Lai Chau (Vietnam) forest green tea, and Jin Xuan Fujian green

 

Viet Sun Deep Forest left, Moychay Jin Xuan right, in all photos

I'm comparison tasting a Moychay Jin Xuan green tea with a Viet Sun Lai Chau Deep Forest Green tea (the second from spring of 2026, with the first not listing a date, but probably from this year).

This comparison is really throwing the Moychay tea version to the wolves; I already know the Viet Sun tea is exceptional, from trying earlier forms.  It held its own well though.

Moychay sent a number of different samples to try, in part related to me helping with some editing.  It's much appreciated; it will be a great chance to try lots of familiar types, and some new ones.  Most of it is warmer toned versions, lots of black tea, oolongs, some fermented / hei cha range, even some flavored versions.  It makes sense that for a lot of the year in cooler European climate warmer teas would be favored.  Not just now, so much, when lighter teas would go better with a heat wave, but it'll be fall again soon, and spring wasn't so long ago.

This is the last tea I have to try from Viet Sun, from the last order (sent as a sample for review; I'd keep buying sheng and black tea from them, if I had included more than a few versions).  Green tea is more or less my least favorite category, but the exceptions can be nice, like this one.

One additional thing I wanted to mention:  Steve said that their sales were down this year.  It's not hard to guess why (not related to teas being unfavorable; they're good):  the economy can seem uncertain in lots of places now, and inflation already stresses plenty of people's budgets.  I wonder if there aren't other inputs though.

I'm not sure how Moychay's business either expands or flattens out in "the West;" I haven't kept up with hearing about that.  This is all supposed to just be about the teas anyway.

I'm also just coming out of a 6 day long illness, I think in decent shape for tasting.  I'll lose a little intensity and finer flavor sensitivity to this cold, but it's resolved enough that drinking light teas again makes sense.  For those more difficult days it was nice drinking mild black tea, not getting much of the flavor, but appreciating the depth.

the Viet Sun version; I forgot to take a picture of the dry leaves when tasting them

the Moychay tea; the leaves looked even finer in person

Let's check their sales page input for their descriptions, and pricing:

Lai Châu Deep Forest Green Spring 2026 (they're only selling 250 grams for $57.50 now, no other sizes, at 23 cents a gram)

A green tea made from same tea tree varietal as our Lào Cai Deep forest teas but on the Lai Châu side of the mountain range. 

The tea trees in this area are growing to heights of 10+ meters in the deep forest at 2200m+ in elevation. The rich biodiversity and natural growing conditions really make their way into the cup.

This tea brews up slowly into a rich, clear golden soup. The flavor is unique and complex. Reminds me of forest flower honey, herbs, strawberry or raspberry and wild grasses with a lot of umami. There are some similarities to Japanese green teas.

Light astringency and bitterness, thick mouthfeel, long rich huigan and relaxing qi.

Another interesting aspect of this tea is the aging potential. I have tried teas from past years and they get sweeter and richer over time. The honey notes become more prominent as well.

Maybe I was thinking of that other origin area green tea from them...

Green Tea Jin Xuan Lü Cha (they only list a 7 gram size for 2 Euros, 33 cents a gram, with the 50 gram size having been sold for 30 cents a gram, when it was available)

Jin Xuan Green Tea is a high-mountain green tea produced from the Jin Xuan oolong cultivar in Sanming City, Fujian Province. Grown at an average altitude of 1100 meters, the tea is cultivated by a sustainable agriculture enterprise, recognized nationally as a green tea production base.

Harvested by hand in April, the tea is picked as one bud with two leaves. Processing follows a traditional green tea method: sun withering, indoor airing, pan-firing (kill-green), rolling, and drying... 

...Its fragrance is rich and floral, accompanied by a distinct fresh soybean note. The taste is smooth, refreshing, and sweet, making it particularly enjoyable for daily drinking.

It's interesting considering that both are probably relatively safe tea options.  Producers surely aren't pouring fertilizer and pesticide on forest grown teas, and the Jin Xuan is presented as a sustainable production output.

Of course Jin Xuan is #12 in a series of developed cultivars (cross bred plant types) in Taiwan, produced a long time ago there.  Rolled oolongs here in Thailand tend to be Jin Xuan, #17 (Ruan Zhi or Bai Lu; kind of a long story about that naming), or maybe Tie Guan Yin or Qing Xin. 

Review:

Lai Chau, first infusion:  I brewed these quite light to start; I'm not sure why that made sense to me.  Flavor is nice, just light.  There's a freshness and depth to this, with good floral range and mineral base showing through already.  It will work better as a breakdown next round.  

Moychay Jin Xuan:  it's interesting how much umami this expresses.  That might throw off using personal preference as a main marker; I can appreciate how good Japanese teas are, but I like other styles more.  This could possibly be as good as the other tea, just much different in style.  The other tea expressed some umami, but this includes more.  It's a lot better than the Thai versions one might run across here, but that's typically a low bar to clear.  The oolongs are better, and most aren't great.

Brightness and freshness relate to the main range you experience, then floral depth and sweetness enters in, with lots of an umami edge.  It seems this will balance well, and be quite complex, again easier to describe as a breakdown next round.

Lai Chau #2:  lots of intensity; brewing this 6 or so grams for over 10 seconds provides an intense infusion.  Floral range is so sweet, rich, and intense that this tastes like perfume smells.  You get some vegetal range with that, that's hard to describe, maybe along the line of deep forest fern (like the scent; you don't eat those).  After you drink it a strong aftertaste and full feel occurs in the back of your mouth, not just the throat, but the entire rear part.  Mineral stands out in that, not light or warm mineral, but mineral with depth, a range of it.  It's all quite clean.  Maybe a touch of pine bark is there, beyond those described aspects, but that's clean too.

It's complex; it would work to use other descriptions.  There is some umami.  Floral range is complex; there's a lot one could associate with it, probably as a few notes, or a range of them.  One catchy part is rich and deep, like lavender, but there's more to it.  Related to vegetal range sugar snap pea sort of applies.

Jin Xuan:  that umami hits you first, then such a strong floral input that in some teas you'd think this was altered.  But it doesn't work out that flavor-adjusted teas show the added flavor more after the first round; that kind of thing extracts right away.  And I don't think it's even possible to add umami like this.  This tea is clearly natural, it's just distinctive and unique.  

Others could place this in relation to Japanese green tea range better than I can, maybe a specific type of sencha.  It's there, with that umami, and rich floral range expression, good intensity, clean nature, good balance, refinement, etc.  Aftertaste is sweet and umami range combined.  This does hold its own with the other version.  Even for living in a country that produces a lot of Jin Xuan cultivar, and trying plenty from Taiwan (typically oolongs though, in both places) this is probably the best green tea version I've tried from that plant type.  It would be more impressive if that came up more often, but it's still really good.

