Bangkok tea shops and cafes; online Thai tea options

 

It's been awhile since I've written anything about this (6 1/2 years), and for whatever reasons discussing it has come up a half dozen times or so in the last month.  Lots of people visit lately.  Of course this list is centered on my own favorites, but I'll try to map out a range of other options.

Online options are included in the last section; people not able to shop locally in Bangkok might scan through the rest and focus more on that, or just skip ahead.

Edit:  I've added Maps links to these, along with the Facebook or website references they first included, so it should be easy to find out more about these options or to physically finding them.

My Favorites:

Jip Eu (Maps link): my favorite Chinatown shop, where the owners feel a bit like family.  On the positive side they carry lots of teas, lots of types even, and most are sold at great value.  On the negative side it's a hard place to shop, because there is no menu or listing of options, it's not easy to sort out what is in there, and quality and style varies a lot.  Their storage ages sheng pu'er fast--it's Bangkok, so hot and humid--but teas pick up a little extra mustiness, which tends to fade over 3 to 6 months.

They would taste some teas with guests but not over and over, not whatever is in the store; they're not set up as a tourist outlet, selling more to locals who already know what they like.  I never end up trying the same teas twice there.  Their specialization is Wuyi Yancha, rock oolongs from Fujian, but they also have Tie Guan Yin (from China, from Anxi), an odd mix of sheng versions, some aged, Dan Cong, a random selection of black teas, and a little of this and that beyond those.  There's not much Thai tea, but they would have some, maybe just no rolled oolong, the standard form, and no Thai sheng, what I like best.

I've met many kind people there; this is Sasha and Maddhurjya, and Kittichai on the right

Some teas there are good value but of very moderate quality.  A main offering is 50 to 100 baht boxes or paper wrapped squares of Chinese and Thai material blends ($2 to $3 per 70 to 100 grams; very inexpensive).  Sometimes a Shui Xian version (rock oolong again) can be medium quality instead, in those blends, so it can happen that a $3 selection would be equivalent to $10 or $20 worth in a US shop.  That's rare though; usually the quality is so-so for cheaper versions.  

Good higher end Wuyi Yancha tends to sell for 1000 baht / $30 for 100 grams, which is still a good value for being a completely different type of tea.  They don't carry a lot of sheng pu'er but some of the options they do have are good basics.  I keep buying Xiaguan tuochas there, and a fully fermentation-transitioned Tulin tuo is nice for trying basic aged tea range.

K. Mui Kee Tea (Maps link): probably not so different than Jip Eu, and just a block and a half away, another old Chinatown shop.  I've visited a few times but keep going to Jip Eu instead.  They sell different teas in dried tangerine peels (chen pi, the name of the peel sold alone, or sometimes used as a name for the stuffed dried peels).  Those are most often shu pu'er, but can be other types.  That might be good for novelty, for a gift for someone.  Wuyi Yancha or Dan Cong might be ok there but you'd have to try it to check on quality and value to know.

that shop owner is so nice, and I don't even really know him

Sen Xing Fa (Maps link; still on Chinatown shops):  a higher volume, more tourist oriented outlet, closer to the Yaowarat strip area, in a side street that sells a lot of street cafe food.  Selection of Thai and Taiwanese medium quality rolled oolongs is good, but value is just normal for those, with many selling for $15 to 20 per 100 to 200 grams or so.  Selection is broad but quality and value is all over the place; you need to try teas to see what's there.  

Where Jip Eu will try some teas with you, but would draw the line at tasting a lot of versions, or opening some of any kind, you can sit and drink lots of tea with them here.  You pay the price in value related to that though; some teas are good for the selling price, others not so much.  They carry more new / young sheng and shu than the other places already mentioned, and sell more teaware.  Per visiting with a new tea contact recently it's probably not the best place to be buying expensive clay pots, yixing and such.  Moderate quality teacups and the like would be the same as buying them anywhere else, but it's rare to see as broad a range of options as they have anywhere else in Bangkok.

VIP guests and a main owner

they hosted a nice meetup this year.  sheng cakes and teaware are on the other side of the shop

Ju Jen (Maps link) I've only been to this shop a few times but I'll  include it in favorites since my experiences have always been so positive.  It's way out there on Srinakarin road, out towards Bangna and the airport in the Paradise Park mall.  They seem to have a lot of variety, and I'm not sure if there is a specialization.  I bought some interesting mini cakes of pu'er last time I was there, 100 gram versions; that's a nice way to try something different, or it works for the gift theme.  

I'm not sure how many local Thai tea options they carry, but I did just review a pretty good Oriental Beauty / Dong Fang Mei Ren version from there, so at least some.  There seemed to be plenty of teaware around, but I have no idea where they stand on sorting versions or value for clay pots.

Zhennan cafe (Maps link): I've only visited here a couple of times, a cafe in Chinatown, but I suppose it fits here.  Tea selection is limited, and nothing so novel and amazing, related to it being so small, but it has a nice feel, which to me is what cafe experience is all about.  If the listed teas on a menu don't sound interesting they might carry others; it wouldn't hurt to ask.  

There may be lots of similar options all around Bangkok; I hear of other places like this but typically don't visit them.  To be honest I don't love spending any time in cafes; I'd rather buy loose tea and drink it at home.  But visiting that Chinatown can be rough; lots of ground to cover.  It's right beside a main alley market I'd highly recommend, which has a decent tea shop in it, and a few other places to buy very low grade tea and mass produced teaware.  That may sound off-putting to most tea enthusiasts but it can be nice to have an extra glass teapot or a number of extra small cups for gatherings, if you don't already.

an international tea expert and friend visiting Zhennan (John Lim)

the Zhennan cafe owner, and more of the interior

that Soi 6 market alley shop (note the alley has a different name from the North side)

what that market alley looks like

Classics:

Tea Dee (Maps link):  way out beside the Ju Jen shop in the Thanya Park mall there is a store that has long been a favorite among locals, which specializes in in-house sheng pu'er versions, and probably carries some factory versions too.  I've not been there in forever, since they moved from another nearby mall space, but given how they are viewed by others it seems to represent a standard option.  I've never been into the $1 / gram standard gushu sheng range, since that's not within my budget, but this might be the best place to buy that kind of thing in Bangkok.

This raises the question of how many other mall shops like here and Ju Jen are out there.  Very few others, I think.  There are tea shops, or booths selling limited range, but nothing I know of that specialty tea enthusiasts would seek out.  There had been a main one in the Paragon Mall, with a reputation for selling decent tea on the expensive side, but that's gone, and there's only a second branch somewhere else, as far as I know.  Royal Project shops exemplify what other mall-shop exceptions are like.

