Bangkok tea shops and cafes; online Thai tea options

 

It's been awhile since I've written anything about this (6 1/2 years), and for whatever reasons discussing it has come up a half dozen times or so in the last month.  Lots of people visit lately.  Of course this list is centered on my own favorites, but I'll try to map out a range of other options.

Online options are included in the last section; people not able to shop locally in Bangkok might scan through the rest and focus more on that, or just skip ahead.

Edit:  I've added Maps links to these, along with the Facebook or website references they first included, so it should be easy to find out more about these options or to physically finding them.

My Favorites:

Jip Eu (Maps link): my favorite Chinatown shop, where the owners feel a bit like family.  On the positive side they carry lots of teas, lots of types even, and most are sold at great value.  On the negative side it's a hard place to shop, because there is no menu or listing of options, it's not easy to sort out what is in there, and quality and style varies a lot.  Their storage ages sheng pu'er fast--it's Bangkok, so hot and humid--but teas pick up a little extra mustiness, which tends to fade over 3 to 6 months.

They would taste some teas with guests but not over and over, not whatever is in the store; they're not set up as a tourist outlet, selling more to locals who already know what they like.  I never end up trying the same teas twice there.  Their specialization is Wuyi Yancha, rock oolongs from Fujian, but they also have Tie Guan Yin (from China, from Anxi), an odd mix of sheng versions, some aged, Dan Cong, a random selection of black teas, and a little of this and that beyond those.  There's not much Thai tea, but they would have some, maybe just no rolled oolong, the standard form, and no Thai sheng, what I like best.

I've met many kind people there; this is Sasha and Maddhurjya, and Kittichai on the right

Some teas there are good value but of very moderate quality.  A main offering is 50 to 100 baht boxes or paper wrapped squares of Chinese and Thai material blends ($2 to $3 per 70 to 100 grams; very inexpensive).  Sometimes a Shui Xian version (rock oolong again) can be medium quality instead, in those blends, so it can happen that a $3 selection would be equivalent to $10 or $20 worth in a US shop.  That's rare though; usually the quality is so-so for cheaper versions.  

Good higher end Wuyi Yancha tends to sell for 1000 baht / $30 for 100 grams, which is still a good value for being a completely different type of tea.  They don't carry a lot of sheng pu'er but some of the options they do have are good basics.  I keep buying Xiaguan tuochas there, and a fully fermentation-transitioned Tulin tuo is nice for trying basic aged tea range.

K. Mui Kee Tea (Maps link): probably not so different than Jip Eu, and just a block and a half away, another old Chinatown shop.  I've visited a few times but keep going to Jip Eu instead.  They sell different teas in dried tangerine peels (chen pi, the name of the peel sold alone, or sometimes used as a name for the stuffed dried peels).  Those are most often shu pu'er, but can be other types.  That might be good for novelty, for a gift for someone.  Wuyi Yancha or Dan Cong might be ok there but you'd have to try it to check on quality and value to know.

that shop owner is so nice, and I don't even really know him

Sen Xing Fa (Maps link; still on Chinatown shops):  a higher volume, more tourist oriented outlet, closer to the Yaowarat strip area, in a side street that sells a lot of street cafe food.  Selection of Thai and Taiwanese medium quality rolled oolongs is good, but value is just normal for those, with many selling for $15 to 20 per 100 to 200 grams or so.  Selection is broad but quality and value is all over the place; you need to try teas to see what's there.  

Where Jip Eu will try some teas with you, but would draw the line at tasting a lot of versions, or opening some of any kind, you can sit and drink lots of tea with them here.  You pay the price in value related to that though; some teas are good for the selling price, others not so much.  They carry more new / young sheng and shu than the other places already mentioned, and sell more teaware.  Per visiting with a new tea contact recently it's probably not the best place to be buying expensive clay pots, yixing and such.  Moderate quality teacups and the like would be the same as buying them anywhere else, but it's rare to see as broad a range of options as they have anywhere else in Bangkok.

VIP guests and a main owner

they hosted a nice meetup this year.  sheng cakes and teaware are on the other side of the shop

Ju Jen (Maps link) I've only been to this shop a few times but I'll  include it in favorites since my experiences have always been so positive.  It's way out there on Srinakarin road, out towards Bangna and the airport in the Paradise Park mall.  They seem to have a lot of variety, and I'm not sure if there is a specialization.  I bought some interesting mini cakes of pu'er last time I was there, 100 gram versions; that's a nice way to try something different, or it works for the gift theme.  

I'm not sure how many local Thai tea options they carry, but I did just review a pretty good Oriental Beauty / Dong Fang Mei Ren version from there, so at least some.  There seemed to be plenty of teaware around, but I have no idea where they stand on sorting versions or value for clay pots.

Zhennan cafe (Maps link): I've only visited here a couple of times, a cafe in Chinatown, but I suppose it fits here.  Tea selection is limited, and nothing so novel and amazing, related to it being so small, but it has a nice feel, which to me is what cafe experience is all about.  If the listed teas on a menu don't sound interesting they might carry others; it wouldn't hurt to ask.  

There may be lots of similar options all around Bangkok; I hear of other places like this but typically don't visit them.  To be honest I don't love spending any time in cafes; I'd rather buy loose tea and drink it at home.  But visiting that Chinatown can be rough; lots of ground to cover.  It's right beside a main alley market I'd highly recommend, which has a decent tea shop in it, and a few other places to buy very low grade tea and mass produced teaware.  That may sound off-putting to most tea enthusiasts but it can be nice to have an extra glass teapot or a number of extra small cups for gatherings, if you don't already.

an international tea expert and friend visiting Zhennan (John Lim)

the Zhennan cafe owner, and more of the interior

that Soi 6 market alley shop (note the alley has a different name from the North side)

what that market alley looks like

Classics:

Tea Dee (Maps link):  way out beside the Ju Jen shop in the Thanya Park mall there is a store that has long been a favorite among locals, which specializes in in-house sheng pu'er versions, and probably carries some factory versions too.  I've not been there in forever, since they moved from another nearby mall space, but given how they are viewed by others it seems to represent a standard option.  I've never been into the $1 / gram standard gushu sheng range, since that's not within my budget, but this might be the best place to buy that kind of thing in Bangkok.

