What does it mean when tea versions aren't type-typical?

 

an atypical wild origin Thai oolong, left, and a more standard Oriental Beauty (DFMR) version

This is something I've been giving a lot of thought to lately.  I just re-tried a Thai oolong that doesn't match an established oolong style closely (based on Assamica material; one might expect that), and realized that it's quite pleasant in a completely different way (than related to standard oolong range).  

I would've said that in the review (from a month or so ago), but somehow what it means to me has changed in that month, or at least I'm working back through it again.  Looking back that tea was reviewed along with a Jin Xuan cultivar based Dong Fang Mei Ren (OB) version; that's not completely typical either.

Often how I frame ideas in very specific communication helps, when I respond to a group post theme, or when I'm discussing an issue with a friend or producer.  Drawing on that form, this is what I've recently said to a producer about this subject, about that oolong:

I just had the rest of that oolong with breakfast, and it's quite pleasant.  One thing I've been considering lately is that my expectations about teas being "type-typical," about matching styles I expect, may limit how much I can appreciate some versions.  I've been considering this for a long time, but I'm seeing it in a new way recently, related to having a lot of experiences with that theme.

I don't mean that I described that tea negatively, when I shouldn't have.  What I mean is that everyone's expectations would be colored by that, to some extent.  How well people like teas that don't match a specific style closely may relate to maturity of their tea experience.  It would take a long time to learn how different styles are expressed, then even longer to move past that as a main framework for evaluating teas.  I'm not finished with the second part, I don't think.

For more background, I've been using Moychay tea versions as comparison in some recent posts, because they sent some samples to review (as in that post).  Some of them are very pleasant, but not completely type-typical, usually only related to a single aspect not completely matching, so not that far off.  Or in that case presenting an OB version made from a different plant type (variations of Qing Xin are more normal, I think, but this isn't a key point in this content, and maybe that's not right).

I try to express that this kind of variation isn't necessarily negative, since some people would like many kinds of changes better, but at the same time a very close match to expectations could be positive in a limited way, in that it's what someone is probably often trying to buy.  And if they want to have the most typical experience related to building up awareness of types that works better.

That Assamica based oolong included a touch of atypical roasted input flavor, and the feel is structured differently.  It's all exactly what one would expect from wild-origin, different plant type tea (from variety Assamica instead of Sinensis, as most oolong is produced from).

The wild origin material theme really changes a lot.  In many cases oolongs are made from controlled genetics cultivars, for example from Jin Xuan, from #12 in a series of identified, cross-bred tea types (most typically produced as a light style, rolled form oolong).  Even teas made from traditional, older, conventionally established plant types--oolongs from Taiwan, Anxi, Fujian, and Guanzhou China, as types of Tie Guan Yin, Wuyi Yancha versions, and Dan Cong--would tend to be a limited range of things.  Cultivar genetics wouldn't be controlled, but plant types would tend to be similar, or would vary across a narrow range (which is two ways of saying the same thing, those last statements).

A plant growing out in a forest doesn't change it's genetics, but plant types can evolve and drift a bit as different plants die and are naturally re-initiated.  They can cross-breed themselves, more or less.  Maybe having a lot of other varying vegetation around changes outcome quite a bit, as many believe, but that's something else.

So far this is heading towards an assumed conclusion that we should also appreciate aspects and styles as they are, instead of filtering our enjoyment into narrow style and type preferences.  But why?  That kind of works, but neither extreme seems necessary, or intuitively right.

Processing inputs are something else, that we would consider differently.  Producers evolve production processes over time, grouped into distinctive approaches and styles, and in the best cases what works best gets carried on, and what doesn't is filtered out.  So these traditional final-outcome styles represent that, as the most possible outcome that producer feels that they are able to achieve.  

Broad preferences for styles and aspects can still vary over time.  For whatever reasons a lot of higher level oxidation and roast input to different types of oolongs, from different areas, has been getting unselected, with lighter styles becoming more dominant.  This isn't a recent trend; Marshal N wrote quite a bit about this in his early "A Tea Addict's Journal" blog.  That was mostly critique of modern "nuclear green" Tie Guan Yin being unfavorable, not as pleasant as traditional more oxidized and roasted versions, and not as favorable for your stomach (per his take, but there's a lot of truth to be considered in almost everything he says, or said).  But he also must have made other comparable observations about other types and styles, at different points.

I recently tried a Dan Cong that was made in that older style--assuming that one accepts what I've described as a broadly applicable and accurate generalization, which probably doesn't completely work--and it was very favorable.  That review was here, which compared that to a much lighter style Dan Cong version.  So why don't producers stick with earlier styles that seem so pleasant?

that second one is a little light, right?

Maybe it relates to preferences shifting over time.  Maybe the additional processing steps add difficulty, without bringing additional sales draw, in terms of increasing demand and selling price.  I don't really know; I would expect that causes and conditions are complicated.

This concern makes teas falling within limited types and styles being "type-typical" a moving target.  Could Assamica (plant type) material based oolong ever become conventional?  It seems unlikely, but it could become more established.  Could a broad demand for a lot of more oxidized and roasted oolongs become common again?  Sure, that seems more likely.  Or maybe that never actually dropped out, but producers and vendors were able to sell really light versions for a long time, in high volume, even though perhaps a broad sub-set of tea consumers didn't ever want that.

My overall favorite oolong producer, Wuyi Origin, favors a fairly light style, in general.  But then they also produce oolongs in a range of different styles, related to all of the inputs, so they can serve a broad audience with different preferences that way.  They are pretty good about accurately describing styles of what they sell, stopping short of a long flavor list breakdown, which I think makes sense.  People only need a sense of what they are buying, not a complete and detailed interpretation, which can vary by person anyway.

What else comes up related to these recent reviews; what can I pass on from them?  At times one aspect that seems like a very limited negative, perhaps even a flaw, can seem to affect a final judgment in a disproportionate way.  I think it's possible to focus too much on an ideal, and hold expectations that are too prone to ranking experiences, instead of just appreciating what is positive.  

As an example, a black tea recently didn't express complexity across a broad flavor range in the earliest couple of infusions, and then as it evolved later that filled back in (very recently; I just posted that while editing this).  The tea became very balanced and positive.  I'm not sure why it brewed like that, over those rounds.  

Evaluated against expectations of superior quality, specific style, and balance across all dimensions that could seem like a significant flaw.  But then maybe in some cases expectations evolve to make allowance for just this kind of thing, in terms of personal favorites.  Let's go with an example of that.

Dian Hong is my favorite range of black tea, Yunnan styles, which tend to not be all one thing, even though people would use the category bundling in different ways.  Sometimes versions include a lot of pleasant depth, but not as much pronounced forward flavor intensity.  I can still absolutely love versions like this, even though it sort of represents a significant limitation.  

a Moychay Dian Hong (right), recently compared with a Thai black tea

Such a tea might express pleasant cacao, dried fruit, roasted yam, or roasted sweet potato flavor, but in a limited intensity, with a lot of mineral depth (to add some specifics to that).  My take is that the Assamica material used to make such tea is often used to make pu'er in the spring and fall, and a summer harvest, that is weaker in intensity, is often used to make that black tea type.  So a spring harvest version of the exact same tea would be more complex and intense; it would be an example of a limitation.  But in some cases the tea can still work well anyway.  In a strange twist it would still be "type-typical," the theme I've been covering, because this is a normal way for Dian Hong to be.

