Is specialty tea interest now pay to win?

 

This will take some unpacking.  Of course every hobby interest involves expense, and contributing more towards that enables having a broader range of experiences.

Let's back up a little.  Familiar to many, "pay to win" is a reference to online games being free to play, but then being set up so that you can buy the extra characters or functions enabling success at the games.  Set up one way it just short-cuts a lot of extra "grinding," earning those characters and functions through play, and extended further only people paying the game developers can win.  

My son extended this reference not so long ago, when we were viewing the aurora borealis (northern lights) in Western PA.  Faint versions of those look like a wispy luminous cloud, with no color, while photos look green or pink.  My sister's relatively new IPhone version took fantastic photos, that looked completely different, vibrant and layered in textures; northern lights experience became "pay to win," without spending $1000 on a better, more modern phone your pictures and impression was hazy.

Nothern Lights in PA, borrowed from a family member's FB post

the low-res version

Right away people long into tea will see where this is going, and conclude that tea has always been like this, that the basic experience is open to people who aren't spending a lot, and then other levels were always reserved for others.  That works.  In commenting on a Reddit thread about sheng pu'er sources I summarized how I was framing these ideas:

Farmerleaf is fine, based on comment input here, but the last cake I bought from them, a few years ago, was in the $80 to 90 range, so quality needs to be quite high for that to be a good value. it was ok, that cake, but I also stopped ordering from them then, because of that price range.

I've been buying sheng from Viet Sun most recently, and their pricing just climbed to that range too. It's a normal pattern; vendors build up demand, keep sourcing slightly better material products, then max out on pricing at the industry standard level, around $100 per standard cake now [357 gram size], with more interesting sounding versions at $120. Yunnan Sourcing did the same.

Tea Mania is a good source for finding an exception; their Lucky Bee Yiwu line costs less (not gushu material, which is as well, if that requires spending over 50 cents a gram on sheng). Rishi is worth a look, and they'll never get mentioned in a place like this. they've been collecting SE Asian sheng for awhile, and sell cakes for much less than that near $100 range. Style and quality can be inconsistent outside Yunnan, but that's true in Yunnan too, and plenty of tea moves from places like Myanmar, Vietnam, and Laos to become Yunnan sheng.

Factory tea is the other less expensive option, but that's a lot of gambling, since quality will vary, and typical style range often requires more aging to be approachable. Chawang Shop had been a good source for that, and for good value in-house range, and King Tea Mall might be a good example of a market-style outlet now.

That was downvoted, of course; sheng pu'er drinkers are supposed to be open to paying to explore teas.  Now subscription models provide another main channel for this; you are either in or out of the in-group if you opt to try the same teas monthly, for $40 or so monthly, or whatever that is now, surely varying.

Lots of tea experience, shared through social media group participation, is framed as discussing a lot of what one vendor sells.  Discord servers about tea are mainly about that, per my experience.  You ante up to buy a good bit of that vendor's range or else you wouldn't have much to discuss.

To some extent this was always the case.  A decade ago people discussed tea experiences on Steepster and Tea Chat, and you either tried the teas people were talking about or else you weren't a part of that particular discussion.  Comments on text based blogs were similar.  So it was all always pay to win?

The amounts have increased.  Some of that is inflation; everything costs more than a decade ago.  It can be hard to map cost to type and quality level, to see if it evens out.  A decade ago people drank factory sheng, which would tend to cost $25 to 40 then (per 357 gram cake), but then "white label" gushu, more exclusive, higher quality, different style versions were already well on towards $1 a gram.  If anything those aren't matching inflation for increase in cost; that has leveled off, or stayed the same.

There is a common range of $100-120 better-quality, more naturally grown products (supposedly) available now, often specified as from a narrow area origin source, or at times they're just blends.  It's not the same tea that the factory versions were, so you can't say that pricing inflation marked up the same product range by 2 1/2 times.  Main changes relate to quality expectations, and type preference, and to the new forms of these groups.  

more on this shift in a TeaDB summary post (also mentioning quality and style have changed)

There aren't many other new online group forms; one tea app seems to have pushed through to create something of a community, based around experiencing teas the app owners sell, and other functions, but that's an anomaly.  Facebook groups have went dead, for the most part.  Discussion of Tik Tok promoting tea interest and information narrows down to Jesse's Teahouse, which is for people new to tea, who would probably seek out better value later.  

Youtube never became the information source or social collection point it could have.  A few hundred channels must relate to tea there, but the Tea DB blog and Mei Leaf vendor site are examples of how much of an exception well-followed groups are.  Farmerleaf produces good information content; that and a Discord server support them cultivating a group following, along with the tea being good.

To be clear Reddit subs (groups) aren't supporting this social grouping by purchasing pattern theme well.  There is r/tea and r/puer, and one gongfu oriented alternative is more or less just getting started, and a tea pictures group.

It might seem that I'm implying that this is a bad thing, that I'd want to return to the good old days when drinking $30-40 factory tea cakes was a norm, or just trying Dan Cong / Wuyi Yancha oolong range was, versus bragging online about getting into more rare versions.  But you can still do that (adjusting some for inflation).  The main downside, related to that factory sheng category, is that most of those teas are better after 20 years of aging transition, and newer styles drink better when younger.  It might also seem that I'm promoting the ongoing experience of lack, FOMO, by reviewing teas that vendors send, or what I buy, which is more limited.  It could seem like I'm advocating trying ever-higher quality levels, or every rare type or origin area of tea out there.  I don't see it that way, but it's a natural interpretation.  

It was a nice theme having so many people not necessarily brand new to tea, but new, discussing it on Steepster and Tea Chat, or later on Facebook groups.  A mixed-author, general information source like TChing showed how this exploration was mainstream then, as Cha Dao did before that (both of which are essentially dead now).  Many people's tea interest seemed to mature to them just drinking what they like, not discussing or learning so much.

I think part of the reason I dislike this general trend, interest form and exposure separating into more or less complete by expense level, is because it's such a dominant trend in consumption-based modern societies.  Everything we do separates out by what you spend, as much as by any other filter (exposure, expertise, etc.).

I also run, and people with that interest separate into the groups of people who do or don't own a lot of gear, and pay for extra types of group inclusions.  Races can cost well over $100 to run in, but someone might spend thousands by the time they gear up and travel, or at least $1000.  Owning 2 or 3 pair of running shoes isn't remotely enough for normal-form participation buy-in, never mind what is most functional.  To actually be competitive one might hire a coach, and take up extensive "supplementation" strategies.  Stopping short of PED use one might still buy all sorts of electrolyte gels, protein products, sports drinks, and whatever else.

three different categories of running shoes you need to buy, it seems

People could still dabble in tea and not spend all that much, or compete through spending, and someone could go out and buy one decent pair of shoes and run.

To be completely clear and open I've been influenced quite a bit by Buddhism.  That's a story for another time, with more about that on the way, but the short version is that we can emphasize simple experiences and basic social connections, and reduce rather than expand frameworks for defining ourselves, and limit emphasis on consumption, and other status markers.  This reduction of emphasis on consumption and status can work better; instead of living with even more of an experience of lack you actually get rid of the framework that grounds that, and experience more contentment and fulfillment.

I think a lot of those older tea enthusiasts, discussing interest in Tea Chat and FB groups, have simply moved on to the next interests (and then the ones after that).  But maybe some landed on this conclusion, that keeping it simpler could work better, not competing with others related to what they routinely consume.  

On the opposing side discussion about tea works well centered around common experiences, versus abstract background knowledge, so people drinking the same teas is functional.  Of course there is still a completely different opposing side, about not needing that commonality or social positioning.

The other side of this

Thinking it through further, most of this is about issues related to sheng pu'er, which has been changing form related to what is available, and to keeping up with what people discuss on Discord servers.  Or on Instagram, or wherever.  That's not what most people probably experience.

