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2017 Wawee Tea sheng left, in all photos, Chawang Shop 2016 Bada right |
First off, why this comparison? At first I was going to just try the Thai version, seemingly an older version related to a new one I've just reviewed, but then it seemed likely I'd have a lot more to say about how I couldn't completely judge potential for a version in the middle of fermentation transition, 6 years old, but probably fully changed over at 15 (given that it's warm and humid in Thailand). I could still judge the pleasantness right now, and it would be fine in relation to that, but in a sense the potential further change could seem the main story.
Then I was going to just drink a normal tea I already had; my energy level can feel too low for the extra hour of tasting and writing on the weekend, which can easily stretch into two hours. In another post I'd mentioned that I was going to try to clear through samples and extra bits of tea, last pieces of sheng cakes, so I picked one out for that, a 2016 Bada version from Chawang Shop. Then it occurred to me that it could be interesting comparing them, guessing about transition process completeness and further potential at the same time.
I've already reviewed a 2014 Wawee Tea Thai sheng in this review post (with more on their teas on their website, or background in a FB page). This one is a "Pitakvavee series" version (versus the earlier a "Thai hero" series), a spring 2017 tea, identified as gushu material. To be clear they sent this to try along with the 2023 version that I ordered (many thanks for that!). I bought two 200 gram cakes of that new sheng, to have a standard amount to drink.
There must be some general Bada area character to consider, then also whether that matched it or not, and more to cover about how good the tea was originally. Referring back to the earlier related review would only be so helpful; what did I know of judging sheng versions four years ago when I bought this (or now, really). There were some Steepster impressions of it, since Steepster was active back then. It wasn't expensive, for what that is worth, but pricing doesn't always tie directly to quality level.
I can add that it has spent the last years since that review time in quite warm and humid conditions, starting off being stored dry in Kunming, so I suppose that's a non-optimum storage input pattern, moving from dry early on to hot and wet. I doubt there will be much of a clear story to tell here anyway, but at least it can work around saying that this Thai tea is interesting but that another half dozen years would tell more of its story. Spoiler: that's more or less the main conclusion.
I would guess that the Thai version will still be intense, losing bitterness, but that aspect won't be gone, with floral range flavor aspects switching over, with the warm tones not as established as they would be later. So in-between.
The last Chawang Shop cake I finished, from the same time period, but from Mengsong, had a bit of wood flavor character developing, which I took to not be ideal. I don't know what that means though, what inputs lead to that, and if it really is always negative or not. I've tried versions of moderate quality sheng that transition to taste quite woody after 15 years or so, and those tend to lose a lot of body feel and intensity too, along with flavor complexity, so they move on to warm tones but not a lot of other range that works well as a set. We'll see.
Review:
It's interesting how much darker the Bada version is. I'm not carefully storing these teas in terms of controlling conditions; they stay in one of three storage boxes that all get opened way too frequently. It's hot and humid here, about 70% humidity a lot of the time, more like 80% lately during the rainy season, and never below 60 in the drier times. This was stored in a thin ziplock style bag to offset the impact of opening and closing that box so much, too much air contact, but it surely still had too much exposure to air.
Wawee Tea 2017 sheng: too light to judge; I skipped using a rinse, and that's how that tends to go. Warm tones are pleasant; this has shifted over quite a bit to that range. It had to be stored in Thailand, but there is plenty of local variation possible related to being in a hilly area further North; it had to be cooler and probably slightly drier than in Bangkok.
Bada 2016: this is better than I expected; warm tones move towards a nice aromatic spice range. Fermentation is much more progressed than for the other, probably related as much or more to conditions as that extra year. Let's do the flavor list part next round.
Wawee, second infusion: interesting! There is a lot going on in this experience, and in a sense it's not all an integrated set, since it does taste like it's in the middle of transitioning from one thing to another. Floral range has mostly shifted to other warmer tones; it's not even expressing much for warmer tone floral range. Heavy and warm mineral is a strong base, and the rest is as close to woody as anything else. It covers some spice range too, just not much dried fruit, at this point. The feel makes it more balanced and appealing; it has good richness and structure. Bitterness has largely transitioned but not completely.
