the other two must not be very young material, along with the flavor tones being warm, brewed leaf darkening some, and liquid color not being lighter.  

This Moychay version is quite dark in brewed liquid appearance, on the red side.  That's actually a little unfamiliar, a sheng of this age turning that red.  It's been here in Bangkok for some years (3?), and that pushes the pace of transition.  Still the brewed liquid color is reddish, not so far off how black teas appear, not just darkened, more gold or onto between golden and amber instead.

A bit more warm mineral tone and astringency edge seems to emerge, possibly a function of the infusion transition cycle, and also related to brewing this round faster.  It would seem odd if that was it's best flavor range already passed through, while the Xigui version is still dropping out an early smoke aspect.  I'll give all three between 15 and 20 seconds next round, to get back to a more conventional infusion strength (for me, I guess that I mean).

Xigui #4:  there is some darkened area on the wet leaves; that smoke seems to relate to char from the leaf actually being singed a little.  It may not drop out then, if it's not from smoke contact, instead from the leaf being slightly burned.

It's not dropping out.  There's good sweetness and pleasant aspect range beyond it, it's just harder for me to identify in that context.  This tea does seem to be good for quality level; feel is full and rich, and overall character is refined.  I suppose it would be complex floral tones that I'd be going on more about.  Complexity is probably pretty good too; there are layers of different aspects present.  If someone is fine with a touch of smoke, or even enjoys that, this could still seem exceptional.  

I can appreciate it as pleasant to drink but it's throwing off evaluating it related to it being a better than average quality sheng version, or related to describing other aspects in detail.

JE LBZ:  this is getting even better.  Richness is more intense; overall complexity and balance is better.  Intensity isn't necessarily a strength, but there's a lot going on, across a very positive range.  

Dried fruit mixes with other layers of aspects, or other range, making it harder to isolate.  That's along the line of dried mango, combining with limited warm floral range, warm mineral, and some spice tones.  Some bitterness and a rich feel, including a little dryness, adds to the overall complexity.  The final effect is pleasant, refined, and complex, just not necessarily as intense as it might be.

Moychay LBZ:  this is evolving, changing.  Dried fruit range is similar but different; spice range is just as pronounced, or even more so, but again it's changing.  Dried fruit had reminded me of dried longan, and a touch more savory edge is showing up in this, maybe shifting towards dried tamarind.  Spice range is different, in a way that's hard to describe.  

There's still a catchy set of complex, approachable flavors present, related to the earlier set.  Maybe a touch of warm menthol joins the rest, like a less edgy version of mint, or menthol.  Or camphor, plenty of people might move directly on to suggesting, given how standard interpretations go, but to me it's more like an extra hint of wintergreen mint.  

This definitely isn't fading yet; interesting transitions are still occurring.  Five rounds is so much tea though, 15 of these little cups; that might have to do.  I'll need another break just to get to that next round.

Xigui #5:  smoke input is lightening, balancing out a bit.  This is pretty good tea, evident in the layers of inputs, the complex flavors and rich feel.  It's funny how that one smoke input can really alter and redefine the rest.  As it is this is a good example of a pretty good tea, but a lot of distinctiveness drops out for natural focus shifting to that one aspect.

JE LBZ:  also a very pleasant, rich, complex, and refined tea.  It giving up range in terms of intensity and novel flavor inputs stands out a lot more in comparison with the other LBZ version; it would seem better without that comparison.  It'll be interesting to hear the age of this tea, to see how that input led to this result.

Moychay LBZ:  a little brighter, more complex and novel in flavor range, also warmer in a sense, with warm mineral tones and rich feel supporting the rest, and just as refined as the other.  It's hard to not conclude that it's better.  It may be fading just a little already, having spent a lot of early intensity relatively quickly.  

Something unusual seemed to have been happening with how this age-transitioned; it seems as much like it's slightly oxidized as it seems fermented.  The color is a part of that, it being reddish, but a warm tone range reminds me of black tea character.  Quite often that comes up in lower quality sheng that's not made properly, which doesn't have good aging potential, and ends up tasting woody before it's even fully aged.  This isn't like that.  It's exceptional, and aging to be just as pleasant as when young, just in a different novel character.

