Tea Side Dongfang Mei Ren white and Gui Fei

 

Two more teas from Tea Side, following an exceptional example of small-batch shu pu'er.  They're probably the best online source for specialty Thai teas, but then it helps that it's hard to think of a second example.  I can think of others, but there is no other Western-facing, sales portal based, broad selection, high quality tea outlet.  For value their range varies more, but then supply and demand can work out like that.  If they're selling something that barely exists the cost might end up being whatever it happens to be.  If there is no market rate to reference you can't really identify a typical price in relation to a quality level.

That is how I tend to define value, as price in relation to quality level.  Another related distinction that comes up is teas I can afford in comparison to versions that I feel I can't.  I cut off price per gram fairly low, as tea enthusiasts go, because I'm living off a Thai salary (a professional manager's version, but still), and I'm raising kids, in Honolulu at that.  I don't buy 50 cent or $1 per gram teas, ever.  Even a quite-standard 30-35 cent a gram range I avoid.  If you live in South East Asia and know the ins and outs of local tea sourcing you can still drink pleasant, good quality, interesting teas while spending less, but for others seeking out what's online in the Western market that's not the same.  Your own trade-off would fall wherever it happens to.

I've tried their Gui Fei before, and it was exceptional.  I've never tried another version of Gui Fei from Thailand, but even if I had the quality level of theirs would make for a really high bar to clear.  It's described, and in my understanding actually is, a rolled variation of Oriental Beauty.

Both of these are variations of Oriental Beauty.  That name is sometimes avoided by vendors now, as it is missing on these labels, because "oriental" is now typically regarded as pejorative, as negative and insulting, like "indians" is in relation to Native Americans.  I'm not sure that's fair.  It's an old term, that had been used for a long time to simply mean "Asian."  Then racist connotations were eventually paired with the general Asian theme and image, but I'm not sure the term Oriental played much of a role in that.  Either way it was largely swept aside.  What could be the problem, since this happens all the time, routine changes in language use?

Business names in the East and West were using that term, and some of them can't switch off it as easily.  A main Bangkok hotel is called the Oriental, a central landmark, and they're not going to change that name.  I've been here in "the orient" since that changeover occurred, about 15 years ago, and people here still aren't clear on the change. Political correctness is an American theme; it doesn't apply in Thailand.  And their primary language is Thai, so keeping up with changes in English use isn't necessarily a priority for them. 

For that tea type it already had a few names, so that doesn't matter.  Many vendors went with something like Eastern Beauty, or the Chinese name would work, Dongfang Mei Ren.  I think there was another name too, Bai Hao, but this could get complicated in relation to Bai Hao Yin Zhen, silver needle white tea.

Anyway, these teas are quite familiar, except for the hybrid theme of the Dongfang Mei Ren being white tea.  That's a name for the Taiwanese oolong style (which has been produced in Thailand for awhile as well).  We'll see how that works out in the tasting notes.  I'll add vendor descriptions and links after the tasting, not that it would change much reading that first.  I'd probably notice exactly what the vendor did for flavors, if I did read that first, where my interpretation will be similar but different if I didn't.  He might say the white version tastes like raspberry, then I might try it and mention another fruit tone instead, when really either make for a decent interpretation.

Let's check the vendor listings to see what Tea Side has to add.

2024 Dongfang Meiren White Tea ($17.80 for 50 grams; sounds fine)

This Dong Fang Mei Ren is unusual—it’s made without roasting, in the style of white tea. Just the sun, just the bitten leaves—only hardcore!

[I edited out a part about cold-brewing it, but that approach would work].

Hot brews reveal an equally delicate infusion, with a distinct honey profile and a subtle melody of fruit caramel. There’s also a light aroma of teakwood, reminiscent of sheng pu-erh. But honey takes center stage here—rich, unfiltered, and in full bloom...

Like a true white tea, the liquor starts off pale, almost colorless, and gradually deepens into amber—another trait that sets it apart from classic Dong Fang Mei Ren Oolong.

It's made out of TRES #17 Ruan Zhi (plant type), also sometimes called Bai Lu, and the other version is as well.  Interesting!

2024 Gui Fei Premium Oolong Tea  ($16 for 50 grams; again not bad for this tea quality)

I can confidently say this is one of the most powerful classic Gui Fei oolongs we’ve ever sold.

By “classic,” I mean: pure, well-bitten material (easy to recognize by its flavor intensity, profile, and steeped leaves); oxidized more than light oolongs but without crossing into “red water” territory.

Tasting Notes

Rinsed leaves explode with a fruity mix, led by a bright strawberry note on a dense honey background. The tea is fresh, and its melody reminds me of wild Thai honey.

The sharp honey note, the one that always present in well-bitten material, is absolutely mind-blowing here. You’ll recognize it instantly as soon as you start inhaling the aroma.

The long-lasting aftertaste deserves special mentioning, it brings caramel and chocolate candy tones plus that velvety honey sensation on the palate.

Excellent endurance to multiple infusions, as expected from premium quality. The liquor is smooth, soft, and sweet.

It was pretty good.  I had trouble breaking down the flavors, because it was pretty complex, and the two together were a lot to take in, but then again interpretations always vary anyway.

Review:

DFMR #1:  it's just great, pretty much what I expected.  It's a little light because I don't usually add time to the first infusion to account for the leaves just getting wet, trying it light first, and I tried to back off my typical 8 or 9 grams per 100 ml gaiwan proportion, which is often a little excessive, going with 6 or 7 instead.  For a combined tasting I won't get to the end of the story as it is, trying 5 or 6 rounds, then not passing on how the next few go.  [After going through a session this might be half the packages instead, 7.5 or 8 grams, by the looks of it].

Flavors are in typical DFMR / OB range, including cinnamon and plenty of warm fruit, with this also quite bright, covering warm dried fruit and lighter citrus tones.  Sometimes people associate muscatel with OB too, beyond that being linked to types of Darjeeling more often, and I guess that works too.  Complexity is good, sweetness is great, and feel is a bit rich even for it being so light.  It's hard to pin down exactly how this is different from a regular oolong version.  

It is a little light (in flavor character range), but then those don't absolutely have to be one oxidation level step away from black tea, as they often are.  By appearance and some character range oxidation level is backed off in this, but then the warm tones tell the opposite story.  It's hard to say.

Gui Fe:  much darker in appearance; this may be oxidized more and also roasted, where the other may not be roasted at all, or at least not much.  The flavor range overlaps some but it's quite different.  A warm liqueur-like character emerges right away.  It doesn't taste like cognac or brandy, but there's a part of that experience that carries over, an aromatic range theme.  Maybe that is partly related to taste too.  Then spice tone leans towards cinnamon, as in the other tea, but it's not as clearly that, not definitely and distinctly cinnamon.

