Placing different kinds of tea vendors in relation to types

 

Over and over people ask online about others' favorite vendors, and one part that gets lost is that there are different kinds of vendors, with different focuses.  Value can vary a lot, and quality level of tea.  Range of what is available from each varies.  

I'm going to try to place different kinds of vendors by category, mostly through the lens of trying teas from a few sources in the past half a year.  I'll need to extend that, to get to other main types and source examples, because I've only bought tea from four sources this year, that come to mind (online; I keep buying tea from a favorite local Chinatown shop, mostly to give away, but also for myself).  That's a lot compared to last year; more than for the whole year.  Of course these aren't intended to represent optimum sources; they just match my own preferences.

Related to the Reddit tea vendors list capture, the image at the beginning, it's strange that there is only three categories there, for beginners, US sources, and teaware.  That leaves out most applicable range, for the rest of the world, and for everyone who isn't a beginner (although it still probably works for 90% of that sub / group).  It's interesting that one cited source, for beginners, mentions curated tea selling for 10 to 30 cents per gram.  That's something of a contradiction, for reasons this further content will describe.

I'll start with a couple main types of sources I didn't get to, and then move on to examples of what I've tried, and how I see those mapping to categories and other comparable source options.  There are pros and cons of using different kinds of sources, that relate to what someone is looking for, in terms of type / style, and value, which I'm describing as cost in relation to quality level.  

A relatively low quality version of tea can still be a great value, if selling for a very low and fair price.  Of course that's only if someone is ok with drinking that tea.  A really costly tea can still be a great value, if quality level, rarity, and market demand all support that it's worth it.  

To put a rough price range to that anything under 10 cents a gram is selling at the low end, for specialty tea.  Under 5 typically relates to a different quality range entirely, for mass-produced, pretty limited in quality tea versions.  You can generally buy really good quality, in-demand versions for 60 or 70 cents per gram, and it all levels off quite a bit around $1 / gram (which is the first reference to why "curated" tea selling for 30 cents a gram or less makes no sense; you can only curate the medium quality level range for that pricing, which is still pretty good tea, but "curation" implies that it's better than that).

This won't mostly be about evaluating value for different kinds of sources, but as I see it that's one main running theme, along with how good the teas actually are, and how unique the teas being offered are.  You can buy above average Anxi Tie Guan Yin from lots of places, or Jin Xuan rolled oolong in Thailand; this is mostly about teas that are more unique, and harder to find.

Places I don't shop

Online market outlets:  in the past Chawang Shop was sort of an exception to this, and I had great experiences buying tea from them.  Yunnan Sourcing is really the main example (and I've had positive experiences buying tea from them too).  King Tea Mall is a well-known and typically favorably regarded source, but according to some Yunnan Sourcing products may be a little more consistent.  King Tea Mall is probably buying and selling more online, and Yunnan Sourcing would use pretty well established upstream sources at this point, since they were already around 20 years ago, operating out of Kunming.

These kinds of vendors offer everything under the sun.  That's less true of Chawang Shop, but I'm using this categorization in a positive sense for them, claiming that they offer a broad range of tea types across a range of quality levels at decent value.  Here's an interesting in-house Jinggu shou pu'er I bought from Chawang Shop 4 years ago, probably not typical of what they sell, but then I'm claiming here that they sell different things, varying grades of sheng and shou, and hei cha, so in a sense it is.  That tea was unusually inexpensive ($15 for 400 gram brick), because they were selling it before it was settled (from fermentation funkiness) as a special offering, and you really need to hold onto it for a couple of years to get good results out of it.

Filtering related to what you want to find is a requirement, and there would be hits and misses, related to quality level and value.  Getting input from others through online group discussion could be helpful.  In the past text blogs or sites like Steepster filled this role, but now Discord discussion is probably more helpful.  Facebook is more or less dying, in relation to tea discussion, and Reddit tea subs tend to be stuck on people repeating the exact same beginner questions every single day. 

Especially related to Yunnan Sourcing the option to buy at sample quantity is a main benefit of using such a source type.  You can buy a couple of dozen samples for the same price as buying a lot of just a few kinds of tea, which you may not like.  Per gram value isn't as good, but it's not a great value buying a tea you don't want to drink.

It would sound as if I've moved on to narrow down sources that work even better for me, and I guess that's fair.

Higher end producer direct sites:  there aren't many of these.  Wuyi Origin is a main example, ran by a family member--as a frontperson--by Cindy Chen, selling great quality Wuyi Yancha, Fujian black tea, and Dan Cong, Chaozhou oolong.  Usually a source selling a broad range is a bad sign, because then they're typically just reselling wholesale outlet sourced teas, or else Taobao sourced versions, but that vendor has family in both places (Wuyishan, Fujian and Chaozhou, Guangdong).

I would buy tea from them, but I've drifted into preference for sheng pu'er.  It happens to people.  They're a fantastic source for really good quality oolong and black teas, which are great ranges for almost everyone.  But tea that good is on the costly side, typically above 30 or 40 cents per gram, with many at 60 or so.  That's still a great value, given that other "curator" sources would sell the same quality level versions for around $1 / gram instead.  

I did just buy tea from a Thai producer, which is another example of a different form of producer-direct sourcing, but I'll list that in the next section.

Gopaldhara is a good example of a Darjeeling garden that sells directly, both within India and outside it (through two different pages).  Their teas are exceptional; they fit the "higher end" description in this category heading.  There are other resale outlets that buy and distribute Indian teas, like Vahdam and Golden Tips, and those are ok too, but buying directly is generally better.  You can find better tea and better values.

really good first and second flush versions from Gopaldhara, reviewed in 2020

Curator sources:  there are a few different variations of these, and they kind of run together with ordinary broad type online sources.  A favorite I recommend is Trident Bookseller and Cafe, in Boulder.  They evolved to source award winning and otherwise amazing versions over time, to sell in-house, and eventually expanded that to limited online sales.  They don't push to expand volume, to contend with other larger outlets; it supplements their other business themes and income streams.

Value is great through them; for what they sell the pricing is really low.  That's only possible because they're a lot more producer direct than almost any other sources.  In a sense they're doing what Tealet had set out to do more than a decade ago, but left off at becoming just another wholesale vendor instead (which is fine; that's the model that ended up working).   I suppose their business model might be problematic, for ramping up volume and earnings.  Trying to sell the best teas at a good value would cut into your potential profit margin, and it might be hard to really ramp up volume.

Why do you never hear of a source like Trident then?  In part due to gatekeeping; people wouldn't mention it to help prevent ruining their own source.  In part because their existing consumer base is probably limited.  And then they don't use a lot of standard broad-form advertising to help with exposure, as a larger volume oriented source like Rishi does.

Other curator or specialty themed vendors are out there, but I can't mention any related to using them as a source.  Floating Leaves for Taiwanese oolongs gets mentioned as an example, but again I've not purchased anything from them.  A good quality curator source in the US would need to sell at high market value just to profit, so their teas would end up all being priced around $1 / gram, which I can't afford.  In terms of old-school, established outlets Tea Habitat has been a known Dan Cong vendor for a long time, since US tea enthusiast circles first came to be back in the early 2000s.  

An example of an established online vendor who blurs this line, with that of an ordinary mixed-types source, might be Seven Cups.  They started as a Wuyishan area main source, and probably retain that focus, but as I recall they were positioned in between the range of curator (selling the best versions at high cost) and an ordinary source (more average quality, selling for less to emphasize value).  This really could be the sweet spot for a lot of people.

Why would you buy tea from them, if you could get better versions for less through Wuyi Origin?  I suppose you wouldn't, if that were true, and you knew about it.  But they would carry more range, and at some point people find sources they like and stop looking.  They don't always want to make it their life's mission to buy the best teas for the best value; they just want to be able to order good tea for good value.  

