Moychay Yiwu sheng pu'er comparison

 

Cloud Aroma Yiwu left, in all photos

I'm reviewing two Moychay Yiwu sheng pu'er samples, sent along with a set of samples for review, that I've been mentioning other teas from.  It was sent for that purpose (many thanks!), also in relation to helping out with translation review.

In these posts I won't review any teas that I don't like; there has to be a story to be told.  These two versions are in a grey area related to that.  They're good tea, but a bit unremarkable, not as distinctive as they could be.  General quality level was fine, probably better than it sounds from this description, since this doesn't focus on what I consider to be quality level markers for sheng pu'er (feel, mineral base, refinement, distinctive flavor aspects, etc.).  It's the last that could seem like a gap.  These are mostly floral in nature, but flavor aspects tend to combine.

One is clean and sweet, and the other contains a bit of extra bitterness and astringency, along the line of a dry edge, but not exactly that.  They're fine, but I don't experience them as something one would find so interesting that they'd really feel a need to place an order.  Maybe when a bit newer / younger other distinctive flavors stood out more?  Maybe they're transitioning into a character range that I don't prefer, related to an aging transition cycle?  I'm not sure.  Let's start with the Moychay page descriptions though; there could be a clue there.

Yiwu Cloud Aroma Sheng Puer (10 Euro / $11.70 USD)

Yiwu Cloud Aroma is a raw Pu-erh tea originating from the gentle, mist-covered mountains of Yiwu. The old-tree material from these forests is known for its softer, more elegant character compared to other Menghai regions...

...The liquor is clear yellow-gold with a delicate floral-herbal fragrance and a light sweetness carried by Yiwu’s characteristic soft mouthfeel.

Bitterness is restrained, allowing the sweetness to rise quickly and linger through multiple infusions. This tea is refined, balanced, and ideal for those who enjoy the gentle depth of Yiwu terroir.

$11.70 for 50 grams works out to 23 cents a gram, or equivalent to $82 per 357 gram cake.

That doesn't mention a year, when it was produced.  It was packed on December 2025, that sample, so it could be from 2025, or it's possible it's from before then, a 2024 version.  It could be an autumn harvest version; that would explain why flavors aren't quite as distinct as they could be.  Intensity was ok though, just nothing too exceptional.

YIWU SHENG CHA, from 2023  (20 Euro for 60 grams, $23, but only a 7 gram sample is available now)

Yiwu Raw Pu-erh Tea originates from Yiwu Mountain in Mengla County, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan Province. At an altitude of 1200–1500 meters, this region’s warm, humid climate and fertile soil provide the perfect environment for the Yunnan Da Ye Zhong tea variety. Yiwu Mountain is home to ancient tea gardens, with some trees aged over a century, contributing to the tea’s distinctive character.

Harvested annually between March 20 and May 30 [2023], the tea is made using traditional methods, including hand-picking, pan-firing, rolling, and sun-drying. Only one bud and three leaves are selected to ensure quality. The meticulous processing emphasizes preserving the tea’s original flavor and unique characteristics.

This tea brews into a bright golden infusion with a clean, refreshing taste and lingering sweetness. Aromatic notes of citrus peel and hints of aged wood combine with a silky texture, offering a layered and balanced flavor experience. The dry leaves feature tight, uniform shapes and a pleasant fragrance, reflecting the high standard of selection.

This version was 38 cents a gram, $135 for a standard 357 gram cake (for comparison; it's also not sold that way).

If these were pretty good Yiwu material versions, that matched standard type expectations, or at least were equivalent in some way, then the first pricing would be low, and this would about right.  The review notes cover how that seemed to go.

Review:

Yiwu Cloud Aroma:  pretty good.  Some bitterness and astringency come across this early, even though it's light, but the sweetness and floral nature is promising.  It probably includes a good bit of fruit, along with that floral range, but it will be easier to unpack in later versions, since this is just getting started.

The way the sweetness and mild bitterness complement each other is especially nice, already.

Yiwu Sheng Cha:  that's different.  A strong and warm mineral tone dominates this.  It's not that unusual for young sheng (this is from 2023, not that young / new), but Yiwu--which is really a broad area, so you can't really overgeneralize, as I'm doing--is often light, sweet, and floral, and not typically challenging.  This may be even more challenging next round, and then might ease up as further rounds progress; that's a fairly normal pattern for young sheng.

At this stage it's not nearly as promising and pleasant as the other.

Yiwu Cloud Aroma 2:  sweet and pleasant, with bitterness again balancing nicely with the sweetness.  I still can't get far with unpacking floral and some light fruit range.  Pronounced mineral gives it complexity and good flavor range balance, but makes it hard to isolated distinct flavor inputs.  Blending causes that too, but that may not be the cause in this case.  It seems not to be, it seems to just relate to how it comes across.

One could speculate about a flavors list, but these flavors are overlapping, making that difficult.  There is light floral range, warmer and sweeter floral range, and some degree of fruit, maybe along the line of pear.  It's not as fruity as some young sheng tends to be, but that is still a pleasant input, that works well along with the rest.

Yiwu Sheng Cha:  that mineral edge really increased, even though it had already dominated the first infusion.  It's clean enough, but it could be cleaner.  By that I mean that strong mineral that resembles limestone, or whatever stone, is different than mineral that one might interpret as tasting like kerosene.  This is in the middle.  

It's not bad, it's not a poorly made, low quality tea, but it's not great either, at least in relation to my own preference.  If that flavor was just a little cleaner and lighter this would be really nice, because the intensity if fine, and plenty of mineral input can work well.

Yiwu Cloud Aroma #3:  mineral and astringency edge seem to actually pick up in this, but not to reach the other's level.  Strong floral tones offset it, and it's a sweeter tea (more sweetness comes across; it's not sweet in the sense that sugar is).  Fullness and intensity are pleasant, and the aftertaste is.  It's nice.

Yiwu Sheng Cha:  that astringency edge and sort of dry mineral is easing up already, softening and warming.  This might be even better in another two rounds.  The other balances vaguely similar aspects in a nicer way, per my preference; that comparison doesn't help this tea.  

It's hard to say if this would be better in a couple of years, or have long term aging potential.  It's not exactly what I would associate with those themes.  The little aged Yiwu I've tried--maybe approaching a dozen versions, not just a few--had seemed to fade quite a bit, leaving a lot of warm-toned but subtle depth behind, while the bright floral and sweetness mostly dropped out.  It would require an unusual preference in sheng experience to love this as it is, but I suppose that some would.  

That bitterness and astringency common to a lot of sheng range, that people come to value later on, is dialed up a bit much in this.  I suppose it's possible that could relate to aging potential.

I'm rushing a bit because Saturday errands are starting to be pressing.  It would be better to drink water between these rounds, to clear my palate of this bitterness, astringency, and mineral flavor effects; I might do better describing flavors if I had.

Yiwu Cloud Aroma #4:  I'm trying a light round to see if that isolates flavors better.  It doesn't, for this tea.  It's interesting how so much depth comes across, while the higher end / more forward flavor is very light in this.  It's still smooth, sweet, floral, and complex, but not intense, not in terms of flavor.  The mineral depth still gives it balance, in a much lighter and more approachable form than the other version.

Yiwu Sheng Cha:  perhaps the best this has been.  Mineral is still a bit intense, but it balances better.  Bitterness falls into a better balance, less intense, better matched with the rest.  It's still vaguely floral, with lots more mineral input, perhaps including some fruit.  It's warmer in tone than the other, so all of that would relate to warmer versions than for the other.  I'll go a little stronger next round and then quit the notes; some other function comes up.

Yiwu Cloud Aroma #5:  it's warmer, and mineral plays more role in the profile, as occurred in the past rounds (that transition pattern).  I can't pick up any distinct flavors rushing through this.  Character is fine; it works.  Quality level seems good, but not unusual at all.  It could be more distinctive.

Yiwu Sheng Cha:  the best it has been, but only slightly softer than last round, otherwise not different.  