So maybe I'm more open to that limitation because I expect it, based on having a range of related earlier experiences?  That seems strange.  As I experience it the tea style still just works.  The extra depth adds a different kind of complexity.  

To be clear here I'm using "depth" to mean that I automatically associate parts of the tea flavor experience in a physically represented way, with forward, intense, aromatic flavor aspects (fruit, floral range, whatever it is) as higher, and mineral or earthy "base" flavors as lower, and deeper.  I don't think that imagined spatial analytic form is necessary, or that it adds much to the experience, it's just how I've came to "see" tea experience.

pressed Da Hong Pao oolong (reviewed here); some novel presentation themes really work out

Conclusions

Where am I going with this?  As I try more examples that aren't completely type-typical I feel as if I'm changing how my own expectations relate to my own enjoyment of teas.  Calling that "maturity" imposes a value assessment framework I really don't intend (in a comment earlier here), but there's not another readily available concept to use for this.  I'm associating this with a part of a natural experience curve, and of course others would experience their own understanding and preferences shift in different ways instead over time.

Earlier in my tea exploration and communication I would ask others, through this kind of writing, to add their own perspective in comments.  That essentially never happens.  But I'll stick with these ideas, and see if they keep changing over time, and if my experience of different ranges of tea styles does.

As I try the rest of that oolong version, the later steeps, past a half dozen in count, I'm really enjoying it.  The feel structure is interesting, evolved to be rich and full, and smooth.  The flavor is unique.  A roasted input aspect gives it an almost almond-like character, with other vegetal tone one might interpret in different ways, positively as roasted grain, or barley, and more negatively as cured wood (depending on how they see it).  

It's nice.  But it absolutely doesn't match any typical form of oolong I'm familiar with, and I've drank quite a bit of oolong.  

To put this conclusion another way, I think it's possible to get stuck in the habit of looking for standard tea type experiences, and to experience minor flaws, or even what isn't present, as overly important, which reduces your ability to appreciate what is there, and is positive.

Vietnamese Assamica based oolongs, reviewed here

The political war extended to movie themes in the US

 

At first glance everyone already knows how this is going to play out:  there are conservative or liberal oriented movies, and then people on the corresponding side of the US political divide will watch one or the other, and reject the other.  That happens.  But there's a little more to it now.  There is a tendency for a middle group to reject anything remotely like Hollywood liberal inclinations, among people who aren't actually politically conservative.  At least that's how I see things playing out.

The early steps are well-known enough.  In movies like the Star Wars sequels, or Terminator sequels, or later Marvel movies, they tend to build up female protagonists, by "nerfing" or weakening male characters, and gender swap characters, to make white characters into minorities.  Of course this is regarded as fair and inclusive by some, or many, liberals, and rejected by conservatives.

There's a lot less to cite about the opposite trend.  Hollywood is liberal-oriented, so an example of a movie just for conservatives is harder to come up with.  Let's check with Google on that:

Major Hollywood studios rarely label or market films as explicitly "conservative," but 2025 saw a notable rise in mainstream faith-based projects, military/action features, and traditional values narratives. Notable examples include David from Angel Studios, alongside faith-themed and traditional family hits like The Chosen and House of David.

Right, I've never heard of those.  I saw a 20 year old (or so) time travel movie about conservative Christian ideology awhile back; it was odd seeing anything like that.  I had to look up what that was:  Time Changer, from 2002.  It was interesting at least seeing that opposing view, that people might re-adopt values from the 1800s (reject swearing, wearing more modest clothing, all the parts of a very literal interpretation of the Bible, etc.).

Let's skip ahead:  this is mostly about the reactions to the Christopher Nolan Odyssey film.  Of course, since they've replaced Helen of Troy with a black actor, and included a trans-man as a Greek warrior the issue is that it includes liberal signaling.  But the movie is kind of neutral, related to the rest of it, per reviews on both sides.

That brings up an interesting context:  more conservative viewers might either decide to never see the film, because of those issues, or if they did see it would need to find reasons to dislike it, even if ordinarily it would seem like a good movie to them.  That's simple enough.  You can just dislike the story treatment, the character development, any changes from the original Greek myth version, and so on.  And more liberally oriented viewers can find plenty to like as well, to justify why this socially progressive film is good, not only for being socially progressive, but also as a film.

There is a set of Youtubers who benefit quite a bit from this divide, by outlining why the liberal orientation is a bad thing, for viewers who want to feel common ground with others related to disliking that.  The twist is that they're not only conservatives (the viewers, or the Youtubers).  The guy who makes the Critical Drinker Youtube channel stands out among them, related to popularity, and to quality of content (authored by Will Jordan, the name of "the Drinker," per online inpu).  

He communicates clearly, and expresses ideas well.  His perspective seems fine, although it does tend to become repetitive.  His image gimmick is that he is Scottish, and drinks while watching films (supposedly; he has sort of moved beyond that early branding theme, although he still does reference it).

I see his perspective as matching one part of a "classic liberal" view.  This relates to someone who was liberal in the 1980s or 90s, but who then fell into a middle ground for political perspective when the left shifted further left.  There is one other complication to this:  it's normal for people to be more liberal when younger, and then more conservative when older.  This seems to happen for some of the reason I've just described, that society keeps changing, and when people fall behind the pace of the changes they are automatically a conservative.  I'll give an example.

My parents were quite liberal in the 1970s.  They were open to people of all races, nationalities, and social classes being regarded as equal.  My dad was even a social worker; that was his career.  But then as acceptance for people being gay became mainstream in the 1990s, and not just different races, that was harder for them to adopt.  A couple of my close friends were gay, and they never seemed to express disapproval for that, but they still saw people being attracted to the same sex as somewhat unnatural.

Is it possible that it is unnatural?  The question only makes sense within a conservative worldview, that can draw on categories of natural norms, instead of seeing these as assigned by society, and open to change over time.

So they don't really hate gay people, but aren't comfortable with that theme.  It's the same as for others who can't relate to transgender self-definition today, or people being gender neutral, or whatever else.  People who were liberally oriented in the 90s didn't have to accept these later designations, because they were either unheard of or very uncommon then.

I suppose some of this carries over to other minority issues, related to immigrants and such, or maybe to issues related to openness to societal class level changes, but I won't make this discussion more complicated than it has to be.  Feminism also works out to be a complicated topic.  Of course where I'm from, a conservative rural area, in Western Pennsylvania (not that it matters; rural areas are fairly culturally consistent in the US), people are more racist, and against any of the modern progressive agenda and perspective, and for most probably even the older forms of it (classic racism).

Related to that film, the Odyssey, it was interesting how the Critical Drinker, and others, were up against the challenge of explaining why they didn't like it.  It should be easy, right; any parts of the plot or character development could be regarded negatively.  Or the lighting, the action sequence development, use of CGI, and so on.  But in this case most reviewers felt that it's a pretty good film, so lots of that wouldn't work.

