Placing different kinds of tea vendors in relation to types

 

Over and over people ask online about others' favorite vendors, and one part that gets lost is that there are different kinds of vendors, with different focuses.  Value can vary a lot, and quality level of tea.  Range of what is available from each varies.  

I'm going to try to place different kinds of vendors by category, mostly through the lens of trying teas from a few sources in the past half a year.  I'll need to extend that, to get to other main types and source examples, because I've only bought tea from four sources this year, that come to mind (online; I keep buying tea from a favorite local Chinatown shop, mostly to give away, but also for myself).  That's a lot compared to last year; more than for the whole year.  Of course these aren't intended to represent optimum sources; they just match my own preferences.

Related to the Reddit tea vendors list capture, the image at the beginning, it's strange that there is only three categories there, for beginners, US sources, and teaware.  That leaves out most applicable range, for the rest of the world, and for everyone who isn't a beginner (although it still probably works for 90% of that sub / group).  It's interesting that one cited source, for beginners, mentions curated tea selling for 10 to 30 cents per gram.  That's something of a contradiction, for reasons this further content will describe.

I'll start with a couple main types of sources I didn't get to, and then move on to examples of what I've tried, and how I see those mapping to categories and other comparable source options.  There are pros and cons of using different kinds of sources, that relate to what someone is looking for, in terms of type / style, and value, which I'm describing as cost in relation to quality level.  

A relatively low quality version of tea can still be a great value, if selling for a very low and fair price.  Of course that's only if someone is ok with drinking that tea.  A really costly tea can still be a great value, if quality level, rarity, and market demand all support that it's worth it.  

To put a rough price range to that anything under 10 cents a gram is selling at the low end, for specialty tea.  Under 5 typically relates to a different quality range entirely, for mass-produced, pretty limited in quality tea versions.  You can generally buy really good quality, in-demand versions for 60 or 70 cents per gram, and it all levels off quite a bit around $1 / gram (which is the first reference to why "curated" tea selling for 30 cents a gram or less makes no sense; you can only curate the medium quality level range for that pricing, which is still pretty good tea, but "curation" implies that it's better than that).

This won't mostly be about evaluating value for different kinds of sources, but as I see it that's one main running theme, along with how good the teas actually are, and how unique the teas being offered are.  You can buy above average Anxi Tie Guan Yin from lots of places, or Jin Xuan rolled oolong in Thailand; this is mostly about teas that are more unique, and harder to find.

Places I don't shop

Online market outlets:  in the past Chawang Shop was sort of an exception to this, and I had great experiences buying tea from them.  Yunnan Sourcing is really the main example (and I've had positive experiences buying tea from them too).  King Tea Mall is a well-known and typically favorably regarded source, but according to some Yunnan Sourcing products may be a little more consistent.  King Tea Mall is probably buying and selling more online, and Yunnan Sourcing would use pretty well established upstream sources at this point, since they were already around 20 years ago, operating out of Kunming.

These kinds of vendors offer everything under the sun.  That's less true of Chawang Shop, but I'm using this categorization in a positive sense for them, claiming that they offer a broad range of tea types across a range of quality levels at decent value.  Here's an interesting in-house Jinggu shou pu'er I bought from Chawang Shop 4 years ago, probably not typical of what they sell, but then I'm claiming here that they sell different things, varying grades of sheng and shou, and hei cha, so in a sense it is.  That tea was unusually inexpensive ($15 for 400 gram brick), because they were selling it before it was settled (from fermentation funkiness) as a special offering, and you really need to hold onto it for a couple of years to get good results out of it.

Filtering related to what you want to find is a requirement, and there would be hits and misses, related to quality level and value.  Getting input from others through online group discussion could be helpful.  In the past text blogs or sites like Steepster filled this role, but now Discord discussion is probably more helpful.  Facebook is more or less dying, in relation to tea discussion, and Reddit tea subs tend to be stuck on people repeating the exact same beginner questions every single day. 

Especially related to Yunnan Sourcing the option to buy at sample quantity is a main benefit of using such a source type.  You can buy a couple of dozen samples for the same price as buying a lot of just a few kinds of tea, which you may not like.  Per gram value isn't as good, but it's not a great value buying a tea you don't want to drink.

It would sound as if I've moved on to narrow down sources that work even better for me, and I guess that's fair.

Higher end producer direct sites:  there aren't many of these.  Wuyi Origin is a main example, ran by a family member--as a frontperson--by Cindy Chen, selling great quality Wuyi Yancha, Fujian black tea, and Dan Cong, Chaozhou oolong.  Usually a source selling a broad range is a bad sign, because then they're typically just reselling wholesale outlet sourced teas, or else Taobao sourced versions, but that vendor has family in both places (Wuyishan, Fujian and Chaozhou, Guangdong).

I would buy tea from them, but I've drifted into preference for sheng pu'er.  It happens to people.  They're a fantastic source for really good quality oolong and black teas, which are great ranges for almost everyone.  But tea that good is on the costly side, typically above 30 or 40 cents per gram, with many at 60 or so.  That's still a great value, given that other "curator" sources would sell the same quality level versions for around $1 / gram instead.  

I did just buy tea from a Thai producer, which is another example of a different form of producer-direct sourcing, but I'll list that in the next section.

Gopaldhara is a good example of a Darjeeling garden that sells directly, both within India and outside it (through two different pages).  Their teas are exceptional; they fit the "higher end" description in this category heading.  There are other resale outlets that buy and distribute Indian teas, like Vahdam and Golden Tips, and those are ok too, but buying directly is generally better.  You can find better tea and better values.

really good first and second flush versions from Gopaldhara, reviewed in 2020

Curator sources:  there are a few different variations of these, and they kind of run together with ordinary broad type online sources.  A favorite I recommend is Trident Bookseller and Cafe, in Boulder.  They evolved to source award winning and otherwise amazing versions over time, to sell in-house, and eventually expanded that to limited online sales.  They don't push to expand volume, to contend with other larger outlets; it supplements their other business themes and income streams.

Value is great through them; for what they sell the pricing is really low.  That's only possible because they're a lot more producer direct than almost any other sources.  In a sense they're doing what Tealet had set out to do more than a decade ago, but left off at becoming just another wholesale vendor instead (which is fine; that's the model that ended up working).   I suppose their business model might be problematic, for ramping up volume and earnings.  Trying to sell the best teas at a good value would cut into your potential profit margin, and it might be hard to really ramp up volume.

Why do you never hear of a source like Trident then?  In part due to gatekeeping; people wouldn't mention it to help prevent ruining their own source.  In part because their existing consumer base is probably limited.  And then they don't use a lot of standard broad-form advertising to help with exposure, as a larger volume oriented source like Rishi does.

Other curator or specialty themed vendors are out there, but I can't mention any related to using them as a source.  Floating Leaves for Taiwanese oolongs gets mentioned as an example, but again I've not purchased anything from them.  A good quality curator source in the US would need to sell at high market value just to profit, so their teas would end up all being priced around $1 / gram, which I can't afford.  In terms of old-school, established outlets Tea Habitat has been a known Dan Cong vendor for a long time, since US tea enthusiast circles first came to be back in the early 2000s.  

An example of an established online vendor who blurs this line, with that of an ordinary mixed-types source, might be Seven Cups.  They started as a Wuyishan area main source, and probably retain that focus, but as I recall they were positioned in between the range of curator (selling the best versions at high cost) and an ordinary source (more average quality, selling for less to emphasize value).  This really could be the sweet spot for a lot of people.

Why would you buy tea from them, if you could get better versions for less through Wuyi Origin?  I suppose you wouldn't, if that were true, and you knew about it.  But they would carry more range, and at some point people find sources they like and stop looking.  They don't always want to make it their life's mission to buy the best teas for the best value; they just want to be able to order good tea for good value.  

Most people also aren't going to read 2000 or so word blog post about the subject, which is fine, very understandable.