Most people also aren't going to read 2000 or so word blog post about the subject, which is fine, very understandable.

Where I buy tea (mostly this year, as an example)

I'll use where I've been buying tea as an example, starting with kind of an anomaly.

Rishi / larger outlets:  I only bought two versions from them this year, Thai and Lao sheng versions (pu'er, if that was from Yunnan, but lacking any type name if from South East Asia).  I kept wondering what their versions were like, so finally just ordered some to see (even though they don't represent where I usually buy tea).  They were ok.  They don't hold up well in competition from producer direct sources, but then that's kind of a main running theme here, that you get the best value buying as directly as possible, or from specialized vendors, when possible from sources outside the US.

They would still be fine for buying decent value, higher volume, broad type range, surely better than the average mall outlet that might be nearby.  There aren't that many mall outlets nearby now, since many malls failed in the US, and Teavana folded (was bought by Starbucks, then largely shelved).  

Some of Rishi's other sheng could be better than what I tried; it probably is.  You can't judge a source or a producer from one or two tea versions.  Or a tea type; you see that happen a lot in online discussion, and it just doesn't work.

Wawee Tea / direct Thai sourcing:  oddly I'm not mentioning this as a good option for most readers; they typically wouldn't sell directly outside of Thailand.  But I've just bought really exceptional Thai sheng and black tea from them, and reviewed both here.  

That's a normal, running theme in South East Asian countries; you can buy local versions from very small outlets, or even good sized producers, that wouldn't be readily available / Western facing, through Facebook pages and such.  

Thailand has two online shopping platforms, variations of Amazon or Ebay, in Shopee and Lazada.  Existing small vendors would often sell their teas through there.  There would be even more such sources in Vietnam, another favorite broad origin for me, so let's move on to a Western facing outlet from there next.  I should mention first that 101 Plantation is an example of a main, high volume producer in Thailand, for buying rolled oolong and such, and my favorite Chinatown shop is Jip Eu.  You could buy their teas through Shopee, I think (both of them), but not from abroad.

Viet Sun:  I've bought the most tea from Viet Sun over the past 3 or 4 years, of any source.  They're "Western facing," meaning set up for international shipping, and in the past for credit card payment use, although they mentioned preferring other payment options when I last ordered from them, just a month and a half ago.  Their teas are great.  

Y Ty (Lao Cai) indigenous village produced Viet Sun sheng (reviewed here)

these are so complex that they seem a little different every time I try them

There's a common theme among new, great value, new format vendors that they tend to sell range that's hard to find at great pricing, then later as demand catches up it's more in a normal Western market range.  Their sheng cakes might be priced from $80 to $120 now, or 200 gram versions for half of that; just normal price range, for lots of outlet types.  That would've been $60 to 80 3 or 4 years ago.  Part of that is inflation, and a lot is demand for that supplied tea bumping up.  I doubt that any of it is them increasing their mark-up rate, although that's at least possible.  People find out about types ranges and sources, then demand increases, and costs, starting at producers demanding more.  Usually quality becomes a little more consistent too, so better value is filled in a little on the other end, maybe just not enough to offset higher pricing.

Hatvala had been the earlier more market oriented source I used from Vietnam, and they're still there, and would still be a good source.  That change related in part to me switching to pu'er preference.  They sell some Vietnamese sheng, as maocha (loose versions), but Viet Sun specializes in it, and seeks out a broader range of perhaps more novel offerings.

Back to Thai themes:  Tea Side would be "our" equivalent source.  Their pricing is probably higher than either of these two Vietnamese sources, perhaps related to them leaning into the mark-up a bit more than is the case for those two Vietnamese sources.  As a unique source option whatever they set is the standard market price, because there aren't alternatives.  You have to by sheng for 40 or 50 cents a gram instead of 25 or 30 if there aren't any other options, or just don't buy it.  Maybe it's that limited production at the quality range they sell pushes that same theme "up" a level, and those few higher quality option producers can keep demanding more, as I said was probably now occurring in Vietnam.

Let's check on that, by reference to their pages and offerings.

These are Viet Sun's brand new cake offerings, selling for $45 to 53 for 200 gram versions, so for between just under $90 per standard 357 gram size--which they don't sell--and around $100 on the higher side.  That's actually not bad; that tea is better than just about any Western source version for $100 per standard cake size.

Tea Side's 200 gram cakes are selling for $65 to 85, based on the first four listings, for 32 cents to 42 cents per 100 grams, or $115 to $150 per 357 gram cake quantity.  Is it better than Viet Sun's versions?  I really don't know; it has been awhile since I tried it.  Maybe only equivalent, based on what I last tried however long ago, maybe 5 years back or more.

For someone less concerned about value, about price per gram, and for whom spending a few hundred dollars on tea isn't that much of an expense, then buying a good bit of both teas would make sense, and comparing the two.  It's not like when you order too much fresh green tea, and then a half a year later it's not as good.  Oolongs hold up well to even a couple of years of storage, and sheng changes in ways that are often seen as improvements, as hei cha do.

To me these types of teas evolve well over the first two years, even for styles that aren't favorable for even middle time frame aging, transitioning some over 6 to 8 years.  You can't really buy a 200 gram cake and plan to drink some and then keep some for 20 years, to see a full transition, or at least if you did there wouldn't be much for either consumption purpose.  

I personally wouldn't age these styles of teas anyway (SE Asian sheng, in general).  I tend to only ever experience such teas as 10 or so year old versions, and we can't be sure that the styles from 20 years ago were identical.

Here are some examples of how that has went in practice; reviewing a 2014 Wawee Tea Thai sheng version, and a 2017 version, in 2023, so 6 and 9 year old versions.  Those teas were good, and not really through a more complete 20 to 25 year transition cycle just yet, so it was early to judge them.  This review covers two 2006 Hong Tai Chang versions, reviewed in 2018, with one from Tea Side, so those two were a dozen years old then, just a little further along.  One of those I own a cake of, unless I've got the version wrong, and it's a similar one.  Not so much of it is left now, but I have some I could try as a 20 year old tea.  It's fine, but it would be better if I was more into aged sheng.

I think I'm really referencing three different styles of tea.  The old HTC versions were made by a foreign (Thai) based Chinese producer back then, and Wawee Tea was making their own versions, without direct outside input, back in 2014 to 2017.  The plant material may be the same today, the same exact plants, but we can't be sure that the style is exactly the same.  Presumably they would've only improved processing over time, but there could've been some style shift, to being just different, versus better.  For "better" we need to include "better how," better to drink as new tea or more suitable for 20+ year aging.

Even if someone tries all of these teas just mentioned, as I have, it's difficult to say exactly what you are experiencing is better, worse, or different in style a decade later.  In this writing in 2015 I'm reviewing 2004 Thai "pu'er-style" versions, again from Tea Side, but I can't place how much my own perspective on the same teas has varied in 11 years.  So we make of it what we can.

Unconventional but standard vendor sources:  Tea Mania is the main source that comes to mind related to this (based in Switzerland; that's different).  

That vendor has shared samples with me a couple of times over the last few years, and I've bought more tea from them than from almost any source over the past decade, probably more in total than from Viet Sun.  Not so much recently, because I've been focusing on South East Asian versions and sources.  The styles coming out of Thailand, Vietnam, and Lao have become personal favorites.  Myanmar teas are great too; I've tried a good bit of those, and still own some, some of which has been aging at home for around a decade.

Tea Mania is one of the best sources online, per my judgment, even if only based on their Lucky Bee value oriented Yiwu cakes line.  Their other gushu range versions are more exceptional, of course, but not in terms of value, of quality and pleasantness in relation to prices.  You just can't buy decent Yiwu at low prices.