This raises the question of how many other mall shops like here and Ju Jen are out there.  Very few others, I think.  There are tea shops, or booths selling limited range, but nothing I know of that specialty tea enthusiasts would seek out.  There had been a main one in the Paragon Mall, with a reputation for selling decent tea on the expensive side, but that's gone, and there's only a second branch somewhere else, as far as I know.  Royal Project shops exemplify what other mall-shop exceptions are like.

Royal Project stores (Maps link of one example): some of the oolong from Royal Project stores isn't bad; that's what introduced me to loose tea a dozen or more years ago here.  They're around, in malls and such, or there is one at the airport (Suvarnibhumi).  

For tea enthusiasts into above average quality Taiwanese rolled oolongs the quality probably just isn't good enough, but for buying some inexpensive gifts for people not yet into tea back home this may be perfect, or people would see "daily drinker" range in different ways.  They might carry an extra black or green tea but quality is kind of so-so, so sticking to the oolongs might be better.  Value is good for them, quality in relation to cost.  Tea selection is quite limited but dried fruit and whatever else is sold in those shops might be of interest.  Some sell boxes of plain tisanes presented as tea bag versions, which I buy once in awhile.

Double Dogs (Maps link): the main Chinatown (Yaowarat road) traditional Chinese cafe, also selling some cakes and loose teas.  It's really small; you might go in expecting that it may or may not work out for seating availability, or call ahead to reserve a space if it means a lot to you and you are on a tight schedule (which is no way to experience a Chinatown, but it can come up).  That Soi 7 market alley is right beside Double Dogs, and a wholesale area selling all sorts of random goods is all located on the South side of Yaowarat near here.  The main evening street food vending options are in the same area, as a few herb shops are, which is a good place to stock up on an extra kilogram of chrysanthemum, if one is into that.

this is actually half the cafe (credit a FB page photo)

Monsoon (Asok branch Maps link): local branches of a vendor based out of Chiang Mai.  Most of their selection is flavored teas, presented as wild-origin source material (which they are, but what that means probably isn't completely obvious).  For people open to that range or curious about that theme it's definitely worth checking out.  

There had been a small stall sort of outlet in one of the malls at Phrom Pong, I think in Em Quartier, but the main branch is at Asok, way back in the system of sois (side streets), behind the parts of that area that everyone knows about.  That shop isn't right beside the red-light "Soi Cowboy" area, but not far (but it's safe anywhere in Bangkok, even after dark; no need to worry).  They had sold kombucha at a small cafe type section; that might be nice.  

If value is a main concern then Chinatown shops are a better option; teas are priced at above average market rates, for what they are.  The teas are unique enough that there really is no market rate, so they wouldn't turn up in Chinatown, but you get the idea, you can find equivalent quality teas for less elsewhere, just not the same styles.  There is less to sort out than at Chinatown too; even though the range is mostly flavored blends it's all consistent, where in Chinatown you really don't want to drink any of the below average quality versions, related to it being bad and potential risk of contaminants exposure.

Monsoon holds interesting informative events, like this one on biodiversity research

Dayi / Taetea shops:  the two I've visited in town both closed but there are at least a couple of others.  Google search would let you know where; I don't know, and only mention them here for completeness.  That's the name of one of the three main Chinese factory producers of sheng and shu pu'er, for people not already clear on that.  I don't think seeking out these shops would make sense for buying oolong, black, or green teas, but I did buy two nice pressed white tea cakes in one, shou mei and gong mei.

Grocery stores:  of course this doesn't work, but there must be something to add about this.  I bought a Dayi Jia Ji sheng pu'er tuocha in a specialty grocery store once; exceptions come up.  Of course there are other places to buy those (Sen Xing Fa sells them, from the rest of this list, and Yunnan Sourcing or King Tea Mall are good sources online).  The Thai oolongs grocery stores sell are typically not above average, and average quality range here isn't so great.  

In China it is possible to buy so-so factory sheng pu'er in grocery stores; I just tried part of a cake that's running low I bought in Shenzhen on a visit back in 2019, which was decent--relatively speaking--in spite of selling for next to nothing, around $10 per cake.  Here it's better to avoid all of it, and sheng wouldn't turn up anyway (that one time was the only time I've seen it, except for sheng pu'er tea bags, which I'm not going to dignify with discussion here).  You might be curious about what an inexpensive box of loose Thai oolong might be like, Shui Xian made in more of a Wuyishan style, but it would almost always be pretty bad.  It's better to buy such a thing at shops like Jip Eu or K. Mui Kee Tea.

New options / different themes:

Koto Tea Space (Maps link):  I've never been to this place, but a friend runs it, so it must be nice (and the local buzz is positive too).  It's themed around Japanese tea experience, with emphasis on the aesthetic side, two parts of tea experience I generally try to avoid.  A setting looking nice is fine, some wood paneling, plants, or a water feature, but once there is too much of an elaborate decoration theme or people are wearing robes I'm out.

visiting would be worth it to meet Pop, the owner (photo credit their FB page, from 2021)

Peace Oriental (Maps link to one branch):  I think an earlier attempt at making a theme like that at Koto Tea Space didn't work for Peace Oriental, and they're on to being more of a standard cafe now, selling blended flavored iced teas and such, as well as more traditional versions.  It could still be interesting, if your path takes you near a branch.  I might've only visited one branch of this chain one time; again I'm just not that into cafes.  If you spend $10 on a decent pot of tea you might as well add 10 more and buy a decent tuocha's worth, or a passable 100 or 200 gram amount.  

