Malaysian stored 2003 and 2018 Liu Bao comparison

Hilltown Jin Hua version left, in all photos

I'm trying two more Liu Bao from a Malaysian vendor, Legend of Tea.  The last experience with another Liu Bao version was great, one of the best versions I've tried.  I would expect more of the same, that these will be really nice.  They're this:

Jin Hua Liu Bao (2018, $16 for 100 grams)

Jinhua Liu Bao tea features small golden particles on the surface of the tea leaves, known as "Jinhua (golden flowers)." These golden flowers are a hallmark of high-quality Liu Bao tea. Their presence indicates beneficial microbial activity during the tea's aging process. The enzymes secreted by these microbes accelerate the transformation of substances in the tea, enhancing its flavour and enriching it with health-benefiting compounds. Jinhua has antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties, boosts immunity, and promotes cardiovascular health.

Jinhua Liu Bao tea has black-brown, tightly rolled leaves. The brewed tea is a rich, bright red colour, with a mellow, sweet taste and a pure aroma that combines floral and aged notes. The tea leaves are uniformly soft and moist, showing vitality and a deep, vibrant colour.

Aged Bing Lang Xiang 032 Liu Bao (from 2003; the page doesn't have a 100 gram option, so it's $63.40 for 250 grams, $25 for 100 grams when sold at that higher volume pricing)

Aged Bing Lang Xiang 032 is made using the traditional "double steamed, double pressed" method and aged for years in a clean cellar, resulting in its unique betel nut flavour. Its vibrant blackish brown colour tea leaves are plump, even and supple. The radiant dark red tea liquor envelopes a rich "chenyun" taste, along with a delightful interplay of thickness, strength, and sweetness that lingers long after each sip.

It is a harmonious blend, where the betelnut aroma is enticing, while the smooth, fresh sweetness fills your moth. The enchanting aftertaste, refreshingly enduring, will leave you yearning for another blissful moment with this extraordinary Liubao tea.

I can never do much with flagging a betel nut flavor / aroma (what Bing Lang translates to, with Xiang meaning flavor or aroma), because I'm not familiar with that.  I also can't place the "double steamed, double pressed" processing method.

It's interesting hearing of those differences in relation to the aspect and character differences, described following, which I wrote out prior to reading these descriptions.

Review:

#1, 2018 Jin Hua version:  this is a lot lighter in brewed liquid appearance, for what that's worth.  For tasting these blind I don't know what that means.  It could be a younger tea, or the other may be fermented more during processing (through a wet piling type of step).

This is heavy on mineral.  I'm drinking the first infusion, with no rinse, or at least the review starts there.  More people would rinse Liu Bao than wouldn't, I think, at least in "Western tea circles."  The review would just start at infusion two, in such a case.  

The mineral is that slate mineral that's common in Liu Bao.  The other flavor range is also present, some pine, sweetness that could emerge as dried fruit later, and medicinal root sort of flavor, ginseng.  It's pretty clean, but I think mineral range will probably drop back from here, and the rest will balance better.  That's the equivalent of sheng pu'er being more approachable after the first round or two, just related to different aspects.

I may be picking up more preference for Liu Bao, from these tastings.  It helps that lots of these have been exceptional versions (although I'm on the 4th and 5th from two different vendors, so it's not that much of them).  I've been drinking Fu hei cha style teas as well.

#2, 2003 Bing Lang Xiang:  so different!  The flavor is much warmer and heavier, not a complete surprise given the color difference.  So is this a much older tea version, or is it fermented more by processing?  It could be both.  It would be surprising if additional processing fermentation wasn't an input, but with 25 to 30 years of aging maybe Liu Bao could shift to heavier, warmer tones.  Or maybe 20, in Malaysia, in a naturally hot and humid environment.  Like here, in Bangkok; it's 30 C / 90 F in the rainy season now.

