Forest origin Thai black tea; tea tasting while fasting

 

This tea is from Aphiwat, again, who I've been buying Thai sheng (pu'er-style tea) from lately.  He sent it with that tea to try (many thanks!).  I won't get into the natural growth / old plant theme here, but there are pictures of plants that are probably related in this earlier background post.

Some odd background for tasting context:  I'm part-way through a 5 day fast.  I've never tried to write review notes while fasting before.  Even drinking black tea may not work; all I've had is salt (potassium and sodium), a multivitamin, and magnesium and calcium supplement tablets today [at time of first draft, of course, not final editing, since I finished this later on].  I've not eaten food for awhile, for days, and have only drank limited tea and a tisane, only once for the last.

I don't know if my palate will be off or if low energy level and focus will be an issue.  Of course notes here will guess about that, and then I do try this tea again in a later summary at the end, along with a related version, and that different context did change things a little.  I wrote about what fasting is all about in a recent post, and how that went, and about combining fasting, running (really!), and meditation.

Review:

first infusion:  that's really unusual, heavy and deep in flavor.  Of course I'm wondering if my sense of taste isn't unusual too, if that's not contributing.  At a guess it's not, but there's no way to test that [at that time; trying it later would be an option, and I did].  

It's hard to place in relation to other black teas I've tried.  I suppose it seems closest to Yunnan style, Dian Hong, but it might borrow a little from better orthodox Assam style range too [later I switch that around; it's more like orthodox Assam, but it seems reasonable to leave early mistakes in interpretation in this].  Deep mineral tones ground it all, and rich earthy character is another base.  Fruit is included, along the dried cherry range.  Usually there's a higher end, lighter tone joining all that, and sweetness seeming to link to some range, but this seems to be medium in sweetness level, and the depth, richness, and heavier flavors stand out.  

That's the part that reminds me of Assam, I think, that those don't tend to be sweet either, and not necessarily light in aspect range.  One part of this is even similar to the malt in Assam, a soft and rich version of it.  Complexity spans a broader range than many better Assam versions might, even for it missing a higher tone range; there is a lot going on.  Part of the depth reminds me a little of the roasted sweet potato range in Dian Hong too.  This is really something.  

Dian Hong often don't exhibit this sort of intensity, I think in part because producers are using summer material to make them, in between the more favorable spring and autumn harvest leaves, which are used to make sheng pu'er.  Even subtle Dian Hong can still be great though, because the range present can be all positive, sweetness can be favorable, and mineral and deep flavor tones can make up for generally lower intensity.  Feel is often rich.  Of course there would be other kinds of versions, that are off the scale intense; I probably keep trying more subtle versions for not being willing to spend a lot on it.

In tasting the last of this round it seems most like cocoa to me (or cacao, the ingredient used to make that).  I bet this is the kind of tea that seems to express a completely different flavor range brewed light versus heavy, still an overlapping set, but quite different.  I'll do a light round to check on that.

second infusion:  brewed fast (maybe just under 10 seconds) the intensity is still ok but it is quite different, narrower in range.  A little longer would be more optimum.  That is such an unusual flavor set, more of the dried cherry fruit range, roasted sweet potato range, or maybe closer to butternut squash, warmer tones, and mineral base, with some malt.  

There's a chance that this is higher in sweetness level than I'm commenting and that my body is desperately seeking carbohydrates, and realizes that there is none of that in this, so other compounds that I usually identify as sweet may be getting set aside as irrelevant (in my perception).  Feel is good in this, nice and full, and even brewed quite light aftertaste carries over.

It's good tea, of course, but it would take some unpacking to say how good.  In terms of an objective quality level it's pretty far up the scale, as distinctiveness, refinement, complexity, and intensity goes, and what I see as quality markers like fullness of feel and aftertaste.  But what about match to my subjective preferences?  I said in a recent Assam review that I love Dian Hong more, even though the black tea I was reviewing was clearly about as good as a version was going to be, just in that other range, which isn't completely unrelated, as Assamica based teas from different areas.  

Most versions one would find wouldn't be nearly this good (of Dian Hong, or of any tea type, really), as quality level alone goes, so this would probably surpass most Dian Hong just for being better tea.  But I might like a version that's not as good just as much, if the aspect range was exactly what I like most.  More cacao and sweetness, drop malt out, add more roasted yam and sweet potato base, even if another version was slightly thinner and less complex, I mean.  This is quite good though; it seems like splitting hairs.  Compared to the two ITeaWorld black teas I reviewed a month or so ago this is almost certainly just better in quality; preferred style range doesn't matter as much when a tea version is clearly significantly higher in quality level.

third infusion:  of course it's even better brewed to a more optimum infusion strength, at just over 15 seconds at a high proportion (maybe 7 or 8 grams per 100 ml gaiwan).  Cacao is stronger, and the malt note decreases; that's nice.  I think people accustomed to drinking broken leaf or CTC Assam tin versions might be thinking of a dry, almost harsh malt tone that seems to adjoin astringency in those, but it's not that.  It's not exactly malted-milk ball or Ovaltine range either, but much closer to that.  In between Ovaltine and cedar wood tone, I guess.

I think my palate is a little affected, related to being so far into not eating, several days.  Or maybe it's the diet of mostly salt water?  I'm not sure that I can perceive sweetness in a normal way just now.  The basic flavor tones I think I am reading in a similar way.  It seems like my body is judging flavor input mostly related to caloric value at this point, and feels a little let down.  A teaspoon of sugar would taste amazing compared to this, or a handful of nuts, milk, anything contributing sustenance.  

My body needs to let that drop, because there's two more days left in this five day fast.  My mind was mostly at peace with it from day one, which usually isn't how that goes, but my body is still feeling it.  Once I get ketogenic energy use normalized a little more, burning my own body fat, it might all feel more natural.  3 1/2 days into not eating, or consuming any calories, is a strange place to be.

fourth infusion:  to me this just keeps improving; that is nice.  I could push it a little harder since the intense mineral and earthier range base is fading, but it has good depth and intensity as it is (again brewed for just over 15 seconds).  Splitting the flavors into a list, as I did, is a little tricky, because it all integrates really well.  

Talking about transition changes now would be about the proportion of the earlier set changing.  The light dryness that seems to connect with malt flavor tone keeps fading, and rich cacao and dried fruit tone picks up.  Calling that feel dryness is surely misleading; only someone familiar with that feel input from tasting dozens of similar teas would make that particular connection.  It mostly comes across as rich in feel.

