2007 8281 Yellow Label Mengku sheng pu'er, compared with 8891

it's like visiting an aunt and uncle there, even though I'm not that much younger

I'm reviewing a tea sample the owners of my favorite Bangkok Chinatown tea shop, Jip Eu, gave to me when I last visited them.  It's a little unconventional that we tried that tea there during that visit, so I'm writing about it again, based on a much closer form of review.  It was nice of them, to give me more to also try later, and perhaps wise of them to get that impression documented in a tea blog, just by handing over a sample.

It's a little odd, but my impression of it changed.  I was fasting that day (the first day of 5), and talking quite a bit instead of focusing in, so two things changed.  Three, really; I also brew tea for myself differently, because I based infusion timing each round on how I liked the last round.  My water source is probably also different (filtered local tap water, but the filtration must vary).

I don't have a listing or site description to provide, under the circumstances.  Jip Eu is on Facebook here, and they're on Shopee, for people online shopping within Thailand (maybe easier to find as "Three Shell Tea").  I looked up online listings, and two different vendors sell this for two completely different price points (the 2007 version, probably the same tea, although I guess this could be sold in different batch numbers, so maybe not identical).  Here is one of them, listed by Crafted Leaf Tea:

2007 Yellow label Raw Puerh - Iron Cake

Tea Bush : Grade 1 Mengku large-leaf tea bush species

Made from supreme old tree Mengku material, this is a high quality raw puerh from a village in the Brown Mount. region. After 13 years of aging this cake has enter its mature stage, most of the strong bitterness & fresh fruitiness of raw puerh has turn into a mature taste crafted by time.  Comparing with our 2003 Premium Yiwu Private Collection Raw Puerh - Chimney. It features less smokiness but with a very well balance of sweetness of ripe puerh and pinewood & mineral bitterness, followed by a lingering light caramel aftertaste. The aroma lingers wonderfully in the throat. After about seven or eight steeps, the taste becomes more tender and mild, and starts to show a light, mellow fruity fragrance.

So they're saying that it's a Mengku, Lincang region tea.  Google's AI input and another listing agree this was made by the Kunming Tea Factory for CNNP release (Zhong Cha).

This second "Dragon Tea House" listing sells this cake for $40, while the other vendor, Crafted Leaf Tea, sells 50 grams for $22.  What should we make of that?  I'll spare you the idle speculation, beyond this summary.  Maybe one isn't "real," maybe one is overpriced, maybe there are other factors.  $40 for a 19 year old standard producer tea does seem low.  This was selling for closer to that than whatever $22 for 50 grams works out to (nearly 50 cents a gram?  come on.).

This other 19 year old CNNP cake is pressed as a 500 gram version, now listing for $104 through Yunnan Sourcing, where I bought it awhile back.  I first reviewed that in 2019 here, seven years ago, and don't seem to have any newer comparison use review to check in on.  People who have been following Yunnan Sourcing for a long time, and drink sheng pu'er, probably have already bought this cake; somehow it became the standard entry point item to try out way earlier on. 

Reviewing tea labels:  this could be a step too far, but in looking at the three labels of the three teas presented as generally the same they don't match.  The Dragon Leaf version has a different bottom producer identifier name, and the yellow mark in the center is slightly offset (although the Crafted Leaf page includes pictures of both types of differently marked labels; strange).  Make of it what you will; it's not intended as evidence of any indirect claim.  Per the owners of this shop they bought a good bit of this tea back in 2007 from a producer outlet when it came out, which on the face of it sounds reliable.  Who knows though.

the Jip Eu cake label

Crafted Leaf Tea version

Dragon Tea House version (note the "product of") section

Review:

8281 left (my cats just broke one of the plainer cups I use most often; not helpful)

8281 Kunming / CNNP 2007:  it's interesting that this is much darker initially, both the leaves and the infusion.  They're both 2007 versions, but the other spent half its time in Kunming, in relatively dry and cool storage, and this tea version came to Bangkok back when it was produced, bought by the shop owners back then.  It has been stored hot and humid.

Flavors are heavy, of course.  It's relatively clean though.  Beyond the heavy mineral base a pine note stands out, and some medicinal herb tone.  Feel has a nice thickness already, and it has only been one short infusion, after a short rinse.  There may be brighter and sweeter spice that will evolve, or maybe even a touch of dried fruit, but I think this will be easier to read next round.

8891:  it is lighter in flavor range, but this has transitioned pretty far along already.  It's not how I remember it.  There could be a faint hint of smoke-like flavor, but beyond the slightly lighter mineral it tastes something like aged bamboo might.  It's not exactly woody, but pretty close to that.  Sweetness is decent; it gives it balance.  There's just a hint of sourness at the finish, which doesn't ruin the effect for me, but I suppose it's not mostly positive.  Going back and tasting the other after this, the same first round, a bit more root spice stands out in that in contrast, towards root beer, or sassafras.  

I'm not sure why but I'm feeling these teas after the first round.  I took a week of drinking a lot less during a 5 day fast, and never really increased back to my earlier level in the week after, so my caffeine tolerance may be low.

the leaf and liquid color difference is noticeable

8281 #2:  these brewed for about 15 seconds, or maybe slightly over, which is a fairly long infusion for a high proportion and strong teas like these.

It's interesting how heavy and strong this flavor profile is, with it being clean at the same time.  This might turn into pretty good tea with another half a dozen years to finish the full fermentation transition process, which is really far along now, maybe equivalent to over 30 years in cooler and drier storage.