Tea Mania 2021 Jing Mai and 2022 Yiwu sheng pu'er

Since the main theme here is where I've been buying tea recently I might mention some tea that's in-transit.  I bought a couple of value oriented cakes from Chen Sheng Hao, after reviewing a cool sample set of mini cakes from them a couple of years ago.  Those were higher end, more exceptional teas, but I can't really be buying 50 to 80 cent per gram versions, so this order was about following up on someone commenting online that their lower cost blends are really good.  We'll see; I'll be writing about that a couple of times over the next few weeks.

Some other vendors have been sending me tea that fall into this range.  By "unconventional" I mean outside the normal Yunnan Sourcing / Crimson Lotus / etc., etc. paradigm.  You don't tend to see Chen Sheng Hao mentioned in places like the Reddit r/tea recommended vendors list.  Oriental Leaf, a vendor based in China, sent some exceptional hei cha versions over the past couple of years, novel variations of Fu zhuan or Fu brick teas; they work as another example.  Or Legend of Tea, a Malaysia based vendor, sent some Liu Bao and sheng to review, and they're probably as good a source as any for aged Liu Bao.

Oriental Leaf Fu zhuan hei cha (based on white tea)

     

Atypical naming stands out about one of those sources; the term "oriental" fell out of favor in "the West" about 15 years ago, regarded as pejorative (as negative).  Here in Bangkok they don't keep up with that kind of political correctness; businesses still use that term in business names, and the average person wouldn't be aware of that change.  But then people mostly only use English as a second language, which changes things.

It could seem odd to buy tea from abroad, in other countries than where it is from, from vendors who aren't producer sources.  But it would make sense to, if they could source better tea than standard US or European vendors are selling, and sell it for less than those places.  You would be "getting in on" lower local pricing in other markets, in this case in China and Malaysia.  Shipping would add extra cost, but it costs money to ship within one country, so it's only adding the difference between that and international shipping.  If it's $20 more then buying at volume could offset that, by a lot.

Let's add a reviewed example of that, from one of those sources, from Legend of Tea (out of Malaysia) to make that point clearer:

Legend of Tea 2024 Mengsong sheng pu'er (reviewed in this blog here in 2025)

This tea sells for 118 RM (Malaysian Ringgit), which is equivalent to $29, for a 200 gram cake.  That price looks like a citation mistake, doesn't it?  3 or 4 years ago it would've been more normal.  Their description:

This year's Xiao Ba Wang is sourced from ecological tea trees in the high mountains of Mengsong Da Man Lü, this sheng Pu-erh boasts a fresh, sweet aroma complemented by the distinctive alpine forest fragrance. Its naturally refreshing profile is soft, sweet, and intricately layered, offering a gentle yet rich tea-drinking experience. Each sip reveals a long-lasting sweetness with a refreshing, full-bodied aroma that lingers delightfully.

That's $50-some for a 357 gram amount that sounds like Yunnan Sourcing's higher end $110-120 or so current Impression cakes.  My review notes adds my impression:

#2:  depth and complexity pick up.  Bitterness starts, but that's still moderate.  Mineral undertone is pronounced, of course in a light mineral range, nothing like in Wuyi Yancha or other roasted oolongs.  Flavor seems to include floral tones, and a creamy sort of feel is adjoined by a touch of creamy flavor.  Sounds like oolong range, doesn't it?  But the feel structure of this is sheng, and the included bitterness, even if it's not challenging...

#4:  more of the same; it isn't changing quickly.  Aftertaste and bitterness may both dial up slightly.  Intensity is definitely good, and again the balance and overall effect is nice, the lack of flaws.  Flavor range doesn't extend to anything so interesting, but it comes across as good tea, pleasant and intense.  

I think I'm feeling the effects already... 

So it was pretty good, which I was characterizing as on the basic side, because I'd been drinking a good bit of distinctive, high quality, kind of expensive gushu around then, teas more in the 80 cents a gram range, $150+ for 200 gram cakes instead of $30.  

I've tried that since, and it's pretty good tea, relatively speaking.  It's much, much better than any standard factory tea; maybe two full levels above that.  I mean in relation to Dayi 7542, and also to many others that don't have the external image of being benchmark versions.  For $50-some for a standard size cake it's underpriced by a lot; from just about any other sources it would cost closer to $100, or maybe over that.

What are standard vendor sources then?

This last category description raises a question:  if those are unconventional exceptions, as sources go, what are the most conventional options?

Yunnan Sourcing comes to mind, but that's only a conventional, standard option related to a category, to what I'm calling a market style vendor, one who sells many produce categories and product versions (thousands, in their China based site, and still a lot in their US site).

For pu'er other main vendors are Farmerleaf, White 2 Tea, Crimson Lotus, and Bitterleaf (beyond King Tea Mall and Chawang Shop being good options, again what I'm calling market style vendors).  They would "only" sell a few dozen versions at any given time, a good selection, but limited enough that you could page through it.  

Rishi, which I mentioned, and Adagio are examples of older form, generalist, medium quality, higher volume outlets.  There's nothing wrong with preferring some relatively conventional rolled oolong, or whatever else might seem a bit standard.  People often like some teas as a comfort tea, or to drink with food, and preferences change over time.

To me Teasenz is a good example of a generalist vendor, based out of China, one who sells a little of different things, that is well-regarded and a good value.  Why them, when there are probably 100 relatively similar outlets online?  It's just an example I'm familiar with, and they've put the time in to be somewhat established as a known brand.  I've bought tea from them at least a couple of times, and it was good, nothing too amazing, but good for what it was represented as.  Actually a shai hong pressed cake I bought in 2017 was well beyond that, this tea; they could also find versions that stand out.

Really there aren't standard generalist vendors, typically.  One builds up an image related to a main theme and type range, if at all (like Yunomi for Japanese teas, or those other pu'er vendors already mentioned).  In some cases they grow to be well-regarded standard options, but more often their businesses just succeed, and they do a little better year to year.

Pu'er vendor source options and branding

kind of an ad image version copied from a FB page

Recently discussing how tea vendors use social media led me to consider branding theme issues, what it is that makes some vendors appealing, or to stand out.  This is mostly about pu'er vendors, and it does make a difference, related to different tea types being perceived differently, and target audience varying.  But this is also just more familiar range to me, and it supports narrower discussion better by just focusing on pu'er, even though the same themes repeat for all types and vendor specializations.

A Reddit comment, in a post discussing starting points for switching from coffee to tea, recommending sheng pu'er vendors, works as a start on this context:

Top vendors for puer tea:

white2tea.com - I'd vouch for anything they sell and their monthly club is also great

essenceoftea.com - totally trustworthy as well, also happens to be #2 candidate for monthly club if you want a second one in addition to W2T

liquidproust.com - great samples and diverse teas

Mr Mopar (reddit user, track him down)

(All of these are 100% trustworthy IMO)

It's always odd not seeing Yunnan Sourcing make such a list; it's probably the main outlet in terms of being known and their total sales volume, both in the US and globally.  Maybe not within China but that's a different subject.

Why are these top vendors?  They're trustworthy, this person thinks, and they've had good experiences with all of them.  They're into tea clubs, and a sample set theme from Liquid Proust is sort of related to that.  Mr. Mopar is a tea enthusiast who sells some teas; he's a nice guy, and a good reference, and probably is a reliable and good-value source.  He joined one of the online meetup sessions we held awhile back, and has been helpful in answering questions about teas for years prior.

The style or type of all of these vendors is completely different.  That kind of contradicts the approach I was initially going to take here, claiming that people probably relate to a certain form of vendor, one who presents their vendor role, ethos, and brand in a certain way that resonates with them.  It could instead be that after exploration people cut across such thematic divides to use whatever sources have worked out best, with more focus on the teas they are buying.  Or maybe a shared theme, like tea clubs, does link these sources, and only the rest of the form is different.