In trying the last of the other there's a savory note in it too, but it's more a sun-dried tomato oriented aspect, where this is closer to the seaweed umami, it just doesn't really taste like seaweed.

Lai Chau #3:  it falls into a nice balance, with all of those layers and levels combining well.  But it's not really different.  It's nice the way that a savory sun-dried tomato umami depth ties the rest together, and how it all balances.  It's an unusually complex version of green tea.

Jin Xuan:  the proportion of those flavors changed, with umami and a specific floral note really standing out.  It also expresses depth, complexity, and balance, but those two notes stand out more than the rest.

Lai Chau #4:  vegetal range is standing out a little more; in one sense this is already fading, or at least changing, I suppose to be less positive.  It still has lots to offer though.  Perfume-like floral range is pronounced, and lots of aspects combine together.  The feel is still full and rich.

Jin Xuan:  maybe it was already transitioning towards this in the last round, but a savory note tastes a lot like toasted rice, like that flavor aspect in Longjing.  It's interesting, positioned along with a seaweed oriented umami flavor, and a good bit of rich floral range.  That still resembles lavender, to me.

Intensity, depth, and complexity are pronounced in this; it more than holds its own.  But as you go back and taste the other tea after even for giving up a little in intensity and range it's still just as pleasant, for those other flavors combining so well.  Both are holding up well, but then it is only the fourth round.

They both brewed a couple more really nice infusions, and weren't dead even after that, but I stopped taking notes there.

Conclusions:

I'm surprised that I liked the Moychay Jin Xuan as much as I did, and that it represented that high a quality level.  It's one of the better green teas I've tried in a long time, and even people accustomed to better Japanese green tea would probably love it, and also be surprised by it.  The dominant umami transitioning to other range made it better for me; the other floral tones and additional complexity worked well.  I didn't expect all of that.

But then the Viet Sun deep forest green tea was as good as I remember, very distinctive and pleasant.  I suppose due to me liking the flavor aspect range better I did like it better than the other version, but it might work to objectively say that the Jin Xuan version is slightly better quality tea.  It was more refined, with both being quite complex, and a little more distinctive in style.

Related to value both are kind of equivalent.  The Vietnamese version is selling for 23 cents a gram (at higher volume; equating volume would level out the difference), and the Chinese Jin Xuan for 30, but one already went through import to Europe, which adds cost, and potential value, for people paying different import taxes depending on origin there.  Tea as good as either would still be a decent value if selling for more; these were both exceptional.

So the only catch is that I'm a sheng pu'er drinker, and that I like black tea and varying oolong types best as fall-backs.  I like novel and pleasant hei cha versions more than green tea, which I can still appreciate, but I just never end up buying it.  I had routinely made an exception for Longjing, for years, but now I just stick to those others, and buy mostly sheng, and some black tea.

For people who really do like green tea, and want to explore what these two vendors sell, these are both good options.

Marmalade grows up fast

Comparing green teas from Vietnam, China, and Japan

 

This is all a bit much.  A recent comparison of three different sheng versions also was, but to me the results were interesting, and they helped place some general themes that were playing out.  I'm trying something even less narrow and reasonable in range this time, trying three different green teas together.

Why is this a problem?  For one reason because I'm just getting over a flu.  Yesterday was one of few days I skipped drinking tea, and while sick for a few days before that I would sometimes split drinking a version over two days (twice).

For more standard reasons because of the range of styles and aspects.  Of course the Japanese tea (a sencha) is going to cover mostly umami and vegetal flavors, including seaweed, and the other two won't.  Both of the others are "wild origin" green versions, so trying them together would make more sense.  

But I wanted to check on to what extent this broad-scope approach could provide input about the entire range.  Is there more to it about Japanese green differences than just that flavor range?  Does some particular rough edge or off flavors identify a lower quality level for either of the others?  Did a factor like limited oxidation input seem to come up for any?  Probably more than I addressed, actually; this doesn't speculate about that.  Is this a hit or a miss for another ITea World version?  Most of theirs have been pretty decent, but some less so than others.

I'll add information about the teas after tasting, during editing, the usual process.

Viet Sun Lai Châu Deep Forest Green Spring 2024 ($23 for 100 grams)

The tea trees in this area are growing to heights of 10+ meters in the deep forest at 2200m+ in elevation. The rich biodiversity and natural growing conditions really make their way into the cup.

This tea brews up slowly into a rich, clear golden soup. The flavor is unique and complex. Reminds me of forest flower honey, herbs, strawberry or raspberry and wild grasses with a lot of umami. There are some similarities to Japanese green teas.

Just a touch of astringency, no bitterness, thick mouthfeel, rich huigan and relaxing qi... 

Another interesting aspect of this tea is the aging potential. I have tried teas from past years and they get sweeter and richer over time. The honey notes become more prominent as well.

ITea World Chinese Shan Ye Wild Green Tea ($25 for 40 grams)

There is no text description, so this picture will do.  

Related to value this already looks pretty bad for the ITea World product comparison, since I'll jump ahead and say that I liked the Viet Sun version better, and this costs slightly more for 40 grams of it than 100 grams of the Vietnamese version.  It is very novel in style, and supply and demand factors can be complicated, but that's a pretty one-sided comparison.  

It expressed one very minor flaw early in rounds, which I'll get around to explaining, and people could see that differently, perhaps as not a flaw at all.  It would be possible to see a limitation in intensity, present in the Viet Sun version, as a significant flaw instead, which I sort of didn't, since it's so easy to correct for that with brewing approach.

That vendor asked me to mention a "summer sale," which normally I don't do, but it seems like a nice balancing point to saying this particular tea isn't worth it.  There are details on their website.  The strength of this vendor has been offering pretty decent sample sets, at good value, with a relatively low free shipping threshold, if I remember right.  I wouldn't buy a lot of any of their teas without exploring them through samples first, but some are pretty good, novel and a good value.  Some basics match conventional styles well, this particular tea just isn't shooting for that.

This is probably a good vendor option for first exploring medium quality teas, or for a gift related to the same purpose.  Later on if someone is seeking out even higher quality, or best of best value, then often two different other kinds of vendors cover those better.  Or Viet Sun and Tea Mania are pretty solid across a broad range; it doesn't have to just be one part of that.

Tea Mania HANDPICKED HONYAMA SENCHA  ($32 for 50 grams)

 

Honyama (also known as Tamakawa) is considered by connoisseurs of Japanese Sencha teas as one of the top growing areas. In Honyama, where the Abe River springs, are ideal conditions for top quality tea. The nights are clear and cool and the morning misty. The narrow valleys also ensure natural shading of the tea fields. So it is not surprising that the tea leaves in this area are about one month later ready for harvest compared to tea from the low-lying areas near Shizuoka city.