I wonder why this includes a malt tone, as Assams do even more, but Dian Hong tend to not, at all?  Would that be from plant type input, soil differences (terroir), or growing area temperature?  It could be any one of those, or a combined output of all three.  From smelling the dry leaves you only get rich sweetness, including the cacao range, and some fruit.  There is a chance that my interpretation of the flavor profile would shift if I perceived sweetness in a more normal way, if I wasn't fasting.  That's not intuitively how that would work but we seem to key in on sets of related aspects when we taste tea.  A minor flaw can really shift how we interpret other aspects, or a gap related to what we expect also can.  

Varying interpretation of aspects is possible at this stage; it may not be just a different proportion of the earlier set, so that may be wrong.  Tisane-like aspects pick up, mild wood tone, or sassafras root, along that line.  Dried fruit always was subtle enough that dried cherry was partly a place-holder for what is hard to clearly identify, and supporting roasted sweet potato range was a little clearer, and cacao more so.  

Aphiwat may send a different type of black tea to try and I could compare this when I'm eating again, related to me ordering extra sheng to send to a friend (for trade for tea; I'm not that nice).  I wish my budget allowed for me to be, to buy and give away tea, but I've not posted about a standard $150 or more tea order for a year and a half for a reason.  It's expensive to live in Hawaii part time.

fifth infusion:  perhaps fading a little at this point, but a catchy dried fruit tone picks up.  It's still not pronounced enough to be easy to identify, but I think it's more like dried longan or dried Chinese date, jujube, than dried dark cherry, the initial flavor.  Malt has really dropped out and a spice-like range now covers that warm tone, or maybe it's just a very aromatic version of roasted sweet potato, towards root spice.  Probably pushing this tea would provide a few more quite positive rounds, using full boiling point water and 30+ second infusions.  I'll test that.

One earlier concern I had was drinking black tea on an empty stomach, a very empty stomach.  It hasn't been a problem.  I think more broken leaf, lower quality black tea would be more of an issue, or maybe just really intense whole-leaf Assam.  The astringent feel in your mouth seems to match up with what is going to happen to your stomach, which can easily be offset by eating foods with complex carbs and fat in them.

sixth infusion:  of course intensity rebounds brewed a little longer.  That fruit input now reminds me of teaberry, a little towards a berry, mint, and tisane set, in a very catchy range.  It's possible that someone might like this sixth infusion more than all the prior ones, which is not how infusion transitions tend to go.  Maybe I do.  I don't hate malt as an input but swapping that out for berry is nice, and warm underlying mineral input bumped back up from adding a bit of infusion time (maybe 40 seconds).  

I suppose this is what Gongfu brewing is all about, revealing more that a tea can offer than having it brew out in two mixed together Western rounds.  Even if it's ever so slightly catchier that's enough tasting notes, and enough writing for me.

Speed round review; comparing two batches from Aphiwat (later)

He did send a second version to try from a different batch, along with ordering more sheng.  They have numbers but it seems like those are batch numbers, and I know of no other differences.  Part of reviewing these is to see if my sense of taste is different than it was back during that fast.  I don't remember that I've ever directly compared two small batch versions from the same production season and producer before.  Trying final production versions from one flush from a producer is something else, similar, but those could've been blends of other small batches.

The first infusion I brewed for awhile, nearly 30 seconds, to skip the part about not being able to taste them.

"21" version, the one I already reviewed, first infusion:  it's pretty much how I remember it from not so many days ago, rich, with a touch of dryness and astringency edge, but far from astringent.  Flavors are positive, with warm and rich malt standing out, mineral base, good sweetness (maybe that is different), and warm flavors towards fruit tones, maybe even trailing over to sun-dried tomato range (so umami, sort of, but nothing at all like in Japanese green tea).  I think it balances better without my palate being a little roughed up from not eating, but I'm picking up similar flavor tones.

"04" version:  similar but different.  It might be a little less full, with less sweetness and fruit.  The malt tone is similar, but feel could be a little softer.  There's plenty of a savory edge to this too, maybe even more so, or it could just be that it stands out more for the fruit tones being miler.  

It looks to contain less bud content, as if it's a different kind of material, presumably from a different harvest time period.  From a more northern source it might make sense to say it could be from later in the growing season, not as early a spring production, but spring is a strange concept here in Thailand, without any winter to define it on the one side.  

We have a hot season, a rainy season, and cool season, and it's really hot and humid the whole time.  Plants don't experience one start and end of a growing season, at least not in our garden in Bangkok.  Fruit develops and ripens per whatever timetable that fruit plant is on, I think with a lot peaking in August or so.  That is when the rainy season goes from a little rainy to a monsoon range, which it's in now, months after the main April and May hot season peak.  Further off topic, I've been the gardener at home lately, for being the only person there, and I "brewed" fallen leaves to make a variation of tisane for the plants again.  It's like a stand-in for compost mulch, I guess.

21 version, 2nd round:  I should probably be trying one of these in comparison with that really good orthodox Assam Maddhurjya sent me a month or two ago; it seems pretty close in style.

If you look for it that warm honey sweetness tone from the sheng is present in this tea too; it's very catchy.  Tasting while fasting did throw off what I would normally interpret as sweetness.  Sweetness doesn't relate to a carbohydrate input in this sense, of course, it's about other compounds coming across in a comparable way (amino acids, maybe?).  The strength of this tea is how well it all balances; it makes it harder to do a flavor-list style review breakdown, but there's a lot going on that integrates well.  

The general list is what I've already covered (malt, mineral base, fruit, touch of honey, maybe a little spice or aromatic wood tone beyond all that).

04 version:  less complex, less sweet and fruity, with more of a neutral wood-tone range.  It's still quite good, but the other being just slightly better--more intense and complex--makes it seem more limited.  It still has a soft, rich feel but with less structure to it.  It seems odd saying either tea is astringent given how far on the opposite extreme this is from broken leaf black tea.  

Sweetness still integrates well with the rest in this, and again I notice less of a gap related to how my carbohydrate starved sense of taste mapped out the other version just days ago.  Both of these would be fantastic as daily drinkers, for tea consumed with food, both good enough to appreciate alone, just focusing on the tea. 

Conclusions:

Just fantastic!  Eventually I will retry these and Maddhurjya's orthodox Assam enough to get a feel for how similar or different they really are, which I'll probably not mention here, since all this went long anyway.  

I just organized a really nice tasting outing at a local Chinatown shop, Sen Xing Fa, with most credit to that being amazing due to them, for managing and providing it all.  If I do get around to holding another event where I'm sharing more teas myself I should let others try one of these versions.