Everything I'm saying here is a biased and one-sided take, of course.  I'm not into style as a main attraction in tea shops, and marketing spin pushing pricing for good basic version options to double what they sell for elsewhere.  Some people value style, and a "curation" function can seem to add value, beyond simple tea quality in relation to price.

their older theme was all white space; on to an updated natural materials look

the outlet I visited, which may be closed now

Ong Yong Choon (that is a Maps link) / other local shops:  there are countless places selling all sorts of variations of teas in Bangkok, hundreds if you count bubble tea and matcha outlets, or maybe even thousands.  This place I've named is an old-style tea shop near Wat Pho (a main temple), or more specifically beside the flower market beside Wat Pho.  

More conventional examples would be new forms of cafes, which keep opening and closing every year.  I've heard of 3 or 4 new versions this year but I'm only mentioning places I've not been to here when it makes sense to, when I've heard enough about them to reliably pass on what they are probably like.

Ong Yong Choon, the owners (who are so nice, as I keep saying about everyone)

Traditional shops / Cha Tra Meu:  I've still not mentioned anything about the orange flavored Thai tea, or the versions that look like teh tarik in Malaysia (pulled tea, with added reference to pouring it back and forth), often brewed in what looks like a small wind sock.  Both are around, they're just different kinds of things than specialty loose tea.  If you are in a really old-style restaurant or food court and see that old form of brewing you should try it out, but it's just inexpensive black tea with sweetened condensed milk.

The orange flavored version is something else.  Ordinarily I don't like artificially flavored teas, and it definitely is that, but that is tasty.  There's a shop selling it--Cha Tra Meu, the main one--in the building where I work, and I've never bought a take-out or loose tea version there.  It's not taste preference that stops me from having it; I avoid eating processed sugar and artificially flavored foods.  For exceptions I'll eat donuts and ice cream sometimes, but not drinks that are full of sugar.  For people who are more open to that buying a tin of the flavored loose black tea might be good.  Dairy Queen here did a Thai tea flavor promotion at one point and it's for best for my health that was temporary; it was too good.

In talking to someone recently about why it seems like there are gaps in what is sold in shops here a few factors seem to combine.  Tea awareness and demand is limited, and Chinatown shops already cover that for people who have been into tea for awhile.  Online options increase, sales through Facebook pages, and large Thai tea interest groups / marketplaces are crowded with people selling lots of things (this is only one example).  

Some of those group posts would just be reselling the best of what is sold by small producers through Facebook pages, teas you could buy directly for less, and a lot of the rest would be Taobao or Alibaba purchases, a lot of which wouldn't be good tea, or selling at a good value.  Over time people would probably sort out which individuals are most reliable, and turn-over would weed out some of the least reliable options.  There are limited Western-facing online sales options; let's consider those.

Online:

Unfortunately the best Thai sheng is only available online, as far as I know.  I guess that's a good thing for people reading this who would never make it to Bangkok?  Wawee Tea is a good starting point, a main traditional producer, and Ming Dee is perhaps the other main producer option.  Those kinds of producers would have Facebook pages, or there are lots of online shops in the two main online sales platforms here, Shoppee and Lazada.  I'll skip looking up links here; people can Google search or look up blog posts here that contain those names.  

I didn't really intend for this section to mostly be about Thai sheng; it just worked out that way.  At least some of these outlet sell teas way beyond that range, even though I'm discussing sheng most here, and not the oolongs or black teas as much.  It's what I buy most of and drink myself.

Tea Side is the main Western-facing website outlet.  Value isn't great through them, with decent sheng selling for between 50 cents and $1 per gram, when you can find equivalent versions for far less if you put more effort into it.  For people who don't see spending $100 to 200 as much expense for a tea order, and don't care what that works out to in relation to $ / gram, then they're a great option.  

Their products are consistently good.  Sheng options are fine, or black teas are good, Dian Hong style versions from Thailand.  Aged tea options are also good, but that $200 won't go very far buying from that range.  Their small-batch shu versions are good, and a gui fei bug-bitten rolled oolong was nice in the past.

Let's make that summary more specific related to buying a young version of Thai sheng; what if you wanted to buy a moderate cost, most recent Thai sheng version they sell, how would that go?  There are two identically priced at the lowest cost, $70 for 200 gram cakes, both from 2018, this one a more bitter version.  It's not 50 cents a gram, but that is $130+ for a standard cake, nearly double in-house boutique style productions by other vendors, or 1 1/2 times the higher end of that range.  At that pricing you have a lot of options.  A 2021 version sells for $85 for 200 grams; close enough to that 50 cents a gram level.  It's just not the kind of outlet option where you find this year's tea selling at all, never mind related to style and pricing variations.

Rishi--the US wholesale vendor--sells cakes from different countries, including Thailand; that would be another decent option.  There must be other Western vendors selling Thai sheng, I'm just not familiar with any.  

Let's dig a little deeper; how good would quality and value be?  This is a 2022 Wawee origin sheng "pu'er" version, selling for $45 for 200 grams.  I've bought tea similar to this over the past two years, for slightly less, but $80-some for a standard cake amount is definitely still fair, depending on aspect range and quality.  They carry some Laos teas too; for people who aren't concerned about the $80 or so per cake price range I expect those would be interesting in character, and safe bets for quality level.

