Thai wild origin material Dian Hong style black tea

Not long ago I reviewed a tea that I identified as my favorite sheng version, a pu'er in all but name, since it was from Thailand.  The producer was Aphiwat, someone I've mentioned before.  This time I'm reviewing a Dian Hong style black tea that I also bought.  It's good; I've tried it a few times before this review.

Of course Dian Hong literally means Yunnan black tea, so I mean that it's in a common style related to that type.  The plants are surely quite similar, Assamica trees, and the growing area isn't that far from China, just not that close either, not right across a border.  Dian Hong is actually a broad range, but the most typical version range is exactly like these, with the flavor aspects I'm describing here, or a related set, similar in appearance to this tea.

This is Aphiwat's FB profile link,  and this is his producer vendor page there.  He's not really set up for website based sales, or direct overseas sales, but it's also not a secret what the source is.

Review:

First infusion:  a bit light; I decided to use that approach of brewing the first round light.  It doesn't matter; the fuller flavor and feel will emerge next round either way.  

You can already tell this is great.  Fruit tones emerge, and some cacao, with underlying mineral and some roasted yam.  One part of the fruit is light and citrusy, with a more main part like dried dark cherry.  Sweetness is good, taste is clean, there are no flaws, and feel is already picking up limited fullness.  There is no astringency edge, in the sense that harsher black teas include one.  It's not tart; I dislike that flavor range, and it's nicer for me when it's not there.  It's great.

Second round:  warmer tones pick up; this is plenty strong.  If anything a little over optimum, but that's fine, trying it brewed in different ways.  Feel stands out a lot, extending from richness to very mild dryness, to about as rich and still light as orthodox Assam tends to ever be.  It even resembles malt as much as it's ever going to, made this way.  Fruit still stands out, the same set, dried dark cherry, and a hint of citrus.  Roasted yam, cacao, and mineral depth are still the rest.

Feel is a big part of the story, and sweetness, along with intensity, and balance.  It gets awkward explaining those, without repeating ideas that might not add up to much.  This is a very close match for Dian Hong style; it's just what this tea is.  It's no surprise; it's made from old Assamica plants in the north of Thailand, that match Yunnan versions about as well as any from elsewhere.  And then it's also different; the flavor character would never exactly match, even though it's so close you couldn't say it's not from Yunnan, as you can more easily pick up from sheng versions.

It's just good.  All of those aspects are positive, and they all balance and integrate well.  I could drink this for a month straight, and I barely even drink black tea now.  In a sense it's a simpler, more basic, less refined tea than good oolongs, but it fulfills a different character role.  I'd rather drink this twice a week for a year than almost any oolong version of any kind.  It's a perfect breakfast tea, and it's also good enough to drink alone, to spend a half an hour just appreciating it.

Third infusion:  even brewed quite fast this draws out good intensity.  Lighter flavor tones stand out more brewed faster; the citrus edge in the fruit emerges more, and warmer mineral eases up.  Rich feel doesn't change much, but the light dry edge is gone.  I think cacao stands out slightly more brewed light, but that could be a judgement call.  

I bought a good bit of this tea but I'm thinking of buying more.  I rarely own more than a kilogram of any tea; I don't "tong up" buying pu'er, and have only bought an entire kg of black tea once, a kg and a half, as it turned out.  That was black tea from Viet Sun, that I bought a year ago, a batch that I might only own 100 grams of now.  I gave it away frequently as gifts, to monks, as a thanks to people for helping us, and so on.  It had a tart edge; it didn't match my preference nearly as well, based on just that one secondary flavor input.  So it goes with preference; someone else could appreciate the tartness the most.

I'll brew one more round and drop the note taking.  This doesn't transition as much as some tea types, even though it might include an interesting extra flavor in the next few rounds.

Fourth infusion:  warmth extends just slightly.  Dried cherry might be shifting towards dried tamarind, or it has already changed.  Mineral seems to stand out a little more.  For someone who has never experienced anything like that, mineral really standing out in black tea, oolong, or sheng pu'er, that might not be familiar or meaningful at all.  For people deep into tea exploration they might either seek out and value that input or else see others as more important.  Either way it adds depth and balance to the experience.  It helps a lot having nice sweetness offset it, as is present in this.  It also matches well with the cacao, dried fruit, and roasted yam.

All in all a really nice, basic tea.  It would only seem basic to people who already love Dian Hong style teas, and for them, for someone with my preferences, it's just great.  It wasn't that long ago that you could find pretty good Chinese versions of this that didn't cost much, but I suppose as with most other tea range prices have jumped quite a bit, and more expensive curator sources have replaced market-type options selling good versions.  

Maybe Yunnan Sourcing's versions are this good (for Chinese teas), some of them, or it's possible this is better than the average there.  Tea Side sells Thai Dian Hong style tea directly, but that is likely to cost more than YS Chinese versions.  There's no reason why Myanmar, Laos, and Vietnamese related range couldn't also be good, made in a similar style, from similar material, so there would be plenty of range to look into, but you need to try lots of versions to run across one this good.

my favorite sheng again! a Thai version from Aphiwat.