I looked up the Steepster posts on what people spend on tea in a year (which oddly still get posted annually, even though Steepster discussions are good and dead now), and it has been staying the same.  People posting there average $600 to 1000 per year, over the last half dozen years, even though inflation has spiked the cost of most things over the past 2 or 3 years.  They must be holding it at that level, seeing that as reasonable, and making adjustments to keep it in check, or maybe belt-tightening reduces the annual adjusted spending a little.

That's still $50 to $80+ per month on tea; a good bit.  Of course people discussing trying the latest new thing, buying $100+ sheng cakes regularly, or participating in more than one monthly subscription, are probably spending well beyond that.

I don't really blame vendors for using "fear of missing out" as a marketing tactic, encouraging this kind of group-think, setting up social media channels where it evolves naturally, and promoting the latest thing as something you really need to try, or you are left out.  It's just marketing; of course they are continually trying to sell you something.  People choose to respond to it or else they don't.

It's hard to generalize if an average in the Steepster-report on annual spending is a suitable norm, something like $70 a month for tea.  $2.50 a day?  If you are living on a $10 an hour salary (in the US) that's a good bit, or if pressures from demands keep your free spending limited, but for many that's trivial enough.

It's the "winning" concept that's problematic; it implies a social aspect of self-identification and also competition.  You can figure out how to buy a kilogram of tea for less than $100, or maybe a bit over if it's better tea, and shipping enters in, but it's not impressive to anyone to bring up drinking the same tea over and over in online discussion.  I bought a kg of tea for the first time earlier this year (1 1/2, really), but ended up using most of it for gifts, since flavorful, interesting, approachable black tea makes for a great gift.

I suppose you do have to spend an average amount to compete with others in terms of your own routine exposure to better tea, but just drinking decent versions of it is something else.  I've written plenty on how to do that for relatively low expense here; maybe I'll get around to making up another post covering it again, in a more concise form.

Running shoe review: New Balance 880 and Fuel Cell Propel

 

I just bought two new running shoes, the New Balance 880s and their Fuel Cell Propel model (versions 14 and 4; Propel seems to be on 5 now, and the other is the most recent).  I've liked the other New Balance shoes I've been running in, an earlier 880 model, and multiple versions of a now-dated 1080 model.  

I tend to buy closing out versions of the old model, to keep cost low, so this won't work as a guide for what to buy of what just released.  There probably isn't much of a potential audience at all, since there wouldn't tend to be for shoe models that have been around, and this is a tea blog, and I'm not a running authority, of any kind.  Maybe some others will wonder what's up with running shoes now, which could be more relevant if they already run, in which case they'd probably have a pretty good idea.

For awhile I was into watching some channels that do shoe reviews.  Which was odd, because I couldn't afford to buy essentially everything they described, so that didn't last.  My favorites were Kofuzi's channel (some guy who reviews shoes, who is personable and relatable), and Believe in the Run, a whole channel of different people who are also like that.

It was interesting hearing the theory, what people are looking for in better shoes, and a more diverse range of them than I'll ever experience.  It covered foam types, and thickness, and plenty of other design aspects, about the soles, the upper (fabric part), and parts you normally wouldn't think about, like types of laces, the tongue, and the cuff padding, the opening part.  If you just happen to own a couple of decent pairs of shoes all of that isn't all that relevant, until you want to replace them, but someone might find it interesting anyway.  I did, for a limited time.

How that relates to these shoes

The 880s seem like basic, traditional design running shoes.  Maybe I should start further back than that though, about themes related to different companies.  I've only owned one other pair of Asics (Novablast), in the last few years of running, and I've only ramped up distance and intensity in the last 2 1/2 years or so.  I might run 20 miles a week now, and more typically not quite that; not so much.  

It's my impression that New Balance is well-regarded as shoe producers go, making a range of different kinds of versions.  That part runs long, how many categories of running shoes there are now.  There are racing-oriented models, a range of those, trail shoes, and then a broad range of different training versions, designed for running at different speeds, or for feeling different in different ways.  Amount of support is another variable, but that kind of simplifies down to some people needing additional support for a tendency to not run "neutrally," for their foot to roll or to contact more on the outside or inside.  

Amount and type of cushion is more of a main factor.  Lots of versions are designed with a lot of midsole, quite well-cushioned, a trend Hoka was instrumental in making quite mainstream some years back.  Now shoe designers would work around following that theme, or else going against it, in different models.  Use of carbon fiber plates has been big for awhile, mostly in racing shoe versions, to return energy in a vaguely spring-like function, but now as a part of expensive training shoes too.  By expensive I mean that lots of running shoe range costs $150 to 200 now, with most of the range under $250.  Maybe that sounds like a lot, or maybe it doesn't, given that fairly ordinary versions tend to start at $140 anyway (on the New Balance website Black Friday sale the 880 is discounted from $140 to $110).  

People cutting corners buying older versions, like me, might try to spend around or under $100, making it a challenge to buy what they actually like most and still spend very little.  $110 isn't too bad, but on a clearance sale in Bangkok I paid less.  

One might wonder if shoe technology isn't mature now anyway, related to the model-year issue.  Running became popular in the late 1970s, and I owned what seemed like well-developed but basic Nike running shoes in the early 80s (an early Pegasus version, a line that's on something like the 41st or 42nd version now).  They keep updating foam technology, and the plate thing is new, and beyond that maybe they are just changing things around as much as improving them.  

To hear shoe reviewers describe it all the new shoes are always new and different, year after year.  They have to use more and more refined, altered language to describe that, and they're working from a shared knowledge base relating to the last 100 popular shoe versions.  It gets a little silly, people commenting to online content posts about comparing the half dozen closely related shoes that they own, or sets of shoes that go together well.  There's nothing inherently wrong with owning a dozen pair of running shoes, that you currently wear, but it seems to me that at this point it's mostly about owning stuff, not running.

Getting back to it, New Balance makes basic, well-designed, high quality shoes, and plenty of range that's not so basic.  Of course Nike didn't disappear, and Asics is another main player, and there are plenty of others.  It's funny how the general style of those shoes I'd been using is so different, their older Novablast version (they're two more models along now; maybe they're much better), and the two older New Balance shoes I had used, and these two newer versions.  Those Novablast were quite light, made from very light foam and cloth material, with a thick foam sole, designed to emphasize a sort of trampoline-like function.  

I guess in a sense the whole theme of the Propel shoe is taking the next step; a plate--a plastic one, not carbon fiber based--uses that plate and other foam to more literally create a spring and lever mechanism.  Does it actually propel you, and "return energy?"  Maybe a little.  Maybe not in the sense of the mechanics emulating a spring, which sort of would occur in those higher end racing shoes, but to a very limited extent it probably does catch and return a very limited amount of that energy.  The feel would be the thing though, not a mechanical advantage.  If it feels comfortable, and lively, and seems to encourage a smoother or faster running stride then that's great.  I suppose it sort of does?

The 880s feel softer; it's as if there is more foam catching your weight, dampening that impact.  I'm not sure if it's just my subjective impression but it feels more pronounced in the front of the foot.  It's at least possible that there is more foam there.  The 1080s I run in--an older version, mind you, so I'm not describing their state of the art newest version--have a much different form construction, with more emphasized "rocker" design, built to emphasize your foot's rolling motion as you catch your weight and roll of the front part.  

Is that good?  It might be that any one design, which emphasizes any running mechanics, might work well or badly for people depending on how they happen to run, or how their foot is shaped.  Permit me another tangent.

Long, long ago when I first ran I competed in cross country, back in the 80s.  I wasn't good; this isn't going there.  I thought since I wasn't that good I could duplicate my old race times now with sufficient practice, if I ran consistently for years now, but it turns out that I was fast enough that it's hard to do that.  I could run 5k trail races in around 19 minutes.  Under 18 minutes might place in a race back then, if the field was weak enough, so nowhere near that, but it's hard to run 5k in 20 minutes in your 50s, apparently, unless you train directed towards doing that, and I really don't.