A favorite Thai sheng ("pu'er") from Aphiwat

Perfect timing, reviewing a Thai sheng version just after discussing those in relation to sharing one in a Chinatown tasting session and post.  I just bought this.  Last year I tried three exceptional versions of Thai sheng (pu'er-like tea) from Aphiwat, this producer, and from Wawee Tea and Moychay, and his may have been my favorite.  That last post goes into all that, with vendor contacts, and earlier review citations.

For completeness this is Aphiwat's FB profile link and this is his FB business page, and this post shows pictures of where he lives, and the clothing style that's typically worn by his local indigenous group.  His earlier description of their name was interesting:

We are not Archer Arkhar. The real name is Aownye Gaokhue, or Aownyer Kokhue.  But other people call us Archer Arkha.

Aphiwat

that traditional clothing (photo provided by Aphiwat, for an earlier post)

Review:

editing notes, second round trial input:  I tried this again later, after earlier on--here--struggling to place a fruit aspect.  It's like fresh pineapple.

How could I miss that, and how could sheng taste like pineapple?  I think it would be natural for someone else to interpret it as a lighter lemon citrus note, with other fruit included, and I did compare it to other tropical fruit in the first review.  

Note that I mean fresh pineapple, which is nothing like the canned version.  There are lots of versions of pineapple, and this related flavor is in a rich and warm but also bright range.  Onto the original review.

first infusion:  I think maybe this is just a little better than last year's!  It's absurd how pleasant this tea is.  To be sure some of that is from me growing to love Thai sheng style and aspects more and more over the last two years.  

Floral tone is the main input, rich and sweet, and complex.  It's sweet and intense like lavender, but lighter in tone, maybe most similar to the flowering tropical vines by our house.

There is some bitterness, yet to evolve much, and some other vegetal flavor range, close to flower stem.  There's a catchy warm tone, maybe not so far off honey sweetness input, of course linking to the high level of sweetness, and I think mineral supports the rest, giving it complexity.  

That honey, warm tone, and floral range might remind me of sunflower, or beeswax, maybe also matching some tropical fruit.  

second infusion:  beeswax seems an even closer match this round.  Lots of floral range too, or maybe that's as naturally interpreted as fruit.  

Bitterness is picking up with intensity (although to be clear this had been at a good intensity level last round, and it's just that much stronger for brewing for another 10 second round this time), but it's not bitter at all for young sheng.  Sometimes that's a sign that the tea was oxidized in processing, swapping out some bitterness input for sweetness and warmer tone, but I'm not so sure about this.  

If this had oxidized more than for standard Yunnan sheng processing that would cost it for long-term aging potential.  To me this tea shouldn't be aged anyway, because it's fantastic now, and it would be a stretch to guess that it might get better.  

The sweetness, rich warmth, high level of complex floral and fruit input, and balanced, complementary vegetal range that makes this work as well as it does.  I can't say for sure that this is better than last year, but maybe just a little.  

third infusion:  the rich feel keeps ramping up along with the depth, complexity, and intensity.  Looking closer at the leaves there is minor color variation to them.  It's possible that they've maxed out complexity by inconsistently processing these leaves, with some just a bit more oxidized than others, or maybe some heated a little more, drawing out more fragrance towards green tea character.  It's a happy accident if so; it's great.

Aftertaste experience is really nice in this too, the way sweetness carries over, and the mild bitter edge, floral tone, even the rich feel, to some extent.  A minute later it's still trailing off, and two minutes on it's more faint but not gone.  For sure some Yunnan versions express even crazier degrees of aftertaste experience, but that does add depth.  The most pleasant part of the experience is the initial taste, where you just go "wow!" every round.

fourth infusion:  the floral and fruit intensity is crazy.  I think it could be that fruit even more of an input than floral range, depending on interpretation, really a complex set of aspects.  This might be closest to fresh lychee in flavor, although that can include a mild citrus and spice range aspect that this doesn't, so it's just the light but rich fruit part of that.  It's not far off rambutan either.  

That warmth, which I've said is related to either honey or rich floral tone, is also similar to dried longan.  Dried longan is very pleasant, along the line of dried date but not earthy, maybe a little towards blueberry, or closest to Chinese date (jujube).

fifth infusion:  a flavor list doesn't do justice to how complex, integrated, and intense this is.  Bitterness joining the rest is pleasant at this moderate level.  People link that to a hui gan theme, a bitterness experience that changes to sweetness, sometimes associated with specific mouthfeel forms, but both inputs are there in that first wave of flavor, and both carry over afterwards. 

leaf color variation is even clearer in later rounds

sixth infusion:  that beeswax flavor input also makes this very catchy, along with all the rest being intense and well-balanced.  With twice the level of bitterness I would still love this tea, but it would fall within a more conventional sheng experience range.  The rest shines much more for balancing in this way, the sweetness and other intensity.  

Of course this tea is far from finished; it brewed well over a dozen rounds, but the notes start to repeat, and the write-up runs too long.  This didn't transition to be a lot different in later rounds.

Conclusion

I think I love this tea much more than most would because it's such a good match to my personal preferences.  I love Thai versions of sheng, the typical flavor set and feel of them, and this may be my favorite example so far.  And one of my favorite teas I've tried in general; it's really something.  

The 2022 version had a potential problem in not being as fully dried as cakes tend to be, and it was pressed a little tight, and this version corrects all that.  It was easy to get a 7 or so gram flake to peel off one side with almost no effort.  Since the leaf layering pattern is a little different for this being hand-pressed one might need to adjust a conventional tea-pick or knife cake / bing separation approach, but after that it's easily accessible.

Wawee Thai Baozhong (light Taiwanese style oolong)

 

This is another from a set of teas sent to me by that friend from the Iris Cafe Nimman in Chiang Mai (on Instagram here), which are mostly Thai teas, but not all that.  Baozhong--pouchong in the older transliteration form--isn't one of the oolong types I've had much exposure to but the few versions I've tried have all been very pleasant.  They tend to be light in style, sweet, maybe a bit vegetal, but with floral and other positive flavor range that sets them far apart from green teas.  So like light Tie Guan Yin versions but completely different, I guess.  

This tea version isn't listed on Wawee Tea's website, but it's made by them.

I don't think that type description is far off the mark but let's check a Teapedia page reference:

Baozhong (包種) is a lightly oxidized oolong tea with twisted shape, floral notes. Baozhong is mostly only light or entirely unroasted. It is produced mainly in Fujian, China, and in Taiwan.

Its name in Chinese, literally "the wrapped kind", refers to a practice of wrapping the leaves in paper during the drying process that has largely been discontinued due to advancement in tea processing. At its best, Baozhong gives off a floral and melon fragrance and has a rich, mild taste.