At any rate I'm going to outline how I see vendor branding and type here, what seems to work for each vendor to communicate to customers that they are a good source, and even more so what else they represent.  

To be clear a lot of what I'm communicating about brand themes and the tea versions being sold is hearsay I'm passing on; I'm not a routine customer of a dozen different pu'er vendors.  I've bought tea from Yunnan Sourcing, Farmerleaf, and Liquid Proust related to who I'm discussing here, so surely parts about typical offering range, quality levels, and brand themes are either limited or partly wrong.  I've been active in discussing tea themes online for a decade, longer than really makes sense to stick with that.  Maybe that's partly related to being a main Facebook group moderator, and I guess it also could tie back to tea blogging.

Yunnan Sourcing:  the original online broad market source, based around Scott, the owner and founder, working in the Kunming tea market awhile back in the early 2000s.  If I remember right they started out as an EBay outlet, and quickly moved to independent website sales, back when that wasn't really so common.  Browsing their sales site is like a visit to a large market space, where you will never cover most of what is there; they must sell over 1000 version of teas.  They wouldn't be "reliable" in the sense of 1000 (or 2000?) tea versions being consistent; that doesn't match the market theme.

In part growing and building up a customer base as pu'er (and other tea types) awareness and demand also ramped up sets them apart as unique.  It's interesting considering what even existed before Yunnan Sourcing, how people bought tea in the very early 2000s.  I think local shops played a larger role, and that the specialty tea industry in general was much less developed 20 years ago.  Just as individuals only now exploring better tea have trouble knowing where to start entire enthusiast circles were surely a lot less grounded in background experience then.

That part isn't entirely hearsay, or guesswork.  We can still go back and read old tea blog posts from 2000, if they're still "up."  In one of a series of meetups friends and I met with David Lee Hoffman of The Last Resort and Phoenix Collection, and founder of Silk Road, one of the oldest tea sourcing businesses from the 1990s.  His take on tea options and vending in the 1990s could easily be biased or adjusted by later perspective filtering, but a shop manager friend confirmed that there just weren't very many options to buy specialty teas we now see as standard options on a wholesale level in that decade.  I'm talking more here about relatively directly sourced endpoint retail vending, but surely that came even later; that's what Scott of Yunnan Sourcing helped develop.

A Facebook Yunnan Sourcing fans group works well for discussion, and brand promotion, but Yunnan Sourcing was a well-established business long before that came up.  Youtube videos also made Scott seem relatable, and their product descriptions are generally good, quite clear if a bit short (in product listing versions; the video reviews go into detail).  

Altogether it seems like they really know and understand their product scope, which I take to be accurate.  I've bought bad versions of tea from them but the proportion that were quite positive was very high, so that reliability carries over to what you purchase.  Unless your luck is bad, or you have no idea what you like yet, and then maybe not.  It's conceivable that tea scope outside their core (Yunnan versions) could be less reliable, but I wouldn't know.

a shu version separated out candy-bar style; normal enough now, but quite novel earlier on

White 2 Tea:  It's my understanding that along with Global Tea Hut White 2 Tea initiated the monthly tea subscription theme awhile back, a decade ago or so.  It was a good way to bump sales, charging $30 or so back in the day, I think, letting people try unique offerings and feel like they're a part of something, exploring tea without putting lots of review and discussion time in.  

Then their product theme ventures into selling blends of different inputs, and a broad range of offerings at different price points, in different styles, along the line of what the owner happens to like.  Oddly not including any information about the products worked around controversy or complications with that range; the products are named in abstract ways.  So maybe many aren't blends of different materials?  Mention of hearsay information about what versions really are come up in online discussion, but the accuracy of those would be hard to evaluate.

Catchy new pressed forms or mixes of product inputs add more novelty.  It all seems to work as a counter to the oversold traditional themes approach, making dubious claims based on individuals' authority and tea culture history.  For some side-stepping a long (endless) learning curve must be a main positive outcome; if you generally like what they sell you only need to interpret how they describe products, which isn't based on much background description content.  They would still pass on some idea of what things are, experienced aspects and such.

It seems possible that not adapting what other vendors present as traditional cultural forms may resonate with many; no Chinese terminology, no one is wearing a robe in marketing content, little discussion of cha qi (but some), no need to memorize production areas and typical types.  Teaware and tea drinking are two different things but some other content could imply a degree of buy-in to aesthetic themes, owning gear, emphasis on setting, and elaborate brewing process, and some people might want to stay distanced from all of it, to focus on the tea, without memorizing a broad matrix of background information.

This drifts off topic a little, but it's interesting to consider that selling conventional tea types as something unique makes them unique, as the only place across the entire internet they can be purchased.  An example:  Jing Mai sheng pu'er often has a bit of a pine flavor aspect, and if a vendor took that and presented and branded it as "Pine Forest" product, not Jing Mai, you could only buy it from them, even if it's common enough.  Some people might sort out what it is, but even then if you are selling a good quality, good-value, extra piney version even in that case they might not have any interest in shopping around for a different character or better value version.  Maybe most of what White 2 Tea sells really is narrow source origin material, the most common current theme.  Some background hearsay accepts they sell a lot of material blends, but that could be wrong.  It's not that unusual for typical online discussion to be off the mark.

Essence of Tea:  to me this was a clear example of part of that older theme White 2 Tea was reacting against, a traditional style vendor offering clear information about products, selling versions based on curated quality levels and trueness to type claims.  Pricing was always on the high side, adjoining an implied or direct claim that the quality level justified that (and the tea probably is good).  For White 2 Tea it can be hard to compare pricing to standard market value, since the products are identified as unique and abstract individual offerings.  

Maybe it's more accurate to say that White 2 Tea was reacting against other vendors, who tended to come and go, who really leaned into the Tea Master / old plant material version / wild growth / highest quality level / most authentic themes.  Essence of Tea draws on some of that, but they're mostly only presenting products as much better than average tea, tied to quality, not so much framed in those other catchy story-oriented ways.  

This would be a good place to "name names," and blame a couple of vendors for excessive reliance on those themes, or being caught out lying about them, or at least getting parts wrong, but I'll skip that part here.  Vendors sharing authentic interest in parts of Chinese or other background cultures can work, but it generally comes to light at some point when those angles are being manipulated instead of genuinely appreciated.  Of course there's a grey area between the two, or both can happen at once.

Liquid Proust:  Andrew Richardson is basically some guy that got into selling tea, not that the founding of Yunnan Sourcing and White 2 Tea weren't a lot like that (and Crimson Lotus, and Bitterleaf, etc.).  He was into making up novel blends at first, Dian Hong French Toast and such, then passed through an aged oolong phase, getting mixed up in pu'er, the main natural end point for tea preference.  

He was focused on bringing tea to the masses through sample sets, early on giving those away, I think it was.  One is about to come out soon; they're still very value oriented.  It's possible to critique the practice by saying that they're just ordinary tea versions, but that's the point, that you can try a half dozen different ordinary, decent sheng versions for very little expense, many aged.  You can get started, without going through a learning curve or spending much.  Sample sets through other vendors serve a similar purpose, but that tends to cost significantly more, and to not capture the same random sample of standard and unusual offerings.

Now that I think of it I wrote an interview post about Andrew's subsidized sheng sample set theme (the Sheng Olympiad, before that naming dropped out) back in 2017, and we did an online meetup with him in 2022, so together those might capture his perspective transition over 5 years of selling teas.

Mr. Mopar joined that day too, included in summary. 