Back to the point, the conventional running stride looks like people normally think of one, a loping sort of affair, and back then that was more or less how people seemed to run.  Then as an option people could use more of a shuffling gait, which was known of then, but didn't appeal to many people yet, and didn't have obvious advantages.  Later it seemed to turn out that for recreational runners, as I now am, even for those who are much more serious about it than I am, variations of a shuffling form seemed to convey some mechanical advantage, at some paces; it could be quite efficient.  Someone could easily bang into the ground a bit hard using a more conventional form, maybe in a formerly conventional heel-strike motion.  As you train more, adding volume and intensity, that brings up wear problems for your joints.

It seems like this is heading towards me drawing broad conclusions about ideal running forms, or more ideal patterns, but it's really not.  The point here is that people run in completely different ways; mechanics vary a lot.  The same person probably runs using very different mechanics at different speeds, typically, but even beyond that there is plenty of variation.  So it's back to different shoes working well for different people.

Skipping ahead, to which shoes work well for me, the 880s, which I've described as a supporting, basic, stable, old-school sort of form, or the Propel is designed to try to catch your weight and use some of that energy, if that's even possible.  Or at least they pass on a feel that could be interpreted as such, "lively."  Generally all running shoes are on the light side now; there are lots of minor differences, but producers have been changing around design features and materials for awhile, with an eye towards that.

They're both fine.  I always did like the older 1080s version I used because that odd design form, that really seems to try to work along with your running mechanics, maybe even to alter them, seemed comfortable to me.  The older and newer 880s weren't so far off that, they just seem to interact less with how you are running, just catching and supporting your foot.  The beat-up older version I use to walk in now work really well for that purpose, for that reason; it's as if the ground itself was well structured for walking.  But then the old Asics Novablast always felt like walking on a wrestling mat instead; I suppose that's nice.

It may be that if I ran at different paces, faster, I'd see more of a difference, and preference would shift by varying speed and mechanics patterns.  I've not had great luck with that.  I change how I run all the time, and how I train, and at one point I was pushing a lot harder for faster one-km sections at the ends of runs, getting down to 5:45 being normal for 1 or 2 (so still not very fast).  Now I tend to not do that, and I'm back to running most at 6 1/2 minute kilometer pace.  

I just broke 6 minutes for one km on a recent outing, and ran two consecutive one right at that pace.  Those are exceptions, but I'm probably due for shift in pacing.  My running mechanics still won't change much; shifting from 6 1/2 minutes to 5:45 still isn't bumping the pace enough for that.

It's not much of a testimonial, is it?  NB 880s or Fuel Cell Propel are both fine, but their 1080s or a lot of the Asics line probably also are.  

Kofuzi or the Believe in the Run reviews would fill in the next 2 or 3 levels of details, and offer 100 different shoe alternatives, including a few that are most comparable.  It's interesting that they're all made of different types of foam, designed at different heel and forefoot heights, I just haven't looked that up for these, even though ostensibly this is a shoe review.  The NB site listing, that I checked price on, only mentioned "the drop," the difference between heel and forefoot, but one was for Propel v5 (8 and 9 mm; doesn't mean that much to me).

I do love the shoes.  The 880s feel that little bit more stable on your foot, but I'm not concerned about turning an ankle in the other ones, the Propel version.  They feel like you might be able to run 15 or 20k in them, or walk around in them half a day after a run.  The extra foam depth--I think there is more--and minor adjustment to mechanical form might make the updated 1080 version even better for a really long run, but the Propel feel like they could handle picking up the pace a bit.  

Probably if spending $200 on shoes isn't an issue the rest of the Asics range might have a slight edge, depending on preference.  They're swinging for the fence in terms of evolving design forms and foam development, or at least that seems likely to me.  I'd know better if I'd bought a few more pair of their shoes.

If someone reads all this and considers putting it into practice related to using shoes just to walk, or to stand around in, a main consideration is how they feel in terms of fit (or related to running, of course).  Width is important, and the style matching your foot.  That "rocker" / curved bottom sole could be a huge benefit for someone that it suits, or it could be off-putting.  Shoes can break in a bit to feel more comfortable later but how well it feels right away is an important sign.  I've went this far without mentioning arch support, or saying anything about heel cuff padding or different tongue designs, but it all works together, and how it seems to feel sweeps in most of all that.

A running friend recently mentioned that per his understanding of conventional wisdom runners would have at least two pair to offset the shoes reinforcing slight differences in running mechanics.  That sounds right.  Beyond my level of interest and training probably more would be better, but early on just owning a couple would do.

Tea Tracks 2006 and 2007 Qiao Mu Bulang sheng pu'er

 

I'm reviewing more aged sheng from Tea Tracks, that vendor friend based in the Netherlands.

I'll include their description of these after writing notes, the usual process.  They're presented as "Li Ming," which must be the producer.  There might be a more local source area cited, but typically that doesn't mean much to me; at least Bulang is familiar.  

Sheng being 17 or 18 years old is also familiar.  Plenty of people drink lots of much better versions than I get to, regularly, but I've tried a decent amount of aged sheng.  I own a half dozen cakes older than that; not much, but some.

I was just thinking about how I really do minimize purchasing and keep it all basic, related to not buying any tea for Black Friday.  I might've not ordered any since January, and haven't bought any in shops since then, for myself, maybe beyond an extra Xiaguan tuo somewhere along the way, and tea to give away.  I've tried something like 100 teas vendors were kind enough to share this year, so that mixes it up a bit.  

I've been going back through re-trying the few dozen versions of sheng I own varying amounts of; I just tried some from a "new" cake today, probably a roughly 6 year old Jing Mai version, but I'd have to look that up to know (labeling from different producer sources can be more or less clear).

One of these versions is gushu, the other isn't (older plant material, sometimes identified as over 100 years old, but that could vary).  Qiao Mu relates to them being more natural growth produced, I think, a tea farm allowed to remain in a more natural state, not strict monoculture, but not a forest.

Bu Lang 2007 (357 gram cake lists for 81.75 Euro, $86.50 USD)

This is a semi aged tea from the Bu Lang mountain. As many older productions it has a smokey smell and taste during the first 2-3 steeps. This tea has been dry stored in Kunming and still has quite some bitterness and some astringency. 

This tea is made from tall tea trees that are in Chinese called Qiao Mu (乔木)... 

...Li Ming (黎明, daybreak) is a rather large state owned tea producer that makes Pu Era tea under the label Ba Jiao Ting (八角亭, Octagonal Pavilion). This producer serves a wide spectrum of teas. You can find lower quality plantation tea as well as high quality tea from older trees and tea gardens. 

Taste:  A bit smokey taste in the beginning which turns into tried fruit with a somewhat heavy body.

Trees:  Larger trees

Origin:  Bu Lang Mountain, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan, China

Harvest:  Spring 2007

So maybe Qiao Mu really relates to plant age, and I'm remembering wrong?  I'll pass on reviewing that further this time.  That does mention dry storage in Kunming, which was pretty obvious from these seeming like well under 10 years of aging transitioned versions.  I wrote these notes before looking up that listing and it's a main running theme in the comments.

The 2006 / gushu version isn't listed on the site; it must have sold out.  It would've been interesting to see the price, and the pricing difference, but it doesn't matter so much now, since that's not available.  But due to being curious I looked it up on past Tea Tracks site pages, on the Wayback archive machine, from 2022, here.  That was selling for 170 Euro then ($180 USD now); gushu pricing can be up there.

Review:

Li Ming Bulang Qiao Mu 2007 (so not gushu):  there's quite a bit of smoke.  One of the leaves is more scorched than the rest, and it doesn't take much of that to add a charred note.  I threw that one out, and the rest might settle some in relation to that input over the first few rounds.  Smoke contact or limited charring of leaves was more common 17 years ago; higher end producers avoid that more effectively now, and it's even been resolved in lower range factory teas, for the most part.  Producers are on to refining other considerations, processing steps.