Usually around the end of March, begins picking of this famous Taiwan "spring tea" (春茶).

If I would've read this before making these notes I probably would've mentioned melon; so that kind of suggestion influence goes.  It's not a shock that a Taiwanese tea type could've originated in China but in this case that's completely unfamiliar.  

In Google searching a second reference a mainly Taiwanese vendor, Te Company in NYC, doesn't mention the connection back to Fujian, but they do say that "Typically, the Boazhong oolong in Taiwan uses either the Qingxin variety or the TRES no. 12 (milk oolong) to be the base of their production."  Interesting.  Of course the #12 cultivar is Jin Xuan.

Review

first infusion:  a little light, but still very pleasant.  Creaminess stands out most, that feel, and how it seems to tie over to sweet, light, and floral.  There's even actual cream-like taste, not exactly like a milk-oolong effect, like a Jin Xuan version that tastes creamy, but towards that.  There's a nice nutty range that compliments all the rest, rich, light, and sweet, maybe closest to macadamia nuts.  

Since I did brew this for between 15 and 20 seconds it's not necessarily very light only due to short infusion time.  Against my natural inclination I backed off proportion a bit, more in a normal range, so I'll need to keep using timing around that range to keep infusion strength up.  I think this could stay on the subtle side related to bright and intense floral aromatics, but we'll see.  For now all that depth and complexity lends it a nice balance.  The sweet, light nature is really novel and pleasant.  I suppose vegetal range at this stage is closest to very fresh sugar snap peas.

intensity is great for these rounds; it's light because oxidation level is moderate

second infusion:  not transitioned much; everything in the first round description still applies in the same way.  This tea is very appealing for reasons that might not describe well.  There's an initial pop of brighter flavor, even though it's not as intense as the other parts of the experience, that creaminess combined with that one vegetal tone and more subdued floral range.  The sensation of creaminess occurs on more than one level, so that's interesting and novel.  Warmer tone range, the macadamia nut, gives it depth, so there's a lot to take in at the same time; it's complex.  Sweetness level is really nice, and an extra finish / aftertaste aspect gives it even more complexity.  All of that is really clean; there isn't a single hint of off flavor, dullness, muting from storage input, odd wood or mineral tone, etc.  It's really nice.

third infusion:  infusing this for slightly longer, out towards 30 seconds, may have changed the character as much as typical infusion transitions.  Depth and warm tones stand out even more.  It will be interesting trying a really light round next time to see which input led to what.  

Creaminess and sweetness back off a bit, and although it's still quite pleasant that earlier balance was really catchy.  Warm tone related to nuts shifts some; this resembles cashews as much as macadamia nuts at this point.  A creamy effect didn't drop out, it just changed, with less cream flavor input, less bright in flavor character.  Mouthfeel is still very pleasant, rich and light at the same time, and interesting mix.  I've been drinking mostly sheng for quite awhile so it's odd, and also nice, to switch off that very intense bitterness, intense flavors, and strong feel structure range.

fourth infusion:  I brewed this the shortest time of any infusion yet, down at 15 seconds or so, so the difference should be interesting.  Brighter flavor range does stand out more again, the sweetness, non-distinct floral range, and even the sugar snap pea again, but it comes at a cost of the tea feeling thinner, with less creaminess and depth.  Someone might prefer to drink every round prepared this way though, to maximize that light and sweet flavor range experience.  In the middle would be fine for me, trying to maximize both ranges to the extent that's possible, drawing out this sweet range and also including more warm tones and depth, without brewing strong enough to overshadow the first part.

It's interesting that I drink this tea differently than sheng pu'er; I find myself slurping it to maximize that volatile range experience.  Sheng often just smacks you in the mouth, so that there's not necessarily an instinct to maximize intensity.  And I kind of like that; there are days when I'll drink a 10 year old Xiaguan tuocha--way too intense, not age-transitioned enough to be ready--because I want to experience that hit.  This tea isn't subtle, like some wispy white version where you are struggling to pick up what's there, so it's more about maximizing the experience instead, wanting to experience what is apparent in as strong a form as possible.  The gaiwan is a bit over 3/4 full, so there isn't much range to bump that by adding more tea, but looked at another way  it's nearly 1/4 empty, so there still is.

That will do it for notes; this will shift just a little over another half a dozen infusions, but that's most of the story, and it's nicer to enjoy teas without writing half the time.

Conclusions

Just fantastic tea!  It's a little simpler and less intense than all the sheng pu'er I've been drinking for a long time but the intensity was fine, and character very novel and pleasant.  That flavor range and effect of creaminess were great, with nothing like a flaw entering in.  Adjusting brewed intensity would let you shift experienced aspects a bit, even though you don't get that from round to round transition.  It really did brew another half dozen very positive rounds, fading some, but quite pleasant through those, and nice enough to keep stretching after that.

I've never had a Thai tea version in this style.  Thinking back one from Indonesia wasn't all that far off it, from Toba Wangi, even though I think I didn't get that clarified for the review being so long ago (7 years back; that was a bit early in my blogging for it to reflect a developed perspective, but at least I was already checking out interesting teas).

To an extent Thai teas can be unfairly pigeonholed as most often copying Taiwanese styles, beyond the newer sheng range, and hit and miss efforts at black teas, most typically not as successfully as the best Vietnamese versions.  I think that's because "plantation teas" only need to be as good as they have happened to be in the past, with emphasis on stretching production volume instead of developing better and better versions.  This is something else altogether, and in one sense these kinds of exceptions aren't so rare now, if you can keep turning them up.  I've reviewed some amazing Thai teas over the last three years, and a more limited set in the three years before that, but some then too.

Would this version "hold its own" against above average Taiwanese range?  I'm not the right person to weigh in on that; my exposure to that scope is way too limited.  I would guess that it would be a problem to narrow down expectations in any fair or broadly meaningful way.  I can pass on the opinion that it's quite good tea, novel and very pleasant, obviously high in quality level, and that will have to do.

Wawee Tea Thai Hong Wulong and Thai black tea

I'm reviewing two more teas shared by that friend who is a co-owner of the Iris Cafe Nimman in Chiang Mai, Thailand.  The hong wulong is from Wawee Tea, as was the last sheng version I reviewed recently.  For the black tea it's from Wang Put Tan, a Thai producer that I'm not familiar with.  I don't know more about it, but if someone is really set on finding it that producer link is your starting point.  Turning it up may or may not be possible, since small batch production does occur in some cases, with not everything being made to sell at higher volume as a standard type.