Conclusions:

Interesting, but not in a way that probably sounds much like high praise.  These were pretty good, but I'm evaluating them based on pretty high expectations, related to trying a lot of quite good sheng (dozens of good versions, and dozens of bad versions, and plenty in between).  Let's break those aspect related notes down to a summary.

Yiwu Cloud Aroma:  this was pretty good, pleasant, well balanced, with good sweetness, good feel, and decent intensity.  The flavors were just a bit vague, and intensity could've been dialed up a bit.  If this was an autumn harvest version, or a blend of different inputs, some of that lack of stronger and more distinctive positive range would make sense.  Or the material could just be only so good.

I ran across an interesting theme in trying a Thai sheng recently, from Wawee Tea, in that limited rain exposure that year decreased the annual harvest volume, and turned up the flavor intensity, concentrating flavor in the reduced leaf volume that was grown.  This could relate to the exact opposite, that tea plants experiencing a lot of rain input could've produced lots of leaf material, but at the cost of intensity and flavor distinctiveness being dialed down.  

Back to the value issue, for this relating to the cost of an $80 standard cake this tea is good, and a good value.  It's in the right general range for Yiwu, but floral notes could pop just a bit more.  It's very drinkable and pleasant.  I wouldn't age this, at all; I think it won't improve with even a year or two of further transition, and all the less so for another decade or two.

Yiwu Sheng Cha:  this was quite different.  An unusual mineral aspect, more bitterness, and greater intensity could've balanced better, and it wasn't as pleasant as the other tea for the first four or so infusions.  It must have been pretty intense 3 years ago, when new, since in a sense it kind of still is now.  Usually teas just evolve to lose brightness and freshness over that limited time-frame, although wetter storage conditions can shift flavors to be much heavier, and bitterness and astringency can evolve out quite a bit.  This wasn't all that heavy in tone, so storage conditions should have been moderate.

But it could've been better.  It's hard to see this as relating to a case where different preferences would relate to liking this version better than the other.  That's definitely possible; higher intensity level, heavier mineral, and more bitterness and astringency structure would suit some people.  Maybe it's even a higher quality tea than the other, in some limited sense.  But it lacked the intense, sweet floral range one might seek out in Yiwu.

I've tried some really good sheng versions from Moychay in the past.  One Nannuo version, that I actually bought in St. Petersburg, on a vacation there, was a turning point in my pu'er experience (reviewed here in 2018).  A couple of Jing Mai versions worked well for that origin area's typical character (sweet, approachable, often including a touch of pine, kind of floral beyond that).  Tea versions in general have been solid from them.

Yiwu has been an in-demand origin area for a long time.  The Tea Addict's Journal blog talks about this related to the later 2000s (or was that earlier 2010s?).  It's probably a well developed sub-set of sheng pu'er production, sourcing, and sales by now.

It's possible that has made sourcing from there problematic, as has occurred for those few really in-demand narrower origin areas (Bing Dao, Lao Ban Zhang, and so on).  Per my understanding it's not exactly a narrow or small area, but that long term balloon in demand over a number of years probably made that even worse.  That demand, or at least a part of it related to speculation, which could relate to "factory tea" versions more, has fallen off over the last year or so, but that may not help better version tea drinkers right away, or maybe that much ever.

Another thought occurs to me, related to describing how an even higher degree of inconsistency is normal from Chinatown shop sources.  These market type online vendors (like Moychay, Yunnan Sourcing, and maybe to a lesser extent King Tea Mall) carry pretty good products at good value, but there are limits to that.  I wouldn't expect too much from Wuyi Yancha or Dan Cong from Yunnan Sourcing (which of course aren't from Yunnan).  Their versions would be fine, probably better than you could buy in a grocery store in China (based on limited travel input; I've only been to China three times).  But it would probably be like this Yiwu sheng pu'er:  pretty good, but definitely not great.

So both of these teas had something different to offer, but it wasn't something that spoke as directly to my preferences as it might have.  It's not one of the more interesting stories I've ever told, but this is a lot of what tea exploration and experience is like.

Keoni on the elevated train

it was the pink line, way out there

Kalani on a ferris wheel

from around 80 feet up

this one keeps growing up too

Tea Mania 2021 Jing Mai and 2022 Yiwu sheng pu'er

 

I'm reviewing two more sheng pu'er from Tea Mania, one of my all-time favorite sources, and one of the best value places to buy sheng pu'er on the internet.  These were sent by the owner, Peter, for review (many thanks for that!).  

I'll get around to saying a bit about value, but these are "gushu," old plant material versions, which are ordinarily out of my normal budget.  If I remember right his pricing doesn't typically reach up to $1 a gram, so it's not as high as has long since been conventional for many sources.  But you pay more for this range of teas expressing a bit more depth, and more mineral undertone, and potentially causing a slightly different body feel experience.

This ties in well to trying a number of sheng pu'er from a Malaysian source, from Legend of Tea.  I've been having trouble placing those within the higher end of the quality scale, and comparison with these could help.  I still may not be familiar with the absolute best of the best quality sheng pu'er sold anywhere for any price, but teas from this source are always really good, pretty far up the practical part of that scale.

I typically cite vendor listings, to let them add a description, and to cite pricing, but I don't see the 2021 Jing Mai version listed.  I'll add another different year citation here, but of course even if the tea had been identical different aging would make it different:

Jing Mai Gushu, 2017 (not 2021), listing for $112 USD (90 CHF) for 250 grams

 

That pricing is equivalent to $160 for a 357 gram cake, or 45 cents per gram, on the fair side for gushu material, if it matches expectations for that type range (which is never just one thing)..

Together with our friend, Tea Master Panda, we went to Jing Mai to find the ideal Gushu tea leaves. Thoes leaves have been processed in Yang Mings tiny tea factory to traditional 250g Bingcha.

For this Bingcha we used Pu-erh tea leaves of up to several hundred years old tea trees (Gushu) from Da Ping Zhang in Jing Mai and stone pressed. The tea garden with the old tea trees is located at about 1600m. The the top of the mauntain forms a plateau instead of a peak. Therefore, all tea leaves are grown on a similar altitude.

Harvest: Spring 2017

Pressed: 2017

Taste: Mild and fruity with a sweet aftertaste

Terroir: Jing Mai, Puer prefecture, Yunnan province, China.

Yiwu Gushu 2022  ($106 USD for a 200 gram cake)

This pricing equates to $190 for a 357 cake, or 53 cents a gram.

 

These exceptional leaves have been expertly processed in Yang Ming’s boutique tea factory into traditional bingcha Pu-erh tea cakes.

Yiwu Gushu 2022 is crafted from tea leaves harvested from ancient tea trees, some over 300 years old (Gushu), located in the renowned Yiwu region. The tea bears a striking resemblance to our immensely popular Lucky Bee, sharing the distinctive Yiwu aroma. Additionally, it offers the well-known depth and clarity characteristic of Gushu leaves, along with a subtle hint of camphor...

Yang Ming is a local tea farmer from Yiwu, descended from a family with a long-standing tradition in Pu-erh production. His tea fields are the source of our beloved Lucky Bee teas...

Harvest: Spring 2022

Pressed: 2022

Aroma: Mild and sweet with a typically Gushu aftertaste

Terroir: Yiwu Shan, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan province of China

For lower cost versions that are still really pleasant that Lucky Bee line mentioned represents unusual value.  But this is about reviewing the gushu versions.

they press tea coins for use as samples, with that form involving some trade-offs

Review:

2021 Jing Mai gushu:  that's really fruity for Jing Mai.  It's so complex that even for an initial long soak to get the tea coin opened up I'd need to use a few descriptors to unpack what fruit is being expressed.  Maybe along the line of red raspberry, mostly, or possibly even dried red raspberry.  Bitterness isn't even started yet, but then this is brewed light, for only the outer part of the coin being wetted so far.

2022 Yiwu gushu:  sweetness and floral range stand out in this right away.  There's already a different kind of depth in this, not just the mineral undertone, which is going to stand out in both to some extent, but along the line of spice, or maybe aromatic tropical wood.  Even the next round isn't going to cover where these actually are, related to them still opening up, so I'll say a little about second round and do a flavor list breakdown on the third.