The Critical Drinker settled on the portrayal of the main character as the main critique, related to how Matt Damon acted out Odyssius.  Not so much as a personal criticism of Matt Damon's acting, but more the direction.  Even pro-liberal reviewers said that his character is a bit war-weary and one dimensional related to character depth, for most of the movie, so it was simple enough, and a natural choice.  Then the ending apparently doesn't match the original version, so that's easy to dislike.  And the scenery apparently doesn't look like Greece, which would mean more to me if I'd actually been to Greece (parts related to there; I guess Troy was in North-Eastern Africa, so generally near the Middle East, sort of?).

original source cited in the image, worldhistory.org

It's an interesting divide, coupling "classic liberals" with conservatives, related to one part of their media preference.  Maybe they're not so far apart, in terms of general perspective and worldview?  The US isn't set up for there to be any moderate middle ground though, politically.  People are suppose to be conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican.  Lots of media tone reinforces this.  Trump throws that off a bit, for being so extreme, but in general the society really does break along that line, and media content does, related to news, television shows, movies, etc.

Then one other irony is that Trump isn't really a conservative.  He doesn't care about guns rights, or abortion, or really even about minority issues, although he can play the role of a borderline racist easily enough.  He is pro-Trump, and the rest is flexible.

So what does this mean?  Does this odd part of the culture war open up a space for moderate perspective?  Probably not.  It's just an idiosyncrasy, related to how some films work out, which I suppose would carry over to streamed television content.

These commentators aren't really leveling out the cultural field, in terms of saying that it's fine for people to be trans-gender, or that racial issues shouldn't matter anymore.  It's easy to interpret them as saying the opposite, even though they're not, supporting negative views on racism and transgender acceptance (with negative here meaning bad, being racist, or transphobic).

They earn Youtube views and income by saying what people want to hear.  They really do think that Helen of Troy shouldn't be a black character, and that casting a physically small trans man as a soldier doesn't really make sense.  But they're not necessarily racist or transphobic, or unusually supportive of  race or trans acceptance issues, more kind of in the middle, not particularly concerned with these themes, or against them.  It's easy to take that in different ways, as a viewer, depending on your own biases.  

That's how the 90s went; these things weren't issues, and people let others be however they wanted to be.  You could change your gender back then, and you wouldn't be hated, or seen as some sort of progressive champion.  You'd have been a social role and status outlier, which wouldn't have been regarded as good or bad, by most people.  Conservatives would have found it off-putting, as they do today.  For liberals it couldn't have seemed as normal, since it wasn't as conventional, but it still could have seemed fine.

It's interesting how "political correctness" has changed since, although it doesn't really shift the landscape of these ideas or positions all that much.  Words like "oriental" became regarded as negative (pejorative), and fell by the wayside.  The pronoun theme became complicated.  None of all of that changed the world and personal perspectives all that much though; even among supporters it was regarded as the language simply catching up to modified and updated perspectives.  Sometimes the changes don't stick, and they seem like overreach in retrospect, but often they do.

Odysseus

I finally saw Odysseus, so I can compare my take to what "the Drinker" commented.  I wanted to like it more than I did.  Parts were great, especially the visuals and action scenes.  It was a bit dark; there was no need for that part of the Mediterranean to all look like a Batman movie, matching Gotham in dark tone.  It was slow.  

The characters didn't do much for me.  Odysseus was traumatized by war; that was his only emotion and communicated theme for two thirds of the movie.  Athena did so little that she could've been a PTSD flashback, as some have speculated.  She might have asked a couple of leading questions but essentially she just looked sad.  It doesn't work to use one of the most powerful gods, and the only one actually on screen, to just look sad.  The gods existed in that world, but they only caused storms.

It would have been much better as a standard action movie. Characters could have been likeable and had some depth when playing a more standard role.  Tone could've been more varied, not just dark and tense.  The change of the ending was for the worse; it made no sense.  Odysseus traveled for 10 years to get home only to turn around and take another open ended, unplanned voyage immediately, seemingly within a day or two of getting home, or at least a few days.

The feminist oriented theme that women should be allowed to run a country worked, as a queen.  But it was awkward having Tom Holland's character be 18 or 19 in the movie, and look like 30, and being too young to be a king, until he was designated the new king at the end.

In one sense this doesn't change that conservatively oriented media channels need to arrive at the right conclusions, to dislike left-leaning content like this.  So little of this Odysseus film needed to be "liberal" that it was a shame for them to have included it.  Helen of Troy could've been white, as a Greek would be, and using a trans actor added nothing, beyond that controversy.  Without that baseline going in reviews would probably still be similar, but that one third of the potential audience would be more open to liking the film.

Assam green and silver needle teas

 

Not long ago I reviewed an exceptional quality version of Assam whole-leaf black tea, sent by a producer friend Maddhurjya to enjoy and to review.  These were sent with it, a green and silver needle version.  They look amazing, and they should be amazing.

As with the first post I'll keep the back-story here to a minimum.  Maddhurjya started working on exploring better quality tea production, new types of processing and equipment use, and organic tea production quite a number of years ago.  He might've been somewhat new to it when we first met, something like a half dozen years ago, but he was making quite good tea then, and it has only improved since.  There's more on him and that project is on FB and Instagram.

It's now on a level with better teas from anywhere else.  The highest end Chinese teas tend to draw on an older and more developed tea tradition, with the absolute best tea versions the result of many decades of tea growing and processing, or really centuries, so the absolute highest quality Chinese teas tend to have an edge on others from elsewhere, but that matters more for some tea types.  Black and green teas are more basic in general style (as I see it), and white (the silver needle) is the least processed broad type, so it might vary a little less.  Differences related to terroir and plant type issues might stand out more than processing being dialed into optimum for these.  But we'll see.

I haven't been drinking much green or white tea for years, but many cycles of trying many teas from a lot of different areas over a decade give me confidence that my judgment will be reasonably informed.  Related to brewing process I'll go with a Gongfu approach, and a pretty high proportion, as is normal for me.  Brewing water temperature might be a little high, possibly around 90, or maybe down into the mid to upper 80s as a thermos I'm using sheds some heat, which is probably not optimum for the green tea version.  But I'm a sheng pu'er drinker, so if it includes a little extra astringency edge, extra mineral base, or if a heavier vegetal tone stands out a little I'll be fine.  It would be sweeter and lighter brewed 10 degrees cooler, which I'll probably be able to comment on a little as I go.

I should mention that some people consider silver needle a certain style of white buds-only tea, and often silver tips is used as a more general term.  Silver needle is often used for the English derived name for a Fuding, Fujian tea version, based on plant type and growing conditions that result in a larger bud form.  I don't even get caught up in naming issues people far more often consider important or restricted, like pu'er (although I do respect the registered Yunnan-origin only convention by awkwardly calling other versions "pu'er-like), or Oriental Beauty, which isn't registered to describe only Taiwanese teas.  I don't have any conclusively grounded opinion on whether this is truly silver needle or instead should be called silver tips, but I'm pretty sure that silver needle is closer to the Oriental Beauty example, not a registered and restricted naming convention, so I think it's fine.