Heavy flavors could either be seen as a selling point or a negative, depending on preference.  Quite heavy mineral tone stands out.  It's strong enough that you need to "taste past it" to identify the rest.  One part of the remaining flavor is like a cured tree bark tone (so woody in a completely different sense than the other tea).  Spice range is still present; it links with that, or overlaps, some range of root spice.  Less of the more forward, bright, dry pine note is present, but it's still there, just in a different balance.  Other complexity probably still does relate to medicinal herb range, ginseng and such, but it's all hard to place, integrating with or being overshadowed by the rest.

8891:  complexity is good in this; there's a good bit going on (which is all relative, of course).  And the tone is lighter, which works well.  That hint of sourness at the end is a little more pervasive now.  I don't necessarily see it as a flaw, but if it was swapped out for something else the tea could be much more exceptional.  It seems to connect with a dryness that you feel in the center of your tongue as you drink it, and more just after you swallow.  

I remember this as a heavier and rougher edged tea.  It has mellowed.  The heaviness of flavor tones fading could easily relate to my judgment changing, or my general perspective.  Tasting any tea in combination with another also shifts things; that becomes a fixed baseline, adding a bias for what is a heavy level of any one input, or placing different aspects differently in comparison.

At this point I like the 8281 better, but this early sourness and dryness may be something that evolves out of this version over a few infusions, so it seems too early for that kind of judgment.  I should mention here that some claim that dry storage is "bad" for a tea, not for just slowing down transition pace, but also for imparting a slight sour note to teas.  I never really knew if that holds up, oddly, even though I've tried a good bit of dry stored pu'er.  Storage that is too wet (humid) is said to impart either a mustiness or overly heavy tones to a tea, or maybe both.  Then people talking about relative optimums tends to make for a complicated subject.

8281 #3:  brewing this faster, at 10 seconds, and being a couple of infusions in really lets this tea shine.  The flavor aspects I've been talking about (pine, heavy mineral tones, limited root spice, other medicinal spice) haven't changed, but the balance does shift completely.  Feel is still good, and pleasant aftertaste carries over.  Sweetness level is nice.  It works.  Brewed a bit stronger it probably wouldn't; this tea is pretty intense.

8891:  this also balances the best it has yet.  The bamboo woodiness seems to evolve to more of a sandalwood spice.  That one light sour range aspect is fading, or maybe a lighter infusion makes it seem to drop, but it's still present.  Feel is better.  

It's interesting tasting these and "looking for" the standard descriptors people often apply.  Do they taste nothing like betel nut (which could only be a guess on my part, not having tried that), or camphor?  Maybe the first (8281) does taste like betel nut, and the second like camphor.  Probably that second attribution is more grounded; there is an edge to this tea that kind of matches that.  The first seems to emphasize that light spice range all the more in comparison.

8281 #4:  I'm getting rocked by these teas.  Colors and color definition seems more vivid; it's affecting my vision.  Why didn't I put less tea in these gaiwans?  It's like a mental block, as if I can't.

This tea is really catchy, the way that a root spice stands out, with so much more going on beyond that.  Sweetness picks up, so the rootbeer like tone leans a little towards a dried fruit note input, but it's still really a sweeter range of spice input.

If flavors were a little heavier it would be too much, but for me that part is fine.  It's really clean, supported by great sweetness, rich feel, good balance, and pleasant aftertaste.  Maybe it would've been even better if it had been stored in a slightly cooler and drier place, and aged for 30 years instead of 19.  A decade of extra wait is a significant trade-off; you can't just move yourself through time to experience that.

8891:  that early sourness is losing its place in this tea, for the best.  It lacks some of smoothness and root spice complexity of the other, but a different form of lighter sandalwood sort of range spice is nice in this.  A light camphor edge has seemed to replace the sourness, definitely an improvement.  It might be even better after 4 more rounds, but it would be pushing it to drink just one more.  Let's go there; let's push it.

8281, #5:  I'm giving these more like 20 seconds to see them from a different perspective.  Heavier tones pick back up again; it's interesting how infusion strength varies perceived character like that.  And it's also handy, to be able to shift what you experience so easily.  It was better a little lighter.  That heavy mineral starts to come across almost like a charred tone, where is was part of a less prominent background context, less strong than the root spice, last round.

It's still not bad, not flawed, or too far out of balance, but it's better brewed lighter.

8891:  this version balances just fine brewed a little stronger.  The sourness didn't return; that did evolve out over early infusions, as I guessed might happen.  It might be slightly better than last round for being a little stronger.  It balances well.  One might expect the camphor effect to pick up, brewed stronger, but it's kind of the same, the flavors are just a little more intense, and the feel.  The other is smoother and richer, with this retaining a little dryness, just not in the same form as over the first few rounds, not as pronounced.  

If you drink the other right after this, while the aftertaste is still present, the contrast in it tasting so much more like spice really stands out.  Tried the other way that dryness stands out most in this, tasted right after the other.  It's not all that challenging or negative when you just drink this 8891, but in comparison it's more negative.  

Conclusions:

I tried a couple more rounds later and there wasn't more story to tell based on that.  Of course they didn't fade out and die within the first seven infusions.

I suppose that I like the 8281 more.  Could it be because it's more fermented, further along in aging transition?  Hard to say; that's not impossible.  The 8891 is lighter, smoother, and more balanced than I remember.  I may not have tried this for years.

Both are pretty decent.  I don't think these are what the Teas We Like curator vendor are probably looking for as the absolute best examples of aged sheng potential, but they're decent, and solid.  It doesn't help that I very rarely drink 20 year old range tea at this point; I mostly drink young sheng, within 3 or 4 years of being produced.  It's completely different in character.  It's interesting completing a 1500 word tea review without mentioning bitterness, for example.