Related to their business theme, the Iris Cafe Nimman, it's kind of the opposite of an old Chinese shop that sells dozens of types of loose teas, and not really an updated mall-type version with a more curated, medium quality list either, but they do tasting events related to good specialty teas, so they're probably worth checking out for locals there or people visiting.  So far I've only described what the shop is not, not what it is, so I'll include some of what that owner said about that:

We do sell teas by the gram, in 50 grams bags, of medium and higher quality.  Teas can be enjoyed onsite as a gongfu session or using western preparation.  The menu is eclectic, from flavored French teas to high end, like good shi feng longjing.

In terms of theme it's a coffee shop.  It lacks the decoration, decorum, and cultural aspect of Chinese tea houses for sure - just like most matcha shops are not all that Japanese, instead based on modern design themes.

So that's it; really a hybrid of a standard coffee shop theme with a lot of traditional Chinese tea house offerings included.  Sounds nice.

On tea type word use, "wulong" really is a better transliteration of the Chinese term for oolong, but since oolong has become a standard and accepted English word only a limited subset of people take it up.  They're not wrong, or even more right in one sense, but that gets to be more about how one views living languages and borrowing of words, at times changing transliteration forms, than about tea history or background.  "Literally" really does mean "figuratively" in one sense, and in another it still doesn't, no matter what some dictionaries opt to include.  

"Red oolong" more often refers to a very oxidized variation of Taiwanese style ball rolled oolong, so oxidized that it's essentially a black tea.  That meaning and style could vary, and of course this isn't a ball-rolled tea.

hong (red) oolong left, black tea right, in all photos

Review:

interesting the oolong started slower, maybe related to a varying bruising / kneading step

Hong Wulong:  a bit subtle at this point.  That can relate to not using a rinse, for the first round to always come across a bit light.  It's promising, but it's as well to describe it more next round instead.  What the heck; it's interesting for being subtle, and rich and warm, with one layer a honey sweetness range, and another a sort of caramelized grain tone.  This will be unique, but intensity could be an issue.

Thai Black:  this got a much faster start, so describing it works.  It tastes like a novel and good version of black tea.  Sweetness stands out, and rich warm tones, with a single fruit note very pleasant amidst a lot of other things going on, sort of in a dried dark cherry range.  No, that's exactly it.  

We visited my brother living in New Mexico (Alamagordo, kind of out there, not so far from where the nuclear tests were, I think), and picked dark cherries, and dried them there at home, and the results were fantastic, with this flavor note a call-back to that experience.  I'll do a longer list next round for this too though.

Hong Wulong, second infusion:  seemingly this is going to stay subtle, even as different flavors and layers unfold.  It has great depth and positive feel, and there's plenty going on, so what I mean is that it's quiet on the higher and more forward side, or some might call that fragrant or aromatic flavor range, but it's not missing that, the balance is just unique.  Warm and rich tones stand out most, the base layer, and beyond that a rich feel.  There is pleasant aromatic range, towards spice tones, which someone could see as including floral range, I guess, but it's harder to break apart for being subtle.  It still seems complex because there's so much going on at that one deeper layer, the base.  It's a little like coffee flavor, one part, and another is that rich sweetness from Wuyi Yancha that's also hard to pin down, between molasses, leather, and warm wood range, or maybe a little of all that mixed together.  

It's clean in nature, refined, and the balance is better than it sounds, for one part of the range seeming a bit muted in comparison with the rest.  In noticing the cacao (noted on the sample label) one part is like that, it includes it, but it's one part of a complex range, all of which seems a bit quieter to me than a heavier tone base.  Maybe this "spatial" arrangement of flavors isn't familiar, or doesn't seem even potentially descriptive, so people who can't relate to that at all can just ignore that part.  It might just be part of how I personally map out a broad range of different aspects, not a universal way people would naturally interpret all that.

Thai Black:  this is more forward / higher end range oriented, which is quite normal for black teas, with a good, rich base.  That one dried dark cherry note is already giving way to warmer and deeper tones.  

I like the tea (and the other version too; I tend to forget to include that).  The feel is a little thin, and it has some complexity but not in the sense of an overall balanced intensity, so it's more on the page of including some positive flavors that work well together, rather than stacking up as a refined, balanced, most exceptional version.  Which to me is fine; a tea that tastes good, in a novel range, with a positive feel, and no notable flaws is fine.  Every tea doesn't have to cover everything.

Hong Wulong, third infusion:  I brewed these longer, at 30 seconds or just over (of course I'm not timing anything), because both will be fine at higher infusion strength.  I backed off proportion just a little in relation to my norm, so they needed 15 seconds just to be equivalent, versus a more typical 10, but longer could work better.

Intensity increased along with infusion strength, of course.  Usually that will increase tea feel, the astringency, and increase intensity of what I've been calling base tones, with aromatic range stronger too, but you can only relate to so much of that at one time.  Brewing a tea very light is much better for identifying lighter aromatic range, it seems to me, maybe even better in general for analyzing a tea, but for this tea it kind of wasn't optimum.  Cacao is still there, so that label note is right, but I'm accustomed to how that can really be a main dominant aspect instead in some Dian Hong.  Here it's a bit lost in the warmer range, in spice-like tones, or warm mineral range, molasses sweetness, and what seems similar to roasted oolong notes, toward dark wood or rich leather.  Everything in this is positive, and it works well together, but it's only hitting a limited range of aspects.  

Trying single-input versus blended teas can work out like this.  The trade-off in blending (as normal Shui Xian Fujian oolong versions would be) is that you gain balance and complexity across a broad range and lose the distinct notes, the few positive individual flavor inputs I've been describing.  I guess that works for all types blending, really.  I must admit that I'm more of a fan of this theme, of accepting whatever trade-offs in terms of balance and broad range complexity occur in order to experience that more limited range.  Then in some of the most exceptional, best made tea versions, based on using exceptional material, you seem to be able to have it all, and get distinct positive flavors, complexity, depth, great feel and aftertaste, intensity, balance, refinement, etc.  This covers half that set; not bad.

Thai Black:  this actually has as much rich feel and slightly more aftertaste than the other tea, even though it's a black tea version versus what seems to be an oolong (hong oolong would mean red oolong, so generally used to mean more oxidized oolongs, which tend to be about as oxidized as lighter oxidation black teas).  And even it's a little thin in body across one part of the range.  Higher end astringency, mouthfeel as texture, isn't bad, but there isn't much to it, but then it has a depth of feel that comes across as a general fullness, just stopping short of richness.  Am I even still making sense?

For flavor an inky sort of mineral depth evolves, which might sound bad, but I like that.  Early fruitiness has given way to richer spice-range tones, for the most part, pretty close to cinnamon, just not exactly that. 

