Visiting a Bangkok Chinatown tea shop (K. Mui Kee Tea)

 

I've not been exploring Bangkok Chinatown tea shops much, for a long time.  One set of shop owners are so familiar and pleasant to visit with that I kept going to the same shop over and over, really appreciating seeing them, with lots of varying teas already on offer there.  That's to Jip Eu, my favorite local shop, located near the Hua Lampong railway station.

Their building is under repair, so they're closed, so I visited another local shop to buy tea for a gift within the last month (K. Mui Kee Tea, nearby there).  I wrote about trying a very pleasant Dan Cong from them here.

the owners of that other shop, Jip Eu

I just went back to buy more tea for gifts, and visited with the owner and two other guests there.  This is about that.  That shop owner had always seemed pleasant before, and it was a nice chance to visit more.

I don't want to say or imply too much here about the theme of that shop, or general value for what's there, or what else they carry.  But I can cover how trying those teas went, and that paints some of that picture.  You could assume that some of what I'm saying applies more broadly, that these represent their selection, or what I'm saying about value would hold true for others, but I'm not implying that.  

Inconsistency is one of the interesting parts of visiting Chinatown shops.  A version might be great, or value might be exceptional, then for the next tea it can all shift.  It's not that the shop owners can't judge teas well; my take is that working through very diverse forms of sourcing the outcomes naturally vary.  But who knows about likely causes.

Wild origin black tea:  this is what I already gave away for a gift, and what I was there to buy again.  I had only smelled the dry leaf before, but you can get some sense of teas that way.  We actually tried the tea there (not first; this isn't in order).  It is good.  

Maybe the flavor list is a little unique, not matching some standard type expectation, but the flavors were positive, and they balanced well, as the rest of the character did.  I suppose one might interpret something like limited intensity across some flavor range or light body feel as flaws, but to me it was a solid, pleasant, good quality tea.  I would expect that by shifting brewing approach you could adjust for whatever didn't seem as positive, to you.  

I can't really cite a clear flavor list, based on trying that tea yesterday, not focusing on that.  I think it included some dried fruit, and warm tones were what you would expect for black tea, maybe along the line of cacao.  I didn't notice citrus or roasted yam or sweet potato, but that's not to say that I wouldn't if I didn't try it again, and focus in more.

Cost was 500 baht ($15) for 100 grams.  That's pretty good for good quality, novel, distinctive tea like that.  It's not rock bottom pricing, as can occur in Chinatown shops, but you shouldn't be looking for that in a tea version of a type that's all but completely unique.  If the idea is to find a steal on a main type, like standard rolled Tie Guan Yin, that can work.  Really Thai teas should sell for less, and Chinatown shops tend to sell Chinese teas instead (of course).

a Longjing varietal tasting (covered here)

Longing:  this is a good test case for evaluating any Chinatown shop, isn't it?  If you don't already know why it's not important, but this is a pretty standard type.  It's more or less my favorite green tea.  Flavor tends to be nutty, or to resemble toasted rice, with some floral range, and not too much vegetal or grassy flavor (conventionally).  A range of flavor not too far off cashew can tend to pop, integrated with floral range in a unique way.  The effect can be a little like new car smell, but in a very positive sense.  I get it that comparison makes limited sense.

This version was pretty good, pretty far up the scale.  By that I also mean not at the top of the scale, but to me that's fine, if pricing matches.  It was selling for 1000 baht per 100 grams ($30), which to me seems fine for a pretty good version.  Often the best examples can be more like 50 cents a gram, or at least the normal best that you tend to find.

This is the kind of tea that would divide people with that developed preference.  Some would naturally really want to experience that most intense, most type-typical flavor set, and intensity.  But then they would already know buying that quality level for 30 cents a gram isn't how that tends to go.  To me pretty good versions bring across most of the same appeal.

two other Dan Cong versions, more oxidized and roasted (left) and lighter (right)

Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong:  another good test case / standard type.  Theirs was pretty good.  I didn't catch a selling price, so I won't be able to evaluate if it's good for the price-implied quality level.  If it cost 500 to 600 baht per 100 ($15-18) grams it would be a good deal; if it cost 1000 you might be able to find as good a version for slightly less somewhere else.

That's the most standard type of Dan Cong, another oolong range type.  It's the name of a flower, honey orchid, so it's supposed to taste similar to other versions, and that flower, and I think this did.  It often also tastes a little like ripe peach.  I don't remember if this did or didn't, but I think I came in late in the steeping sequence, so maybe the most intense range had already passed.  Really high quality versions tend to express great character deep into a long round of steeps, but for normal priced versions (25 cents a gram or so, or less) the positive intensity fading over a limited number of rounds is fine.

that might've been between these in style, not so oxidized and roasted or as light

Dian Hong, a version with a lot of buds:  this is my own personal favorite black tea type, Yunnan black.  I tend to like fine leaf versions best, or even from good sized leaves, but buds heavy versions would be in higher demand, and considered more positive, to many.  It tasted like these should taste, and the feel / body seemed fine.  It was heavy on honey and some cacao flavor range, with good complexity and depth beyond that.  

it looked like this, a China Life Dian Hong reviewed in 2016 (the Mei Leaf predecessor)

If this had been a personal favorite style it would've really stood out among the other teas.  I do like it, but for whatever reason I like the leaf based variations more.  They might give up a bit in terms of forward flavor, traded out for more experience of depth, and the conventional flavor range shifts, not so much tied to honey and cacao but more into roasted sweet potato or yam.  For people who love Jin Jun Mei this wasn't so far from that taste range; they would also like it.

Since I'm guessing an appropriate value, even for not knowing cost, I could keep on with that.  This is pretty good quality tea, in a desirable, in-demand style, so a little higher cost range would seem normal.  But black teas tend to be priced lower than Dan Cong oolong, so pretty much everything I sad about the Mi Lan Xiang version also applies directly here.  This probably does cost a little more than the wild origin version ($15 / 500 baht per 100 grams), and that would be fair, related to buds heavy content being distinctive and adding appeal (demand).  To me 1000 baht ($30) per 100 grams would seem a little high, even though in online Western outlets that would still be about right.  Thai Chinatown shops tend to sell at a good value, although that's not always true, and you could still get a "bad deal" on teas in places.