The tea leaves for this handpicked Honyama Sencha where manually harvested by Mr. Shoten’s family. Therefore, the leaves are longer and more intact compared to does harvest by machines. Also, the stems get less damaged as they are picked at the plant’s natural breaking point. Thus, the tea leaves get less oxidized and taste even more refreshing.

It’s said that tea from Honyama was Shogun Tokugawa’s favorite tea. After tasting this tea we strongly believe this lore.

To me a lot of story line in marketing content is often a red flag; I'd rather buy the tea itself than the story.  For sure this is great quality Japanese green tea though, and it would mean a lot more to people on that page than it does to me (the tea quality; the story could go either way).  

People on that page would be better at brewing them than I am too; I really botched that in this tasting.  I got some sense of the tea but didn't experience it in optimum form.  Doing a lot of things at one time can be tricky, and I was already hazy as could be for only being most of the way recovered from a flu.

This cost $64 for 100 grams instead of $23 for the Viet Sun version; is it that much better?  That's kind of not even the right question, I don't think.  It's a completely different style of tea.  I wouldn't be the one to know but at a guess this is still probably pretty decent value, because it's not an ordinary range green tea version, it's a distinctive, good quality Japanese green tea.  I don't really love that but I get it; it's an in-demand style range.

Review:

Viet Sun Lai Chau Deep Forest Green, 2024:  it's interesting how some of the flavor range is still evolving and some stands out so much right away.  There's plenty of umami in this; that won't be a complete difference.  I'm a little concerned that the lack of sweetness and missing part of a normal flavor profile may relate to my palate.  These findings will be of limited value if I'm missing part of a sense of taste, which really could be the case.  I stopped being quite sick a few days ago but this illness just won't end.

ITea World Shan Ye Wild Green Tea:  vegetal range is so strong in this, maybe mostly centered on green beans, but also including a green vegetable range along the line of kale.  It wouldn't be surprising if this is a close match for a leafy vegetable I'm not familiar with.  From there a really strong mineral layer stands out, so strong that it might extend to taste a little like tobacco, or even a hint of ash.  It's not positive.  

The darker color leaf and liquid suggests this may have oxidized a little, but who knows.  It definitely includes quite a bit of bud content, the only version of the three to do so.  I'll need to keep brewing times limited for this to be approachable.

Tea Mania Honyama Sencha (Yabukita plant type):  that's too strong to drink.  All three were brewed for the same time, with one light, one a bit strong, and this one undrinkable.  Apparently there's a learning curve for Japanese green tea I need to go back through; it's been a number of years.  I can try to dilute it a little to get a sense of it but essentially it's better luck next round.  I used half as much leaf for this version as the other two, by appearance, recognizing that it would be a lot more dense, but I missed getting that right by a lot.

Even diluted there's not much to add; it's promising, but not ok to drink in this form.  This probably won't stand up to brewing using water this hot either, which is far too hot for normal green tea, unless someone is on the page of brewing them around 90 C or so.  I'll drop the temperature for all three, and will stick with flash infusions for this.

Using hot water can be ok for some green tea types (not full boiling point, maybe, but not so far off that); it just depends.  Preference factors in too, but also some won't extract objectionable range compounds and aspects all that fast, so you can carry on using fast infusion times to limit that.  Typically Japanese green teas aren't regarded as suitable for this approach.  Peter of Tea Mania sent two versions of sencha, or maybe the other was "white sencha," whatever that would be; maybe I'll get back to trying this again with approach dialed in.  After botching it a few more rounds here though, even after adjustments.

Viet Sun #2:  not intense enough; this needed to brew longer.  It's odd that the other two are way too strong, with the sencha at what looks to be a higher proportion, then this is still too light.  I'll do more of a flavor list next round.  What comes across is pleasant; light floral range, decent sweetness, no overpowering umami, astringency, or pronounced vegetal range.

ITea World Shan Ye:  that one mineral note leans more towards ash; that's a little off-putting.  The rest is nice, pleasant and interesting.  These are a bit light to base a developed opinion on but without that one note they seem kind of equivalent, and with it considered the Vietnamese tea is better.

Tea Mania sencha:  drinkable; at least it's that close to optimally brewed.  There's the intense, pronounced umami that people seek out.  It tastes like seaweed, with some floral range entering in beyond that.  I think this is a range of tea that you have to acclimate to like, or it would be like that for most.  I've drank some sencha, some hundreds of grams worth, but nothing like most of the rest of the tea types I prefer more, kgs of pu'er, oolong of different types, and black teas.

The things people would center in on as most desirable in this style and type range wouldn't be completely familiar to me; I'd be guessing.  Of course pronounced umami is part of that, and other flavor complexity, aftertaste experience, mineral layer input, and so on.  But I mean that often very limited parts of an aspect set can work as quality markers, as identifiers between good and very good versions, with typical flaws as the opposite side of those considerations.  

When I scan through sencha reviews in a place My Japanese Green Tea blog I can't help but think "what's all this, brother?"  Or at least that's it framed within one of Keoni's favorite meme forms.

Vietnamese #3:  it was extra messing around but I brewed this using much hotter water than the other two.  Not for too long, but enough that it seemed it would extract well.  This is pleasant but still subtle.  That's interesting; for other tea types that could come up, and could be normal, but a subtle version of green tea is odd.  I had tried the 2023 version and don't remember that as part of the experience.

The aspects that are there are quite positive; this is my favorite of the three.  You would just need to push this a little harder to get intensity back into a normal range, using slightly hotter water, or longer infusion time.  Aspect set would vary depending on which approach you took.  Again there is some floral range to this, and limited vegetal scope, but I suppose some.  It's near a neutral sugar-snap pea input, versus green beans or seaweed, much heavier and more dominant range.  Sweetness is pretty good, and tone is light.  I don't mean intensity, I mean brightness versus warmth of flavors; it's "bright."  

If I just liked green tea more I'd really like this more.  As it is I could still drink a good bit of it.

Chinese Shan Ye:  I never will have any idea why there's an ashy sort of limited intensity edge to this.  It also includes a malty sort of character; that part is nice, and unique.  Tone is much warmer than for the first.  Feel is thicker; there's more to it on that one level.  Floral range is less bright and sweet than for the Vietnamese version, I guess in a wildflower sort of range, but possibly more complex, with more happening along that line.  Vegetal range is more towards cured hay, tying in with or just being an alternative interpretation of what I've described as malty (Ovaltine malty, not like Assam).

With the absolute slightest change of that one flavor note not being present this would come across much differently.  It's barely perceptible now anyway, having faded over the rounds, but at least related to how I see teas there are some flavor inputs that can disproportionately shift a general impression.  A hint of cacao or cherry in a black tea can change everything, and a touch of tartness can cause an opposite less favorable impression.  In green teas a little extra kale flavor can really throw things off, and a bright floral note can shift it all the other way.  That smoke could be ok if it wasn't as close to ash range.  It's all but gone anyway in this round, and should be clear in the next.