Where I buy tea (mostly this year, as an example)

I'll use where I've been buying tea as an example, starting with kind of an anomaly.

Rishi / larger outlets:  I only bought two versions from them this year, Thai and Lao sheng versions (pu'er, if that was from Yunnan, but lacking any type name if from South East Asia).  I kept wondering what their versions were like, so finally just ordered some to see (even though they don't represent where I usually buy tea).  They were ok.  They don't hold up well in competition from producer direct sources, but then that's kind of a main running theme here, that you get the best value buying as directly as possible, or from specialized vendors, when possible from sources outside the US.

They would still be fine for buying decent value, higher volume, broad type range, surely better than the average mall outlet that might be nearby.  There aren't that many mall outlets nearby now, since many malls failed in the US, and Teavana folded (was bought by Starbucks, then largely shelved).  

Some of Rishi's other sheng could be better than what I tried; it probably is.  You can't judge a source or a producer from one or two tea versions.  Or a tea type; you see that happen a lot in online discussion, and it just doesn't work.

Wawee Tea / direct Thai sourcing:  oddly I'm not mentioning this as a good option for most readers; they typically wouldn't sell directly outside of Thailand.  But I've just bought really exceptional Thai sheng and black tea from them, and reviewed both here.  

That's a normal, running theme in South East Asian countries; you can buy local versions from very small outlets, or even good sized producers, that wouldn't be readily available / Western facing, through Facebook pages and such.  

Thailand has two online shopping platforms, variations of Amazon or Ebay, in Shopee and Lazada.  Existing small vendors would often sell their teas through there.  There would be even more such sources in Vietnam, another favorite broad origin for me, so let's move on to a Western facing outlet from there next.  I should mention first that 101 Plantation is an example of a main, high volume producer in Thailand, for buying rolled oolong and such, and my favorite Chinatown shop is Jip Eu.  You could buy their teas through Shopee, I think (both of them), but not from abroad.

Viet Sun:  I've bought the most tea from Viet Sun over the past 3 or 4 years, of any source.  They're "Western facing," meaning set up for international shipping, and in the past for credit card payment use, although they mentioned preferring other payment options when I last ordered from them, just a month and a half ago.  Their teas are great.  

Y Ty (Lao Cai) indigenous village produced Viet Sun sheng (reviewed here)

these are so complex that they seem a little different every time I try them

There's a common theme among new, great value, new format vendors that they tend to sell range that's hard to find at great pricing, then later as demand catches up it's more in a normal Western market range.  Their sheng cakes might be priced from $80 to $120 now, or 200 gram versions for half of that; just normal price range, for lots of outlet types.  That would've been $60 to 80 3 or 4 years ago.  Part of that is inflation, and a lot is demand for that supplied tea bumping up.  I doubt that any of it is them increasing their mark-up rate, although that's at least possible.  People find out about types ranges and sources, then demand increases, and costs, starting at producers demanding more.  Usually quality becomes a little more consistent too, so better value is filled in a little on the other end, maybe just not enough to offset higher pricing.

Hatvala had been the earlier more market oriented source I used from Vietnam, and they're still there, and would still be a good source.  That change related in part to me switching to pu'er preference.  They sell some Vietnamese sheng, as maocha (loose versions), but Viet Sun specializes in it, and seeks out a broader range of perhaps more novel offerings.

Back to Thai themes:  Tea Side would be "our" equivalent source.  Their pricing is probably higher than either of these two Vietnamese sources, perhaps related to them leaning into the mark-up a bit more than is the case for those two Vietnamese sources.  As a unique source option whatever they set is the standard market price, because there aren't alternatives.  You have to by sheng for 40 or 50 cents a gram instead of 25 or 30 if there aren't any other options, or just don't buy it.  Maybe it's that limited production at the quality range they sell pushes that same theme "up" a level, and those few higher quality option producers can keep demanding more, as I said was probably now occurring in Vietnam.

Let's check on that, by reference to their pages and offerings.

These are Viet Sun's brand new cake offerings, selling for $45 to 53 for 200 gram versions, so for between just under $90 per standard 357 gram size--which they don't sell--and around $100 on the higher side.  That's actually not bad; that tea is better than just about any Western source version for $100 per standard cake size.

Tea Side's 200 gram cakes are selling for $65 to 85, based on the first four listings, for 32 cents to 42 cents per 100 grams, or $115 to $150 per 357 gram cake quantity.  Is it better than Viet Sun's versions?  I really don't know; it has been awhile since I tried it.  Maybe only equivalent, based on what I last tried however long ago, maybe 5 years back or more.

For someone less concerned about value, about price per gram, and for whom spending a few hundred dollars on tea isn't that much of an expense, then buying a good bit of both teas would make sense, and comparing the two.  It's not like when you order too much fresh green tea, and then a half a year later it's not as good.  Oolongs hold up well to even a couple of years of storage, and sheng changes in ways that are often seen as improvements, as hei cha do.

To me these types of teas evolve well over the first two years, even for styles that aren't favorable for even middle time frame aging, transitioning some over 6 to 8 years.  You can't really buy a 200 gram cake and plan to drink some and then keep some for 20 years, to see a full transition, or at least if you did there wouldn't be much for either consumption purpose.  

I personally wouldn't age these styles of teas anyway (SE Asian sheng, in general).  I tend to only ever experience such teas as 10 or so year old versions, and we can't be sure that the styles from 20 years ago were identical.

Here are some examples of how that has went in practice; reviewing a 2014 Wawee Tea Thai sheng version, and a 2017 version, in 2023, so 6 and 9 year old versions.  Those teas were good, and not really through a more complete 20 to 25 year transition cycle just yet, so it was early to judge them.  This review covers two 2006 Hong Tai Chang versions, reviewed in 2018, with one from Tea Side, so those two were a dozen years old then, just a little further along.  One of those I own a cake of, unless I've got the version wrong, and it's a similar one.  Not so much of it is left now, but I have some I could try as a 20 year old tea.  It's fine, but it would be better if I was more into aged sheng.

I think I'm really referencing three different styles of tea.  The old HTC versions were made by a foreign (Thai) based Chinese producer back then, and Wawee Tea was making their own versions, without direct outside input, back in 2014 to 2017.  The plant material may be the same today, the same exact plants, but we can't be sure that the style is exactly the same.  Presumably they would've only improved processing over time, but there could've been some style shift, to being just different, versus better.  For "better" we need to include "better how," better to drink as new tea or more suitable for 20+ year aging.

Even if someone tries all of these teas just mentioned, as I have, it's difficult to say exactly what you are experiencing is better, worse, or different in style a decade later.  In this writing in 2015 I'm reviewing 2004 Thai "pu'er-style" versions, again from Tea Side, but I can't place how much my own perspective on the same teas has varied in 11 years.  So we make of it what we can.

Unconventional but standard vendor sources:  Tea Mania is the main source that comes to mind related to this (based in Switzerland; that's different).  

That vendor has shared samples with me a couple of times over the last few years, and I've bought more tea from them than from almost any source over the past decade, probably more in total than from Viet Sun.  Not so much recently, because I've been focusing on South East Asian versions and sources.  The styles coming out of Thailand, Vietnam, and Lao have become personal favorites.  Myanmar teas are great too; I've tried a good bit of those, and still own some, some of which has been aging at home for around a decade.

Tea Mania is one of the best sources online, per my judgment, even if only based on their Lucky Bee value oriented Yiwu cakes line.  Their other gushu range versions are more exceptional, of course, but not in terms of value, of quality and pleasantness in relation to prices.  You just can't buy decent Yiwu at low prices.

Tea Mania 2021 Jing Mai and 2022 Yiwu sheng pu'er

Since the main theme here is where I've been buying tea recently I might mention some tea that's in-transit.  I bought a couple of value oriented cakes from Chen Sheng Hao, after reviewing a cool sample set of mini cakes from them a couple of years ago.  Those were higher end, more exceptional teas, but I can't really be buying 50 to 80 cent per gram versions, so this order was about following up on someone commenting online that their lower cost blends are really good.  We'll see; I'll be writing about that a couple of times over the next few weeks.