What was missing, if these were reasonably well balanced, with pleasant flavor range, and not really expressing clear flaws, but I'm judging them to be good but not great?  Complexity was decent, and balance ok, but they both could've had a little more to offer.  That root spice range in the 8281 could've been more pronounced and spanned more interesting scope.  The 8891 had issues with dryness and light sourness early on, and then later evolved to be more pleasant, but it still mostly covered spice that wasn't so far removed from wood.  I think both will probably be better as 25 year old teas, that having plenty of intensity at this age is a good sign, so both have room to change positively, if only a little.  This 8891 might be fully age-transitioned at 30 years old, as this is going.

I hadn't planned to buy a cake of this but now I might.  As I mentioned I tried it once before, visiting that Chinatown shop, during a fast, on the first of 5 days off eating.  I didn't like it as much as this time.  It helps slowing things down and spending time with a tea, and brewing according to your own preference.  It helps having eaten.  Your sense of taste changes a lot more after 3 or 4 days of fasting, and you can smell the neighbors cooking dinner really far away, but just skipping breakfast changes things, a little.

This tea--the 8281--might be even better with a few more years to complete a transition, or a half dozen.  The 8891 is also much better than it was something like a half dozen years ago when I tried it last (maybe 3 or 4?  I lose track).  These are definitely not fading to not include much flavor intensity.  

To me this range, standard CNNP character, is one of three good examples of favorable and distinctive factory tea production, along with Dayi and Xiaguan.  Maybe people would typically prefer one of those over the others?  I really do like best-case outcome Xiaguan versions.  Or even the barnyard character of well-transitioned more standard range.  Many of their teas come across as rough-edged and basic but that flavor range is interesting.

there is a second cat over on the other side of the fence

Chawang Shop 2012 Mengku Daxueshan

darkening but not that far along

plain labeling, more how that used to go for commissioned teas

a little better look, but wet leaves tell more of the story

Two posts back I'd mentioned a Chawang Shop order set was down to two teas to try (I think it's really 3; the list isn't that long but I keep losing track).  They're all so interesting that I'm essentially reviewing every tea, not usually how that would work out.

Whether a vendor sends teas for review or if I buy them--which gets treated in much the same way, beyond mentioning that difference--I review what I like and what is interesting to me, whatever it makes sense to pass on.  This rounds out two earlier posts on semi-aged sheng, not exactly my favorite theme for sheng character related to what to drink but interesting to explore. 

The theme for purchasing versions was obvious enough: not only do I get to try teas at this middle state to experience where a transition would be I also get to keep checking that, and then drink some of it later when aged.  Eventually I really should purchase more of the versions that seemed to work out the best, but I'll see about that later.

I keep citing this to reference it myself

Review:

This version is nowhere near as well-preserved as that 2008 Yiwu brick had been; the aging is apparent in the color, even though it's 4 years younger.  But the rest of the experience is the thing.

just getting started; color seems to show limited age input

A thickness to the feel of the tea hits you just as fast as any of the flavor; that's nice.  Flavor range is perhaps a little subdued, as I've went on and on about for those last two posts, but for this being the first round and with expectations dialed down for where this is in an aging cycle it's just fine, plenty intense.  Aging related flavors are emerging, darker mineral tones, subtle dried fruit, what could be aromatic spice, or at least towards that.  Some of the warm supporting earthiness resembles roasted chestnut.  Bitterness hasn't completely transitioned away but this version of it is mild and soft, complimenting the rest.  Of course it will probably change in ways lots of people, and me, would see as positive over another few years but it's fine as it is.

All that is just a first impression; I'm not onto the second round yet.

On the second infusion wood tone picks up; in between green wood and a more cured version, or maybe spanning the two.  The flavor, thick feel, and aftertaste are all complex though; it's not a simple taste experience or at all limited to that range.  All that supporting flavor aspect list I mentioned shifted a bit too.  Warm mineral still serves as a base for the rest, and a trace of bitterness rounds out the experience, but a different subtle expression of dried fruit kicks in, and the flavor tied to roasted chestnut seemed to transition to that green and cured wood.  More cured hardwood, but there's a touch of vegetal character in this, surely some of the pre-transition range hanging in there.  The spice range isn't as pronounced as it could be but it's quite interesting and supports the rest well.

Those same aspects are all present on the third infusion but the balance of them has shifted.  Bitterness is fading already, and there wasn't much of it to drop out.  What remains kind of helps the rest of the balance, but I'd imagine it wouldn't hang in there through so much additional aging, at least not in the wetter and hotter environment the tea cake is in now.  Probably being in a dry and cool place allowed this to retain more youth than it otherwise would have; staying here for some years it might've already been gone, along with the more vegetal part of that wood range.

Wood is probably more of the flavor in this now; some of the rest just dialed back.  That pleasant, thick feel and notable aftertaste round out this experience nicely.  It's not nearly as subtle as those last three versions I'd just reviewed, across any of the dimensions.  I like the tea now but the potential is intriguing; it's not so much rough edges that would need to smooth out as interesting character change that might come up.

Maybe this will develop a lot of spice and fruit over 5 years and become wonderful; maybe wood will shift from green and cured hardwood to the latter along with tobacco flavors, and it won't be that interesting to me.  It doesn't seem likely it will fade to nothing given that intensity is this positive so late through the aging transition, but again that's just a guess, not based on all that much.  For it to be this interesting, positive in character, and pleasant now seems a great sign.


On the fourth infusion a pleasant spice range picks back up.  I'm guessing that slight changes in timing--that I'm not intentionally causing--are shifting how this comes across.  As a flash infusion the flavor range won't be the same as using a more standard 8 second or so version, or brewed longer.  There's lots to this feel and aftertaste range even though infusion time and strength is moderate.