Is Andrew more reliable than Yunnan Sourcing, White 2 Tea, or Essence of Tea?  Hard to say.  They're all doing different things.  EOT is more of a curator vendor, and they may be the most consistent, selling the most uniformly high quality teas, which comes at the cost of them costing the most (although I've never tried teas from them, so I really wouldn't know; again I'm passing on general hearsay here).  

White 2 Tea might be a little all over the map; that ends up getting mixed into the limited information they provide about their teas, that they are exploring or even creating new options.  For Yunnan Sourcing selling a thousand or more teas you have to sort it out yourself.  Maybe their in-house brands work as a short-cut to narrowing that quite a bit, or buying samples can offset exploration costing hundreds of dollars.

Andrew is sort of curating, just in a different sense.  He sells what he likes.  This reminds me of an even better regarded modern vendor form and example, Teas We Like, with the theme mentioned right there in the name.  I expect what "they" like is pretty consistent, in line with what experienced tea enthusiasts like (I've tried at least one version of what they sell, but if the same tea is from a different source, as in that case, storage input differences can mean the tea from the same production batch wasn't actually the same).  

In the past tea blogger reviews and online group discussion would serve as ample background reference, but text blogging is generally finished now.  You can check out Mattcha's blog for an example that ran late in ending, or maybe hasn't yet.  Just bear in mind that any tea enthusiast, including bloggers, builds up bias towards vendors selling what they happen to like.  If your own preferences somehow match very closely you can draw on those opinions directly, but otherwise some sorting is required.

Other branding themes tied to social media marketing:

So we have a website version of a Chinese market, a personal choice and style blended creation outlet, a traditional vendor form, and guy who sells what he likes, passing on his own exploration outcomes.  Surely "Mr. Mopar" is close to the last; he literally is a guy selling some of what he has collected over a long time to fund buying even more.  What else could work?

I think Crimson Lotus may not be too far from the White 2 Tea case, just more open about what teas actually are, and more centered on a limited style range (drinkable when young sheng and shu pu'er, which the business founder has mentioned in tea podcast discussion before, so that's hearsay from a decent source).  They make blends of inputs and surely also sell narrow-origin products, but I have no idea which matches their most standard product theme.  I think I've only ever tried one version from them, in a sample set from Liquid Proust, appropriately enough.  I've only ever tried one version from Kuura too, an Australian outlet that's more or less an interpretation of White 2 Tea, offering blends that aren't marketed based on what the inputs actually are (or at least they had seemed to be that earlier on).

Farmerleaf is maybe the main brand version I've not mentioned yet, related to general awareness and buzz (or Bitterleaf; I could mention that I'm also skipping them).  William, the Farmerleaf founder, ran an earlier vending outlet closer to these other forms earlier on, and became more location-based after moving to China.  And marrying a Chinese woman; it's unusual how most of these other vendor cases are structured around that form, I guess except for Andrew, and I don't know the W2T backstory.  That helped William to present teas as tied to Jing Mai origins, with lots of source information, so that he could also produce ample video information content about the background and products.

This is a shift from brand-theme (image) to marketing forms though, right?  The two end up linking naturally.  The type of vendors who passed on second-hand information about old plants, traditional tea styles, and Tea Master inputs could only make that so convincing, based on showing a photo or two and quoting people.  If any of it was ever proven to be inaccurate, which kept happening in isolated incidents, it would all come into question.  William is there in the videos on-site, talking to people, showing the plants and processing steps.  Some of that could still be a little off--what those people say doesn't necessarily have to be true, or the whole truth--but it's quite convincing, and almost all of it matches my understanding based on experience and other source input.  That makes exceptions more interesting, but there are already too many tangents here.

The same happens with group forms and communication outlets, beyond Youtube informational videos showing background.  Crimson Lotus produces and interesting podcast version, not at all focused on their own products, but learning and feeling a connection to them as a source vendor can go together.  Farmerleaf hosts a Discord server, as others must now (Liquid Proust also does), a place for vendor source "fans" to discuss experience, an indirect form of promotion.  

For a more traditional form outlet like EOT a tea club fostering connections would also seem to make sense.  They have a website blog section; that's traditional.  In their About Us section essentially every paragraph mentions their focus on selling good tea, a good summary point for a curator vendor.  Their tea club description probably works as a general summary of what those tend to be about, how they can go beyond selling some samples on a monthly basis:

As with our web store, the tea club has a focus mainly on Puerh tea, but also features Liu Bao, Wuyi Yancha and other interesting teas.  We try to make it enjoyable and educational, with exclusive pressings, comparison tastings & small batch teas.  There are also discounts for club members on featured teas and special promotions.

Other themes:

What else is even possible?  Wouldn't there be a way to reach out to younger people, to combine tea and technology themes, or to couple tea interest with other social sub-themes?  Not so much, for a few reasons.  Let's start with an exception though, of a new type of communication or social networking channel.  Tea apps tend to replicate what other forms of groups had been doing for awhile, with Steepster and Tea Chat standing out as main earlier examples.  Adding a timer or notes function could seem different, but those don't change much, since there are plenty of ways to time infusions or take notes.  

I've ran across discussion of three tea apps under development, and I've written about one in this blog, but as far as I know only one experiences significant uptake, with that one shifting from function themes and networking onto also selling tea.

Steepster still exists, but it's quiet now

Tea interest and potential customer base is still narrow enough that vendors would need to keep focus on that shared interest, and could branch further into source variations, or outlet character themes, but they would have to avoid filtering potential audience, eliminating appeal to broad ranges. 

Global Tea Hut had sort of did that, by mixing the Eastern religion and "progressive" perspective themes, but they never really were a conventional vendor, limiting sales to their subscriptions, as I understood it.  Branding would always involve themes that attract or put off potential customers, but for tea vendors it would seem best to not have that point towards a narrow target group.  I suppose that could still work, if targeting and reach was effective enough, if that group was big enough or enough of them bought in.

photo credit this FB post by Sergey

Moychay, a Russian vendor, maybe their equivalent of Yunnan Sourcing, successfully combines interest in tea itself with aesthetic interest in teaware and specific forms of tea drinking spaces, and to some extent with "Eastern" perspectives.  I think this works better for them related to the intersection between Russian cultural perspective and tea, or more generally to Eastern or Asian themes.  They include tea tasting areas in stores and run "tea clubs," not all that close to a Western cafe, I suppose hard to describe in theme.

To back up a bit I'm in Asia right now, having lived in Thailand for most of the past 16 years, only not being here for 4 or 5 months over the past year (and I've visited essentially all of the main producer countries, except India and Nepal).  Does Thailand seem generally Asian, as people might interpret abstract Asian culture themes?  Sure, or maybe of course not, depending on what someone would mean by that.  It's absurd to narrow cultural patterns down to one broad strand of mixed themes like that.  

So what is Moychay tapping into, related to Asian culture, that may or may not be authentic?  Do people sit on cushions on the floor and use low tables, and use bamboo matting or soft and warm natural colors for background?  Are the elaborate Gong Fu equipment set-ups something any significant number of Chinese people use?  Not really, although the first part of all that probably works better in Japan, sitting on the floor.  Same for emphasis on wood or rock aesthetic, use of natural building materials.  I might add that traditionally people did sit on floors quite a bit more in Thai culture, and made use of outdoor spaces for meals or places to rest, covered patio areas, which later converted to enclosed and more Western indoor AC cooled rooms.

Wooden paneling could come up in lots of places, in a barn in the US, in an old Chinese teahouse, or in design of Thai houses from 50 years ago.  It's comforting and pleasant, regardless of how traditional a designed form ends up being.  Maybe the style being traditionally grounded doesn't matter as much as there being a consistent and pleasant style.  Regardless of theme people need to "get it" and connect with it.