Roast input is interesting.  It doesn't come across as char, at all, but it seems like that input is pronounced.  I checked again and this is a 2024 tea.  If they had roasted this a bit too much a bit of char effect would come across, and then it might be better drinking it 2 or 3 years later after that had settled.  In a year a tea could still change but it seems likely that they've nailed the roast input, that it never tasted burnt in the slightest.  Maybe it did settle quite a bit though; who knows.

So we have spice, not exactly cinnamon, but close, a liqueur-like aromatic effect, which I've not described well in terms of seeming most associated flavor, and there's more going on than that.  Sweetness and brightness doesn't match the other tea, but there is enough sweetness in this to balance the rest.  It definitely doesn't come across as savory, but I might still decide that's part of it.  I'll add more flavor list for both as I go.

DFMR #2:   intensity bumps way up; I brewed this for nearly 30 seconds related to typing during that time, longer than it needed.  It can be nice trying a tea strong to see it from a different angle.  These teas would be quite pleasant brewed light, medium, or strong, just shifting character depending on that brewing time.  To me "light" would be 10 seconds at a moderate proportion, and heavy is about this, 30 seconds or so.

Warm tones stand out a lot more, the cinnamon versus fresher and lighter dried fruit and citrus.  It might switch back brewed light in a next round.  Dried fruit range is close to dried apricot, with citrus folding in along with that, maybe tangerine peel zest.  It might taste less like cinnamon and more like warm mineral, but it's still quite clean, balanced, and refined.  For mouthfeel being this full, without significant astringency coming into play, the extra intensity relates to a heavier feel along your tongue.  Aftertaste is more pronounced too, brewed stronger, but it's kind of a medium intensity effect in a sense.  Or rather it's not necessarily strong, as sheng pu'er can be, at times stronger after you swallow than while tasting, but it does linger in duration.  It's quite pleasant.

Gui Fei:  this is a bit too strong; the extra intensity in it doesn't work as well with that long infusion time.  It's standard practice to use stronger infusions to sort out flaws, part of why the standard approach to black tea tasting in places like India and Sri Lanka, plantation taste testing, overbrews teas, in comparison with typical drinking preferences.  A bit of sourness stands out in this, made this way; I suppose that could be considered a flaw.  If it balances quite well with the rest brewed more conventionally then it's not much of one, but if it stays in the balance at a significant level then it is.  It's still good though; I'm not saying that.

The rest of the flavors are similar, but it seems as well to describe this more at an optimum, using a 15 second or so infusion time, and covering a more complete list next round.  It goes without saying that these are the kinds of teas you don't throw out the last of while tasting, rushing to get to the next round.  I typically don't, even for lower quality or less favorable teas, since I see it as disrespectful to the tea, but for this anyone would have the same reaction, and would drink the last drops.

DFMR #3:  this really shines, brewed appropriately.  Brighter citrus returns.  This does seem closer to a muscatel designation than ever, even if I can never be sure I'm using that term right.  It seems to correspond to a limited range of description of citrus tone, one that I explored quite a bit in drinking dozens of Darjeeling versions.  Still, it's hard to say.  Food flavors make it so easy because you try variations from time to time, and right there it is.

Brightness and lightness are pleasant in this.  Maybe that's a big part of the difference from this being designated as oolong.  In theory it should've also been exposed to less of a kneading / bruising step, I think, but then less might be more related to me guessing about processing.  I don't make tea.

Cinnamon isn't evolving away, dropping out, but fruit dominates the experience at this round, and place in the transition cycle.  It might be a little harder to place brewed lighter but the effect is still as intense.

Gui Fei:  it balances much better.  Either that sourness was either an effect of overbrewing the tea or it was the kind of flavor range that shows up early and drops out, as harsh edges can with sheng pu'er (if it has them).  It's quite pleasant.  Spice range is there but hard to isolate.  That could be some type of incense related spice instead of cinnamon, maybe sandalwood.  I think the fruit range is next, but again it's not framed in a distinct way, not easy to pin down.  It all integrates.  Roast / warm mineral tone input is there too, and mouthfeel corresponds to what one might expect of that, not really dry, but full in a different sense than the other, with the beginnings of what would seem like structure if it was stronger.

I think a bark spice might work as a decent interpretation, just not exactly cinnamon.  Many years ago I went on a decade or two long tisane exploration phase, and encountered other barks used as tisanes then, that span a really interesting and pleasant range.  I just can't remember any names of those, and certainly can't place an association with one.

DFMR #4:  this might be a good place to leave off, because this runs long.  I don't want to type 2000 words and readers wouldn't want to read that either.  I'll only mention transitions and close this.

It might be getting slightly better, picking up depth and balancing better, but that's about it for changes.  That's a great sign, because some other Thai OB I've tried can be pleasant, generally not quite this good, but tending to die early related to intensity, not making many good rounds.  If this is still improving rather than fading the infusion count cycle should run long enough.  Cinnamon and warmer tone stand out more this round; that's probably from me adding more time than last time, not from a transition change.

GF:  liqueur-like character is really pleasant in this, but then that's not new.  What I'm interpreting as either bark spice or incense spice--kind of repeating myself in that, since those incense spices probably are bark material based, or at least derived from aromatic woods--is as significant as before, and it makes this really stand out.  I can't imagine anyone being put off by that, but some may feel more connection with it than others, a closer match to preference.

It's interesting considering if the first really is more of a warm weather tea, for being brighter in tone and flavor, and if the second would be more suitable for drinking when it's cool out.  Maybe.  It's hot as could be now, where I am, maybe close to 90 F (around 30 C), and humid as well, since I'm in Bangkok.  Both are fine for me, but then it's a normal weather experience for me.  Maybe that's part of why I like relatively young sheng though, with a brighter character, and cooler / cooling effect.

I shouldn't be dabbling in Traditional Chinese Medicine related commentary either; I know almost nothing about that.

The teas have been great.  I'd highly recommend both.  I suppose that I liked the Dongfang Mei Ren white a little more, the opposite of what I'd expected.  It wasn't really that the second didn't meet my expectations, just that the first stood out more than I expected.  

Producers can make a version of Oriental Beauty with positive flavor range often enough, but the flavors expressing that degree of novelty, refinement, and intensity isn't typical.  Cinnamon and citrus flavors balancing like that is what seems to me to be a primary appeal of Oriental Beauty style teas.  

The intensity mentioned in the Tea Side description of the Gui Fei was nice.  As a sheng drinker oolongs can tend to be a little too soft and subtle, at times, with most white teas all the more so.  Both of these expressed good intensity, but the Gui Fei might have hit a little harder in the sense of covering deeper and heavier range, with the DFMR lighter and brighter.