Sweetness is nice in this; that's a part that I missed in those last three sheng versions, how that makes a tea balance.  Someone just commented on a Reddit post discussion about how no teas seem sweet to them, in relation to how sugar is sweet.  Of course it's a description for how different compounds come across in a similar way, mostly amino acids, per input from two very good sources.

That spice is in a different form now, closer to a mild and sweet root spice, where before it was more towards a warmer, earthier aromatic bark spice.  I'm up against personal limits in being more specific; I went through a very long phase of drinking quite varied tisanes, and odd versions of both came up, but I didn't retain those as a catalog of sense memories to refer back to.  Wood tones are dialed back now as well; instead of being dominant they balance with that spice.  It's nice how it's a quite different experience four rounds in.  Interesting and positive transitions and brewing a high number of pleasant infusions are both great signs for quality in tea, although I don't necessarily see the opposite as a clear indication of a flaw or of a lower quality version--it just varies.

I'll try this as a fast infusion to judge how that changes things, then try a longer one, and then 6 infusions in they cycle will be towards the latter half.

Brewed quite light doesn't change much (now on round 5).  Flavor intensity is still good; the thick feel and aftertaste don't change.  That root spice aspect could as easily be interpreted as including dried fruit now, but then that's also true of the last round, maybe just evolved a little further in this.  It would most similar to a dried longan, maybe; now what is that similar to in Western terms?  Dried pear is close enough, but dried longan really is closer.

I think I do feel teas more related to drinking them in a more quiet environment; the kids are out at a Mandarin lesson now (one of them; my daughter joins for a play session held at that local Chinese-Thai school).  It's the same school she attended pre-school at, Sitabur, which for Bangkok locals is not far from Sam Yan, kind of the middle of nowhere in an old part of town.  It's undergoing urban renewal, that area, although without violent crime as an issue at all, so the form of decay and renewal is different.  They don't do that here; they're not so into drugs, there's pick-pocketing and purse snatching but no mugging, and people usually only kill each other for personal reasons.


On round 6 I let the tea brew longer, more like 15 seconds, long enough to get a feel where that heads.  It doesn't change much but the feel thickens even more, and flavor experience shifts some.  Earthier range aspects stand out more; warm mineral, and back to the wood tones.  The milder fruit and root spice range gets crowded out a bit.  Since it would be natural to go with longer infusions from around this point on those factors would mix, and the character would change related to using that longer time, even if intensity level was maintained.

I'm not going to do notes on infusions up to 10 or so rounds though; this is long enough as it is, and how that plays out matters but the basic story is already told.  Some people feel that infusion count is critical to judging tea quality but I kind of don't; it's one factor that matches together with others related to that, but to me it doesn't work as a single clear marker.  I get it why people see it as such; the typical correspondence is there, and a tea brewing half as many positive rounds gives up a lot.  It would be normal for me to ramble on in another dozen sentences about how I see quality as a sum of different factors coming together, and positive overall balance, but I'll skip the detailed version of that this time.

still quite green, the wet leaves

2008 Yiwu leaves were further along, just moderately aged for 11 years old

I did drink a good number more infusions from this, and they did vary some.  That same underlying wood tone and very positive feel remained, into a really high infusion count (potential quality marker:  check).

Conclusions, other thoughts

Pretty good tea; I didn't mention that for value this seems fantastic (check that price; it's unbelievable).  Being at this age it's not as simple to sort out all the related factors (storage input versus original character, general quality level, typical location character, how it will be when more aged / fermented), but it's at least obvious that it's quite decent tea.

As far as fermentation level goes this seems to be slightly behind the two 2011 Tea Mania versions I just tried related to darkened leaf color and still having a bit of vegetal nature, close to on par with that 2008 Yiwu brick, but somehow it's more intense than all three.  I'll skip the part about saying more about how cool and dry Kunming storage location slowed the transition, since I've been going on about that.  The character works better as a result of not being overly subtle, also due to the pleasant thick feel, and appropriate levels of sweetness and bitterness.  I see it as having even more aging potential than those three, but then again that's a guess, and based more on intensity than a specific character difference, which I should be able to interpret.

Unlike in the case of the two semi-aged Tea Mania samples I just reviewed I own a 357 gram cake of this, so I can find out how it will be later, just by waiting.  Unlike with some other past semi-aged range sheng versions the good potential in this works well right now too.

I tried looking up notes on earlier reviews to see how the character might have changed but of course it would be impossible to extract out subjective interpretation from any account.  All the same there is no Steepster set of comments or review for that.  That brought up a couple of tangents I'll hold off on mentioning here since they connect better to another subject I've been writing about, about tea value and another version that's not similar but related in some ways.

Someone mentioned in a comment recently about appreciating a somewhat aged sheng related to being stored on the dry side and retaining a vegetal character.  That's what I keep talking about me looking forward to dropping out, right?  Hopefully how the subjective parts of these impressions fit together is already clear.  Someone else might really love this tea version just as it is and to me it shows great potential to improve a lot over the next few years, or 5.  I like it now but I think it will become much better, per my preference.

Kalani at her new school, the third day

Kalani at her new school, second day, adjusting fast

first day at a new school; rough seeing her go through that

Farmerleaf 2018 Mengku and Autumn Jing Mai gushu

I'm trying two samples sent along with a Farmerleaf order from not long ago.  To be clear only the second is presented as "gushu," with their naming as follows:

Spring 2018 Mengku Xiao Hu Sai

Autumn 2018 Jingmai Gushu


I bought a cake of Farmerleaf sheng in that order and reviewed a different Jing Mai sample of tea presented as a higher quality version, so this is tying up that cycle.


An autumn version tea should be less intense, and maybe slightly warmer in aspect tone, if what I've tried in the past carries over.  But I've not been through so many trials that all the typical patterns are clear just yet; it can be possible to include impressions only relating to coincidence across a limited sample size for aspect causation.  I'll add a Farmerleaf description here during editing, and do the tasting based on that much input.