Jing Mai #2:  fruity, complex, well-balanced; this will be nice.

Yiwu:  interesting that this expresses more depth; I tend to think of Yiwu as being mostly floral, sweet, round and full, and approachable.

It's an option to try to tear these coins apart after a second brewing round, but they're too solid still for that to make sense to me.  Maybe I'll tease them apart a bit more after another longer soak.  Of course this is going to cause some of the tea to be on the 4th infusion when some is just starting out, but that doesn't ruin the experience, it just causes a different type of complexity, trying it at different infusion stages mixed together.  Not optimum, according to many, but it's fine, it works.  The dragonball form seems even worse, to me; getting that fully infused takes awhile.

Jing Mai #3:  pine does finally enter in, not so much the subdued pine forest effect I kept talking about in reviewing a recent Jing Mai version, but actual fresh needle flavor.  Then this is also still quite fruity.  The balance is really nice.  It's odd how limited bitterness expression and the distinctive astringency is; this is very approachable.  Flavors are bright and fresh; 4 years of aging hasn't led to a warmer tone, or offset bright notes.  Maybe these were stored somewhere in Yunnan?

Yiwu:  there is plenty of floral range to this, and an interesting spice tone.  Some of the sweetness could be interpreted as relating to citrus, but only a touch of it, maybe to dried tangerine peel.  These taste good.  Balance is great, freshness is nice, sweetness is high, and complexity is good.  I think a mineral base is playing more role in tying it all together than it's easy to notice; it doesn't stand out.  They're both really clean and intense.  

This is probably only the start of them tasting like they will across the middle rounds, not even there yet.  Maybe some of the initial brightness and freshness, the early round effect, is nice for being mixed in across rounds, from the hard middle getting wet later.  If they were challenging that would be the opposite, that the tea loosening up would be taking awhile, but they're not.  I'll keep going with long soaks to get the initial infusion process going, to get the middle soaked.

Jing Mai #4:  transitions might be harder to identify since new tea at the center of the coin keeps getting wetted for the first time each round.  At least this is bright, sweet, fresh, fruity, and complex, very pleasant.  Mouthfeel changes; it picks up some fullness.  Aftertaste intensity might be ramping up too.  That pine note isn't too piney; it mixes fresh needle effect with a bit of pine cone flavor, with fruit standing out more.

Yiwu:  it's hard to describe how rich and complex the floral range is.  It's nice.  I wouldn't necessarily keep aging this; it's in a great place right now.  It would be interesting seeing how floral tones become even warmer and richer over 2 or 3 more years, but then you'd be trading out some freshness and brightness, and once it switches towards fully fermented aspect range to me you would have probably lost what represents this tea's most pleasant potential.

There's very limited bitterness, and some fullness of feel, some structure, but it's the opposite of challenging.  A longer soak might finally get to the next place in the transition cycle for both.

Jing Mai #5:  the pine note switches over from also tasting like pine cone to expressing mostly spice.  That's stronger than the fruit now, kind of balancing, but more within that spice and vegetal range.  Vegetal makes it sound like a claim this tastes like green bean or grass; it's not that.  Pine cone or aged tropical hardwood are vegetal, just not in an ordinary sense.  

Yiwu:  savory edge picks up in this, tied to the list of flavors I keep describing.  This doesn't seem like the floral-intensive, less balanced Yiwu I've mostly tried in the past.  The warm towards tropical hardwood part people would probably interpret differently, as spice instead, or some form of dried fruit, maybe on to more exotic descriptions outside of food range, tasting like a particular type of clean canvas, or like a wicker chair.

Jing Mai #6:  I'm usually saying that I've got to go do something right about now, and today it's a doctor's appointment.  Eye is feeding the kittens for me or I'd be on break for that right now; I'm more or less mother to two month old kittens just now.  I finally tore these two coins in two, the first attempt at making them fully open the manual way.

That's so good!  I've been drinking this tea for 5 rounds, so it shouldn't come as a surprise, but the final push of intensity from it finally fully brewing all of the tea is really something.  Feel depth changed, and something along the line of an aromatic wood note entered in, like cedar or redwood, or maybe even sandalwood.  Sweetness is pronounced too, and there is some fruit balancing that, and a touch of pine.  The complexity is great.  I could relate to someone saying that Jing Mai teas aren't necessarily for them in a recent review citation, but this is something different, not just pine with a touch of floral tone.

Yiwu:  this includes a comparable warm spice-like or aromatic wood tone range, and richer, deeper floral range, perhaps with just a hint of citrus, so it's comparable, but completely different.  They harmonize with each other, filling similar roles in different ways, just a bit off-key from each other, but in a way that balances.

A savory experience is unique in this.  It's almost a touch of sun-dried tomato entering in, along with all the rest.  It's not at all what I expected, more of a sweet and complex floral range experience.  

Trading out transition speed and clarity for these coins taking awhile to get wet kind of worked out, since these will keep changing over a few more rounds, and continue on as interesting and well-balanced way past 10 rounds.  Eventually a more brewed-out bitterness will enter in, but it will help that these were so approachable through the first long stage.

I'm going to blasted by these teas; powering through 14 rounds is a lot.  It could help that the infusions weren't overly intense, as I'm prone to cause when using 9 grams of already loose material.

Jing Mai #7:  again, as for all of these rounds, that fruit note is amazing.  It's so complex that it must relate best to a mix of different fruits.  Dried raspberry may be a main theme, but there's more to it.  Gradually increasing light bitterness and a fuller, dryer feel are pleasant.

Yiwu:  this experience integrates so well that breaking it down to 3 or 4 main parts mis-represents how you actually experience it.  It's good.  It's going to be hard to place how much better these are than the Legend of Tea versions, but they are a little better, even beyond lots of difference just relating to preference or character differences.  Both could be equivalent amazing value.

Conclusions:

I've concluded so much already!  The teas were just great.  I had made it sound like they were going to brew 15 great rounds based on starting so slowly but at 10 or 12 the effects of pushing the outer material to brew faster started to show, and some characteristic late-round bitterness and green wood effect entered in, mixing with flavors I described in the first 6 or 8 rounds in the notes.  They still brewed a full cycle, over 10 rounds, but there was no free lunch related to the interior taking awhile to get soaked, so they didn't make it to 15.

Is there any one or more aspect or character ranges that sets them apart as gushu?  One part of the vendor description mentioned depth and clarity (as related), and another referenced aftertaste expression being different, or more intensive.  All of that was impressive.

I think clarity is worth considering further.  I might reference an overlapping aspect I refer to as refinement, when a tea isn't just complex, intense, pleasant, and so on, but expresses something else.  I see it as the opposite side of not expressing flaws, as going further in the other direction.

Is that worth shifting to paying 50 cents a gram for a tea instead of 30-some, beyond flavor aspects just being positive?  I suppose it depends on tea budget.  It should definitely be an easier judgment call to make at 50 cents a gram instead of $1.  But then character and quality level become quite complicated, and it doesn't work to say that lots of range of versions are equivalent, all based on one input.  These teas are better than some of what I've tried represented as gushu from elsewhere, but I can't compare them to the entire range of the best of what is on the market (of course).

I think you need to drill down to more local areas to even discuss what is most type-typical; comparison at the broad region level muddies the discussion.  Then distinct styles could enter in.

It's harder to say if these are clearly better teas than the last two I tried, because aging issues also factor in, and complicate things (and comparing Mang Jing and Jing Mai may not be apples to apples, back to the last point).  This Jing Mai version is really something; I suppose it is probably just better, and you can set aging issues aside.  That Bulang version from 2021, equivalent in age to these, was really in a favorable place.  It was far more fermented; these retained a lot of the earlier character, which in this case was also favorable, since they were fresh, sweet, complex, approachable, and very well balanced.  Since the per-gram pricing was around half of these for that maybe it's a partial victory for that tea, related to value.  