This seems fine beyond that, but I'll skip the aspects list until next round.  It's a little strong; I let the first round go long (30 seconds) to clear through the early infusion start issues, to speed it along, and avoid commenting that it doesn't taste like much yet.

Li Ming Bulang Qiao Mu gushu 2006:  no smoke, that I'm noticing.  Being brewed slightly too strong isn't doing this any favors, but it holds up ok to that.  It's not as astringent as it could be, but there is notable feel edge to this.  Of course flavors are warm in tone, just maybe not as warm as I'd expected for an 18 year old tea.  Maybe this was stored in a moderately cool and dry place, the opposite of where I live.  A shorter infusion time round next time will tell more of the story.

Li Ming 2007, #2:  smoke isn't exactly fading but it's balancing out some.  These really aren't all that age-transitioned, fermented, for being these ages.  You can see it in the leaf color, or taste it.  It's possible that I just drank a 7 year old sheng version that was more fermented this morning, which had spent most of that time here in Bangkok.

This is pretty good.  Bitterness isn't gone, transitioned to gentler warmer and deeper tones.  There are some of those but the mix with the younger character aspect range.  This might be relatively fully transitioned in another decade, based on experiencing the same storage conditions.  I think more balanced, moderate humidity and temperature is better than the rushed conditions here, in general, but I suppose outcome would vary by all of the inputs together, also relating to the tea character.  This isn't at the most natural place for drinking this now, but it's pretty far along, so within 5 more years in typical pu'er-enthusiast controlled storage it would make more sense.

2006 gushu:  it's a little better for lacking any smoke input (or significant amount), and flavor range is a little heavier, deeper.  Feel is moving towards a rich sappy character, but it still has plenty of younger edge to it.  You can see where this is headed for more complete transition easier; the other is that extra bit "greener."  Bitterness mixes with warm mineral tone, and a feel edge that seems to connect with something along the line of green wood range.  Sheng that's prepared badly ends up tasting like wood in a different sense; here I'm using that as a placeholder for a range that's hard to describe.  This is standard character sheng, above average even, so that wood-tone is more aromatic, like cedar, leaning towards spice.  

This seems to have great potential to keep shifting, for that bitterness to drop out, and plenty of pleasant, complex flavors to emerge, but it might take longer than 5 years for that to happen.  7 or 8 more years is relatively short-term in relation to sheng time-frames.  I'll describe different flavor aspects as these transition over a few more rounds, but their potential will probably be the story, not their pleasantness now.

Bitterness, feel structure, and overall intensity is a lot to take in, for both, even as very short infusions.  I'll try one more round and break for some neutral food and drinking plenty of water.

2007 #3:  smoke is balancing in an even more pleasant way.  Sweetness and other flavor range picks up; I can do more of a list.  Bitterness and a green-wood sort of edge is still dominant, so the rest is what stands out beyond that.  Warm tones include more aromatic spice range, towards incense spice (a pretty broad category; even if I was more familiar with that range it's picking out the third most dominant flavors at that point).  It's interesting experiencing this much bitterness in tea switched over to this warm a tone range, seemingly halfway through that change.

2006 gushu:  again the warmer, milder, slightly more complex flavor range is a welcome change.  Again the overall intense experience is a bit much, related to it being too much at one time.  This really needs another decade to settle.  Sometimes I do drink Xiaguan tuo versions that are way too young, "only" a dozen years old, to experience that blast of astringency and bitterness, but it's still clear the tea isn't at its best yet.  The spice range in this is especially promising, but more as what this might evolve to be.  It includes aromatic spice like cedar or incense, bark spices, but it could evolve to include more root spice range, more like ginseng.

These might relax and settle more through another 3 or 4 infusions, but I'd expect more of the same, in general.  Related to my own tea-experience preferences I definitely wouldn't buy these teas to drink now, but they have good potential for later on.  

That tea I drank this morning, that I mentioned, a 6 or 7 year old Jing Mai version (I think) was quite faded in intensity compared to these, and not bitter at all.  That's fine for drinking it now, or it will have a more fully transitioned character in another 2 or 3 years, much sooner than these, probably related to storage input, but also tied to initial character.  I suspect that tea's best days were behind it, that it might not have made sense to keep it around to age it, for it going so dead for flavor, but these two teas seem much more suitable for aging.

2007 #4:  smoke is much lighter, integrated with the rest, no longer a dominant aspect.  Greener vegetal tones (towards green wood) are also becoming better balanced by warmer and sweeter range.  This tea version is pretty good; complexity is ok, feel is nice, there's a depth to it.  That flavor aspect range people would have mixed impressions of, probably; it could shift and be more positive with more aging, warmer, and even better without that vegetal range input.

2006:  this really seems to be at a tipping point, having left behind that harsher, more astringent, "green wood" range, but still with moderate bitterness, and still switching over to warmer tones.  Those include warm mineral, cedar wood, and aromatic spice.  There's some early promise of dried fruit range, jujube, or Chinese date, barely showing through now, but that could pick up quite a bit over even a couple more years.  This tea still needs time though; it would be a shame to drink straight through it at this stage.

2007 #5:  not so different than last round, but the slow, incremental shift to include less smoke, greater depth and flavor complexity, and more rich feel continues.  Aftertaste experience is pleasant, the way this carries over.  It should be much better later, after it transitions more through more aging.

2006:  the two are more similar now, but this is still better, across all the dimensions I just mentioned for the other.  It will also be better once it ferments just a bit more.  That really may take a decade instead of 5 years, and that would probably depend a lot on storage conditions as an input.

Conclusions:

The gushu version, the tea that's no longer available, was a good bit better.  Beyond the smoke input just a bit more fermentation might've been a main difference, and that tends to even out over time.  Or maybe the character was much better in other ways; it can be hard comparing versions that are in different places for aging transition.  For being one year apart in age they should've been quite close, related to that one factor; different inputs could've caused them to seem different.

Smoke in tea can fade over time, but this one has had awhile for that to occur already (17 years).  It should keep fading, and since it mostly dropped out within the first few infusions--not completely, but mostly--it might seem like less of a concern later, when this is more fully aged.

Some people could like that smoke input.  In general it's interpreted as a flaw, but how one relates to it still relates to preference.

In one sense this seems like a good value for partly aged sheng, for the one still available.  Even it being stored in a cooler and dryer environment I don't see as negative; I think teas rushing through transition here in Bangkok, in the hottest and wettest possible conditions, is not necessarily positive, beyond the process going faster.  Heavier, mustier flavors can result; it's not all good.  There's a vague idea out there that dry storage can couple with other slightly off flavor range, a flatness, sourness, or cardboard sort of note, but it's hard to separate other issues related to a limited range of main vendors' storage from dryness and cool conditions as main causes.

11 years of blogging; perspective on tea culture

 

There's no compelling reason to pass on my opinion on tea themes now, just because it's back to the time of year I started blogging, but I miss writing beyond review scope here.

Rather than fill in more on how my experience has changed, since it hasn't much, I'll limit this to some thoughts on themes that define where tea culture and the tea industry is right now.

tea culture in the US:  it's not really moving forward, compared to where it was 5 years ago.  If anything a good-sized, but still limited, group of people exploring tea through social media discussion and online content consumption have went quiet.  It's natural, learning and exploring, then seeing that new range as just normal, and learning less.  Social media groups are changing, and some are dying; I'll add other sections on that.  The tea itself, preferences and options, hasn't really changed.

tea culture in Thailand:  in some ways Thai cultural development themes mirror and lag behind the US, and in others they don't.  In both countries very few people being really into tea has continued, with many joining groups, in real life and in social media, but that also leveled off.  Small event functions finally started to work locally this year, one mall-based conference oriented event in Bangkok, that finally didn't also include coffee.  Better quality version production has finally made more of a start in Thailand, lagging behind Vietnam's progress, way behind original source countries like China, Japan, and Taiwan.

tea culture online:  not different than last year; Discord groups and Reddit sub participation picks up, and Facebook groups go quieter.  One main specialty tea FB group, Gong Fu Cha, is slightly more active than 2 or 3 years ago, but vendors drive the activity, so a lot of that is marketing.  New active members there tend to be relatively new to tea, so it's right back to where online discussions were 6 to 8 years ago, exploring new types, and working out which vendors are actually good sources.  