Spring 2018 Xiao Hu Sai ($95 for 357 gram cake)


Xiao Hu Sai is located on the western mountain range of Mengku area. This village has the largest old tea gardens in Mengku. They grow between 1700 and 2000m of altitude. They are planted in inequal density and grow in open fields...

Xiao Hu Sai tea has a very good thickness and a delicate fragrance, which, unlike most other mengku teas, is not high-pitched but rather reveals itself slowly as the session goes. This is a tea enjoyed for its mouthfeel, heavy Huigan and calming Qi. Very brewable, it features a light bitterness which changes fast into sweetness. If you like Yiwu teas, you will very likely love this one!

Autumn 2018 Jingmai Gushu  (357 gram cake selling for 80 USD)


We sourced leaves from the ancient tea gardens that surround Jingmai village (Mang Guo, Weng Bo and some Da Ping Zhang gardens). Due to the good weather, the harvest was made at the beginning of the growth cycle, when the flushes are still tender. Therefore, we could source 1 bud/2 leaves and avoided having too much yellow flakes in the tea, this is why this cake has more buds than what is common in Autumn.

As usual, this Autumn tea has a good fragrance typical of the season. A medium-light body and good sweetness. It is more astringent than the Spring harvest and has a light bitterness.


Odd, it didn't strike me as very astringent, although the feel did have an unusual character to it, a dryness.

Review

Mengku left, Jing Mai right

Mengku Xiao Hu Sai:  there's a really catchy fruity aspect.  It's in between a conventional fruit (a fruity or light version of one, something like peach or pineapple), a mixed artificial range like Froot Loops, and a mild and sweet spice instead.  For liking fruitier teas this really works for me.  Mineral rounds that out nicely, and a touch of bitterness.  The feel and structure seem decent too, although I'm still working from a limited strength infusion.  It's a bit juicy as feel goes, with some fullness, with pretty good aftertaste experience for a tea just getting started.


Autumn Jing Mai Gushu:  quite different; this is warmer in tone, still relatively soft and a bit subtle, but with a lot more mineral range than the other.  Mineral is not only intense but complex; it seems to span a lighter flint / limestone mineral range and extend into a warmer dark clay / Southwestern US sandstone range.  There's still some sweetness, and flavor complexity extends into a bit of floral range, which leans towards fruit, but with fruit essentially nonexistent in comparison with the other tea's level.  Both teas will probably show more of their real nature next round and evolve some after.

Second infusion

Mengku:  to me that flavor set is really catchy, although I guess maybe not everyone would even like it.  Fruitiness has dropped off a little already, moving towards a mild vegetal range, but it's still fruity.  The vegetal range includes a green-wood character and then some mild leaf vegetable flavor beyond that, maybe bok-choy.  It's pleasant but a little less catchy, hinting a little towards tartness or sourness in line with how green wood would taste, just not exactly tart or sour.

The way the feel comes across as "juicy" is nice, if that seems to mean anything.  I suppose it gives up some degree of structure for that, since it's a variation of being lightly textured, just in an unusual way.  Bitterness and sweetness round out the flavor positively, and again the aftertaste is reasonably well pronounced.  I wouldn't say it's "extended" but enough to add a little depth to the experience.


Jing Mai:  vegetal range picks up in this too, again towards green wood, and floral tone, but with that warm and complex mineral and a slightly higher degree of bitterness filling in beyond that, versus a fruit and lighter vegetable tone in the other.  This feel is quite different, a bit more structured.  In a slightly different form I'd describe it as dryness but as presented here it's just a tenseness across your tongue and mouth, which remains long after drinking it.  The actual flavor is a bit subtle so the feel remains more as an aftertaste than the actual flavor; that's different.  The mineral is so pronounced I could relate to someone interpreting that as including metal range as well.

Third infusion

Mengku:  not transitioning a lot, but the balance of those aspects does keep shifting.  It works well at this stage.  I bought a Yunnan Sourcing tea that I just reviewed, a  2017 "He Bian Zhai" Wild Arbor cake, that this reminds me of in some ways.  The feel is juicy or slightly sappy in a similar way, not structured in the normal sense but full.  The flavor isn't so different either.  That may be slightly more straight-vegetal, more along a wood and green-wood line, so this might work slightly better for adding that other depth.  It's probably more what I expected from that tea, although again the two are similar.  This still includes a hint of fruit and spice, even though it's more in the vegetal range now, which gives it a nice complexity.  I could imagine people really liking this or not liking it; it's different enough that it would just depend on a link to individual preference.


Jing Mai:  the intensity that I'd expect from a gushu and subtlety that I'd expect from an autumn tea play out in this version, kind of as one might expect.  It has a depth to it, a lot of mineral, and fullness of feel that extend relatively far.  On the other hand the flavor intensity, feel structure, and aftertaste are all limited.  It would be a lot brighter in character in a spring version, I think; floral would pick up and feel would have more of an edge to it, while retaining all the depth in this.

The warmth of the flavor tones kind of works for me.  That part might be extending from warm mineral to include something like tree bark instead, or along with it.  Tree bark itself can have a lot of different types of character, depending on the tree and it's condition, and this is more how slightly damp and aged firewood comes across, with a warmth, sweetness, and slightly cured character.  The other tea is also woody but in a completely different sense, more along the lines of green wood, maybe extending a little into a dry cured hardwood, but more the wood part of a cherry or hickory.  Both of these tea characters work but in different ways.

Fourth infusion

I'd been letting the infusion times run for closer to 10 seconds than to 5, a bit heavy given the proportion (the typical gaiwan 3/4ths full with leaves wetted), so I'll try a round brewed faster, still around 5 seconds for the pouring taking time.