Some other vendors have been sending me tea that fall into this range.  By "unconventional" I mean outside the normal Yunnan Sourcing / Crimson Lotus / etc., etc. paradigm.  You don't tend to see Chen Sheng Hao mentioned in places like the Reddit r/tea recommended vendors list.  Oriental Leaf, a vendor based in China, sent some exceptional hei cha versions over the past couple of years, novel variations of Fu zhuan or Fu brick teas; they work as another example.  Or Legend of Tea, a Malaysia based vendor, sent some Liu Bao and sheng to review, and they're probably as good a source as any for aged Liu Bao.

Oriental Leaf Fu zhuan hei cha (based on white tea)

     

Atypical naming stands out about one of those sources; the term "oriental" fell out of favor in "the West" about 15 years ago, regarded as pejorative (as negative).  Here in Bangkok they don't keep up with that kind of political correctness; businesses still use that term in business names, and the average person wouldn't be aware of that change.  But then people mostly only use English as a second language, which changes things.

It could seem odd to buy tea from abroad, in other countries than where it is from, from vendors who aren't producer sources.  But it would make sense to, if they could source better tea than standard US or European vendors are selling, and sell it for less than those places.  You would be "getting in on" lower local pricing in other markets, in this case in China and Malaysia.  Shipping would add extra cost, but it costs money to ship within one country, so it's only adding the difference between that and international shipping.  If it's $20 more then buying at volume could offset that, by a lot.

Let's add a reviewed example of that, from one of those sources, from Legend of Tea (out of Malaysia) to make that point clearer:

Legend of Tea 2024 Mengsong sheng pu'er (reviewed in this blog here in 2025)

This tea sells for 118 RM (Malaysian Ringgit), which is equivalent to $29, for a 200 gram cake.  That price looks like a citation mistake, doesn't it?  3 or 4 years ago it would've been more normal.  Their description:

This year's Xiao Ba Wang is sourced from ecological tea trees in the high mountains of Mengsong Da Man Lü, this sheng Pu-erh boasts a fresh, sweet aroma complemented by the distinctive alpine forest fragrance. Its naturally refreshing profile is soft, sweet, and intricately layered, offering a gentle yet rich tea-drinking experience. Each sip reveals a long-lasting sweetness with a refreshing, full-bodied aroma that lingers delightfully.

That's $50-some for a 357 gram amount that sounds like Yunnan Sourcing's higher end $110-120 or so current Impression cakes.  My review notes adds my impression:

#2:  depth and complexity pick up.  Bitterness starts, but that's still moderate.  Mineral undertone is pronounced, of course in a light mineral range, nothing like in Wuyi Yancha or other roasted oolongs.  Flavor seems to include floral tones, and a creamy sort of feel is adjoined by a touch of creamy flavor.  Sounds like oolong range, doesn't it?  But the feel structure of this is sheng, and the included bitterness, even if it's not challenging...

#4:  more of the same; it isn't changing quickly.  Aftertaste and bitterness may both dial up slightly.  Intensity is definitely good, and again the balance and overall effect is nice, the lack of flaws.  Flavor range doesn't extend to anything so interesting, but it comes across as good tea, pleasant and intense.  

I think I'm feeling the effects already... 

So it was pretty good, which I was characterizing as on the basic side, because I'd been drinking a good bit of distinctive, high quality, kind of expensive gushu around then, teas more in the 80 cents a gram range, $150+ for 200 gram cakes instead of $30.  

I've tried that since, and it's pretty good tea, relatively speaking.  It's much, much better than any standard factory tea; maybe two full levels above that.  I mean in relation to Dayi 7542, and also to many others that don't have the external image of being benchmark versions.  For $50-some for a standard size cake it's underpriced by a lot; from just about any other sources it would cost closer to $100, or maybe over that.

What are standard vendor sources then?

This last category description raises a question:  if those are unconventional exceptions, as sources go, what are the most conventional options?

Yunnan Sourcing comes to mind, but that's only a conventional, standard option related to a category, to what I'm calling a market style vendor, one who sells many produce categories and product versions (thousands, in their China based site, and still a lot in their US site).

For pu'er other main vendors are Farmerleaf, White 2 Tea, Crimson Lotus, and Bitterleaf (beyond King Tea Mall and Chawang Shop being good options, again what I'm calling market style vendors).  They would "only" sell a few dozen versions at any given time, a good selection, but limited enough that you could page through it.  

Rishi, which I mentioned, and Adagio are examples of older form, generalist, medium quality, higher volume outlets.  There's nothing wrong with preferring some relatively conventional rolled oolong, or whatever else might seem a bit standard.  People often like some teas as a comfort tea, or to drink with food, and preferences change over time.

To me Teasenz is a good example of a generalist vendor, based out of China, one who sells a little of different things, that is well-regarded and a good value.  Why them, when there are probably 100 relatively similar outlets online?  It's just an example I'm familiar with, and they've put the time in to be somewhat established as a known brand.  I've bought tea from them at least a couple of times, and it was good, nothing too amazing, but good for what it was represented as.  Actually a shai hong pressed cake I bought in 2017 was well beyond that, this tea; they could also find versions that stand out.

Really there aren't standard generalist vendors, typically.  One builds up an image related to a main theme and type range, if at all (like Yunomi for Japanese teas, or those other pu'er vendors already mentioned).  In some cases they grow to be well-regarded standard options, but more often their businesses just succeed, and they do a little better year to year.

2007 8281 Yellow Label Mengku sheng pu'er, compared with 8891

it's like visiting an aunt and uncle there, even though I'm not that much younger

I'm reviewing a tea sample the owners of my favorite Bangkok Chinatown tea shop, Jip Eu, gave to me when I last visited them.  It's a little unconventional that we tried that tea there during that visit, so I'm writing about it again, based on a much closer form of review.  It was nice of them, to give me more to also try later, and perhaps wise of them to get that impression documented in a tea blog, just by handing over a sample.

It's a little odd, but my impression of it changed.  I was fasting that day (the first day of 5), and talking quite a bit instead of focusing in, so two things changed.  Three, really; I also brew tea for myself differently, because I based infusion timing each round on how I liked the last round.  My water source is probably also different (filtered local tap water, but the filtration must vary).

I don't have a listing or site description to provide, under the circumstances.  Jip Eu is on Facebook here, and they're on Shopee, for people online shopping within Thailand (maybe easier to find as "Three Shell Tea").  I looked up online listings, and two different vendors sell this for two completely different price points (the 2007 version, probably the same tea, although I guess this could be sold in different batch numbers, so maybe not identical).  Here is one of them, listed by Crafted Leaf Tea:

2007 Yellow label Raw Puerh - Iron Cake

Tea Bush : Grade 1 Mengku large-leaf tea bush species

Made from supreme old tree Mengku material, this is a high quality raw puerh from a village in the Brown Mount. region. After 13 years of aging this cake has enter its mature stage, most of the strong bitterness & fresh fruitiness of raw puerh has turn into a mature taste crafted by time.  Comparing with our 2003 Premium Yiwu Private Collection Raw Puerh - Chimney. It features less smokiness but with a very well balance of sweetness of ripe puerh and pinewood & mineral bitterness, followed by a lingering light caramel aftertaste. The aroma lingers wonderfully in the throat. After about seven or eight steeps, the taste becomes more tender and mild, and starts to show a light, mellow fruity fragrance.

So they're saying that it's a Mengku, Lincang region tea.  Google's AI input and another listing agree this was made by the Kunming Tea Factory for CNNP release (Zhong Cha).

This second "Dragon Tea House" listing sells this cake for $40, while the other vendor, Crafted Leaf Tea, sells 50 grams for $22.  What should we make of that?  I'll spare you the idle speculation, beyond this summary.  Maybe one isn't "real," maybe one is overpriced, maybe there are other factors.  $40 for a 19 year old standard producer tea does seem low.  This was selling for closer to that than whatever $22 for 50 grams works out to (nearly 50 cents a gram?  come on.).