I don't actively discuss tea online that much, beyond sometimes answering questions on Reddit.  It's harder now for me to keep learning, and my peers in background and experience have talked enough, for the most part.  I moderate a FB tea group, International Tea Talk, but it's mostly dead now, evolved beyond it's more active phase, even though it has over 30,000 members.

FB groups can still work well for organizing local gatherings

tea sources:  a new wave of Chinese vendors is driving Western facing sales to "the West," or at least trying to.  Chen Sheng Hao, a pu'er producer, and Oriental Leaf, a mixed type reseller, work as good examples.  Or ITea World is an example of a positive form with some kinks still being worked out; they used free sample distribution to engage online discussion, overdoing it for final amount of feedback in the Reddit r/tea space.  Use of novel forms of sample sets also works for them, but then ironing out uniform quality is ongoing; some versions are better than others, so value is a bit all over the place.  Selling sample sets offsets that; people should be able to tell what is better and what they like best.

I see this development as a good thing, as a potential for competition for a very limited set of main Western vendors.  Some new sources, including Western options, are selling pretty mediocre tea at medium pricing levels, and some actually go beyond that, offering novel range and good value.  Jesse's tea house, a Tik Tok based vendor, has replaced Mei Leaf, a Youtube based vendor, for drawing criticism for selling overpriced and medium quality tea.  Both vendors do serve a positive industry role in marketing tea to a new audience, and raising awareness.  That seems to get missed in the specialty tea industry, that if all the vendors only try to capture the most of a small market it will never grow.  Running standard ads isn't the only way to spread awareness and raise demand; novel forms of events can build up both slowly, bit by bit.

producer issues:  Darjeeling has been suffering due to shifting costs and demand context for years, it seems, so that's not new, but eventually the last plantation will be owned by a corporation instead of a family there.  Chinese producers seem to do ok.  A dip in the Chinese economy poses challenges, but built-up demand in China and in the West has set a strong foundation for demand for them.  

Nothing is really new; no new push for organic / sustainability themes, no new product ranges, and nothing novel related to presentation forms (eg. new compressed styles, although some experimentation continues).  Using health claims for marketing seems relatively played out, which is interesting related to tea probably really being fairly healthy.

Trump and tariffs:  this is the newest concern; a new wave of import taxes may well increase the cost of tea in the US.  Or maybe not.  Since tea is barely produced in the US at all, with limited exceptions, this wouldn't make sense, given the drive to make US companies more competitive, but not everything Trump and Republicans do is supposed to make sense.  It would be strange to have tea drinkers shoulder more tax burden; it's too small a factor to make any real difference, and doesn't relate to the broader trade issues.  But it could come across as vindictive, which would be part of the point, to escalate opposition, in theory to other ongoing unfairness.  

I doubt it will change much.  Tea costing 10 to 20% more wouldn't be a welcome change but also not so significant.  A larger new tax would sting more.

new styles, origins, something new being popular:  it's going to get harder to know what trends even are with social media becoming quieter.  There hasn't been a hot new source region in years, as far as I know; Georgia seemed novel and promising some years ago, and Nepal long before that.  Sheng pu'er keeps sucking the air out of the room related to popular range.  Surely a broader, but still small, group of well-exposed sheng drinkers has moved on to appreciating different range, well-aged versions, good quality boutique styles, and so on.  South East Asian versions gain traction, over time.  

The standard list of vendors are probably doing slightly better year to year (Yunnan Sourcing, White 2 Tea, Crimson Lotus, and so on), but this doesn't change anything.

a hybrid style Greengold Georgian white / green tea, reviewed here

inflation as a factor in the US:  probably anyone earning in the lower half of incomes in the US is struggling a bit from price increases, especially over the last two years.  Most people already buying $100 sheng pu'er cakes probably weren't in that group.  It could serve as a barrier to larger scale entry to better tea, for some, but limited awareness was already working out like that.  Specialty tea never was positioned to couple with a broad cultural form shift, eg. to benefit as coffee and craft beer had before.  If anything those other trends getting old for people might be the next main wave for tea; those interests are fine for a long time, but lots of types of preference go in cycles.

what's next?:  it's never easy to tell.  I had always been concerned that multi-level marketing would make a mess within tea exposure, but that came and went quietly (Steepology, was that?).  Intuitively new solutions like automated marketing and sales based on drop-shipping should've already happened, but didn't.  Or kind of did, but didn't gain any traction.  Automatically created content made by people who know almost nothing about tea are just too easy to spot.  

Jesse's tea business shows how just being one short step ahead of the beginner learning curve can work, and it's odd that's not more of the norm.  But then the smallest tea businesses have always struggled, and it's not easy for most people to create high quality social media content, and then use that for effective marketing.

I think earlier producer-side development progress elsewhere might consolidate within the Western markets in a different form at some point.  Vietnam has been driving better tea production and vending for a few years, and options have broadened in places like Georgia, Darjeeling, and Assam.  There's always a brief window when a new origin area emerges when novel offerings and value are both exceptional, then when demand catches up it transitions to more standard priced range.  All that happens based on small, well-organized vendors transitioning to become medium sized.  

A large foreign vendor like Moychay, the Russian version of Yunnan Sourcing, sort of, has been poised to play a larger role in Western sales for years, having established an accessible branch in the EU in Amsterdam, but they're still not such a familiar name.  Growing local demand by building pleasant tea drinking spaces and holding events supports their business, it just doesn't drive international awareness.

No one is driving any industry change or expansion.  Blog writing, like this one, have lost a lot of following, and Youtube content never gained it back.  There are thousands of people showing photos of tea on Instagram, and hundreds of people selling tea event services and training, or probably that is thousands of people globally, counting events, education, and tourism oriented options.  It's still not changing much.  Few of us take up interests and lifestyle practices by deeply exploring and going all-in on novel themes like specialty tea.  More people just drink a little tea, often moving slowly from tea-bag flavored blends on to better loose versions of flavored blends.  It's fine, but per the perspective of the other kinds of tea enthusiasts it misses a lot of potential.

A broad group of people have normalized drinking decent tea, following most of the learning curve that they ever will.  That group is broad but very limited in overall scale.  Specialty tea may never "have its moment," in a scaled-up industry demand sense, but for them it already is, every day.

I'm not usually in pictures here, here with my family

the tastings are better with visitors

Tea fossils (cha hua shi) compared to cha gao (instant tea / resin)

 

cha gao left, tea fossils right

Some months back a friend passed on some tea samples, which included tea fossils, lumps of what looked a bit similar to cha gao, instant tea / tea resin, but not really the same.  I never tried them; somehow as I worked through the most interesting samples I never got to those.  I really thought it was a version of cha gao, which I've not had great results with in the past, but then I've not tried much of it.  

It turns out it's something else altogether, a variation of cha tou, or tea heads, the clumps that form when fermenting shou pu'er.  Or that's the claim in a Reddit discussion comment, here:

Cha Hua Shi (茶化石) literally means tea fossil. It, along with another similar product Sui Yi Zi (碎银子, lit: silver loose change) are members of this family of product known as Lao Cha Tou (老茶头, lit: old tea head). Supposedly these are produced during the wodui process to make ripe puer, where some tea dusts, gum (pectin?) coalesces into hard lumps that can't be disentangled. So it's basically ripe puer lumps.

However, the market is also full of fake ones that are produced from cheap ripe puer dust and artificially added gum to bind them into this form. I've heard a few opinions from Chinese tea circles to avoid these products due to the difficulty of differentiating real and fake ones. Nevertheless, I personally don't think it's any concern, it's more like a novelty product, and has lower value for money than legit ripe puer if you end up liking the taste.