Hong Wulong, fourth infusion:  more of the same, which is a good thing.  This really has been evolving to a more evenly balanced nature, which I might've mentioned last round but didn't.  I mean that the flavor profile doesn't seem to express a gap in one "section or part."  Complexity picked up a bit too; warmer tones still have a nice base covered, but lighter sweet range now a little towards dried fruit fill in a "higher end" too.  Sweetness is good in this.  

That warm fruit range might be similar to dried tamarind or dried longan flavor, not exactly either, but towards that.  Molasses-like rich sweetness gives it all good balance.  Even feel thickened a little, and aftertaste isn't pronounced, but also not missing.  It's nice.  It doesn't remind me of one typical type style, which I don't see as a bad thing, maybe slightly more positive than negative.

Thai Black:  one part of this I've not described well is really catchy, something that hits you right away.  Maybe it's much harder to identify because it's a set of aspects, not one thing, but it integrates in your experience.  It could be the way a set of aspects resonate together, so it comes across as ringing does in sound, as a repeating resonance.  One base mineral tone, like slate, seems to match a narrow middle layer, like that earlier-dominant cherry fruit, and then there's a higher end sort of rich floral note that's much harder to pin down, but it's integrated with that set.  Back to walking off the map, I guess.  Cinnamon range is transitioning to really taste like cinnamon.  

It's not complex in the sense there's tons going on, distributed across layers of levels, but that set jumping out and then balancing in that way is very pleasant.  Rich feel helps too, and limited aftertaste experience lends complexity, with good sweetness level making it all work better.  As for smoke again unless that's tied to a deeper mineral / base earthy tone it's just not there, and if it is that it's a great contribution.

Of course both teas are far from finished, but this is a good place to leave off taking notes, since another interesting transition or two won't change the overall story much.

Conclusions:

I guess I like the second better, the black tea.  Both include interesting aspects across a good range, both express a decent degree of depth and complexity, in ways that could be interpreted as including limitations.  It's a little harder to place how a lack of flaws enters in related to both; they're not there, so you can't directly evaluate that, beyond the first covering a limited aspect range, not being completely balanced.  Both have a clean, refined nature in part related to that.  

The flavor set is more interesting in the black tea, I think, and it was more balanced across a broad aspect range.  If cacao really was more dominant in the oolong version that might've been better, but it's fine as it is.  For both you either have to appreciate the way it all comes together or else these could be hard to relate to, for not matching a conventional Chinese style.

There's a trend in some tea enthusiast circles, and tea appreciation, of a sort of one-upmanship, which I try to reject expressing or being a part of here.  In some discussion tea versions need to be the best of a standard type, or really unique related to a set of aspects, or very complex, refined, and balanced, or else they can be all but dismissed with a mediocre quality range judgement, interpreted as "so-so."  I don't mean that as blaming anyone; my point is that there's a natural progression to drink better and better tea, until eventually that progression can throw off enjoyment of most of what exists (potentially; again this isn't a critique of Western tea culture, or anything like that).  Loving these simple tea versions, which are not necessarily the most complex and balanced, or representative of one type, could potentially drop out, even though they are very interesting, unique, and positive.

A tea friend just expressed that he sees Chinese teas as setting the standard for everything else, in terms of style and quality, so that if other teas tend to be equivalent in terms of experienced aspects and character then you might as well focus more on standard Chinese versions.  I get that, but you're going to see the same diversity of experiences within Chinese teas too.  That's unless you seek out "most representative" examples of standard types, which producers may provide you based on use of careful blending formulas, mixing inputs until they can give you what you expect.  Or the best of the best tea versions are something else, covering it all, but that's something else.  

In that blending theme discussion I'm not talking about combining Assam and Ceylon to make English Breakfast Tea, I mean that individual production batches always have a limited character range, which can be taken as flaws, for not being more complex or balanced better, or else a natural character best appreciated by focusing on what is positive instead.  I place this by paralleling it with wine blending; usually that works to sell mediocre wine as better mediocre wine, but in the case of exceptional Bordeaux blends it's something else, about harmonizing and maximizing already positive but limited range inputs.  Someone might love good blends most or else good individual varietal types, and neither would be wrong.  Enjoying it all is possible.

But then these are just my thoughts.  What do you think?

2022 Wawee gushu Thai sheng

 

An online friend sent some teas to review, not exactly in the role of a tea vendor, but he does operate a cafe that sells tea in Chiang Mai, Thailand, along with his wife.  That's the Iris café Nimman, so if you wanted to talk to him about local teas that would work.  I'll include what producer this is from, but I'll review others he sent later, and probably won't express that for all of them.  He's holding a tea tasting soon, on Feb. 5, so if you are in Chiang Mai that's a good opportunity to check in with him and compare notes about Thai teas (or this Insta profile covers that CM tastings theme).

This is a sheng version from Wawee, which is a village and tea producing area, that specializes in sheng as much as anything.  In this case the producer name is also Wawee Tea, after the area they're in.  It's not necessarily "pu'er," since China prefers that designation be regionally restricted to Yunnan, but it's the exact same tea, made from the same genetic range of plants--per my take anyway.  This tea type was probably being produced in a related form a couple of hundred years before that legal designation came to be, or maybe even before the Yunnan village-name type designation evolved.   

I had a feeling that this tea was probably sold out already, that word has long since been out, and production of this product version is limited, and that's the case, it's not available.  Other loose tea is available from them, and time passes quickly, so spring harvest will come soon.

Review:

First infusion:  there's a distinctive smell that good Thai sheng often has that even the initial wet leaves of this gives off.  It's like smelling a blackberry bush, a sweet and rich smell, with some limited wood tone component, maybe pulled just a little towards rich leather scent.  This is going to be nice.

As expected this first round is subtle; I skipped the rinse since it doesn't change much, and you end up experiencing a subtle first round either way.  Warm sweet tones stand out, with bitterness not yet extracting, but it will.  Sometimes naturally grown older plants can be milder in form, trading out typical rough edges for intensity and depth across some other range, but that really also depends on the plant types and processing inputs.  Next rounds' flavor list will show more of where this is going.

Second infusion:  there's that bitterness, and all the rest, plenty of flavor intensity, and a unique and full feel.  Aromatic flavor range is amazing, as I would've expected.  Breaking that down:  related to taste it's so complex that a set of flavors stands out more than any one or two.  There is definitely floral range as a main component, and the bitterness, with a rich citrusy aspect joining those as also primary.  There's the standard mineral tone, here not bright and flinty or warm and on the deep side, but complex, and balanced towards the lighter range.  

