Placing different kinds of tea vendors in relation to types

 

Over and over people ask online about others' favorite vendors, and one part that gets lost is that there are different kinds of vendors, with different focuses.  Value can vary a lot, and quality level of tea.  Range of what is available from each varies.  

I'm going to try to place different kinds of vendors by category, mostly through the lens of trying teas from a few sources in the past half a year.  I'll need to extend that, to get to other main types and source examples, because I've only bought tea from four sources this year, that come to mind (online; I keep buying tea from a favorite local Chinatown shop, mostly to give away, but also for myself).  That's a lot compared to last year; more than for the whole year.  Of course these aren't intended to represent optimum sources; they just match my own preferences.

Related to the Reddit tea vendors list capture, the image at the beginning, it's strange that there is only three categories there, for beginners, US sources, and teaware.  That leaves out most applicable range, for the rest of the world, and for everyone who isn't a beginner (although it still probably works for 90% of that sub / group).  It's interesting that one cited source, for beginners, mentions curated tea selling for 10 to 30 cents per gram.  That's something of a contradiction, for reasons this further content will describe.

I'll start with a couple main types of sources I didn't get to, and then move on to examples of what I've tried, and how I see those mapping to categories and other comparable source options.  There are pros and cons of using different kinds of sources, that relate to what someone is looking for, in terms of type / style, and value, which I'm describing as cost in relation to quality level.  

A relatively low quality version of tea can still be a great value, if selling for a very low and fair price.  Of course that's only if someone is ok with drinking that tea.  A really costly tea can still be a great value, if quality level, rarity, and market demand all support that it's worth it.  

To put a rough price range to that anything under 10 cents a gram is selling at the low end, for specialty tea.  Under 5 typically relates to a different quality range entirely, for mass-produced, pretty limited in quality tea versions.  You can generally buy really good quality, in-demand versions for 60 or 70 cents per gram, and it all levels off quite a bit around $1 / gram (which is the first reference to why "curated" tea selling for 30 cents a gram or less makes no sense; you can only curate the medium quality level range for that pricing, which is still pretty good tea, but "curation" implies that it's better than that).

This won't mostly be about evaluating value for different kinds of sources, but as I see it that's one main running theme, along with how good the teas actually are, and how unique the teas being offered are.  You can buy above average Anxi Tie Guan Yin from lots of places, or Jin Xuan rolled oolong in Thailand; this is mostly about teas that are more unique, and harder to find.

Places I don't shop

Online market outlets:  in the past Chawang Shop was sort of an exception to this, and I had great experiences buying tea from them.  Yunnan Sourcing is really the main example (and I've had positive experiences buying tea from them too).  King Tea Mall is a well-known and typically favorably regarded source, but according to some Yunnan Sourcing products may be a little more consistent.  King Tea Mall is probably buying and selling more online, and Yunnan Sourcing would use pretty well established upstream sources at this point, since they were already around 20 years ago, operating out of Kunming.

These kinds of vendors offer everything under the sun.  That's less true of Chawang Shop, but I'm using this categorization in a positive sense for them, claiming that they offer a broad range of tea types across a range of quality levels at decent value.  Here's an interesting in-house Jinggu shou pu'er I bought from Chawang Shop 4 years ago, probably not typical of what they sell, but then I'm claiming here that they sell different things, varying grades of sheng and shou, and hei cha, so in a sense it is.  That tea was unusually inexpensive ($15 for 400 gram brick), because they were selling it before it was settled (from fermentation funkiness) as a special offering, and you really need to hold onto it for a couple of years to get good results out of it.

Filtering related to what you want to find is a requirement, and there would be hits and misses, related to quality level and value.  Getting input from others through online group discussion could be helpful.  In the past text blogs or sites like Steepster filled this role, but now Discord discussion is probably more helpful.  Facebook is more or less dying, in relation to tea discussion, and Reddit tea subs tend to be stuck on people repeating the exact same beginner questions every single day. 

Especially related to Yunnan Sourcing the option to buy at sample quantity is a main benefit of using such a source type.  You can buy a couple of dozen samples for the same price as buying a lot of just a few kinds of tea, which you may not like.  Per gram value isn't as good, but it's not a great value buying a tea you don't want to drink.

It would sound as if I've moved on to narrow down sources that work even better for me, and I guess that's fair.

Higher end producer direct sites:  there aren't many of these.  Wuyi Origin is a main example, ran by a family member--as a frontperson--by Cindy Chen, selling great quality Wuyi Yancha, Fujian black tea, and Dan Cong, Chaozhou oolong.  Usually a source selling a broad range is a bad sign, because then they're typically just reselling wholesale outlet sourced teas, or else Taobao sourced versions, but that vendor has family in both places (Wuyishan, Fujian and Chaozhou, Guangdong).

I would buy tea from them, but I've drifted into preference for sheng pu'er.  It happens to people.  They're a fantastic source for really good quality oolong and black teas, which are great ranges for almost everyone.  But tea that good is on the costly side, typically above 30 or 40 cents per gram, with many at 60 or so.  That's still a great value, given that other "curator" sources would sell the same quality level versions for around $1 / gram instead.  

I did just buy tea from a Thai producer, which is another example of a different form of producer-direct sourcing, but I'll list that in the next section.

Gopaldhara is a good example of a Darjeeling garden that sells directly, both within India and outside it (through two different pages).  Their teas are exceptional; they fit the "higher end" description in this category heading.  There are other resale outlets that buy and distribute Indian teas, like Vahdam and Golden Tips, and those are ok too, but buying directly is generally better.  You can find better tea and better values.

really good first and second flush versions from Gopaldhara, reviewed in 2020

Curator sources:  there are a few different variations of these, and they kind of run together with ordinary broad type online sources.  A favorite I recommend is Trident Bookseller and Cafe, in Boulder.  They evolved to source award winning and otherwise amazing versions over time, to sell in-house, and eventually expanded that to limited online sales.  They don't push to expand volume, to contend with other larger outlets; it supplements their other business themes and income streams.

Value is great through them; for what they sell the pricing is really low.  That's only possible because they're a lot more producer direct than almost any other sources.  In a sense they're doing what Tealet had set out to do more than a decade ago, but left off at becoming just another wholesale vendor instead (which is fine; that's the model that ended up working).   I suppose their business model might be problematic, for ramping up volume and earnings.  Trying to sell the best teas at a good value would cut into your potential profit margin, and it might be hard to really ramp up volume.

Why do you never hear of a source like Trident then?  In part due to gatekeeping; people wouldn't mention it to help prevent ruining their own source.  In part because their existing consumer base is probably limited.  And then they don't use a lot of standard broad-form advertising to help with exposure, as a larger volume oriented source like Rishi does.

Other curator or specialty themed vendors are out there, but I can't mention any related to using them as a source.  Floating Leaves for Taiwanese oolongs gets mentioned as an example, but again I've not purchased anything from them.  A good quality curator source in the US would need to sell at high market value just to profit, so their teas would end up all being priced around $1 / gram, which I can't afford.  In terms of old-school, established outlets Tea Habitat has been a known Dan Cong vendor for a long time, since US tea enthusiast circles first came to be back in the early 2000s.  

An example of an established online vendor who blurs this line, with that of an ordinary mixed-types source, might be Seven Cups.  They started as a Wuyishan area main source, and probably retain that focus, but as I recall they were positioned in between the range of curator (selling the best versions at high cost) and an ordinary source (more average quality, selling for less to emphasize value).  This really could be the sweet spot for a lot of people.

Why would you buy tea from them, if you could get better versions for less through Wuyi Origin?  I suppose you wouldn't, if that were true, and you knew about it.  But they would carry more range, and at some point people find sources they like and stop looking.  They don't always want to make it their life's mission to buy the best teas for the best value; they just want to be able to order good tea for good value.  

Most people also aren't going to read 2000 or so word blog post about the subject, which is fine, very understandable.

Where I buy tea (mostly this year, as an example)

I'll use where I've been buying tea as an example, starting with kind of an anomaly.

Rishi / larger outlets:  I only bought two versions from them this year, Thai and Lao sheng versions (pu'er, if that was from Yunnan, but lacking any type name if from South East Asia).  I kept wondering what their versions were like, so finally just ordered some to see (even though they don't represent where I usually buy tea).  They were ok.  They don't hold up well in competition from producer direct sources, but then that's kind of a main running theme here, that you get the best value buying as directly as possible, or from specialized vendors, when possible from sources outside the US.