Review:

green tea:  I brewed this round a bit fast, not trying to compensate for the tea needing time to become soaked, instead going with a first light introductory round instead.  Range is pleasant so far, light and sweet.  This tea could have far less of an astringency issue related to being in a mostly whole leaf form.  Umami already stands out, even though the tea is brewed quite light.  I'll save adding a flavor list for next round.

silver needle:  a lot of mineral base stands out in this; interesting.  Often buds-only white teas can be subtle to the point of not tasting like much, with some vague floral sweetness coming across.  That's not how this is.  Sweetness is still pronounced, and there's plenty of floral range there, but at least right away a mineral base stands out most.  It reminds me of how Nepal white teas often strike an amazing complex balance, including all that I've mentioned, and maybe even a bit of citrus.  For people familiar with good Nepal white tea that's clearly very high praise.  This should be interesting.

green tea, second infusion:  I brewed this more like 20 seconds, if anything perhaps slightly over optimum, but it will avoid another comment about these needing another round to get started.  Umami, underlying mineral, and heavier flavor range really stand out in this.  I think it's already to the point where using nearly 90 C water is pulling flavor range to a heavier, less bright and sweet range.  I'll cool the next round to experiment on that, mixing in just a little room temperature water (not sciencey, or optimum, but it'll work).  Floral tone is a main input, along with umami, and from there heavier vegetable range stands out.  It's hard to place, non-distinct, maybe as close to cooked okra as anything else.  I'll keep working on a more detailed flavor list.

silver needle:  warmth, sweetness, and depth really bumped up in this tea.  It's not really that close to Nepal white, which is lighter in form, with flinty mineral, light floral, towards a light citrus edge; that was only similar to the early round profile, it seems.  A much warmer range of floral tone and citrus both really kick in, but it's more like a warmer orchid scent than a lighter version of that, and more like a tangerine than a sweet and light orange.  Rich feel rounds out the experience; for still developing this has a lot going on.  There's even a hint of drier edge, relating either to oxidation input or to a natural mineral flavor tone (feel and flavor ranges tend to naturally couple in standard ways).

green tea, third infusion:  cooling the water (mixing it) did shift results a little, but not too much.  Heavier mineral and vegetal flavors still stand out, along with sweetness, and rich floral range.  I brewed this for a bit under 10 seconds; infusion strength is fine for both even brewed fast.  I won't pin down floral or mineral range much, which are hard to describe, but I will attempt to say more about the vegetal range.  There's a grass aspect to it, but it's complex, and not mostly that.  Vegetable range could be fairly close to okra still.  That gets odd because it's not a heavy, cooked vegetable flavor, but who is familiar with eating raw okra?  It seems like what is happening relates to a lot of range combining.  Rich and lighter floral tones seem to mix, along with a lot of mineral base, grass, some vegetable, and some holy basil spice range.  It's intense, but it's pleasant for being such a clean effect, with decent balance.

I've mentioned many times that green tea isn't my absolute favorite range, which I suppose could seem odd given that I drink mostly young or slightly aged sheng pu'er, which is closest to that.  I don't hate the entire flavor profile range, I just don't like the straight-grass effect, or more one dimensional vegetable flavor inputs.  Sheng often tastes floral, and essentially never like grass or vegetables, although characteristic astringency and mineral base can overlap with some green tea range, and unusual pine-like aspect can enter in (which I just noticed in a Jing Mai version two days ago).  For this green tea being complex, generally positive, and balanced I like it.  I'd probably like a sheng version that's this high in quality and distinctive better, but that's how type preferences and acclimation works.

silver needle:  this is richer, sweeter, heavier on rich floral tones and warm citrus fruit, and thicker in feel.  I think this would naturally appeal to a broader range of people; there is no conflict with aspect preference range to get in the way, it's just good.  It's definitely not subtle or wispy.  This was even brewed for 10 seconds or less; pushing it would draw out even more intensity, although lighter flavor balance would give way to heavier range if you did that, to some extent.  I should push the next round a little to check on that, since I've just brewed these quite light.  It will be more of a test of the green tea; I don't think that you could easily ruin this tea with brewing variations.

green tea, fourth infusion:  I cooled the water even more by mixing one third room temperature version; this will be brewed quite cool, maybe even under a 70 C relative optimum (160 F or below).  Ordinarily that would impact intensity, but I've let these brew for more like 20 seconds, probably just under that.

It's lighter and sweeter, for sure, with feel range not diminishing at all, or the heavy mineral base flavors.  Interesting!  If someone absolutely wanted to keep the heavy grass and vegetal range in check this is the way, use fairly cool water, maybe even dropping slightly below 70 C.  I'd probably see using 75 to 80 C as an optimum, and might even go with 85, accepting some heavier flavors that I don't love as much as a trade-off for bumping intensity way up, even brewed fast.  Sweet floral tone does come across well in this round, with an even stronger mineral base, so it's not overly light, but for being a sheng pu'er drinker I'm accustomed to intensity, which sticks around even with fast and light infusions.

silver needle:  not changed, really; the last description still works.  Heavy floral tone might be bumping up as the sweet citrus drops off, but it's still similar.  I'll probably do one more round to check on changes, back to brewing the green tea hot, and leave off taking notes.  These teas are not half finished yet though; cutting off writing is about keeping this length moderate, and about later transitions not being as interesting to me as describing the basic character of the teas.

green tea, fifth infusion:  the heavier flavors punch is back, related to using quite hot water again.  I suppose it's nice that the flavor can be that dialed into different ranges like that, if one likes.  Other tea types tend to not work out like that; you can shift the range of experience, but not necessarily the basic flavor profile.  The grass and vegetable might seem a bit much to some but to me it's balanced well enough with heavy mineral base, umami, and equally pronounced floral range input.  I like that feel structure too; it has an edge to it, brewed hot and somewhat intense, but again I'm familiar with teas including intense feel along with intense flavors.  

In discussing what I like about sheng with a Yunnan producer friend he guessed that people might just adjust to liking a little more complexity and intensity, then a little more again, until they need a lot of both to get their fix.  Oolongs are plenty complex and interesting, with full feel, but once you follow that pattern it might not be enough, since they tend to give up both--related to sheng--in exchange for exhibiting refinement and flavor aspect range that's a more natural fit to ordinary, unconditioned preference.  Bitterness alone is a big part of that (which of course I've not mentioned in relation to this green tea; they tend to not be bitter).  People new to drinking beer would probably love a mild amber more and then later on IPA and pilsner can somehow seem more appealing. 

It's interesting the bag it came in has a common type of orchid on the front, and the "flavour of Assam" branding.  There is plenty of floral range in both these teas.  This seems to be transitioning more to green beans in later rounds, so there's other range too, but it works better for it all balancing.

silver needle:  not transitioning too much, but a little.  The gradual, subtle drift towards warmer floral tones might be leading into a light spice-like range now.  For this tea being so approachable, while still being complex and intense, you could try out pushing it with full boiling point brewing water and see what that changes.  

It might work as an optimum to start cooler, maybe in an 85 C range, and then keep bumping temperature as intensity fades just a little.  This is still plenty intense, and you can add more to that just by lengthening brewing time, but drawing out warmer tones and a touch more astringency could be good--in the form of feel depth at this lighter level--as the tea softens further and narrows in flavor range.  At five infusions in it's far from fading away, so I'm talking here about messing around to experience change and an optimum.  Or it's great like this, or surely brewed hotter; this is the opposite case of when I'm describing how one might get a decent but mediocre tea to give up a bit more intensity, more about how one might try out a finer level adjustment of brewing process just to highlight what is already present.

Conclusion:

I liked the silver needle more; that really stood out for complexity, intensity, and flavors being in a very positive range.  I liked the green tea more than I like an average good-quality green tea version, and if I was a green tea drinker this would all be framed in completely different context, much more positively.  It's a green tea version that a sheng pu'er drinker could appreciate, but they would still probably like sheng pu'er of equivalent good quality even more.  Drifting off the subject a little, I tend to like sheng versions that seemed to have been heated a bit too much, spoiling a lot of the long term aging potential, and shifting the aspect range, but they can be nice as very young / new versions.