This flavor set overlaps a lot with a Thai forest origin tea version that included a very catchy flavor element, which this also includes, a personal favorite.  To me it seems like a heavy and rich floral tone, along the line of lavender, mixed with a similar or matching fruit aspect, which is a bit harder to place.  Citrus is included, so maybe it's only that, that a set of lavender and rich warm and sweet orange or tangerine seems to combine.  I just revisited a really nice wild forest origin Thai sheng from elsewhere, a Moychay initiative based out of the Maetang mountains area (reviewed here), and it's slightly different, overlapping some, but with heavier and deeper flavors and a bit more mineral base.

As to bitterness level, sweetness, and feel it's all in very positive range.  Bitterness isn't heavy but there's enough to balance the rest, sweetness is definitely pronounced, and feel is rich and full.  Feel isn't heavy, structured, or dry, but just full, a little towards how lighter oolongs come across compared to the standard range of harsher and drier young sheng.  Aftertaste experience is nice; the bitterness, sweetness, and floral mixed with fruit tones linger on and on.  Next one might wonder if atypical, slightly extended oxidation level processing didn't help lead to these positive flavor aspects, and moderate bitterness and astringency, which I'll try to sort out a bit as I go [later edit:  I never do revisit the processing theme in these notes, saying only a little about oxidation level, but there's not much novel insight I would've added if I had].

Third infusion:  a first impression of drinking each round is of how good this is, how it's complex and positive across so much range, so many levels.  The aspect listing form may not do it justice but flavor range, feel, balance, intensity, and refinement are all great.

Then it's essentially the same list as before, mostly floral tone that seems to include a fruit edge that I can't isolate, beyond part of that relating to citrus.  There's also good mineral depth, a wood tone or spice range that's not woody in a conventional sense, but a deeper and more subtle experience of the forest itself, maybe not so far off the scent of a blackberry patch, as I'd mentioned.  The wood tone seems to span a brighter and lighter range, like blackberry briar stem, conventional green wood tone (light in effect, combining with the rest), and also a richer and deeper component, linking with warm mineral range, like some sort of lacquer.  

Permit me an aside:  when I was 13 I helped my parents build a house, which really took some doing, and they sided it with wood processed by local Amish people, and stained that a dark color.  This reminds me a bit of that heavy scent of so much cured wood mixed with heavy and rich chemicals, not so much those that seemed more volatile and harsh, but instead the other (probably natural?) aromatic oils designed to preserve the wood, to integrate with it and change it.

all great memories from that place

the kids' first snowmen, in the back yard, on a visit awhile back

I'm already feeling this tea; a heady buzz is kicking in.  I'll often eat a substantial breakfast, including both carbs and some fat, to prepare my stomach and in part to offset that effect, probably mostly slowing how fast it kicks in.  So far today I've only eaten fruit, papaya from the house mixed with orange.  I'll eat a couple of cookies to make sure my stomach stays settled and keep going.  And will make more notes and transitions next round.  For offsetting palate effect from eating foods between rounds, even mild foods, drinking water helps; no need to make a resolution step more complicated than it needs to be.

Fourth infusion:  the balance of what I've already described just keeps shifting.  Warmer tones pick up, and lighter floral range and the light woody edge give way.  It's not as bright in citrus range but one part still seems related, filling in that effect of complexity.  Again bitterness is at a great level in this, substantial but not dominant.  And feel is a very positive input, lending it structure and rich complexity, but not venturing into harsher and drier range, not challenging at all.  

A warm and sweet tone is emerging from within range I had described in other ways, tied to the lavender floral aspect, but also a little towards flavor I tend to describe as resinous, or aromatic in a similar way as perfume.  It could seem like I'm splitting hairs now, letting imagination wander to provide justification of an effect of complexity, but there really is something interesting there.  It's drawing on aromatic spice or even cacao range.

Fifth infusion:  this isn't evolving / changing enough to describe that, but I can compare the experience to the other Thai tea I'm saying overlaps with it.  Maybe I could've done so more directly in combined tasting, since I have more of that tea, but I'll go on memory instead.  This shares that really appealing and intense floral range that has lots of adjoined complexity, but this seems to add depth beyond that.  It's not just warmer tone range and more mineral, although there is that, there's a much greater experience of complexity, and the balance is different, the sense of refinement that comes across.  I suspect that both were made from really good material, and then marginal differences in that input and processing lends this slightly greater refinement and range.  

Maybe there is something to that gushu theme people go on and on about.  I've tried dozens of teas presented as such but it can be hard sorting out input differences, or knowing if that really means anything or not.  I asked one vendor, who sells a lot of versions as gushu, how it would work out that they're using old plant material without mixing versions from differing plant ages, since even in a stand of hundreds of years old trees there would be plants of different ages.  He said that they typically clear other smaller plants from older ones, so they grow more alone.  

Then at some point you get a sense it's just stories being passed on, and actual background details are probably something else.  Of course plants could grow in different environments and producers could harvest in any way they choose to, even producing tea versions only from individual plants, and they do in some cases, but I'm still not much for stories.  Later the experience speaks for itself.

Sixth infusion:  again that balance of aspects is just a marvel, the way rich floral tones combine with what I'm interpreting as citrus, warm mineral tones, one range a bit towards wood or spice, and a light resinous edge that is very positive.  This tea may or may not really improve with age but I would have to own more than I tend to ever buy to keep some beyond the intermediate 3 or 4 year range to see how it starts shifting.  

Seventh infusion:  I might've mentioned that I'm preparing this as a maxed-out proportion, my usual approach, brewed for just under 10 seconds still.  I had two thirds this much leaf in the gaiwan, ready to start, and couldn't pull the trigger on changing form.  Recently I did drink a some decade old Xiaguan tuo (11 years old, it was) prepared at two thirds this proportion, which was hard to prep, making myself back off.  That paid off because I could drink a full round brewed for longer time, so I didn't need to come back in the afternoon to the same tea again.

Range of what I'm experiencing could've narrowed ever so slightly, but it's as likely that brewed intensity is finally dropping off, requiring a full dozen seconds to match earlier results.  Or it's nice like this, lighter.  Positive feel, the way it coats your mouth, and a very pleasant aftertaste rush help contribute to an impression of complexity.   

I think with absolutely no acclimation to the experience of bitterness in sheng this tea could seem slightly disagreeable, but in comparison to versions like that Xiaguan tuo (not yet really aged to where it should be) this is a lot like an oolong:  mild, sweet, and approachable.  Too much like an oolong?  Absolutely not, per my judgement, because the tea experience is fantastic, but I suppose preferences vary.