I can't say that their teas are definitely as good as Tea Side's, because that's too much generalization, but it's my guess that it comes down to preference instead of quality, and some people might like them more.  It can be natural to assume that pricing must correspond to quality level but varying outlets set pricing differently, and carry different options, and equating cost with probable quality level doesn't work.

Moychay Thai forest tea initiative:  I've written about trying a cake from Moychay's partnership operation in Thailand, with tea versions selling through their Netherlands outlet.  It's tempting to try to describe their teas in relation to what Rishi or Tea Side is likely selling, or Wawee Tea and Ming Dee versions, but it can introduce a lot of error to generalize across a lot of versions, when I've only tried one (or two?; maybe a loose version as well).  The quality of what I tried was quite good, the material was obviously high in potential, and while the style wasn't a complete match for Yunnan versions I liked it.

That theme applies to a lot of South East Asian sheng I've tried; often it's not produced in exactly the same style as Yunnan versions, often varying in ways that I like just as much.  Oxidation level can creep up a bit, maybe due to not rushing the processing steps to offset that, or maybe it's that hotter and more humid local conditions let the tea transition faster during the limited processing time.  Or maybe heating step, the sha qing / kill-green / pan frying step, is slightly different.  Teas can end up trading out some bitterness, astringency, and aging potential for extra sweetness, initial complex flavors, and approachability.  For a version that you plan to drink within 2 to 3 years that can actually be positive; for long-term aging it's not favorable at all.  

It's possible that Tea Side filters what they sell to match Yunnan styles better, so their higher pricing level could be justified, for some.  Or maybe they just charge more; I'm not implying that aging potential / style issue maps out like that across most versions, related to Tea Side matching Yunnan style and Moychay being more like local Thai versions, although it matches my past experiences.

I re-tried a favorite Thai sheng from 2022 just this week--from a local source that's hard to access, not one described here--and it was much different and just as pleasant as last year, not seeming to show great potential for 15-20 year aging, but to me a fantastic tea for drinking right now.  It was not just on par with but slightly better than what I've sampled from all of these other producers (per my preference; that's not intended as an objective judgment).

In terms of positive experience and quality that Moychay tea I tried was good; I think it would also hold its own in the now-standard $80 per standard size cake range, a pricing that's a bit high for me to buy or drink a lot of, even though it's quite standard.  

This autumn version from them sells for 13 Euro ($14--what's up with the exchange rate?), for a 200 gram cake, so that's still very favorable pricing.  Autumn versions give up a little intensity and tend to cost less but that's still a great deal.  They list that one as "green tea," which I think is a translation issue, but it really could be pressed green tea, even though that existing--a pressed cake of green tea--would be stranger than getting a translation wrong.  

This other cake sold as sheng is 239 Euros for a standard size cake (on towards $250).  So it goes with buying pu'er; you can accept what someone says online as input but you never really know until you're tasting the tea, especially if the person offering input hasn't tried a specific version.  Style variations throw off the "good / not good" objective judgments; my absolute favorite Thai sheng not all other pu'er drinkers would even like.  

To complicate things further you can try 2 or 3 versions from a producer and think that those must map to all that they sell, good or bad, but that can vary a lot too.  Buying what they price the highest probably bumps the chances that you'll try their best versions, but even that might not be consistent.  Demand for a type shifts pricing just as much as quality, and many vendors just apply a standard mark-up, so if they get a good or bad deal on material / products your cost can vary by that factor more than quality level.  The smaller the vendor and less direct their source connection the more that applies, but in general pricing mark-up is a commercial function instead of relating to a quality judgement; it can vary a lot.

Thai Oriental Beauty (Dong Fang Mei Ren)

 

On a shop visit outing a few weeks back the shop owner, of Ju Jen in Paradise Park (in Bangkok), gave me a sample of a Thai version of Oriental Beauty / Dong Fang Mei Ren.

It's been awhile since I've drank anything related to this tea type.  I've tried Thai versions before; in the notes I compare this version to those.  It could be a later version from a main Thai producer, or something else.  It was this shop outing:

Review:

First infusion:  a little light yet, but this is really nice.  The profile is just as it should be, including warm notes and cinnamon, and a fruit layer beyond that.  I think it will work better unpacking that as a list next round once it opens up more.  The feel is already rich and full, sweetness is great, and flavors are clean; this should be very well-balanced, intense, and refined.  There is already a creaminess effect, and pleasant aftertaste, even brewed light.

Second infusion:  I brewed this around 20 seconds to bump intensity and it definitely worked; it's much stronger.  Some warm mineral base tone and astringency even picked up, of course mild in form.  Cinnamon is really pronounced, one typical range for this category of tea.  Fruit is still a bit dominated by that.  It might include raisin, and a touch of citrus, along the line of dried orange or tangerine peel.  Sweetness resembles honey, seemingly coupled with that warm and rich flavor.

This is pretty good.  It has been quite awhile since I've tried any OB / DFMR versions but it had come up regularly in the past.  A decent average or slightly above average quality version expresses pleasant flavors, good sweetness, complexity, and pleasant feel, without negative aspects, and this is at least that good.  More refined versions can add even more intensity and complexity, more unusual flavor aspect range, or exceptional feel structure and aftertaste.  Balancing warmer tones and lighter fruit can be quite pleasant, as this accomplishes.  I'll try a slightly lighter brewed round and see how that changes effect.

It goes without saying that any brewing times are tied to proportion, that a much lower proportion 20 second infusion would be light, and with this maxed out a bit (maybe 7 grams in a 90 /100 ml gaiwan) 10 to 15 seconds is already quite a bit of infusion time.  Plenty of people would brew 4 or 5 grams instead, and still stick to that 10 to 15 second infusion time, at least for early rounds.