It's interesting considering if these were better than I expected, or different in any way.  I thought that they would be quite good, so that matches.  This white tea intensity was a pleasant surprise; fine bud content white tea can be intense, as this was, but often that comes with negative or neutral aspect range trade-off, for example the mineral tone not integrating as well as this did, or giving up brighter floral and fruit range.  You usually don't get that kind of balance across a range in white teas; it's either mostly a very pleasant sweet and floral high end, or a deeper base joins much less of that.  That's why Nepal white teas really stand out, but they often express a brighter, lighter-tone range, light floral, and bright citrus, not the warm and deeper range.

Probably I'll come to love this green tea more as I try it a few more times, and automatically dial in brewing better, versus messing with it round to round.  To me green and black teas can tend to be more basic in range expressed, which can still work out as a positive experience, in a way that can work really well drank along with food.  I still drink sheng with breakfast almost every day, or black tea, oolong, or shu if I feel like it, but that's not really about setting up an optimum pairing.  I eat plain foods, breakfast cereal, toast, or fruit, and the sheng is often out of balance related to intensity, even brewed light.  I probably should buy more black tea than I tend to, but I often end up reaching for sheng anyway.  It'll be nice to have a couple more options to mix in, while I have these teas.

ITeaWorld Wild Lapsang Souchong and non-wild version

 

Back to it, maybe the last review of teas from this set, since I think there are a couple of others, but this covers most of it.  I've already reviewed their other black teas from Yunnan and Yingde, and a Tie Guan Yin and Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong.  Results were a little mixed but pretty good, in general, comparing quality level and aspect experience to the quality level implied by the pricing.  The one Yunnan black tea (Dian Hong) and Dan Cong were representative of the normal range, and pleasant, both slightly better than I would've expected for teas from a resale vendor.

But is this a case of that?  They present themselves as involved in the growing and processing steps, not only buying commodity versions.  It doesn't necessarily change a lot either way, but the background can help place how to take any specific claims, eg. that a tea is wild grown, or from a certain elevation.  Their online content looks detailed and diverse at first glance but then when you read closer it's a bit general.  That's hard to place.  It could be that translation issues make it hard for them to communicate details, and that as a new company (a new brand; they mention an earlier history as a different tea company) they had to make all the content that exists within the last year, so of course vendors with many years of history are going to have developed more detailed supporting content.

From there I could speculate, mentioning how I interpret vendor claims in general, who I tend to trust more or less, but it wouldn't add much.  In the end to some extent the tea speaks for itself.  But not entirely; if a vendor makes claims that seem a bit off--which comes up--then you can't really trust any of the rest of what they communicate, about teas being organic, wild-sourced, genuine examples of the type or source area described, etc.  

To the extent the teas match expectations quite well, that the style is what it should be, that's an indicator that they're being open and honest.  I personally often take very general vendor content as an implied negative, descriptions that don't say much, because that content could be copied from anywhere, and doesn't communicate in-depth knowledge of background, but I have ran across examples of vendors selling fantastic, very authentic teas who barely create any supporting content.  

Small Thai producers come to mind; it's hard for them to describe even basic aspects or origin details in English, but in many cases the teas are obviously as genuine and positive (for a typical style) as they come, and the more you talk to the vendors the more you know that you can trust them.  Two people come to mind who I would almost trust with my kids, even though I've never met them in person; the most positive and genuine people I ever talk to really help support my faith in this world, partly offsetting sensational news cycles and all the rest.  Of course that's a bit of hyperbole; I can only think of one other family of close friends we've left our kids to spend time with ever, including relatives, so we just don't trust our kids with anyone, barring that one exception.

About this next set I've probably made a mistake before even starting; flavored teas generally work better brewed Western style, because it gives them infusion time for the right proportion for the added flavor to emerge, in this case smoke.  I'm brewing them Gongfu style; I used two packets of each sample to set proportion where I normally do, at 7 grams per 100 ml gaiwan.  It'll still be fine but for the first two infusions I'm probably going to just keep mentioning the smoke proportion will normalize later.

I thought for sure this would be one unsmoked and higher quality wild source origin version, and one familiar smoked version, since that's the normal two forms, but both are smoked.  So be it; good smoked black tea is really special.  It's going to be a bit much getting through 4 or 5 rounds but I can always take a break and get a snack, and reset the whole process.  It'll be interesting to see if any of the typical fruit aspect common to wild Lapsang Souchong versions can show through past the smoke.

ITeaWorld website wild Lapsang Souchong description (this is $30 or so dollars per 100 grams, 30 cents per gram, what I expected).

Unique smoky pine aroma and longyan aroma, from wild trees.

Wild tea is more natural. Sexual tea tree varieties and well-developed root systems. Grow in a pristine ecological environment. Picked 1 flush a year.

There's a little more there for description but it mostly only mentions a floral aspect.  I just ate a bunch of longan this week, from a local market.  If you ever see a dried fruit version of that it's well worth trying out.  They did add origin location in that listing too:

From the Mountains of Guangxi, Guilin at an Altitude of 800m.High Mountains Produce Good Tea.

This is interesting:

Sweetness does stand out, but oxidation level seemed moderate.  Even the brewed color they showed in a series doesn't match my own results; theirs is much lighter.  I suppose they could've been brewing this tea very lightly, since they showed 10 rounds worth, and I'm drinking the fifth while I edit this post.  Pushing the tea a bit made sense to me, using 30 second or so infusion times at double the proportion they recommend.  For brewing they did recommend using quite hot water, between 95 and 100 C, full boiling point, and that seems best to me too.

the non-wild plant version:  (selling for a bit over $15 for 100 grams, maybe 18 cents a gram)

The raw materials of the tea come from the abandoned tea gardens in Guangxi, China. After the 1980s, these tea gardens were left unattended. They have an abandoned history of 30-40 years. An abandoned tea garden refers to a tea garden that used to be managed by humans. It was abandoned later and has been in wildness for a long time.

No pruning. Higher brew tolerance.No chemical fertilizers and pesticides are used. More natural flavor. Older tea trees. Sweeter taste. Organic tea is grown in the natural environment. No chemical fertilizers and pesticides are used. Safer and healthier.

From the Mountains of Guangxi, Shanglin at an Altitude of 1200m.

They mention a flowery character elsewhere but that's it for aspect description.  