They would still be fine for buying decent value, higher volume, broad type range, surely better than the average mall outlet that might be nearby.  There aren't that many mall outlets nearby now, since many malls failed in the US, and Teavana folded (was bought by Starbucks, then largely shelved).  

Some of Rishi's other sheng could be better than what I tried; it probably is.  You can't judge a source or a producer from one or two tea versions.  Or a tea type; you see that happen a lot in online discussion, and it just doesn't work.

Wawee Tea / direct Thai sourcing:  oddly I'm not mentioning this as a good option for most readers; they typically wouldn't sell directly outside of Thailand.  But I've just bought really exceptional Thai sheng and black tea from them, and reviewed both here.  

That's a normal, running theme in South East Asian countries; you can buy local versions from very small outlets, or even good sized producers, that wouldn't be readily available / Western facing, through Facebook pages and such.  

Thailand has two online shopping platforms, variations of Amazon or Ebay, in Shopee and Lazada.  Existing small vendors would often sell their teas through there.  There would be even more such sources in Vietnam, another favorite broad origin for me, so let's move on to a Western facing outlet from there next.  I should mention first that 101 Plantation is an example of a main, high volume producer in Thailand, for buying rolled oolong and such, and my favorite Chinatown shop is Jip Eu.  You could buy their teas through Shopee, I think (both of them), but not from abroad.

Viet Sun:  I've bought the most tea from Viet Sun over the past 3 or 4 years, of any source.  They're "Western facing," meaning set up for international shipping, and in the past for credit card payment use, although they mentioned preferring other payment options when I last ordered from them, just a month and a half ago.  Their teas are great.  

Y Ty (Lao Cai) indigenous village produced Viet Sun sheng (reviewed here)

these are so complex that they seem a little different every time I try them

There's a common theme among new, great value, new format vendors that they tend to sell range that's hard to find at great pricing, then later as demand catches up it's more in a normal Western market range.  Their sheng cakes might be priced from $80 to $120 now, or 200 gram versions for half of that; just normal price range, for lots of outlet types.  That would've been $60 to 80 3 or 4 years ago.  Part of that is inflation, and a lot is demand for that supplied tea bumping up.  I doubt that any of it is them increasing their mark-up rate, although that's at least possible.  People find out about types ranges and sources, then demand increases, and costs, starting at producers demanding more.  Usually quality becomes a little more consistent too, so better value is filled in a little on the other end, maybe just not enough to offset higher pricing.

Hatvala had been the earlier more market oriented source I used from Vietnam, and they're still there, and would still be a good source.  That change related in part to me switching to pu'er preference.  They sell some Vietnamese sheng, as maocha (loose versions), but Viet Sun specializes in it, and seeks out a broader range of perhaps more novel offerings.

Back to Thai themes:  Tea Side would be "our" equivalent source.  Their pricing is probably higher than either of these two Vietnamese sources, perhaps related to them leaning into the mark-up a bit more than is the case for those two Vietnamese sources.  As a unique source option whatever they set is the standard market price, because there aren't alternatives.  You have to by sheng for 40 or 50 cents a gram instead of 25 or 30 if there aren't any other options, or just don't buy it.  Maybe it's that limited production at the quality range they sell pushes that same theme "up" a level, and those few higher quality option producers can keep demanding more, as I said was probably now occurring in Vietnam.

Let's check on that, by reference to their pages and offerings.

These are Viet Sun's brand new cake offerings, selling for $45 to 53 for 200 gram versions, so for between just under $90 per standard 357 gram size--which they don't sell--and around $100 on the higher side.  That's actually not bad; that tea is better than just about any Western source version for $100 per standard cake size.

Tea Side's 200 gram cakes are selling for $65 to 85, based on the first four listings, for 32 cents to 42 cents per 100 grams, or $115 to $150 per 357 gram cake quantity.  Is it better than Viet Sun's versions?  I really don't know; it has been awhile since I tried it.  Maybe only equivalent, based on what I last tried however long ago, maybe 5 years back or more.

For someone less concerned about value, about price per gram, and for whom spending a few hundred dollars on tea isn't that much of an expense, then buying a good bit of both teas would make sense, and comparing the two.  It's not like when you order too much fresh green tea, and then a half a year later it's not as good.  Oolongs hold up well to even a couple of years of storage, and sheng changes in ways that are often seen as improvements, as hei cha do.

To me these types of teas evolve well over the first two years, even for styles that aren't favorable for even middle time frame aging, transitioning some over 6 to 8 years.  You can't really buy a 200 gram cake and plan to drink some and then keep some for 20 years, to see a full transition, or at least if you did there wouldn't be much for either consumption purpose.  

I personally wouldn't age these styles of teas anyway (SE Asian sheng, in general).  I tend to only ever experience such teas as 10 or so year old versions, and we can't be sure that the styles from 20 years ago were identical.

Here are some examples of how that has went in practice; reviewing a 2014 Wawee Tea Thai sheng version, and a 2017 version, in 2023, so 6 and 9 year old versions.  Those teas were good, and not really through a more complete 20 to 25 year transition cycle just yet, so it was early to judge them.  This review covers two 2006 Hong Tai Chang versions, reviewed in 2018, with one from Tea Side, so those two were a dozen years old then, just a little further along.  One of those I own a cake of, unless I've got the version wrong, and it's a similar one.  Not so much of it is left now, but I have some I could try as a 20 year old tea.  It's fine, but it would be better if I was more into aged sheng.

I think I'm really referencing three different styles of tea.  The old HTC versions were made by a foreign (Thai) based Chinese producer back then, and Wawee Tea was making their own versions, without direct outside input, back in 2014 to 2017.  The plant material may be the same today, the same exact plants, but we can't be sure that the style is exactly the same.  Presumably they would've only improved processing over time, but there could've been some style shift, to being just different, versus better.  For "better" we need to include "better how," better to drink as new tea or more suitable for 20+ year aging.

Even if someone tries all of these teas just mentioned, as I have, it's difficult to say exactly what you are experiencing is better, worse, or different in style a decade later.  In this writing in 2015 I'm reviewing 2004 Thai "pu'er-style" versions, again from Tea Side, but I can't place how much my own perspective on the same teas has varied in 11 years.  So we make of it what we can.

Unconventional but standard vendor sources:  Tea Mania is the main source that comes to mind related to this (based in Switzerland; that's different).  

That vendor has shared samples with me a couple of times over the last few years, and I've bought more tea from them than from almost any source over the past decade, probably more in total than from Viet Sun.  Not so much recently, because I've been focusing on South East Asian versions and sources.  The styles coming out of Thailand, Vietnam, and Lao have become personal favorites.  Myanmar teas are great too; I've tried a good bit of those, and still own some, some of which has been aging at home for around a decade.

Tea Mania is one of the best sources online, per my judgment, even if only based on their Lucky Bee value oriented Yiwu cakes line.  Their other gushu range versions are more exceptional, of course, but not in terms of value, of quality and pleasantness in relation to prices.  You just can't buy decent Yiwu at low prices.

Tea Mania 2021 Jing Mai and 2022 Yiwu sheng pu'er

Since the main theme here is where I've been buying tea recently I might mention some tea that's in-transit.  I bought a couple of value oriented cakes from Chen Sheng Hao, after reviewing a cool sample set of mini cakes from them a couple of years ago.  Those were higher end, more exceptional teas, but I can't really be buying 50 to 80 cent per gram versions, so this order was about following up on someone commenting online that their lower cost blends are really good.  We'll see; I'll be writing about that a couple of times over the next few weeks.

Some other vendors have been sending me tea that fall into this range.  By "unconventional" I mean outside the normal Yunnan Sourcing / Crimson Lotus / etc., etc. paradigm.  You don't tend to see Chen Sheng Hao mentioned in places like the Reddit r/tea recommended vendors list.  Oriental Leaf, a vendor based in China, sent some exceptional hei cha versions over the past couple of years, novel variations of Fu zhuan or Fu brick teas; they work as another example.  Or Legend of Tea, a Malaysia based vendor, sent some Liu Bao and sheng to review, and they're probably as good a source as any for aged Liu Bao.

Oriental Leaf Fu zhuan hei cha (based on white tea)

     

Atypical naming stands out about one of those sources; the term "oriental" fell out of favor in "the West" about 15 years ago, regarded as pejorative (as negative).  Here in Bangkok they don't keep up with that kind of political correctness; businesses still use that term in business names, and the average person wouldn't be aware of that change.  But then people mostly only use English as a second language, which changes things.