This other 19 year old CNNP cake is pressed as a 500 gram version, now listing for $104 through Yunnan Sourcing, where I bought it awhile back.  I first reviewed that in 2019 here, seven years ago, and don't seem to have any newer comparison use review to check in on.  People who have been following Yunnan Sourcing for a long time, and drink sheng pu'er, probably have already bought this cake; somehow it became the standard entry point item to try out way earlier on. 

Reviewing tea labels:  this could be a step too far, but in looking at the three labels of the three teas presented as generally the same they don't match.  The Dragon Leaf version has a different bottom producer identifier name, and the yellow mark in the center is slightly offset (although the Crafted Leaf page includes pictures of both types of differently marked labels; strange).  Make of it what you will; it's not intended as evidence of any indirect claim.  Per the owners of this shop they bought a good bit of this tea back in 2007 from a producer outlet when it came out, which on the face of it sounds reliable.  Who knows though.

the Jip Eu cake label

Crafted Leaf Tea version

Dragon Tea House version (note the "product of") section

Review:

8281 left (my cats just broke one of the plainer cups I use most often; not helpful)

8281 Kunming / CNNP 2007:  it's interesting that this is much darker initially, both the leaves and the infusion.  They're both 2007 versions, but the other spent half its time in Kunming, in relatively dry and cool storage, and this tea version came to Bangkok back when it was produced, bought by the shop owners back then.  It has been stored hot and humid.

Flavors are heavy, of course.  It's relatively clean though.  Beyond the heavy mineral base a pine note stands out, and some medicinal herb tone.  Feel has a nice thickness already, and it has only been one short infusion, after a short rinse.  There may be brighter and sweeter spice that will evolve, or maybe even a touch of dried fruit, but I think this will be easier to read next round.

8891:  it is lighter in flavor range, but this has transitioned pretty far along already.  It's not how I remember it.  There could be a faint hint of smoke-like flavor, but beyond the slightly lighter mineral it tastes something like aged bamboo might.  It's not exactly woody, but pretty close to that.  Sweetness is decent; it gives it balance.  There's just a hint of sourness at the finish, which doesn't ruin the effect for me, but I suppose it's not mostly positive.  Going back and tasting the other after this, the same first round, a bit more root spice stands out in that in contrast, towards root beer, or sassafras.  

I'm not sure why but I'm feeling these teas after the first round.  I took a week of drinking a lot less during a 5 day fast, and never really increased back to my earlier level in the week after, so my caffeine tolerance may be low.

the leaf and liquid color difference is noticeable

8281 #2:  these brewed for about 15 seconds, or maybe slightly over, which is a fairly long infusion for a high proportion and strong teas like these.

It's interesting how heavy and strong this flavor profile is, with it being clean at the same time.  This might turn into pretty good tea with another half a dozen years to finish the full fermentation transition process, which is really far along now, maybe equivalent to over 30 years in cooler and drier storage.

Heavy flavors could either be seen as a selling point or a negative, depending on preference.  Quite heavy mineral tone stands out.  It's strong enough that you need to "taste past it" to identify the rest.  One part of the remaining flavor is like a cured tree bark tone (so woody in a completely different sense than the other tea).  Spice range is still present; it links with that, or overlaps, some range of root spice.  Less of the more forward, bright, dry pine note is present, but it's still there, just in a different balance.  Other complexity probably still does relate to medicinal herb range, ginseng and such, but it's all hard to place, integrating with or being overshadowed by the rest.

8891:  complexity is good in this; there's a good bit going on (which is all relative, of course).  And the tone is lighter, which works well.  That hint of sourness at the end is a little more pervasive now.  I don't necessarily see it as a flaw, but if it was swapped out for something else the tea could be much more exceptional.  It seems to connect with a dryness that you feel in the center of your tongue as you drink it, and more just after you swallow.  

I remember this as a heavier and rougher edged tea.  It has mellowed.  The heaviness of flavor tones fading could easily relate to my judgment changing, or my general perspective.  Tasting any tea in combination with another also shifts things; that becomes a fixed baseline, adding a bias for what is a heavy level of any one input, or placing different aspects differently in comparison.

At this point I like the 8281 better, but this early sourness and dryness may be something that evolves out of this version over a few infusions, so it seems too early for that kind of judgment.  I should mention here that some claim that dry storage is "bad" for a tea, not for just slowing down transition pace, but also for imparting a slight sour note to teas.  I never really knew if that holds up, oddly, even though I've tried a good bit of dry stored pu'er.  Storage that is too wet (humid) is said to impart either a mustiness or overly heavy tones to a tea, or maybe both.  Then people talking about relative optimums tends to make for a complicated subject.

8281 #3:  brewing this faster, at 10 seconds, and being a couple of infusions in really lets this tea shine.  The flavor aspects I've been talking about (pine, heavy mineral tones, limited root spice, other medicinal spice) haven't changed, but the balance does shift completely.  Feel is still good, and pleasant aftertaste carries over.  Sweetness level is nice.  It works.  Brewed a bit stronger it probably wouldn't; this tea is pretty intense.

8891:  this also balances the best it has yet.  The bamboo woodiness seems to evolve to more of a sandalwood spice.  That one light sour range aspect is fading, or maybe a lighter infusion makes it seem to drop, but it's still present.  Feel is better.  

It's interesting tasting these and "looking for" the standard descriptors people often apply.  Do they taste nothing like betel nut (which could only be a guess on my part, not having tried that), or camphor?  Maybe the first (8281) does taste like betel nut, and the second like camphor.  Probably that second attribution is more grounded; there is an edge to this tea that kind of matches that.  The first seems to emphasize that light spice range all the more in comparison.

8281 #4:  I'm getting rocked by these teas.  Colors and color definition seems more vivid; it's affecting my vision.  Why didn't I put less tea in these gaiwans?  It's like a mental block, as if I can't.

This tea is really catchy, the way that a root spice stands out, with so much more going on beyond that.  Sweetness picks up, so the rootbeer like tone leans a little towards a dried fruit note input, but it's still really a sweeter range of spice input.

If flavors were a little heavier it would be too much, but for me that part is fine.  It's really clean, supported by great sweetness, rich feel, good balance, and pleasant aftertaste.  Maybe it would've been even better if it had been stored in a slightly cooler and drier place, and aged for 30 years instead of 19.  A decade of extra wait is a significant trade-off; you can't just move yourself through time to experience that.

8891:  that early sourness is losing its place in this tea, for the best.  It lacks some of smoothness and root spice complexity of the other, but a different form of lighter sandalwood sort of range spice is nice in this.  A light camphor edge has seemed to replace the sourness, definitely an improvement.  It might be even better after 4 more rounds, but it would be pushing it to drink just one more.  Let's go there; let's push it.

8281, #5:  I'm giving these more like 20 seconds to see them from a different perspective.  Heavier tones pick back up again; it's interesting how infusion strength varies perceived character like that.  And it's also handy, to be able to shift what you experience so easily.  It was better a little lighter.  That heavy mineral starts to come across almost like a charred tone, where is was part of a less prominent background context, less strong than the root spice, last round.

It's still not bad, not flawed, or too far out of balance, but it's better brewed lighter.

8891:  this version balances just fine brewed a little stronger.  The sourness didn't return; that did evolve out over early infusions, as I guessed might happen.  It might be slightly better than last round for being a little stronger.  It balances well.  One might expect the camphor effect to pick up, brewed stronger, but it's kind of the same, the flavors are just a little more intense, and the feel.  The other is smoother and richer, with this retaining a little dryness, just not in the same form as over the first few rounds, not as pronounced.  