Third infusion:  this is even more pleasant brewed a little lighter; intensity comes across well, and brighter tones stand out more.  It's still undergoing round to round transition, so that factored in as well.  OB / DFMR doesn't tend to go through a cycle of changing a lot across rounds, but it can shift some.

That flavor list is what is showing through, cinnamon, honey, raisin, citrus, light warm mineral base, but that doesn't do justice to how pleasant or complex this tea is.  Rich feel adds an extra dimension, and it carrying over to a decent range of aftertaste lengthens and deepens the experience.  It's a much softer and more subtle experience than sheng pu'er blasting your palate, and carrying over to as strong an experience as tasting most teas, but it still conveys depth.  A tisane or varied spice aspect or note adds a little extra complexity, bordering on warm wood tone, in a pleasant form that balances well.

Fourth infusion:  shifting just a little in the proportion between those inputs but not changing too much.  The dried fruit tone shifts to become a little broader, and cinnamon fades just a little.  This might be closer to dried persimmon than raisin at this point.

So how good is this?  Hard to specify, especially for me not trying any of this tea type for years.  I think it's above average, even for Taiwanese standards, but with sourcing and tea grades varying it's hard to place what that means.  Quality and value end up being related to cost (and rarity, and whatever else), and I think this is not inexpensive tea, that it would probably push on past the 50 cents a gram level.  A main Thai plantation had made versions of this, and I suppose this could be that, and if so it might not be that expensive if purchased directly, but this is a good bit better than what I've tried from them of this type before.  Maybe they improved processing, or it was a particularly good year?  Or else this is from a much smaller producer; that would make sense.

I might mention how this could be better; that could help place it.  Feel and aftertaste are pleasant, and support the overall experience, but those could be dialed up quite a bit.  Intensity and complexity is fine, but this could be more refined, with even more intense fruit flavors, and distinctive spice notes (although a solid dose of cinnamon is a great start).  Citrus tone can give exceptional versions a little more pop than this has.  All that is splitting hairs, in relation to this being a generally pleasant and novel experience.  People get hooked on trying better and better versions though, and I think as more mainstream outlet products go this already is that, but there are more exceptional versions out there.

I didn't catch the backstory for this, or even a clear price, at least one that I remember.  We met in the shop where the owner had given me this sample, Ju Jen, with a few other people, and most discussion was between two or three others, and in Thai.  My Thai is ok for eavesdropping a bit, and basic conversation, but I also miss a lot.

Oxidation level is normal for this, up towards the edge of black tea range, or maybe even as oxidized as a light oxidation level black tea.  That's normal, and the main thing is that it works, and it does.

Fifth infusion:  it's good but fading a bit; from here I'll need to push this a little harder to maintain the intensity.  More oxidized or roasted teas often tend to express rich and novel flavors at the cost of not being as durable as "greener" versions.  This will keep going, for a number of infusions, but it seems its basic story has already been told.

It did produce a couple of very nice rounds using longer infusion times.  It's a good sign that flavor and character didn't seem off in any way, even for soaking it for awhile.

It seems like this has summarized and concluded enough already, so I'll skip adding an extra section here.  It seems pretty good.  Good is all relative, and there was that limited range for improvement, but this goes a bit beyond a basic decent version.

2016 Kokang Myanmar sheng and 2011 Mingdee Thai sheng

the Kokang version left, Mingdee right (in all photos)

In visiting a local tea shop a couple of weeks ago, Ju Jen in the Paradise Park mall, a tea contact I was there to meet shared a few teas with me, including these.  One is a 2016 Kokang Myanmar sheng, and the other a 2011 Mingdee Thai sheng.  I have two other versions of Kokang sheng around, part of one cake (2018, that was) and two small older cakes (I think from the same producer).  

Kokang is both an area in Myanmar and a producer name, if I've got that right.  The category name of pu'er doesn't necessarily apply to these, being from Myanmar and Thailand, but they're the same type of tea, made from the same general type of plants, related Assamica versions.  

Mingdee, the producer, rings a bell but I may have never tried any version from them.  I think them and Wawee Tea might be the two main producers, but the subject of Thai sheng keeps such a low profile it's hard to be sure.

that shop visit

Review:

2016 Kokang Myanmar sheng:  it's pleasant.  It has picked up good warmth and depth in the last 7 years, for sure.  The brighter floral notes are transitioned away but there is plenty to appreciate; complexity and balance are good.  It seems as well to turn that into more of a list on the second round.  Bitterness is non-existent but it will probably kick in more next round.

2011 Thai (Chiang Rai / Wawee) Mingdee:  generally pleasant but this may be right in the in-between age transition place where teas tend to go a bit quiet.  Pushing it later may help a little, but if it's at a point where former compound profile is half transitioned to different forms that may only go so far.  Again checking on a list of aspect will probably go better next round.

Kokang, #2:  nice!  This range is familiar.  Sweetness is good, and mineral base (in between light and warm, or maybe spanning both), with an earlier floral range (likely prominent earlier) now shifted to warmer tones, cedar wood, spice range, maybe a touch of warm dried fruit.  Whether or not this is a relatively optimum aging level for drinking this could vary by preference.  

The vendor sales page for the other Myanmar sheng I own (one of 3 versions) described it indirectly as good but not great, along the lines of typical for tea material like this.  That was from Chawang Shop.  Maybe this had slightly more complexity, intensity, and aging potential, so the other could be a little more faded at this point.  It would've made more sense to compare this tea with that but I really wanted to try both of these, and I have a few other teas around to get to.

Mingdee:  it's not bitterness that's ramping up but depth and mineral base really is.  This is clean and complex, just not overly intense.  I think it has great potential to age into a more subtle aged range, not the kind of tea that's still undrinkable after 12 years, but one that can finish transitioning in a few more, picking up more complexity in a different range.  