This tea is complex as well; I'll add more of a flavor list next round.

still a lot of brewed tea color difference, even with both brewed quickly

#1 (2018), second infusion:  even more complex.  Heavier slate mineral is still present, but the drier side of that softened and deepened, and the rest balances better.  This is really nice.  It balances the standard complex flavor range (mineral, pine, ginseng, some dried fruit).  Warm, heavy tones are pleasant.  It doesn't remind me of shou pu'er range, not that earthy and heavy, but it's a little towards that, along the line of fallen timber, which would smell like curing tree bark.  [later edit:  I missed betel nut.  Maybe it tasted a lot like that, I wouldn't really know.]

Sweetness is good, feel is nice and thick, and aftertaste is pronounced.  This might evolve a little for one more round, to balance even better, but it's already there now.  Slate mineral might be a bit much for someone not on that page, but to me it's pretty much as it should be.

#2, (2003):  that changed even more; the list from last round and this one might be slightly different.  A little char emerges, like charcoal.  That wasn't present last round, that I noticed.  A heavy, inky mineral flavor range picked up as well, only partly related to that.  Sweetness is good, balancing that.  Pine is part of the flavor range, and maybe a little ginseng, it's just not as pronounced as in the other version.  Rich feel is nice, and flavor depth.

#1, third infusion:  an aspect towards smoke or char is picking up in this; that's interesting.  I really would have expected that to be present earlier on, if it was going to show up.  It's on even ground, the same intensity, as that other range that had been present.  It links nicely with the slate mineral, and being supported or balanced by the ginseng / herb and limited fruit range is nice.

#2:  not changing so much.  These are actually much closer in character than they've been, related to the shift in the other version.  This is smoother and deeper, not matching as much slate mineral as the other expresses.  The rest kind of comes together.

#1, fourth infusion:  this will probably be it for notes, since per usual I have other things to get to.  That mineral note is all the stronger; interesting.  It's moving off charcoal, onto being complex, again with plenty of slate.  If someone was averse to this general range they might see this as tasting like a cigarette butt, but for me it's more slate mineral with some charcoal.  

#2:  a new catchy aspect entered in.  Like root beer?  It might also relate to fruit, but to me that new range is centered on root spice more instead.  These both might have a couple of interesting infusions to go.  But I really need to suspend this tasting for now, and I'm not great at picking it all back up in a later second session.  

My wife will go back to Honolulu before too long and I need to go do some clothes shopping for the kids, to fulfill some orders they've placed (for extra pants, and at least one more bucket hat for Kalani).

Conclusions:

I did try more rounds of these, just without taking notes.  They were more similar than they'd been for the first few rounds, maybe with a little more richness, depth, and complexity in the second version.  But they were similar enough that I think people not really dialed in to specific preferences related to Liu Bao might see them as in the same general range.

Considering how I place them later, in reference to my own preferences, earlier on I would've strongly preferred the second version.  It seemed richer, with more complexity and depth, and was going through some interesting transition in later rounds.  But I've come to be able to appreciate what I take to be standard Liu Bao range more.  

The first version is "only" 7 years old, with aging and transition perhaps speeded up a bit by contact with golden flowers (jinhua fungus, which sometimes goes by a scientific name in Western based tea descriptions,  Eurotium Cristatum).  Maybe I'm more open to this style related to recently trying versions of hei cha exposed to this from a different vendor source, Oriental Leaf, in the latest examples as two kind of unusual hybrid hei cha forms.  

This first version did express a slightly more challenging form initially, with heavier slate mineral dominating the flavor profile, but it softened a few rounds in, gaining complexity and better balance.  The second was rich and deep in warm mineral and other flavors from the start, just transitioning to other aspect scope after those few rounds instead.

I suppose I did like the second version more, but there wasn't that much difference.  If value was a main factor buying a good bit of first would lead to a similar positive experience.  But then again that extra depth was nice.  I'm not sure about "will leave you yearning for another blissful moment with this extraordinary Liubao tea" but it did seem to highlight what is most pleasant about higher quality Liu Bao, in versions that are better than one might normally run across.  It's probably also the case that if you buy 22 year old Liu Bao that's been stored in Kunming it would need another decade to fermentation transition to this level.