Mengku:  this works better that little bit lighter, and it would still be fine pushing the tempo even faster, using closer to a flash infusion.  In a lot of cases that's used due to needing to moderate bitterness or astringency but in this case the flavor is plenty intense enough as it is, and the feel character doesn't necessarily dilute, so lighter is just better, even though both versions are drinkable. 

It has moved off of tasting a lot like Froot Loops but there is still a touch of that.  To me the sappy, juicy feel really works.  The green wood flavor has pushed a little into a resinous range, a bit like pine tree pitch, like the smell of rosin on a violin bow, I'd expect (although that's not exactly familiar to me).  It's not all that piney, there is just a hint of that. 


Jing Mai:  again for this tea being prepared light is better.  It had been intense in flavor and the feel was already full, so although again there wasn't bitterness level or astringency to work around it has decent intensity.  I might've been interpreted as just saying the opposite but I was talking more about a specific range.  That mineral specific earthy / metal component extends even further to seem to tie to a feel structure, especially given this is brewed so lightly, maybe now coming across as a hint of dryness.

I'm wondering how these teas would age but that I really don't know, and given that I'm working with samples I won't find out.  I've got enough other sheng around to check on transition patterns that I really don't feel regret about that.  Maybe I'd regret it more if I was more certain that either would improve a lot at some point with more age.  They both have plenty of intensity for enjoying aspects at this level and nature but swapping some out to achieve character change might have them come across as thin.  Or is it just a myth that teas need to be bitter, astringent, and over-bearing in intensity level to age well?  I'll know better in another decade; I'll get back to you.

Fifth infusion

This will probably be it for notes, even though these would easily go another 5 rounds, probably more.  I have a couple other things to do online and then in real life.


Mengku:  I've said enough about this tea that "complex" probably comes across as a description, but really the character seems simple and unified, just with depth over a couple of aspect type ranges.  The flavor is pleasant and the feel works.

It's not completely different in style than the Yunnan Sourcing  "He Bian Zhai" Wild Arbor Cake I mentioned.  I'm not sure that relates to this being "wild" in origin.  Tea grown more naturally tends to be more pronounced in flavor, milder in feel structure, giving up some overall intensity for more unique character.  Maybe that's the cause for this outcome too or maybe not.


Jing Mai:  Bitterness might be picking up just a little, but it's still at a level that just gives the tea balance.  Often that's a transition that occurs in later rounds, and it might be a lot more pronounced in two or three more infusions.  Oddly sometimes it's not even related to using longer infusion times to draw it out; whatever compounds tie to that impression can ramp up without that.  Which to me is counter-intuitive.  Caffeine is a compound that causes bitterness in tea and we know from studies of infusion rates that it extracts out relatively fast in the earlier infusions, and diminishes later, so that effect from that compound alone would cause the tea to be less bitter in later rounds.  We'd need to call in a tea geek expert to get more input on this; I just notice what I taste.

Feel still works well, in that form described, and aftertaste is more pronounced in this tea version.

Conclusions; about sourcing and value in mid-range priced sheng

Which is "better"?  Of course that depends on preference.  The Mengku version seems more unique, related to unusual flavor and feel.  The Jing Mai strikes an unusual balance for being intense in some ways but still soft and moderate in character in others.

Both seem like decent tea.  Neither seems to show the character appeal or markers for well above average quality tea, but both are pleasant and positive in their own way.  As an example sometimes transitioning a good bit across rounds can be regarded as a sign of a better tea (sheng), or overall intensity can be, or specific aspects like pronounced aftertaste, or a certain range of mineral component.

I only checked the vendor description and pricing after writing all the prior notes and description and it's all more or less what I'd expect.  The Mengku tea lists for $95, the autumn gushu for $80, both for full-sized 357 gram cakes.  I wouldn't be surprised if both are slightly better teas than Farmerleaf tended to produce 2 or 3 years ago.  If memory serves that price is 50% higher than their standard range back then, maybe because of that, and probably also because they've built up following and demand.

It just is what it is; you can't easily find teas that are equivalent for less either.  I've been trying versions from Yunnan Sourcing, Crimson Lotus, and Bitterleaf (some--not that many from each) and there are different trade-offs involved with buying cakes down in the $40-some range instead.  Vendors use lower grade material for blends to achieve that lower price level, combining inputs with slight flaws or limitations that balance well together, and you give up distinctiveness in character.  Autumn teas cost less, and are seen as less desirable, and reputable vendors usually would say when that's what a tea is, as in this case.

Mind you I still think Farmerleaf sells good tea at fair prices.  They probably are sourcing slightly better (and costlier) material now, and fine-tuning processing.  When I started reviewing their teas I didn't have the same baseline for comparison, and memory of versions from 2 or 3 years back only goes so far, even with reviews to go on, so all that is a bit speculative on my part.


It is possible to buy better, narrower material origin tea for less but it's not generally how that goes.  I just reviewed King Tea Mall versions that are on par with these, and also roughly equivalent in cost, so that doesn't work an example.  Only one source like that comes to mind.  I probably shouldn't say what it is because it's bad form in reviewing, and I want to order more teas from that vendor at some point, to stock up on some of their cakes, and getting the word out could jinx that.  I'll mention it anyway:  this works as an example, Teamania's Lucky Bee Yiwu (this tea the 2017 version, but maybe I've only tried the 2016).


I just bought a similar range $79 cake from Farmerleaf these sample came with, and liked it, reviewed here, but due to my budget being limited I won't be repeating that type of purchase pattern regularly.  Converted to sourcing advice, Farmerleaf is good about offering moderate cost samples and spans such a broad range of teas (including nice Dian Hong, Yunnan black tea, like this one) that it would make sense to try a dozen versions of what they sell first as samples, and then decide if any of those match preference enough to buy a cake.  It's a low cost approach that lets you evaluate the value proposition.