 

I skipped buying new Thai sheng from my favorite source this year, back closer to spring.  I'd stocked up early in the year, on Vietnamese teas instead, and had bought quite a bit of this version last year, and was limiting tea purchasing to essentially none.

But I just made an exception, and bought some of the 2024 version again, and a Dian Hong-style black tea, again from Aphiwat.  It's more or less my favorite overall sheng version right now, and has been for a year or two.  There is no Western facing vending outlet for this tea, but Aphiwat can be contacted here.

An online group question about the best sheng version I've ever tried (that anyone in the group had) reminded me of the difference between versions seeming exceptional in that way, as a high-water mark, and just being favorites, more within the ordinary range, but special.  I won't shed much light on that difference.  I suppose some LBZ or Bing Dao versions that I've tried were better than this, more interesting, more refined, with more unique and noteworthy sets of aspects.  Many teas have more aging potential; I think this is best for drinking within the first year or two.  

But beyond all that this really clicks for me.  Maybe why will come across in the review, or maybe I'll just not make sense in voicing this divide.

Breaking usual form I've already tried this tea so I know what I think of it.  It's quite good, and relatively similar to last year's version.

Review:

that extra color is probably from some oxidation, not aging effect

1:  I let this brew a little long to get it started; it might be a little rough due to that, and it's definitely slightly overbrewed.  It's on the bitter and intense side, but that's part of what I'm signed up for, what I like about it.  Sweetness is good, and flavor complexity.  Astringency is definitely there but it's not harsh.  Bitterness is pronounced, and a little intense, but not bad, at a decent level.  I'll do more of a flavor list next round.

2:  for flavor breakdown this is mostly floral, and it's always hard for me to describe the level beyond that, which flowers.  One part tastes a little like plant stem, coupled with the bitterness.  Some warmth seems to connect with mineral that's in between light and warm.  For a tea from 2024 that's a lot of transition already, to shift over to not being very light in mineral tone, and other flavor, but that's Thai storage for you, hot and humid, with changes happening fast.  Sweetness level is good; it matches the rest.  Feel is full, with good structure.  Aftertaste is pleasant; it's all the sweeter after you swallow.

Now I'm having trouble explaining why this is so pleasant.  It sounds like lots of other sheng experiences, doesn't it?  It really is, I suppose.  The material seems good, making the balance work.  The intensity is great.  Me liking this style helps a lot, and I really didn't love it as much, before years of trying versions like this.  It evolved to be a favorite.

3:  rich feel is evolving a bit more; I think that's another part of why this works so well for me.  And aftertaste experience; sweetness and some bitterness trails after, and the floral range.  And it's really clean in effect, without much of a hint of a flaw, or off aspect.  I suppose that plant-stem vegetal range tying to the bitterness not everyone would love, but I see that as just as positive as it is negative or neutral.  It works with the rest.

4:  honey-like flavor picks up a little.  It makes the floral range seem to draw closer to tones that align with that, like one would a sunflower to smell, although maybe they don't, really.  My wife and I visited a sunflower farm a couple of years ago, but I don't remember that I tried smelling them.

Related to style, it seems like this might be a little more oxidized than conventional sheng, which is why it's so approachable as such a young version (about 8 or 9 months old, I think; spring can run early here).  That's why the mineral includes warm tones, and why the honey input matches warm floral range.  It all tips just a little towards dried fruit, but that can be hard to place.  Like dried longan, maybe, a personal favorite of mine, or not so far off dried mango, if that's more familiar.  

5:  bitterness and astringency are easing up, but it always was relatively approachable.  It's just pleasant now, well balanced, intense, warmer in tone, quite nice.  

I could say more about minor transitions over another half dozen rounds but that's a main part of the story.  And I have to go; I have other things to do.

later rounds:  I drank another 8 or so infusions the next day; this tea really hangs in there for intensity, and related to staying pleasant.  That's not really even stretching it.  Between the 5th and 9th or so it's at its best; warm honey and fruit flavors really dominate, then bitterness picks up a bit later on.

Christmas

I tried this on Christmas day; odd I hadn't mentioned that.  Kalani was sick, just as Keoni was getting over being sick, so we did kind of a relaxed day, before going out later on.  Shopping for gifts never really came together; at best they got a few token gifts from us, and not much for that.  We spent some of the time planned for that on a doctor visit.  As usual Eye ran late catching up on errands, only back here in Bangkok for the last two days, after spending the fall in the US, where the kids go to school.

I hope everyone reading this is having a great holiday season, and no matter how well or badly gift giving works out that some personal connections make it feel special.

a long nap on Christmas day, after waking up early

doing math assignments on Christmas break; that's not ideal

Christmas Eve outlet outing.  it's great to see them again.

Wawee Tea 2023 gushu Thai sheng

 

An earlier version related to this has been one of my favorites, and this might be as well.  It's from Wawee Tea (also here or here), so from Wawee, the main sheng production area outside of Chiang Rai.  I won't be sharing a lot of backstory here; it's presented as Thai sheng (pu'er-style tea) from old plant material.  Those links tell more of their story.