Da Hong Pao (Wuyi Yancha):  a version we tried was fine.  Flavors and other character was in the right range, and it brewed multiple rounds consistently and positively.  We talked about in-house charcoal roasting, related to trying it.  There's a lot that brought to mind, and it was odd sharing how that theme is interesting, and represents distinctive vendor capability, and also serves as a red flag.  I'll add a short version of that here, and not say as much about this tea version.

Per my very limited understanding it's not unusual for Taiwanese oolong vendors to buy essentially unroasted, unfinished tea versions and then roast them to a desired level.  It requires a high degree of skill to do that well.  Producers roast teas under controlled and specific conditions, multiple times, matching the roast input to the existing tea potential.  It's not like just heating them up a standard amount for a standard time, and then they're good.

That's atypical though, again per my understanding.  Most Western vendors would just buy oolongs as finished teas, already roasted.  They would have been processed to match the other processing inputs, the original material character and oxidation level input.  So why else would a vendor need to add roast input?  For two main reasons, and maybe for others as well.

One is to periodically re-roast teas stored over a long time period to restore flavor balance, and compensate for some limited moisture input from storage.  This is a bit touchy, because in modern times, again per my understanding, vendors just seal the teas better to begin with, stored at an appropriate moisture content level, and an older concern about accumulated moisture contact drops out.

A last reason is to cover up flaws in teas.  Vendors might mix a few material inputs that more or less don't completely match with each other (although in the best case they would balance each other perfectly), and cover up inconsistencies in character by roasting it all quite a bit.  Bridging this category and the last, if a tea went completely dead from improper storage roasting might add flavor, even though it's not ideal to let a tea lose most of its original taste.

So one might look on claims that in-house roasting is a positive and important input with some suspicion.  Depending on how it's done, and why, it could be that.  That Da Hong Pao was pretty good, so that's a good sign.  Pretty good is all relative, and let's skip expanding on that for now, and the value part.  I'm also skipping that Da Hong Pao is usually a branding term for either mixed input teas or something random, maybe just Shui Xian, since the most original forms are usually sold as Qi Dan or Bei Dou instead (related plant types).

Another shou pu'er we tried a little of seemed ordinary, but fine.  I'll skip all the extrapolation here, about really placing quality, or guessing about price; we just tried one round of it.

K. Mui Kee Tea; they sell those tea stuffed dried tangerines, a cool thing to try

Other concerns; is this a typical Chinatown shop experience?

It's kind of not.  If shop owners want to try teas with you then they will, maybe even tasting all sorts of things, without really worrying about what you buy in the end.  More often they wouldn't.  A shop might be set up around that theme, as Sen Xing Fa is (a tourist oriented shop not too far away).  These older style, owner ran local shops tend to sell tea at a better value than tourist oriented shops with more staff.

a meetup at Sen Xing Fa; not so many shops would be open to hosting that kind of thing

Or shops might visit and make tea for locals they already know, the case of me visiting Kittichai at Jip Eu.  That's like visiting an uncle, to me.  I buy tea every time, just because it's fair to, and I'm usually there for that, but they'll often brew teas they don't even sell, just to share the experience.

I think this shop owner is unusually nice.  I always had that sense before, even though I may have never tried much brewed tea there.  His reputation is really positive in the local tea community.

So I seem to be saying that the owner is nice, tasting there is no problem, the teas are good, and they are also a good value.  That visit definitely implied all of that.  But I would expect some degree of inconsistency to come up, for some versions to be better than others, and for value to vary.  That's normal for Chinatown shops.  You hedge your bet in having that experience (of inconsistency) when the owner really gets tea, as he seems to, but Chinese tea is a really broad subject.  Even for vendors in the business for decades they tend to know some types better than others, and to have better developed sourcing for some range.

To me this isn't really a significant negative part of exploring teas through Chinatown shops.  Value might not be great all the time, or tea quality, but the normal range is pretty favorable, for better shops.  The worst experiences teach you, and the cost for that instruction tends to be relatively low.

Meeting those other guests was very pleasant.  They weren't so far along the tea exploration path, but they had significant prior exposure, and a fantastic attitude about it all.  They were really nice. 

Tea enthusiasts tend to end up in a strange place related to it seeming normal that people have already tried a half dozen version of dozens of types, and have memorized a couple of books worth of background.  Of course I don't judge people based on how they might do sitting down to write a book about tea off the top of their head.  

In a sense I envy people newer to the interest.  They have so much exploration range to get to, so many instances of trying something new and interesting for the first time.  If you start out trying basic quality tea versions you can gradually drink better and better tea, for years, without it even costing that much.  Just exploring broadly, or horizontally across types (if you like that spatial analogy), you can keep trying pretty good teas indefinitely.  Chinese teas do tend to be unusually diverse, and favorable, with a unique high end related to potential quality level, but it can work in relation to other origins as well.

I can make that more specific.  You could spend 15 to 30 cents a gram on a lot of pretty good teas, and drink different types and characters of versions for years, before it seemed in order to push on to higher quality level, to spend more, in order to really have a more complete experience.  Or you could start "at the top," either way would work.  I just don't think it would work well to explore a lot of the best quality teas out there, and then get around to trying much more basic versions after that.

All of these teas we tried are in the middle, and favorable in character related to that, well above average for quality level and pleasantness.  I could never drink teas better than them, for the rest of my life, and I'd be fine with that.  But people naturally approach all of that in different ways, and it's natural for a perspective on quality levels and what one values to change over time.

The Three Horse Chinatown shop.  I bought some tea there not long ago, but haven't tried any, there or of what I bought (again for a gift; I tend to give away a good bit of tea).  I'd have to recommend going to these other style shops instead, where you can meet an owner and try some tea with them.  Or in Sen Xing Fa it's more just different staff, but they're set up for tasting as part of a routine sales process.

Thai wild Assamica based oolong, Jinxuan based "oriental beauty"

 

Chang Kham Thai oolong left, in all photos

This reviews a Thai forest origin Assamica based oolong and a Jin Xuan based Dong Fang Mei Ren, a tea type formerly known as Oriental Beauty.  They sell this as Golden Grace Beauty; more often vendors avoid the term "oriental" by calling it Eastern Beauty. 

These are from Chang Kham, a Chiang Mai based shop vendor, and Moychay, a Russian vendor now selling tea from Amsterdam.  Both sent the teas for review; many thanks! 