But these teas were so exceptional, for what they are, that to me it doesn't reduce to being that simple.  You really probably can't find experience like this for considerably less.  I'm not completely sold on the gushu theme as something I would need to regularly experience, that extra depth and clarity, but I also can't really discount it as irrelevant.  

Tea Mania also sells "arbor" teas; they carry the other intermediate range that people bring up.  It costs less.  The extra rough edges or slight limit in some intensity range isn't considerable, not a night and day difference, but it is different.  Their Lucky Bee Yiwu line I recommend that people can buy a cake of without tasting a sample; it's that pleasant and consistent, and that good a value, but of course it's not the same as these.

Would these two teas necessarily age better for being gushu (a claim that also comes up, just less so at the current time than a decade ago, back when this was all sorting out more)?  Probably not.  I see that as relating to certain style, to high levels of distinct types of intensity, in general terms to teas expressing more astringency and bitterness when young (new).  

I think that these would go through very favorable intermediate transition stages, when stored in a cooler and dryer place than Malaysia, as we are seeing 3 and 4 years after production now.  But at a guess I don't think it would make sense, to me, to keep these around to re-try them as 15 to 20 year old tea versions.  They're great now, and will continue to express great moderately aged character for a few more years, before they reach that in-between stage.  Stored in a cool and dry enough place they won't be in that in-between range at a decade old yet, when character can make less sense, they'll be preserved, but there may be a trade-off in slowing and stretching out that process.  But that part is idle speculation, not even a guess.

Tea Mania sells 2012 and 2014 Jing Mai gushu versions; someone could check on that aging transition guess, by buying them.  That 2012 version sells as a 357 gram cake for $187; it's not bad for good material tea of that age.  That could work as a tasting set theme.  I looked up what they offer for those and there's only one, here, including varying origins and ages of sheng pu'er (listing for $37 for 56 grams of seven different teas; not bad).

a recent make-up birthday party, really an excuse to eat ice cream cake

Farmerleaf Na Lang Laos sheng pu'er

This is the sheng pu'er version I talked about, I think, that I tried with William and cited in the last post about meeting him, a Spring 2024 Na Lang from Laos.

Since I've already introduced this tea I'm going to strip down these tasting notes to what it seemed like to me, removing a lot of the speculation or tangents.  I'll add a little back in with the conclusions, but this will work well kept shorter, without the usual rambling on.  This is William's site description (part of it):

Spring 2024, medium-big trees from forested gardens (listing for $140 per 357 gram cake)

Na Lang village, Nyot Ou District, Laos

A powerful Yiwu-style tea with great endurance 

This is typically the kind of tea you would find in Gua Feng Zhai for twice the price. The point of this tea is not the fragrance, but the good thickness in the soup and the deep Huigan. 

Considering the renown of Yiwu tea, and the high prices its tea fetch, it is not surprising that many tea traders cross the border to Laos and source tea from Nyot Ou district. As a result, most of the tea made in Nyot Ou is bought by tea producers from Yiwu.

Tea grows in the forests of Nyot Ou district along two valleys. The Southern valley is connected to Gua Feng Zhai village through a small road. The environment in which tea grows is similar in Eastern Yiwu and in the two tea producing valleys of Nyot Ou District. Ancient tea trees grow along more recently established gardens in the forests.

from the Farmerleaf site product page

That's a common, well-known theme, that lots of tea from lots of places goes back to China to become pu'er.  I skipped the "pu'er-like tea" limitation earlier, the admission that the type is a regionally limited designation, only applying to teas from Yunnan.  That's a bit absurd, isn't it, given that context, that any tea from Laos, Vietnam, or Myanmar (and less from Thailand) that crosses the border, and is mis-represented in terms of origin, sort of is and also isn't pu'er?  And a very considerable volume of tea undergoes this transition, far more than is ever sold as Laos tea.

It's the best of both worlds for Chinese producers and vendors; they can dismiss those origin area teas as separate and inferior, and then buy them and resell those same teas as the upgraded local version, simply by blending and then mis-labeling them.  Let's move on to how this tea is.

I never do address whether this is like Yiwu or not, a claim made in this description.  I've experienced relatively consistent character in trying a reasonable amount of Yiwu, but it's my impression that I've not experienced a lot more than I've tried, especially related to distinctive versions and higher quality levels.  So I'll just describe what I am experiencing.

I think it makes sense for vendors to never mention much about flavor range.  It would vary over time, and even more so in relation to varying interpretations.  In this review I mention it seeming to taste different when trying this same tea two different times, and I speculate about why that is, real factors that could've changed what I experienced, not just the interpretation.  

William's description doesn't even include a general flavor reference, like "floral," and again I see that as reasonable.  To some it would seem floral, and to others fruity, and different factors could change the compound inputs that these are based on.  It's fine as long as a description can pass on enough range description to draw interest, or inform in some other way.

Review:

First infusion:  a little light, but that's a good way to start, brewing the first round fast to get an initial sense, and letting the second be more typical of the rest.  Flavor is good; quite catchy.  There's a pine-like aspect that others could interpret related to other vegetal range, but only a little.  A fruity tone is something else, on towards juicyfruit gum, or back in the range of natural flavors not really tied to just one, but not so far off tangerine.  Feel is nice; it has some structure, already, but that doesn't seem to track towards being unapproachable.

I've already tried this tea, so this isn't the blind tasting approach I typically use.  I know where this is going, and this tea version is pretty exceptional.  I'll fill in more of an aspects list next round.  

It's completely whole leaf material, not too compressed, so it would be easy to drink it unbroken, but I used some from the parts that had already split off in this tasting, more broken material.  Maybe that's not ideal, but I suppose it's a normal real-life experience form.  I hadn't thought it through getting it ready; depending on how focused in I am I might use the broken material also in the wrapper or carefully separate off some relatively whole leaves.

Second infusion:  that catchy fruit related tone really pops in a stronger round.  Bitterness and astringency really ramp up too; those would be more moderate if someone was more careful about not breaking the leaves.  

The bit of pine, or however that vegetal edge is interpreted, integrates wonderfully with the sweetness, bitterness, fruit tone, and background floral range.  

Intensity is good; I supposed based on what I said in the post about talking with William I should comment on that.  It's not by way of harsh aspects being dominant either; in better quality cakes strong sweetness, bitterness, feel, and positive flavors really stand out.  This is really clean in overall effect; it's not as if young sheng tends to be murky, or to taste like a cinderblock, as comes up more with Liu Bao, but there can be an emergent sort of impression of clarity and cleanness, or lack of that.  

This doesn't seem completely identical to when I first tried it with William.  It was exceptional then, and it is now, but minor inputs can vary, shifting the outcome.  I'm using water from a hot water dispenser and filtration system, so it's not at full boiling point; that changes things.  It's a different version of water.  This leaf is little more broken, as I've mentioned.  We drank this tea in the middle of trying a half dozen versions; that can affect impression and memory.  It seemed to include more bright floral range in that tasting, leaning towards bright citrus, and it probably did, based on those differences. 

Third infusion:  the tone seems to be warming.  It had warmth and depth before, but it's evolving to include a lot of that.  The leaf color is mixed, including some darker range, making me wonder if somehow oxidation level didn't vary a little in this initially.  How?  I'll add more about one thing William said in the conclusions, that might have entered in.

I personally love that effect, when sweetness, flavor complexity, and slight warmth gives a young sheng a much more approachable character.  I suppose people could be mixed on how they relate to that input and effect.  

I'm not doing justice to what I take to be a fruit tone.  It's not so far off dried mango, which surely isn't all one thing, since there are lots of kinds of mangos.  That one flavor input is positive, but it's how it integrates with the rest that works well.  It's intense and refined enough, which can be hard to place within the entire sheng range, or in relation to higher quality versions, or typical Yiwu styles. 

I didn't mention that the intensity carries over to aftertaste experience.  That almost goes without saying, but not completely.

Fourth infusion:  now that warm, sweet aspect tastes more like dried apricot to me, so much so that I'm questioning my earlier interpretations.  It's a lot like apricot, a pretty direct match.  It's quite delicious.  There is plenty of astringency and bitterness to balance it, but it's a quite approachable tea, at the same time.  Someone being more careful than I was to not break the leaves would moderate those parts just a little.