Here in Bangkok a local vendor tried to do something a bit equivalent; Peace Oriental tried to combine general Asian forms into one non-distinct aesthetic style, selling a range of traditional teas.  To me it ended up being pretty close to a modern adjusted form of Japanese aesthetic.  I'd rather have tea in a garden than in a wood paneled or off-white walled space, and at home instead of in a shop, so it's not relevant to me.  It's my impression that such local businesses generally end up selling flavored, sweetened take-away tea versions to draw on better overlap with current local demand.

I think the first Peace Oriental shop iteration; this is the place I visited

later location aesthetics may have evolved a bit

A Westerner might wonder, why use "oriental," a term now rejected in the West as negative in tone?  Political correctness doesn't have the same reach and influence in Thailand.  They're not going to go out and rename a bunch of hotels and spas--and tea shops--because some progressive Americans cancel a word.

Unique vendor themes, support by content

What if a vendor had already established sales of good, basic, well above average quality teas through an online outlet; what could they draw from all of this, or what could they add to a brand theme or story to support that range of options?  It would really depend on what they value.  I like that EOT keeps it simple; they sell "good tea" (and they probably really do).  Or that Andrew sells what he likes and finds interesting.  And that Yunnan Sourcing makes a broad range available to customers, not narrowing that in any helpful way for them, adding work to their selection process, instead offering a crowded market as a unique resource form.  All these approaches are their own thing, based on communicating what the vendors are about.

The other parts and background that can be added, about sourcing themes, organic teas, valuing traditional styles, or non-traditional styles (those blends, different pressed shapes); all can condense into brand theme patterns.  Something simple like cake (bing) wrappers can add to that.  A tea wrapper should say what the tea is, or else it's confusing, requiring a customer write on them or add another label, but beyond that artwork is arbitrary.  

a Crimson Lotus cake; this one

Subscriptions or sample sets are great examples of how to make the same product themes unique, and even more attractive.  Discussion group spaces can do the same, adding background and a sense of community without adding anything substantial at all.

Content is something else though, isn't it?  With text on the way out and photos vying for attention among millions of Instagram accounts it's now down to video.  In a way this is ideal, because the personal perspective connection comes across best in this medium.  Who is William of Farmerleaf, or Sergey of Moychay?  They're right there in their Youtube videos, telling you what is interesting to them, and what they value.  William is a tea geek and Sergey is into Asian culture (Chinese, mostly); if that resonates with you maybe their teas will too, or the opposite influence could occur.  Don Mei of Mei Leaf is the most divisive example of this; to some his persona and enthusiasm really sell his teas, and others feel the opposite effect.

Note that very little of what I'm describing relates to anything like a "cult of personality" effect, as Don Mei is drawing on (not necessarily in an entirely bad way; he's personable).  Andrew talks about himself quite a bit, maybe more so than the teas, but in general these are all unconventional individuals promoting the teas more than their own charisma-based pitch.  Paul of White 2 Tea has shared his own perspective in a tea blog but in general he is all but Google-proof, not putting any focus on himself versus the business.  It's admirable, to me; that also demonstrates consistency and commitment. 

One thing that doesn't seem to work well is keeping it all too generic.  10 years ago having a developed website, broad product selection, decent value, and limited descriptions of products was enough.  That was already a theme.  Now there are hundreds of similar tea outlets in different places.  Offering just a few catchy products can go much further, something that seems unique and attractive, mixing product brand themes, uniqueness, and tie-in to general branding.  

I suppose the industry can thank White 2 Tea for helping develop that, for positioning a lot of what they sell in such a way, even without the same degree of product descriptions.  Back at the beginning that comment on Reddit said about them "I'd vouch for anything they sell."  Can it even work that way, that everything one vendor sells can match well with any set of preferences?  Not really, but one customer's likes can match unusually well with one vendor's sense of taste.  Or bias could also enter in; if you think you'll love every single tea you try under some circumstances some just seeming ok could still spin as more positive.  

People are also inclined to sort themselves into teams in all sorts of odd ways now, in many cases related to liking certain product ranges, or owning certain things.  If you like wearing a Japanese robe or martial arts clothing why shouldn't your tea vendor look like that too.

This must be a main factor in how branding now resonates with customers, right?  Do the expressed values align?  Two vendors with very different look and feel, brand images, could sell identical teas and they could be perceived much differently related to that context.  Value gets folded into that; in some cases selling good quality tea at good value is a main selling point.  Now it's even more common for extensive claims of exclusivity to seem to be supported by high price points, almost more than the opposite, the quality justifying cost.  Those two things aren't necessarily complete opposites, quality and value, since some teas selling for over $1 a gram can still be a great value, but to some extent they can be.  

Related to video content, a vendor presenting content in an aesthetic backdrop might charge significantly more than a Westerner wearing normal clothes in a normal room.  Sometimes the tea would be better in the first case, but it's also possible that it might not be as good.  Again a half dozen examples come to mind related to this very thing happening, to the hype just being hype.

Do people seem to tend to get it all sorted out, trying different tea sources and teas, eventually "seeing through" these less supported claims and context additions?  Yes and no.  Vendors have definitely faded from prominence for weighting brand themes over what they actually deliver, and not offering great quality or value, but even most of those are still around.  In the long run I think vendors who really walk the walk fare better, but the few exceptions where the opposite is true are interesting, where it can be broadly understood that a vendor is selling ordinary tea for a poor value based mostly on spin; how can they do it?  By mastering branding, and use of social media channels and content development, accepting that customer turnover is a part of that approach.  

Disruption of earlier centralized tea discussion--back to Tea Chat, Steepster, and a half dozen main text blogs--limits a narrowing of shared interest that had occurred before.  There are still a couple of dozen main vendors that come to mind, or come up in discussion, as respected and high quality sources, but the field seems more open than ever for well-developed, novel sales approaches.  Standard modern marketing might work better than ever now, using Google and Facebook ads to get the word out.

Building a large Tik Tok following might be enough, even though that's an especially odd example.  A more standard path is probably what Farmerleaf did; start as a conventional source, add in more of a narrow theme (regional tie-in, source-type related, or other), develop content and social media marketing channels, move from sales based on value to much higher price points and focus on quality over time, and put a face on all of it through a main founder image and backstory.  If you can get that to resonate with one or more specific customer types or groups all the better.

Can a brand or source skip all that and put all of the focus on tea (as White 2 Tea isn't actually doing; not using a standard approach can still be a theme)?  Maybe.  Have you ever heard of Trident Cafe and Booksellers?  Probably not, but they source the best possible tea, and go really light on any form of brand-image or broad online promotion.  I would imagine their sales volume would be double or triple where it currently stands if they had taken up a couple of these approaches, putting more of a face on their business, letting online content communicate who they are, expanding reach through social media exposure, giving people more to go on for self-identification connection.  Maybe taking a longer path and letting the tea remain the focus is positive; all the image themes only go so far.

As I read back through this maybe one critical distinction isn't really clear:  a divide between background information and stories or imagery tied to cultural context.  William of Farmerleaf is showing how tea is grown and processed in videos, talking to farmers or people who make the tea.  That's different than emphasis on ceremonial brewing practices, aesthetic teaware or elaborate trays and tables, or historical or mythological stories.  Each could seem attractive to different people, or some people wouldn't care about either.  For sure all tea was made from very specific plant types (even if it was several), grown in one or more micro-climates, and processed according to a number of steps, so the difference here is that you can either value or ignore all the background that made your tea into what it is in the end.