Not intending to "pick on" Yunnan Sourcing, probably the main Western vendor outlet for pu'er and hei cha, but let's check on the version in the top of their Liu Bao listings that is closest to this in age:

2002 Aged Wild Liu Bao Tea "803" from Guangxi ($69 for 250 grams)

Small artisan produced Wild Liu Bao grown in a remote part of Wuzhou County in Guangxi Province. Expertly processed and then stored for almost 15 years in Guangxi. This tea has been re-packed 500 grams per bamboo basket. The basket is numbered 803.

The tea itself has some camphor, vanilla, and betel notes. The large leaf with stems makes for an interesting and unique aged Liu Bao experience. Highly recommended for those who want to try something aged and unique.

That costs $5.60 cents more, is one year older, and probably hasn't fermentation transitioned as much (given the storage location difference), although spending 15 of those years in slightly more humid Guangxi would help keep it from being as "well preserved."  

it's hard to place the color differences, large leaves, and stem content in the YS version

these leaves are darker (probably good), and more chopped (maybe not as positive)

It could be not nearly as good as these, or perhaps even better; you can't really tell from vendor descriptions, or even customer comments.  Most Yunnan Sourcing comments were about people loving that version, with one guy saying "Good, I drank better but this is quality good."  Per lots of hearsay input Yunnan Sourcing would almost certainly remove any negative comments or low ratings on that site, so it's hard to place what may have been commented but isn't there now.  

I take all this to mean that 20+ year old, exceptional quality options are out there, and $60+ for 250 grams could be a standard market range.  It would be interesting to see how they compare directly.  This "Hilltown" version is among the best Liu Bao I've ever tried, a full quality level beyond what I've tried in the past, other than those two recent versions.  But who knows what that means; maybe I've only tried ordinary versions before that.  I've tried a few from Yunnan Sourcing in the past, probably reviewed 8 or so years ago now, but I probably bought more mid-range, value oriented versions, and of course I can't clearly compare across that kind of time-span.  

Those teas more or less led to me not exploring Liu Bao much more (although I've drank a half a kilogram since, since a friend in Malaysia sent me a good bit of it), but I think for some tea types it takes a critical mass of exploration to really "get it."  I drank sheng pu'er on and off for years before taking it up as a favorite type.  Fu zhuan / Fu brick hei cha I liked more right away, but it can be pleasant and approachable while giving up some complexity, depth, and refinement to teas like these two.  And it seems to help to sort through versions for that, to try a few to get to styles that work best for you.  Once you do experience value in relation to cost can be really positive.

I plan to retry a couple of Fu hei cha style versions from Legend of Tea, essentially the same that I've tried before.  It should be interesting placing them again after all of this recent--in the past 3 months--exposure to varying hei cha versions.

Liu Bao comparison tasting, 2004 and late teens versions

 

LOT 031 version left, in all photos

I'm reviewing two versions of Liu Bao tea, one sent by the Legend of Tea vendor (the main one I'm reviewing), and another from a friend in Malaysia, maybe in 2019 or so.  I may have never reviewed that other version here; that's strange.  In this post I reviewed some other Liu Bao he sent earlier, in 2017, but I think this was from about two years later.

It took some doing figuring out what this version is, because it's labeled in Chinese, and the site doesn't make mapping that back easy.  At first I thought it was this, but it's not:

Hilltown Aged Liu Bao  (2011 product, $2.31 for 10 grams or 74.34 for 450 grams)

Drinking Pu'er and Liu Bao tea is a time-honoured Nanyang Chinese tradition that continues to this day. From the tin mining era, miners have been drinking Liu Bao tea as their daily health elixir. Renowned for four unique qualities "red, rich, aged and mellow", Liu Bao tea had won hearts of those who have tasted its charm.

Hilltown Aged Liu Bao tea leaves are fine and tight in appearance, with a glossy hue of blackish brown. Upon steeping, its liquor is a lustrous deep red, pleasantly mellow and sweet, with a well balanced aroma. The enchanting tea essence lingers long after each sip, and the smooth and enduring mouthfeel makes it a delightful companion for multiple steepings.