Both are sort of non-standard, but the Thai tea really falls outside of standard categories. Apparently it's tricky to make oolong from Assamica, with more on that in the review notes.  There is no product description here since this is from a physical shop, not an online source.  There may well be a sales listing somewhere for it, on a local Thai online platform like Shopee or Lazada, but I didn't look one up.

DFMR / OB usually isn't based on the Jin Xuan cultivar, I don't think, and this oxidation level seems unusually low, but the results aren't too far off the standard type outcome. 

Golden Grace Beauty Oolong (Jinxuan Meiren Cha)

Golden Grace Beauty Oolong is a rare type of Oriental Beauty tea made by Moychay order in Southern Fujian, in collaboration with Taiwanese tea artisans. 

Grown at an altitude of about 1100 meters in pesticide-free gardens, the tea is uniquely shaped by nature: the tea leaves must be bitten by a specific insect — the “small green leafhopper” (Jacobiasca formosana). This triggers a natural enzymatic response, promoting the release of terpenes and resulting in complex aromas of honey, fruit, and flowers. 

The tea is entirely handmade using the Jin Xuan cultivar and follows a labor-intensive oolong process that includes sunlight withering, oxidation (60–80%), multiple fermentations, and careful drying. 

Its distinctive appearance displays five hues — red, yellow, white, green, and brown — with prominent white hairs. The infusion glows golden like amber, with a smooth, rich, and lingering flavor. Layers of honey, fruit, floral, and tender vegetal notes unfold in the cup.

That costs 19.73 Euro for 60 grams, or $24 USD.  That's 40 cents a gram.  Is that good?  It's hard to say.  If the style is a good match to preference for someone, the changes from most typical type character, then that's quite fair, but some people might be put off by those differences, and then it wouldn't be about fair or low price.

That might be all the more true of the other tea version, that for people who happen to like that distinctive and unique style it could be a great tea, but that it being atypical might drop the level of appeal for others.

Review:

Thai wild Assam oolong:  that's interesting.  Warm tones and an astringency structure stand out first, but there is sweetness and plenty of flavor complexity.  I'm not sure what tea type this reminds me of.  It's probably not a close match to any standard type of oolong, but then being made from Assamica material is a step away from that, and material being from a wild origin source usually changes things, into a less familiar but often interesting form.  

It's hard to identify a flavor breakdown, or even to add range to this.  There's a lot going on, but warm mineral and astringency structure mask the rest.  There might be both fruit and floral range, and possibly some warm spice, and it's that complexity, so much going on, that makes it hard to identify distinct flavors.  A savory edge, and the flavor, might relate to sun-dried tomato.  I'll try again next round for more of a list.

Moychay Jin Xuan "Meiren Cha," Golden Grace Beauty oolong:  that does express a lot of the type-typical "oriental beauty" range, the muscatel oriented citrus, a raisin note, and warm spice, pretty much just cinnamon.  The color looks much lighter than I would see as standard, but the flavor range is heavier and warmer than expected.  Feel is pleasant; it includes fullness and richness already.  Aftertaste expression is even kicking in.  It's pretty good.  They might have got even better results adding just a touch more oxidation input, but you can't argue with the results as this stands.  

There's a hint of lighter floral range still, the more normal Jin Xuan character, and a good bit of creaminess.  It's not perfectly type-typical "oriental beauty."  I guess I could start writing out Dong Fang Mei Ren instead, and avoid using either the old, politically incorrect name, or else Golden Grace Beauty, which is just a work-around to not say "oriental."  It doesn't matter.

In trying the second version and then the first that astringency edge in the Thai version stands out all the more.  It's not like a black tea astringency, and definitely not like oolong, which almost always lacks any kind of edge.  So I guess it's the green tea range carrying over, in spite of added oxidation?  It's not bad; it will be interesting to see how it evolves.

Thai Assamica oolong #2:  this first sample is smaller, maybe 5 grams, while the other is 7.  For now I just poured out the second Jin Xuan infusion first, not adjusting timing by much, but I might have to.

This evolves to be a lot stronger.  It was brewed pretty fast, but it's already quite intense.  Faster infusion times may work for this, or rather the lower proportion relating to making a related change.

This is pleasant, but it tastes like a tea processing style still being developed.  Integration and balance are a little off.  Warm tones and astringency are fine, but sweetness and flavor complexity aren't there in the right level to balance those.  Sweetness is limited.  It has nice depth, and intensity is fine.  No flavors are really off; it all works, but it could balance better.  Feel is a little structured, even towards seeming dry, for this to be a normal oolong style.  

I don't think this is an early attempt at processing; I would expect that it took some work to get this to balance as well as it already does.  But converting oolong processing to work for Assamica material might be tricky.  I've tried other attempts, and only two really worked.  This is quite good in relation to the range of the rest, just not quite where those two were.  Those were from Vietnam, sold by Hatvala, prepared as rolled oolong, reviewed here in 2019.  I guess it's a theme that doesn't come up too often.

There's a unique flavor in this that's pleasant, that's hard to pin down.  It's on towards rust, a warm mineral input, but it's not that.  It's closer to a wetlands sort of variation of "forest floor."  That sounds unpleasant, like I'm saying it tastes swampy, and I don't mean that, it's nice.  It could use one or two other notes to balance it, but those may evolve over the next couple of rounds.

Jin Xuan Dong Fang Mei Ren:  that warm spice note really stands out, along with something like dried tangerine peel (or muscatel; that kind of works too).  The spice may be in between cinnamon and nutmeg.  What I interpreted as raisin is a fainter background input now.  Warm mineral supports the rest nicely, and all the other aspects integrate really well:  sweetness, rich feel, aftertaste effect, and balance of flavors.  Then it's unusual that a bit of lighter floral is in there as well.  It gives it even more complexity, but it also reduces the impact and effect of the rest some.

This is pretty good, as oriental beauty variations go, but it's hard for any version to be towards the top of that scale, which relates to an amazing overall set of integrated and balanced aspects.  These warmer fruit and spice tones could be even warmer, and more intense, and could combine differently.  A honey sweetness sometimes stands out.  The citrus note can pop more than it does in this.  It's a good version, but not completely type-typical, and not a great version, in terms of pleasantness of experience.  It's on a level above the other tea; that one doesn't come together in the same way.  But then they're producing something really non-standard, not just using Jin Xuan instead of whatever other cultivar is more standard for OB (a type of Qing Xin, was it?).