Tea Side 2021 "Chocolate Noir" small batch shu pu'er

 

I've written about Tea Side small batch shu / shou pu'er before.  It was exceptional.  Valerie of Tea Side recently mentioned finding some of an old batch that is also exceptional.  "Old" here means 4 years old; that's always relative.  A year or two is plenty to air out most shu, to get most of the fermentation effects to settle.  In some cases longer might make a positive difference.  Four years is definitely suitable.

The backstory:  Tea Side experimented with making small-batch, basket fermented shu some years ago.  Typical shu processing involves wet-piling a lot of tea, maybe tons, in a large room environment.  Small batch shu isn't unheard of; they definitely didn't invent that theme.  In theory it can produce very novel results, where larger batch processing is oriented towards achieving a standardized positive result.

I considered tasting this in comparison with another exceptional shu version, which might have shed more light on it, but to save time and keep this simple I won't.  Maybe I can refer to the other range of shu I've tried from memory.  I've reviewed a couple of very exceptional versions this year, one from Vietnam (really an anomaly), and another a great version from Farmerleaf, of course a Yunnan pu'er.  

[Later edit:  this was distinctive enough that comparing it to other versions or making general quality level assessments didn't seem so relevant, so I didn't].

Review:

1:  yep, there is dark chocolate.  Impressions and interpretations can vary, so maybe someone could make it through a whole tasting without placing that, but when you expect that it stands out quite a bit.  This is roughly as good as shu tends to get, sweet, complex, and balanced.  It will pick up intensity on the second round, once it's fully wetted, but it's already good.  Of course there is a pronounced mineral layer beneath the dark chocolate / cacao.  I'll save the rest of the breakdown for next round.

Sometimes I don't mention parameters, but I might as well.  Of course I've not measured an amount, but this looks to be 7 or so grams to me, a good bit, but not maxed out for a 100 ml gaiwan.  Water is hot, but not full boiling point, since I'm using a filtered version that is heated by a hot water dispenser, which wouldn't quite make it to that temperature.  Transferring it through a thermos would drop out a little more heat.  I brewed that for 15 seconds or so, and this next round a little longer, although shorter would also work. 

2:  Marshmallow really ramps up in this.  I've encountered that a half dozen or so times in trying teas, and it's pretty much always really pleasant, as nice an herbal input as one generally encounters.  To me this tastes more like marshmallow than cacao / chocolate at this point, but both are there.  I've included some background on the plant input that marshmallow is copying, or originally included, which is exactly what you'd expect, the root of a plant that grows in marshes used to make a candy version similar to but different from our modern marshmallow form.  If memory serves it was used more as a thickener than for the taste, but both could be pleasant together.

The flavor list seems a bit short, even though this comes across as complex.  It includes marshmallow, cacao, and limited dark-toned mineral.  Some of those warm tones resemble a really light roasted coffee.  Of course it's not bitter, astringent, or harsh in any way, instead smooth and rich.  Sweetness level is nice; the rest combines better for that being present.

3:  I'm brewing this a bit faster, around 15 seconds, mostly to experience variation, if that comes up.  One thing I might've already mentioned is that there is a particular sweetness and flavor to clumps of tea that form in the wet-piling process, called cha tou, or tea heads, and this resembles that particular sweetness and flavor.  For people who haven't tried that it wouldn't necessarily be informative, but if you like shu it should make your list of things to get to.  

There isn't that much variation in shu to try, so I'll list out what I see as other types or themes here.  Small-batch versions can be different, like this one.  High buds content versions taste different, and can be pleasant, sometimes referred to as Gong Ting grade, or imperial or palace grade.  Aged lower fermentation level shu is another type that is valued, often sold as CNNP / Zhongcha versions from the late 90s or early 2000s, usually as bricks instead of cakes.  There are lots of claims about gushu shu, or versions made from desirable material locations, even up to range like Bing Dao, but those claims can be hard to place.  One might try something offered as from a decent Jing Mai source, and let the more exotic range go, since it could be fake more often than real.

This round is slightly less intense for being brewed faster but it's still quite intense.  Aftertaste expression actually increases, for whatever reason, and it might seem a little sweeter.  Thickness of feel and complexity drop a little, brewed less strong.  Flavor range doesn't vary so much; only the balance or proportions of the prior list shift.  Marshmallow is really strong, but that was probably true last round too.

There may be one type-typical description of the cha tou / tea clumps / tea heads standard flavor that I'm missing, a different way to place that.  It's so bright, sweet, and complex that it leans a little towards tangerine flavor, but it's definitely not that.  Like vanilla?  That seems to work better.

4:  Not so different, but a bit more intense and complex.  Since I'm describing this as tasting like cacao and marshmallow one might wonder if it tastes like a s'more.  It does.  I don't think much of the graham cracker carries over, but that's probably still open to interpretation.  

This is already about as much as I'm going to interpret, without trying another half dozen rounds to explain later stage transitions, which would occur.  This already covers the basic, early infusions, main flavors.  Earthy range will probably pick up as this needs to be stretched a bit more to get the same intensity.  Brighter, lighter cacao and marshmallow should keep fading, but probably not that much over the next 3 or 4 rounds, only in the later stage.

As for conclusions, it's pretty good.  The way they describe it works; it's distinctive, complex, pleasant, and exceptional.  It's as good as shu gets.  Related to value or fair cost range people would have to place that for themselves; options and pricing ranges vary from different kinds of vendors.  

It's hard for me to relate to the very highest quality and most distinctive style range of shu, or for that matter for any tea type.  Different versions out there, of different types, sell for $1 a gram or more, but typical shu range is at the opposite extreme, or more in the middle for the best versions.  It's interesting checking Tea Side's listing and seeing where it falls, and how they describe it:

2021 “Chocolate Noir II: A Long-Forgotten Stash” Craft Ripe Pu-erh Tea ($22 for 50 grams)

This shou pu-erh I crafted from old Thai trees, averaging around 300 years in age—the very same material I always used for "Raspberry Pine." The fermentation was completed on December 5, 2021. And the tea then went off into aging to develop the right, well-rounded profile.

Over the following year, I checked in on it regularly, but wasn’t quite happy with the flavor. So I shelved the box higher up in our warehouse and, honestly, forgot about it. After 3.5 years of storage, it resurfaced during an inventory check—and now, I’m completely satisfied with the profile.

This tea unfolds gradually, requiring water as hot as you can get it, and a generous steeping time. We didn’t separate tea heads from loose leaves: the leaves infuse fast, while the heads maintain excellent steeping durability.

The dry aroma is classic—slightly salty, woody. Once rinsed, the scent transforms into soft, sweet woodiness, with notes of chocolate and raspberry jam.