It could seem odd to buy tea from abroad, in other countries than where it is from, from vendors who aren't producer sources.  But it would make sense to, if they could source better tea than standard US or European vendors are selling, and sell it for less than those places.  You would be "getting in on" lower local pricing in other markets, in this case in China and Malaysia.  Shipping would add extra cost, but it costs money to ship within one country, so it's only adding the difference between that and international shipping.  If it's $20 more then buying at volume could offset that, by a lot.

Let's add a reviewed example of that, from one of those sources, from Legend of Tea (out of Malaysia) to make that point clearer:

Legend of Tea 2024 Mengsong sheng pu'er (reviewed in this blog here in 2025)

This tea sells for 118 RM (Malaysian Ringgit), which is equivalent to $29, for a 200 gram cake.  That price looks like a citation mistake, doesn't it?  3 or 4 years ago it would've been more normal.  Their description:

This year's Xiao Ba Wang is sourced from ecological tea trees in the high mountains of Mengsong Da Man Lü, this sheng Pu-erh boasts a fresh, sweet aroma complemented by the distinctive alpine forest fragrance. Its naturally refreshing profile is soft, sweet, and intricately layered, offering a gentle yet rich tea-drinking experience. Each sip reveals a long-lasting sweetness with a refreshing, full-bodied aroma that lingers delightfully.

That's $50-some for a 357 gram amount that sounds like Yunnan Sourcing's higher end $110-120 or so current Impression cakes.  My review notes adds my impression:

#2:  depth and complexity pick up.  Bitterness starts, but that's still moderate.  Mineral undertone is pronounced, of course in a light mineral range, nothing like in Wuyi Yancha or other roasted oolongs.  Flavor seems to include floral tones, and a creamy sort of feel is adjoined by a touch of creamy flavor.  Sounds like oolong range, doesn't it?  But the feel structure of this is sheng, and the included bitterness, even if it's not challenging...

#4:  more of the same; it isn't changing quickly.  Aftertaste and bitterness may both dial up slightly.  Intensity is definitely good, and again the balance and overall effect is nice, the lack of flaws.  Flavor range doesn't extend to anything so interesting, but it comes across as good tea, pleasant and intense.  

I think I'm feeling the effects already... 

So it was pretty good, which I was characterizing as on the basic side, because I'd been drinking a good bit of distinctive, high quality, kind of expensive gushu around then, teas more in the 80 cents a gram range, $150+ for 200 gram cakes instead of $30.  

I've tried that since, and it's pretty good tea, relatively speaking.  It's much, much better than any standard factory tea; maybe two full levels above that.  I mean in relation to Dayi 7542, and also to many others that don't have the external image of being benchmark versions.  For $50-some for a standard size cake it's underpriced by a lot; from just about any other sources it would cost closer to $100, or maybe over that.

What are standard vendor sources then?

This last category description raises a question:  if those are unconventional exceptions, as sources go, what are the most conventional options?

Yunnan Sourcing comes to mind, but that's only a conventional, standard option related to a category, to what I'm calling a market style vendor, one who sells many produce categories and product versions (thousands, in their China based site, and still a lot in their US site).

For pu'er other main vendors are Farmerleaf, White 2 Tea, Crimson Lotus, and Bitterleaf (beyond King Tea Mall and Chawang Shop being good options, again what I'm calling market style vendors).  They would "only" sell a few dozen versions at any given time, a good selection, but limited enough that you could page through it.  

Rishi, which I mentioned, and Adagio are examples of older form, generalist, medium quality, higher volume outlets.  There's nothing wrong with preferring some relatively conventional rolled oolong, or whatever else might seem a bit standard.  People often like some teas as a comfort tea, or to drink with food, and preferences change over time.

To me Teasenz is a good example of a generalist vendor, based out of China, one who sells a little of different things, that is well-regarded and a good value.  Why them, when there are probably 100 relatively similar outlets online?  It's just an example I'm familiar with, and they've put the time in to be somewhat established as a known brand.  I've bought tea from them at least a couple of times, and it was good, nothing too amazing, but good for what it was represented as.  Actually a shai hong pressed cake I bought in 2017 was well beyond that, this tea; they could also find versions that stand out.

Really there aren't standard generalist vendors, typically.  One builds up an image related to a main theme and type range, if at all (like Yunomi for Japanese teas, or those other pu'er vendors already mentioned).  In some cases they grow to be well-regarded standard options, but more often their businesses just succeed, and they do a little better year to year.

Gua Feng Zhai gushu sheng pu'er

the 6th round; it stayed pleasant and kept transitioning

I'm trying the last sample of a set of teas from Tea Mania, shared by the owner Peter (many thanks!).  This represents the end of a number of sets of teas I had to try from the middle of 2025; kind of an interesting symbolic turning point.  I won't mind not reviewing much for a month or two, or if it's a slow year after that.  It's a nice experience related to trying the teas, but it involves at least an hour of focus and writing, and then more editing later on.  It's not the time that I'm short on, it's using up that much focus.

This tea was exceptional (I'm writing this just after writing the notes).  I think every single sample from them was, in different ways.  Some vendors are pretty good about only curating what works well.  Farmerleaf is sort of like that.  Yunnan Sourcing sells everything under the sun instead, which works in a different way.  Then it would be a different kind of discussion if their in-house versions are comparable.  I stopped ordering those roughly back when I first started to, just over a half dozen years ago, not because they didn't work out, but I just kept on exploring other things, and other sources.

I bought very little tea in 2025; flying back and forth to Honolulu and living expenses in that more expensive place shattered our Thai-based budget and income.  I bought a 500 gram Xiaguan tea ball locally last year, as an exception, in a Bangkok Chinatown shop (Jip Eu), but the rest I bought was mostly just gifts.  It worked out; I had some tea around to drink from before (as my wife tends to mention), and vendors helped by providing new teas to try.  I'm ordering a few inexpensive cakes from a favorite Vietnamese producer source just now, but in general I'll probably stick to that form this year too.

I get it why people buy teas like this one I review, more towards the $1 per gram scale.  They can afford it, and it represents a type of experience you can't access for 20 to 30 cents a gram.  There's something pleasant about drinking more basic, more limited teas too though.  The ever-escalating quality level or novelty theme experience expectations can be a sort of trap.  It would never be enough.  But then if someone can easily afford to spend a couple thousand dollars a year on tea then why not; there is range beyond this expense level that might even make sense.

I was going to add that past a certain quality level of material, or the experience enabled by one, it changes the experience to be one you can just focus on.  But maybe that goes too far.  I could drink a relatively basic Dian Hong, or even some good Darjeeling, or upper-medium quality green tea, and spend an hour outside in our driveway, between the garden spaces, watching our cats chase each other around.  The tea wouldn't be as refined, and it wouldn't change as much across infusions, but the basis of the experience is internal, not from that drink input.  

Maybe trying something new is a different thing; if this had been a Dian Hong I've already drank half a kilogram of the novelty of new experience wouldn't be there.  But still, I think cultivation of being present in the moment of a pleasant and extended experience is not tied to experiential variety, as much as approach and perspective.  It should be possible to drink ordinary tea in a shopping center parking lot and have a wonderful, peaceful experience.  I suppose the parts to tend to build up to the whole though, and an ocean view or green garden spaces would work better, and better tea.  

Like this one:

Gua Feng Zhai Gushu 2021  ($154 for a 200 gram cake)

Discover the exquisite craftsmanship of teamaster Panda with our Gua Feng Zhai Gushu, a distinguished tea known for its exceptional quality. Sourced from the renowned Gua Feng Zhai region, this tea is crafted from premium Gushu material, meticulously hand-pressed into pu-erh cakes at Yang Ming’s artisanal manufactory. The dedication to traditional, handmade processing and the careful selection of tea leaves are what set this tea apart, ensuring a product of unparalleled quality.

Gua Feng Zhai’s pu-erh teas are treasured for their rarity, produced in extremely limited quantities each year, making them highly coveted by collectors and tea enthusiasts alike. The Gua Feng Zhai Gushu is particularly suitable for long-term storage, with the potential to develop richer and increasingly complex aromas over time, offering a truly dynamic tea experience.

Harvest: Autumn 2021

Pressed: 2021

Typ: Sheng

Aroma: Strong, strong Cha Qi but also mellow taste

That's a bit heavy on marketing, but at least the tea is as good or better than the spin frames it as.  It's interesting that it's an autumn harvest tea.  Flavors and other aspects could vary some, but in general those tend to be less intense than spring harvest versions.  One comment here in the review kind of ties to that, but intensity was still pretty good.  Bitterness and astringency were quite moderate, so feel and flavor stand out more, especially flavor.