Related to that, I sent teas to a friend / acquaintance from Farmerleaf last year.  I'd kind of meant to go back and order the same for myself but never got to it.  This graphic shows that order:

Those particular tea versions are inexpensive due to mostly being black teas (Dian Hong, which either just means Yunnan black tea or can imply a style, with sun-dried versions often referred to as Shai Hong instead).  Pretty much all those teas are sold out, so the same approach--for black teas--would only be possible between when more 2019 versions are listed.

I've been helping water the plants this hot season, keeping it green

my outdoor tasting station; the shade makes it feel cooler than it is

the crows aren't all that concerned about this make-shift scarecrow

Yunnan Sourcing 2017 "He Bian Zhai" Wild Arbor sheng pu'er

Back to reviews!  Again, since I just posted about teas I just bought in Shenzen first, but I made these notes the day before those.  I ordered these Yunnan Sourcing teas awhile back, with this one recommended by a few people.  A YS site description says what it is, with the growing location a main point, along with some description of what they mean by "wild arbor:"


Entirely wild arbor tea from early spring 2017! Tea leaves taken from 30 to 80 years old tea trees growing in Xi Ban Shan area just southwest from Bingdao in the county of Mengku, Lincang. Full and stout one leaf to one bud ratio tea leaves. He Bian Zhai (Riverside Village) tea has been growing wild for decades and is picked by local families in the village.  Our friend Mr. Duan, oversees the picking and processing of this lovely tea.  No pesticides or chemical fertilizers are used in the production of this tea.

He Bian Zhai is a strong full-bodied tea that is a tea that I consider to be much better than it's price tag.  The taste is thick and vegetal with a sweet almost syrup-like body...


So there's that.  I'll skip the rambling on about different locations, growing conditions, processing, and aging potential and just review the tea.  It's been around here for a couple of weeks but I'd expect it might pick up a little more flavor once it airs out some and adjusts to a higher local humidity, but I can say more later if it seems to have changed much later on.

It's Songkran in Thailand now, the traditional New Year, and hottest time of the year, just now 34 C / 93 F even though it's only 11 AM.  I'd expect it to change more over the longer term related to that heat and humidity, to transition quickly, to ferment faster, but for all I know it may change character a little in the short term too.

my tasting space, just a bit hot at this time of year

tasting while lightly dressed works in 35 C / 95 F degree weather

Those "cheap" sheng versions that I picked up in China had me considering whether or not all the dire warnings by vendors about contaminant laden teas might be accurate or not, or what the risk level would be.  I'm not nervous about it, and I would still drink the odd random tea, but it does seem like a good idea to drink a good percentage of teas that seem much more likely to be grown under more careful, positive conditions.  As this one is represented, as I believe that it was.

Review

just getting started

The first infusion I went fast on, trying it quite light before it really had a chance to get the leaves wet.  It already has an interesting flavor, with feel coming out a little too.  There is a thickness and sweetness to this version even prior to it infusing at normal strength.  Flavor leans a little towards spice, beyond the honey sweetness, warm and rich as young sheng goes.  I'll add more about that next round since it will develop.

It is interesting and pleasant, complex in a nice way, on the soft side with limited bitterness.  Tea from more natural growth plants does tend to turn out like this, per my experience, not as bitter and intense but unusual in flavor profile in ways that tend to be generally positive.  A version from Vietnam that strikes me as even more "local" in character I just tried, with a review in notes form, which explains further what that description would mean to me.

A flavor list won't really do the tea justice, but then in general those don't work well to pass on an impression.  It's woody, in a sense that spans a greener wood and an aged hardwood.  Honey-like sweetness joins that, and a hint towards spice that isn't pronounced enough to describe, maybe an aromatic version of a root spice.

From the sounds of that I should be adding floral or fruit description to it (with floral tones more common in sheng), in order to describe it positively, but it does balance and work without a lot of floral tone or other range.  The woodiness could alternatively be described as tree bark instead, but that's back to more of the same.  I'll try a shorter infusion now using fully saturated leaves and get a better sense of where this is going.

Really more of the same.  It's interesting the way that limited bitterness works out, with astringency that comes across as a sappy or resin-like feel, versus a more typical range seemingly tied to a stronger mineral tone.  It's a little like biting into a tree branch bud, the tip, the way a vegetal, slightly biting character comes across in that experience.  It's still soft, complex, and flavorful, nothing like trying a bitter and astringent version of relatively young sheng.  This tea is coming up on two years old now so it probably has softened a good bit, trading out some of that range for smoothness and different flavor range.  I suppose it could be the rare version of sheng that's best after 3 or 4 years, before it goes quieter due to aging, swapping out initial intensity for other character.

I say "rare" but that's an interpretation based on both limited personal background and also based on individual preference.  I've been drinking a good bit of sheng for a year and a half but that's still just getting started.  As further background for that statement I tend to like to drink sweet, soft, light, and brighter sheng within the first year or two and more bitter and astringent versions fully aged, and I'm still exploring what might fall in between.  At this point it would seem more common for a tea to hit some sort of good balance right away, within two to three years, or much later on.


The next infusion isn't transitioning a lot but the character is nice.  The feel is catchy, being soft but with a fullness to it, and an unusual texture.  That woody flavor range isn't exactly a personal favorite but it works too.  It's interesting how little bitterness is present in this tea.  There is a little, to give it some balance, but not much.  If it transitions towards deeper, warmer flavors over time it might be really good, although I can't guess how it will be different in a few years or 10 more.  Buying a few cakes to experience aging transition cycles is the page I'm on now.  I'll be mentioning quite a number of them over the next month or so, more than my wife would want to hear about me buying.