If you drink the other right after this, while the aftertaste is still present, the contrast in it tasting so much more like spice really stands out.  Tried the other way that dryness stands out most in this, tasted right after the other.  It's not all that challenging or negative when you just drink this 8891, but in comparison it's more negative.  

Conclusions:

I tried a couple more rounds later and there wasn't more story to tell based on that.  Of course they didn't fade out and die within the first seven infusions.

I suppose that I like the 8281 more.  Could it be because it's more fermented, further along in aging transition?  Hard to say; that's not impossible.  The 8891 is lighter, smoother, and more balanced than I remember.  I may not have tried this for years.

Both are pretty decent.  I don't think these are what the Teas We Like curator vendor are probably looking for as the absolute best examples of aged sheng potential, but they're decent, and solid.  It doesn't help that I very rarely drink 20 year old range tea at this point; I mostly drink young sheng, within 3 or 4 years of being produced.  It's completely different in character.  It's interesting completing a 1500 word tea review without mentioning bitterness, for example.

What was missing, if these were reasonably well balanced, with pleasant flavor range, and not really expressing clear flaws, but I'm judging them to be good but not great?  Complexity was decent, and balance ok, but they both could've had a little more to offer.  That root spice range in the 8281 could've been more pronounced and spanned more interesting scope.  The 8891 had issues with dryness and light sourness early on, and then later evolved to be more pleasant, but it still mostly covered spice that wasn't so far removed from wood.  I think both will probably be better as 25 year old teas, that having plenty of intensity at this age is a good sign, so both have room to change positively, if only a little.  This 8891 might be fully age-transitioned at 30 years old, as this is going.

I hadn't planned to buy a cake of this but now I might.  As I mentioned I tried it once before, visiting that Chinatown shop, during a fast, on the first of 5 days off eating.  I didn't like it as much as this time.  It helps slowing things down and spending time with a tea, and brewing according to your own preference.  It helps having eaten.  Your sense of taste changes a lot more after 3 or 4 days of fasting, and you can smell the neighbors cooking dinner really far away, but just skipping breakfast changes things, a little.

This tea--the 8281--might be even better with a few more years to complete a transition, or a half dozen.  The 8891 is also much better than it was something like a half dozen years ago when I tried it last (maybe 3 or 4?  I lose track).  These are definitely not fading to not include much flavor intensity.  

To me this range, standard CNNP character, is one of three good examples of favorable and distinctive factory tea production, along with Dayi and Xiaguan.  Maybe people would typically prefer one of those over the others?  I really do like best-case outcome Xiaguan versions.  Or even the barnyard character of well-transitioned more standard range.  Many of their teas come across as rough-edged and basic but that flavor range is interesting.

there is a second cat over on the other side of the fence

Malaysian stored 2003 and 2018 Liu Bao comparison

Hilltown Jin Hua version left, in all photos

I'm trying two more Liu Bao from a Malaysian vendor, Legend of Tea.  The last experience with another Liu Bao version was great, one of the best versions I've tried.  I would expect more of the same, that these will be really nice.  They're this:

Jin Hua Liu Bao (2018, $16 for 100 grams)

Jinhua Liu Bao tea features small golden particles on the surface of the tea leaves, known as "Jinhua (golden flowers)." These golden flowers are a hallmark of high-quality Liu Bao tea. Their presence indicates beneficial microbial activity during the tea's aging process. The enzymes secreted by these microbes accelerate the transformation of substances in the tea, enhancing its flavour and enriching it with health-benefiting compounds. Jinhua has antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties, boosts immunity, and promotes cardiovascular health.

Jinhua Liu Bao tea has black-brown, tightly rolled leaves. The brewed tea is a rich, bright red colour, with a mellow, sweet taste and a pure aroma that combines floral and aged notes. The tea leaves are uniformly soft and moist, showing vitality and a deep, vibrant colour.

Aged Bing Lang Xiang 032 Liu Bao (from 2003; the page doesn't have a 100 gram option, so it's $63.40 for 250 grams, $25 for 100 grams when sold at that higher volume pricing)

Aged Bing Lang Xiang 032 is made using the traditional "double steamed, double pressed" method and aged for years in a clean cellar, resulting in its unique betel nut flavour. Its vibrant blackish brown colour tea leaves are plump, even and supple. The radiant dark red tea liquor envelopes a rich "chenyun" taste, along with a delightful interplay of thickness, strength, and sweetness that lingers long after each sip.

It is a harmonious blend, where the betelnut aroma is enticing, while the smooth, fresh sweetness fills your moth. The enchanting aftertaste, refreshingly enduring, will leave you yearning for another blissful moment with this extraordinary Liubao tea.

I can never do much with flagging a betel nut flavor / aroma (what Bing Lang translates to, with Xiang meaning flavor or aroma), because I'm not familiar with that.  I also can't place the "double steamed, double pressed" processing method.

It's interesting hearing of those differences in relation to the aspect and character differences, described following, which I wrote out prior to reading these descriptions.

Review:

#1, 2018 Jin Hua version:  this is a lot lighter in brewed liquid appearance, for what that's worth.  For tasting these blind I don't know what that means.  It could be a younger tea, or the other may be fermented more during processing (through a wet piling type of step).

This is heavy on mineral.  I'm drinking the first infusion, with no rinse, or at least the review starts there.  More people would rinse Liu Bao than wouldn't, I think, at least in "Western tea circles."  The review would just start at infusion two, in such a case.  

The mineral is that slate mineral that's common in Liu Bao.  The other flavor range is also present, some pine, sweetness that could emerge as dried fruit later, and medicinal root sort of flavor, ginseng.  It's pretty clean, but I think mineral range will probably drop back from here, and the rest will balance better.  That's the equivalent of sheng pu'er being more approachable after the first round or two, just related to different aspects.

I may be picking up more preference for Liu Bao, from these tastings.  It helps that lots of these have been exceptional versions (although I'm on the 4th and 5th from two different vendors, so it's not that much of them).  I've been drinking Fu hei cha style teas as well.

#2, 2003 Bing Lang Xiang:  so different!  The flavor is much warmer and heavier, not a complete surprise given the color difference.  So is this a much older tea version, or is it fermented more by processing?  It could be both.  It would be surprising if additional processing fermentation wasn't an input, but with 25 to 30 years of aging maybe Liu Bao could shift to heavier, warmer tones.  Or maybe 20, in Malaysia, in a naturally hot and humid environment.  Like here, in Bangkok; it's 30 C / 90 F in the rainy season now.

This tea is complex as well; I'll add more of a flavor list next round.

still a lot of brewed tea color difference, even with both brewed quickly

#1 (2018), second infusion:  even more complex.  Heavier slate mineral is still present, but the drier side of that softened and deepened, and the rest balances better.  This is really nice.  It balances the standard complex flavor range (mineral, pine, ginseng, some dried fruit).  Warm, heavy tones are pleasant.  It doesn't remind me of shou pu'er range, not that earthy and heavy, but it's a little towards that, along the line of fallen timber, which would smell like curing tree bark.  [later edit:  I missed betel nut.  Maybe it tasted a lot like that, I wouldn't really know.]

Sweetness is good, feel is nice and thick, and aftertaste is pronounced.  This might evolve a little for one more round, to balance even better, but it's already there now.  Slate mineral might be a bit much for someone not on that page, but to me it's pretty much as it should be.

#2, (2003):  that changed even more; the list from last round and this one might be slightly different.  A little char emerges, like charcoal.  That wasn't present last round, that I noticed.  A heavy, inky mineral flavor range picked up as well, only partly related to that.  Sweetness is good, balancing that.  Pine is part of the flavor range, and maybe a little ginseng, it's just not as pronounced as in the other version.  Rich feel is nice, and flavor depth.

#1, third infusion:  an aspect towards smoke or char is picking up in this; that's interesting.  I really would have expected that to be present earlier on, if it was going to show up.  It's on even ground, the same intensity, as that other range that had been present.  It links nicely with the slate mineral, and being supported or balanced by the ginseng / herb and limited fruit range is nice.