This probably is a high demand local area, as this implies, or more or less plainly says.  That would be why an autumn harvest version is being sold for this pricing, which for how good this tea is seems like a pretty good value.  I end up concluding that it seems good to me now, that waiting to see how it changes in another decade wouldn't make sense (mentioned in that listing, about aging potential), but I guess that's a judgement call.

It would've been interesting to see more of a flavor list in this description, since I'd guess that it has changed some in the past 5 years.  Those descriptions always vary by interpretation anyway, as the one that follows would.

Review:

Infusion #1:  the dry tea scent was really fruity.  Fruit comes across quite a bit in this first light infusion.  It's close enough to dried mango.  I'll probably keep changing that, or adding to it, but that works for now.  

The tea already has pretty good depth and balance, even though it's just getting started.  Complexity is limited, but it's not even wetted yet.  There's a nice mineral layer base, and creaminess.  That's more common in oolong but it can come up in some sheng, in a different way.  This tastes like pear too, now that I think of it.  That might be an overall favorite aspect inclusion, for me, when balanced with other flavors that match with it.

#2:  Pear, dried mango, and mineral base is already a good start for description this round.  There's a warmer range aspect that matches nicely with the rest, but it's integrated, not easy to describe.  As always in this range interpreting it as partly floral also works.  The two themes might even connect; chrysanthemum has a nice warm, rich, floral texture, and part of this is like that.  

It's complex enough that someone like Don Mei could go on and on describing this round for 10 minutes.  Maybe it does also taste a little like butter cookie, or like a yellow cake.  Maybe seeing it as including a hint of spice also works, just a touch of nutmeg, or maybe there is a light citrus edge.  Take all that with a grain of salt; it's complex, and there is more to it, but I think the first half dozen aspects that I mentioned make the most sense as an interpretation.

It's unusually good.  Does that come across in listing the flavor aspects?  It balances well, and that mix of depth, sweetness, complexity, and overall balance is just great.  There is enough bright range to complement the richer, deeper flavors perfectly, and it's just not a heavy or challenging tea.  Feel is full but aspects like astringency and bitterness don't really come to mind.

For being a 2021 tea this hasn't transitioned that much, but probably some.  This is where more gradual, not so hot and humid storage really shines.  In Bangkok this would've been heavier and further along by now, but it's better this way, I think.  It would probably good in a different way in another 15 years, but to me it's too good now not to just drink it.

#3:  it might integrate and balance even better, even though it's similar.  Mineral picks up, and it had been pronounced before.  I guess that's part of the "depth" people claim relates to gushu forms.  And then another part, or other parts, might be harder to pin down.  One positive input could just relate to it being this good.

Fruit does stand out less, giving up space for that mineral and warm richness.  I guess that also makes the floral range seem to stand out more.  You could probably emphasize the lighter, brighter flavor range by brewing this even faster (I'm using around 10 seconds), and ramp up feel and heavier aspects by letting it brew longer.  To me this is pretty good, a nice balance.  Maybe brewing it a few seconds faster would be as good, or possibly slightly better, and over a few rounds that would get you an extra round.  I'll try it brewed fast next round.

#4:  a flash infusion is probably a little too light.  It still includes plenty of flavor, but the feel thins out.  That really fast brew pacing is more for sheng versions that are overly intense.  A spice note like sassafras shows up, tried out this way.  Or maybe it was evolving towards that anyway.  Again it's quite pleasant.  

It has worked out well to try this tea last from the set of samples Peter shared; it's really pleasant and distinctive.  It will be interesting to see what this sells for.  It reminds me of a past personal favorite from Nannuo, that probably wasn't this good, but that paralleled some of these flavors.

#5:  spice range definitely picks up, but it's broader than the sassafras was last round.  Describing it clearly isn't going to work, even in parts.  One part is that, and another is a driftwood sort of sweet and dry woodiness, like how balsa wood smells.  Then that's rounded out with root spice, more like ginseng, maybe just not quite as punchy and medicinal as ginseng (which is also subtle, in a different sense).  It has changed a lot over the last three rounds.  That really short infusion approach could also relate to slowing the transition, or trying to, to get the most out of the tea where it's at in the cycle.  

Of course these flavors link well with the pronounced base mineral tone, which isn't dropping out.  Feel and aftertaste are significant, but those can be more intense in some other versions.  Overall balance is the nicest part, the way it all comes together each round.  Usually I'm bored with writing notes by this point but I'll describe one more round, even though it will probably change some after that.

#6:  it changes less than it had over last rounds.  Mineral and warm spice tones pick up enough that it's taking on a more savory character.  Probably as a much younger tea astringency and bitterness would have been a bigger input, and these warm tones wouldn't have been nearly as pronounced.  To me this represents when partial aging works, when limited transition can be positive, even without trying it then.  

Then again I would've liked the intense bright flavors when this was quite new, even with more bitterness and astringency included.  Bright floral range and lighter fruit range probably would have stood out.  It's nice like this; these warm tones work.  The tea retaining some light and bright range makes them balance well.  Again I wouldn't wait a few years to drink this to see how all that changes; it's in a nice place now.

2022 Lishan Tie Guan Yin, 2021 Formosa Tie Guan Yin

Lishan left, in all photos (much greener and lighter in brewed color)

I'm back to reviewing, covering two oolong versions from Tea Mania, a vendor based in Switzerland.  These were contributed for review, more or less, and also just shared by the owner as a tea friend (many thanks!).

Their teas are pretty solid, so I went into trying these with high expectations.  They lived up to them.  That can be a problem, expecting teas to be on the far side of above average, because if anything is missing some of the expected type-typical aspect range, and aspects that serve as quality indicators, or just isn't a tight match to preference, then it can seem all the worse, where with more neutral expectations that would just be normal.

I wanted to add a little personal update here as well.  I've just returned from living in Hawaii again for a month, staying where my kids go to school in Honolulu.  That was the second month long outing there in the last half a year, and I'll go back again in two more months, for the end of Keoni's senior year there.  It has been quite an interesting four year cycle.  Of course that education was the goal, and that part worked.  Switching over employment back to the US didn't.  Living between the two locations and cultures wasn't really intended.

I suppose because I've spent most of the last 18 1/2 years here in Bangkok, and I still spend far more than half the year here, there isn't really any adjustment to work through going back to Thailand.  In Honolulu I feel like I am adjusting for the first couple of weeks, and it could feel more natural for the entire first month.  Of course it's fantastic there; that helps.  I swam in the ocean, out to a flag about 200 meters out, at least a dozen times in a month.  Running goes better there, due to the cooler climate, just not so much this time related to an Achilles tendon problem.  

I met an interesting tea contact there this time, but left out telling that story, in part to avoid going through the permission step, and because there wasn't that much of a consistent story to it.  It felt like meeting new friends; it was nice.  Discussion was all over the place, as it should be.

No matter where I spend time with the kids things go great, so either place, or anywhere else, is suitable for that.

Back to business here; I'll try to look up listings for what I tried.

The first one I couldn't find; it's not this:  Lishan Tieguanyin  ($31 for 50 grams), even though that's also from 2022.  That's too oxidized; it really can't be the same tea.  Or maybe it is, and that just seems completely impossible to me. 

It's lighter, more like this one:  Lishan Medium Roast ($25 for 50 grams).  But that's made from Qing Xin cultivar, and it's not the right year either (from 2015).  They might buy a lot at one time and then be ok with selling it out over years.  It might be similar to this version, Gaoshan Tieguanyin, just from a different year, with that one listed from 2025.

That second one seems to be this:

2021 Formosa Tieguanyin  ($25 for 50 grams)

Formosa Tieguanyin, hailing from Pinglin and harvested during the spring season, undergoes traditional processing methods, resulting in a tea with a medium to strong degree of oxidation. This oxidation level is notably reflected in the green leaves with a delicate red edge, creating a  a beautiful amber liquor.

The aroma of Formosa Tieguanyin is robust and floral, a quintessential trait of spring teas, accompanied by subtle toasted notes that add depth to its profile. Its fragrance evokes hints of jasmine and magnolia, creating a harmonious bouquet. Depending on the quality of the water used, it may reveal a refreshing, slightly acidic note, adding to its complexity. As you savor this tea, you’ll notice a gentle spiciness and honey-like undertones in the cup, making it a truly multisensory experience.