Interesting!  I've had good experiences with the more standard, larger clumps that are presented as cha tou, tea heads, clumps formed in shou pu'er.  I've reviewed a few versions here; they tend to be similar to shou pu'er material, because they are that.  They might be a bit sweeter, maybe fruitier, in an odd malty sort of range, with an interesting flavor.  I would expect many readers here to be familiar with that, but here's a category description as part of a Yunnan Sourcing cha tou sampler listing:

Cha Tou is a kind of tea nugget that forms naturally from the pressures of compression and heat that occurs during the fermentation process. Typically during fermentation process to make ripe pu-erh there is a pile of tea about 1 meter high. It is kept wet to allow the fermentation process and the pile is turned every few days to allow for an even degree of fermentation, moving the tea from the bottom of the pile (where it is hotter and wetter) to the top of the pile where it is cooler and drier. The "cha tou" are the leaves that ball up and get stuck together. The best cha tou are ones that have not been over-fermented and are smaller in size.

Here is a product listing that basically repeats those two accounts (just for completeness, since I've only offered a Reddit comment to support that these even exist so far).

The next thing would be to try the tea fossils example I have on hand, and to communicate how that goes.  

I'm comparing these to cha gao; I had a version to try passed on by Peter, the Tea Mania owner, in a visit here awhile back.  It would've been nice to reference a listing for the Tea Mania cha gao, instant tea, especially since it was labeled as being Jing Mai origin gushu material, from 2015.  Made into cha gao?  Strange.

It will work just to describe how it is (both, but I mean the cha gao, which I'm using for comparison).  They don't sell anything like it now, so there's no other background from their site to reference.

Review:

both black as ink; the tea fossil infusion looked lighter in the pan

cha gao (instant tea from Tea Mania):  way, way too strong.  I expected it to be too strong, just not to this level.  I can adjust that; I'll dilute it by a little more than half now.  

It's ok, but maybe keeping on diluting it would make sense.  I had used a cup of water for two good-sized chunks, which I kind of expected might be single-serving amounts, but didn't know.  It reduced some while simmering and stirring it to make it dissolve, so it's down to 3/4 cup now, with half expanded back up to a full cup by the end of the second dilution (8 ounces, 250 ml).  That's about right.

I can't say that I like it.  There are redeeming characteristics, but it's rough, harsh.  Of course very heavy mineral dominates it; one might expect that.  It tastes like drinking rainwater condensed down to a brown liquid after sitting out in a plant pot, reducing there.  A pine note isn't bad though, and it lacks a lot of the disagreeable character of cheap shou.  It's not a lot like peat, it doesn't include off earthy flavors, or fishiness, and so on.

I diluted it again, and it's slightly better, but it's still going to taste like that, so heavy on mineral tones.  It's not so close to the flavor range of shou pu'er, but of course it is closest to that.  I overbrewed some Fu brick tea recently and this also reminds me of that.

tea fossils:  it's better, but only in comparison with the other tea.  I wouldn't drink this.  I will drink these cups; I tend to not waste tea, but I mean there's no way I would purchase this, or repeat this trial to check if other versions are better.  Related to the experience being novel it is quite interesting though.

It has a tapioca sort of flavor, not far off that one flavor aspect that comes out in bubble tea.  Beyond that it may share a little ground with barley tea.  It's actually not that bad.  Warm mineral is there, but in very moderate proportion compared to in the other tea.  It also doesn't taste all that much like shou.  A little, but not much.  

Shou is a broader category than just a little sampling might indicate, so I should qualify that by saying that if we consider the atypical edges of shou experience these may be similar to different ranges of those.  What I see as good shou is a narrower range, or versions that are type-typical.

second impressions, drinking back and forth between the two:  the usual round-by-round, divided format doesn't work for this, where I'm drinking one version of each.  I'll add thoughts and impressions related to drinking these for awhile, while trying more.

The cha gao has an intensity and dominant warm mineral flavor range that some people might like more than I do.  It's not "off," to the extent that it could easily be.  Probably drinking this quite light would make sense.  I've diluted it a lot, related to the original starting point, but I can keep going.  

It is better diluted more, for a third time.  It's interesting how that warm mineral and then earthiness, not completely unlike a heavy French roast coffee, all come together, with a lot of other typical tea / shou range just missing.  Sweetness isn't bad; that helps.  This might be ok sweetened, with milk added, turning it into something really unusual, an instant tea latte.  

That heavy mineral really coats your mouth and tongue, relating to a strong aftertaste experience.  Often that's a sign of quality in tea, a marker for it, but in this case it just seems to be how this instant tea experience works out.  It's not negative, the aftertaste experience, but it's not positive either.  It's a little like when you can taste a metal spoon (not how that's supposed to work), just without clear placement of that being good or bad.

The tea fossils are in a somewhat opposite place, related to them being light in this brewed form, probably with a capacity to take on a much different character brewed strongly.  I simmered them for nearly 10 minutes (probably 7 or 8), but there isn't a clear limit on timing for that, and higher proportion changes intensity too.

I can't really guess if this is how tea fossils are supposed to be.  Per input from a Reddit thread comment they are a lot like cha tou, really a version of those, "tea heads," clumps of shou pu'er that form naturally during wet-pile fermentation.  Or they could be made to look like that from other material, shou dust clumped together using some sort of starch, like tapioca.  

Why would someone do that?  If they could sell cheap shou for a lot more by putting it in a coffee grinder and then mixing it with starch why wouldn't they?  You could buy a cake of very cheap shou for $10, and make half a kilogram of these lumps.

This version being as clean as it seems would lead me to guess that it's "real."  Cha tou, the normal version, the larger lumps that you see more often, have a distinctive sweet, towards fruity, almost berry-like, malty kind of flavor, and this isn't far from that.  Cheap shou just tastes like cheap shou; earthy and rough.  

It sounds pleasant, when I describe it that way, and I do like cha tou, the versions that I've tried.  I'd rather just drink cha tou though; if this is a very typical experience then it's a little thin on some of the other shou character that makes cha tou pleasant, mixing lighter, sweeter, maltier character with the earthiness and depth of shou range.  I suppose to close out all those ideas these tea fossils taste a bit like dark rye bread.  That's not bad; in a slightly different presentation it could be really nice.

The cha gao also isn't bad, in one sense, but it's also not really pleasant.  Someone accustomed to drinking strong black coffee might actually like it, relating to the heavy mineral range differently than I do.  Pleasantness is a subjective determination.

I did try it mixed with milk and sugar, prepared like tea-bag tea or coffee; that is interesting.  It's actually good.  It's hard to describe.  The earthiness drops out, and stronger mineral tone scales way back.  That touch of pine you can still make out.  There's almost a fruity character to it, which is odd, because there's nothing like that in the unaltered version, that I can notice.  I don't know if I would drink that regularly or not but it's better than instant coffee.  There may be potential in this for people trying to switch off coffee.

I brewed the tea fossils again, simmering them for another 10 minutes or so.  Results were similar; not bad.  Maybe really better than that for being novel and interesting, but only so-so as the experience itself went.

Jip Eu Lao Banzhang and Xigui sheng compared with Moychay LBZ

Jip Eu Xigui left, then JE LBZ middle, and Moychay version right, in all photos

I visited my favorite local Bangkok Chinatown shop over a month ago now, before visiting the US, to pick up some basic Shui Xian for gifts "back home."  The owner, Kittichai, gave me some coins of what look to be interesting sheng pu'er.  His description of what they are:

This tea is the product that the shop sells. It is raw Pu-erh tea. There are 4 production sources: 1. Laobanzhang, 2. Xigui, 3. Pingdao, 4. Yiwu (ripe Pu-erh). It is produced by Si Da Ming Pu Company, which is a factory owned by relatives.

They were #1 and 2 of those, the LBZ and Xigui.  