Thai Assamica oolong #3:  it's interesting how the color changes in the second version, how that evens up over the rounds.  And how this has been staying as intense as the other, even though it's around 5 grams instead of 7.

This is the best this has been.  The flavors tie together better than ever, and the feel picks up richness, with the earlier astringency mellowing.  It was never harsh or edgy, to be clear, nowhere near Assam black tea range, or sheng intensity and rough feel.  It just had a lot of astringency structure for oolong, and a touch of dryness, which is lighter now.  

That one flavor is all the catchier.  It's not so different than the one edge in black tea, towards malt, not completely unlike some cured hardwood tone.  But hard to fully describe.  It seems like floral range is filling in some depth and complexity, and spice is, but they're hard to make out as distinct flavors.  It might be more like a tropical hardwood, teak, mahogany, or the like (which I guess makes sense, for a forest origin Thai tea).  One part I'm not capturing well in description relates to spice, sort of along the line of bay leaf.  

It's pleasant.  It doesn't match any other standard tea style or type, but that's fine.

Jin Xuan Dong Fang Mei Ren:  the balance of those earlier flavors shifts a little, but they're all the same.  Maybe the citrus stands out a little more this round.  I'm brewing this quite light, for 10 seconds or so, and you could draw out the warmer and heavier flavors more just by adding more time.  I'll try that, and probably leave off notes after the next round.

Thai Assamica oolong #4:  that astringency edge is much stronger, brewed longer; no surprise there.  It leans towards a green wood effect made this way.  This tea is more suitable for being brewed lighter.

Jin Xuan OB:  warm spice does stand out a little more for being brewed a little longer, but this may be fading already, since intensity didn't really increase.  A couple of more rounds would tell for sure.  [later edit]:  it wasn't dying, but it was fading, which isn't a good sign for quality, that happening so fast.  It made a few more decent infusions, but intensity had already dropped off some.

Conclusions:

These kind of review posts probably don't work very well for vendor marketing.  For people who the descriptions ring a bell, related to them sounding great, or interesting, the teas would seem appealing, but it would be as likely that it's not enough of a strong sales pitch.  The teas were good, but not high up the scale as good teas go.

It's nice that Moychay is turning up interesting versions of some standard teas, and selling them at moderate cost, at a good value.  But I'd expect a lot of tea enthusiasts to be seeking out the most type-typical, highest quality, most pleasant versions, and this may or may not make the cut, depending on judgement.  It's pleasant, so that part works, but slightly off the most typical Dong Fang Mei Ren style.

The other tea is even more unusual.  It's fine, also good, but again few people are probably looking for distinctive oolong that has an atypical feel and flavor profile.  If it all meshed together really well then sure, and this tea version balanced ok, but it was only on the lower end of "good."

Southeast Asian tea themed meetup in Honolulu

 

Not long ago I wrote about a variation of this event theme, a tasting meetup.  That picture is really from a meetup in 2023, covered here; I again didn't take a picture this time.  It's funny how similar the tea list was, even though parts were different.

Related to limited attendance to that recent meetup, this time six people showed up.  That's beside my daughter and I hosting, and my wife joining a little to talk about tourism in Thailand (kind of a tangent; she's a registered tour guide there, so it's force of habit).  It was really nice.  Most had limited exposure to tea experience so it was nice going through broad intro and background scope.

One might wonder what the point is of sharing this is.  Bragging about being such a good host, or having access to interesting teas?  It's not that.  To me the point is that it's easy to share tea experience with other people, if you have a few interesting kinds around, even though coordinating with others you don't know is difficult.  That local friend who is an owner of Teas We Like joined again; it was nice having two well-informed tea related perspectives to share (also counting myself as such; it applies, just less so in my case, in some ways).  A meetup would still be fine with less of an educational component.

For people who feel that their own tea selection is too limited to provide much exposure they could open it to others joining to also share what they like.  It would work to frame that as very open and optional, and people would take it as such.

I'll describe what we tried, and some of the reasoning for going with this progression, and how these teas were received.  That last part might be the most functional, related to what would work for a tasting / meetup. 

2024 Thai black tea, close enough to Dian Hong (reviewed here, an earlier version, and this version):  this has been a personal favorite of mine for a long time, which is now one session away from being finished (from a kg or more of it; so sad!).  

It seemed like an approachable and interesting place to start.  Pretty much everyone always "gets" Dian Hong style black tea, since it's flavorful, mild in nature, sweet, a little complex, with decent depth.  It made for a good baseline for comparing other tea type experiences to.  This version was from Aphiwat, described more in relation to the third tea we tried.

I'd planned to start with a kind of low-medium quality range Wuyi Yancha, a Shui Xian, but this tea is better, and it served a similar purpose.  It can work to talk about both the strengths and limitations of teas; that came up a good bit in this tasting.  To me this black / red tea just works, even though it's a bit basic.  Flavor notes are along the line of cacao, dried fruit, and moderate mineral.

2023 Quang Tom Vietnamese oxidized sheng:  this post covers what this tea is, kind of an outlier for style (comparing it to the 2024 version, which is a little more conventional).  

This version is interesting for being a bit cloudy in appearance, usually an indicator of a problematic processing input.  This probably was a case of that; I think it wasn't dried properly after being pressed.  I'm guessing this because I first received this cake, or one like it, in 2003, when it was new, and it was still too damp then.  So I dried it out.  I did so by heating a good bit of salt in a toaster oven, a quarter cup of it, to pull out the moisture, and then placed this cake in a sealed storage container with an open cup of that salt, for a couple of days.  Since I was living in Bangkok re-conditioning the humidity level was automatic.

this should be 2023 left and 2024 right

People liked it.  That cloudiness dissipates within a few rounds, and doesn't seem to throw off flavor much, even though I'm not sure if it's a good idea to not drink a lot of it (I'm on my third or fourth cake now, so if that is an issue I'm just taking the hit).  It tastes a lot like honey, or even beeswax, and is very sweet and mild.  I suppose it's more like a lightly oxidized black tea than a sheng, but not exactly like that either.  And not really like an oolong either, although it might sound like that's what is in the middle.