What I'm seeing as the main central theme here is that as long as a vendor can communicate their own genuine, developed tea appreciation forms that can resonate with some others, just not everyone.  Examples come to mind of people (vendor sources) "tapping into" both sets of ideas and themes entirely for marketing purposes instead of communicating their own experience and interest, to actual production background and other parts that can be added.  It always ends up seeming a bit thin, watered down, in comparison with what is presented by more genuine and experienced enthusiasts and vendors.  They're trying to copy something.  In common cases they're literally copying content and images, the equivalent of a high school kid using AI, Wikipedia, or image search to fill in what they should've actually researched on their own.  It's not hard to spot.

To be absolutely and completely clear I'm not blaming anyone I mentioned here for any of that; I think they all did the exact opposite.  Even Don Mei is communicating a slightly exaggerated version of his own experiences, and mixing valuable and functional background information in along with sales pitch.  He doesn't push culture-based aspects; historical stories barely enter in, and he advocates use of simple brewing approaches.  These other vendors I don't intend to critique even to that limited degree (the reference to some exaggeration in descriptions).  

I think they all communicate their own genuine interest in tea, in different forms, and it works, it really comes across.  Surely product uniqueness, consistency, pricing mark-ups, and final value varies for all of them, maybe even within their own range, but sorting all that out is part of the fun of exploring pu'er.

2006 Xiaguan 8653 sheng pu'er, Bangkok stored

I visited that favorite Chinatown shop again, Jip Eu.  No one needs to mention this to my wife, but I re-checked how a 2004 7542 cake from there was transitioning and noticed it was over half gone, and it was so pleasant and improved that I wanted to buy another.  Really I should be sitting on a mountain of such cakes, since the pricing for some is either fair or else favorable, but I mostly just try to keep buying more than I drink.

That shop visit was nice; I don't even remember when I was just in there to hang out.  I met an online contact in there a year or so ago, and stopped by for a couple quick visits to pick up teas for gifts, and maybe an extra tuo here or there.  I might not have stopped to chat since covid started.

it looks like it's transitioning

Talking about sheng prompted Kittichai, the owner, to share some Bing Dao dragonballs, three of them, which I think he said were from 5 year old younger plant material, but decent tea.  They know a local Bing Dao processor, which would definitely help with getting tea that's "real," related to that kind of high demand origin area context.  They don't even try to source or sell Bing Dao, so it's not the typical case of vendors networking to know producers, he just happens to be from an old Chinese tea family, so they know different people.  

Since we were hanging out he brewed some of a Bing Dao cake, which was really nice.  The short sequence of rounds I tried didn't do it justice but I had to go, and at least that was one more example of the type for awareness sake, not that all Bing Dao is supposed to be relatively identical.  I had only remembered trying one version, which may or may not have even been genuine.  I can say more about that experience, and the earlier one, when I get around to mentioning more about trying those dragonballs.

While buying that 7542 I asked if they had older Xiaguan, since I keep buying a tuocha version, and they mentioned this cake.  Selling for around $60 the pricing seemed quite fair, for a 2006 version.  Of course I had no idea of online source pricing, and wasn't inclined to look that up to help with judgment, I just bought those two cakes.  After the review part I mention what turns up when you look for similar age-range versions, which is interesting.  This seems to be a sort of benchmark or known style version, which may be well suited to aging, to the extent that a 16 year old Bangkok-stored version might not be quite there yet, or at least that's pretty much what this review concludes.

Review:

First infusion:  so promising!  The color was so dark it flashed though my mind that I might've accidentally bought a shu, but it's just age transitioned, so the color went dark and into brown and lighter reddish brown.  

There's a bit of a funky edge but a deeper set of flavors is really positive and catchy.  That one part is like catcher's mitt, aged and well-cured leather, of a specific form.  I would guess that might fade over the next two rounds and the rest will develop.  This includes other range like bees wax and dried autumn leaf, nothing completely out of the ordinary for general range, but novel for individual flavor expression not tending to match those.  Jujube is probably a more natural interpretation, dried Chinese date.  This should be really nice.  

Feel is already developing some depth, on the first somewhat light infusion.  I went a little long on that one to get this started, over 15 seconds, which I'll scale back to drink at a normal infusion strength.  Proportion isn't absolutely maxed out but not light either; this might be a reasonable trial.

Second infusion:  that edge is still present; hard to say if it's fading since intensity increased quite a bit, which makes it hard to sort out effect of what comes across most, which changes with intensity.  If "catcher's mitt" makes that hard to place damp stored books is close enough, it's just not exactly it.  This tastes a little like the one library in the University of Hawaii smells, Sinclair.

Warm mineral depth picked up a lot; now that's a main component.  The feel of this tea is really interesting, the way that it's rich, just slightly dry, but also sappy, with an effect that crosses the middle rear of your tongue, and connects with an aftertaste sensation coming from all around your mouth.  It feels like you can taste this with the sides and the roof of your mouth, like it's activating a new range of sensation.  That one rich, heavy, warm fruit tone got stronger too; this tastes more like eating a dried jujube than actually eating one, in a sense.  Aftertaste wouldn't carry over when eating the dried date like this.

Even though the main rounds are coming up, when it will open, clean up, and show off its real potential, I'm already thinking crazy thoughts about this tea.  I should buy another cake, and not post this review.  As a middle-ground solution I might post it but skip mentioning any links to it online, keep it a bit quieter.  All that is getting ahead though; it might not develop to be more positive over further rounds.

Third infusion:  cleaned up a little.  I really like this tea.  All the same description that I've already mentioned still works, but it doesn't do it justice, or really describe why, what is so catchy about this aspect set.  It's in a pretty good place for aging transition; that helps.  It's pretty far through, but the form of that works, the odd edge wasn't coupled with the normal degree of mustiness.  Fermentation transition isn't relatively complete, it doesn't seem, and it's far from optimum; I don't mean that.  It's not just a bit before you can really appreciate it, at the edge of moving on to a better transformation form.  It's already there, where a new range is starting to make some sense, it just doesn't balance like it's going to later.  

If this does clean up further with a couple of months of rest this will be as good as any aged tea version I own a cake of, in relation to match to my preference.  Maybe that's a bit sad, since I think this is still ordinary quality range and aspect form tea, but I tend not to think of it that way.  I own or try whatever I happen to, and that's fine, and doesn't include any $200 and up cakes, and perhaps never will.

Fourth infusion:  not changing, not improving.  It's down to whether some of what I interpreted as a storage related edge really isn't the effect of this not being fully aged transitioned.  At this point it seems likely that in a few more years a more complete change-over might be more positive, maybe even a half dozen.  Why is it always that time-frame?  Probably that's error related to guessing.  In this case this has some of that warmer, deeper aged character, it also just includes a bit of green wood flavor range, which along with that odd edge and feel effect seems to imply it will deepen, smooth out, and gain more of the resinous range, just perhaps not on that shorter time period.

I just re-tried a 7542 version from this shop, a 2004, that shifted pretty fast over a comparable time period, maybe 3 years.  The rough edges I described in the last review were gone.  Flavor intensity dropped along with that, but deeper range is more positive, and smoother richness, versus the slight harshness of mineral and vegetal range.  If this changes that much over the next 3 years it should be an interesting and positive experience. 16 years sounds like a long time, how old this is, especially related to hot and humid local conditions, but I guess initial style and compression also factor in.

Fifth infusion:  a spice tone might be picking up, something hard to pin down.  I might've lost track of an infusion along the way; this really could be six.  My wife and kids are adding considerable background noise and minor drama to this tasting experience, which I've conducted outside to avoid, not really so successfully.  

Sixth infusion:  heavier flavor range includes something that's not as positive, a sort of heavy grease mineral range.  That's more pronounced at this stage for longer infusion times drawing out heavier range better, which makes the form seem different.  Part of it is character transition across rounds, probably, and part just effect from some range standing out more.