#2:  not changing so much.  These are actually much closer in character than they've been, related to the shift in the other version.  This is smoother and deeper, not matching as much slate mineral as the other expresses.  The rest kind of comes together.

#1, fourth infusion:  this will probably be it for notes, since per usual I have other things to get to.  That mineral note is all the stronger; interesting.  It's moving off charcoal, onto being complex, again with plenty of slate.  If someone was averse to this general range they might see this as tasting like a cigarette butt, but for me it's more slate mineral with some charcoal.  

#2:  a new catchy aspect entered in.  Like root beer?  It might also relate to fruit, but to me that new range is centered on root spice more instead.  These both might have a couple of interesting infusions to go.  But I really need to suspend this tasting for now, and I'm not great at picking it all back up in a later second session.  

My wife will go back to Honolulu before too long and I need to go do some clothes shopping for the kids, to fulfill some orders they've placed (for extra pants, and at least one more bucket hat for Kalani).

Conclusions:

I did try more rounds of these, just without taking notes.  They were more similar than they'd been for the first few rounds, maybe with a little more richness, depth, and complexity in the second version.  But they were similar enough that I think people not really dialed in to specific preferences related to Liu Bao might see them as in the same general range.

Considering how I place them later, in reference to my own preferences, earlier on I would've strongly preferred the second version.  It seemed richer, with more complexity and depth, and was going through some interesting transition in later rounds.  But I've come to be able to appreciate what I take to be standard Liu Bao range more.  

The first version is "only" 7 years old, with aging and transition perhaps speeded up a bit by contact with golden flowers (jinhua fungus, which sometimes goes by a scientific name in Western based tea descriptions,  Eurotium Cristatum).  Maybe I'm more open to this style related to recently trying versions of hei cha exposed to this from a different vendor source, Oriental Leaf, in the latest examples as two kind of unusual hybrid hei cha forms.  

This first version did express a slightly more challenging form initially, with heavier slate mineral dominating the flavor profile, but it softened a few rounds in, gaining complexity and better balance.  The second was rich and deep in warm mineral and other flavors from the start, just transitioning to other aspect scope after those few rounds instead.

I suppose I did like the second version more, but there wasn't that much difference.  If value was a main factor buying a good bit of first would lead to a similar positive experience.  But then again that extra depth was nice.  I'm not sure about "will leave you yearning for another blissful moment with this extraordinary Liubao tea" but it did seem to highlight what is most pleasant about higher quality Liu Bao, in versions that are better than one might normally run across.  It's probably also the case that if you buy 22 year old Liu Bao that's been stored in Kunming it would need another decade to fermentation transition to this level.

Not intending to "pick on" Yunnan Sourcing, probably the main Western vendor outlet for pu'er and hei cha, but let's check on the version in the top of their Liu Bao listings that is closest to this in age:

2002 Aged Wild Liu Bao Tea "803" from Guangxi ($69 for 250 grams)

Small artisan produced Wild Liu Bao grown in a remote part of Wuzhou County in Guangxi Province. Expertly processed and then stored for almost 15 years in Guangxi. This tea has been re-packed 500 grams per bamboo basket. The basket is numbered 803.

The tea itself has some camphor, vanilla, and betel notes. The large leaf with stems makes for an interesting and unique aged Liu Bao experience. Highly recommended for those who want to try something aged and unique.

That costs $5.60 cents more, is one year older, and probably hasn't fermentation transitioned as much (given the storage location difference), although spending 15 of those years in slightly more humid Guangxi would help keep it from being as "well preserved."  

it's hard to place the color differences, large leaves, and stem content in the YS version

these leaves are darker (probably good), and more chopped (maybe not as positive)

It could be not nearly as good as these, or perhaps even better; you can't really tell from vendor descriptions, or even customer comments.  Most Yunnan Sourcing comments were about people loving that version, with one guy saying "Good, I drank better but this is quality good."  Per lots of hearsay input Yunnan Sourcing would almost certainly remove any negative comments or low ratings on that site, so it's hard to place what may have been commented but isn't there now.  

I take all this to mean that 20+ year old, exceptional quality options are out there, and $60+ for 250 grams could be a standard market range.  It would be interesting to see how they compare directly.  This "Hilltown" version is among the best Liu Bao I've ever tried, a full quality level beyond what I've tried in the past, other than those two recent versions.  But who knows what that means; maybe I've only tried ordinary versions before that.  I've tried a few from Yunnan Sourcing in the past, probably reviewed 8 or so years ago now, but I probably bought more mid-range, value oriented versions, and of course I can't clearly compare across that kind of time-span.  

Those teas more or less led to me not exploring Liu Bao much more (although I've drank a half a kilogram since, since a friend in Malaysia sent me a good bit of it), but I think for some tea types it takes a critical mass of exploration to really "get it."  I drank sheng pu'er on and off for years before taking it up as a favorite type.  Fu zhuan / Fu brick hei cha I liked more right away, but it can be pleasant and approachable while giving up some complexity, depth, and refinement to teas like these two.  And it seems to help to sort through versions for that, to try a few to get to styles that work best for you.  Once you do experience value in relation to cost can be really positive.

I plan to retry a couple of Fu hei cha style versions from Legend of Tea, essentially the same that I've tried before.  It should be interesting placing them again after all of this recent--in the past 3 months--exposure to varying hei cha versions.

ITea World Dan Cong and Tie Guan Yin oolongs

 

Greetings!  It's been awhile.  My kids spent winter school break here in Bangkok, visiting back from Honolulu, so I took a couple of weeks off this blog, and most of the internet in general.  I should probably never return to the same level of use, but this isn't about the digital detox theme.

I had tried tea versions from ITea World before, samples sent from a new mainstream Chinese vendor for review, in 2023.  They were pretty good; kind of medium quality level, but for being moderate cost versions the value and experience in relation to expectations was fine.  They asked if I wanted to try more, better versions of oolongs this time, and it's always interesting revisiting such themes.  I drink a lot more sheng pu'er than anything else now, but it's interesting checking in with types I've focused more on in the past.

In this review I tried to sort out just how good the versions are.  Better than the last ones, unless I've got that all wrong, this time more upper medium quality, or at the lower end of the highest quality range.  It probably gets tiresome hearing that spelled out in detail, but it does also pass on my take on what differentiates really good tea versions from medium or slightly above average versions, so covering finer points at length serves two different purposes.  

I don't lean into the theme of "quality markers" too much here, something I've not ran across used in exactly the same way I've developed it, but surely a theme that's not unheard of.  Some specific aspects identify what is most desirable in some tea versions; that's it.  For this it's enough to specify what stands out as most positive and what represents limitations in these versions.

They're not listed on the website, except in the sampler version they sent me.  The versions are from different harvests than the earlier oolongs offerings, or else they seem the same, of the same types.  I've not discussed how these are better with the vendor, in any detail.

The set sells for $40 for a 100 gram set of samples, all 5 grams each (so there must be 20--yep, I just counted them), so only that price point will serve as a cost baseline.  40 cents a gram for pretty good oolong is not so bad, as a starting point.  For baseline reference I can buy really good versions of it in the Bangkok Chinatown for $30 for 100 grams, but you would almost have to live in China to have access to the same or better degree of options as there, to be able to buy good versions at low cost.  Cost of teas tend to vary some by type, with some higher in demand, and the Dan Cong in this set may be the kind of version that sells for a good bit more than Tie Guan Yin or Shui Xian (for example).  

What about comparison with online sales options though?  That gets complicated, because online vendors set price points in a broad range of ways, which vary by the value they buy tea at, and their markup, all adjusted quite a bit for their costs, the volume they sell, and what works out well for profit for them.  There is no standard range of norms, really; it varies.  In this I talk as if there is, estimating what comparable quality versions to these would tend to sell for online.  That can be hard to estimate based on product descriptions, because essentially every vendor exaggerates quality levels, describing their own teas in glowing, positive terms, as they kind of should, since a sales function just doesn't couple well with excessive humility about experienced aspects and quality level.