2023 Thai sheng:  this is from my overall favorite local Thai producer, Aphiwat (reviewed in different posts, including here, but that was the 2024 version, this is the 2023).  He is a member of a local "hill tribe" in the Chiang Mai area (which would be pejorative in US English, but isn't in standard Thai use of English, as a translation of their own wording for something similar).  They work with older plant local material, a wild origin sort of theme, but it isn't presented along with a lot of claims of either, it just is what it is.  

Aphiwat!

We talked through a lot of tea background at that meetup, about plant types, older plant and wild origin material concerns, a bit on processing style, storage conditions and aging input, and local origin character; a lot of the basics.  It wasn't set up as a developed session outline, just plenty of basic discussion.

Even three years old this tea retains a good bit of bitterness and vegetal input, a green wood edge, along with some floral character.  To me it's quite approachable at this point, because I started drinking it brand new three years ago, and it was a bit intense and more challenging then.  Flavor tones have warmed, and it has picked up depth.  We really didn't dig too deeply into how sheng gradually transitions over the years; that's a lot to get into.  But we touched on some main themes, including a little on that.  It's fascinating scope, how teas change, and how storage conditions affect that.

2022 Wawee origin Thai sheng (from Rishi Tea):  this is another pretty good example, just not quite on the same level as the prior tea.  Where that version stays intense and just as pleasant over a full cycle of 10+ rounds this one kind of fades after a half dozen infusions.  That one friend mentioned how age of plants used might tie to this, how younger plant plantation production might be more intense earlier and lose intensity faster, and older or more natural growth material might start a bit subtle and keep picking up intensity, or might transition in aspect range later in rounds.

It was well received.  It's a relatively pleasant tea for those decent first half dozen infusions, and it doesn't have a challenging "youngish" sheng character.  By that I mean that it includes some bitterness and astringency, but not all that much, and warmer tones have just barely started to enter in.  Thai sheng, or other SE Asian versions, can often include fruit flavor, and to me this does.

Fu zhuan hei cha based on white tea, from Oriental Leaf:  this was a big shift, moving on to hei cha (dark tea, another broad category, although some people see pu'er as that, and some don't).  

It's a pretty mild version of one, and the heavy "golden flowers" fungus input gives it that one characteristic taste.  It's based on white tea that is further processed as Fu zhuan, or Fu brick hei cha, which is kind of unusual.

People liked it.  They said it tasted like pumpkin pie, which is a pretty good observation.  It definitely includes warm tones, sweetness, and related spice flavor range, so that's it.  It's really easy to prepare; lots of infusion strength range would have been fine.  None of these teas were really challenging in relation to that, so I didn't need to focus in so much to dial in brewing.

Just to clarify brewing approach a little further I was using a large gaiwan, probably 200+ ml, and brewing and combining two infusions, to brew enough for seven people to try a little each round.  

My wife saw that gaiwan out somewhere in a thrift store and bought it sometime in the last year (in January, or last year?), and this was the first time I used it.  It makes you wonder about potential lead glaze exposure, doesn't it?  Not to worry participants, who may read this; people are right to test teaware for that, and limit exposure, but drinking a few hundred ml brewed from a dodgy gaiwan would still be fine.  It looks like a standard mass-produced version; it's probably fine.  Why mention it then?  Why not overshare, since it is related?

There wasn't much negative feedback to cover, related to what didn't work for people, or what was challenging.  It probably helped that these were all fairly approachable teas.  And if one didn't match preference as much as others it might have been natural for them to not comment on that part, and just take it as it comes.

1980's Bao Zhong:  I'm not sure where I got this tea, maybe in a trade with a friend (I don't think that I ever did review it).  It's an interesting character range, definitely well-aged, but it lacks both depth and complexity.  Storage input wasn't all that musty; it was pretty clean and neutral.

My one more-experienced friend in attendance mentioned that re-roasting during aging, a common practice for offsetting input of humidity over time in oolongs, may have narrowed the distinctiveness of the character range.  Roasting can counter sourness developing from a tea becoming slightly damp, and can change the flavor in a positive way, but it could also transition it in a way that limits its aging potential.  

It was still pleasant, just not all that interesting or pleasant related to any aspect range.  It's interesting being exposed to old tea versions, even when some aren't relatively ideal, in order to place later experiences against that.  

Lessons learned, what might have been different

It was all fine for sharing some basic but interesting teas, and pleasant discussion.  Nothing really went wrong, or seemed like a gap.  

It was especially nice having a "tea expert" join to add depth to the discussion, since that friend is good about linking the ideas to background that relates, without spiraling the input into lots of tangents.  It could actually detract from the limited exposure if one were to fill in too much background, making it seem like a lot of other versions would work better as examples, or de-emphasizing personal experience, which is kind of the main point.  

Any given tea offers whatever experience it does, and people tend to relate to that better after plenty of exposure, in terms of placing it.  But it's still a communication skill to bring that across, at times related to leaving out a lot of what might be said, and limiting input to others to what is most helpful.

It came up in discussion how much these teas cost (which I didn't take contributions for; the purpose was just to share the tea exposure).  It wasn't much, since I bought a lot as local teas back in Thailand and Vietnam, and one was passed on by a vendor, and another was probably part of a tea exchange.

We never did justice to trying ordinary range Yunnan sheng pu'er, of any origin, type, or age.  We just didn't go there.  I had considered adding a version, since it would've worked as a foundation for later experience, but I don't think it would've been easy to relate to (although looking back we did try a nice basic Yiwu three years ago at that other local meetup).  

I mean young sheng, what I tend to drink, which tends to come across as challenging, in the most conventional forms.  I was going to try the one older version I have on hand with them, described in the last post about that earlier meetup, but it's only so-so, and it was more interesting to try a much older oolong version instead.  

There's no need to try to drink the ocean, related to trying as much range as possible in one quick types-survey form meetup; what we got to worked well as an introduction.

I have no pictures of that yard space, but this is a view from the same general area

Trying high quality Dan Cong in a Bangkok Chinatown tea shop

 

I visited my favorite tea shop to pick up some tea before I travel back to Hawaii, that CNNP cake I reviewed not long ago (a 2007 8281 Mengku origin sheng pu'er), and to get a bit of tea to give to monks I know on the way out of town.

While there the owner let me try some exceptional Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong (Chaozhou, Guangdong origin oolong, of course).  It was presented as from a single tea plant, which is possible, but you kind of never really know.  The quality was really high; it was at least one of the best Dan Cong versions I've ever tried, and maybe the best.  There wasn't that much room for improvement, only style difference.  