The flavor profile is smooth, dense, and even: teak wood, a solid chocolate body, and a pleasant coffee-like bitterness finishing each sip.

This shou distinctly recalls our “Chocolate Noir”, which was produced later, from different material and slight adjustments in processing. Over years of aging, the raspberry-berry nuances have faded, replaced by a harmonious, rounded fusion of chocolate and wood. However, if your nose is keen, you might still detect faint traces of berry jam in its fragrance.

The aftertaste is lovely: like a childhood chocolate candy, with the gentlest touch of coffee.

It probably would've been better using the hottest possible water, instead of in the 90-some C range, as I brewed it.

It's interesting that I did mention chocolate (also in the marketing) and coffee in this, leaving out reference to jam or dried fruit, and adding that it tasted a good bit like marshmallow to me, and maybe just a little like vanilla.  Interpretations would always vary; that's normal.  The general impression seems about the same.

If someone was open to spending nearly 50 cents a gram on a shu I guess this version might justify that as well as any.  It's probably as good as any shu version I've ever tried, and I've tried a lot, some presented as exceptional.  Still it's just shu.  I never could relate to people focusing on that type range as a primary preference, but then preferences do vary.  

Even for people not so interested in the type it might make sense to buy a little to see what the high end / most distinctive range is all about.  I probably wouldn't, but then having a tight tea budget narrows a lot of choices down to very few.  I wouldn't buy sheng for 40-some cents a gram either, and that kind of offering is a lot more common.

Bangkok tea shops and cafes; online Thai tea options

 

It's been awhile since I've written anything about this (6 1/2 years), and for whatever reasons discussing it has come up a half dozen times or so in the last month.  Lots of people visit lately.  Of course this list is centered on my own favorites, but I'll try to map out a range of other options.

Online options are included in the last section; people not able to shop locally in Bangkok might scan through the rest and focus more on that, or just skip ahead.

Edit:  I've added Maps links to these, along with the Facebook or website references they first included, so it should be easy to find out more about these options or to physically finding them.

My Favorites:

Jip Eu (Maps link): my favorite Chinatown shop, where the owners feel a bit like family.  On the positive side they carry lots of teas, lots of types even, and most are sold at great value.  On the negative side it's a hard place to shop, because there is no menu or listing of options, it's not easy to sort out what is in there, and quality and style varies a lot.  Their storage ages sheng pu'er fast--it's Bangkok, so hot and humid--but teas pick up a little extra mustiness, which tends to fade over 3 to 6 months.

They would taste some teas with guests but not over and over, not whatever is in the store; they're not set up as a tourist outlet, selling more to locals who already know what they like.  I never end up trying the same teas twice there.  Their specialization is Wuyi Yancha, rock oolongs from Fujian, but they also have Tie Guan Yin (from China, from Anxi), an odd mix of sheng versions, some aged, Dan Cong, a random selection of black teas, and a little of this and that beyond those.  There's not much Thai tea, but they would have some, maybe just no rolled oolong, the standard form, and no Thai sheng, what I like best.

I've met many kind people there; this is Sasha and Maddhurjya, and Kittichai on the right

Some teas there are good value but of very moderate quality.  A main offering is 50 to 100 baht boxes or paper wrapped squares of Chinese and Thai material blends ($2 to $3 per 70 to 100 grams; very inexpensive).  Sometimes a Shui Xian version (rock oolong again) can be medium quality instead, in those blends, so it can happen that a $3 selection would be equivalent to $10 or $20 worth in a US shop.  That's rare though; usually the quality is so-so for cheaper versions.  

Good higher end Wuyi Yancha tends to sell for 1000 baht / $30 for 100 grams, which is still a good value for being a completely different type of tea.  They don't carry a lot of sheng pu'er but some of the options they do have are good basics.  I keep buying Xiaguan tuochas there, and a fully fermentation-transitioned Tulin tuo is nice for trying basic aged tea range.

K. Mui Kee Tea (Maps link): probably not so different than Jip Eu, and just a block and a half away, another old Chinatown shop.  I've visited a few times but keep going to Jip Eu instead.  They sell different teas in dried tangerine peels (chen pi, the name of the peel sold alone, or sometimes used as a name for the stuffed dried peels).  Those are most often shu pu'er, but can be other types.  That might be good for novelty, for a gift for someone.  Wuyi Yancha or Dan Cong might be ok there but you'd have to try it to check on quality and value to know.

that shop owner is so nice, and I don't even really know him

Sen Xing Fa (Maps link; still on Chinatown shops):  a higher volume, more tourist oriented outlet, closer to the Yaowarat strip area, in a side street that sells a lot of street cafe food.  Selection of Thai and Taiwanese medium quality rolled oolongs is good, but value is just normal for those, with many selling for $15 to 20 per 100 to 200 grams or so.  Selection is broad but quality and value is all over the place; you need to try teas to see what's there.  

Where Jip Eu will try some teas with you, but would draw the line at tasting a lot of versions, or opening some of any kind, you can sit and drink lots of tea with them here.  You pay the price in value related to that though; some teas are good for the selling price, others not so much.  They carry more new / young sheng and shu than the other places already mentioned, and sell more teaware.  Per visiting with a new tea contact recently it's probably not the best place to be buying expensive clay pots, yixing and such.  Moderate quality teacups and the like would be the same as buying them anywhere else, but it's rare to see as broad a range of options as they have anywhere else in Bangkok.

VIP guests and a main owner

they hosted a nice meetup this year.  sheng cakes and teaware are on the other side of the shop

Ju Jen (Maps link) I've only been to this shop a few times but I'll  include it in favorites since my experiences have always been so positive.  It's way out there on Srinakarin road, out towards Bangna and the airport in the Paradise Park mall.  They seem to have a lot of variety, and I'm not sure if there is a specialization.  I bought some interesting mini cakes of pu'er last time I was there, 100 gram versions; that's a nice way to try something different, or it works for the gift theme.  

I'm not sure how many local Thai tea options they carry, but I did just review a pretty good Oriental Beauty / Dong Fang Mei Ren version from there, so at least some.  There seemed to be plenty of teaware around, but I have no idea where they stand on sorting versions or value for clay pots.

Zhennan cafe (Maps link): I've only visited here a couple of times, a cafe in Chinatown, but I suppose it fits here.  Tea selection is limited, and nothing so novel and amazing, related to it being so small, but it has a nice feel, which to me is what cafe experience is all about.  If the listed teas on a menu don't sound interesting they might carry others; it wouldn't hurt to ask.  