Sencha:  it's interesting trying a much stronger tea in this version.  This proportion is wrong; this should be made from half as much leaf.  But it's brewed fast using quite cool water, so it's still not optimum but it's fine.  Everything it expresses is intense:  umami, some seaweed, floral range, sweetness, and now an increased mineral layer.  As a sheng drinker I should see that as somewhat positive; why shouldn't it be intense?  And I do, but the umami takes some getting used to.  

20 years ago I really couldn't relate to seaweed much at all (beyond eating a good bit of sushi eons ago, but I'll leave that part out), and gradually over the years it just kept coming up living in Bangkok.  My wife ate mostly Japanese food when pregnant with Keoni, 16 years ago.  She said the he was "ordering it," essentially.  That was right after spending two years in Hawaii, and people love it there too.  

But half the time I have ramen I hand over the pressed square of it to Kalani, who loves it, even though that form is mild and pleasant.  This is a level more intense, for seaweed related flavor input, but it's still ok.  I suppose it's still odd to me that people choose to have this experience, that they pay extra for it being so pronounced.  Then again the sheng pu'er I drink often tastes like taking an aspirin, and that took me a half dozen years of routine exposure to prefer.

Viet Sun Vietnamese #4:  this should be enough notes, and plenty of tea.  I've thrown out the last of most rounds, to keep this manageable, but I've also drank most of 9 small cups of tea so far.  

Bright floral, good sweetness, limited and pleasant vegetal range, again like sugar snap pea.  There's probably more going on with this related to round-to-round transition that I'm missing; brewing approach has been a little rough.  Feel could be thicker and richer but it's fine like this to me; there's no need for all the parts to be intense.  Someone looking for "quality markers" might see it as falling short but to me the balance works.  Intensity is a little limited, but it's easy to adjust brewing to dial that up.  Not much comes across as a flaw in this, to me, although again limited intensity could be seen that way.  And it's distinctive enough, even if the other two are more novel, looked at one way.  It's my favorite of the three.

ITea World Shan Ye:  that warm rich tone comes across more like toasted rice than cured hay or malt, this round.  That's familiar ground, closer to Longjing style.  If all the earlier infusions had been more similar to this one, varying some but not so different, this would've been better.  Again it's probably possible to dial in more optimum results by tweaking brewing.  For good Longjing you don't need to do that, of course; you can brew it at full boiling point, or much cooler, and not letting it get too strong is about the only limitation to work around.  

That one minor aspect really threw off the first few rounds, for me.  This is still pretty good though, and brewed Western style after a quick rinse it may have been much better.

Tea Mania sencha:  as described in the last two rounds again.  Even though Longjing is my favorite green tea type, and I've just described the Shan Ye version of settling near that typical character, I can still see the appeal in this.  It's clearly better tea, in a few senses.  It's more intense and complex, and a bit sweeter, with no significant flaws.  Even the strong umami and seaweed flavor I don't hate.  I suppose floral range has drawn closer to seaweed, so now it balances both.  If you aren't accustomed to that flavor then even at a lower level it really stands out.  I've eaten ramen with seaweed a few times in the past month, mostly going off miso soup lately, but I definitely don't seek out that range of experience (the seaweed part).

It's odd drinking and reviewing a sencha and going on and on about placing umami and seaweed flavor.  Surely most people know what they're getting into, and are there for that.

This is probably complete heresy but to me sencha works better with food than drank alone.  That reminds me of a critique of a whiskey version saying that's it's ok but it's better mixed with Coke.  Surely the quality level is so good in this version that plenty of people would appreciate it in a completely different way than I can.

Conclusions:

To me really late rounds transitions aren't much of the main story but a couple were interesting.  The ITea World tea tasted a good bit like fennel seed in the last couple of rounds, beyond those.  The sencha picked up an unusual vegetal character, which reminded me of the taste when you bite a watermelon seed.  Then the Viet Sun tea stayed pretty much the same.

I'm not sure how well that post worked related to judging teas across the main criteria I often use:  related to writing out an aspects set, in comparison with my own personal preference, as being true to type for a known version, or placed in relation to some objective quality level.  

The Vietnamese tea represented a standard, general wild-origin green tea type well enough, but there isn't a narrow character range expectation for that.  The Japanese green tea was probably the only one that could be judged against pre-determined type expectations, but I don't have the proper background to dial that in to finer level comparison.  It seemed really good quality to me, but then I don't love sencha.

The Chinese green tea was perhaps the most novel, and it was one very minor flaw away from being much better than I judged it to be.  If it had only had a hint of smoke included instead of what came across as a touch of ash flavor.  I suspect plenty of local producer teas can pick up just a little smoke flavor from incidental contact in being around the processing environment, where fire is used for heating.  It had been a lot more common for sheng pu'er versions in the past.  I have no idea why that inclusion took an unconventional form this time.

It's always interesting reviewing green teas, as my least favorite main category version.  I don't like any of these quite as much as Hinyang Maojian and Himjian versions I tried not so long ago; those were something else.  But then I wouldn't buy those to drink either, pretty much no matter what they cost.  Somehow I crave some good Longjing once in awhile and that's about it.

On a personal note suffering is what I've been up to, with that flu not the worst of it.  I wasn't on this flight; the rest of my family is back in Honolulu again.  I'll visit before too long, and until then some cats and I hold down the fort in Bangkok.

Eye, my wife, had a uniquely rough week.  She went through a flu too, and an injury related to slipping and falling that last week (hence the extra equipment).  She's tough as nails though; she was more concerned about the kids playing too many video games than the beating life had put on her just then.

Viet Sun Lai Chau Deep Forest Green

I'm trying a Viet Sun Vietnamese Lai Chau Deep Forest Green tea.  That's almost enough description already.  

It's from 2022; I must have received this with an earlier order and not got around to trying it.  Even though almost no one drinks year and a half old green tea it should be fine.  It will be interesting to guess how it might have changed. 

This is the web page description for the 2023 version, now out of stock:

The tea trees in this area are growing to heights of 10+ meters in the deep forest at 2200m+ in elevation. The rich biodiversity and natural growing conditions really make their way into the cup.

This tea brews up slowly into a rich, clear golden soup. The flavor is unique and complex. Reminds me of forest flower honey, herbs and wild grasses. Just a touch of astringency, no bitterness, thick mouthfeel, rich huigan and relaxing qi. A great option for warmer days and when you are looking for a unique green tea experience.

Another interesting aspect of this tea is the aging potential. I have tried teas from past years and they get sweeter and richer over time. The honey notes become more prominent as well.