Royal Project stores (Maps link of one example): some of the oolong from Royal Project stores isn't bad; that's what introduced me to loose tea a dozen or more years ago here.  They're around, in malls and such, or there is one at the airport (Suvarnibhumi).  

For tea enthusiasts into above average quality Taiwanese rolled oolongs the quality probably just isn't good enough, but for buying some inexpensive gifts for people not yet into tea back home this may be perfect, or people would see "daily drinker" range in different ways.  They might carry an extra black or green tea but quality is kind of so-so, so sticking to the oolongs might be better.  Value is good for them, quality in relation to cost.  Tea selection is quite limited but dried fruit and whatever else is sold in those shops might be of interest.  Some sell boxes of plain tisanes presented as tea bag versions, which I buy once in awhile.

Double Dogs (Maps link): the main Chinatown (Yaowarat road) traditional Chinese cafe, also selling some cakes and loose teas.  It's really small; you might go in expecting that it may or may not work out for seating availability, or call ahead to reserve a space if it means a lot to you and you are on a tight schedule (which is no way to experience a Chinatown, but it can come up).  That Soi 7 market alley is right beside Double Dogs, and a wholesale area selling all sorts of random goods is all located on the South side of Yaowarat near here.  The main evening street food vending options are in the same area, as a few herb shops are, which is a good place to stock up on an extra kilogram of chrysanthemum, if one is into that.

this is actually half the cafe (credit a FB page photo)

Monsoon (Asok branch Maps link): local branches of a vendor based out of Chiang Mai.  Most of their selection is flavored teas, presented as wild-origin source material (which they are, but what that means probably isn't completely obvious).  For people open to that range or curious about that theme it's definitely worth checking out.  

There had been a small stall sort of outlet in one of the malls at Phrom Pong, I think in Em Quartier, but the main branch is at Asok, way back in the system of sois (side streets), behind the parts of that area that everyone knows about.  That shop isn't right beside the red-light "Soi Cowboy" area, but not far (but it's safe anywhere in Bangkok, even after dark; no need to worry).  They had sold kombucha at a small cafe type section; that might be nice.  

If value is a main concern then Chinatown shops are a better option; teas are priced at above average market rates, for what they are.  The teas are unique enough that there really is no market rate, so they wouldn't turn up in Chinatown, but you get the idea, you can find equivalent quality teas for less elsewhere, just not the same styles.  There is less to sort out than at Chinatown too; even though the range is mostly flavored blends it's all consistent, where in Chinatown you really don't want to drink any of the below average quality versions, related to it being bad and potential risk of contaminants exposure.

Monsoon holds interesting informative events, like this one on biodiversity research

Dayi / Taetea shops:  the two I've visited in town both closed but there are at least a couple of others.  Google search would let you know where; I don't know, and only mention them here for completeness.  That's the name of one of the three main Chinese factory producers of sheng and shu pu'er, for people not already clear on that.  I don't think seeking out these shops would make sense for buying oolong, black, or green teas, but I did buy two nice pressed white tea cakes in one, shou mei and gong mei.

Grocery stores:  of course this doesn't work, but there must be something to add about this.  I bought a Dayi Jia Ji sheng pu'er tuocha in a specialty grocery store once; exceptions come up.  Of course there are other places to buy those (Sen Xing Fa sells them, from the rest of this list, and Yunnan Sourcing or King Tea Mall are good sources online).  The Thai oolongs grocery stores sell are typically not above average, and average quality range here isn't so great.  

In China it is possible to buy so-so factory sheng pu'er in grocery stores; I just tried part of a cake that's running low I bought in Shenzhen on a visit back in 2019, which was decent--relatively speaking--in spite of selling for next to nothing, around $10 per cake.  Here it's better to avoid all of it, and sheng wouldn't turn up anyway (that one time was the only time I've seen it, except for sheng pu'er tea bags, which I'm not going to dignify with discussion here).  You might be curious about what an inexpensive box of loose Thai oolong might be like, Shui Xian made in more of a Wuyishan style, but it would almost always be pretty bad.  It's better to buy such a thing at shops like Jip Eu or K. Mui Kee Tea.

New options / different themes:

Koto Tea Space (Maps link):  I've never been to this place, but a friend runs it, so it must be nice (and the local buzz is positive too).  It's themed around Japanese tea experience, with emphasis on the aesthetic side, two parts of tea experience I generally try to avoid.  A setting looking nice is fine, some wood paneling, plants, or a water feature, but once there is too much of an elaborate decoration theme or people are wearing robes I'm out.

visiting would be worth it to meet Pop, the owner (photo credit their FB page, from 2021)

Peace Oriental (Maps link to one branch):  I think an earlier attempt at making a theme like that at Koto Tea Space didn't work for Peace Oriental, and they're on to being more of a standard cafe now, selling blended flavored iced teas and such, as well as more traditional versions.  It could still be interesting, if your path takes you near a branch.  I might've only visited one branch of this chain one time; again I'm just not that into cafes.  If you spend $10 on a decent pot of tea you might as well add 10 more and buy a decent tuocha's worth, or a passable 100 or 200 gram amount.  

Everything I'm saying here is a biased and one-sided take, of course.  I'm not into style as a main attraction in tea shops, and marketing spin pushing pricing for good basic version options to double what they sell for elsewhere.  Some people value style, and a "curation" function can seem to add value, beyond simple tea quality in relation to price.

their older theme was all white space; on to an updated natural materials look

the outlet I visited, which may be closed now

Ong Yong Choon (that is a Maps link) / other local shops:  there are countless places selling all sorts of variations of teas in Bangkok, hundreds if you count bubble tea and matcha outlets, or maybe even thousands.  This place I've named is an old-style tea shop near Wat Pho (a main temple), or more specifically beside the flower market beside Wat Pho.  

More conventional examples would be new forms of cafes, which keep opening and closing every year.  I've heard of 3 or 4 new versions this year but I'm only mentioning places I've not been to here when it makes sense to, when I've heard enough about them to reliably pass on what they are probably like.