There may be lots of similar options all around Bangkok; I hear of other places like this but typically don't visit them.  To be honest I don't love spending any time in cafes; I'd rather buy loose tea and drink it at home.  But visiting that Chinatown can be rough; lots of ground to cover.  It's right beside a main alley market I'd highly recommend, which has a decent tea shop in it, and a few other places to buy very low grade tea and mass produced teaware.  That may sound off-putting to most tea enthusiasts but it can be nice to have an extra glass teapot or a number of extra small cups for gatherings, if you don't already.

an international tea expert and friend visiting Zhennan (John Lim)

the Zhennan cafe owner, and more of the interior

that Soi 6 market alley shop (note the alley has a different name from the North side)

what that market alley looks like

Classics:

Tea Dee (Maps link):  way out beside the Ju Jen shop in the Thanya Park mall there is a store that has long been a favorite among locals, which specializes in in-house sheng pu'er versions, and probably carries some factory versions too.  I've not been there in forever, since they moved from another nearby mall space, but given how they are viewed by others it seems to represent a standard option.  I've never been into the $1 / gram standard gushu sheng range, since that's not within my budget, but this might be the best place to buy that kind of thing in Bangkok.

This raises the question of how many other mall shops like here and Ju Jen are out there.  Very few others, I think.  There are tea shops, or booths selling limited range, but nothing I know of that specialty tea enthusiasts would seek out.  There had been a main one in the Paragon Mall, with a reputation for selling decent tea on the expensive side, but that's gone, and there's only a second branch somewhere else, as far as I know.  Royal Project shops exemplify what other mall-shop exceptions are like.

Royal Project stores (Maps link of one example): some of the oolong from Royal Project stores isn't bad; that's what introduced me to loose tea a dozen or more years ago here.  They're around, in malls and such, or there is one at the airport (Suvarnibhumi).  

For tea enthusiasts into above average quality Taiwanese rolled oolongs the quality probably just isn't good enough, but for buying some inexpensive gifts for people not yet into tea back home this may be perfect, or people would see "daily drinker" range in different ways.  They might carry an extra black or green tea but quality is kind of so-so, so sticking to the oolongs might be better.  Value is good for them, quality in relation to cost.  Tea selection is quite limited but dried fruit and whatever else is sold in those shops might be of interest.  Some sell boxes of plain tisanes presented as tea bag versions, which I buy once in awhile.

Double Dogs (Maps link): the main Chinatown (Yaowarat road) traditional Chinese cafe, also selling some cakes and loose teas.  It's really small; you might go in expecting that it may or may not work out for seating availability, or call ahead to reserve a space if it means a lot to you and you are on a tight schedule (which is no way to experience a Chinatown, but it can come up).  That Soi 7 market alley is right beside Double Dogs, and a wholesale area selling all sorts of random goods is all located on the South side of Yaowarat near here.  The main evening street food vending options are in the same area, as a few herb shops are, which is a good place to stock up on an extra kilogram of chrysanthemum, if one is into that.

this is actually half the cafe (credit a FB page photo)

Monsoon (Asok branch Maps link): local branches of a vendor based out of Chiang Mai.  Most of their selection is flavored teas, presented as wild-origin source material (which they are, but what that means probably isn't completely obvious).  For people open to that range or curious about that theme it's definitely worth checking out.  

There had been a small stall sort of outlet in one of the malls at Phrom Pong, I think in Em Quartier, but the main branch is at Asok, way back in the system of sois (side streets), behind the parts of that area that everyone knows about.  That shop isn't right beside the red-light "Soi Cowboy" area, but not far (but it's safe anywhere in Bangkok, even after dark; no need to worry).  They had sold kombucha at a small cafe type section; that might be nice.  

If value is a main concern then Chinatown shops are a better option; teas are priced at above average market rates, for what they are.  The teas are unique enough that there really is no market rate, so they wouldn't turn up in Chinatown, but you get the idea, you can find equivalent quality teas for less elsewhere, just not the same styles.  There is less to sort out than at Chinatown too; even though the range is mostly flavored blends it's all consistent, where in Chinatown you really don't want to drink any of the below average quality versions, related to it being bad and potential risk of contaminants exposure.

Monsoon holds interesting informative events, like this one on biodiversity research

Dayi / Taetea shops:  the two I've visited in town both closed but there are at least a couple of others.  Google search would let you know where; I don't know, and only mention them here for completeness.  That's the name of one of the three main Chinese factory producers of sheng and shu pu'er, for people not already clear on that.  I don't think seeking out these shops would make sense for buying oolong, black, or green teas, but I did buy two nice pressed white tea cakes in one, shou mei and gong mei.

Grocery stores:  of course this doesn't work, but there must be something to add about this.  I bought a Dayi Jia Ji sheng pu'er tuocha in a specialty grocery store once; exceptions come up.  Of course there are other places to buy those (Sen Xing Fa sells them, from the rest of this list, and Yunnan Sourcing or King Tea Mall are good sources online).  The Thai oolongs grocery stores sell are typically not above average, and average quality range here isn't so great.  

In China it is possible to buy so-so factory sheng pu'er in grocery stores; I just tried part of a cake that's running low I bought in Shenzhen on a visit back in 2019, which was decent--relatively speaking--in spite of selling for next to nothing, around $10 per cake.  Here it's better to avoid all of it, and sheng wouldn't turn up anyway (that one time was the only time I've seen it, except for sheng pu'er tea bags, which I'm not going to dignify with discussion here).  You might be curious about what an inexpensive box of loose Thai oolong might be like, Shui Xian made in more of a Wuyishan style, but it would almost always be pretty bad.  It's better to buy such a thing at shops like Jip Eu or K. Mui Kee Tea.

New options / different themes:

Koto Tea Space (Maps link):  I've never been to this place, but a friend runs it, so it must be nice (and the local buzz is positive too).  It's themed around Japanese tea experience, with emphasis on the aesthetic side, two parts of tea experience I generally try to avoid.  A setting looking nice is fine, some wood paneling, plants, or a water feature, but once there is too much of an elaborate decoration theme or people are wearing robes I'm out.

visiting would be worth it to meet Pop, the owner (photo credit their FB page, from 2021)

Peace Oriental (Maps link to one branch):  I think an earlier attempt at making a theme like that at Koto Tea Space didn't work for Peace Oriental, and they're on to being more of a standard cafe now, selling blended flavored iced teas and such, as well as more traditional versions.  It could still be interesting, if your path takes you near a branch.  I might've only visited one branch of this chain one time; again I'm just not that into cafes.  If you spend $10 on a decent pot of tea you might as well add 10 more and buy a decent tuocha's worth, or a passable 100 or 200 gram amount.  