Mineral depth is unusual in this, for being so heavy and warm in tone, and for dominating the rest of the flavor profile.  I think that's partly an effect from the other flavors still shifting from younger to older form, so it seems quiet, because there is a broad range there, but all at a subtle level.  As younger and brighter tones finish dropping out the deeper and warmer ones will be more evident.  It might turn out like aged Yiwu sometimes does though, on the subtle side.  Those can go further into flavorless, if not well-suited for aging, but some might just be subtle, or I suppose others yet more intense as aged sheng than I've experienced.  I might have only ever tried a half dozen relatively fully aged Yiwu versions, so that sampling is too limited for broad generalizations.

Given that I'm reviewing 7 and 12 year old sheng versions the timing for this evaluation is a little off optimum; these would tell a more complete story in 5 more years.  Those small 2006 Kokang mini cakes, are surely not ready even for being 17 years old, so I've not been re-trying them yet.  That style seemed suitable for 25 years of aging, given how the hard pressed form will slow transition pace.  I'll still try one over the next few years but it won't be ready yet.

Kokang, #3:  there is definitely a very catchy flavor aspect that's common in Myanmar sheng, that I've not described here yet, and probably not done justice to pinning down elsewhere either.  In a younger version one would naturally see it as floral + light mineral, but there's a little more to it.  It might be a spice range sort of flavor, along the line of bay leaf.  I've used bay leaves in cooking but not very often, so that's partly a guess, which conveys some general range.

Mingdee:  this is still quite subtle but it's evolving in a positive way.  Heavy mineral is still present but other range is balancing with that more now.  It's more in an aged furniture range, a mix of aromatic wood tones and non-distinct aromatic oils.  A bit of cedar wood dryness and edge joins that, but it's not dry in feel, it just has a dry component.  Texture / feel will keep shifting over the next half-dozen years too.

Kokang #4:  this keeps improving; that's always nice.  Depth and the way it integrates gets better and better.  That one hint of harder to define aspect seems to have a shifted to include a touch of lemon; it balances well with the rest.  It doesn't have the richest feel, or much aftertaste at all, but the feel it does express is positive.  There are no flaws, and the balance works; it's hard to place how those enter in as positive inputs.

Mingdee:  maybe fading just a little, although that probably relates to variations in infusion time, which I don't track closely.  There is nothing new to add.  I have a couple of things to do so I'll try one more infusion and quit the notes, even though these aren't quite halfway finished yet.  I'll steep a little longer so I'm not commenting that this is hard to place, which will probably shift results a little again.

Kokang #5:  this is quite pleasant.  That touch of citrus (lemon), light spice background, nice mineral base, mix of warmer and lighter tones all integrates really well.  It could easily seem disjointed or at an awkward phase instead; maybe in another 2 or 3 years it will be like that.  I'm not sure this has great aging potential, to be honest.  Intensity is fine at this stage but as it swaps lighter for heavier range that may fade, and it's not that intense now, for a 7 year old sheng.  

I might prefer to drink this particular tea aged 3 or 4 years, back when it hit a little harder, and retained more younger notes, but had lost a lot of it's more youthful challenging rough edges.  It's good now though, I just don't know if it would be better or worse in 7 more years.  There's a good chance it will fade (just a guess, of course).

Mingdee:  more or less the same as it had been, mixing the same aspects described in earlier rounds, with proportion and overall effect not changing too much.  At least this is really clean in effect; there are no flaws from storage inputs or original negative character.  Limitations only seem to relate to what wasn't present initially, to the potential it had for aging.  

I think this would be quite good in 5 or 6 more years, but that's only if someone likes subtle aged sheng, versions where intensity is quite low, and rich feel carries the weight of a lot of what you experience.  The warm flavor tones and mineral base won't completely drop out but with this being limited in intensity as a 12 year old tea I'd expect it to be on the subtle side as an 18 year old version.  Which is ok, if someone is really on that page.  

It's more natural for me to prefer versions with lots more intensity that need a little more time to complete transition.  Those sorts of "challenging when young" versions, that aren't quite there at 18 years old, develop great depth, good balance, complexity, and really interesting flavors, but only at closer to 25 years old.

For drinking at this stage it's still pleasant.  That touch of dryness doesn't come across as overly negative, and the flavor balance isn't bad.  It not being optimum relates to an imagined potential, not a real experiential gap, beyond what isn't in the cup right now.

Myra visits while I do the tasting

Conclusions:

It was interesting trying two very different tea versions, again.  It's interesting how the much younger one worked better in the current aspects balance than the older version, per my preference.  There is a common perception related to sheng pu'er that older is better.  To me every version has an optimum transition level, but that can only be defined in relation to someone's individual preference. 

For focusing mainly on aspects and only doing tangents on aging potential and likely earlier changes it seems like I've not fully addressed how much I like these.  This style of Myanmar tea, and the distinctive aspects that seem tied to there, I really do like.  Familiarity alone might make it more pleasant, and it fits in with what I've been drinking most and liking more recently.  I drank half a small cake of that one related Myanmar tea about a year ago, a tea I took to Honolulu to drink regularly there.  It's not tied back to the same producer, but very similar in character. 

The other might seem somewhat related to all the Thai sheng I've been drinking, but the style was probably different to start, and I'm not regularly drinking any from a 12 year old age range.  To me this probably isn't a completely ideal tea for long term aging, but then it probably wasn't in a very approachable when young style either, more in the middle.  That doesn't make it bad, but it loses a little.  

It may be at its best aged in the 16 to 18 year range, or at least relatively already peaked then, perhaps better yet at 25 to 30 years old, but also not so different.  If this had spent more time in Bangkok it might be more fermented (transitioned) now, but to be clear I don't know where it stayed.  It doesn't seem like it started as a very challenging version, so maybe not completely unlike the ones I drink now, or it would still have more for rough edges, beyond a bit of extra dryness.  The North is still tropical but not as consistently hot and humid as here; not even close.