Then it seemed like possibly something from this sample set, and it is one of those teas.  The vendor helped fill in that it's really this:

Chun Xiang 031 Liu Bao 10G | 100G | 250G | 1KG ($65 for 250 grams, available as a 10 gram sample for $4.16)

Lovingly matured for 19 years, this tea has mellowed out with a rich and velvety profile. A true testament of its age, its tea liquor is bold deep red accompanied with an enchanting aged aroma upon steeping.  The taste is a harmonious blend of smoothness and depth, leaving a satisfying aftertaste. Over time, the tea's character intensifies, becoming even more full-bodied and mellowly sweet, making it a prized addition to any tea collection.

In this post I was guessing that it was a pre-fermented variation of Liu Bao, similar to shou / shu pu'er, because the fermentation level is so complete.  It being from 2004 explains that fermentation input level, potentially in a different way, or maybe it was processed in a manner similar to shou.  21 years is awhile, especially for teas being stored in Malaysia; it's there.  Then I can't say for sure that it wasn't pre-fermented originally as well; there are different styles of Liu Bao, processed in different ways, per my understanding mapping fairly directly to the sheng and shou (raw and ripe) pu'er types.

There's not much about the other version to serve as a baseline.  I describe what it had been like earlier, but it has changed a lot in a half dozen years.  Here's where it was from:

Who sends an online friend a kilogram of any kind of tea?  That friend, and not very many other people.  Of course I never had any idea how much it cost; you don't ask about gifts like that.

There's more from him in a description of Tie Kuan Yin's origin story (along with a review of two TGY oolongs that he also sent), which is the most background I've even included about him.

The review notes don't make much of the 031 version's leaves being finer, or brewed tea color differing quite a bit, focusing more on the experienced aspects (vision is an experience; I mean flavor and mouthfeel).

Review:

Legend of Tea Liu Bao (2004, it seems, but I wrote review notes without knowing that):  heavy on that distinctive mineral range, which reminds me most of cement block.  Using a rinse for these would have been reasonable, but I didn't (although this was a fast infusion, so it's a rinse if you throw it away, and an early infusion if you don't).  I might just check the flavor and character and skip drinking all of it.  

So far this seems promising.  Early mineral related range is a little rough, but I think that will smooth out quickly.  Feel is already smooth and rich; by rough I mean that it's a little dry, a little far into tasting like cement range.  There is lots of other depth there already there, other sweetness.

This reminds me of seeing a comment about the set (7?) of distinctive Liu Bao flavors awhile back.  I asked Google's AI results what those were, but I'm sure the list isn't exactly the same:

Liu Bao tea boasts a complex flavor profile, often described as earthy and mellow, with prominent notes of betel nut, medicinal herbs, and wood. It can also exhibit hints of honey, jujube, and even a subtle fungal aroma, particularly in aged varieties. (and pine smoke is mentioned in the detailed breakdown after).

I'll do more of a flavor list next round, referring back to that.

comparison version, from a friend in Malaysia:  much different.  It's warmer, missing some of the cement block flavor range, but with plenty of other mineral.  I think this is quite different than when I first tried it a half dozen years ago, mellowed quite a bit.  "Different how" will be easier to describe in the flavor list breakdown next round.

LOT Liu Bao #2:  lots of cement-oriented mineral range still comes across, but it already balances a lot better, with other range stepping forward more.  Probably next round this early transition will be more complete.

It's hard to say if this really does taste like betel nut, medicinal herbs, wood, honey, jujube, fungal aroma, and pine smoke.  It's complex, and most of that seems to work.  There's a decent chance that betel nut is the most pronounced flavor, after that mineral range, but I'm not familiar with that flavor to call it.  There's a little jujube (Chinese date), but it's secondary to a lot of other complexity.  Wood tones stand out more, and pine, maybe pine wood, versus smoke.