Intensity is so good, and flavors so fresh and bright, that it seems this will go on forever.  It won't; based on trying an earlier cycle this will make a lot of infusions, using the high proportion that's my default, but eventually flavors will thin and bitterness will play a different role.  It's great while it lasts though, which is for awhile.  The bitterness and sweetness stays in your mouth after you drink it, along with that fruit flavor, adding some extra exposure to appreciate.

Fifth infusion:  it's not transitioning all that much, which is as well, because I'm running out of patience for making these notes anyway.  Feel might become richer; that's an interesting shift, for this stage.  It has had pretty good feel structure for this whole cycle, but it gains just a little richness, towards a pleasant sappy feel.  To me that one interesting and positive fruit note integrating with the rest well is the main story, with other range playing a supporting role.  

Conclusions:

It's good, very intense, refined, pleasant, interesting, well-balanced, and so on.  I can't place it in relation to Yiwu range, but this probably is the best Laos sheng I've ever tried, and it might be about the 15th version I've tried.  The warm fruit range was interesting.  Floral tones are often dominant, across a lot of sheng range.  Versions can transition quite a bit, aging over even 9 months or so, but this was quite warm and fruity, and a year of aging input wouldn't cause that.

Back to that oxidation input issue:  William had said that if a producer backs off the kill-green completeness even a little (if I'm remembering this part right) that the stems can not be as fully fixed (compounds inactivated).  Then these can turn redder, more oxidized, as the tea dries, shifting the final character.  Maybe that happened in this?  It would explain the darker colors in some of the material, and also those heavier tones, the fruit range versus the floral, and warmth.

That's all just speculation.  The tea is really nice, the main thing.

Is it worth $140 a cake?  Sure, if someone is open to paying that for it.  It's novel, so there isn't any one established market supply and demand based pricing level.  It could be $500 or 1000, if people are open to paying that.  

There's a general expectation that quality level and range of related experiences out there are the competing factors; there are ways to buy a lot of Yiwu versions, and some other Laos teas, just none that I've tried like this.  If somewhat equivalent versions really do tend to cost $280 instead then maybe this is a great value.  I'm not buying any teas that cost over $100 per cake, so I'm just not part of the whole community, in one sense.  That's about budget limitation, not idealism.  If my tea budget was much different I'd buy this, for sure, but I certainly don't experience that as a regret.  My life balance is something to be thankful for, not to focus on regrets over.

Beyond those concerns the tea character is really interesting and positive.  I've really appreciated the opportunity to try this, and to have some to drink, since William shared a fair amount, not just a sample.  Many thanks to him!

Ai Lao and Yiwu Yunnan black teas (Dian Hong)

Ai Lao left, Yiwu right, in all photos

I'm reviewing two Yunnan black teas from Tea Tracks, sent by the owner Jan to share and for review (many thanks).  Since Dian Hong means Yunnan black (/ red) tea in a sense these are definitely Dian Hong, but people also use that as a more limited style designation.  To me they're both Dian Hong.

Then Shai Hong, which means sun-dried black / red tea, is more or less a subset of that, or overlapping category, often used to identify versions that are backed off in oxidation level just a little, and more suitable for aging transition, deepening in flavor over a few years of storage time.  This post isn't mostly about all that; just mentioning it.

These are really nice.  I'll skip saying more and cite the vendor descriptions, what they are:

Yi Wu Black 易武晒红  (19.62 Euro for 100 grams, $21.92)

This Dianhong sun dried black tea is from Yi Wu, mainly know for it's Puerh teas. In Chinese this variation of black tea is called Shai Hong 晒红 (sun-dried red) as it is dried in the sun during processing. The tea has a great texture and a clean, a bit malty aroma. It can be brewed many times. For us it's the perfect breakfast tea.

Taste:  Full round body, a bit malty taste 

Origin:  Yi Wu, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan, China

Harvest:  Spring 2023

Ai Lao Wild Black 哀牢红  (19.62 Euro for 100 grams, $21.92)

This black tea comes from wild trees that grow in a protected forest near Ai Lao Shan. This tea has a clean taste with notes of berries. It's amazing to see what a fragrance and flavour this tea can produce without any flavouring.

It was a bit tricky to take a good picture of the cake. It's really that dark.

This tea has been pressed into 100g cakes.

Trees:  Wild tea trees growing in a protected forest

Origin:  Ai Lao Shan, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan, China

Harvest:  Spring 2023

the color difference is really something

separated out for brewing

Review:

Ai Lao:  tartness stands out first.  I dislike most tartness in black teas, but in some versions it can balance with the rest in pleasant ways.  The rest of this does integrate well with it, and is pleasant.  There are plenty of other layers to experience.  Sweetness is good, and general tone is quite rich.  

There's a typical malty sort of black tea base flavor, even leaning just a little towards that one orthodox Assam malt flavor aspect, and decent fruit tones beyond that.   Mineral is nice, a pleasant supporting aspect.  There are warm mineral tones, and also a touch that's a little sharper that's almost towards salt, giving it a savory edge.  It works well with the sweetness, fruit, and other complexity.

It's odd that this dry leaf is so much darker in appearance and then the brewed tea is lighter.  There may be meaning in that, but I don't know what it is if so.  When I first saw the dry versions I thought maybe the Yiwu was oxidized less, but for it brewing to a darker, redder liquid I'm not so sure.

Yiwu:  that is interesting.  A pronounced mineral range also stands out in this, also leaning a little towards salt.  Maybe there's something going on with my palate?  It's possible.  I had oatmeal for breakfast, along with two fried eggs, and some longkong and banana, with the banana mixed with chocolate protein powder, milk, and ice to make a smoothie.  A bit much, but a normal range; it shouldn't have thrown things off.

The aspect I described as malt in the other is a little drier in effect here, or so it comes across (nothing like Assam, but a short step towards that).  Feel structure is still fine, and sweetness provides a nice balance.  Both of these were brewed a little long; I went with lower proportion to stretch a large sample to two rounds, and they're probably about 6 grams worth (just a guess), so it's strange that is a low proportion, for me.  I tend to max out what the gaiwan will hold more often.  Brewing them longer related to not commenting that they'd really open up and brew next round, but it's hard to dial that in to an optimum level, the slowish start for all compressed teas.

These are compressed as tea cakes; that's interesting.  Or rather they're chunks that indicate that shape.  I suppose I should say something about aging potential along the way, or input, if these aren't relatively new.  Aging black tea doesn't change all that much, but if a version is oxidized less to begin with, as Yunnan Shai Hong style tends to be, then initially subdued flavors can pick up more over 2 or 3 more years, and then it seems to level off some.  Or maybe that's all wrong; it's just my current understanding.  I retried a pressed Shai Hong brick I bought 7 or so years ago not long ago; it might've changed some, but it seems pretty similar to me to how it was back then. 

It would be easier to blind guess sheng inputs based on a version being 1 to 3 years old, since that pattern is more familiar, but starting points vary a lot for those, as can occur some in black tea, so it would still be guesswork.

Ai Lao #2:  brewed faster and lighter; it's interesting how much difference that makes.  There is still plenty of intensity to appreciate, it's just on the light side.  Tartness fades back to a more even and integrated part of the rest; it's not at all objectionable at this level of input.  It's hard to describe the dried fruit input that I didn't put words to last round; maybe along the line of dried tamarind, or really it could be complex, a few different flavor aspects mixing.  Rich feel is nice, for it being a bit light.

It's hard to describe why this captures why I love simple black teas so much, even though this isn't any more interesting or complex than a lot of other range.  There's just something simple, balanced, and pleasant about it.  

That simplicity is actually misleading; there are a few layers of aspect range going into making this experience have depth, so it's actually not simple in aspect range.  It comes across as integrated, and less intense than sheng pu'er experience, and also less refined than higher end oolong, so I guess to me that leads to an effect related to simplicity, even though the complexity and balance is making it pleasant.