One of the unique attributes of this Formosa Tieguanyin is its enduring finish in the mouth. The reverberation of its flavors persists over an extended period, inviting you to savor and contemplate its intricate character in meditative silence. Thanks to its traditional processing, this tea is well-suited for storage without compromising its aroma. Over time, as it matures, the aroma transforms, unveiling its own distinct charm.

Harvest date: spring 2021

Aroma: floral notes, reminiscent of jasmine and magnolia, honey undertones

Oxidation: approx. 50%.

Roasting: medium

Terroir: Pinglin, Taiwan

I'm more familiar with sheng pu'er pricing, so I won't be able to add much about the relative value of these.  Are they good for costing in the 50 cents a gram range?  I think so.  You don't find versions as inexpensive as some other types range for better quality Taiwanese oolong; it seems you pay to get versions in that category.  Up towards $1 a gram is normal, and the 50 cents per gram range for good versions is quite fair.

Maybe that's not so much, or maybe it's out of some people's budgets; it just depends on expectations.  But I doubt that you can find anything in a similar quality level in a lower price range.  There must be some decent oolong out there for less, but these have all been exceptional, well beyond decent.

I usually talk through input factors a lot more.  This doesn't discuss any differences related to Tie Guan Yin and more standard Qing Xin variations, and barely touches on the aging issue, that these are nearly 4 and 5 years old.  It works to just describe them.

Review:

2022 Lishan:  this is a bit overbrewed (ok, maybe even more than a bit); I was looking at something online and left it for over a minute.  Not ideal as controlled review processes go, but the tea will be fine.

It's a little strong, but still quite pleasant.  It will interesting seeing how a light version works out, the opposite sequence I normally experience both forms in.  Mineral tone is positive.  Feel is thick and full.  A vegetal range note is harder to place; it integrates well, and it's not negative, but it's less clearly positive.  This includes plenty of that type-typical mineral base and floral range, it's just in an unusual form for being brewed a bit strong.  

Nothing negative stands out; this is one purpose of using stronger infusions, to identify flaws better.  That vegetal range should lighten at a normal infusion strength.

2021 Formosa:  this is in a completely different flavor and character range.  It was more oxidized and more roasted, most likely.  I've always loved that effect when those two things balance well.  I think they will for this version, but again being brewed slightly strong doesn't show it's true potential, beyond highlighting that it doesn't include certain kinds of flaws.  

There's an interesting spice range in this, difficult to determine between root spice and bark spice range.  My first guess is that it spans both; it's quite complex.  One part actually is along the line of cinnamon, but there's a lot more to it.  It will help trying it lighter; that can work better for separating flavors.

Of course both have full feel and pronounced aftertaste expression, brewed a little strong.

Lishan #2:  creamy, light, sweet, and rich.  It is much better in a conventional infusion strength, but it wasn't so bad extra strong.  There's a characteristic high mountain oolong range this covers really well, a mix of base mineral, creaminess, and floral range.  I suppose this is probably identifiable as a region-specific example, and I've tried plenty of tea from different areas in Taiwan, but not enough over the last few years to stay familiar with that.  It's hard enough tracking how that goes for pu'er, which I drink much more of.  

If Tie Guan Yin is an exception for plant type for this area--which it says in a different product description--maybe the type-typical character would be harder to identify, without a lot of exposure.

It's very pleasant.  It didn't lose any brightness of freshness over nearly 4 years of settling (it's from 2022).  It probably did change, and if I'd been drinking a lot of oolong for the past half dozen years I could speculate about how.  Picking up depth?  Who knows.

I can't identify that bright floral range as a specific flower aspect flavor but anyone with even limited exposure with Taiwanese oolongs would already have a pretty good idea of what I mean.  It's not vegetal at all, in this form; that part switches back over, from when brewed too strong, back to floral range, and a flavor that actually seems a little like cream.

Formosa:  more pleasant, again, but of course just a lighter experience of the first round.  Those layers of warm and sweet spice really stand out.  Warm mineral and rich, round sort of feel complement them.  Sweetness is pleasant, for both of these.  Part of the warm, sweet range seems to resemble honey, or maybe that's caramel.  Or maybe both; this is on the complex side.  It's not far off dried fruit but I'm not noticing that standing out.  For being less distinct that could really be floral range instead.

Lishan #3:  maybe vegetal range does enter back in a bit, infused a little stronger than last time, but not overbrewed.  Intensity is good, but that was true when brewed quite light too.  Floral range is still pleasant, and creamy feel and some cream flavor stands out.  The mineral base is quite strong.  

This is exactly what many people would be looking for in a Taiwanese oolong experience.  It's familiar range.  I like it, I guess apparently just not enough to break from drinking pu'er all of the time to seek it out (and some black tea, but that's limited, more a main alternate).  I could drink this regularly and appreciate it.  In a limited sense pu'er seems more intense (sheng pu'er, I mean, of course), including bitterness, strong flavors, and a particular astringency.  But this is very complex and intense in flavor, and the rich feel and aftertaste provide secondary supporting experience.

Formosa:  I could speculate about another half dozen flavors being included in this, it's that complex.  But describing it as primarily in spice flavor range, a broad set of inclusions within that, and including mineral base, sweetness, and other range like caramel mostly gets it.  

It would work to interpret part as being a rich, heavy floral range, or seeing some of that towards-earthiness range connecting with dried fruit.  Maybe dried longan?  Only people who have tried dried longan would recognize how much of a compliment that is.  It's probably my favorite dried tropical fruit.  There's something so catchy about it that once you start eating it it can be hard to stop.  It doesn't stick around for long.  Of course once you think of the association it seems obvious, and accurate.  Let's say this tastes like dried longan, and set aside the rich floral part for now.

In later rounds the roast input didn't integrate as well, which is actually normal for this range of oolong.  I didn't take notes past these early rounds but it held up to brew quite a number more.

Both are really good.  Both are extreme examples of the positive potential of Taiwanese oolong.  I'm curious what the aging input contributed, nearly 5 and nearly 6 years for both.  They mellowed and deepened?  It almost had to be positive, given where these are now.  

There isn't a hint of negative aspect range in either.  That can be hard to appreciate, noticing something that isn't there.  And intensity and complexity is great for both.  If this more oxidized and roasted version isn't too costly it would be ideal for buying quite a bit of, to drink over the next decade, and then to experience as a truly aged version (which of course would seem all the more true after 20 years, not "only" 16).  

Looking back at the included price, added during editing, this is 50 cents a gram.  It could pay off to buy some to drink and some to forget about for awhile.  

I left out part of the personal backstory, about the tasting.  I had changed countries less than a week before, which didn't add too much jet lag, but I had cut my thumb hand-washing a knife earlier that morning, and went on to get stitches later.  I don't think it threw off my perspective much, but in retrospect it was a little strange doing a relaxing tea tasting between those two steps.  I didn't think the injury was so bad.

Our cats are just now experiencing exploring the outdoors, two kittens that are about half a year old now, or I guess maybe even 8 months.  That's not so distracting, more a pleasant step to witness.  They both just learned to climb trees this weekend.  I do end up getting up a lot, from a table outside, to check that they're not walking out into the soi / alley, going around our gate.  On a later day I climbed that tree myself, to help one down, since she hasn't figured out the down-climb process yet.

Life is all about those ups and downs, isn't it?  In two months I'll be a more direct part of my kids experiences, which I just hear about by video call now.  There's lots more drama when I'm not there, which I guess is partly a good sign, that I help keep it all tracking well when I am there.

Tea Mania Meishan and Lishan dark roast oolongs

Meishan left, Lishan right, in all photos

I'm reviewing two more versions of Taiwanese oolong from Tea Mania, from a set of samples provided for review (many thanks!).  As much just shared to try them, since I know that owner, but reviewing tea is what bloggers do.

These teas were exceptional.  That can mean different things; in some cases it's about a tea really matching a great version of a well-established type, or in others one can be quite novel.  These seem like one of each, with one a bit different than I've tried much of before, although the more-roasted, light style Lishan version also isn't exactly standard.  You don't see that balance of significant roast input and a lighter starting point (not very oxidized) that works this well.  But the Meishan version is really something else.  Maybe related to age?  It's from 2012, while the other is from 2019 (well settled, but the other seemed to pick up age related notes, that plum and extra depth).