It's cleaner than it probably sounds, as that list.  Flavor range is on the deep, warm, and heavy side.  Per my understanding Liu Bao can be relatively pre-fermented (like shou pu'er) or not much at all (more like sheng), and this seems to include that process as a main input [editing note:  unless this is significantly aged, and then distinguishing pre-fermentation input and aging effect would require plenty of exposure to lots of versions to become clear on].  But it doesn't result in exactly the same heavy, rich flavors as those common in shou.  It's related, but a different set.

Complexity is positive in this.  Clean effect is nice, and sweetness is good.  Feel is rich and full.  So to me the make or break related to the experience is how one takes that mineral base flavor, which really sets the stage for all of the rest.  It's in between pine wood and cement, which one could interpret as medicinal herbs instead (which sounds better).  It should "clean up" a lot over the next round.

comparison version:  a heavy, distinct flavor range stands out in this, which I don't remember from trying it many times before.  Lots of what I do remember has transitioned to become only supporting aspects, a rougher, lighter mineral range.  Maybe part of that is betel nut (again), since I'm really describing a set of flavors that are primary that come across as connected.  Richness and sweetness weren't as present before, and a dried fruit range also entered in (like jujube, dried Chinese date, but I suppose it could also be interpreted in different ways).  

So is this not as good, better, or just different?  I'll get back to that over the next couple of rounds.

LOT #3:  this really does come together nicely this round; warm and sweet tones ramp up, and drier mineral tones balance better.  That same complex set of aspects is all present, all integrated really well.  I could probably sort out what the flavors are better, but that earlier list could work as identification.

comparison version:  this is pretty good too, but the profile is narrower.  It has softened and deepened over time, which is nice, but it lacks the fullness of flavor across the broad range the other expresses.  That's not necessarily worse, but it does seem to leave out part of what is making Liu Bao work, that intensity of balancing flavors, so I guess the complexity.  This is centered more on the deep mineral, with some woodiness, a bit towards pine, and a touch of what could be interpreted as dried fruit.  That probably sounds like a description of the other, but somehow it covers less range.

It's interesting considering that if the other version is closely mapped to shou pu'er it's at a relative end-point for fermentation, or the same would be true if it's quite aged instead, and at 7 or so years along this would be more at a mid-point (although I'm not sure how old it was back then, when I got it).  It should keep changing more over the next half a dozen years.  I'm not sure how well that parallel holds up; it's a different style of tea, not made in the same way, not expressing relatively identical young character in terms of aspects.  It might work better as a thought model or point of comparison than a guess about future transitions.

LOT #4:  depth, complexity, feel, and overall balance are nice for this.  It does seem like this is closer to a shou style, related to that warm, earthy depth.  That or else this has really been aging for a long time, a decade or more [21 years, per the product description].  It's different than shou, of course, with that dry mineral base standing out (that's not really present in shou at all), with the rest matching better.  That mineral level and type has softened and changed over the last two infusions.  

Even for the rest shou doesn't taste like jujube / Chinese date, to this extent, and what I'm interpreting as probably like betel nut isn't common either.  The rich feel and warmth is comparable, and fullness.  

It would be interesting to see if I can tolerate this while fasting, as I can shou, if that part carries over.  When a test of that doesn't work it puts me in an awkward place, because I won't just eat some food to resolve it.  I can drink shou or aged white tea when fasting, and so far the rest doesn't work very well.  I've only experimented with aged sheng a little, because the initial trial didn't go well.

comparison version:  there's a bit of sourness in this, that has been evolving to be stronger.  To me it's decent tea, interesting for being where it is, and it may well have positive transition potential left.  But the other is more positive now, in a couple of different ways.  Feel is pretty good for this, and the warmer tones work a lot better than how it came across a half dozen years ago (to me; people could love that edginess and intensity).

It's not a given that Gongfu brewing gets the best out of Liu Bao, or that all versions would work out the same related to relative optimum preparation.  To me for sheng and shou pu'er Gongfu brewing is best, in general, but these teas might work well brewed using other approaches, using a much lower proportion.  Just a good sized pinch would be enough for "grandpa-style" brewing, drinking it together with the tea left in, using a very extended infusion time.  It would probably still brew a few rounds that way, and you could add another pinch to keep on going, for quite awhile.  The first Legend of Tea version, for being closer to shou in character, would probably brew tea well using a thermos brewing approach, which isn't completely unrelated, using a very long infusion time, and very limited proportion, letting it sit for an hour or two.  Proportion could be really low for that; it wouldn't take much to brew a strong 700 ml of tea.