The abandoned tea plantation theme is interesting; that does come up, or variations of that, growing areas left in a more natural state.  Why would tea plants be left abandoned, when the Chinese tea industry has faced fairly high demand over the past 20 years?  I don't know.  If it's not a main local production area an earlier production experiment could've been abandoned.  That theme is familiar from a number of other areas; I can think of similar examples from five other countries (Sri Lanka, Thailand, Laos, Georgia, and the Philippines).  It's less common in China, because fluctuations in the economy and tea demand take a different form there than elsewhere.  Here's their image of what that looks like:

Review:

wild Lapsang Souchong version:  smoke does stand out more than the rest, one part of brewing this in what could be considered the wrong way, although that's not clearly determined yet.  The smoke input seems positive, warm, aromatic, and clean.  Of course based on the other teas being ok I didn't expect this to contain fake smoke or anything like that, but smoke input can vary a lot, and this seems as it should be, a tasty pine version.  I'll add more about other flavors next round.

non-wild Lapsang Souchong:  more shows up beyond the smoke; that's the opposite of what I expected.  It really doesn't mean much because both are just getting started.  There's something really unusual in this version, maybe along the line of a sassafras root effect.  I would anticipate that will be even more positive as intensity and complexity evolves, but we'll see.  I'll give both a slightly longer round next time than I usually would, well over 20 seconds, to cut short round of round of comments about how the teas are still early into transitioning.

wild version, second round:  interesting!  It makes me think back to the last time I had any smoked tea; it's been awhile.  Ian of Yunomi shared some awhile back, if I remember right, surely not this version, but along that line.  That was 6 years ago; crazy.  I've tried a couple of falap or bamboo pu'er versions with smoke input since, and two different Indian smoked black teas last year.

That Japanese version was unusually interesting and positive related to novelty, as a whisky barrel aged version, and this version is interesting too.  Smoke level is quite significant but it balances ok, with a clean and sweet profile from the rest.  It's probably going to work out that if I do 5 or 6 rounds worth of tasting the smoke will extract faster, and I could tell more about the rest later on.  Often some more subtle fruit or floral notes can emerge earlier in the rounds, in any teas, so it may not be indicative of what is mixing in with smoke now.  It's hard to place, really.  A faint cocoa note might be present.

other version:  smoke is quite light in this; odd that faded so fast.  It does include interesting spice or tisane range.  One part of that isn't so different than that aromatic, complex, hard to isolate black tea range present in Lipton, the overall balance they blend to draw out.  I'm probably reminded of that because I drank Lipton yesterday at work, triggered to do so by seeing posts about standard tea-bag teas in Discord discussion.  I had been drinking Dilmah tea-bag tea at work (we changed office location and I didn't put any tea or device back in the new one yet), and as expected Dilmah (standard lower medium quality Ceylon) is better than Lipton.

Let's do a more complete flavor breakdown for both next round; I think even evolved a little further that tisane / spice note will be hard to place.  It's interesting how these are the opposite of what I expected, with smoke input heavier in the wild origin material, and the other showing novel and non-standard aspect range.  

The non-wild version is a good bit lighter in color, less red; it may be backed off in oxidation level (that's pretty much the one input that would cause that), and that's also causing unusual flavor output.  That's not necessarily positive or negative; the experienced results determine that value judgement.  In the best cases a careful producer adjusts standard inputs to optimize the potential of a given source material, or I suppose oxidation level could just be a little off instead.  It comes up a lot with oolongs, or adjustment of oxidation level related to Dian Hong, in some cases going way lower than typical to make "shai hong" (sun-dried versions) that aren't as sweet and complex initially but have potential to transition positively with limited aging input, over 2 to 4 years or so.

wild version, third infusion:  well-balanced; I think this is right at the peak of it all settling in together, so I'll ramble on about it.  Smoke is light, which to me is at a good balance point, maybe only slightly a lesser input than the rest, but that gives the rest room to be experienced.  So by "light" I mean that it doesn't blast through as is common with commodity grade Lapsang Souchong versions (which can be pleasant; you're kind of signed up for that in buying one).  The rest is quite pleasant, just perhaps a bit subtle to compete with the smoke input.  Sweetness level is fine, and there's a bit of faint cocoa or quite mild fruit range beyond that, maybe more towards roasted yam than fruit, but it's not distinct and pronounced enough to make for a clear list.  

There's a chance that this tea might've been better unsmoked, that it wasn't really intense enough to balance smoke input as well as other versions.  I think most higher end or wild origin Lapsang Souchong isn't smoked for a related reason, because it's regarded positively without that input, appreciated for what else it is.  Any strong charactered black tea could stand in to complement smoke input, and a bit of rough edge or heavy flavor range might improve results, where a more refined, balanced, and distinctive tea might be better left alone.  

In the other black tea review I mentioned that Dian Hong versions often don't express a lot of higher range / forward notes compared to including depth and complexity, the cocoa / dried fruit / roasted yam or sweet potato, and I think that's another good example of aspect range profile of black tea that shouldn't be smoked.

At any rate this is fine, awfully refined and evenly balanced for any given smoked Lapsang Souchong version, which is good.  Keeping the smoke input light made a lot of difference, even though it's even lighter in the other version.

other version:  fading in intensity a little already; strange.  For where both these teas are pushing them for a 30 second or more infusion time might make sense.  I think they'll both make another 3 or 4 positive infusions but that will probably relate to really stretching them after the next couple, so this next round will be it for these notes.

the wild version is inconsistently oxidized, which doesn't mean anything in particular

wild version, 4th infusion:  smoke fades slowly, and the rest of the tea is a bit subtle, but it still comes across as a complex experience, it's just low in intensity.  Considering other aspect range I tend to see as "quality markers" might help place it; what about mouthfeel and aftertaste?  There's limited astringency range in this tea, related to that characteristic edge, and the feel isn't relatively full either.  It has depth of body, but just enough to support the rest, still below average in intensity.  It doesn't vanish from your mouth after you drink it, but aftertaste experience is limited too.  That's normal enough for black tea, so to me it's not really a negative input, it just doesn't add much.

Refinement stands out as most positive for this tea.  The feel is light but silky, the flavor is subtle but it does include supporting cocoa range, and standard black-tea depth, the warm tones.  Then it's a little odd because you don't turn to a smoked black tea for refinement, but there it is.  You can always bump intensity just a little using longer infusion times and boiling hot water, and that would extract a little more for warm mineral depth and a slight added feel edge.  But you would have to like it or not like it for what it is, you couldn't force it to be a more intense version of tea.

other version:  smoke is gone, and that unusual root-spice edge is all the stronger.  How much one would like this tea comes down to preference for or against that input range.  I like it, but then I've repeated that I like the deeper and unusual tones in Yunnan black teas a couple of times in this, and this is part of what I'm talking about, how that can include spice range too.  Again if someone wanted a full-blast, heavy smoke experience, supported by astringency and earthy flavor rough edges, these teas just aren't that.  To me they're better than that, but preference is a funny thing, there is no one clear and objective "better."  Match to standard expectations, the most type-typical range, wouldn't be met by these, but that's par for the course with smoked teas, that there isn't one narrow standard range.

I brewed these for another round for over 40 seconds (which I don't time; it's just to give an idea), and intensity did pick back up.  There's not much new for transition to report though.  Smoke strengthened in the first example, and fruit picked up in the second, which I'd not really been mentioning.  It's a bit non-distinct but maybe along the line of cooked pear.

I'll skip going much further with any conclusions for these, since I've been concluding a lot.  They're good.  It makes me consider just how good, trying to place quality, but for teas like this style matters as much or more as an abstract quality level.  Some people would love them, and others could find them lacking.  Anyone most interested in an intense blast of smoke and heavy-range, intense black tea would be disappointed.

To place quality level, which I just basically said isn't necessary, it works to compare them to Wuyi Origin's versions, to Cindy's teas, which are the best Lapsang Souchong versions I've ever tried.  They're not that good, related to general quality level, but they're not that far off those, which is high praise.  Cindy's teas tend to be priced in an atypical 30 to 50 cent per gram range, which can generally relate to lower quality teas normally selling for 20-30 being overpriced, or versions others would sell for 50 to 75 cents, or even a dollar or over per gram, being moderately priced and good-value, which is the case for hers.  