Bada: this still includes some green wood flavor, which I would expect to keep transitioning, but a lot of the range has shifted to warmer spice. A very different warm mineral tone stands out, slightly warmer, and it's paired with a different range of mouthfeel. The other tea feels softer, a bit "rounder," and this includes a dry feel that extends to the edges of your mouth, especially the rear-middle edges of your tongue. That's odd, given that it's seeming a good bit more fermented, that it includes a little more of that young-range challenging structure. It's related to astringency, but not so similar to young sheng astringency.
Wawee, third infusion: I'm feeling these teas a bit already; odd for not being very far through yet. It's strange how different the leaf color is, how this Thai version isn't so different than a young tea, and the other is pretty far along for turning brown. They're both about half-way through full fermentation, with this one slightly behind. This Wawee tea is maocha, never pressed, which I would expect to cause it to transition faster, but didn't seem to.
The range of aspects seems to integrate better this round; the experience is pleasant. I'm really not getting far with unpacking warm tones, splitting apart what I mean by that. Warm base mineral is one part, and the more aromatic range is perhaps closer to cedar wood than anything else. There might be a tipping point past which warmer tones dominate, and this might be not quite there yet. Then people also speak of a quiet "teen years" effect, when the change-over is at an awkward stage, and the tea seems quieter or less intense than it will earlier or later. I would guess they typically mean a range even after lighter tones give way to heavier ones.
Bada: flavors are definitely warmer for this tea, but then it gets complicated how feel compares. There is still a trace more bitterness, even for being further transitioned, and a hint of dryness that goes along with the astringency structure. I suppose I like this better for the fermentation level being that much further on; the character is more interesting. Maybe in a sense both of these need another 6 or 7 years to show what they might become, and unless someone could really judge interim period patterns it wouldn't help trying them like this to indicate what that would be like.
But then of course it's still possible to compare them to preference at present; anyone could do that, with any degree of prior exposure, or none. In re-trying the Thai version it's interesting how a warm mineral tone stands out, along the lines of how gun metal smells (which I guess would also relate to preservative oil, but that complicates things). This other version includes warm mineral tone, more like slickrock, but that seeming to couple with a slightly edgier and drier astringency changes the experience.
Wawee 4: I'll try a faster brewed round; why not? This is evolving positively; a light note hints a little towards citrus. Even brewed light a rich and silky feel stands out. Earlier on that wood tone included a almost musty range, like balsa wood, which I described as more like cedar in overall effect, and that has evolved to seem a little cleaner and brighter. This is pleasant, but I get it why it's normal to drink either well-aged sheng, at 15 years or more, or within the first 3 or 4 years, when that limited transition suits a certain starting point.
Bada: there seems to be a flavor description I'm missing here, or maybe a pair or range. It would seem to relate to unfamiliar spice range, one of the many inputs that make up an intriguing and powerful impression when you walk by a Chinatown spice shop. I guess it could be as straightforward as including camphor?
As a set of inputs it might be a warm, mineral intensive tone paired with a unique dried fruit range, the latter maybe not far off the dried bael fruit Thais drink as a tisane. This might taste like an age-transitioned spice input, so in the range of something I'm unfamiliar with that has been transitioned by hanging around for quite awhile. Camphor does seem to be a part of that, but only one part.
Wawee 5: I'll go a little longer for infusion time but that should just draw out warmer tones and feel more. And I suppose it does, trying it. I've not mentioned sweetness level for these; it's not a gap, but it doesn't stand out either. At this point for this version how well it all balances stands out, and a rich feel, with a slightly dry or musty flavor input offsetting that a little, just not as heavy as that had been. It will surely be nicer when green wood tone changes over with a few more years of age, but it's not unpleasant to experience now.
Bada: some of that feel structure and complex warm-tone flavor reminds me of how much more challenging sheng versions tend to come across in this aged range. If this was a Dayi or Xiaguan version it would be hard to relate to at this age and fermentation level, very structured and intense, and I'd be flagging some of that feel and flavor range as indications that it might soften and develop, in another ten years. This you can drink now. Even though it wouldn't be in the most natural optimum yet in another couple of years slightly more warming and softening could make this even more pleasant, making it seem more integrated, as a 9 year old tea (or 9 1/2 maybe).
Later infusions: I tried a few more rounds in the afternoon, after a long break. Maybe the teas change a little with some rest but I think perspective can shift a little, mostly interpretation, just from the reset.