I'll cite the vendor description and move on to review notes:

Meishan Dark Roast  (2019; $22.50 for 50 grams)

This Qingxin from Meishan is a well-oxidised oolong tea in the traditional style, expertly crafted by a renowned tea master in spring 2012. A true rarity among today’s Formosa oolongs, it features a distinctive dark roast that enhances its complexity. Grown at an altitude of 1100 meters in Meishan, the tea develops an abundance of deep aromatics characterized by floral and warming nuances reminiscent of Dongding tea, yet distinguished by a richer aroma and more intense flavor due to its high-altitude origin. The infusion presents a warm, robust yellow hue, free from bitterness even after prolonged steeping. Its fragrance is notably floral, with elegant notes of osmanthus and blossom honey. The lasting aftertaste invites contemplative enjoyment, revealing the tea’s intricate layers in each subsequent sip.

Thanks to its traditional oxidation and dark roasting, this Qingxin oolong uniquely preserves the cultivar’s inherent characteristics while imparting a rich, distinctive depth. The traditional craftsmanship ensures excellent storability, allowing its aroma to evolve gracefully over time, acquiring an enchanting maturity with age.

Harvest date: Spring 2012

Aroma: notes of honey, floral and toasty

Oxidation: approx. 50%

Roasting: strong

Cultivar: Qingxin

Terroir: Meishan, Chiayi, Taiwan

In writing review notes I was curious about pricing for this, since it really is so exceptional that it would be hard to identify a standard level for that.  At nearly 50 cents a gram this still seems like a steal to me.  You would typically have to use less mainstream curator sourcing to find teas like this.  Tea Mania only sells pretty good teas, so I guess those vendor types tend to not be completely distinct.

Lishan Dark Roast  (2019; $31.22 for 50 grams)

Lishan Dark Roast is a medium-oxidized, medium-strong roasted highland tea from Lishan using tea leaves of the Qingxin cultivar. Qingxin means green heart. It is the cultivar with the longest history of cultivation in Taiwan, the most popular among tea farmers and tea drinkers alike, and by far the most widely cultivated. When people talk about Oolong in Taiwan, they usually refer to it as “Qingxin-Oolong”. It is the same cultivar from which the traditional, genuine Dongding is made...

Lishan Dark Roast is a medium-oxidized, traditionally processed highland tea from Lishan. Due to the medium oxidation, the tea has a honey-like yet flowery aroma, which is complemented by the stronger body and more intensive taste experience typical of Oolong tea. The leaves are processed traditionally, resulting in red edges. The reverberation in the mouth is still clearly perceptible even over a longer period of time and it is a pleasure to trace the character of the tea in meditative silence and to fathom its complex character more and more.

Lishan Dark Roast is medium-strong roasted, which adds layers of flavor including warm, nutty notes, hints of caramel, and roasted barley. But, the character of highland teas is still clearly visible. Due to the traditional processing, it can be stored without any problems and without losing its aroma. With increasing age, the aroma changes and develops its very own charm.

Harvest time: spring 2019

Aroma: floral, with notes of honey, nuts and caramel

Oxidation: approx. 40%

Roasting: medium-strong

Cultivar: Qingxin

Terroir: Lishan, Nantou, Taiwan

This is priced a little higher than the other.  Preference is what determines how much someone connects with each tea, and I've always loved a bit more oxidation balance in well-roasted oolongs.  But that other version is really something; all those layers of richer, deeper flavors, maybe related to it aging for an extra 7 years.  

This second tea is well balanced, and quality is evident, so it's also good.  And around 60 cents a gram is probably pretty standard for way better than average quality, distinctive Lishan oolong.  Maybe even still a good value, but that first version is really unique.

Review:

Meishan #1:  this brews a lot darker than the other; that's interesting.  I may or may not be able to guess why.  This is going to be too light to get much of a sense of.  I let it go a lot longer than the 15 second or so typical infusion time, maybe double that, but it wasn't enough to open the rolled form.  The first impression is good; this tastes like dark caramel, with a good bit of complex range beyond that.  Maybe plum?  As a 2012 tea, 13 years old, that aged effect could be present.  A little spice range shows up beyond that.

Lishan:  even light this is really creamy and pleasant.  Feel is creamy, and taste is sweet, and not unlike cream.  It might include a much lighter caramel note.  These are going to be pretty good.  If the other version, the first one, is as good as it initially seems it would be hard to set a fair market price for it.  Aged oolong is expensive, and it's most often what seemed to be left behind somewhere, forgotten about, but this initially seems to be something else, a truly exceptional version.

Meishan #2:  it's very unique; good luck having a vaguely comparable experience to this tea through any other version.  I'm not saying that it's that much better than a lot of other range, but this just doesn't come up, per what I've experienced.  Or maybe it often does, and I've been focusing on sheng pu'er for so long that I've missed a lot of range that's out there.

A set of complementary flavors balance against each other; there is no one or two dominant aspects.  One part is plum, but it's integrated with the rest.  Another is dark caramel, and that stands out more than most of the rest.  Beyond that a warm, sweet, earthy range tastes a bit like a light roasted coffee to me.  Or spice, or maybe it's that both are present.  A heavy, mineral intensive flavor could resemble aged leather.  In the wrong context that wouldn't be as pleasant, but in this it balances well with the rest.

Feel is really rich too.  It's clean in effect, with a good sweetness level.  Aftertaste experience adds complexity.  It's like a checklist of what can go well in tea.  There's even a cognac like aromatic layer that seems to only show up in really high quality tea versions, within a certain range of types, not so uncommon in exceptional Wuyi Yancha versions.  I suppose if someone was looking for flaws a touch of sourness might be interpreted as such.  But to me it integrates well with the spice layer, as a flavor that makes sense along with that, and it's likely to drop out quickly.

Lishan:  of course this comes across as simpler, but it holds its own reasonable well for also being a solid tea, and for expressing different character.  The roast level works well for this, perhaps a bit lighter than for the other, or maybe it's that aging effect warms the tone of the other.  This is a 2019 version so it has had time to settle.  Floral range stands out more, and creaminess.  The creamy flavor, and to some extent feel, are more balanced by other range, with the rest stronger.  Feel has good fullness and richness.  

I suppose to some extent it suffers in comparison with the other, because that other complexity is really something, so many layers standing out at the same time, along with novel and exceptional flavor range.  This is more what you would expect from a well-balanced, good quality, high roast level Taiwanese oolong.  Floral range isn't as bright and light as in light versions, but it's not completely unlike that.  Mineral depth is there; that's a typical positive balancing aspect.

Meishan #3:  I'm brewing these between 15 and 20 seconds.  They would work well brewed faster or slower; the character would just balance differently.  Intensity is fine for using 10 second timing instead, and nothing negative would probably stand out brewed for half a minute.  I just don't prefer them either of those ways.

Creaminess seems to pick up; interesting.  Dark caramel had probably shifted to a medium caramel last round, and this is lighter, more like butterscotch.  There is an awful lot going on beyond that, but it seems to integrate to a complex background range at this stage.  You get a sense of depth.  If it had included sourness last round, which would've been a judgment call, you can't detect that now.  

Lishan:  this evolves to come across as more complex, and warmer in tone.  It's interesting how they're transitioning in two completely different ways.  In a limited sense it's more like the other, but they're still kind of different.  It still resembles the typical floral range of Taiwanese oolong more, but the warm tones are something else.  Producers can set a roast level wherever they like, but this probably needed those extra years to settle to be this exceptional.  Roasting it this much might seem like a gamble, and my guess is that it's paying off more now than it would have within the first year or two.

Peter, the Tea Mania owner, has mentioned that it's hard to try oolong versions and get a clear sense of what is going to be exceptional years later.  They settle in ways that are hard to predict.  All of this is what I don't experience enough of to get a sense of it, since I drank a lot more oolongs of different types prior to switching mostly to sheng, maybe 6 or 8 years ago.  Even then I drank more Wuyi Yancha.  Even if I had been drinking more Taiwanese oolongs regularly my tea budget wouldn't have supported trying many teas of this quality level.  In the same way the highest end range of sheng pu'er has only been available through trying samples, I guess, and mostly some that are sent for review.

direct sunlight threw off coloration; the two were more balanced in color this round

Meishan #4:  not so different than last round.  It's creamy and warm, with good depth, a nice mineral base, caramel range (or butterscotch; it's a judgment call), and probably some spice beyond that.  People could interpret it differently.  It could taste like cacao to some, or warm floral range instead.  When flavors are this complex what you get is kind of an interpretation.  Seeing one part as a warm wood tone might make sense, or leather, which seemed to match better in an early round, or maybe even cinnamon.  To me it's closer to cinnamon than those others.  It's really clean for including some of that earthier range.