Interesting that last part was included.  This did seem to age positively, at a guess.  That or it was really fantastic to begin with and it just didn't lose as much as one would expect. 

Review:

#1:  a little subtle, but coming along nicely.  At this stage it reminds me of Thai Nguyen character:  vegetal and mineral intensive, with significant umami, and just a hint of fresher floral range.  This is brewed a bit hotter than I would imagine would be optimum, but I'm too lazy to sort out a way to cool the kettle heated water.  It seems appropriate for Vietnamese green tea, given the local custom of using boiling point water to brew that there.  A bit of extra challenging feel or flavors is fine.

The vegetal character is interesting, between green bean and kale.  It's fresher and lighter than that sounds, and more pleasant; other range balances it, including a toasted rice / nutty input comparable to Longjing.  And there is a lot of difference between fresh, well-prepared green bean and a frozen and overcooked version. 

#2:  freshness and brightness picks up, partly from it gaining intensity while still being brewed very light.  Depth of mouthfeel and aftertaste increase; it's interesting for those to be noteworthy in a green tea.  Umami is pleasant in this for integrating with the rest.  In Japanese teas where that aspect stands out most it can really overpower the rest, and here it balances with it.  The flavors are shifting but I'll add a new list next round.

I might feel this in my head already; that's also interesting.  I don't get effects from tea as clearly as many others report, and I've already eaten breakfast, which would slow that onset.

#3:  other flavor range is picking up but it's hard to identify.  Maybe general floral tone?  Vegetal input has moderated quite a bit, but the underlying mineral tone and umami is still pronounced.  Umami might be giving way slightly, but not diminishing like the vegetal range.  Deeper warm tones like toasted rice or macadamia nut balance the rest.  The general effect is a clean, complex taste.  Sweetness level is fine, in the right range.  

For a green tea drinker this could be a really unique and pleasant experience.  Since I just drink those for a change of pace, or to write about them, it's still pleasant for me, but it's not my main preference.  

I might tap out early for this being enough tea after another round; that's strange.  This is pretty strong tea, since I don't usually get that much effect from the same amount of sheng pu'er.  That one wild origin Thai tea favorite hits really hard, but I usually only have it when I feel like having that experience.  In a recent tasting experience with neighbors one tried that and said that she was expecting a slap in the face but that it came across like a kick in the face.  In a good way, maybe?

#4:  more of the same, I guess.  This tea is intense enough that I would really need to drink some water or eat something between rounds to reset to get a clearer impression.  The intensity is building up as I go, not the infusion strength each round, but the effect compounds somehow.  I had some goji berries soaking to eat as part of breakfast; I'll eat those after trying this round.

I think Vietnamese people must adapt to this and seek it out, maybe even in a stronger form than this, related to them drinking even stronger brewed green tea, mixing it in a pot and letting infusion times run for many minutes, or half an hour.  I could've brewed half as much of this tea and it would've worked better.  Green tea isn't usually this intense.

#5:  this will have to do it; I'm not in the mood to get blasted on caffeine and theanine.  It is transitioning; those general, vague floral tones are picking up.  It might be more like a lavender input now.  The rest is so complex that it could be interpreted in different ways.  Seeing this as tasting like melon could work, or the richness one could interpret as being buttery.  

My wife tried it and thought something came across as a roasted effect, a rich and warm tone.  Flavor is comparable, but it surely didn't get there by way of a roasting process.  Part of what resembles a receded vegetal edge might come across as spice, along the line of lemongrass or holy basil.  It's nice that it has so much complexity.

Conclusion:

A pleasant, complex green tea.  It works for me.  I'm trying extra rounds later in the day while editing the notes and they're just as positive.

It raises the question what this would've been like nearly two years ago when first made.  Surely some degree of freshness dropped out, and bright intensity, and it picked up some depth along the way.  That's not what one is usually seeking out in green tea but it works in this.  It's not faded, musty, off, like cardboard, or tied to any other broad range one might expect from not-new green tea.  

It's tempting to try to guess why this tea might age better than some other green versions.  Who knows?  Maybe because it wasn't relying on that one fresh and floral theme as a main aspect range early on; maybe it had good depth back then.  Maybe it wasn't kill-greened at a really hot temperature and some enzymes or compounds stayed more active and less transitioned.  Or maybe this was unusually bright, floral, sweet, and intense back then and it has lost most of that, but it had so much going on that it hasn't lost it all.

It has been interesting, and just what I was looking for, a break from the tea types I've been experiencing a lot of recently.

Wild origin teas, adopting foreign tea styles

First posted by TChing here.

These two subjects came up recently in an online social meetup with Rajiv Lochan, about teas made from "wild" origin forest-source plants, and that of producers adopting and interpreting foreign styles of tea.  Problems can occur with both themes and approaches.

The range of both of these ideas and cases is all a bit complicated.  It can be hard to map out what is occurring or might occur related to using different types of natural growth plant sources, or drawing on local tea processing styles, and draw clear lines in what is typical or acceptable and what goes too far in violating some type of norm.  We didn't get very far with that discussion, so to be clear all of this is my own framing of a complex set of ideas, that we didn't discuss in detail in that meetup.

It's well known that wild growing tea plants are common throughout the Assam area, and other areas in India, and in Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, and Vietnam.  These Assamica variety plants aren't closely related to Yunnan Assamica, or maybe even to plantation Assamica versions of Indian teas.  Due to interbreeding with other species of Camelia Sinensis the range of what is growing can be inconsistent.  The typical understanding is that these plants are remnants of past use and intended planting by earlier people, not necessarily in ancient times, but as some point in the past.  Within that context the tea plants could be seen as feral versus truly wild, untended but not completely naturally propagated.  All that could be clearer, and to some extent it doesn't really matter.  

natural growth tea plant in the north of Thailand

this shows size better

what that area looks like

One influential tea blogger has claimed that wild tea plant produced beverages are better regarded as a tisane, not as true tea.  To me that goes a little far with applying category judgment, but I get it, and there's a lot to that.  Processed version results are often inconsistent, just less so for Yunnan based versions (or those represented as such).  Two of the main versions I've tried in Thailand ended up being quite sour, and then more other versions presented as such were not atypical of Yunnan Assamica plant based sheng pu'er.  I recently tried an Indian newly-created version of sheng, which was very unusual, as close to black tea in character as sheng pu'er.  It's not "pu'er," which is a region-specific type, but then sheng means "raw," so as I see it using that term is equivalent to calling any tea black (relatively fully oxidized), just a general description.