The pricing was eye-watering:  500 baht or $15 for 7 grams, so it's pretty much $2 / gram tea.  Too much, for an ordinary experience.  But I suppose people might see it as a unique experience they wouldn't get around to repeating, that "once in a lifetime" kind of theme.  I don't even consider such things; my tastes and appreciation are fine with drinking ordinary teas.  And I'm adapted to Bangkok pricing ranges, where you can eat a meal for a lot less than $15, or eat and also travel around all day.

To start we discussed processing, relative degree of oxidation and roast.  Kittichai, the owner, said that it wasn't in the modern very lightly oxidized and roasted form, that it was more in a medium range (for both), so a step towards a more traditional, older form.  Really whatever works best for that tea material is best, along with personal preference determining that.  It worked out.  

The scent of the tea was incredibly sweet and floral, or maybe floral and fruity, but very fragrant either way.  It didn't really come to life until he put it in a warmed gaiwan, then it did, even dry.  He was using 4 grams in an 70 ml or so gaiwan (not that I can assess volume like that).  Probably the infusions were even smaller, with the top that you don't fill and the tea taking up space.

It was bright, fresh, fragrant, and intense right away.  The taste was as fruity as floral, even though that type (Mi Lan Xiang) is described as honey orchid, and it's usually more floral than fruity.  It tasted like fresh lychee, the other owner claimed, and that was a good match, even if the power of suggestion may have helped cinch that judgement.

From there it intensified over a few rounds, really turning it up around the 4th infusion.  Sweetness was off the scale, astringency fairly moderate, although there was some, and flavor intensity was crazy.  It was really clean, with great aftertaste expression, and positive mouthfeel.  Good enough to justify the  $2 / gram value?  Who knows.  It was roughly as good as Dan Cong probably gets, although I suppose someone who has been exploring the high end of that range for awhile could judge better.

It didn't transition that much until around 9 rounds in, and then a little astringency started to pick up, which one might interpret as tasting like bitterness, even though the two things aren't the same at all.  It wasn't really pronounced until about the 10th infusion, and we let off around then, or maybe at 11 or 12.

Flavor complexity was so intense that you were just being blasted by floral and fruit range, so it might've been hard to do the normal round by round description of shifts.  If the relative balance of all that was there kept changing I didn't keep track.  It was definitely clean, sweet, intense, balanced, and complex.

I didn't mention the color; it started out with a pinkish sort of color, then I think it transitioned to a more typical light golden amber oolong range.  I'm not sure what that's about, the extra touch of pink, or if it signifies anything.

Packaging was definitely a bit much; it came in tiny aluminum canisters, like weed might be sold in, if there is such a thing as elaborately high end versions of that.  Then that was in a custom case.  This isn't so unusual for Chinese teas, presented as exceptional; they can go a little overboard.  I suppose status would be part of the appeal, drinking what is expensive, refined, and rare, and the packaging helps support that.  

Things are just different in China too.  One might expect lots of things to be rougher edged or more basic, somehow, but there's a broad higher end range of lots of types of experience or aesthetic context that's more the opposite.  Not that I've ever really been living the high life in China; I've visited that country three times, but as a value-oriented tourist (twice), and on a work trip once.  That almost leads into telling a story or two, doesn't it?  I probably shouldn't, but let's.

I went to China on business a long time ago now, maybe just over 15 years, so what I relate might be dated.  I'll skip the parts about the work context; it was somewhat IT related, since that's the field I work in, and from there it doesn't matter.  I was introduced to better tea in a Gong Fu ceremonial brewing demonstration at the company we visited (probably the one company you might think of).  

They were pretty good about not making it seem like tall, beautiful women were the norm in that country, even though they were that as hosts, and extending that not to make lots of claims about the tea brewing, hyping ancient traditional forms as being something they're generally not.  People might make wishes when they pour tea over tea pets; a fairly basic idea like that comes up.  Maybe that frog relates to money (it is holding a coin), and another to success with family, so it would be a good place / context for asking for a next child.  

Chinese people love to make wishes, as Thais do.  My wife loves to visit Hong Kong temples and go through all of that, or there are lots of Chinese temples in Thailand too.  We just happened to be walking into a local Chinese temple in Korat, Thailand, when we had just picked up Myra, our cat (then a kitten), back in 2021, so I took her in there and asked the multitude of Chinese gods to keep an eye on her.  So far so good.

 

some people might recognize this old Shenzhen mall space

Hong Kong; a temple, of course

Apparently drinking alcohol plays a role in business connections.  That's probably the last time I've been good and drunk.  The next time we met with another Chinese company I kept it bit more reeled in; it matches an expectation to go there, but it's really a bit much for me, as a non-drinker (now even more so, but mostly that back then too).

Enough stories.  Later I bought some tea in a shop, waiting for others to buy other things, and that started my next level of tea exploration.  But it was all normal enough.

Back to this tea, it was amazing.  Others would probably appreciate it a lot more than I did.  Earlier on in my exploration of teas I was really into broadening my horizons, and trying out exceptional range, and now I'm fine with just drinking good tea, and by that I mean anything with character and aspects one can appreciate.  That's most teas; they just offer different experiences.  Maybe the low end grocery store versions aren't like that, and other ranges that are comparable, but so, so much of tea range is interesting and pleasant, or at least just pleasant.

But it was nice having a unique experience.  I ran through a tasting set of pretty decent Dan Cong from ITea World a year or so ago (more now?), and it was nice trying the other types.  Mi Lan Xiang and Ya Shi / duck shit get most of the attention in "the West."  And they're often quite pleasant, so I suppose that they should, but others are also interesting.  I tried a number of them from Cindy, of Wuyi Origin, and that's a good source for exploring pretty far up the quality scale, at pricing that's quite fair for what they sell, even approaching $1 / gram.

Cindy!

Being more into sheng pu'er I don't even buy that much oolong now, of any kind.  Eventually I'll probably cycle back through a long exploration and experience phase again, but who knows how long that will take.  Good black tea is more my fallback, most often Dian Hong.  By good I don't mean searching out the high end, best of the best, I mean basic and pleasant.  And if good comparable forms are from Thailand and Vietnam I'll drink that instead, so I suppose calling that Dian Hong style tea is more accurate (DH adjacent?).