I think I was a little overexcited at this experience being novel for me, but it's still in a normal range for being positive (versus negative or neutral), it's just new to me.  Part of the character really is catchy, it just didn't evolve to be the main experience range over further rounds as I hoped.  In a couple of months a longer settling process will have occurred, and I can try it again, and it may be better.  

Later infusions:  it kept going, with a bit of earthiness similar to wild mushroom or some other fungus increasing.  That seemed odd to me, since more often that range is stronger earlier then it fades towards what was more positive in this earlier, the sweeter dried fruit range.  It seemed to be the result of stretching infusion time, which more often brings out heavier mineral flavor range, or changes astringency effect, but in this case related to that.

Expert input

I asked someone with more experience than me--across both sheng exposure and aging scope--about his general impression of this tea, and aging concerns, "Mr. Mopar," who we talked to in two online meetups this year.  He said that he likes the 2005 version better (both are selling through King Tea Mall now, with this version--one seemingly identical--selling for $50, and the 2005 for $58).  That's in the range of what I paid for this, which I took to be a good price, and still do.

I asked Mr. Mopar when he thought this tea would be relatively fully age-transitioned, and he said that might take 25 years or so, at least under normal Taiwan conditions, which could shorten by 3 or 4 years in Malaysian storage, if everything was ideal.  Of course moving off the ideal theme could also relate to ruining the tea potential, not something we discussed.  Bangkok climate range is similar to Malaysia, just as hot and humid most of the time, just with more variation in climate / weather here, so that it's a bit cooler some of the time, just not so much drier.  

Going off that this tea might be relatively completely changed over after 21 years, so in 5 more.  That's not to say that it couldn't be quite positive after 18 or 19, in 2 or 3 more years, but I get it about why seeking out an optimum makes sense when you have a few dozen sheng versions around, or more.

I'll never own tongs of these teas, unless I change approach, and take up selling some.  My tea spending will be capped like in that example of buying a second aged 7542 when one runs down, placing one significant online order per year, and picking up other tea here and there.  I don't really mind not being in the mix for trying a few dozen better versions over a year, just getting to what I get to, and not owning an extra 100 cakes that map out potential consumption over some years.  I own or try what I happen to get to, and not pushing that on to match some expected form or norm works out well, and matches up with my budget limitations.  

In looking up vendor references about this tea type and source options I turned up input from another blogger that does explore a little further, in Mattcha's blog, which I cite in the following section.

Other sources, other input about this tea

In looking up what this is supposed to be a few different themes emerged, that it's one of those benchmark version teas, mapping out a distinct style, that 80s and 90s versions were well regarded, and that teas in this general time-frame range are available and not so expensive.  Then some versions just a little older, specifically the 2001 version, seemed to cost quite a bit more.  Why would that be?  Some years are better regarded, which could factor in, or a version that aged to a relatively ideal place now and not widely available might cost quite a bit more than one 5 years newer that's the opposite of both, not quite ready with more out there on the market.  Let's some examples and what vendors say about them.

King Tea Mall, 2006 version:  this might be relatively identical.  Of course storage changes a lot, and the only information listed with this tea is that of "Guangzhou natural storage," along with the $50 price.  Not much to add, given that's all they say.  Their 2005 version sells for $58, and a 2004 is $140.  Maybe it doesn't matter which supply and demand factors shift that, if years really are so different, but it would be interesting to hear more about that, why the pricing varies in that form.

Teas We Like 8653 mixed set:  they had listed a 2001 version, now sold out, so that pricing isn't available for comparison (although another reference I mention here says what it had been), but they do currently list a Taiwan stored set of related teas, selling for $225:

1 Quarter Cake of 2001-T8653

1 Quarter Cake of 2003-T8653

1 Quarter Cake of 2005-T8653

1 Quarter Cake of 1999 Xiaguan Commission

The last is a tea made in the same style, but not a Xiaguan cake, or so that says.  Their post of the sold out 2001 version places it in relation to the others, and says a little about the general style:

The iron-pressed version of this cake, with its flat edges and characteristic indentations, is particularly sought after nowadays for its favourable aging behavior.

This was our favourite batch of the recent tastings of early 2000s 8653 cakes, and we included it in our Xiaguan Iron Cake QC set. Wrappers are not in perfect condition, as expected for this kind of cake. The taste profile is very slightly smoky, dense, sweet and resinous.

Yunnan Sourcing 2001 8653 version:  listing for $540

Xiaguan's classic 8653 recipe was first developed in 1986 and produced for many years since then. Our offering is the 8653 blend pressed in 2001. The pressing was done with an iron press and the cake is tightly compressed and has a coin-like flat edge.

The 2001 version of this cake is a classic, and the cake which we are offering here has been aged in Kunming since 2001. 15 years of Kunming storage has given this cake an aged feeling but not compromising it's character or powerful taste and cha qi.

Sounds good, but the $540 pricing seems a bit much for most people.  King Tea Mall lists a 2001 version too, but theirs costs $700 (ouch!).  I guess for some people one number is the same as another.  I don't keep track, at all, but it can happen that specific versions get flagged and accepted as classics, as YS mentioned, then demand plays out however it does.

Mattcha's blog tends to look into popular tea versions, and not necessarily hold back from trying out more in-demand, higher cost versions, so I checked if he had mentioned these, and he did earlier in the year, in February:  2001 Teas We Like Iron Zhongcha: An Oil Slick of an Aged Puerh!

That says more about a tea that is like the 8653 but different, and then also compares it to the Teas We Like 2001 8653 version.  He said this about the pricing and availability:

Vs 2001 Xiaguan 8653 Iron Cake from Teas We Like.  I got a few of these cakes when offered for $275.00 for 350g cake. They stopped offering them after only a few months likly due to increased prices to restock? These are very different in almost every way except that they are iron pressed cakes.  The contrast is an interesting comparison.  I don’t think I would have guessed the 2001 Iron Zhongcha to be the 8653 iron cake… it lacks some kind of Xiaguan quality… mainly the smoky bitterness and crotchety crankiness… it just really doesn’t feel like it at all.  

The 2001 Xiaguan 8653 has a much more rich, condensed, flavourful, complex, and powerful taste.  The 2001 Xiaguan 8653 that Teas We Like sold is still not fully aged out so a bit harsh however achieving a nice balance between maintaining its power, concentration and essence while still moving the aging along.  Still ends very bitter.  This 2001 Iron Zhongcha is dry Malaysian stored, the dry storage is really quite nice on this one and is pretty aged out already with still that initial power in the first few infusions with which could still be built upon...

Too much to unpack, but interesting that he comments that 21 years of Taiwan storage left the 8653 "still not fully aged out so a bit harsh."  It's an iron cake, so pressed that much tighter, which would slow the transition a little.  This cake I just tried included next to no bitterness, so it at least seems possible that this version, which is 5 years younger, may have age transitioned that much faster.  

The heat and humidity level in Bangkok is no joke; it's a cool day now, during the rainy season, but it's 91 F according to a notice on my laptop, 33 C per my phone app, with the humidity at 64%, which means something else at that temperature than when it's in the 70s (mid 20s C).  Fungus absolutely thrives here, to the extent that buildings grow black streaks of it, and books mold in normal indoor conditions.  If your cat scratches you that might result in a fungal infection, although I'm 1 for about 100 in happening; I get marked up all the time, and have only had one. 

20 years just isn't there yet for teas benefitting most from a long aging cycle, at least not related to the change process leveling off.  So the decade-ish old drier stored teas I own might not only be partly ruined by transitioning in the wrong form, they may be 20 more years from a good, relatively final aged form.

None of this maps directly to what I experienced, or offers a clear good guess as to what this tea will be like in another half dozen years.  Too many variables enter in, like difference between production years, and storage input.  It's still interesting considering related ideas, product offerings, and accounts of  experiences.