Lishan:  also not transitioning as much as before, settling into a nice character.  It's nice experiencing that typical floral and mineral base range in a completely different form like this.  I was worried that these might be a little like Tie Guan Yin versions that are really light, that are re-roasted to restore deadened flavor effect.  Of course they're better tea than that, made more intentionally, but the higher roast and lower oxidation level inputs taken together can be a little off-putting.  This isn't like that.  I suppose if someone hated the high roast effect (probably medium-high; high roast implies a tea is all but charred, and this isn't), combined with brighter oolong floral range, then maybe it isn't so good, but I think most tea drinkers could relate positively to this.  

The other tea is something else again though.  It's not just a better version of a style that I've tried before, it's something relatively new to me.  I've tried some aged oolongs, maybe a half dozen versions (in rolled style, this Taiwanese range; twisted style range is something else), but nothing that balances in this sort of way.  That reminds me; I bought a decent amount of a 1992 version that I liked, that I haven't retried in a number of years; eventually I should check in on that.

I'll leave off here, since the story seems to be mostly told.  It's a busy errand day, since I leave to go back to Honolulu in less than a week, and I'm still working through cats being sick.  I might go visit them at the vet today, where they stay, even though I was there yesterday, since it will be a busy week, and I may not see much of them. 

I visited the cats that day, and once more a day or two later, and they're back to normal, quite lively.

Tea Mania Yibang and Mengsong sheng pu'er, from 2013 and 14

 

I'm reviewing two partly aged sheng pu'er versions from a Tea Mania set of samples I received awhile back.  Many thanks to Peter, the owner, for sharing them for review!  All their teas are exceptional, for the most part, so that drops out one potential concern, about whether I'll like them or not.  

Farmerleaf is like that, to add a reference point for people who aren't familiar with them.  Styles vary some; Farmerleaf is oriented more towards what that particular harvest year turns up in a local area, mostly in Jing Mai, but also beyond there, and Tea Mania uses limited input from a very reliable set of producers, from different areas.

In recent Reddit tea sub (group) posts two themes came up that relate to these, which I'll only touch on a little here.  One is semi-aged tea, particularly relating to dry storage, and the other relates to brewing dragonballs.  I didn't know where these were stored, when writing the notes, but the site listing usually includes that.  It wasn't in a place as humid and warm as Bangkok or Malaysia, and probably somewhere in Yunnan, where conditions vary a good bit.  

My input was that it can make a lot of sense to drink medium aged teas (in the roughly 10 year old range) when they are aged in dry conditions, changing very slowly.  Note that people use the terms aged or semi-aged in different ways.  For some aged sheng is 20 years old, period, so 15 years is semi-aged.  Others would shift around those times.  It really depends more on fermentation level, which ties to storage conditions input.

The same teas would push through a fermentation transition cycle fast where I am now, in Bangkok, losing the initial freshness and brightness over the first 3 to 4 years.  That's great for teas that need to change a lot, like Xiaguan tuocha versions, since they're much further through the process at 15 years, and pretty much completely ready at 20.  But for high quality sheng, versions that are approachable to begin with, it's not so ideal, unless you do actually drink the tea within that first 3 to 4 years.  Or you can wait for another dozen for more complete change-over, with 15 years old being the low end threshold for mostly age transitioned, even in wetter (more humid) storage.  This review covers more on that related to these two examples.  

But let's start with the vendor listings:

Yibang Gushu Spring 2013 (120 CHF, $148, for a 200 gram cake)

For this Pu-erh cake, teamasters Panda and Yang Ming used tea leaves from up to 300 years old tea trees (Gushu) and processed them into 200g cakes. We were especially looking forward to this Pu-erh because we personelly like tea fromYibang. The tea trees in Yibang are very special. The tea leaves of  the Yibang tea trees are noticable smaller in size and some of them turn under certain conditions purple.

Sichuan tea storage

Teamaster Panda was so kind and has left us some bing of this great tea. Since this tea was stored in Sichuan, the home of Panda, the riped very well. Sichuan is not as humid as Xishuangbanna but also not as dry as Kunming. In fact, it’s just the level we prefer.

Harvest: Spring 2013

Pressed: 2013

Taste: Fruity, a lot Cha Qi and a sweet aftertaste

Terroir: Yibang, Xishuangbanna prefecture, Yunnan province, China

Mengsong Dragon Balls ($62 for 80 grams, 10 8-gram balls)

My friend and mentor, Tea Master Panda, has once again dug up a rarity. Year after year Tea Master Panda has inspired us anew with fresh and well-known Pu-erh teas from the old tea mountains. But the lovers of stored teas were a little bit forgotten. For them we now have a well stored Mengsong Gushu from spring harvest 2014. Dragon Balls, Long Zhu in Chinese language, of 8g were made from the tea leaves in Yang Ming’s tea factory to offer the tea in small quantities or as a sample. The tea was stored in Xishuangbanna under natural conditions until 2020 and is already very ripe.

Harvest: Spring 2014

Pressed: 2014

Aroma: Mellow aroma, strong Cha Qi and fruity taste

Terroir: Mengsong, Xishuangbanna prefecture, Yunnan province, China

This same material is sold as 2014 gushu Mengsong cake, here, listing for $222 for a 357 gram cake.

Review:

Yibang:  that's very nice.  There's a really distinctive spice tone in this, in between sassafras and driftwood, or including those, and maybe some other range.  It could seem a little fruity, but it's mostly that.  Tones are warm, but this hasn't transitioned that much for being a dozen year old version.  It must have stayed in a cooler and dryer place.  Yunnan?  I'll check the description at the end.  Feel is nice, but it's too early for describing that just yet.

Later editing note:  Peter (Tea Mania) is describing this storage as in between humid and dry, but my own baseline relates to where I live in Bangkok.  Teas change fast here.  I don't think that's ideal for all types for all aging levels, but it is perfect for moving things along, if that's the intention.

Mengsong:  one of the challenges is going to be getting this to open up.  There never will be a parallel to the infusion cycles.  One positive about brewing dragonballs, which is mostly negative, as I see it, is that since the inner part starts to infuse over the first 4 rounds or so there is fresh, bright character being extracted across a lot of rounds, instead of it all transitioning over the first 3 to 5.  But beyond that it's a hassle getting it to infuse, and you don't get as clear an impression of the tea character at different stages for that mixing together of parts of the infusion cycle.

It's too light for description just yet, but this tea is really good.  There's a pretty good chance that I've tried it before; it seems familiar.  It's bright, floral, sweet, and light, but even for all that you get a sense of great intensity and complexity setting in, and maybe even refinement.  This tea version is probably worth the trouble of messing with dragonballs.  But in talking to Peter in the past, the Tea Mania owner, they pressed dragonballs to use as sample references for teas, not to sell as those, so someone buying this version--if it's still available--might relate to the cake form.

Later edit:  they sell both forms; that's convenient.

Yibang #2:  that interesting spice range picked up.  It includes medicinal herb spice as well, a general range that may or may not seem descriptive.  I get a sense that there may be a spice related flavor I'm missing referencing, that something out there does match this.  Or it's probably so complex that only a most distinctive range could match, and there would be more.  This includes sassafras, and also something like ginseng, and some medicinal spice or even incense spice (sandalwood, maybe).  Someone really dialed into this range would absolutely love it, and others might not like it.

Feel has a bit of body and dryness.  I suppose that seems to connect with what I'd expect from bark spice flavor, and again the specifics within this range are pretty open to different interpretations.  It wouldn't be unusual for someone to see that as connecting with warm mineral, or for others to miss that in a description list.  Brewing it on the fast side, slightly faster than I have been, is probably optimum.  Flavors are plenty intense, and as is typical for many warmer and mineral or mild earth oriented teas a lighter brewed intensity works better.

This certainly isn't "going dead" in terms of being in an in-between aging / fermentation transition phase, the awkward teen years theme people mention. 

Mengsong:  starting to infuse.  Warmer tones pick up in this already.  It's still fairly light and bright, especially for this age.  Where it lands in the balance is fine.  Bitterness has mostly evolved out of the flavor profile, as for the other, but I would have surely loved this at half this age, at higher intensity, with more bitterness, some extra astringency, and lighter flavor tones.  It seems like it's going to be quite positive just now, so I don't mean that as criticism.  

Flavors and feel don't always make sense at different ages and transition levels, but these both seem to.  Maybe because it's not a bit further along, because the transition process was slower due to cooler and dryer storage?  I'll add more on that in an intro at the editing phase.