So again, what's the problem with "wild origin tea," beyond someone preferring to keep the term and range of "tea" narrowly focused?  Inconsistency can be seen as a problem, for products to vary with changes in whatever happens to be gathered.  Some of the plants could really be Camellia Taliensis material, a version that's around in Yunnan, or Camellia Formosensis, a "wild tea" plant in Taiwan.  Or something else, or a hybrid, a mix of types.  It doesn't seem to pose a significant safety issue, that a producer might be poisoning you, but just not knowing what a product essentially is can seem unusual.  Maybe to some extent there is a health risk to be considered; I can't exclude that.

maybe "Shan" versions come up most, not the Formosensis "wild teas" listed (source)

Importing styles from one country or region to another is something else, raising a different concern.  Rajiv expressed how Indians producing something called Longjing or Matcha could be deceiving, whether or not location based designation protection deems that unacceptable or not.  I completely agree.  

This reminds me of a very early experience with tea in visiting Vietnam, trying a version of Japanese green tea there, produced with Japanese support.  I'd be a better judge now of how close the style match was, but I bought some and drank it, and it seemed fine, or maybe just a little rough edged.  At the time I thought it was great that countries and cultures could influence each other like that, to share experience and technology.  Later, after thinking it through and being exposed to more background, I realized that it was likely that the tea was destined to be sold as being from Japan, regardless of where it was finally consumed.  That's different.  The knowledge sharing and alternative product development steps still seem fine, but that last step not so much.

Can we say that Vietnam should not produce Japanese style tea?  It's not as easy to conclude that.  The toothpaste is definitely out of the tube in relation to Vietnam producing Taiwanese style oolong, a lot of which is understood to return to Taiwan to be sold as Taiwanese tea back there.  It would be all the easier for Vietnamese-Taiwanese versions to be misrepresented in other countries.  In the North of Thailand you can buy the same Thai tea packaged as either from local production, what it is, or as being from Taiwan, what it isn't.  That's a hearsay based account, to be clear, related to what has been passed on to me second hand as vendor communication.  It doesn't conflict with how other types of branded products are sold here.

Let's set that aside, and consider that if every product is sold as exactly what it is, should India produce Japanese style green tea or not?  It's hard to find a broad enough justification to say no, but there are clear reasons for seeing that as a negative thing.

What about sheng ("pu'er")?  As I see it we are onto a different kind of case, because at least based on my single related experience the resulting product from India couldn't be presented as Yunnan true pu'er, even if one wanted to do so.  It's too different.  Of course a variation of sheng made just across a border from China could be exactly the same as teas made a few kilometers away.

one year old Ketlee Indian "sheng;" it's dark

So now we are talking about hybrid styles, about one region borrowing processing steps and final tea styles from another.  Is that ok?  To me it is, but I can relate to why some "purists" wouldn't think so.  My favorite Indonesian tea producer, Toba Wangi, has moved to produce tea plant types from other places, made by drawing on foreign processing styles, as novel new tea types.  I think that's fine, but maybe not everyone else would.  It could depend on how the tea plants were obtained, and of course on branding / marketing claims.

early Toba Wangi plantation plantings; definitely monoculture

Nepal tea being sold as Darjeeling is something else altogether; now we are back to a sort of counterfeiting case.  What about a Nepal tea being based on a Darjeeling clone, borrowing as much as possible from Darjeeling processing, grown in conditions chosen to duplicate results, but still sold as Nepal tea?  That seems less clear, and not as clearly ok.  And that seems much closer to what Vietnam is doing with Taiwanese oolong, since all of those steps and factors match in that case.  Even Taiwanese people are brought there to process the tea, per my understanding. As Chinese people are now, and have long since been, training people in Thailand, Laos, and Myanmar to make pu'er-like tea.  

locally produced "wild" Thai "sheng pu'er-like" tea

Vietnam is different related to this case; the tradition of making what they tend to call "sun-dried tea" is not new to them (or maybe really just translated to dried tea, per what I've been told).  Those teas have long since been bought and brought back to China to be blended into Yiwu pu'er versions.  Mind you Vietnam makes a broad range of local styles that don't exist anywhere else too; their tea tradition is very diverse and developed.  Some of it is rustic and rough-edged, and some refined, distinctive, novel, and very high in quality.  Vietnamese teas don't get the credit they deserve, but the more awareness and demand spreads the more pricing inflates, so it's probably not a completely bad thing.

It's hard to end either subject with a clear "in conclusion..." summary.  Varying experiences bring up different combinations of circumstances and final outcomes.  I'm probably a lot more open to producers using different kinds of tea materials and processing styles than some others would be.  I see it as a natural evolution.  The sustainability issue related to using currently growing, forest based plants isn't lost on me; one main (frequent) alternative is for producers to clear-cut forest sections for mono-culture tea production.  That's not better.  Then right up to the edge of tea version counterfeiting I'm fine with producers borrowing styles.

Borrowing tea type names is almost a different subject.  Should Thailand producers be able to call teas Oriental Beauty?  If a type based on Yunnan sheng pu'er is made elsewhere, which is common, and pre-dated the current borders of China and the conventional name "pu'er," per my understanding, what should that be called?  Opinions would vary.  The point here was to raise these issues for consideration, for limited discussion, more than proposing my own take on resolutions or limitations tied to any of these themes.

Thai Oriental Beauty, or at least it's based partly on that type and style

Monsoon and Tea Side Thai tea discussion

 

Kenneth lower left, Valeri upper right (photo credit Ralph)

Kind of strange to put it off for living in Thailand, but we finally had guests join from here during an online meetup.  They were Kenneth of Monsoon Tea Company and Valeri of Tea Side, two of the main tea sources in Thailand, as I see it (both based out of Chiang Mai).  There is one main mall shop here in Bangkok, Tea Dee, and beyond that Chinatown shops stand out most. 

Since this was kind of an introduction a lot of what I'll include as summary here I will have posted before, but it would've been scattered over about four years of writing about both of these sources.  I'll go ahead and repeat it, and link to some of that.

Kenneth and Monsoon

Kenneth promotes tea production from wild forest sources, the sustainability theme that ties to that (as he summarized in a Tedx talk here, and written up in this blog here).  It's a great idea, and it's odd that it's not more common a theme than it is.  Tea (variety Assamica) has been growing throughout a very broad region for a very long time, throughout Yunnan, Assam, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam.  It's "wild" in the sense that no one is farming it, but the ties to earlier agriculture aren't completely clear.  People almost certainly played a role in that earlier spread, so it could probably fairly be regarded as feral instead of wild, in terms of naturally occurring.  The full history is still being discovered.

Kenneth's intro to the others included the idea that the forest origin teas have a distinctive flavor and character, all familiar ground to me for reviewing versions for years.  They tend to include a bit of sourness.  That can be really off-putting if you associate sourness with tea spoiling due to damp storage, or a processing flaw, but really in this case it seems to tie to distinctive plant genetics, related to those mixing with taliensis or other inputs, or just genetic drift over time.  It's not as bad as it sounds; flavors can be floral and complex beyond that.