Yiwu:  a spice note picks up in this.  Fruit is still more dominant, but it's interesting the way the two ranges play off each other.  Then warmer mineral tones and that malt-like depth balance nicely, just not exactly malt, that one aspect.  Somehow I expected the other version to be more intense and complex, and for this one to have good depth but to be subdued, and in a sense that's reversed.  The fruit seems to shift towards a berry-like range, maybe in between dried blueberry and dried dark cherry, a nice range.  There is a touch of tartness in this, if you look for it, but it's a minor supporting aspect, not the main flavor as in round one for the Ai Lao version, which dropped back to a contributing aspect in the second infusion.

I suppose I like this one more, at this point, but these are both pretty good.  They're good enough that it makes me start thinking about optimums, about how they relate to a quite ideal range, or how they could be even better.  To me Dian Hong isn't really about that, the aspects matching a certain style form, and reaching towards an experienced aspects optimum.  It's great because pleasantness and depth carry the experience, regardless of what aspects are included or not so pronounced.  It makes more sense to go on about most preferred or more ideal narrow sheng pu'er types, or oolong variations, what the best Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong is like, related to a range of styles of those, and so on.

Related to that perspective I'll continue on with describing aspects, and leave off with comparison to some type-typical or ideal form, or aspects set.  I should look up the age of these during this tasting, and try to guess more about that input.  Maybe after next round.

Ai Lao #3:  not so different.  It's a little subtle but complexity and depth is still really nice.  I brewed these for about 20 seconds, using what to me is a moderate proportion, again probably about 6 grams (which I don't weigh out), and it would work to push them harder, brewing them for over 30 seconds.

Balance of flavors is nice.  It's complex but hard to break down as a list.  I already have, and I don't suppose it has transitioned, but it's even harder to sort out those aspects now (fruit tone, warm mineral, a mild malt-like aspect).  I could relate to someone interpreting this as floral range; somewhat mixed and vague dried fruit and warm floral tones could be similar.  Feel is rich and aftertaste is fine for this tea type; they add in an experience of additional complexity.  I wouldn't judge this to include tartness in this round, brewed this way; that did fade.

Yiwu:  again there's a catchy interplay between a dried berry or fruit range and a spice note that's hard to identify, with other warmer depth really making it all balance nicely.  That warm tone, maybe covering both malt and spice, is more pronounced in this than the other version (any equivalent range; most of the actual flavors sets don't overlap directly).  The other version is pleasant, but that bump in depth, complexity, and intensity sets this apart.  Some of that you could compensate for by brewing the first a bit stronger, but it can only change character so much.

I will try these brewed for about a minute, which will probably just be normal intensity range, for them covering so much ground already in this infusion cycle.

Ai Lao #4:  a very pleasant minty aspect joins in; that's nice!  Not like drinking Red Jade, if I remember that Taiwanese black tea theme correctly, but just a hint of wintergreen, that works well with the rest.  The other intensity might be fading a bit.  That's for more forward flavor aspects; the depth is the same, the rich feel, warm mineral tones, and underlying base complexity.  This can probably be stretched for one more intense round and then it really will be on the way out.  Using longer infusions can do that, and black teas can brew out a little faster than I'm accustomed to with sheng.

Yiwu:  this is fading slightly too.  Probably as much from the power of suggestion I'm noticing a trace of mint in this too, when I probably wouldn't have if I hadn't just experienced that in the first.  To me it tastes like tea berry, which is in between berry and mild mint.  

I suppose that's a flavor that not so many people would be familiar with, since it's not something people actually consume.  I remember mentioning that flavor to my mother once, and she asked if those are even safe to eat.  I think they are, but the texture is so strange that someone might enjoy tasting them but you wouldn't keep eating them.  It's been a life's mission to pick, process, and dry teaberry leaves, since I've heard that they can be oxidized, and I may get to that soon, since I'll visit my family back in Pennsylvania in a week, for a few weeks.  I'll probably stop reviewing teas for a month.

These did brew a few more pleasant rounds, but there wasn't much more to say about them, no interesting later transitions.

Conclusions:

I did look through the product descriptions, and add them here.  Both are from Spring 2023; they've had a year and a half to settle, and change character some, but probably not much.  They both might be ever so slightly better within another year and a half, but I bet they're pretty much where they're going to be now, and it's not certain that they'll improve with a little more age.

The vendor descriptions, Jan's, say that the Yiwu is standard Dian Hong /  Shai Hong, which I've already mentioned, and that the Ai Lao includes a berry-like flavor aspect.  It was interesting how one version of fruit came out more in the Ai Lao in early rounds, which I described as seeming more like tamarind, then a different range stood out more for the Yiwu later on, which I did describe as berry.  These flavor descriptions are interpretations; if I keep trying the same teas a few times I would adjust what I notice, and how I describe it.

I guess that I liked the Yiwu better, but these are both pretty good.  I didn't explicitly say it yet here but Dian Hong is my favorite black tea type, so to me they were especially pleasant.  Others who love a bit of integrated tartness as a supporting aspect could like the Ai Lao more, but that didn't really last past the first two rounds.  For these being moderate in price someone could buy both, and see for themselves how they map to their preference.  

Related to that value the 20 cent a gram range (22) is quite fair for these; they are exceptional.  Someone could try another dozen Dian Hong / Shai Hong versions that all cost 15 cents / gram instead and find one that's comparable, but the lower quality half would fall well short of matching these, or even the average, most likely.  They're still basic character teas, in one sense, but this flavor complexity, character depth, balance, and lack of flaws can be hard to fully appreciate for what it is.

In an odd way that's what really works well with Dian Hong; if you take away some of the interesting flavor range, or general complexity, intensity, rich feel, etc. these would still be good.  Inexpensive, more lower-medium quality Dian Hong is still quite pleasant.  These are above average though.

Re-reading this during editing I've left out commenting on a couple of points.  Why was that Ai Lao so dark in leaf appearance, and why did it transition so much, changing from intense, including more fruit range, then onto being more subtle?  Wild origin tea versions can often be made from variations of conventional Assamica plants.  The purple leaf versions were this, a naturally occurring variation that ends up containing different compounds and tasting quite different.  Some wild material inputs aren't even Camellia Sinensis, or it can be hard to be sure, and accounts can vary about that.  I don't worry too much about it; the aspects are the thing.  

I own a Thai sheng ("pu'er-like tea") cake that's quite odd, not even close, and that's a little different, on a couple of levels.  You wonder what's in that, if drinking a lot would be a problem, and it's more sour than almost any tea I've tried, along the lines of that one fermented Japanese tea version (Goishi cha).  This black tea is just normal tea, but it's possible that plant genetics have drifted some over time.  

Check out how dark this purple leaf sheng pu'er version appeared (on the right, reviewed here):

I doubt this was purple leaf tea (an Assamica variation); that tastes different, in a distinctive way, often including some sourness, and a distinct grape-like fruit flavor.  The point was that maybe it's a slight variation from conventional Assamica plant genetics.

In talking to Jan he mentioned that one of these Dian Hong he likes to brew Western style.  To me it goes without saying that these would be fine brewed that way, probably not really inferior, just different.  It is as well to say it though.  I tend to brew better Dian Hong Gongfu style out of habit, and then I would drink it made that other way sometimes if I owned a good bit of it.  It really doesn't take me much extra time to brew 8 to 10 Gongfu infusions (these cycled through faster since I used slightly less than I often do, really maxing out proportion), but there is something nice about brewing two rounds in a basket infuser and being done with it, downing a couple of mugs worth.  

Of course the aspect variations, the transition, I described over four rounds would all combine, which can be better that way in some cases.  To me it makes sense to keep infusion temperature pretty hot for Gongfu brewing of all types, at or near boiling, and then people could experiment with how they prefer black teas prepared, which may vary by type range, related to brewing temperature.