Let's push that consideration a little further, then cite their description, then get on with review notes.  This is a medium quality (or at least medium range price) Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong from Yunnan Sourcing, not the obvious place to buy teas from provinces outside of Yunnan, but a standard option, selling for $17.50 per 30 grams (so $58 per 100 grams), with their highest quality / cost offering selling for a lot more, more than double that:

This is a lovely middle mountain (中山) elevation Mi Lan Xiang (蜜兰香) from Da An village, grown at an altitude of roughly 900 meters from decades old tea bushes growing wild.

Strong and thick tea, golden yellow tea soup, powerful honey and orchid aroma.  Perfect balance of sweet, bitter and umami with a long lasting mouth-feeling.  Cha Qi is powerful and clean.

This is a high quality Mi Lang Xiang that will surely please even the most discerning Dan Cong connoisseurs!

It sounds good.  One point here in citing that is that tea descriptions should focus on the positive, and another is to spell out a type-typical range:  including floral range, good balance, good mouthfeel, and intensity.  Bitterness and umami not so much; I'm not sure what that's all about.  Sheng is bitter, and umami is found in Japanese green teas, or maybe Mao Feng Chinese green tea, but typically not Dan Cong.  Maybe this Yunnan Sourcing version is better than the one I've already wrote notes for, or maybe it's not as good; you can't tell from a description.

This version from Wuyi Origin, a very, very well regarded direct sales producer site, lists for $60 per 100 grams; it's almost certainly significantly better.  But it's not really fair, comparing tea from a mainstream resale outlet--what both ITea World and Yunnan Sourcing are--with the relative best quality and value source for this oolong in China that I'm aware of.  

This kind of oolong sampler is for a different kind of customer, someone wanting to explore better oolongs than you typically ever find in broad-type online outlets or any local tea shops.  From there people might eventually go on to seek out what pushes on towards being as good as any versions typically get.  The Wuyi Origin cost isn't that much higher but moving on to spend $200 on a tea order isn't for everyone; I personally try to avoid that.  300 grams of the tea I mentioned gets you pretty close, and if "free" shipping isn't built into their pricing you're there.

Let's check that ITea World listing:

Again that's listed for $40 ($39.99) for 100 grams of those samples, packaged in 5 gram samples.  That site shows free shipping kicking in at $39.98, so in theory you could just buy this set.  That would be amazing self-discipline, ordering $40 of tea from a China-based vendor, but you could.

It does say a little more about specific local harvest area, growing elevation, and oxidation level on that page, but it seems as well to get on with describing the teas.  Elevation does matter, and plant age (supposedly over 100 years old for the Dan Cong), but it's as well to go by final outcome, the experienced aspects, and you need to try the tea to determine that.  Or hear from someone you trust on that, I guess, but then even given that kind of input verbal descriptions only go so far.

Review:

Dan Cong:  it's good.  As so often tends to happen this first round is a little light, and therefore harder to really judge, but this is quite nice.  The oxidation input and roast balance is very medium, just as it should be to get to a very positive outcome for this type, complementing the floral range very well.  I'll fill in the standard list of aspects and finer quality level assessment the next time, but this is probably as far up the quality scale as it should be for what I'm expecting of it, fairly far along.  Style is zeroed in, especially roast level, I think; not pretty good but right there.  

This probably is Mi Lan Xiang again, and again it's odd that the package doesn't say that, as with the first version that I reviewed.  I'll cite a website listing after making review notes, and that may fill in this detail (it seems to not; a little odd, really even something that could be taken as a red flag, but again experienced aspects and quality are what matter most, as I see it).  I'm brewing 5 grams, the package amount, which really should be relatively ideal, but I tend to use about 8 grams normally, so I'll have to make an adjustment.

Tie Guan Yin:  the same; this will be easier to evaluate next round, once it has opened up and is more intense.  I think this is better than their last version too, in the range better versions fall into.  Not for traditional style more oxidized and roasted tea versions; this is still the bright green kind.  Markers for quality level include very sweet floral input, ranging into an odd taste sensation form, which I'll describe further next round, almost oddly strong, with a somewhat thick, full feel seeming to emerge.  

I really won't be able to make out the feel brewed lightly and not really opened up but the flavor is fine.  It might include a very light off trace, drifting every so slightly into new car smell range, but that may just be an early round anomaly that drops out right away.

Dan Cong, #2:  brewed much stronger, really a bit excessive, for trying to err on the side of definitely getting this strong enough.  

Feel structure really ramped up as a result, and heavier, earthier flavors.  That's actually better for evaluating feel, but flavor experience isn't optimum like that.  It doesn't include a common harsh astringency edge some Dan Cong does, or many do.  People can make the mistake of thinking that's actually type-typical, when it's my impression that it's really not, that it's common but not a marker of correct style and aspect range.  

People also tend to get astringency and bitterness mixed up, which I find odd.  It doesn't take that much exposure to tea aspects to see them as completely different things, which just happen to sometimes occur together, or maybe they come up together often.  Bitterness is a flavor aspect; that's what aspirin tastes like.  Astringency relates to feel; it's the roughness of texture that occurs in a range of tea types, especially in very chopped or ground up black tea.  Black teas are essentially never bitter (although there would always be exceptions), so if you think your tea-bag tea is bitter you might want to give this some thought.  Taste an aspirin, which is bitter (and also causes an astringency sensation; that's confusing), and see if the flavor part is common to what it experienced in chopped material black tea.  Here I'm claiming that the feel is comparable but not the taste.

At a guess lower elevation, younger plants grown using a lot of fertilizer tends to be very intense, including that strong feel edge (astringency), and older plant, higher grown, less chemical-stressed plants include fantastic flavor and feel character but they're not as intense, at least not in the same ways.  Floral flavor and sweetness can be very pronounced, but a harsh feel edge often isn't (the astringency).  If both flavor and feel are intense in a Dan Cong version it works better to use really short infusion times and hot water to optimize the experience, more so than cutting the brewing temperature, which works, but in a different way.  Don't take my word for that, try it and see what you think.

This would be easier to place if I'd been drinking more Dan Cong over the last few years.  I think it's pretty good, in a well above average quality range, but finer differences mark the highest levels from there.  Different vendors sell what are described as the best of the best range, hyping tea plant age claims, using elaborate descriptions of refined, diverse, and unique feel and flavor experience, but it can be hard to separate hype from likely accurate description.  Only with tasting does one arrive at any subjective impression of that, but online discussion inputs about this or that vendor selling the most optimum versions contradict each other.  As I suppose they should; different versions would vary quite a bit, maybe even as sold by the same vendor, and preferences would vary.

To distill this to a flavor list a perfume-like floral sweetness dominates the experience, along with warm tones surely drawn out through extra oxidation and roast input.  The two ranges really balance.  Warm mineral tone ramps up right at the end of the experience, leading into a sweet aftertaste experience including all of that range.

Even though it's all very positive, about as pleasant, refined, intense, complex, and balanced as it probably would be, for higher volume, diverse type outlet sales, it's my impression that dialing up all of those just a touch is still possible.  Feel thickness is more moderate; there is room for more change in that, and aftertaste intensity is also positive but not at the high end of that range of potential.  It all seems like splitting hairs, but that's how evaluating quality for above average quality versions go.  

At a rough guess this should retail for 50 to 60 cents a gram but not more (or it could sell for less; it's hard to pin down what the best value, quite good quality range versions out there are like).  The 70 or 80 cent per gram range is something else, or $1 or over.  Or maybe that's being a little harsh; this is quite good, and Dan Cong seems to reach $1 per gram quickly enough for a generally good quality range, and this is that.  It certainly doesn't taste like a medium quality tin-packaged version, although the best of those, the atypical examples, fall fairly close, or could be this good.  We'll see how their pricing places it [that never did become clear, because all together sell for 40 cents per gram].