Ong Yong Choon, the owners (who are so nice, as I keep saying about everyone)

Traditional shops / Cha Tra Meu:  I've still not mentioned anything about the orange flavored Thai tea, or the versions that look like teh tarik in Malaysia (pulled tea, with added reference to pouring it back and forth), often brewed in what looks like a small wind sock.  Both are around, they're just different kinds of things than specialty loose tea.  If you are in a really old-style restaurant or food court and see that old form of brewing you should try it out, but it's just inexpensive black tea with sweetened condensed milk.

The orange flavored version is something else.  Ordinarily I don't like artificially flavored teas, and it definitely is that, but that is tasty.  There's a shop selling it--Cha Tra Meu, the main one--in the building where I work, and I've never bought a take-out or loose tea version there.  It's not taste preference that stops me from having it; I avoid eating processed sugar and artificially flavored foods.  For exceptions I'll eat donuts and ice cream sometimes, but not drinks that are full of sugar.  For people who are more open to that buying a tin of the flavored loose black tea might be good.  Dairy Queen here did a Thai tea flavor promotion at one point and it's for best for my health that was temporary; it was too good.

In talking to someone recently about why it seems like there are gaps in what is sold in shops here a few factors seem to combine.  Tea awareness and demand is limited, and Chinatown shops already cover that for people who have been into tea for awhile.  Online options increase, sales through Facebook pages, and large Thai tea interest groups / marketplaces are crowded with people selling lots of things (this is only one example).  

Some of those group posts would just be reselling the best of what is sold by small producers through Facebook pages, teas you could buy directly for less, and a lot of the rest would be Taobao or Alibaba purchases, a lot of which wouldn't be good tea, or selling at a good value.  Over time people would probably sort out which individuals are most reliable, and turn-over would weed out some of the least reliable options.  There are limited Western-facing online sales options; let's consider those.

Online:

Unfortunately the best Thai sheng is only available online, as far as I know.  I guess that's a good thing for people reading this who would never make it to Bangkok?  Wawee Tea is a good starting point, a main traditional producer, and Ming Dee is perhaps the other main producer option.  Those kinds of producers would have Facebook pages, or there are lots of online shops in the two main online sales platforms here, Shoppee and Lazada.  I'll skip looking up links here; people can Google search or look up blog posts here that contain those names.  

I didn't really intend for this section to mostly be about Thai sheng; it just worked out that way.  At least some of these outlet sell teas way beyond that range, even though I'm discussing sheng most here, and not the oolongs or black teas as much.  It's what I buy most of and drink myself.

Tea Side is the main Western-facing website outlet.  Value isn't great through them, with decent sheng selling for between 50 cents and $1 per gram, when you can find equivalent versions for far less if you put more effort into it.  For people who don't see spending $100 to 200 as much expense for a tea order, and don't care what that works out to in relation to $ / gram, then they're a great option.  

Their products are consistently good.  Sheng options are fine, or black teas are good, Dian Hong style versions from Thailand.  Aged tea options are also good, but that $200 won't go very far buying from that range.  Their small-batch shu versions are good, and a gui fei bug-bitten rolled oolong was nice in the past.

Let's make that summary more specific related to buying a young version of Thai sheng; what if you wanted to buy a moderate cost, most recent Thai sheng version they sell, how would that go?  There are two identically priced at the lowest cost, $70 for 200 gram cakes, both from 2018, this one a more bitter version.  It's not 50 cents a gram, but that is $130+ for a standard cake, nearly double in-house boutique style productions by other vendors, or 1 1/2 times the higher end of that range.  At that pricing you have a lot of options.  A 2021 version sells for $85 for 200 grams; close enough to that 50 cents a gram level.  It's just not the kind of outlet option where you find this year's tea selling at all, never mind related to style and pricing variations.

Rishi--the US wholesale vendor--sells cakes from different countries, including Thailand; that would be another decent option.  There must be other Western vendors selling Thai sheng, I'm just not familiar with any.  

Let's dig a little deeper; how good would quality and value be?  This is a 2022 Wawee origin sheng "pu'er" version, selling for $45 for 200 grams.  I've bought tea similar to this over the past two years, for slightly less, but $80-some for a standard cake amount is definitely still fair, depending on aspect range and quality.  They carry some Laos teas too; for people who aren't concerned about the $80 or so per cake price range I expect those would be interesting in character, and safe bets for quality level.

I can't say that their teas are definitely as good as Tea Side's, because that's too much generalization, but it's my guess that it comes down to preference instead of quality, and some people might like them more.  It can be natural to assume that pricing must correspond to quality level but varying outlets set pricing differently, and carry different options, and equating cost with probable quality level doesn't work.

Moychay Thai forest tea initiative:  I've written about trying a cake from Moychay's partnership operation in Thailand, with tea versions selling through their Netherlands outlet.  It's tempting to try to describe their teas in relation to what Rishi or Tea Side is likely selling, or Wawee Tea and Ming Dee versions, but it can introduce a lot of error to generalize across a lot of versions, when I've only tried one (or two?; maybe a loose version as well).  The quality of what I tried was quite good, the material was obviously high in potential, and while the style wasn't a complete match for Yunnan versions I liked it.

That theme applies to a lot of South East Asian sheng I've tried; often it's not produced in exactly the same style as Yunnan versions, often varying in ways that I like just as much.  Oxidation level can creep up a bit, maybe due to not rushing the processing steps to offset that, or maybe it's that hotter and more humid local conditions let the tea transition faster during the limited processing time.  Or maybe heating step, the sha qing / kill-green / pan frying step, is slightly different.  Teas can end up trading out some bitterness, astringency, and aging potential for extra sweetness, initial complex flavors, and approachability.  For a version that you plan to drink within 2 to 3 years that can actually be positive; for long-term aging it's not favorable at all.  

It's possible that Tea Side filters what they sell to match Yunnan styles better, so their higher pricing level could be justified, for some.  Or maybe they just charge more; I'm not implying that aging potential / style issue maps out like that across most versions, related to Tea Side matching Yunnan style and Moychay being more like local Thai versions, although it matches my past experiences.

I re-tried a favorite Thai sheng from 2022 just this week--from a local source that's hard to access, not one described here--and it was much different and just as pleasant as last year, not seeming to show great potential for 15-20 year aging, but to me a fantastic tea for drinking right now.  It was not just on par with but slightly better than what I've sampled from all of these other producers (per my preference; that's not intended as an objective judgment).

In terms of positive experience and quality that Moychay tea I tried was good; I think it would also hold its own in the now-standard $80 per standard size cake range, a pricing that's a bit high for me to buy or drink a lot of, even though it's quite standard.  