A more flavor-list oriented description will probably make more sense next round.

the fermentation level color difference is obvious, but the Mengsong does darken over rounds

Yibang #3:  brewed light this is really nice; intensity is still high, and complexity comes across even better.  I broke form and didn't brew 8 grams of this, maybe more like 5 or 6, and it was a good call, to help moderate intensity.  It's odd that so much intensity comes up this far into aging transition.  It's not bitter or astringent, it's just that the flavor is intense, and you get plenty from it brewed light.

It's still in that broad spice range, all warmer tones, just not heavy in character.  Again it's sassafras, some medicinal spice (maybe back spice oriented?), with some incense spice, along the line of sandalwood, to the extent I can remember that scent.  It would be funny if this tastes a lot like patchouli smells and I just don't remember that.  

There is also a light mint note in it, that integrates with the warmer spice so much that it's hard to identify.  Thais love to smell very strong scented mixes of spices, ya dom, to clear their nose or brighten their mood, and this isn't so close to that typical mix but it might overlap a little.  That mint might be evolving into camphor range, where it had been brighter before.  Camphor probably should be on the short list of main flavor aspects.

Mengsong:  this is finally unfurled enough that I'm breaking it apart, ripping it with my fingers, so it will brew much differently next round, and the one after it will be expressing a more developed character.  At this stage it's still quite light, but also very pleasant.  It's sweet, floral-oriented, and creamy.  

I'm starting to get blasted on these teas and this one isn't even really infusing completely yet.  I may need to eat something and walk around a little after the next round.  

Ordinarily it doesn't make sense to drink two together like this, not so much because you can't identify the effects of just one, although some people value that, but because you can't make it through a 7 or 8 round infusion cycle and still drink the 14 to 16 cups of tea.  I'm not throwing this tea away to rush the process; it's too good to do that.

Yibang #4:  the proportion of the long list of flavors I keep mentioning keeps shifting.  Now camphor stands out all the more, and incense spice has replaced a lot of the rest.  It's the best this has been, and it was pretty good in earlier rounds.  Feel is smoother, richer, and not dry at all.  Depth picks up, and aftertaste intensity expands.  All of that is from using a pretty fast infusion time too, 10 seconds or so.  

This is on a path of evolving and improving so much that it may be as good or better for a couple more infusions, then I'd expect complexity to taper off a little in later rounds.  Infusion 7 isn't exactly a late round, but I mean this has been evolving to be better and better, more complex and with more depth, and usually that doesn't keep up for the whole cycle.

Mengsong:  it's a completely different tea, now that it has started brewing most of the leaves.  Flavor range is similar, but intensity is completely different, and the balance seems different, even though the character is really the same.  Mild spice tones pick up in this.  Nothing like the intensity and complexity of the other version, the Yibang, and this still connects back to warm floral range, and a lighter mineral tone base.  Sweetness is really nice in this.  It's not missing in the other, but it stands out more in this.  

Layers of complex flavors mix together.  One part seems like floral or spice, as I've mentioned, then others could seem vegetal, in a sense that's hard to identify.  It connects through a warm wood tone range, which is back to sandalwood, or even a touch of cedar.  It integrates and balances well.  For anyone who doesn't drink young sheng it may seem to include bitterness, but for a sheng drinker the inclusion is so moderate that it's easy to miss the role a very limited input of that plays.  Sweetness and other flavor range are much more intense.

These kind of show how I think that slower, dryer aging works for some brighter character teas.  In Bangkok the heat and humidity would have overpowered and shifted the brighter range in these at half this age, at 5 or 6 years instead of 11 or 12.  That's fine for making Xiaguan more approachable, or Dayi numbered series cakes, because those need a lot of transition, but these would have great to drink at half this age / transition level.  And they're still exceptional now, just in a different form, and sense.  

Next one might wonder if you couldn't just drink a wet and hot stored version of these at 3 years old to get the same effect, and although it's a personal judgment kind of the call I think not.  Moving so much faster, based on fast bacteria and fungus input, the effect isn't the same.  Bright tones drop out quickly, within 3 or 4 years, and the warmer range that enters in is slightly different.  I'm not saying that wet stored tea has to become musty, although it can be, but flavor range tends to be heavier.

Yibang #5:  I let these brew longer because someone delivered a package just as I poured that round.  It's a different perspective on the tea, I just wouldn't have tried it without that prompt, for how these were in the last round.

Intensity is a bit much.  It's not ruined, but the character is much different.  A sappy sort of resin flavor and feel emerges.  Camphor is still pronounced, and a different balance of all that spice tone I kept going on about.  It's good like this, and nothing really shows up as a flaw.  Some people might not like this flavor set or character, but to me that's not related to a quality limitation.  It's a positive sign that it drinks well overbrewed (a little; I didn't leave it for too long).  Effect is still clean, and that dry edge to the feel isn't unapproachable, it's just more resinous.

Mengsong:  this approaches the other tea's character more than it had last round.  It also picks up a woody, aromatic spice resinous character.  A hint of cedar is pronounced, and beyond that it's more incense spice range.  These might be good as truly aged teas, in however long one judges that to take, maybe another decade at this somewhat slow transition pace.  They're not fading in intensity, and the evolved character for both is still positive.  Some versions seem a lot more woody, but that often relates to a lower quality level and less positive character earlier on.  

At a guess I would have liked this tea better at half this age, better even than as fully aged, in another 8 to 10 years.  That's more about me liking younger range sheng than how this is changing, or probably will change.  I get it that many people like refined, complex, deeper flavors of aged sheng, that it's a very natural preference, especially as a developed one.  If I would have been drinking more aged sheng than young versions over the last half dozen years maybe I'd be on that page.  I do drink some, regularly, but I love the freshness, brightness, sweetness, and intensity of younger sheng, even though bitterness and more astringency go along with that.  Not the kerosene oriented flavor and harsh feel of cheaper factory teas; I mean related to versions that are good within the first few years, or even as brand new tea.

Yibang #6:  brewed lighter again the balance changes.  It is taking on a slightly more woody flavor; this is kind of fading.  This could have easily been where it was at infusion #8, if that last round had been for a normal timing.  This is still really nice, complex, with a decent feel, and good balance, but it's on the decline.  I did brew a few rounds later on and they were still positive, not noticing any unusual flavor transitions, or fast decline.

Mengsong:  this could be where part of this tea only being on it's 3rd infusion helps.  It retains some of that early-round brightness and freshness.  I suppose some of the late-round extra bitterness is already entering in too, since it was infusing for longer earlier on just to get it decompressed, so it's a mixed effect.  

This is still really positive.  A little more wood tone enters in, but not to the extent the other is moving in that direction.  The brightness includes a touch of citrus; that's something I probably missed in the last two rounds.  A little of that creaminess and floral range reminds me of the high mountain character of Taiwanese oolongs; that's pleasant, along with the rest.

Related to my own preference I do like the Mengsong better.  Again I might've liked it more 3 or 4 years ago, but it makes sense at this level, and shows promise for how it will be as an aged version, much later on.

Conclusions:

That's already most of what I thought of these.  It's hard to express in terms of aspects just how good these teas are.  They're good; quality level stands out.  It's odd saying that along with commenting that I tend to like younger versions, so for me they'd probably have been better a few years ago.  It's not at all a conflict, as I see it.

Value can be hard to assess, because the range of what is out there like these is limited, in comparison with younger / newer tea range.  Same for quality level; plenty of tea this good is available, but not as much as more ordinary versions are.  You'd have to know where to look to find it.

The Yibang version sells for $148 for a 200 gram cake, equivalent to $264 for a 357 gram version, and the Mengsong for $222 for a 357 gram cake of the same material.  That's a bit.  Only people with somewhat open tea budgets would consider these, but for sheng enthusiasts who value higher quality aged versions, who have that budget, $300-400 cakes are not such an unusual theme.  Or $1000 and up; there's no limit.  It's beyond the range I'm familiar enough with to critique, really.  But it's probably fair, maybe even a good value.

As I mentioned in the notes I've not leaned into exploring better aged sheng versions, and kind of couldn't, given that this higher pricing extends all the more to sample range, where none of it would be under $1 a gram.  In that sense buying 80 grams of the Mengsong for $62 is a good value.  People already feel however they do about the dragonball form, who are already in the process of exploring above average quality sheng pu'er.  It seems like a dozen years ago the conventional reaction was that it's a great way to try a little of these types of teas, and then within 8 or 9 years ago a loose pu'er community consensus was that they don't brew very well, so they stopped turning up as frequently.  Of course they're still around, even as newly pressed versions, but not like a decade ago.

cats coming down with the flu has been a running theme lately

her too