Everything I'm saying here is a biased and one-sided take, of course.  I'm not into style as a main attraction in tea shops, and marketing spin pushing pricing for good basic version options to double what they sell for elsewhere.  Some people value style, and a "curation" function can seem to add value, beyond simple tea quality in relation to price.

their older theme was all white space; on to an updated natural materials look

the outlet I visited, which may be closed now

Ong Yong Choon (that is a Maps link) / other local shops:  there are countless places selling all sorts of variations of teas in Bangkok, hundreds if you count bubble tea and matcha outlets, or maybe even thousands.  This place I've named is an old-style tea shop near Wat Pho (a main temple), or more specifically beside the flower market beside Wat Pho.  

More conventional examples would be new forms of cafes, which keep opening and closing every year.  I've heard of 3 or 4 new versions this year but I'm only mentioning places I've not been to here when it makes sense to, when I've heard enough about them to reliably pass on what they are probably like.

Ong Yong Choon, the owners (who are so nice, as I keep saying about everyone)

Traditional shops / Cha Tra Meu:  I've still not mentioned anything about the orange flavored Thai tea, or the versions that look like teh tarik in Malaysia (pulled tea, with added reference to pouring it back and forth), often brewed in what looks like a small wind sock.  Both are around, they're just different kinds of things than specialty loose tea.  If you are in a really old-style restaurant or food court and see that old form of brewing you should try it out, but it's just inexpensive black tea with sweetened condensed milk.

The orange flavored version is something else.  Ordinarily I don't like artificially flavored teas, and it definitely is that, but that is tasty.  There's a shop selling it--Cha Tra Meu, the main one--in the building where I work, and I've never bought a take-out or loose tea version there.  It's not taste preference that stops me from having it; I avoid eating processed sugar and artificially flavored foods.  For exceptions I'll eat donuts and ice cream sometimes, but not drinks that are full of sugar.  For people who are more open to that buying a tin of the flavored loose black tea might be good.  Dairy Queen here did a Thai tea flavor promotion at one point and it's for best for my health that was temporary; it was too good.

In talking to someone recently about why it seems like there are gaps in what is sold in shops here a few factors seem to combine.  Tea awareness and demand is limited, and Chinatown shops already cover that for people who have been into tea for awhile.  Online options increase, sales through Facebook pages, and large Thai tea interest groups / marketplaces are crowded with people selling lots of things (this is only one example).  

Some of those group posts would just be reselling the best of what is sold by small producers through Facebook pages, teas you could buy directly for less, and a lot of the rest would be Taobao or Alibaba purchases, a lot of which wouldn't be good tea, or selling at a good value.  Over time people would probably sort out which individuals are most reliable, and turn-over would weed out some of the least reliable options.  There are limited Western-facing online sales options; let's consider those.

Online:

Unfortunately the best Thai sheng is only available online, as far as I know.  I guess that's a good thing for people reading this who would never make it to Bangkok?  Wawee Tea is a good starting point, a main traditional producer, and Ming Dee is perhaps the other main producer option.  Those kinds of producers would have Facebook pages, or there are lots of online shops in the two main online sales platforms here, Shoppee and Lazada.  I'll skip looking up links here; people can Google search or look up blog posts here that contain those names.  

I didn't really intend for this section to mostly be about Thai sheng; it just worked out that way.  At least some of these outlet sell teas way beyond that range, even though I'm discussing sheng most here, and not the oolongs or black teas as much.  It's what I buy most of and drink myself.

Tea Side is the main Western-facing website outlet.  Value isn't great through them, with decent sheng selling for between 50 cents and $1 per gram, when you can find equivalent versions for far less if you put more effort into it.  For people who don't see spending $100 to 200 as much expense for a tea order, and don't care what that works out to in relation to $ / gram, then they're a great option.  

Their products are consistently good.  Sheng options are fine, or black teas are good, Dian Hong style versions from Thailand.  Aged tea options are also good, but that $200 won't go very far buying from that range.  Their small-batch shu versions are good, and a gui fei bug-bitten rolled oolong was nice in the past.

Let's make that summary more specific related to buying a young version of Thai sheng; what if you wanted to buy a moderate cost, most recent Thai sheng version they sell, how would that go?  There are two identically priced at the lowest cost, $70 for 200 gram cakes, both from 2018, this one a more bitter version.  It's not 50 cents a gram, but that is $130+ for a standard cake, nearly double in-house boutique style productions by other vendors, or 1 1/2 times the higher end of that range.  At that pricing you have a lot of options.  A 2021 version sells for $85 for 200 grams; close enough to that 50 cents a gram level.  It's just not the kind of outlet option where you find this year's tea selling at all, never mind related to style and pricing variations.

Rishi--the US wholesale vendor--sells cakes from different countries, including Thailand; that would be another decent option.  There must be other Western vendors selling Thai sheng, I'm just not familiar with any.  

Let's dig a little deeper; how good would quality and value be?  This is a 2022 Wawee origin sheng "pu'er" version, selling for $45 for 200 grams.  I've bought tea similar to this over the past two years, for slightly less, but $80-some for a standard cake amount is definitely still fair, depending on aspect range and quality.  They carry some Laos teas too; for people who aren't concerned about the $80 or so per cake price range I expect those would be interesting in character, and safe bets for quality level.

I can't say that their teas are definitely as good as Tea Side's, because that's too much generalization, but it's my guess that it comes down to preference instead of quality, and some people might like them more.  It can be natural to assume that pricing must correspond to quality level but varying outlets set pricing differently, and carry different options, and equating cost with probable quality level doesn't work.

Moychay Thai forest tea initiative:  I've written about trying a cake from Moychay's partnership operation in Thailand, with tea versions selling through their Netherlands outlet.  It's tempting to try to describe their teas in relation to what Rishi or Tea Side is likely selling, or Wawee Tea and Ming Dee versions, but it can introduce a lot of error to generalize across a lot of versions, when I've only tried one (or two?; maybe a loose version as well).  The quality of what I tried was quite good, the material was obviously high in potential, and while the style wasn't a complete match for Yunnan versions I liked it.

That theme applies to a lot of South East Asian sheng I've tried; often it's not produced in exactly the same style as Yunnan versions, often varying in ways that I like just as much.  Oxidation level can creep up a bit, maybe due to not rushing the processing steps to offset that, or maybe it's that hotter and more humid local conditions let the tea transition faster during the limited processing time.  Or maybe heating step, the sha qing / kill-green / pan frying step, is slightly different.  Teas can end up trading out some bitterness, astringency, and aging potential for extra sweetness, initial complex flavors, and approachability.  For a version that you plan to drink within 2 to 3 years that can actually be positive; for long-term aging it's not favorable at all.  

It's possible that Tea Side filters what they sell to match Yunnan styles better, so their higher pricing level could be justified, for some.  Or maybe they just charge more; I'm not implying that aging potential / style issue maps out like that across most versions, related to Tea Side matching Yunnan style and Moychay being more like local Thai versions, although it matches my past experiences.