Given how LBZ works out the next question that arises is always "is it real?"  There is a narrower village area, what LBZ is really supposed to mean, and then the common claim is that much of what is presented as such is really from a larger area, so related but not exactly the same.  I'm not accusing that shop or this tea of it not being legitimate; I can't really weigh in on source location issues like that.  Which brings up how one might even begin to guess about that origin issue, or weigh any evidence.

it would've been cool if the tiny discs had age stamps on the labels

I've tried a number of LBZ versions, or teas presented as such, maybe a half dozen or so, or at least 4 or 5; it's hard to keep track.  I just noticed that I had some from Moychay LBZ from a few years back, a 2020 version, so I can compare the versions.  Of course one version being aged longer changes everything, and it's not as if teas from those narrow source areas are necessarily all completely identical.  Every year micro-climate issues change the harvest, and very local growing conditions factor in, along with processing, and there should be some variation in plant ages and type.

Trying three teas together would be a lot, but I do like to lean into combined tastings to keep these multi-part reviews moving along.  I'll do it!

I'll be skipping the part about referencing vendor product listings, because I don't have access to any.  The Jip Eu tea is sold by a Bangkok shop, and I didn't do an extensive search to see if I could find this online, but that's unlikely anyway.  I looked up the old review I wrote for this Moychay LBZ version (here), but it didn't reference a product link.  The post said that one was up but it didn't have pricing details yet; I really should've referenced it anyway, back then, in case it might still work now.  That review mentioned a lot of fruit, and of course it's on to warmer tones now, almost four years later.  The time just flies.

I never did get a production age from Jip Eu until after I tried these.  They're from 2018, so two years older than the Moychay version (2020), aged 6 years now, or maybe 6 1/2, depending on when they were made.  It was interesting considering that during the tasting, because it's not at all clear from the character.  They seem significantly aged, but not fully aged, and there is a lot of space for potential age in between a couple years old and a decade.

Review:

Jip Eu Xigui:  a little light; I didn't really try to stretch out a first infusion time enough to make this more conventional.  It works well getting a limited first impression then really starting on round 2.  

This will be good.  Complex floral tones already show through, supported by warmer range.  This almost has to be a good bit older than half a year old, this year's tea, judging from that character.  And from the brewed liquid color; both are too dark.  At an early guess this is probably better than the average sheng I try, maybe even some versions presented as exceptional.  There's a faint hint of smoke.  I'll do more of a list description next round.

Jip Eu Lao Banzhang:  in a sense forward flavors are less pronounced, but a richness and depth comes through better than for the first version already.  Again this just can't be a 2024 tea, or a whole section would be needed to discuss how that kind of anomaly could even occur, but I can't guess how old it is yet.  This is also clearly very exceptional tea, even based on getting a limited early impression.  Floral range is pleasant, and there's lots more going on with it.  Warm mineral depth is nice, positively supporting the rest, and feel is already positive.

Moychay Lao Banzhang:  this is going to hold its own with the other two, at the least; it is also exceptional.  It might be getting a slightly faster start for being maocha initially, for opening up and brewing faster, related to never having been compressed.  For this being a 2020 tea it has transitioned a good bit; early fresh, bright flavors have evolved to become pleasantly complex warmer tones, with an awful lot going on.  It has a pleasant fruitiness, which I'll describe more as I go.

For sure it's not possible to buy this tea, and hasn't been for years.  It's a shame; I can see why adding significant spending to tea sourcing to set away versions like this for mixed lengths of time would add a lot to tea experience.  If this had been a relatively costly (but perhaps still reasonable) $3 / gram setting aside an extra 50 grams would cost more than a standard boutique produced cake, as long as it wasn't gushu.  Along the way the same sourcing issue would come up; is it real?  It's quite good, but I never could definitively guess about origin location claims, even for more mundane source concerns.

JE Xigui #2:  these should be brewing just fine, on to guessing about infusion time for less material than I usually brew, maybe about 5 grams.  I'll err on the long side this round, just in case, and go close to 30 seconds.

There's a bit of smoke in this, pronounced enough that you can't miss it, but not overpowering.  There was a hint in the aroma the first round but you couldn't taste it as clearly; here you can.  It's strong enough that it's a main flavor input, so that does change things, so that someone's feeling about that input would determine the entire experience.  I don't mind it, but it's hard to see it as positive, an improvement.  Beyond that the rest is fine, some mixed floral range, good supporting mineral, and other harder to isolate warmer tones.  It may need to drop out over more rounds to enable a clearer interpretation of the rest.  

The smokiness tastes like wood fire smoke, like a fireplace that's empty but that has been used a lot.

Jip Eu LBZ:  as I interpret this it's in a place where initial brighter floral range is well along in transitioning to warmer tones, to spice range and such, with warm mineral replacing what was probably earlier on lighter mineral.  I don't think it's at the teenage-years threshold character where versions tend to not make sense, not fully switched over, but kind of showing gaps where the change hasn't filled in yet.  But it's not like a young / new sheng either; early sweet, light, bright range is well along with transitioning.  

Storage conditions varying so much related to changes makes it hard to guess the age.  7 or 8 years of dry storage can be comparable to just 3 or 4 in a warm, humid place, even if the changes aren't exactly the same.  It's not as if it's the same changes at a certain distance down a linear path.

Feel is quite pleasant, the way that full, warm mineral tones join a full, rich feel that seems related.  Bitterness is still present, but not much of it.  What is still there transitions nicely to sweetness after you drink it (funny how I never mention hui gan here; it's that).

Moychay LBZ:  that's so nice!  There's so much fruit present, in a very interesting and positive range.  A little dryness and bitterness offsets it, and there is plenty of warm mineral tone too, but one part of the flavor range is really interesting, complex, warm dried fruit.  This may not be a fair trial for the Jip Eu versions, if this has aged longer, and the extra couple of years has allowed it to evolve this depth and complexity.  Or it could be that varying storage inputs make that an uneven input, or that changes in initial form and potential mean the teas never would seem similar, even with the same storage input and amount of storage time to change them.

The warm dried fruit might be along the line of dried longan, but a root spice tone stands out just as much, as you try to break it down, towards sassafras.  The warmth and character range is reminiscent of cinnamon, it's just not a close match for flavor for that.  The fruit tone, or tones, I think people would interpret in different ways.  Dried longan is just a place-holder to give a clearer impression; really it's complex.  

Jip Eu Xigui #3:  I'm really feeling these teas already; that's the obvious drawback of trying a three way comparison.  I've already drank some water and ate a few nuts between these rounds; kind of early for resorting to that.

The smoke flavor might be settling out already in this, but it's still there.  It will probably take one more round to describe the rest better, which would work better if the smoke input happens to clear up.  I went with a fast infusion this round, no longer than 10 seconds, and that doesn't help the rest stand out more.

Jip Eu LBZ:  this is really good, quite exceptional.  It doesn't help it that the next version I'm comparing it to will be that much more complex and intense, across really interesting scope.  The two do overlap a little in basic flavor; dried fruit, with some floral range that's more in the background in the other that stands out in this.  The warmer tone range is comparable, mixing with other spice range.  

It may be that this isn't as transitioned as the other, so it's in a different place, back on floral versus fruit, not settled into warmer tone range yet.  It's good, and it's complex, but compared to the other it might seem a little muted.  It can't really be the "in-between" timing and fermentation transition concern; no matter how young or old these are this seems slightly less fermentation-transitioned than the other four year old version.  

Fall material versions can come across as less intense; an input like that might come into play.  That's also one way that LBZ material can turn up in remotely accessible or affordable forms, along with origin being just a little outside that narrower village area range, or from somewhere else entirely.

Moychay LBZ:  warmth and depth picks up in this; it's different trying it brewed this fast.  This may "brew out" relatively quickly, given how fast it got started, and that I'm not using that much leaf for this, maybe about 5 grams, or it could even be 4.

This is much more whole-leaf compared to the other two versions.  That should reduce astringency in this version, and increase it in the others (relatively), muting intensity a little in this, and adding more challenging aspect range to the others.  They're all pretty approachable though; that makes me think the other two must not be very young material, along with the flavor tones being warm, brewed leaf darkening some, and liquid color not being lighter.  