I'd expect these are more in the 20 to 30 cents per gram range, as sold, and they're good value for that.  I've not read their listings yet, as I write this initial draft, so if that's way off I'll need to add one more sentence here.  I'll go back and add them prior to the tasting section now.  Later editing note:  just under 20 cents for the non-wild version, right at 30 for the other.  

I looked up Cindy's Lapsang Souchong (Wuyi Origin's), and their wild version lists for less than the others, at $33 per 100 grams, with an old-tree version listing at $57 per 100 grams.  Interpreted one way they're slightly different categories of tea; these ITeaWorld versions are a good value for these styles and quality level.

Yunnan Sourcing 2021 Yiwu "Year of the Tiger" shu pu'er

This reviews a pretty good Yunnan Sourcing shu pu'er version.  I almost never read vendor reviews before writing review notes, and didn't in this case, but while adding a second comparison review of a more modest local Chinatown version (the Honolulu Chinatown, this time, since I'm not in Bangkok right now) I looked up what it was:

Golden Needle "Year of the Tiger" Ripe Pu-erh Tea Cake ($12 per 100 gram cake, not bad)

This cake is pressed entirely from 2021 Spring harvested Yi Wu area tea that was wet piled in Menghai!  This is a tippy "Golden Needle" grade ripe.  It's very smooth and sweet, with some bittersweet character that reminds us of dark chocolate.  Bitterness is barely noticeable but acts as a counterpoint to the sweet velvety taste of this thick viscous tea.  This tea also carries some dried cherry and vanilla notes as well.

Pressed in late 2021 to commemorate the Year of the Tiger this lovely tea cake would be perfect for gifting during 2022 or stockpiling for aging.  

Clean, smooth, complex, and aromatic ripe pu-erh tea that performs well beyond it's price tag!

Pressed by the Cha Nong Hao Brand

Region:  Yi Wu Mountains of Xishuangbanna

So that would be $42 for a 350 gram cake's worth, kind of a lower range than one typically runs across these days, but not far off what "factory tea" sells for.  It's interesting this is sold as "golden needle" grade; that's not familiar.  Finer material shu is usually referenced as "gong ting;" it's not clear to me how this varies from that.  It turned up through a search on Steepster, instead of on their site.  It would have been nice if vendors listing interesting products there had prevented the decline of that site.

That product summary is essentially how these notes describe it, just missing noticing any vanilla, or bitterness, with that not pointing out that it could use a year or two to age to settle out the wu doi / fermentation effect funkiness.  I would agree that it's significantly better than a $43 standard size cake version would ordinarily be.  Then it's also interesting comparing how much overlap there is with that cheap Chinatown version, which more or less represents a best case for what a $14 standard sized cake.  I wouldn't drink that range too often; there is probably as much pesticide exposure risk in drinking that kind of tea as in anything else you might find.

Editing note:  that cake includes the description "Pressed by the Cha Nong Hao Brand."  I would assume that all Yunnan Sourcing in-house cakes are actually pressed by a secondary vendor, that it's not Scott fermenting and pressing the material himself, or other employees of Yunnan Sourcing doing it, but this may relate to this being positioned as a vendor product instead of as an in-house production, which again would surely involve purchasing material and pressing by external suppliers.  Next one might wonder if that implies that this is better or not as good as other Yunnan Sourcing products, but it's probably as well to not overthink that, to just try the teas and see what you think.

Review:

this is upside down, in relation to typical framing here

First infusion:  heavy on black bread range, like a dark rye.  A somewhat familiar musty or slightly sour range adjoins that, including dark mineral, like slate, but even warmer, and a sort of wet cardboard sourness.  I suspect that some of that would fade over the course of a year or two, that this would improve, but it's ok as it is.  The depth and complexity are nice, even though it's a fairly straightforward and approachable tea.  This is how shu often goes for me.

It's interesting comparing this with a Moychay version, a decent one I brought to Hawaii, which is much older, so cleaner but faded a little in intensity.  And also to a dirt cheap shu I bought here in Chinatown, which I hadn't really planned to review, but might.  That would make a good addition here, adding a comparison review of both of those, with the three laying out a lot of shu range [I just skipped the Moychay version part; it was too much]. 

To some extent that really cheap ($14 cake) Chinatown tea matches the sour and slightly musty aspect in this, but it's stronger in that, in a less positive form.  This leans a little towards cocoa and fruit too, and that one kind of doesn't, leaving off mostly at warm earth tones, and range that also copies the dark bread theme.

Second infusion:  cleaned up a little; that musty sourness backed way off.  It's hard to express just how light it was to begin with as well, pronounced but a minor input.  Flavor depth is nice in this, even though it comes across as simple.  Again it covers dark bread, towards seed spice input, warm mineral, toward cacao / cocoa, and leaning towards fruit.  The range all mixes together; that causes inputs to seem less clear and distinct.  That warm earthiness is a bit like a coffee flavor; this kind of tea might not be bad for helping coffee drinkers to bridge over.  

Mouthfeel is nice and full, and aftertaste lends the experience length, but both aren't as pronounced or as interesting in form as can occur in some other tea versions.  It's a bit creamy.  Probably with another year to transition out that touch of sourness this would be really positive, although limited in refinement.  It's a somewhat basic form of shu, as I take shu to generally be in general, but I don't mean that as saying it's only average, instead that it's straightforward and drinkable in a typical way.  It's hard for me to place it in relation to the top end of standard factory teas, since I don't go out of my way to drink a lot of shu.  But it's pretty good.

Third infusion:  the spice range is picking up; that really resembles a dark rye now, even more, both the dark yeasty bread input and the caraway seed edge.  There is fruit range, but it's hard to identify.  To me it's close to a dried cherry, but surely others would interpret it differently, given how it's a minor input that mixes with the rest.  That's true of the coffee or cacao range too; this has so much depth because of minor additional range joining in, but it's hard to identify as distinct.  Then in the end it still comes across as a really simple experience, because it all integrates as a set.

As an aside, it's odd that Scott's tasting notes and mine ended up this similar.  The cherry isn't that pronounced that one would have to peg it as that, it's just most like that to me, and apparently to him as well.  Cool it worked out that way.

It has been interesting just drinking a half dozen tea types that I've brought for the last six weeks, not something I completely thought through before coming here.  I'd planned to add some teas at the end of packing but ran into a long list of other details to cover, and space issues to consider, and dropped it out, mostly due to focusing on the rest.  One of those teas is an inexpensive aged sheng, a version I bought in Shenzhen something like 4 years ago, and only one a shu, that Moychay version.  I'm drinking mostly sheng, as I tend to do, maybe 5 versions of it. 

William of Farmerleaf mentioned that he felt he learned from mostly drinking one sheng version for a month back at the start of the pandemic in a video, and to me sticking to a half dozen, or just over, has felt a little like that.  In one sense it's limiting, but it's also cool to keep returning to the same teas, to see what comes of experiencing them over and over.  Some people always drink tea like that, from online comments about such things, but I routinely alternate drinking a few dozen versions.

Fourth infusion:  Even for the more novel flavor inputs fading into a narrower set in one sense this is improved; it seems cleaner, and a bit more refined.  Most traces of the early sourness are gone, and a less intense dark bread effect is still nice.  Warm mineral might play an even stronger role.  Level of cacao / cocoa input seems open to interpretation, as if one might see that as a dominant flavor, or else as non-existent, depending on how aspects are interpreted.