This autumn version from them sells for 13 Euro ($14--what's up with the exchange rate?), for a 200 gram cake, so that's still very favorable pricing.  Autumn versions give up a little intensity and tend to cost less but that's still a great deal.  They list that one as "green tea," which I think is a translation issue, but it really could be pressed green tea, even though that existing--a pressed cake of green tea--would be stranger than getting a translation wrong.  

This other cake sold as sheng is 239 Euros for a standard size cake (on towards $250).  So it goes with buying pu'er; you can accept what someone says online as input but you never really know until you're tasting the tea, especially if the person offering input hasn't tried a specific version.  Style variations throw off the "good / not good" objective judgments; my absolute favorite Thai sheng not all other pu'er drinkers would even like.  

To complicate things further you can try 2 or 3 versions from a producer and think that those must map to all that they sell, good or bad, but that can vary a lot too.  Buying what they price the highest probably bumps the chances that you'll try their best versions, but even that might not be consistent.  Demand for a type shifts pricing just as much as quality, and many vendors just apply a standard mark-up, so if they get a good or bad deal on material / products your cost can vary by that factor more than quality level.  The smaller the vendor and less direct their source connection the more that applies, but in general pricing mark-up is a commercial function instead of relating to a quality judgement; it can vary a lot.

Tea meetup at a Bangkok Chinatown shop, Jip Eu

 

I've let the subject of tea tastings go for quite awhile, aside from holding one in Honolulu this year.  But a Bankgok Tea Tasting theme Facebook group I started has seen more members join this year than ever before, so it made sense to try to meet some of them.  I was going to my favorite Bangkok Chinatown shop to replace an aged sheng cake (Xiaguan) anyway, so I announced the visit as a meetup in that group.

Four others met with me for a pleasant tasting session there; their participation made the event work.  Writing about it is in part about communicating more to them about what we tried, what the teas were, and leads for buying similar teas.  Of course my main thanks go to Kittichai and his wife, the Jip Eu shop owners, for serving as the actual hosts; he was kind enough to share samples of several teas for us, and to keep pouring rounds for two hours.  For me it's always like visiting an aunt and uncle there, which makes buying good tea at great value all the more pleasant.

Conversation points

This is mainly about the teas, adding more about what they are, and reference links, but I wanted to also pass on the feel of discussion, even though I'll cite very little of it.  It's always interesting starting out with what people already like and experience of teas.  A good lead on visiting shops in Little India came up, but I've lost track of those details; maybe at the very back of Phahurat Market?  There's more on that area here.

Brief discussion of willow herb came up, aka Ivan Chay, a rare tisane type that can be oxidized.  I've tried some really nice versions of those, mostly from Moychay, and other novel and pleasant pressed mixed tisane bars.  It would be more odd that willow herb and tisane blends never caught on if decent tea wasn't also slow to gain acceptance.

From there lots of short tangents related to the teas we tried came up, so I'll skip on to that.

What we tried

2006 CNNP (/ Zhongcha) 8001 sheng pu'er:  later I was thinking about how the tasting theme went from heavy to light and back to heavy, kind of unusual.  I think maybe we had stopped by in the middle of two others trying this aged sheng pu'er, which is characteristic for one style (a bit heavy, earthy, slightly rough-edged for being this far through fermentation, definitely intense).  

Readers may think back to trying 17 year old sheng pu'er versions that seemed pretty fresh to them, still including bitterness, not fully transitioning from earlier slightly harsh range onto milder earthiness.  Storage input plays a big role, along with the initial starting point; Bangkok is as hot and humid as anywhere, pretty close to Malaysian storage.  It's not exactly like 20+ years in Hong Kong or Taiwan, but at least fermentation level is equivalent to that.  

I own part of a cake of this tea, reviewed here.  Note that I reviewed that 4 years ago, when it was 13 years old; those extra years of transition since have made a lot of difference.  Of the three more-aged versions--leaving out a Dayi purple label version in this discussion--I might like the CNNP the least, and see it as least refined, with heavy earth aspects that can come across as rough edges.  I've tried it in the last month or so, part of a normal routine of checking in, and it's good, but the other two I like better.  I have a spare cake of that Dayi sheng (reviewed here in 2020; it's better now too), but the Xiaguan runs a bit low.

silver needle style tea, from Fuding:  it came up that the range was a bit heavy, and Kittichai was nice to help switch theme back to the opposite extreme, brewing a pleasant silver needle version.  I didn't catch much for details; maybe this was partly aged, or maybe not.  My guess is that a slightly higher degree of initial oxidation than might be typical for the type added depth and heavier flavors, but both inputs (that and aging) could lead there, probably in slightly different forms.  It was really nice.  

It's hard to do a flavor-list review here by memory; plenty of mineral base stood out, it seemed quite floral, and there was at least one more aspect in there.  We weren't discussing teas in tea-tasting form, offering rounds of input about flavors and other experience, although more of that came up related to another version.

2022 Thai sheng (pu'er-like tea):  I brought some newish Thai sheng (not pu'er, to most, since that's a Yunnan-restricted designation), it seemed like a good time to try that, moving on to heavier but not exactly heavy range.  That shop specializes in Wuyi Yancha (Fujian rock oolong), and Kittichai has family roots in Wuyishan and Anxi, so trying Tie Guan Yin would also make sense.  We just didn't get to either.  To me Tie Guan Yin isn't the most interesting range, even though it can be pleasant, and it takes a lot of doing to get far with Wuyi Yancha, since you need prior exposure to place any given version, and to see how closely it matches your preference related to all the rest.  True of lots of tea types, I suppose, but with sheng my personal favorite we went ahead and tried a Thai version.

It was nice, fresh and sweet, intense, of course including plenty of bitterness.  There is a characteristic flavor range Thai sheng tends to cover, which I'd mostly describe as floral, but it seems possible that I'm missing one or two aspect descriptions that really pegs it.  I cover the source and reference a review in a later part about vendor background.  

It was fairly well received; people are often exposed mainly to young factory sheng versions instead, which can be a little more undrinkable.  Or to moderately aged versions, not onto optimum transition level yet, or to aged versions that don't express the full potential of the type range.  I suppose the CNNP version might've been guilty of that, but style and aspects relate to personal preference, and lots of aged sheng isn't "refined."

2006 Xiaguan 8653 sheng pu'er (full size cake):  this is what I was there to buy, and Kittichai offered us some to try.  I thought it was good.  It was better received by everyone joining.  To me it tasted a bit like aged leather, but another participant added that it covers a lot of the same scent range from smelling cigars in cedar storage, both the aromatic wood smell and the tobacco, which smells nothing like a burning cigar while in storage.  That really is it.  