2022 Yiwu gushu sheng pu'er and 2023 Gedeng arbor sheng

I'm reviewing two more sheng pu'er from Tea Mania, a Yiwu and a Gedeng version.  Yiwu needs no introduction, and Gedeng isn't familiar, so I'll refer to the site descriptions for background (for both):

Yiwu Gushu 2022 ($100 for 200 grams)

For this bingcha tea leaves of up to 300 year old tea trees (gushu) from Yiwu were used and made into a bingcha. A certain similarity to the very-popular Lucky Bee can’t be denied. In addition to the typical Yiwu aroma, there is a well known depth and clarity from the gushu leaves and a hint of camphor.

Who are Tea Masters Panda and Yang Ming?

Tea Masters Panda and Yang Ming are good friends and experts when it comes to Pu-erh. Yang Ming is a local tea farmer of Yiwu and descendants from a family with a long tradition in Pu-erh making. Incidentally, our popular Lucky Bee teas are from Yang Ming’s tea fields. 

I guess 50 cents a gram sounds reasonable for this type and quality of tea.  It's beyond what I would spend on tea, but it seemed pretty good to me (I always add the descriptions after making notes).  The only description here is a little like Lucky Bee, that character is standard for Yiwu, and it includes a hint of camphor.  I didn't notice the camphor, but it did seem like normal Yiwu range to me.

Gedeng Arbor Pu-erh (note the listed version is 2020, and I've reviewed 2023) $83 for 357 gram cake 

Tea Master Panda has graciously shared with us a prized gem from his personal collection: the Gedeng Arbor Pu-erh tea. Known for its profound and rich aroma, this tea, meticulously preserved, stands as a unique treasure for tea aficionados.

Arbor tea

The Gedeng Arbor Pu-erh tea is crafted from leaves harvested from Arbor tea trees, some of which are up to 100 years old, in the Gedeng region. These leaves are pressed into bingcha using traditional granite stones. While there is some resemblance to other teas of the six old tea mountains, the Gedeng Arbor Pu-erh is more herbal and full-bodied. In addition to this typical Gedeng aroma, there is a depth and clarity, along with a hint of camphor.

This makes comparison with a listed item tricky, because this is a 2020 version instead of 2023, the sample that I tried.  I specifically mention in these notes that this tea is in a good place now, and I wouldn't hold onto it for another year or two if I owned it, I'd just drink it.  I'm sure that it's fine as a 4 year old version, maybe better in a limited sense, and the starting point may have been somewhat similar, that year's version.  Those are all still just guesses though.

Maybe the one unusual flavor note I keep mentioning, or set of them, is a "typical Gedeng aroma."  Again I'm not so sure about the camphor.  It seems like the kind of thing that people end up looking for, and finding often enough, and then I don't.  Once in a long while something will taste like camphor to me but that's rare.  In talking to another friend recently about this particular aspect he guessed that maybe people tend to place what seems like pine flavor as camphor, related to expecting it, while others use a different interpretation related to not expecting it.  Who knows.

If this was identical to the 2023 version then 23 cents a gram (what that works out to) would be a pretty good price for that tea.  There is a running "older is better" understanding when it comes to sheng, that a few years of age are better than none or one, and 20 years is better than 10, but to me the first comparison doesn't always work.  Some teas that are approachable and pleasant right away only lose positive character, even after as short a time as two years (over that first year there is change, but typically not a complete shift).  

The 2022 Yiwu was considerably more age-transitioned (changed by fermentation, really) than the 2023 Gedeng; two more years could change a lot.  I'm not implying any particular conclusion here, just talking around how the inputs and outputs work out.  

Preference also factors in; there would be people who tend to always love 3 or 4 year old sheng versus new, 1, or 2 year old versions, and also the opposite, in relation to more approachable character sheng.

small discs again; Yiwu is on the left in all photos

Review: 

Yiwu, #1:  these are really on their second infusion; I let the discs soak for one minute first, then tore them into pieces, then this is a second round, brewed for another minute.  It's not optimum, since it will brew tea that had wetted first too strong, and not start in on the core of what is still compressed, but it's one way to jump-start the process.  

Doing a lot of messing around with partially soaking them and using a pu'er knife to separate them apart is another way, or just brewing the outer part in early rounds and the inner tea only after a half dozen infusions.

Character is warmer than I expected; this is two year old tea, but it has shifted a good bit in that time (I expect; surely this didn't start out slightly oxidized).  Rate of change depends on storage conditions; I guess this wasn't stored in a very cool and dry place, which is probably more optimum.  Better than here too, in Bangkok, where teas and people living here end up being heated and steamed, living daily life at 90 F / 30 C and 70% RH.  Living again and storing teas back in Honolulu would be good, dropping that temperature a little.

It's floral, I guess.  It has decent complexity; there's really a few things going on.  Floral range is part of that, maybe even complex floral range, then most of warmer tones might relate to a mineral layer.  There's often a catchy sweet note in Yiwu, which is generally floral, that I might be able to place more clearly than that, and this has that distinctive flavor aspect, or set.  It's a sort of brightness, that stands out in a complex and refined character.  

There's nothing challenging about this tea, as expected; there is a little bitterness, but not much, and astringency is moderate.

Gedeng:  there's a pronounced fruit note in this.  It reminds me of experiences with Nannuo versions before, how that has stood out in some of them.  Maybe not identical to this but pretty similar.  It has decent complexity too, and just a hint more edge to the feel, but it's also quite approachable.  Again there's very limited bitterness, but some, which is nice for balancing the rest.  For an oolong drinker maybe that's a medium level; I mean for sheng of this age that input is limited.  It's too early to call, on the first infusion that's strong enough to make notes on, but at this stage I really like this version better, for how that one note makes it more unique, standing out in a background of other floral and mineral range.

These will only brew a more conventional round next time; this was while they were still opening up, saturating all of the leaf material, or at least most of it.

Yiwu, #2:  evolving a little, gaining complexity, but not so different.  The depth in this is nice.  Flavor range is fine too, and feel, and aftertaste is positive, but there's another emergent range of it having depth that is something else.  I suppose a mineral base is a part of that, one main thing contributing to it.  It's nice the way that bright and sweet notes, and good complexity, integrate well with warmer and deeper mineral tones.  It seems pretty good.

Gedeng:  this has evolved too, again in the same direction it had been expressing last round.  That one note is really nice, a bright fruit tone.  I could try to describe it in relation to fruit flavors but it's not going to completely work.  It's also mixing with floral range, and a mineral base, and it's not striking me as closely related to one fruit flavor.  Still let's go there.

As far as I know there is no such thing as dried mangosteen, but if there was this might taste like that.  You eat that fruit by chewing the fruit part off from an attached seed; there is no way to pull it apart.  There's a brightness, sweetness, and complexity to this fruit tone, like that.  It's not so far off some forms of dried mango, just not exactly that either.  

Mango isn't just one thing, because there are lots of versions of it, as with apples, and they vary just as much, or maybe more.  I absolutely love my favorite versions of mango but I tend to see the most common ones here more, which aren't as nice.  Then there is the holy grail of versions, something absolutely fantastic that you run across somewhere, and almost never get to see again.  I'm not saying that this tastes like the best possible mango, just going on a tangent there.

Yiwu #3:  I'm brewing both of these a bit stronger than I typically would, because both are approachable and can handle it, and I want to clear through the issue of some not being saturated yet.

Being brewed just a bit stronger than I typically would warmth and mineral range comes out a bit more.  Brewed more lightly the sweeter floral range would stand out more.  I'll try a fast round next time to check on that.  Of course I'm not still brewing these for a minute; I mean that using a 20-some second infusion time makes them stronger than I would usually prepare most sheng.

Again complex floral range stands out most, and warm mineral depth, with sweetness seeming to tie to honey flavor, that warmth.  It's pleasant; it all integrates quite well.  If this is some $1 a gram version, as it probably is, it's in the right character range to demand a high price, I just wouldn't buy teas priced like that [editing note:  it's not, the price is lower than that].  On a relatively open tea budget it could make sense; this is complex, refined, free of any flaws, and sort of on the unique side, except for being one of the most familiar broad origin ranges (there must be many local area distinctions with Yiwu, that I'm not familiar with).