I re-tried a favorite Thai sheng from 2022 just this week--from a local source that's hard to access, not one described here--and it was much different and just as pleasant as last year, not seeming to show great potential for 15-20 year aging, but to me a fantastic tea for drinking right now.  It was not just on par with but slightly better than what I've sampled from all of these other producers (per my preference; that's not intended as an objective judgment).

In terms of positive experience and quality that Moychay tea I tried was good; I think it would also hold its own in the now-standard $80 per standard size cake range, a pricing that's a bit high for me to buy or drink a lot of, even though it's quite standard.  

This autumn version from them sells for 13 Euro ($14--what's up with the exchange rate?), for a 200 gram cake, so that's still very favorable pricing.  Autumn versions give up a little intensity and tend to cost less but that's still a great deal.  They list that one as "green tea," which I think is a translation issue, but it really could be pressed green tea, even though that existing--a pressed cake of green tea--would be stranger than getting a translation wrong.  

This other cake sold as sheng is 239 Euros for a standard size cake (on towards $250).  So it goes with buying pu'er; you can accept what someone says online as input but you never really know until you're tasting the tea, especially if the person offering input hasn't tried a specific version.  Style variations throw off the "good / not good" objective judgments; my absolute favorite Thai sheng not all other pu'er drinkers would even like.  

To complicate things further you can try 2 or 3 versions from a producer and think that those must map to all that they sell, good or bad, but that can vary a lot too.  Buying what they price the highest probably bumps the chances that you'll try their best versions, but even that might not be consistent.  Demand for a type shifts pricing just as much as quality, and many vendors just apply a standard mark-up, so if they get a good or bad deal on material / products your cost can vary by that factor more than quality level.  The smaller the vendor and less direct their source connection the more that applies, but in general pricing mark-up is a commercial function instead of relating to a quality judgement; it can vary a lot.

Sheng pu'er storage, wet, dry, and optimum

first published in TChing here

I've been giving sheng pu'er storage conditions some thought lately, and recently ran across examples of teas altered by the two extremes.  One paradigm was in the form of two different 2005 and 2014 sheng pu'er versions stored dry, in Kunming, that were very well preserved, and the other related to two 2009 cakes that were far more fermented than either of those.  That 2014 version was from Laos, so I usually call the type "sheng" but not "pu'er," a naming convention theme I don't revisit every post.

I don't know where the second more fermented versions were stored, but since I live in one of the hottest and most consistently humid places in the world, in Bangkok, I can draw on plenty of experience about how wetter storage tends to go, and speculate about how artificially maintained conditions might be different than here (although I don't do much with that in this).  I've posted about an even more extreme example in trying a 2010 Nan Jian (Tulin) mini brick, after writing this draft, so I'll leave that out of this discussion.

that 2005 Menghai sheng pu'er; a bit age transitioned

the Nan Jian / Tulin 2010 version, kind of at a similar level

Of course all of this is speculation, pulling together perspective based on partial inputs.  I've only mostly been drinking sheng pu'er for 4 or 5 years, so I don't have any examples of cakes that I've seen transition through even a decade of aging cycle myself, with 15 years cited as a more common fully aged starting point.  I did buy a few sheng and shu cakes around a decade ago but finished them.  Of course that range of experience is all relative to conditions, mapping fermentation level to time period, as more about those examples shows.  This could run long, like a short booklet on these themes, so I'll try to offset that by breaking thoughts up by short section, and really only offer input about humidity as a factor in relation to these cases, even though more than one input came into play, with temperature and air contact other main concerns, and starting point, the tea material, is just as critical as storage factors.  

A bit of an aside, I first wrote about pu'er storage conditions when researching that subject in 2016, and updated that adding a bit on what relative humidity is all about in 2017, with more on natural climate area ranges there.  As you read those posts they shift from only referencing external input to adding more about what I've experienced.  I wrote about sheng storage in a summary post comparing Kunming, Hong Kong, and Malaysia standard natural humidity levels back in 2019 (with local area tables in that post from the Weather Online site); I guess it is time to get back to updating comments on this subject.

Let's start with filling in what those examples covered, then a few definitions, then on to those thoughts about transition patterns.

Two "wet stored" 2009 sheng cakes (reviewed here):  it's a shame not knowing the storage conditions, but those two had to be stored right at the edge of as wet as possible to get to well transitioned in 13 years.  They still had a touch of younger character in limited senses, a bit of vegetal range left, but heavy fermentation related flavors stood out a lot more (mushroom, geosmin--essentially dirt, heavy earth, wood, and mineral flavors, warm dried fruit, dark wood and aged furniture).  Lots of teas I've reviewed here shared some of that scope, but it takes a different kind of input to get that much geosmin emerging.  For intense, bitter and astringent teas, like Xiaguan tuochas tend to be, you really need a lot of transition to move off that range some might see as unapproachable, so 15 years of relatively fast aging might be just the thing.  I suppose that's jumping ahead though, on to the patterns.

2009 versions, much more fermentation transitioned than the other two teas

1980 and 1993 versions color comparison (from here), relatively fully transitioned, brewed fast

Two well-preserved dry stored cakes:  a 2005 Menghai version and 2014 Laos tea.  There's a common discussion point that a trade-off for drier storage, beyond not transitioning (fermenting) is that a sour or wood-like aspect can develop, and I keep coming back to whether that happens or not in examples like these.  Both were really well-preserved, aged to a relative degree of half that if they'd spent the time here, or even less.  Some degree of bright, floral, aromatic, and fresh aspects remained in both, of course more so in the 2014 version, with that 2005 more in a "teen years" sort of middle ground for aspects present.  Starting point changes a lot, and I can't be sure how they were initially, but Laos teas are essentially never challenging to begin with (per trying at least a dozen sheng versions from there), and for Menghai versions that definitely can come up, intense character early.  

2014 Laos version, a little washed out by high lighting level, but also light

Is that really a regional character aspect theme though?  I'm not sure.  Laos teas have to be made from wild-grown, naturally occurring material because they're not farming teas in the same monoculture forms that are common in China there yet.  Surely someone is replanting and growing tea through more standard farming, but I mean in general.  Mountainous areas in Laos tend to be cool as SE Asia goes, not like the hotter lower flatlands in Laos.  It's unlikely that heavy pesticide and fertilizer use would come up as often as in standard monoculture farming; the trees have been living naturally for decades, or more likely centuries (a general 400 year age range comes up for the tea growing practices, often extended to saying that the actual plants are often 400 years old, which isn't right, they would vary in age, most much younger).  Then plant types would vary; although parts of Laos close to Yiwu that's no guarantee that plant types growing overlap so much.