All of that is more discussion than suggestion; messing around with brewing approach might turn up interesting and positive results.

LOT #5:  since these aren't transitioning that much I'll probably leave off after this round.  Intensity is backing off just a little but this is far from finished, it seems.  Within another couple of rounds I'd be stretching timing a little, which would change aspects some, but I'll probably not write about that.  It's good, similar to how it has been for the last couple of rounds.

comparison version:  a sort of roasted sunflower seed flavor emerges; this is changing a little more.  The sourness that had evolved has now largely dropped out.  It expresses a more limited flavor profile, so it's less complex, but the range is comparable, and it's also good.  

This might match up really well with a range of foods, which is one positive potential that my Malaysian friend, who sent this to me, had emphasized in talking about how they prefer to experience Liu Bao.  It would be rich and intense enough to balance dim sum nicely, and include enough mineral and astringency to offset some of those dishes being heavy, rich, or oily.  The other would be ok too, but it would be more like drinking shou pu'er with food, which could also work.  

The way this tea was 5 or 6 years ago was a lot more intense, a bit harsher, including more mineral expression and astringency, and that would've balanced against heavy food in a different kind of way.  I suppose that it could work to see this character as in between how it had been and the Legend of Tea version I'm using it as a comparison with.

Conclusions:

This seemed to leave out two different kinds of conclusions:  to what extent do I like the teas (match to my preference), and how do I judge them in terms of quality level or trueness to type for Liu Bao?

The first relates most to my type preferences in tea, more so than to the quality level of either.  They're good, but I like sheng pu'er most, as tea types go.  From there I also really appreciate black tea, basic Chinese-style versions, especially Dian Hong, and a lot of oolong range, especially Wuyi Yancha and Dan Cong.  So I do like these, but not absolutely loving Liu Bao limits that.  It's the same for shou pu'er; it can be fine, but I tend to not love it.  And all the more so for green tea, which is more or less my least favorite main broad type.

Related to quality level these seem fine, but I can't really place either on a scale.  They seem like relatively different variations of Liu Bao, possibly relating to that raw / ripe or pre-fermented or not divide.  It's trickier to try to place two different teas in relation to being good quality examples of two different types or styles, in relation to each other.

I think the main version I'm reviewing here, the Legend of Tea version, is really nice, pleasant and complex, well-balanced, and in a drinkable style.  It's better tea than the other version, but that's probably not comparing apples to apples, since it is much more fermented than the other, older, or maybe a processing difference also entered in.

I think it does match one normal type range of Liu Bao, a variation that's already well fermented.  I can't place it on a quality scale, or guess about a normal pricing range, because the type just isn't that familiar.  But I can add that unless someone is looking for a slightly more challenging type, as the other was when it was newer, this covers pleasant and complex Liu Bao range in a very positive way.  Flavors are intense, complex, and well-balanced, and it lacks any kinds of flaws or obvious limitations.  As I interpret it the style is a good match to the general type.

The other version is fine too, but it may be even better in another half dozen years, once it finishes an aging process.

Since I can't really place this for quality level, due to not being familiar enough with a higher end range of Liu Bao, it's also hard to place it for value.  I can add that if you buy a few aged Liu Bao versions from a source like Yunnan Sourcing there is a good chance that none will really compare well to this, regardless of their age, or possibly even brand and version.  Storage conditions need to be somewhat optimum for the initial quality of a version to carry over well to an aged form; too wet and one would be quite musty, too dry and the fermentation process wouldn't occur properly.  

It's been awhile since I've done that, but Liu Bao has turned up here and there in samples since.  This version is one of the best I've tried, and maybe the best, since it's hard to keep track.  It will be interesting trying others from them, to help place it further.