It's hard to pin down to a specific aspect but overall integration and balance of the Wawee tea is nice, tied to a mix of flavors and fullness of feel, but beyond all of it. Depth is good, and there is a warm and sweet tone that grounds the rest and ties it together. Bitterness has almost entirely evolved out of this tea, compared to any level that must have been present over the first 3 or 4 years, but a slight remnant remains. A green flavor range tone also hangs in there; that must have linked to much more pronounced floral range earlier on, now hard to place. It's pleasant, even though this isn't the most natural age and fermentation level range for drinking this particular tea.
Something along the lines of camphor does seem to be ramping up in this other version, and more than that deeper and warmer tones just start in to how wet aged teas come across. It's like a wet slate / basement range flavor, evolving, but only there in a trace just yet. It's interesting how one of these teas is hinting at what will come and the other still mostly vaguely referencing back to what it had changed from.
It's also interesting how a full and rich but soft feel is present in the Thai version, which is far less fermented (relatively), with the Bada tea a bit more structured, and even a little dry. Warm to actually dark-toned mineral stands out, tying to that feel, extending as the main aftertaste experience. The corresponding range in the other is probably closer to green wood, and lighter mineral range, in the sense of a brighter tone (towards limestone versus slate) and in intensity. Base mineral tones are only a minor contributing aspect in the Wawee Thai tea and a main part of the experience for the Bada version.
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not a lot of color difference but the Wawee is lighter (left) |
Conclusions:
Which is better, which has more aging potential? Hard for me to say. It's odd how both seemed to be in different places in a transition divide, with the Thai tea a bit prior to warming tones change-over and the Yunnan Bada version just after that main shift.
In many cases people criticize some sheng versions as not having great potential to age, and to some extent I think I can relate to what that aspect set seems like between new versions and those aged for only 2 or 3 years, but I tend to not drink that many teas at the midway point like this. These teas must have had a good bit more intensity when younger, maybe stopping short of seeming challenging, even as 3 year old versions. I first reviewed this Bada tea as a 3 year old version; it was ok to drink then. It's possible that this Bada version has more potential to carry over intensity and complexity to a 15 year, relatively more complete aged form. That isn't necessarily better, if the character of the other is lighter but still more pleasant, in that form.
Some sheng just fades away, leaving behind the impression of full feel, with flavors largely evaporated, and I would guess neither of these would go there, but that's just a guess. This Thai version may be light on intensity and complexity in another 8 years but it won't be completely faded, I don't think. Some sheng versions can quiet down a lot within the first 7 or 8 years, especially if they start out sweet, floral or fruity, with some bitterness and feel structure, but in general quite approachable.
The Thai sheng from Aphiwat may be a good example of this; it's still pleasant in a different way as a one year old version (the one from the year before, 2022, which of course isn't identical to this year's), but I'd expect within two more years, three in total, it would be as well to drink that tea. The 2023 Wawee Tea sheng version is a little more challenging now, not as pleasant to experience new, with a good bit more feel structure (but not more bitterness; they might be more even there). I would expect it to retain more intensity through this middle-age period range, even though I also think it will probably be great as a 2 to 4 year old version, and maybe even optimum then, although that depends on preference.
I can kind of relate to some appeal of sheng versions in this middle of aging transition range but in general I wouldn't make it a point to drink sheng like this. Maybe for people who are put off by the bitterness and intensity of young range it could make more sense. Then if budget is no issue, and the richer and warmer toned flavors of aged sheng seems more appealing, moving on to drinking 15 year old versions would seem more natural. Heavier basement sort of flavors might be off-putting, but there is plenty of range of storage input options beyond bone-dry Kunming storage, that preserves tea and can give it an odd slightly sour wood or cardboard flavor, and Bangkok or Malaysia environment storage that rapid ages them towards heavier flavors.
I've only mentioned it in passing but these are mild teas compared to a lot of factory range, that need a dozen years of aging to be approachable at all, to soften a bit. I wouldn't expect either to be overly intense with twice as long to age, 7 more years, but complexity and character might still be quite nice. Bangkok storage is probably better for teas that are less refined and subtle though, better for moving a challenging tea that really typically needs 30 years to fully transition to already ok to drink under 20.
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