Gedeng:  it evolves a bit.  That one note I've described as similar to a warm dried tropical fruit is changing, more into spice range now.  I've tried to explain what I've meant by "root spice" recently, and it's not unrelated to that.  Like sassafras root, related to root beer; let's leave it at that.  

When you drink a lot of tisanes over a long period of time lots of others come up.  Not if you are using Yogi tea producer sources and such, I mean if you can search a little broader and deeper.  There are bark spices that are out there that are sweet, complex, unique, and distinctive, way beyond cinnamon.  I went through over a decade of exploring tisanes, before I ever got into tea, over a decade ago now, so most of the names of the more interesting types I've long since forgotten.  Sage was my overall favorite; I guess that could work as a recommendation.

It's interesting comparing these two in terms of in reference to my own preference.  I really like that one distinctive note in this Gedeng tea, and it's quite pleasant how it's evolving, and how it integrates with a promising, complex, and refined base of other flavors.  In some abstract sense maybe the Yiwu is better tea, it really has depth and refinement going for it, but this adds an extra touch of interesting character.  Then I suppose others might dislike that flavor instead, and would find it off-putting.  It's funny how preference works out.

Yiwu #4:  I'm blasted from all this tea already; brewing it strong to get it to fully infuse really caught up to me.  I ate a couple of cookies to settle my stomach and slow the drug-like effect input but I'll need to take a break after this.  I suppose all that is good for someone into "cha qi" drug-like effect.  It's not really my thing.

Sweetness level seemed to drop in relation to comparing this to the taste of cookies (oatmeal with cream); that's natural enough.  After drinking some water as a reset it's more back to normal.  The effect is different for brewing these faster and lighter, not much over 10 seconds that last round.  The bright and sweet tone doesn't come out as much as I'd expect, and it's all a bit muted.  At least 15 seconds would be better, maybe even 20 again.

Gedeng:  intensity seems higher for this one, either related to this transition phase, or just how that one dominant note seems to carry the rest.  Again it's a main input that is really a bit complex, and is shifting in form across the rounds.  A catchy floral tone stands out now too, on the same level for comparative intensity.  A hint of vegetal input may be creeping in, like a light green wood tone.  It's odd that all that is changing while the Yiwu just went a bit quieter.  

These are one year apart in production date, Spring 2022 for the other, 2023 for this.  The leaf color is much darker for the Yiwu.  That's how things would go, that a version being one year old enables some transition, and two twice as much, but stored dryer that Yiwu wouldn't have changed nearly as much.  

For some sheng versions they're so intense and approachable right away that a few months rest might be helpful but they're really good new.  I bet both of these were just fine within a month of being produced.  Then a relative optimum for the first year or two of transition could be harder to place, but more challenging versions than these would be better after 2 or 3, while these may not be improving.  I like where the Gedeng version is at right now, and the Yiwu is fine, interesting for including so much depth and complexity, but I don't think hanging around for another year or two would be favorable for either.  They're good now.  

Of course it's partly a guess but I don't think there was ever a challenging range for these that needed to settle out, harsh astringency or over the top bitterness (which some people like; the stronger the better).  I just reviewed a Lincang version that was a good example of that; it was fine for people who love getting blasted by bitterness, but for me another year or two of rest will probably improve it, or maybe 3 or 4 in that case.

Yiwu, #5:  these I brewed for much longer, more like a minute, not because that makes sense, but because I was answering a message online.  It will be interesting to see what a stronger infusion turns up in them.  For positive flavor and body / feel experience it's not optimum, but sometimes flaws can be more identifiable if a tea is brewed stronger.  Or it's just a different perspective on the same tea.

Mineral is so strong in this, and a range in between wood and spice stands out.  It's actually not bad, brewed too strong like this.  It has great depth, and the balance still works.  It seems to imply that it will shift towards a vegetal range in later rounds, but that's ok too.  Nothing else like a distinct flaw turns up.  Of course warmth picks up brewing it like this, feel gets heavier, and sweetness is more moderate.  All that is a normal shift related to higher infusion strength.

Gedeng:  a green wood tone is a little too strong in this; it doesn't work quite as well.  I suppose an overbrewed round is more about seeing how it will go anyway.  That one vegetal range is a little harsh, but nothing else seems like a flaw.

Yiwu, #6:  back to sweet, lighter, more balanced, full in feel, and refined this round.  There is a vegetal note creeping in, maybe to both of these.  Someone brewing these lighter could be experiencing the same general transition level (between rounds transition) at 7 or 8 infusions along, or more; trying to get the discs / coins to open up and brewing a round extra strong really speeded things up.  Carefully separated tea from a tea cake brews better; it is what it is.  

This is fine at this round though; character is nice, balance of aspects is good.  The broad floral range input is even less distinct, now combined with warm mineral and some vegetal range picking up.  Sweetness comes across as more limited.  It still seems refined though.

Gedeng:  of course it's much better, brewed appropriately.  It's harder to place how the fruit that had transitioned to spice range is coming across now, which always had been mixed with floral range, and underlying mineral.  It all integrates.  Feel is nice; it's picking up a liqueur-like quality, that matches with some of the aromatic flavor range, or seems to.  

It can be hard separating preference from quality level determination in this.  I really like this style and set of aspects, and it seems like pretty good tea, but the two kinds of impressions mix.

I think I'll leave off taking notes here.  For pushing these teas a bit hard the transitions from here would represent more of what would typically occur in the 8th or 9th rounds, or maybe 10th or 11th if someone brews tea lightly, which isn't going to be as positive as earlier rounds for these teas.  I wouldn't say that I've botched the brewing for these, but limitations enter in related to brewing tea discs, as with dragonballs.  

That could be positive instead of negative for using a grandpa-style approach; the tea would really hang in there for lots of rounds brewed while left in a tea bottle or jar.  To me it would kind of be a shame to brew these teas this way, for being as good as they are, but if someone had a good bit of them and liked that approach then it would be fine.

Conclusions:

It's all already kind of there in the review notes part, but I can add some summary.  I liked the Gedeng version more.  It was interesting and distinctive, and the novel flavor aspect--a set of flavors, that transitioned--really worked for me.

The Yiwu was good too.  In some ways as far as quality markers go (aspects I see as identifying how good a tea is), overall balance, complexity, and depth it may have been a little better.  The Gedeng version was pretty good too though; it didn't have flaws, or thin spots in character.  I probably liked it more for being a year younger, for not transitioning as much.

Other people would already love Yiwu character, and would get hooked on minor character aspects that probably do actually tie to the gushu / plant age theme.  I'd probably just buy the Lucky Bee version instead, the newest one they sell, which seems to be 2022.  It's $53 for a standard 357 gram cake, 15 cents a gram instead of 50.  Or as I've mentioned before Tea Mania sells a sampler set; that's one way to see how you think it all works out for their types, quality level, match to preference, and value.  Then there's always the complication of meeting a cut-off level for free shipping, but most people don't have a problem with sorting out what else to add to a cart, it's the opposite that's more problematic, narrowing that down.

I've been trying different pu'er lately this year, back into broader range exploration.  One of the nice things about Tea Mania was always that value stood out, that the teas were always really good for the selling price.  I tend to avoid 50 cent to $1 a gram products but this really applies to everything I've been trying from them.  It's all pretty good tea, especially related to how that compares to the price.  I've been trying some teas selling for more that weren't as good.  In these reviews I tend to not dwell so much on value, only implying that it's a concern when it comes up.  Personal value really relates to match to preference, in the end, more than an objective quality level, so it can be hard to say that a tea isn't worth it.  

You can sometimes identify a market price, sort of, but a version has to be a really standard form or type to enable that.  It might've come up as implied in the vendor description that this one version was standard, pleasant, good quality gushu Yiwu, as if it could be compared to a norm.  I don't think they meant it that way, though; I think it was more a limited comment about flavor profile.  

It doesn't work well to taste a tea and peg an objective quality level, degree of match to standard type, typical market price, and comparison of that version to other vendors' alternatives.  Maybe some people can do some of that.  I comment on some of those things, not all of them, but I generally keep it a bit limited and vague because you can only go so far with it.