Maybe the hot and humid Bangkok conditions pushed it through a much faster transition cycle than 4 1/2 years would usually enable?  Maybe it being maocha enabled that to go even faster, so that this is as transitioned as 7 or 8 year old versions stored under different conditions would experience?  It's possible that tea stored in cool and dry conditions, tightly pressed, would change less in a decade, and that the form those changes would take would vary.  It's quite good as it is though, the main thing.  

It seems at least possible that this lost some 15 to 20 year cycle transition potential along the way, that it's not in the right place to keep improving for more than another decade as a result.  Only time would really tell.  It seems likely that the other LBZ version would fade over the next 3 or 4 years, in addition to changing to include more warm flavor tones.

Conclusions:

The missing input in those notes had been the age of the two two Jip Eu versions (produced by the Si Da Ming Pu Company; mentioned earlier in the description, but not something I've been repeating).  It's from 2018; it was two years older than the LBZ version used for comparison, 6 years old now.

It makes sense that it's a bit less intense, related to having more time to age-transition, but that wasn't necessarily completely evident in the other character.  Level of transition seems pretty comparable, in relation to markers like color of leaves, color of brewed liquid, and range of flavor tones, or maybe slightly less transitioned.  That's not so unusual; the tea was compressed instead, and probably spent a good bit of time in Yunnan, maybe essentially the whole time.  Bangkok climate changes tea fast.  

I've been running in 90+F / 30+C high humidity (70% or so) conditions lately (in Bangkok), and it only cools down to 90 F / 30 C in the evening.  It's not the rainy season but it rains sometimes, and it's crazy how humid it is at other times anyway.  It's hot and humid for tea and for people.

It's hard to place why the Jip Eu LBZ would be that much less intense, but it had good complexity and good positive character, so that only stood out as much in the direct comparison.  Maybe it was autumn harvest material; that would make a difference.  One thing I didn't emphasize much in the review description was that the broken leaf character of the two Jip Eu versions should have caused much higher astringency experience; that should've changed the feel, related to the other.  Maybe the extra aging time offset that, without causing other changes that made it seem significantly older (but then 2 more years isn't that much older).

I can't say anything about value related to these, since I don't know any pricing ranges, but I could guess a little about quality level.  For the Xigui that's problematic because to me a bit of smokey character defined that tea experience, and to me that's not really a conventional input for better teas, as it had been more normal quite awhile back, related to how sheng often was a decade ago.  

That leaves considering which of the LBZ versions seemed better.  I suppose the Moychay version did.  It was more whole leaf (not necessarily better taken alone, but that can tie to more positive aspects), and a bit more complex and intense, and both had comparable positive character.  It was favorable that the Moychay LBZ expressed a bit more dried fruit, more supporting spice range, and then either a little mint or camphor.

The Jip Eu LBZ was well worth experiencing though.  If it was selling for a moderate price, maybe even beyond $1 a gram, given how "moderate" can be relative, then it seems worth trying out.  

Things shift for me related to trying a pleasant 10 gram--or so; about that--coin of exceptional tea versus buying a 200 gram small cake of one.  $10 is good bit to spend on two tea sessions, but not much for trying exceptional tea (not that I know the pricing for these; I don't).  There's just absolutely no way I'd spend $200 on a 200 gram cake, of just about anything.  If I earned three times as much income and my son's upcoming college education expenses seemed more sorted out maybe, but as things stand spending $90 on a standard size cake is already plenty.

It was really nice trying these.  It leads me to think about how these are in comparison with the last two sets of pretty good sheng I've been trying, the last two reviews, but it's too much to go into.  Sheng can vary a lot in character, and be quite positive in different ways, for different reasons.  That Tea Mania Mengsong from last week's review was pretty good (a 2014, with lots of variation in probably aging changes and related character), but this Moychay LBZ is in a really nice place now, and it's that much more novel, setting aside simple pleasantness of aspects.

where I run; the lights make it nice

the view at work, with a screen adding a digital effect