I had tried the tea last about 3 days ago (after initially reviewing it last year), and it's much more refined than it had been just 6 months ago.  It has turned a corner in the aging cycle.  I bet in about 2 more years it will be really special, so that I should probably be buying a few of these, but my budget is fairly locked down these days, with the moving back and forth between Bangkok and Honolulu.

after a year more than half is gone; I'm drinking more than just to check on it

Vendor references

I wanted to add a few vendor references before this ran too long, related to what we tried.  Of course Jip Eu themselves are a great reference; all but one of those teas is from there.

Qing Fu Cha:  the owner of this online business, selling Thai sheng and Taiwanese oolong, joined with us.  I've tried some of their Thai sheng before (reviewed here) and it was quite nice, although I'll also mention other fantastic options for other versions.  Their FB page is here, and it's probably possible to find their teas in an online outlet shop, which Google search would identify if so.

Aphiwat:  a small local tea producer, selling Thai sheng, the source for that tea I brought (reviewed here last year, compared to one from Vietnam and to a version from Moychay).  I just ordered some from him today, which I suppose is tea blogger code for either that source's tea completely matched my preference or quality and value makes lots of sense, especially when I'm also listing other good source options here.  

An earlier review of a pressed cake version tells that story.  If I could live on only one tea version right now it would his, or Wawee Tea's.  I drank a 150 gram small cake in that first two-month stay in Honolulu, when my kids first started school there, and repeated that with another Thai tea I mention next on the next stay.

Wawee Tea:  a well-respected Thai sheng producer, who I wrote about here.  I've liked different things I tried from them, but one particular new version last year I couldn't stop myself from all but finishing in short order, almost a whole cake's worth in under two months.  

Mind you new sheng or the Thai sheng profile range isn't for everyone; Kittichai, the owner of Jip Eu, kind of gets it but doesn't love it like I do.  I don't think most versions are suitable for aging, and they would be fine, and a little different, a year or two later, but it's as well to burn straight through them.  You absolutely have to be ok with bitterness mixed with sweetness, and I definitely wasn't for the first half dozen years of trying sheng versions over and over.  Then it clicked.  I don't think there's any need to rush that, to see it as some higher form of preference; if you like it then you like it, and it's fine if you don't.

two of the teas I'm describing, compared with one from Vietnam

Moychay's Thai forest-origin initiative:  I might as well add a third exceptional source, related to Thai sheng I absolutely loved last year, this one, with more background on the source here.  It's possible that it's not quite as close a match to my preference as the other two versions, but in a way that's not fair, given that it was their initial production of the type, past early trials (or I suppose this maocha version was, but they're from about the same time).  

I bet they're right there with the other two producers already.  Wawee Tea has been a producer for decades, I think, and there are reviews in this blog of Aphiwat's teas from 2019.  My guess is that material quality is covered in their case too, that terroir and plant-type issues are dialed in.  All three versions were so similar, in such a narrow related style range, that it would take someone with plenty of exposure to notice differences and have a preference.  

those three teas

One thing I want to repeat to make it crystal clear:  the style of all three matches my own main preference; I don't mean to imply that these are better than teas from elsewhere, especially Yunnan, or even from Myanmar, Laos, and Vietnam, for that matter.  

Of course versions from the most valued narrow origin areas in Yunnan are superior in a few different ways, beyond better aging potential.  But if your preference matches mine something will really click when you first try a really good example, and your whole tea preference will shift a little.  If it's a first encounter with a tea with bitterness as a main aspect that probably won't happen, which is fine.

That Xiaguan cake must have been relatively undrinkable 17 years ago, when first produced.  Some other sheng versions hit an atypical fermentation transition "sweet spot" in the middle instead, softening and gaining depth without needing that decade and a half to be approachable.  But these two polar opposites seem the norm, to me, that sheng is often best within 2 years of being produced, or even right away, or only after nearly 20 years of very appropriate storage conditions input, or longer.  It was nice that we could experience that much of that range in just three versions in this outing.

2009 Yiwu Zheng and Bulangshan Qiaomu from Moychay

Yiwu left, Bulang right, in all photos

 

A bit random, I picked out some extra aged sheng sample versions I had from Moychay from quite awhile back to try and review.  They had passed on quite a few teas, in part related to helping out with some text review, and I reviewed a lot of them, but still have others on hand (many thanks to them!).  Oddly there are some really, really old teas in that set I just never got to.  Whenever I'm sitting down for a relaxing weekend tea and writing session I never feel like this is the perfect time to review something from the 70s, but I should go there at some point.  One is aged green tea, something I've always been curious about.

I had picked these expecting them to work as a contrast more than a comparison, since of course to the extent broad areas have regional characters Yiwu is known for producing sweeter, aromatic, and approachable sheng, low on bitterness, and Bulang sometimes more intense versions, although in some cases this isn't necessarily along the line of challenging astringency that requires a lot of aging.  But then generalizing by area has never been one of my things, because way too many factors tend to combine for that to be as meaningful as it's often presented to beginners.  Or maybe it's just that I don't have the memory or appropriate structured exploration approach to keep track?

This may make for an interesting read, an older TeaDB blog post reviewing a lot of Bulang versions.  They were about a year into blogging back then, in 2014, so it was commentary based on relatively little prior exposure, but it still might be interesting.  Their blogging history is six months ahead of my own starting point, both in 2013.  I suppose that input is all the more relevant because James was writing about teas from this time-frame then, since both these versions are from 2009.

The theme of these being relative opposites did work out, as described.  That's a far different experience than comparison reviewing two very similar teas, which enables zeroing in on minor character and aspect differences at much higher resolution, but it's still fine to note and pass on broad strokes.

Review:

Bulang (left) is a little darker; the Yiwu from the cake "beeng hole" could slow transition a little

2009 Yiwu Zheng:  interesting; I suppose both will be for two different reasons.  One issue that I've had with some Yiwu that I've tried in the past (not that it works to generalize across a broad region across many other inputs) was that intensity had dropped out with significant aging, leaving behind a rich experience with good depth but little flavor compared to where other aged sheng stands.  To an extent that's the case for this; it has positive warmer tones, and lighter wood or spice / vegetal range, but flavor is subtle, not so intense.  Compared to a less flavorful silver needle version that's not true at all, and the opposite experience of greater depth (feel range, complex warmer tones, some degree of aftertaste) makes it not come across as wispy, it's just not intense, as sheng pu'er across most of the standard range typically is.  