I was hoping we could push so far into discussion to get to why that comes up, if there's more cause to be cited than "genetic mixing or drift."  Tea Side sells a wild origin "Lord of the Forest" sheng version from Myanmar that's not sour at all, which was really nice.  And I've tried an exceptional Yongde (Yunnan) wild version from Moychay this year that also wasn't, and a nice Xiaguan version, and Laos and Vietnam forest-origin teas generally aren't like that.  It could just be that plant genetics vary, not an especially satisfying answer, but that's probably how cause identification is going to go.  

Kenneth mentioned that black tea, green, and oolong work out best so they produce mostly that.  From time to time writing here I bring up a really unusual (and very sour) local wild sheng version that the owner of Jip Eu made (Kittichai, that Chinatown shop owner).  I bought a second cake of that tea so that I could spread out drinking the first one over a few years and then keep on tasting it.  So far it's not changing that much.  Every time I drink it for the first few rounds I'm deciding if I really like it, and then for a long sequence of later rounds I decide that I do.  

I think adjusting to sourness relates to unlearning an established expectation, so that people not so into specialty tea could adapt quicker (related to Kenneth's input that experienced chefs love his wild-origin teas, more so than tea enthusiasts).  That would be like acclimating to bitterness in sheng; people tend to not love it right away, unless other exposure has prepared them to be open to that, for example a love of pale ales.  Then later that bitterness seems positive, a nice balancing input along with the sweetness and other flavor range.

We talked about blends, which they sell more of than plain teas.  The reason for that is pragmatic; their main customer base had been tourists, and that was in demand.  They started as a Chiang Mai tourist area cafe and shop and have expanded to here as well (Bangkok).  I don't drink much for flavored teas or blends but two of the best versions I've ever tried were from them, a mango flavored oolong (ok, that was really longan and mangosteen), and coconut flavored black tea.  I think that black tea experience reminded me of Christmas enough to draw on sentimentality as a positive input.  The quality of both was good too; you can tell when the tea is good quality and the flavoring also is.  Kenneth said that using less flavoring and higher quality tea represent a pattern previously more common in European teas, now replaced by using more flavoring and the cheapest tea versions available, for obvious reasons, to maximize margin.

Kenneth made an interesting point about how not only is tea experience embedded in a culture, but an immediate experience makes more sense there.  He said that drinking a strong and sweet gunpowder green tea with mint is a great experience in Morocco, but that it wouldn't necessarily translate, trying the same tea elsewhere.  And the same for masala chai in India, and so on; the experiences connect with the locations.

It leads to considering what the local experience should be for Bangkok (where I live).  Sitting in a Chinatown cafe, like Double Dogs, or visiting a shop there, like Jip Eu, where I first met Kenneth, and trying out Wuyi Yancha (Fujian roasted oolong) would work. Even though they're not so common a flavored rolled oolong from Monsoon could make the cut.  It would be great to visit the growing areas around Chiang Rai and try some fresh rolled oolongs in that hilly setting; I've never done that.

Doi Mae Salong (Chiang Rai area), photo from Alex Phanganovich

Valeri of Tea Side

Tea Side is on a different range of product scale, turning up the best Thai teas I've tried from any source, by a fairly significant margin.  They do sell some Taiwanese style oolongs, a main standard type in Thailand, but they focus more on sheng and shu ("not pu'er," since it's from here), and Dian Hong style black teas, including a lot of aged versions of those.  Valeri really appreciates the body-feel aspect of teas, "cha qi."  I'm at the opposite end of the scale for "getting" that, so this won't say a lot more about that theme.

He mentioned an interest in seeking out the oldest teas available in this country.  Some that Tea Side list are from the 80s to mid 2000s, with historical background and more on the Hong Tai Chang productions here.  And he also covered a bit about shu fermentation experimentation, a small-batch theme, (with his process description here, a review of two Tea Side versions here, and other background on that theme here).  His results and versions are good.  

I'm partly in the "shu is shu" camp, seeing that as one of the narrowest character / aspect range tea types there is, but of course it varies.  I don't just mean flawed or not flawed, still showing fermentation related rough edges or odd mustiness; it varies within the very positive range too.  I like shu (and hei cha), I just like sheng better.

His sheng holds its own with Yunnan range tea.  Pretty good sub-theme range too; I don't mean that it's well above generic sheng coming out of China, it's a good bit better than decent, probably in the upper half of the range of boutique teas.  I say more about that in reviews here, or I think the TeaDB guys have tried some of his versions (they are reliable, and their video form content is much nicer, much less work to experience).

What else?  We didn't get so far describing the rest of Thai teas, and there isn't that much that's simple to say.  At some point the backstory only goes so far and then it's about trying teas. Valeri mentioned that the tea tradition in Thailand goes way back, I forget the year he mentioned, but around a 1940 time-frame.  Most likely that's a known range for well established production, and local and informal practices were around a very long time before that.  Kenneth would add that people have been eating tea locally for a very long time, which I take to be accurate, even though I've never given that one text covering the history of tea a close read (Tale of Tea?).

trying miang (cured tea) at the Asok Monsoon branch

We talked a little about the history of tea in Russia, asking about his take on Bronislav Vinogrodskiy, one influential tea tradition founder there, who we just met online.  That ran through scope I've covered in other posts, about older ties to China being replaced by Ceylon trade and a different style of black tea, with plenty of influence of drinking local tisanes.  Only in the last 40 years has that developed into embracing traditional Chinese teas and more formal preparation practices.

I like the history of tea, processing background, cultural considerations, and information about plant genetics, but in the end I'm more interested in the experience of different teas.  I should add just a bit about my favorites from both vendors, since this is as much about background I already experienced than that discussion (with the two not separate).

My favorites related to both vendors

To me the Monsoon "wild" teas are ok, but novelty and that story line have to factor in to add appeal.  Their flavored teas really are the best I've ever tried, which isn't much of a broad perspective, since I actively avoid trying teas from that broad category.  One forest-source white tea I tried from them was really nice before; odd those dropped out.  They've also been ramping up kombucha production; I have almost the least exposure possible to that but it seemed nice to me.  All in all they are well worth visiting, here in Bangkok or up in Chiang Mai.

Tea Side range is more the page I'm on, Chinese tea, with focus on Yunnan scope.  And it's pretty good versions of those.  Pricing could be regarded as a down-side for the higher end of their range, but that's normal; high-demand and limited availability teas tend to cost a good bit, for all types and source areas.  A gui fei really stood out, a rolled variation on Oriental Beauty.  That was most of it, thinking back to what was nice beyond sheng, shu, and Dian Hong style black (with an interesting aged range of those available).  One green tea was one of the best I've ever tried (this one); that's strange, since I mostly only prefer Longjing within green tea scope.