This Moychay version is quite dark in brewed liquid appearance, on the red side.  That's actually a little unfamiliar, a sheng of this age turning that red.  It's been here in Bangkok for some years (3?), and that pushes the pace of transition.  Still the brewed liquid color is reddish, not so far off how black teas appear, not just darkened, more gold or onto between golden and amber instead.

A bit more warm mineral tone and astringency edge seems to emerge, possibly a function of the infusion transition cycle, and also related to brewing this round faster.  It would seem odd if that was it's best flavor range already passed through, while the Xigui version is still dropping out an early smoke aspect.  I'll give all three between 15 and 20 seconds next round, to get back to a more conventional infusion strength (for me, I guess that I mean).

Xigui #4:  there is some darkened area on the wet leaves; that smoke seems to relate to char from the leaf actually being singed a little.  It may not drop out then, if it's not from smoke contact, instead from the leaf being slightly burned.

It's not dropping out.  There's good sweetness and pleasant aspect range beyond it, it's just harder for me to identify in that context.  This tea does seem to be good for quality level; feel is full and rich, and overall character is refined.  I suppose it would be complex floral tones that I'd be going on more about.  Complexity is probably pretty good too; there are layers of different aspects present.  If someone is fine with a touch of smoke, or even enjoys that, this could still seem exceptional.  

I can appreciate it as pleasant to drink but it's throwing off evaluating it related to it being a better than average quality sheng version, or related to describing other aspects in detail.

JE LBZ:  this is getting even better.  Richness is more intense; overall complexity and balance is better.  Intensity isn't necessarily a strength, but there's a lot going on, across a very positive range.  

Dried fruit mixes with other layers of aspects, or other range, making it harder to isolate.  That's along the line of dried mango, combining with limited warm floral range, warm mineral, and some spice tones.  Some bitterness and a rich feel, including a little dryness, adds to the overall complexity.  The final effect is pleasant, refined, and complex, just not necessarily as intense as it might be.

Moychay LBZ:  this is evolving, changing.  Dried fruit range is similar but different; spice range is just as pronounced, or even more so, but again it's changing.  Dried fruit had reminded me of dried longan, and a touch more savory edge is showing up in this, maybe shifting towards dried tamarind.  Spice range is different, in a way that's hard to describe.  

There's still a catchy set of complex, approachable flavors present, related to the earlier set.  Maybe a touch of warm menthol joins the rest, like a less edgy version of mint, or menthol.  Or camphor, plenty of people might move directly on to suggesting, given how standard interpretations go, but to me it's more like an extra hint of wintergreen mint.  

This definitely isn't fading yet; interesting transitions are still occurring.  Five rounds is so much tea though, 15 of these little cups; that might have to do.  I'll need another break just to get to that next round.

Xigui #5:  smoke input is lightening, balancing out a bit.  This is pretty good tea, evident in the layers of inputs, the complex flavors and rich feel.  It's funny how that one smoke input can really alter and redefine the rest.  As it is this is a good example of a pretty good tea, but a lot of distinctiveness drops out for natural focus shifting to that one aspect.

JE LBZ:  also a very pleasant, rich, complex, and refined tea.  It giving up range in terms of intensity and novel flavor inputs stands out a lot more in comparison with the other LBZ version; it would seem better without that comparison.  It'll be interesting to hear the age of this tea, to see how that input led to this result.

Moychay LBZ:  a little brighter, more complex and novel in flavor range, also warmer in a sense, with warm mineral tones and rich feel supporting the rest, and just as refined as the other.  It's hard to not conclude that it's better.  It may be fading just a little already, having spent a lot of early intensity relatively quickly.  

Something unusual seemed to have been happening with how this age-transitioned; it seems as much like it's slightly oxidized as it seems fermented.  The color is a part of that, it being reddish, but a warm tone range reminds me of black tea character.  Quite often that comes up in lower quality sheng that's not made properly, which doesn't have good aging potential, and ends up tasting woody before it's even fully aged.  This isn't like that.  It's exceptional, and aging to be just as pleasant as when young, just in a different novel character.

Maybe the hot and humid Bangkok conditions pushed it through a much faster transition cycle than 4 1/2 years would usually enable?  Maybe it being maocha enabled that to go even faster, so that this is as transitioned as 7 or 8 year old versions stored under different conditions would experience?  It's possible that tea stored in cool and dry conditions, tightly pressed, would change less in a decade, and that the form those changes would take would vary.  It's quite good as it is though, the main thing.  

It seems at least possible that this lost some 15 to 20 year cycle transition potential along the way, that it's not in the right place to keep improving for more than another decade as a result.  Only time would really tell.  It seems likely that the other LBZ version would fade over the next 3 or 4 years, in addition to changing to include more warm flavor tones.

Conclusions:

The missing input in those notes had been the age of the two two Jip Eu versions (produced by the Si Da Ming Pu Company; mentioned earlier in the description, but not something I've been repeating).  It's from 2018; it was two years older than the LBZ version used for comparison, 6 years old now.

It makes sense that it's a bit less intense, related to having more time to age-transition, but that wasn't necessarily completely evident in the other character.  Level of transition seems pretty comparable, in relation to markers like color of leaves, color of brewed liquid, and range of flavor tones, or maybe slightly less transitioned.  That's not so unusual; the tea was compressed instead, and probably spent a good bit of time in Yunnan, maybe essentially the whole time.  Bangkok climate changes tea fast.  

I've been running in 90+F / 30+C high humidity (70% or so) conditions lately (in Bangkok), and it only cools down to 90 F / 30 C in the evening.  It's not the rainy season but it rains sometimes, and it's crazy how humid it is at other times anyway.  It's hot and humid for tea and for people.

It's hard to place why the Jip Eu LBZ would be that much less intense, but it had good complexity and good positive character, so that only stood out as much in the direct comparison.  Maybe it was autumn harvest material; that would make a difference.  One thing I didn't emphasize much in the review description was that the broken leaf character of the two Jip Eu versions should have caused much higher astringency experience; that should've changed the feel, related to the other.  Maybe the extra aging time offset that, without causing other changes that made it seem significantly older (but then 2 more years isn't that much older).

I can't say anything about value related to these, since I don't know any pricing ranges, but I could guess a little about quality level.  For the Xigui that's problematic because to me a bit of smokey character defined that tea experience, and to me that's not really a conventional input for better teas, as it had been more normal quite awhile back, related to how sheng often was a decade ago.  

That leaves considering which of the LBZ versions seemed better.  I suppose the Moychay version did.  It was more whole leaf (not necessarily better taken alone, but that can tie to more positive aspects), and a bit more complex and intense, and both had comparable positive character.  It was favorable that the Moychay LBZ expressed a bit more dried fruit, more supporting spice range, and then either a little mint or camphor.

The Jip Eu LBZ was well worth experiencing though.  If it was selling for a moderate price, maybe even beyond $1 a gram, given how "moderate" can be relative, then it seems worth trying out.  

Things shift for me related to trying a pleasant 10 gram--or so; about that--coin of exceptional tea versus buying a 200 gram small cake of one.  $10 is good bit to spend on two tea sessions, but not much for trying exceptional tea (not that I know the pricing for these; I don't).  There's just absolutely no way I'd spend $200 on a 200 gram cake, of just about anything.  If I earned three times as much income and my son's upcoming college education expenses seemed more sorted out maybe, but as things stand spending $90 on a standard size cake is already plenty.

It was really nice trying these.  It leads me to think about how these are in comparison with the last two sets of pretty good sheng I've been trying, the last two reviews, but it's too much to go into.  Sheng can vary a lot in character, and be quite positive in different ways, for different reasons.  That Tea Mania Mengsong from last week's review was pretty good (a 2014, with lots of variation in probably aging changes and related character), but this Moychay LBZ is in a really nice place now, and it's that much more novel, setting aside simple pleasantness of aspects.

where I run; the lights make it nice

the view at work, with a screen adding a digital effect