I'll do more with a flavor and other aspect list next time; that one observation works for a start.  It's positive, what I do experience, and it might improve considerably over a few rounds, so this is offered as an initial impression, not a developed or final judgement.  There's a trace of an aged book or furniture note in this that might be really nice, if the other aspects balance in a certain way.

2009 Bulangshan Qiaomu:  much more intense, of course.  Bitterness hasn't dropped out of this version, but lots of other rich, warm tones support that.  I suppose for this version I'll be saying that it would be better to try it in another five years instead, that it's just not at the most favorable part of the aging cycle, given where it started.  I don't need to project back to a likely starting point to try to determine that; I mean that based on what I'm experiencing now it seems to exhibit a lot of potential for further positive change.  Again I'll end up leaving these initial comments as more of a first impression than a developed description of the experience.  

To add a little to that part though a touch of mushroom comes across in this, which I would expect to fade to include more warm tones and different sharper / rougher range.  Warm mineral, along the lines of iron rust, stands out a lot; I would expect that to soften and transition to a sweeter, more approachable depth as well.  There's a hint of dried fruit tone in this; maybe that will develop.  Or maybe not a hint, a substantial input instead, but the other intense range makes it harder to appreciate as a main aspect.  

Aftertaste really lingers, but at this point it's mostly a sort of rust mineral range that's as negative as positive, so it's hard to appreciate that as a positive input.  I'll need to be careful about infusion time for this version; the other would be fine brewed for awhile, at high intensity, but this will be optimum in a much lighter range.  From wetted leaf appearance I'm brewing more of this version than the other, but the first was comprised of larger chunks, so I expect that it will expand a good bit, while this was all loose initially (the sample included a chunk and loose material, and I brewed the loose part).  It's probably more broken material as a result, which is bumping that astringency level, the way compounds extract much differently from broken material compared to whole leaves.

no need to mention that I don't believe in filtering

Yiwu Zheng, second infusion:  it's improving fast; this is sweeter, richer, warmer, and cleaner than the first infusion.  That happens; lots of sheng range cleans up or loosens up over the first two infusions.  Depth in this is nice, the way it's not intense in flavor but there's a lot going on at that one level, a lot of rich fullness, in feel and taste.  It's smooth, with no unpleasant inclusions, and essentially no bitterness, or at least very little.  For flavor range there is a cured (dried) hardwood range that stands out most, but then also a nice aged book sort of flavor, and some spice range that's hard to break apart as distinct descriptions.  It could be interpreted as vegetal too; it includes a warm richness that is present in roasted dried seaweed, just not the umami blast that shows up in Japanese green teas, the other part of that flavor experience.  

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone interpreting a main aspect as floral, it's just not the association I tend to make.  The way chrysanthemum adds a warm, rich, neutral flavor tone is very present in this.  I suppose I like it more for liking chrysanthemum, now that I think of that.  It's nice, and different.  I own a Yiwu sheng in this age range (a 2008) that's not so different, half of a brick I bought some years back, but this retains more intensity than that, with a bit more flavor complexity.  It works better for that.  I reviewed that tea in this 2019 post, but I've tried that in the past couple of months, checking out what it's like that much later on.  Odd in looking up that link I referred to a TeaDB post describing them trying a lot of Yiwu; what are the odds.

Bulangshan Qiaomu:  better; cleaner and sweeter.  This will also really hit its stride next round, I think.  Bitterness has scaled back already, and some of the richer complex flavors stand out a lot more.  The rust oriented warm tones are cleaning up to a nicer mineral range, with more spice and dried fruit showing through.  This will probably be even better after a half dozen infusions, the kind of sheng version that really shines in the second half of the rounds.  I'll need to eat a snack, walk around, and wait for awhile to get to that, for brewing way too much of these teas to gulp through in ten fast rounds of tasting.  I should've considered that; back to making the same mistake I did countless times when tasting such teas over past years, brewing two full gaiwans worth of sheng at the same time.

Astringency, bitterness, and a set of warm flavors seem to really link as a set.  In one sense it's quite clean; storage input or other material flaws don't seem to stand out.  In another, related to both flavor and feel, it's not in a very approachable place just now; I get a sense this kind of tea could be just great in another half dozen years, once transition goes just a little further.  If I owned a cake of this I'd be in no hurry to drink it, maybe trying a little every other year to see how it changes, not so much to experience that, just out of curiosity about how that works.  It's funny how I think the other version is only going to lose intensity from here, that it can pick up some warmer tones, but it's essentially where it will be, and as good as it will be.  Just guesses, of course.

Yiwu, third infusion:  brewed liquid color has evened out a bit; strange.  Both are on the reddish and dark side, as one might expect from 14 year old sheng.  Warm spice tones pick up, from the earlier set.  Woody or vegetal tone drops off, and the lighter chrysanthemum range warms.  Sweet rich tones are a little towards toffee, just somewhere in the middle instead.  Astringency can keep fading from a slight dryness to a smoother tone as this ages, but it's not at all challenging or unpleasant.

Bulang:  changes are positive; again this probably will be even nicer in late rounds.  The more challenging feel--a touch of dryness--and bitterness input, and rust mineral range, keeps scaling back, as richer, sweeter spice tones pick up.  This develops some of the aged furniture character that older sheng tends to pick up, which I guess relates to aromatic oils and fragrant warm wood tones.  Even in 3 or 4 more years I think this would be much nicer, but a half dozen should start in on whatever it's optimum will be, and it might be quite pleasant at 30 years old.

I might guess about storage conditions inputs, but that's hard to do without really knowing starting points.  14 years is plenty of time to know if storage is too wet; less pleasant heavier aspects will enter in, mustiness and such.  And to know if dry storage is suppressing a conventional transition pattern; teas stored like that change slowly, but bitterness will fade, and a slight sourness might develop.  Warm tones might seem to almost never enter in. 

Yiwu, fifth infusion (I skipped notes on the last round):  intensity isn't dropping out; it stays similar to how it was before, even though I'm trying a round brewed quite fast, under 10 seconds.  Again green wood flavor is as pronounced as anything else, which could be interpreted in all sorts of ways, as vegetal, as neutral tone spice, or flower input, etc.  It's fine; I can appreciate sheng in this character range.  I wouldn't want to drink it too often, and wouldn't spend too much on it, but it's nice.