This shop sells pretty decent, upper medium quality tin packaged Dan Cong, at a much lower price point range.  That's more what I'd drink, but I only buy it there to give away to monks, to save my tea budget for the next sheng cake, or maybe black tea.

that tea I just bought, and already reviewed earlier, 2007, so perfect for getting to now

Bangkok Chinatown shop Tie Guan Yin and Jin Jun Mei

I'm reviewing two more tea samples from my favorite Chinatown tea shop, Jip Eu.  I was there to buy some other teas and they gave me them (many thanks).  

It turned out they're low-medium oxidation level / high roast level Tie Guan Yin (Chinese Fujian rolled oolong) and Jin Jun Mei, buds based black tea from the Wuyishan area, as opposed to the TGY being from Anxi.  I don't know the full producer details and back-story, so those are the primary origin areas, not a solid claim about the origin of these, but they're probably from those places.  That shop owner has family in those two parts of Fujian, so of course they would be from there.

These are kind of standard tea types.  That oxidation and roast combination for the oolong isn't the most standard form, but it comes up.  Jin Jun Mei is a well known black tea type, just a higher tier sort of theme tea, the opposite of a daily drinker.

This is their Facebook page, one potential contact for them (with their location here).  They have a Shopee outlet page (online sales platform), but it probably doesn't work to cite a link because the web page link details won't apply, but it's here):

I've bought some of that before.  I think the hexagonal tin three over from the bottom right is what I just bought, which I think was Da Yu We Dan Cong oolong, to give to a few monks.  Here's a somewhat recent Da Yu We Dan Cong review, if that background is of interest.

One might expect there to be a good bit of generality related to how pre-packaged tin based teas turn out, related to quality level.  It doesn't work that way.  It's just a packaging and distribution form; the teas can vary a lot, and do.  

In Western outlets we're accustomed to teas being presented in a certain way, then packaged and sold in certain ways (in multi-layer zip sealed bags, with printed labeling), but that kind of form doesn't really improve or detract from tea quality.  We're also accustomed to typical story telling.  Those stories definitely don't make the tea any better, and often if you know tea background well parts tend to be self-contradictory.  Some descriptions work as red flags:  tea master, 1000 year old tea tree, forest origin, etc.  A tea could still be really good even if many of the details a vendor passes on are wrong, if the plant type doesn't match, plant age story, the "master" part makes no sense, they describe oxidation level wrong, and so on.  It's better to go by how the teas are, but you need to try them to know that.

It's nice when Chinatown shops let you try tea after tea, so you know exactly what you are buying, but they don't at Jip Eu.  All of those teas in that image are sold as pre-packaged tins, and they wouldn't have very many of those open to taste from.  They're more of a local wholesale outlet for different grades of Wuyi Yancha, Fujian oolongs like Da Hong Pao, Rou Gui, and Shui Xian.  And then there are lots of versions of teas there no one would know about if they only visited a few times, and after visiting regularly for more than a half a dozen years I still usually try something I've never heard of there.

Shops set up like tourist attractions, where you can taste a lot of things, like Sen Xing Fa, tend to sell teas at higher mark-ups, so you get charged fairly directly for that tasting process.  Sometimes that's in your favor, since you only buy teas you like, but if you pay 25% more for teas that aren't quite as good then that's not favorable.  

It takes a long, long time to be able to judge trueness to type and quality level quickly and accurately.  I drank some of a sheng pu'er with them at that shop that day, an 8281 CNNP yellow label 2007 sheng pu'er, from Mengku, and reviewed a sample at home a week or so later, and my impression was not the same.  How could that be, since I've been drinking mostly sheng for 8 years or so?

Lots of factors enter in.  I was on a fast that day; what you've eaten or haven't eaten changes your sense of taste.  If you are in a hurry that makes your impression less clear.  In a shop they may brew tea slightly differently than you do, which changes things.  Using different water makes a difference.  

Some teas that come straight out of a warehouse storage area will be much better after they rest a few weeks, and air out a little.  Now that I think of it vendors always frame that as the teas needing rest from the trip when shipped, as if temperature and humidity variations affect them during travel, but especially for sheng pu'er it could be that being packed in with tons of other teas is good in one sense and temporarily negative in another; a musty edge picked up from that can fade fast.  The jet-lag theme for teas is usually about intensity being limited at first, for a couple of weeks, or longer.

If you try a half dozen teas at one time that can muddle your impression, especially if you keep mixing stronger and lighter types and versions.  If you can side-by-side taste a tea along with a benchmark version you know, at your home, taking time to settle down and focus in, you'll get a much clearer impression.  

Most of those tins are between $10 and $30, usually for 200 gram amounts, but in some cases for 100, which is on the low end of a normal range, 5 to 30 cents a gram.  Better quality oolong I've bought there was $30 (1000 baht) for 100 grams, at 30 cents a gram, which again is about right, for high demand, high quality Wuyi Yancha.  I've had good luck with Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong there in the past, I just wanted those monks to be able to try something else, so I didn't buy them that.

I'm pretty sure that I own a part of a cake of the 8001 CNNP tea shown in that photo, a 2006 version.  I'd go with the 8281 over that, because that 8001 is on the intense / heavy / burly side, unless someone loves that kind of character.  Or this 8653 Xiaguan cake (from 2006).  That's going to sound strange, to people who know these teas, because that 8653 has a strong barnyard sort of theme, with lots of saddle leather and old barn scent, but to me it works.  Much better than it did in 2022, 4 years ago, when I first reviewed it; that style range of tea can really use the full 20 years or more to age-transition (ferment).

On with this review then.

Review:

TGY:  this isn't really opened yet; the next round will work better for a description.  It's clearly quite roasted, which is a good sign if that balances well with a medium-high level of oxidation (not like black tea; I mean for oolong range), and a bad sign if it's used to cover up flaws, or to re-condition a stale tea version.  We'll see.

JJM:  this is pretty good.  There are a few different styles of Jin Jun Mei, or the range covers some scope, however one wants to frame that.  One style is bright, heavy on honey.  Another is warmer toned, a little closer to a conventional black tea, maybe including more dried fruit range, and slight earthiness or spice.  This is the second.  It does include some honey, and a touch of beeswax, along with a characteristic light dry edge that seems to pair with that beeswax.  Then the rest of the tone is warmer and deeper.  It's closer to rich spice, but hard to place.  There are bark spices out there that aren't cinnamon; maybe that.