To keep this moving back to that one storage input range let's consider what those wet and dry ranges really mean.

Dry storage:  

Based on reviewing average local climate conditions it doesn't seem that dry in Kunming, varying from low 50s (RH %) up to nearly 80, as a monthly average.  It's not necessarily the outdoor humidity level as a relative value that's a problem in temperate locations (the US, Europe), but that if it's cool out and heated indoors then that relative humidity level of heating air that can hold a lot less moisture is dry, relatively speaking.

For indoor storage it's commonly accepted that if the range falls below 50% the tea fermentation will become inactive (whether that's actually right or not, but that sounds like a reasonable conventional understanding to me).  In March and April, stored at natural local humidity levels, Kunming stored teas wouldn't be fermenting much, but that's still perhaps not bone dry.  Since it's an average it's harder to say, and it's not easy to factor in how indoor temperature moderation would work out, if real indoor conditions wouldn't tend to be drier.

Wet storage:  we can cite Malaysian values as an example here, and compare that to indoor controlled conditions:

Malaysian local climate shows humidity level in the mid 70s to low 80s, all the time, that's humid.  That's based on an average temperature window of 24 to 31 C (75 to 88 F, surely often hotter at mid-day).  That's a little more humid than here (Bangkok), where it's quite hot and humid, but weather varies a little more, with both are in a similar ballpark.  

I was going to use here as an example, about how it's cooler now because it's 10 AM, and the value will dry a bit as temperature increases, but it's 32 C (89 F) and 65% now, pretty hot and humid (when I wrote the first draft).  Maybe the point would've worked better at 6 AM, back when it was still in the 20s (closer to 80 F).  I'm first editing this on the Thursday shown and it really did get up to 37 C yesterday, which is hot, human body temperature, so the units conversion to 98 F comes easily.  I ran yesterday, in the afternoon, and was really feeling it.  Due to bad judgment I doubled my normal route length, from 4 km to 8, and I still felt the impact in the evening as a result of both.

People discussing controlling temperature for sheng storage tend to fix on specific humidity level they feel is high but still safe from mold, often using 70% RH for that, or sometimes less.  70% is kind of the edge, although other conditions factor in too, temperature, and degree of air contact.  I don't think you could hold stored sheng at the Malaysian local maximum, 84%, without experiencing problems.  If temperature shifts just a little it would take time for the salt pack to adjust and any condensation is a worst case for tea (sheng pu'er cakes; other teas don't need to be stored in contact with humidity, perhaps with shu pu'er and hei cha as possible exceptions).

Ideal / natural storage (two different things):  I'll have to mostly speculate a little about this but wave off the subject more than I address it.  One idea behind "natural storage" is that you aren't holding the humidity and temperature at one set value, and normal fluctuations in range allow the tea to experience a more normal, organic sort of environment.  If I'm remembering right Marshal N, of the Tea Addict's Journal blog, has speculated that some degree of change could be beneficial, having moisture move in and out of the tea, letting microfauna experience more normal circumstances.  I'm not sure, even if that attribution is completely accurate, since I've not been reading that blog as much for awhile.

"Ideal" would be a tricky concept, since people might naturally want different outcomes based on having different preferences.  Or something that gets less attention, it might depend on the tea character starting point, with more aggressively bitter and astringent teas really needing a lot of transition, and others that don't changing more positively when the shift is slower.  I won't get far with speculating about that second point here, except to say that I have liked some teas that weren't changed much over time, like those two I mentioned earlier.  

That 2010 Nan Jian / Tulin version is probably an even better example, the one I didn't go into here.  But then maybe I would've liked both just as much "younger" and stored wetter, and the 2005 Menghai version did seem to need more time to get to a likely more optimum aging level.  I'm trying it again with breakfast, and after, as I edit this; it will probably be better in 5 more years.

It would be nice if I had more exposure to what others see as optimum results, trials of 20 year old teas stored in different ways, starting from different characters, that turned out very well.  I'll only ever get so far with that; I don't have the tea budget to approach it in the most efficient ways.  This is a hurdle that many could find problematic in relation to feeling like they have a moderate degree of exposure to the subject, that trying 100 aged sheng versions wouldn't necessarily seem like a good background, because then someone might just want to try 100 much better versions.  Or too see the patterns play out for themselves for a few dozen cakes, a project that would take that 15 years or so.

On the one hand this is exactly what I love about sheng, beyond the direct experience of drinking the tea itself, that the experience of these transitions and inputs is never-ending.  In a recent video interview (where I was interviewed, odd) I answered that this is what keeps tea experience so new and interesting to me, even though I've been drinking a lot of teas over the past 8 or 9 years, that sheng versions can change every time you check in on them.

It was interesting talking to a well-known US tea enthusiast about these issues recently in a meetup, with "Mr. Mopar," but it's hard to drill down to discussing these levels of inputs and outputs.  As general patterns you can, but not in relation to getting a sense of how any one tea shifted, where it ended up (at one given time), and why.  Online group tasting is better for that, but it would still go one or two examples at a time.

All this reminds me of a tea enthusiast commenting about trying to break into sheng pu'er in a group post, trying out 15 or so versions from Yunnan Sourcing.   He referenced that as his "ante."  It seemed that if he chose 15 of the same type of versions, younger or medium aged factory teas, dry stored so not age transitioned, he wouldn't really experience much of the broader range of sheng pu'er.  Acclimation to bitterness takes time, and the main way people seem to adjust to that, beyond continuing to try bitter tea versions over time, is to approach sheng through shu experience.  Or it can work to try aged forms first, or milder, sweeter sheng versionss earlier on (with Yiwu origin teas often more like that).  He didn't like many of the teas.

I wouldn't have liked the 2005 Menghai version I'm trying now five years ago, and I guess I still have mixed feelings about it now, about bitterness and green wood vegetal range standing out a lot.  Without knowing the background context I might have expected this to represent relatively aged (fermentation transitioned) sheng, but it's definitely not that.  Dabbling in sheng over time might be a better approach, rather than letting one set of samples from one vendor determine your final take.  

A local friend recommended getting a cake and drinking all of it, just to adjust to the range, and to get brewing down.  Oddly that's good advice, but it also delayed my exploration of sheng quite a bit, because in not understanding types I bought something comparable to this Menghai tea when it was relatively new, based on a recommendation from another contact who probably had little exposure to sheng, with no communication about that context.  I could endure the bitterness and astringency by the end of that cake, brewing it fast, but it wasn't a helpful experience.

Needless to say very little of this is actionable guidance, just scattered discussion instead.  Maybe eventually I'll be able to write a post that goes that next step, on to practical advice and promising approach points.