Bulangshan:  this is the nicest this has been, quite a number of infusions in, and brewed very light.  The more challenging dry feel and edgy mineral tone have eased up, allowing as much of a balance of warmer mineral, towards-spice, and hinting at dried fruit range show through.  It's complex enough that no one part stands out, beyond that feel and mineral range a bit like rust, again softer in this round-transitioned and light brewed version.  

I tend to drink Xiaguan tuo versions that are not even close to ready sometimes, when I feel like it, checking out what middle of the process transition character is like, so this is far from the most challenging range I experience on a fairly regular basis.  It's also not what most people would probably prefer, really needing to keep going to get to more positive aged range.  At least it's quite clean in effect, beyond that one feel edge being a bit much, so the potential for positive development is quite good.  Again not in 3 or 4 years to finish mellowing out though; this could use another decade.  

I drank a benchmark cake type Xiaguan with breakfast today, the day after writing these notes when I edited this, a 2006 8653, which I guess this comment reminded me of trying.  There's an odd saddle-leather sort of flavor input in some Xiaguan, pronounced in that version, that I like, but that makes it impossible to compare this tea to.  For being a few years older and stored in Bangkok that tea is getting pretty close to where it should be for aging transition, with this 2009 version not all that close yet.

I doubt that it's going to shed much more light on these but I'll take notes on one more longer infusion, around 20 seconds instead, and move on to a more general assessment, of how good I think these are, how they both match my preference, and related to further aging potential.

Yiwu, #6:  that one edge of aged books / furniture is much stronger brewed longer; interesting.  I suppose that someone could appreciate that aspect on its own, or others might even dislike it.  Some green wood tone joins that, in a sense opposing it, since those aren't a natural pairing.  Other warm tones fill in depth, chrysanthemum tisane range, so overall complexity is fine, it's pleasant.  This would be nice in years to come, but it will just become more subtle, and the "greener" aspects will fade as much as they'll transition, I expect.  Within a half dozen years there won't be much flavor to appreciate, and warmth and depth will stand more alone.  I don't mind that, but it's not the most interesting final result.

Bulang:  this is the most pleasant this has been, and probably a series of minor positive changes are only going to start now, so the main review of what this tea has to offer is only beginning, right where I'm ending it.  The early faint mushroom is noticeable again brewed stronger, but there is plenty of clean aspect flavor range to go along with that now, towards dried fruit, or in a warm mineral range, not exactly onto seeming "inky," but towards that.  One part of the warmer mineral range almost matches how roasted Wuyi Yancha oolongs turn out, with underlying warm tones linking with a more forward range of higher end roast related input.  Bitterness is still present, but it balances with those other flavors and feel range better.  The dry feel is also still notable, a main part of the experience, but it has softened too, allowing flavor to stand out more as an input, even though the two are different parts of the same overall experience.  It's not bad.  It shows as much potential as it includes positive experience at this point, but it's still fine.

Conclusions:

Both of these seem relatively positive to me, like decent examples of those styles and fermentation levels.  Moychay aged sheng varies a lot, with some more inclusive of flaws and limitations, which is generally matched with inexpensive sales pricing.  Then some they seem to regard better, described in more positive terms, but I suppose perhaps more importantly selling for much less.  These may not be highest-tier, most positively regarded selections but both seem ok, pretty good.  

If it's not already explicit enough from those comments I tend to see sheng versions as interesting and positive, or not, based on their character, but tend to not try to situate them on a quality level or trueness to type scale.  Versions just vary too much for that to work well, across too many levels of aspects.  For some other tea types, for different types of black teas or oolongs, for example, it is much easier to zero in on a conventional form versions match or else don't, and to isolate aspects that work as quality level markers.  Let's go with an example, to describe what I mean.  

Dian Hong is a favorite black tea range, Yunnan black, which varies a lot in character (opposing what I'm setting out to express), but I like versions for being rich with good depth, complex in flavor range, and also simple and approachable in a different sense.  Positive flavor aspects, and flavor complexity and intensity, mark those as interesting and positive, with feel also factoring in, and to a lesser extent aftertaste (/ finish).  A half dozen flavors tend to come up more than others (roasted yam and sweet potato, cacao / chocolate, warm spice that's not necessarily often cinnamon but in that general direction), and sweetness level tends to be good, so it's down to a flavor set, intensity and complexity, and lack of flaws.  Here I've been describing a much broader flavor range, emphasizing feel a lot more (mouthfeel, although others do focus on effect, body feel), and stress aging transition as a main concern and input, with some of those aspects potentially regarded as either positive or negative depending on preference.  If you love Dian Hong those tend to be limited in appeal, good, or really good; it's not that complicated.  For other tea types specific flavor range or feel might serve as a "quality marker."

For the Yiwu limitations related to aging potential seem to stand out, how one type of initial character tends to evolve.  I've not said it but I take it as implied that I mean that sheng that starts sweeter, brighter, more aromatic, less bitter, less astringent, and more approachable as brand-new or 3 to 4 year old aged versions tend to fade later versus experiencing a lot of change-over.  It's hard to place why this went so far into green wood and even vegetal character (for me, at least), but limited bitterness and softer, richer feel indicate it's pretty far along towards initial levels of those changing over.  Then warmer tones didn't develop so much yet, and to some extent I think that they never will.  This will soften, deepen in character to a very limited extent, and will fade in intensity; there just isn't much left to indicate it can change to another form.  Which is fine if someone happens to love this character.  I can appreciate it, but I think I would like where the Bulang version ends up in another decade a lot more, or even 3 or 4 years, stored here in Bangkok.

The Bulang version is harder to appreciate as it stands now, with a dry feel and rust mineral flavor not an optimum experience.  In a sense it's still clean though.  It's possible that the rust mineral tone I'm discussing relates to what I've described earlier as sourness being caused by too dry storage conditions.  I'm not completely certain of that though; this tea is really in between well-preserved and an average level of transition for that 14 years of time, not at the one extreme.  At a guess it's an effect of this being in an odd place in transition form, changing from one thing to another, but not there yet.

I'm not the best person to guess if that one aspect range, the set, really, indicates good or poor further transition potential, or some particular initial character limitation, or a particular storage input.  Part of this character is so positive that I'd expect this has generally good aging potential, but a rough edge of a different form might seem slightly more positive, for example a harsh and rough feel versus this degree of dryness.  Maybe I never did make what I meant by that clear enough; it's feel that isn't unlike that from unripe fruit.  Still, in 5 or 10 years this will be quite different, and the potential seems generally good, if perhaps not optimum.  