Both were pleasant and interesting to try.  Both are much appreciated; it's nice having a local friend who shares teas like these.

another small shop in Bangkok, off Soi 6 in Yaowarat (Chinatown), not related to this post

the market alley it's in

Lincang and purple sheng pu'er from a local Bangkok shop

I visited a local shop recently to connect with an online contact, the Ju Jen Tea shop in the Paradise Park mall (out towards the airport and Bangna; out there).  I've been to an earlier iteration of that shop, and mentioned it in this blog many years ago, when they were in a smaller food court stall.  Now it's a conventional shop, still in that food court zone.

It was very nice hanging out at that shop, and meeting other local tea enthusiasts, and the owner, who is very kind, and a gracious host.  I recommend visiting there.

for sure there is a lot to explore in that shop

This will be mostly about the tea, but the background of it will be sparse.  One I only know as a 2017 purple material version, and the other I think is from Lincang, and it probably has a date on an inner wrapper.  That's going to be it for tea background.  We weren't talking a lot about these particular teas, and I tried a 1980s shu and some very high end Chinese green tea while there, a sample another guest brought, the kind of tea that sells for over $5 a gram.  That's too much, of course, but so it can go with rare and well-regarded teas in China.  It was pleasant, at least.

I just wrote a review yesterday (the notes) about an 80s Liu Bao version from Thailand, and it keeps occurring to me that I don't value stories and background enough to make rare and exceptional teas stand out so much to me.  If the tea is good it's good, but the moment doesn't necessarily become more special in relation to backstories, and I'm not swept up in extra feelings.  If I see people wearing robes or martial arts clothing it all becomes that much more absurd to me, instead of venturing into special event range.  To be clear I wasn't offended or put off by that shop owner dressing the part; it's fine.  But at the most it doesn't mean anything to me.

On with the tasting part then.  I won't cross reference other experience all that much, because I don't have a Lincang standard aspects range in mind to compare this to, and I may have only ever tried two purple leaf tea versions before, not counting a commercial black tea version from Kenya, which is really something else.  The one brick I bought of that was a bit sour; it will be interesting to see if that's consistent in this.  If it relates to two versions being sour that doesn't mean that purple teas in general are.  They are said to be fruity in an unusual way, a bit towards grape (and often a little sour); I'll keep an eye out for that.

The Lincang (if it is that) has 2021 written and stamped on the label; that had been under a desiccant pack wrapped within a plastic outer seal.  Intuitively one would drink the lighter tea first, which I would guess would be the purple one, but I'll reverse that to use the more standard tea as a baseline for comparison.

Review:

Lincang:  too light to get a complete sense of this round, but it's already quite pleasant, sweet and complex.  This is going to be nice.  There is a lot going on for flavor, plenty of floral range, and a catchy mild fruit tone, a little towards bubble gum.  It seems disrespectful putting it that way; that wouldn't be a conventional interpretation.  I'll do more of a flavor list next round.

Purple:  That's just crazy.  There is a substantial amount of sourness to that, even brewed light.  An odd mineral base range grounds it too, warm tones, that are quite unusual.  Feel includes a touch of dryness, astringency that would make as much sense in a black tea version.  It's the rest of the flavor that is most unique; I'll have a go at capturing it in a flavor list next round.

Lincang, second infusion:  there's that bitterness, quite pronounced this round.  I really like the way this floral effect comes across.  It's intense.  Sweetness is very pronounced, and the flavor range carries over very nicely as a aftertaste.  If someone told me this was a high quality tea version from an exclusive and in-demand area I'd be inclined to believe it.  If I've got the story right it's from a village area that's not one of the main, known areas (translated through someone else from the shop owner, so who knows).  

It's hard to go further than "floral" for description; that's it.  I might do more with specifying which types of flowers, but I'm not good at that.  It's sweet, complex, and very aromatic, let's say most like orchids (just a guess).  It's heavy, towards lavender, but not quite that rich and deep a flavor range.

Purple:  this is really crazy.  I let both brew a bit long, around 20 seconds, and infusion strength is too high for this version, just not the other; funny it worked out that way.  It has a dry edge to it.  Too dry; I'll need to go quite light on the next round and brew around that.  The odd fruity flavor is cool, different, but ruined by that feel in this proportion.  I wonder if this isn't a bit oxidized?  It's crazy that it ends up feeling like that, completely unconventional for any sheng version.  It's essentially outside of conventional tea range, as if this is some sort of tisane.

Lincang, third infusion:  similar, very floral, with plenty of bitterness, and a rich, full feel.  For anyone not ok with bitterness this would be quite challenging, but for me it's ok.

Purple:  it's more approachable brewed fast and light, but still strange, in a way that's more bad than good.  The flavor is interesting; maybe that does taste a bit like grape.  Not exactly like grape jelly, but more like the old grape juice.  Concord grape?  My great grandfather had a grape vine and those had that one strong and interesting grape flavor, with a really strong and dry feel to the skin.  A little like this, I guess.  

Sheng being dry is just odd.  It's hard to place what real tea is anything like this.  It's like tasting some kind of metal, like tasting a galvanized roofing nail.  It's a little sour too.  I can't say that it's good but at least it's interesting.  It's a little like the flavor and feel of eating unripe mango, which I had with breakfast.  I love ripe mango more, and don't tend to even buy the other range, but versions had some yellow skin color, along with being mostly green, so I bought three to try them.  They're sweeter than most unripe mango but still quite sour, with a dry feel, not completely unlike this tea.