Fifth infusion:  this seems to just be fading a bit now, ok for stretching out a few more weaker infusions, since it still has some intensity to offer, but it's diminishing.  The fine leaves and bud form, and fermented character, seemed to cause it to brew fast, accounting for that high intensity early on, but causing it to fade a bit faster than larger and more whole leaves would.  I'm still drinking this round at a normal tea infusion strength, based on brewing it for 30 seconds instead of much faster, but it was quite powerful earlier on.  Not everyone would like drinking shu a bit stronger than typical teas are brewed, as I tried and reviewed this, but that's a normal preference for me. 

Let's see how that inexpensive Chinatown tea compares.

Generic Chinatown shu pu'er review

Second infusion (as well to start here; the first was light):  not so bad.  A bit of cardboard sort of flavor joins in, but it's not really more sour than the YS version had been, or varied from that form, or probably much stronger.  Earthiness is similar, the warm mineral and dark wood kind of range.  It gives up a little in terms of a cacao / cocoa edge, and limited dried fruit, but the overlap in character is as significant as the differences.  It's similar range shu, just not quite as good.

From there not having much of a flavor list to unpack is the main difference.  It includes similar dark wood, leaning towards coffee, with a warm mineral base, and a touch of funky sourness, and that's pretty much it.  For being made of chopped leaves this is brewing slower, and some stem material, instead of finer leaves and buds, so to make it more equivalent I should stretch out the time to 20 seconds or so, while the YS version brewed quite intense for high proportion 10 second infusion times.  I'll try that.

sticks and varying fermentation showing, not a great sign

Third infusion:  a little stronger it's easier to pick up a faint touch of geosmin, of actual dirt.  Or is that petrichor, a related but difference flavor similar to the smell that occurs after it rains?  Maybe both.  I must admit, I appreciate the YS version being mostly the same but with more edge of cacao and dried fruit than this tasting like dirt.  The feel of this is a bit thinner too; it lacks a lot of that thick creaminess that decent shu has, never mind how that comes across in the best of all versions.  

On the positive side this seems to include a touch of root spice that kind of works, which the YS version more or less didn't, unless it was lost in the rest of the complexity, beyond dark bread seeming to include a little seed spice.  To be clear I think this is pretty good shu for $14 a cake; I think running across much more significant flaws would probably be more typical, gambling on buying cheap tea versions like this.  And it's as well not to overthink the likelihood that this was grown using as many chemicals as any other plant material.  It's just a guess, but I think for drinking one cake of this the risk is moderate, but for including this range of tea in what one normally drinks, even only part of the time, could really be a negative health input.  Then one wonders about what chemicals are used to grow food, but it's as well to not overthink that either.  Probably a lot of them.

Fourth infusion:  the sour funkiness is essentially gone; as with the YS version that aspect dropped out.  Then it's on to whether the extra earthiness and reduced positive range works nearly as well, with the base character pretty much the same.  To drink either mindlessly, as a beverage to adjoin food for breakfast, the experience is similar, but this tea doesn't work as well to focus on positive aspects.

Conclusions:

The Yunnan Sourcing version was definitely better, but to me it was also interesting how much the two overlapped.  In a sense it's not a fair comparison, because in another year and a half both would've dropped out a lot of that early fermentation flavor, the sourness or cardboard box range.  I think the YS version has potential to be much better then, and this Chinatown tea can only develop so far.  All the same in 2 or 3 years it would be quite drinkable, a rare case of a $14 cake working out.

The "shu is shu" theme, that it's all essentially similar, is both supported and rejected by these two examples, by the comparison.  The basic character of both is essentially the same, the flavor set, even to a limited extent the level of complexity.  But then if someone values shu being better, as would be normal for someone on that preference page, they could see a world of difference between the two.

For value the YS version costs roughly 3 times as much, but then it is better.  Still, 12 cents a gram is value oriented range for tea of that general quality level.  It's crazy thinking that the other one costs 4 cents per gram; that's like CTC Assam price range, a $40 kg.  It could've easily been undrinkable; gambling on buying something you might throw out comes up in that price range.

That's not unfamiliar, the practice of seeing how spending very little works out.  When we visited Shenzhen, about 4 years ago now, I offset the risk and demand of needing to identify tea quality (and authenticity, depending on version range) by not spending much, which comes with the same risk of failure cases, even if you can try teas.  It's possible to make bad judgement if you try a lot of teas quickly, and there's always the chance that what you try won't be what you are really going to get.  

Cheap teas tend to include significant flaws, often a very thin feel character, and lack of depth or complexity is also a routine limitation.  Some of that applied to this Chinatown shu, but not in the same sense the worst of what I bought on that trip--all sheng--also did.  A grocery store sheng version there, which sold in the $10 range, if I remember right, was better than most of what I bought in a local tea market there, all of it costing more than that.

just under $10, but conversion rates must keep changing

People recommend "using trusted vendors" for a good reason; even a less impressive Yunnan Sourcing version is going to reduce risk of experiencing really bad tea.  Since preference is relative people with developed, higher quality expectations might see half the YS catalog as a good example of poor quality tea, and as bad value regardless of the pricing, but I think that would be a minority opinion.  I've tried a couple teas from them I didn't like but many more were pretty solid, positive to experience and good value.  To me--not necessarily a universal perspective--that sort of judgment about "misses" doesn't apply as directly to shu, which is all that much closer to the same thing.  There's no reason why the extra flavor complexity, depth, feel, and refinement of the YS version wouldn't make it much more pleasant to drink than the cheaper tea I've compared it to here, and fundamentally quite different, even though I see them being as similar as they are different, in one sense.  

I suppose anyone might judge teas types that they like, but don't prefer most, in this kind of way, seeing large differences in character and quality as kind of minor, and all relative.  Or it would be possible to "not get" the higher quality focus, or to see that as quite critical.  I remember trying versions of grades of Longjing for the first time in a Bangkok Chinatown shop, before I started this blog.  I could tell there was some difference between them, but couldn't place that difference in relation to preference, not even to tell why some minor variation should be more positive.  Now I'd probably get it, although it's hard to say if I would always like the higher quality versions more.  Probably.

I do appreciate the difference in these shu versions, and that the Moychay version I've brought is probably in between the two for quality level, but perhaps better than either at this time for being older, and properly settled.  For me differences in sheng quality and character map over to preference grading better; better versions I tend to like more, versus as much just noticing differences.  

This is all a subject that James of TeaDB keeps returning to, how he drinks factory shu as everyday drinkers, optimizing value and experience by drinking a lot of basic range but pleasant teas.  He probably wouldn't buy this cheaper version, and might set this YS tea aside for a year or two if he did try it.  Not all shu versions include this much sour / funky character a year after being produced, but it's also not really unusual.  Drinking 2 or 3 year old shu resolves that issue, even if in some cases teas don't really need that much rest.

a recent outing to Waimanalo beach (east Oahu; we live in Honolulu now, more or less)

view from the bus; it's a long, clean, and empty beach

the main theme was visiting, not the postcard setting, but of course we swam too

the other view from that yard, just amazing

ridgeline hiking earlier.  I should do a travel blog post about their mid-semester break.