It's interesting considering how this matches or is different from the 2006-7 range Xiaguan, Zhongcha, and Dayi versions I have, how those are perhaps slightly further along in transition, but were edgy as could be 2 to 3 years ago, not necessarily dry in feel but plenty rough, rougher than this is now.  [It's that comment that triggered me re-trying a 2006 Xiaguan cake version].  Anything I'm saying about guesses for how this will change over 5 to 10 more years are just that though, guesses, not really informed projections.

It will be interesting trying to look up website descriptions and placing these against what they say.  That could be very limited though, since Moychay descriptions don't generally aim to tell a full story for you like that, about how they place that against other range, or how they see aging potential playing out, or maybe even a full snapshot of current aspect experience.  They fill in some about what the teas are, and you need to take it from there.  It's interesting catching their site comments (usually automatically translated versions, since it's a Russian vendor, so people comment in Russian), where tea drinkers with very different experience levels and preferences try to fill in the rest.  Let's check that.

Moychay site information

Main Russian site, listing this 345 gram cake for $108:  

The bouquet of the ready-made tea is mature, woody-and-fruity with balsamic, autumnal, herbaceous, mushroom and nutty notes. The aroma is deep and warm, fruity-balsamic. The taste is dense, smooth and juicy-tart, sweetish, with fruity sourness, spicy nuances and a refreshing finish.

credit the Moychay site, of course

Some of it matches, but it's not generally helpful, since that conflicts with my impression as much as it matches it.

That lists for $136 on their Amsterdam site, which could seem unfair, for costing that much more, but if you add import shipping expense and some tax to that the increase may not include much profit, especially beyond allowance for extra handling and maintaining another storage facility.  They mention the producer, Yiwu Mengsong Chaye Zhanqiexian Gongsi Factory, which for most people would enable looking up background and comparable options more than it would ring a bell.  The description is essentially the same in both websites.

It's interesting considering flavor profile described in the first main site comment:

Tea with two characters.  Make the water hotter, the exposure longer - woody.  Cooled water, shorter strait - fruity...

Dried fruits, prunes, dried apricots in aroma.  Chill in the aftertaste, pleasant menthol...  The first infusions are quite dense, in the aroma of boards and fruits, depending on how long you brew... In later straits, apples and pieces of wood taste.

I don't know about all that.  Beyond the wood tones there is some fruit to experience, but it's more woody.  I suppose I could try to brew this at 80 C and see if it really does change everything.  Nope; I just did pour the water into the cup first to absorb out heat, then used that for brewing, and it's a little softer but not so different in flavor profile, as they describe.

Other reviews there mentioned lots of dried fruit and menthol.  I don't know; I don't see it.  More comments are from 2021 than present, and it would've been slightly different then, but all that dried fruit wouldn't have dropped out in two years of further aging.  Early floral tones can transition kind of fast, but that's something else, more pronounced over the first 3 years of aging, not from year 11 to 13.  If you read about dried fruit in a description it's easy to look for it, and then find it, even though in a blind tasting it might come across as a secondary input, or not something that you notice at all.  Let's check out the other one.

This main site listing is archived, so it has probably sold out.  There's no way to know what it listed for, the pricing, because that's not shown on an archive page, and there is no Wayback machine archive of this page.  Their description:

Sheng Puer from Menghai Juming Chachang Factory...

The bouquet of the ready-made tea is mature, woody-balsamic, with notes of oak moss, spicy herbs, autumn leaves and dried fruits. The aroma is deep and warm, complex, fruity-balsamic. The taste is full-bodied and mellow, tart, sweetish, with a slight bitterness, citrus sourness, nuances of spices and lemon-mint finish.

nice looking leaves

Again that doesn't match what I'm experiencing, but then interpretations do always vary.

Review comments are all over the place for this; there are no consistent consensus opinions to pass on.  I would think for this seeming to be listed in 2021 (when the comments occur) people would be mentioning aging potential versus what it's like now, and a couple comments do bring that up.  It would seem strange to me to drink straight through this as an 11 year old tea, back then.  Even now I might not check it again until 2024 if I owned a cake, maybe twice next year, then see how it is again in 2025.

Scanning comments some strange input comes up.  In regards to aroma someone mentions that "it's already close to shu pu'er," (really?!), then also claims that it tastes like dried fruit and grapefruit.  Here's an example I agree with more:

Liked it! Mint sheng) Minty-menthol flavors are often accompanied by a noticeable bitterness, and this one is very mild, slightly astringent, like a wild pear. And it seems that it can still be stored and it will only get better, although now the taste is already well balanced.

The potential and atypical feel stand out in my own notes, if not the mint and menthol reference.  Trying it again that kind of works, but that could be true of all sorts of descriptions.  One comment mentions that the pricing is moderate, which for Moychay aged versions might mean they had been listing it as a 11 year old version for under $100, or maybe around that.  It does need another 5 years to settle even now, two years later, but it should be pretty good in 2026, depending on how that dry feel issue settles out.

The nicest part is that Moychay sells these as samples, or intermediate amounts, so someone could try lots of different versions and see what they like, as with Yunnan Sourcing.  It wouldn't work well for someone outside of Russia, just now, but eventually that war will end, and their Amsterdam outlet is already available to anyone.  For that $136 Yiwu cake (on the Amsterdam outlet) a 25 gram sample sells for $9.50 (8.75 Euro; what's up with their exchange rate bottoming out like that?), so trying a good bit of it isn't so expensive.  At 40 cents a gram that's costly compared to young sheng whole-cake rates, but samples always work out like that, you pay more for opportunity to buy a little of a cake to try.

As to match to personal preference for both I appreciate a really broad range of types of sheng so both are ok for me.  The Yiwu I see as more ready now, with the Bulang version better set aside for some years.  I'm really into younger sheng these days, liking either nearly new more approachable versions, or how some that doesn't need 15 years of age works out after just 3 or 4 years.  I've been cycling back through all of what I own over the last few months, after being separated from my teas for two months at one point, so aged range is as familiar as ever, but I really like younger versions as much or more.  Not typical tuocha form teas, I don't mean, which really need a decade to settle, the other styles instead.

That shouldn't mean anything in particular to anyone; everyone is on whatever page they are, and that can change.  Most of this post covers that a main appeal of older sheng is that the transition patterns are interesting, an extra level to appreciate experientially, and to place within interpretation, and to try to match to preference.