I bought a Thai wild origin material cake made by Kittichai of Jip Eu (that shop owner) that's quite sour, made from wild growing plant types that I doubt are all conventional Assamica.  I bought a second cake version of it, even though it's hard to get a feel for how much I like that, so that I can see how it ages.  I'm not even drinking the first cake much, so I have at least half left, a half dozen years later.  That second cake I'll probably have still intact in another decade.  It would be nice if it somehow ages unusually well but my guess is the opposite, that it won't change as much as conventional tea, and the intensity will just fade, more than warmer tones will evolve.

Lincang, 4th infusion:  brewing both these fairly quickly, around 10 seconds, works well for this tea version.  When we tried teas at that shop they were brewed even lighter, wispy thin, which is one normal preference range.  Somehow that makes it even easier to identify flavor range, but feel mostly drops out (mouthfeel, I mean; who knows about cha qi).  I guess that I like a medium strength infusion that many would consider brewed strong, which varies along with what suites a tea.  

This has plenty of intensity, complexity, sweetness, bitterness, and rich feel to come across well brewed light.  It balances well made that way.  Again this wouldn't be light to everyone, just normal to many.

These are the worst flavor-list interpretations of any teas I've reviewed for ages; they reduce to "floral" and then "sour and dry in feel."  I was talking to my kids while writing those notes.  They sometimes play video games while we talk, so doing something else while I talk can work out, but it's distracting.

I haven't done justice to describing a vegetal range input in this.  It's kind of a green wood tone, not completely different than the pronounced range in that favorite Thai sheng I drink all the time, the one from Aphiwat, but that's more like plant stem, and this is plain green wood.  Strong aftertaste is pleasant; the experience doesn't diminish after you swallow it, and the form of that aftertaste is pleasant, very sweet and rich, all floral range.

Purple:  this makes the most sense that it has so far.  Warm tones join in, along with the dominant sourness and dry feel.  There's an inky character to that extra flavor, overlapping with mineral range, but going well beyond that too.  It reminds me of the smell of a tar based shingle on a hot day, not exactly like tar, but based completely on it.  It's odd how a construction theme has evolved in tasting this, all based around roofing.  If you could taste the experience of putting a new shingle roof on a house this would be it.  Then it's a separate question if that's a good thing.

Interpreted differently that could be incense spice that's picking up, something along the line of frankincense.  It sounds better, that this is like drinking the experience of smelling incense, instead of brewing up roofing materials.  A lot of that flavor is captured in mineral tone range too, what your tongue identifies, so it's not just the aromatic range.  It's actually pleasant, this round.  The others less so; the experience has evolved to become more approachable.

Lincang, 5:  this will be it for notes; my patience is running out.  This is the most pleasant this tea has been; it's softening and gaining depth in a very pleasant way.  I would guess it has a few more rounds like this in it too, that it will be exceptional for another 4 or 5 infusions, before it ends up fading some.  Even then this might make another 10 rounds; it's pretty strong tea.  This has been a pleasant surprise, better than I expected.  I think this is quite good tea.

Purple:  this is the best it has been too; that dry feel keeps fading, and sourness diminishing as a main input.  It's fruitier now, more along the lines of grape, I guess.  That might be from the power of suggestion, that I was expecting that.  It's nice how that fruit integrates with what is more of an aromatic spice range aspect now.  It could as easily make no sense together, but the two link together quite well.  

For novelty this is much more interesting than the other version.  In relation to being judged in relation to standard sheng character range this is off the map, while the other is in a favorable range.  These have both been interesting and pleasant.  It's nice this evolved as favorably as it did, so I can conclude that.  Two rounds ago it would've left off at at least being interesting.

Conclusions:

Two really interesting and pleasant teas.  I didn't mention value yet; that's another part of the story.  If I'm remembering right the Lincang version was about 350 baht, or $10, and the purple material version was 800 or so, so just over $20.  These were a good value for that.

Then it's interesting how I like the Lincang version quite a bit more, and how it matches standard good quality sheng more.  That's how it would go though, that the complete novelty of the other being purple leaf material could raise the cost.  It's older too, but I doubt that improved it much, or would even in another decade or more.

It's interesting considering that the Lincang version would cost about $35 for a standard cake size; that's fantastic, for what this tea is.  Then it makes sense that it's from an off area, not a place of origin in high demand, so it could be sold for a good value even though the quality and character really stand out.

All that is relative though, right?  It's better than most of what I normally drink, but for being on a tight tea budget the 50 cents to $1 a gram range is inaccessible to me.  The Thai sheng I've been drinking isn't easy to place on a quality scale, in relation to Yunnan versions, because the style is slightly different, and that changes everything.  The material used to make Aphiwat's versions is clearly amazing, but it's still a little unusual in style.  I love it, but then others might not even like it.

This purple leaf tea is all the more like that; some sheng drinkers might love it, and others hate it.  It definitely works for novelty.  It would be interesting doing a comparison tasting of this along with the "probably not Assamica" version I mentioned buying from Kittichai.  Both are a bit sour, both somewhat challenging.  This purple version seems much better after the initial 5 infusions or so, which is odd.  That kind of thing is normal for rough edged, really-should-be-aged younger sheng versions, but for those a more conventional form of astringency and bitterness would settle over some rounds, not this completely atypical version of those.

A lot of people might think that they really should go back and get more of that Lincang.  It's too far of a drive, on the opposite side of town, and in general I'm fine with getting to what I get to in teas.  It would be nice to have 3 or 4 more of these tiny cakes, and if I made it back out there I would buy at least a couple, but I can live without them.  With just a few minor changes to that character it would have amazing aging potential, if the feel structure was just a bit more developed, and intensity dialed up just a little.  As it is the tea is quite good now and will continue to be for quite awhile, maybe on into when it is aged, but that's harder to guess.