One of the two from the Shenzhen trip  had more pine character than I'm used to, and one was a bit mushroomy (one I've tried but not reviewed yet), with another an aged version including more dirt taste than I usually tend to notice.  It's all surely better than it sounds as one-word descriptions, but limited in positive character due to working from a tightly constrained budget.  This cake was around $90 and it cost around as much as the four I just mentioned together.

One might wonder, why spend money on tea purchased at Western retail online and then reign that spending in completely when actually visiting China?  My wife was with me; that's a main reason why.  $90 might have bought a really nice cake version there, or two, or I may have just wasted a lot of time trying fake 90's sheng.  Having a local guide along would've made a huge difference, and I didn't.

It's hard enough talking about tea to vendors here in Bangkok when their English is limited, and my Thai is all but worthless at that level of detail, but things were a lot worse in China.  I've noticed that I'm not familiar with tasting teas on the fly too, since I tend to go through it under very limited and specific circumstances here, taking a quiet hour to really get through one or two versions.  I can get a sense of a tea tasted in a shop but more detail fills in later, also in part because it's easier to judge without the variable of someone else making it using different parameters, water, etc.

Back to this tea version, the next infusion is just a bit softer, with the balance of what was already described shifting.  The wood tone might be moving towards pine, versus green wood spanning complex range across aged hardwood and tree bark earlier.  The warmth and depth of the flavor range (along with thickness of feel) is pleasant and promising, but it's hard to put labels to that.  On the next round I'll try mentioning alternate flavor and character interpretations to get there.

Flavor doesn't stand out as much as feel and overall effect as interesting or unusual; that makes it harder.  It tastes like something but the experience isn't centered on that.  For mineral range a warm version stands out, in between Utah slick-rock sandstone and a very mild version of rusted metal.  Or that part could come across like red clay instead.  Instead of wood the vegetal tone might strike someone as being like the scent of fresh tree leaves; not far off but different.  It hints towards spice but it's mild in comparison with the woody tone, like the one edgy aspect of nutmeg, but not the warmer and sweeter part, and nothing like cinnamon, where those two spices either seem similar or overlap a little.

As to changing feel description it coats your mouth, covering your tongue after you swallow, leaving behind an impression that's more feel-related than aftertaste related.  I could imagine people feeling all sorts of different ways about this tea, some loving it, some not liking it, and others just not completely getting it.  Someone drinking tea almost entirely for positive flavor range might not like it, especially if they wanted their sheng to taste more like an oolong, softer and in a different flavor profile.  Some Wuyi Yancha do drift into mild, complex, woody and aromatic liqueur flavor range a little but in general those are more straightforward and just different.


Around 8 or 9 infusions in the tea is still pleasant and intense (I've not went round by round in this description, and it's not transitioning that much anyway).  Flavor is still subdued in relation to the feel-character and overall effect seeming more complex.  It's an approachable, easy to drink tea; there's that. There is some bitterness to it; I may be understating how that aspect is represented and does balance the rest since I've become accustomed to drinking more bitter versions lately.  That can relate to very positive teas that age well, high quality versions, and also in a different form to cheaper, harder to take teas, just in different forms.

Conclusions

It's decent tea.  It's hard to not compare it to some of the rest I've been trying over the past week since it overlaps in character a little with some.  It might be better quality tea than it is a match to what aspects or style I like most.

That judgment naturally relates to considering value, if this costing around $.25 / gram stacks up well against other versions.  Value comes up especially since it was mentioned in the description, "...that I consider to be much better than its price tag."  One Farmerleaf Jing Mai version I bought a month or so ago cost pretty much exactly that but they're really different in character.  It might be possible to try to compare quality level or match to preference but I like them for different reasons, in different ways.  I can pick up quality level markers in some tea types that are familiar that places them at the next level up, what types sold as "gushu" tend to be like, but I don't necessarily prefer those aspects more, which makes the evaluation process a little odd.  I still need to dial in what I like best more, then compare more just across that limited scope.

In relation to those two teas from China (costing around $10, a complete anomaly) they're quite a bit better than 1/9th as good.  It's not fair comparing teas bought under favorable conditions inside China.  Or really with luck as a main factor, since those could've been pretty bad, maybe even the one I tasted prior to buying it, they just didn't turn out to be.

This doesn't strike me as better tea than would typically cost $90 for 400 grams.  The value is ok; the tea is pretty good, but I think this pricing isn't low for what it is.  That middle range for teas that are better than typical factory versions or blends vendors produce is a funny thing.  Blending more limited source versions keeps costs low and pricing around $30-40, with the trade-off being a loss in distinctiveness.  It's similar to semi-aged sheng versions; the supply and demand is a little odd because there isn't that much out there.  I have more to say about that related to two more such versions reviewed since this edit (mid-range priced versions) so I'll hold off on saying more until that post.


Related to the other running theme I have no idea how this will continue to transition over coming years.  Or if it will change any based on spending another week or two steaming here in the Bangkok hot season.  I tried it again with breakfast within a few days of doing this tasting session and the only additional thought was that I probably understated the level of bitterness, which was still moderate but seemed more pronounced then.

So far it has been my impression that compounds that cause bitterness and astringency in sheng enable transition to other forms of complexity, but I'm still at the stage of testing that out, and trying exceptions, and I can't judge expectations for this version.  For some teas I get the impression that drinking them within the next year would maximize their potential, before they change and become less positive, but I'm not as concerned about this one.  I'll keep trying it over the next year since it's pleasant now but will be in no rush to get through it before aging trades out too much early positive character.