Eighth infusion:  I brewed this slightly longer, to get intensity back up, and that resinous edge is the strongest it has been yet.  It's a bit on towards pine sap, which one never tastes, so I mean related to that scent.  That flavor range alone probably wouldn't be positive, but integrated and matched to the rest it's novel and very pleasant in this.  That minor shift in intensity really comes through in feel too, an effect across your entire mouth, versus some sheng experience settling on one place more.  A minute after drinking the tea the echo of all of it persists, flavor and feel, with mouthfeel lingering a lot more than is typical.

Ninth infusion:  probably this is narrowing in range and complexity a little, but the parts that are evolving are quite pleasant, and that great feel and aftertaste keep it from seeming simple, or even average in level of complexity.  It's the same fantastic balance, between warm floral tone, citrus input, resinous pine edge, and warm underlying mineral range, with some degree of other spice and fruit range there to be interpreted in different ways.  This experience didn't disappoint; it was exactly what I expected, except a little better.

Conclusions:

The tea wasn't finished at that point but it did fade a good bit over a few more rounds, then I brewed it a few more after that anyway.  It was only that fantastic for those first 9 rounds, maybe not quite as nice the last one or two, but all of a dozen were very good.

I've been considering how different types of tea would age for a number of years, but I wasn't really trying aged versions and starting to own teas to try over time until about 4 or 5 years ago, so in a sense I'm new to this (yep, that's how sheng pu'er exploration goes).  I first owned a version of a sheng cake about a decade ago, but not really having early exploration well-informed and dialed in led to sorting through oolongs and whatever else more for that first half dozen years.  Which is fine; it's a good base for experiencing pu'er, and it takes time and exposure to appreciate the bitterness input.

It might sound like there was very little bitterness in this, since I explicitly described it as a main early flavor but then kept downplaying that as a main factor, and dropped it out of descriptions a few rounds in.  To me it wasn't bitter, but that's in comparison with other young sheng range.  8 or 9 months of aging is negligible, related to how this tea might have already transitioned, even though brand new maocha isn't exactly the same after the first couple of months.  That's a similar contradiction as saying that the tea had bitterness as a primary flavor input but that it was very moderate for the type, so not really an interesting or relevant factor, beyond how well it balanced with the rest (well, this time).  Character could and would change some over 8 or 9 months but compared to a more significant 2 or 3 years of early transition phase the tea is not so different yet.

But would this age well; is it suitable for storing for 15 to 20 years, to enjoy as a completely different thing then?  Did a higher level of oxidation cause this to be approachable within one year, versus other inputs that could lead to that effect (plant type, age, growing conditions input, other processing variations...)?  I don't know, really.  I could guess but it wouldn't be based on much, and not reliable.  Oxidation level you can kind of see in wet plant leaf and brewed liquid color, but I don't want to make too much of that judgement.  This isn't a step towards black tea, as some more oxidized sheng can be, but it's hard for me to judge how variations in wilting time changes versions.

For me this tea is so positive now that it's a strange question to be asking, about long term aging potential; why would you really want to experience a lot of this aged to be completely different, waiting 15 years for that, when it's great now?  I could see stocking up a half dozen small cakes, burning through a couple, and then seeing what this is like in 3 or 4 years, maybe holding off on touching one or two for that decade of time.  But if I owned two I'd drink one now and another within that shorter time-frame, in some years, as occurred with the tea I've tried that's most similar to this, and I would never know about long term potential.

To me it's something of a myth that sheng pu'er always improves with age (and again this isn't pu'er, unless you think it is, that the Chinese have overstepped naming conventions assignment, but even then you have to sort through variations in styles that can correspond to areas, to be clear on what changes you should expect over time).  Sheng always changes, but preference is what dictates optimum forms.  A tea friend once mentioned that different sheng versions would have a different sweet spot for optimum transition, and that makes sense to me.  It would be atypical for that optimum to be in the middle age range, from 6 to 10 years, or however one sees that, but some being better new or after limited aging, 3 or 4 years, makes sense to me.  And it would be fine if others completely reject that, and don't like the same types of sheng that I do, or the same aspect profiles.

What about more grounded, shared-perspective, Western tea circle optimums, what other types of tea bloggers who lean into group input more (and spending / tea budget) settle on?  Beyond being too broad a theme to add a couple of sentences on there definitely are a range of sheng starting points that many see as optimum only after 20 or so years, and then only coupled with carefully optimized (and potentially type-matched) storage conditions inputs.  I've been exploring aged sheng more over the past year or so, with a dozen or so posts here about that theme, but it seems reasonable to point out that I've not really tried to seek out a relative optimum.  Spending a lot, drawing on experienced group input, and exploring varying sources would work better for that than trying a bit of this or that, whatever comes up, with budget as a main limitation.  

I don't see that limitation as a problem, for appreciating and to an extent evaluating a broad range of other tea.  Here I discuss what I experience and like, and it's too long a theme to treat here but saying that I love a tea isn't necessarily a claim that it's located at some objective quality level, or in a clear type positioning.  This compares really well to every Thai sheng that I've ever tried, not really a large set, maybe only a dozen versions.

On a completely unrelated personal note I plan to fast again starting tomorrow, so I'm not sure how tea experience will work out over the next week, and I'll finish editing this working through that initial hunger.  Maybe I'll go 7 days; I'll play it by ear, seeing how I feel after 5.  This time I plan to include tea and tisanes, to the extent those sound good to me, seeing how that changes the experience.  Just no calories of any kind, beyond what happens to be in tea and tisanes, so essentially none.  I think I'll try running too, to use this trial to test out a few changes in approach, but I'll let the initial hunger phase mostly work through first, which took three days last time.  

I'm not advocating fasting, just exploring it, with more on how that went the last time here.  Eating every day seems normal, and I'm not sure which of the potential health benefits actually work out.  I don't think I lost any weight, and the main difference might have been that it seemed to help with energy level while running later on.

perfect timing for the squirrel to eat part of one papaya; I switched to more opaque bags

[Later edit]  I'm on day 4 of that fast, and it has went really well.  Drinking tea hasn't caused stomach problems, or seemingly changed the experience that much, but I feel more comfortable and less hungry than in two earlier trials.  Running once, only 4 km, felt kind of normal, which is odd.  I'll probably still stop after day 5, because we have two ripe papaya and a bunch of bananas at the house, and I don't want to eat those mushy or freeze them.  

I'm not really trying to lose weight, just experimenting, and if there were any health benefits (weight loss, clearer mind, improve organ health, or reduce cancer risk) 5 days worth of effect will be fine.  The main benefit of fasting, I think, is a reset in eating habits, but since it's not been that long since doing a couple of fasts my habits are fine.