Other Taiwan-style rolled oolong from them is good, as I remember, just slightly better than the main plantation versions. But in general the best of that oolong range from Vietnam eclipses the best from Thailand, and better Taiwanese versions are on a slightly higher scale.  And an even higher scale for pricing too, for those seeing that as a main concern.  One might wonder if terroir issues don't complicate what I've presented as a direct comparison here, and that does factor in.

In talking to Valeri about that last issue, that the best Taiwanese oolongs are a lot better than the best Thai versions, he is inclined to disagree, and sees the best of what he sells as on-par.  I've not tried enough of his to be clear on placing that.  To be honest I'm not a great reference for the best Taiwanese high mountain oolongs either; I've tried what I've tried, and the best of those were significantly better than the best Thai versions that I tried.  To some extent preference for local terroir related character must offset the potential for making a blanket quality level judgement.  

I like to think that I can identify quality level by standard aspect parameters (complexity, intensity, sweetness, mouthfeel and aftertaste aspects, flavor matching standard type, absence of flaws, etc.), and can go slightly beyond that to pick out some aspects that act as "quality markers" for many types.  But preference and judgement factors in, and I don't see myself as an authority on that.  I tend to agree with almost all of what Valeri has expressed about his teas that I have tried (factoring in normal bias and marketing spin), so to me that's a factor, lending some extra credibility to that input.

Back on the broader scale those guys are both really nice to talk to, both very personable and genuine.  All the talks have been positive, really, but often they feel comfortable, like talking to people you already know, and this was like that.  I've met Kenneth a few times so I should feel that way, but I mean beyond that, related to Valeri and my friends' feedback.

Biodiversity research and wild origin teas

First published in TChing here and here

These types of themes usually run in just one direction, tied to a vendor claiming that their tea is “wild sourced” from naturally growing plants in the jungle.  Sometimes it really is.  Monsoon Tea in the North of Thailand specializes in that theme, and has worked with a Russian researcher, Alexey Reshchikov, who is doing research on assessing biodiversity and forest health, based out of China.

I just attended a talk by Alexey at a Monsoon location in Bangkok, with a video of that presentation here.  I won’t get far in covering what he said, and it’s easy enough to watch it, but a bit of summary will make a start.  Just bear in mind that I won’t do the fine points justice, this only comments on some parts.

Alexey does research into the health of ecosystems.  It’s possible to assess this by trapping insects and evaluating which ones are present.  Of course that would mean a lot more to a very specifically trained ecologist, which he is.  The idea is that the health of a forest depends on the balanced diversity of all forms of life present, the plants, the insects, and everything else living there, but the insects can provide a window into how the rest is going.

As an interesting related tangent, one particular kind of lack of health in a forested environment can occur when a new species is introduced into an ecosystem that isn’t already in balance with that insect (or animal or plant).  The US sees this happen from time to time.  There was a type of silk worm (gypsy moth) spread that destroyed a lot of Pennsylvania forests when I was younger, with that not an uncommon event, per this reference:

 

Collectively, oak, elm, ash, hemlock, butternut, dogwood, redbud, and chestnut trees died at a rate several times greater than that of unimpacted tree species. From 1991 to 2013, trees attacked by invasives accounted for about 25% of all tree death, measured by the amount of tree biomass lost…

 

trap system used to collect insects

Alexey mentioned a case in which a novel form of resolution for this had been utilized; researchers introduced an insect that disrupted the invading insect’s lifecyle, stalling the progress of destruction of entire forest areas.  In discussing a similar theme with Kenneth Rimdahl of Monsoon, related to Alexey’s research, he covered how one type of insect is actually a sort of guardian of the tea plants (trees).  It feeds on other insects that would feed on the leaves, protecting the plants, when present in significant numbers.

Truly natural environments find their own balance.  The role pesticides play in monoculture farming, moderating impact of insects, is replaced by naturally established relationships between organisms.  Alexey described how in evaluating the role pesticide plays in monoculture farming it is helpful to understand what that not-as-natural environment is like, what insects can live under such circumstances.  That would mostly be relevant to organic farming, since enough pesticide use strips the environment of most types of insects.  Such study is occurring through the Dali University that Alexey is a part of. 

Alexey and Kenneth discussed a related concern:  when farming using pesticide controls as soon as an insect gains tolerance for the chemicals it has unrestricted access to feed on the plants, requiring different chemical treatment to eliminate it.  It could potentially become a vicious cycle, requiring a series of changes over time, one with health impacts for consumers eating or drinking products made from those materials.

All very fascinating!  The entire talk is worth a watch, to catch the original form, or a related Tea Fauna Facebook page covers more, or the related Instagram version tells the story through photos.

In the end the goal is to promote preservation of truly natural wildlife areas.  Being able to assess the health of a local environment and knowing more about stages in between balanced, natural forests and ecologically stripped, monoculture farming environments could support this.  This early research work isn't necessarily building directly into a way to transition from monoculture farming back to more varied, organic approaches, or to use of truly natural environments as food sources.  It's about developing understanding and tools for analysis.

Beyond leading towards more natural organic approaches, another more extreme idea is that if wild forests can provide economic support, income for local people, that provides more incentive for protecting those environments.  The links and supports between original forest, least environmentally friendly farming (mono-culture approaches), more organic approaches, and re-forestation (the interim steps) make for a longer story.

Related to that one end point goal and sub-theme, Monsoon sells “wild” origin versions of Thai teas, as are produced all across South East Asia.  I'll mention a lot of examples of related teas here, without going into detail about character or background, with more information about them in linked materials.

The "wild" teas can be unusual.  Many of those have an odd sour taste, which is better once you are expecting it, and have a chance to acclimate a bit to the different style.  It’s not unique to their versions; I reviewed a wild Xiaguan sheng pu’er that was similar here (a 2005 version, so with some age), and a locally made sheng version produced by my favorite Bangkok shop owner (from 2012, so not “young” either), which I really liked.  

wild tea search in Laos, covered here, photo credit the Comité de coopération avec le Laos

I just reviewed a Yongde “ye sheng,” or wild origin material Yunnan black tea not long ago, but in that case I was talking about an unusual degree of tartness, not sourness.  It would depend on the mix of genetics in the plant material, and of course processing always affects outcome.  I reviewed a hill-tribe producer sourced Thai black tea last year that wasn't tart or sour, just quite good tea, maybe only a little more "rustic" than some more refined versions.  And I've reviewed a comparable themed version from Vietnam.  Again, differences in plant types and processing would factor in, so resulting character varies.

Those references relate mostly to black teas, since that's the general type I started on discussing, but wild and plantation produced sheng "pu'er-like" types come up across South East Asia too.  As of now the production and market for those probably aren't extensive enough to play a significant role in preventing further de-forestation.  But lots of little steps could add up, and help support retention of natural areas, including appreciation for forest-origin products.

a small tasting gathering after the talk