Tie Guan Yin:  I have mixed feelings about this quality assessment too.  If I was evaluating this as either inexpensive, medium range, or higher quality Tie Guan Yin it would easily surpass that first level, and fall either in the higher end of the second or lower end of the third.  Sweetness is good, floral range is pleasant, and dominant, and it contains a catchy towards-plastic aspect that I'm interpreting as generally positive, even though per that description it wouldn't sound it, and someone might really hate that, or else could like it.  Then feel is a bit thin, aftertaste is limited, and intensity and the balance / complexity part isn't bad but not in the highest range.  

Evaluating this against all TGY it's quite good; trying to match it with the highest quality end of the range gives the opposite results, and gaps stand out.  As long as pricing is favorable per quality, the value is good, if the idea is to try above average quality TGY this easily provides that experience.  If the intention is for this to compete with the best of the best it doesn't seem to hold up.  

Then one would wonder about pricing, and I'm not really even sure where the high level range for pretty good TGY stands.  For lots of in-demand and more rare tea types, for any Dan Cong version beyond Mi Lan Xiang, the most common one, the best versions are at or above $1 per gram, fairly universally.  That may not hold as true for Tie Guan Yin, although given how demand patterns work out in China, that the best teas are sought out and competed for, maybe it still works, even though TGY is really the main universal oolong type out there, or one of them, sold as a most-common tea type.  Shui Xian fills that role in Fujian / Wuyi Yancha versions, and TGY from Anxi is even more ubiquitous.

I'll try brewing these for more like 20 seconds, to try them lighter.

Dan Cong #3:  forget about that project of placing this in relation to the highest possible quality levels; related to purely subjective experience value this is solid tea, that works well for me.  The way the warmth and deeper tones integrate and balance with the sweet floral range is great.  Sure it's possible to consider if there shouldn't be a bit more thickness of feel (or quite a bit more), or if complexity and intensity couldn't be dialed up just a little, but this still totally works.  Feel is a bit velvety, just not thick.  

Flavors are complex and balanced, just perhaps leaving limited range for improvement.  But it's quite good.  If this sells for under $1 per gram I think it's probably a good value for that, whether or not you could explore and eventually find a slightly better version at the same cost; for quite near, at, or over $1 per gram and they're probably pushing it a bit.

Tie Guan Yin:  this is nice too.  Mind you I'm working around Tie Guan Yin not really being a personal favorite range, so I'm not going to refer back to that subjective preference assessment, beyond quality.  It's good though, and pleasant.  I don't think it matches the Dan Cong version for how good, even though comparing different types brings up problems in equivalence.  For this style of oolong, lighter rolled versions, thickness of feel is all the more critical, and this seems just a trace thinner than the other, not better in relation to just that aspect.  Sweetness is good, and floral range is fine, but that one slightly off taste aspect trace, which I find to be both catchy and also slightly negative, even though that's odd, a plastic sort of taste, also throws off highest level quality assessment.  

Again if the point is for it to be quite good it's there, well above average, but within the top third of the quality range potential it's near that bottom of the top.  If this is 40 to 50 cents a gram, selling as a next level breakfast tea, that's fair, again even if somewhere else on the internet better tea sells for less.  For anywhere near $1 a gram, or even 60 to 80 cents, it's just too much for what this is.  

For me personally I'd not drink much really light style rolled oolong at all, but I should clarify that I was really on that page very early in my tea exploration, and I would have loved this back then.  Preferences naturally evolve over time, and this is better as a place to start, or explore in early rounds.  

I don't think this holds its own with the higher quality level range from Taiwan, but then a lot of oolong versions from there marketed as such would be generally equivalent, but not better; almost anything selling through high volume mainstream outlets probably would be.  Specialty vendors known for selling only the best range of Taiwanese oolongs would only sell better quality versions than this, but the cost for those would tend to be double or triple what you would buy pretty good Anxi Tie Guan Yin for.

Dan Cong #4:  floral range might develop a bit, picking up more intensity.  That's a good sign; this might continue to evolve positively.  I'm not going to write more notes though; I don't have time to spare for that.  If I remember to I'll add a comment from memory later on how that worked out.

Tie Guan Yin:  this is good, it's just not great.  It's very pleasant, and all the aspects are generally where they should be, just not at the optimum level for many.   Sweetness, freshness, floral range, mineral range adding depth, aftertaste follow-through are all positive, although aftertaste intensity is limited.  Feel gives up a good bit.  For people not experienced in evaluating higher quality versions that wouldn't stand out at all, since you tend to explore and appreciate flavor first.  This is pleasant, likeable.  It will be interesting seeing the cost and the website description, matching both versions up against those.

Later rounds:  these held up fine for a couple of more infusions but then died a bit quickly, which I guess also related to using a lower proportion than I usually do, and longer infusion times.

Conclusions:

These are better than I remember the 2023 ITea World versions being.  Again they're good value, good quality in relation to the selling price, maybe best described as the highest level of upper medium quality range versus the low end of the highest quality scope.  As I'd mentioned for people newer to tea experience what I'm experiencing as significant gaps may not be all that noticeable at all; early on people typically haven't learned to evaluate or value thickness of feel and aftertaste experience.  Related to only flavor they're much better, than when you include review of those aspect expectations.

I liked the Dan Cong a lot more.  I like Dan Cong more than Tie Guan Yin in general, but them getting the oxidation level and roast dialed in made a big difference, and I've not mentioned aspects that stand out as flaws because there weren't any, beyond what could've been more pronounced, feel, complexity, and such.  Flavor range was pretty good for that.  

I am pretty sure it's Mi Lan Xiang, the most common Dan Cong type, for what that's worth.  There is room for improvement in the flavor complexity, intensity, balance, and refinement but all that is fairly positive.  I say that, but if you try this version side by side with a much higher quality version the difference would seem striking.  If you aren't experienced at evaluating teas if you tried both 3 or 4 weeks apart it might be much harder to notice it; it's funny how that works.  It could've been a couple years since I've tried any Dan Cong; after awhile the whole range just becomes familiar, with enough exposure, drinking dozens of versions over many years.

The Tie Guan Yin is pretty decent Tie Guan Yin; I suppose that's good enough.  If you would taste it side by side along with anything from a specialty grocery store this version would seem fantastic in comparison.  Then trying it along with standard $1-$1.50 per gram Taiwanese rolled oolong it would seem to fall way short; it's funny how that works out.

I can respect what ITea World is doing with these teas, making above average versions available at fair pricing.  This is perfect for someone new to exploring oolongs.  Even if someone had been dabbling in trying them for awhile, but wasn't clear on their baseline quality expectations, these could be pleasant and helpful.  Even if the best of all the other versions someone had already tried had been slightly better it would still help place that range.  For people way past both exploration levels maybe trying these wouldn't make any sense, although I guess they could still work as a gift, for someone just getting started.

It's a little bizarre related to my own personal use but these come with a set of tea bag sleeves you can put them in; you can convert this loose tea to bag versions, just using what they've provided.  For a loose tea enthusiast you'd end up considering how else you might use those, since it wouldn't make sense to put this oolong in them to brew it (any other devices you already have around would work better).  

Some people keep sheng pu'er cake dust and small bits aside in a separate jar and brew only that from time to time; those bags might be perfect for that, to take a blend of extra scraps of cakes to the office to drink there.  Or it all works even better together as a gift, in case someone absolutely couldn't figure out how to brew loose tea.  For a non-tea drinker that's less unlikely and absurd; there is a learning curve to go through, and having some related gear definitely helps.  If you took only this sample set to a hotel you'd be set for having some decent tea every day for three weeks; not bad.  Drinking tea only from tea bags for three weeks would seem so strange to any tea enthusiast; the point is that it would work.

reunited with the cats (2 of 3 of them)

lots of errands, play outings, and pausing to enjoy the little things

they got some things for Christmas, just not much

family dinner at a hot pot and sushi buffet place