Sweetness is good, it balances well, and feel is relatively full, even though this is just getting started.  It's good tea.  I'll need to keep brewing this quickly, at less than 10 seconds, even though this is probably 5 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan, a little less than I usually use.  The other will need to infuse for much longer to get it to open, more than 20 seconds, then probably backed off to 15 or so once it's brewing normally.

TGY #2:  this is much more complex, even though it's still not fully opened.  It's going to be nice.  It includes a bit of cinnamon, so it's not so far off the other in flavor range.  Rich floral tones are a little stronger, quite warm related to the roast effect pulling the whole flavor range to warm mineral.  I'd guess oxidation level wasn't all that high, since bright floral is still present too.  It's probably mineral tone that's warmer, and the two mix, making it seem like warm floral tone, when it's really not.  Sometimes teas like this can seem really out of balance, when there's a lot going on that doesn't completely match, but this is good, just not great.  

A friend shared a decent but moderately plain roasted oolong from Taiwan, that he bought in the airport there on the way back, and this is similar in style but slightly better.  It's not completely balanced, because inky mineral, some warm spice, and some lighter floral range are all mixing, and they don't sync together perfectly.  But it's pretty decent tea.  Maybe on the higher end Taiwanese scale not that good, but that's already filtering versions down a lot for a comparison range.  As teas go you would find in a Chinatown shop, anywhere, this is good.  It would've been nice if just a little more oxidation input had made it balance better.

JJM:  this is on another level, compared to the other.  A bit of sourness, that is picking up, offsets that high quality, very pleasant assessment, but it's still in a different range, just better.  Warm tones add a lot of complexity.  The honey and beeswax, now a lot more subdued, lend it complexity, as spice tones do.  The sourness is a bit much this round, related to it coming across completely positively, but people would have different tolerances for that, or preference range that makes it seem a neutral input, or else awful instead.  Apparently I'm in between; it's worse for including that, but it's not something that ruins the experience.  It would be nice if that evolves back out.

TGY #3:  this might just be where this is settling.  The balance of all of those inputs last round have shifted, but they're all still the same, beyond that.  A cinnamon note is nice; it kind of links the rest.  Warm mineral tones serve as a base, and decent sweetness.  It seems like the floral tone range probably is warming a bit.  Feel has some fullness, which is pleasant, but that's limited; an even higher quality range would probably feel thicker and fuller.  Same for aftertaste expression; it improves the tea including it, but it could be a little stronger.  All in all this is pretty good tea though, with a balanced, pleasant character.  Not perfectly balanced; in between a relative ideal and a tea that's a little off for lacking balance, again good but not great.

If someone loved this high roast, medium-low oxidation style, adjusting TGY character, they would probably assess this more positively.  I'd love a little more oxidation and a little less roast input more, and probably some variation of the Taiwanese Qing Xin cultivar instead.  It's pretty good for what it is though.  A pronounced ink sort of mineral note someone might love, or else dislike.  I don't see it as more positive than neutral, maybe even as a slight negative.

JJM #3:  this is balancing much better; that sourness is fading fast.  Tones have warmed; it includes lots of rich spice and now comes across more as warm mineral.  Brighter honey more or less dropped out.  This probably won't last long, before it's brewing much thinner infusions.  A lot of flavor has extracted out already.  The other took the first two infusions just to open up, and it's only brewing most of the material now, which was true of this much finer black leaf form within seconds.

TGY #4:  for people who haven't explored these ranges of tea a different theme would enter in that I'm not experiencing:  novelty.  I've not tried that many versions of teas in these styles and types, but maybe a half dozen quite roasted, medium-light oxidized TGY, and at least a half dozen JJM versions (not a half dozen in this narrower style range within that type; it's not like that).  It's really nice trying new tea range, but I have to be experiencing something unusually unique to include that.  

Then your favorites it's fine to repeat, over and over.  I could drink decent but ordinary Dian Hong (Yunnan black tea) half of the time, forever, and I tend to like sheng pu'er a little more than that, I just wouldn't tolerate repetition as well for any one version of that.  I suppose that I could drink just one of those relatively basic Vietnamese sheng versions I've been trying two days a week, all year.  These two teas I'm reviewing are nice but not my personal favorite types.

This round improves just marginally; it all hangs together in slightly better balance.  It probably will hold up that way for a few more rounds.  It has to be decent quality to do that (which is early to call, since this is still only a couple of rounds into being fully wetted).  

JJM #4:  this is as good as it's been as well; I suppose it could make a couple of more very positive infusions, and stretch on beyond that.  Warm tones stand out, but there's a lot going on.  The same flavor list applies, but that would be open to different interpretations.  A toffee note seems to be picking up, replacing the earlier honey, settling in where spice and limited mineral covered before.  The spice leans a little towards cacao now; that would make for a more reasonable interpretation, at this stage.  Warm mineral supports and balances that, so that it doesn't just taste like a candy bar.  You wouldn't associate it with sourness in this balance, but I suppose a very light part of it still is that.  

This is a pretty good place to leave off note taking.  These will change a little more over the next two rounds, and they're in a solid part of the infusion sequence now, very positive.  But 8 cups usually feels like a good bit at one time, and the intensity of that Jin Jun Mei has me really feeling these.  It's trivia that most people know, but buds only teas contain the highest amount of caffeine, and processing (the oxidation) barely offsets that any, so this black tea version may well contain 1 1/2 times as much as the older leaf oolong I'm comparing it to.  

At a guess sheng pu'er probably kicks in related to feel related to other compounds also contributing to the experience.  Or maybe it's just magic, "cha qi," the spirit of the earth carried by deep roots from tea trees.  Probably that takes on the form of specific compounds, but that's not as cool a story.

I'd recommend these to others to try.  Jin Jun Mei is an interesting and novel black tea type.  Unsmoked Lapsang Souchong can also be really nice.  I really like rolled oolongs made to balance more oxidation and less roast input, as I've mentioned, but that more traditional style is more rare now.  It might come up more in Taiwanese versions, than for Anxi origin Tie Guan Yin.  Inky mineral and light floral can be ok, evolving into richer spice tones, as this did, but the balance works better for the other style I'm describing, as I see it.