I loved the version last year for matching my own preference so closely.  The same is true of Aphiwat's version I've been discussing, and one from Moychay wasn't so different.  I think from repeatedly trying sheng versions from Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, and Vietnam the general style range has evolved to become my main tea preference, with the narrower set of aspects in those few the closest match.  

I expect this will be a little closer to conventional Yunnan versions than the one from Aphiwat was, but that material seemed to be quite good quality, so maybe not better in that regard.  His tea had an unusual plant or flower stem edge to it, a flavor that didn't pair with an astringency aspect as much as I would've expected, since the feel was rich but not rough or structured.  It also had amazing intensity, complexity, durability, and sweetness, along with substantial bitterness.  It's too hard to explain here but I don't think it's a type that's well-suited for aging, that it's perhaps as positive as it would ever be this year or next.  Since it's such a personal favorite while still young that's not as much of a limitation.

This will be related in flavor range, I expect, but without as much of that one unusual edge.  I would expect it to include less fruit range and more floral tones, based on last year's version, with bitterness level not so different, and feel different but in a way that's not simple to describe, more structured, fuller in feel.  Never mind all that; this will be about this tea, not comparison to others, but if it helps define an aspect or transition expectation I'll get into that.  

As to what comes before the brewed tea experience the appearance is just beautiful, as in the photos, and the smell is sweet, complex, fragrant, and floral.  This is pressed a bit tight; that adds a little challenge in separating out a bit to brew, more care in not breaking up leaves.  With a now more conventional loose pressing you can just push in the pick or knife from any direction and flake off a chunk of about the size you want.  It'll slow aging transition slightly too, but otherwise it makes no difference.  It's still much easier to separate off the tea than for older style factory cakes, more broken material pressed just as hard, which are looser and easier to access than iron cake versions, or typical tuochas. 

I'm trying this on day 4 out of 5 of a fast; I've not eaten in 3 1/2 days.  That won't change much.  It's generally better not to drink most of a liter of sheng on a completely empty stomach but it'll be alright.  I drank some salt water earlier, a sodium and potassium mix, which isn't nearly as good a stomach buffer as toast or cereal, but it will have to do.

Review:  

First infusion:  I let this brew about 15 seconds because I skipped a rinse step; that's a judgement call.  It would've infused better with a rinse, and I'd skip saying "this is still a bit light," but it is still throwing out the tea.  This will brew about 15 infusions, most likely, a half dozen more than I'll drink in a sitting, so that would've made sense.  It's still a bit light; I gave half to a nearby plant to continue on making better notes.  Of course it's as I already described it, sweet, floral, complex, seemingly well balanced.

Second infusion:  that's it!  Sweetness and flavor intensity pick way up; I can start brewing this faster and lighter.  A honey-like flavor note stands out; it's always nice when it works out like that.  There is good warmth to these flavor tones for being so young.  I would generally expect it to be a little more oxidized than is typical in that case, implied by the mix of colors in the dried leaves.  The darker yellow brewed liquid and mix of brown on the wet leaves would also more or less confirm that.  For a version intended for long aging that's probably more negative than positive, but if someone plans to drink this within the first 2 or 3 years it can be more positive than negative.  

The character right now is fantastic; no complaints.  Then it's complicated and hard to sort out how a mix of varying extra oxidation level works out, if this really will age well, even long term, because many of the leaves are as green as could be. 

Bitterness level is still considerable, but still in the middle of the scale in relation to typical Menghai versions.  Floral range seems to stand out, but there is plenty more going on with this.  The warm honey tone ties to mineral tones across a lighter and heavier scale, and to other warm flavor range that could be towards spice.  To me the main flavor range, which is complex, and hard to break apart, combines both floral and fruit range.  

It's almost a bit citrusy, or actually is, not in one distinct form (lemon, orange, tangerine), but I would expect that to evolve and seem to link to different range across infusions.  This is a lot like the version I really loved earlier this year (last year's tea, and I think most of a year of aging transition amounted to a lot more than it would've in a cooler and drier place, when I tried it in February or so).

I suspect that a lot of South East Asian teas are slightly more oxidized than Yunnan versions not just because they don't process them quickly enough, but because it's pretty warm and humid across a lot of the entire region (not so much at elevation in northern Laos and Vietnam, but maybe even there in comparison with a lot of Yunnan).  Everything changes quickly as a result; cereal can get stale still in the factory sealed packaging, and leaving partly brewed tea out overnight doesn't go as well as elsewhere.  A picked fresh leaf would oxidize a little pretty fast.

third infusion:  it's so good!  That one flavor input, like honey, is probably closer to how beeswax smells, warm, rich, and sweet.  A citrus edge warms up a little too, with other range I interpret as floral just as strong or stronger.  Feel and aftertaste work together to support a more complex experience, in this case in a very positive form.  It's rich and full, with a good bit of structure, and the bitter edge carries over to sweetness plus the other flavors trailing in aftertaste.  Sometimes that effect can be even stronger; there is plenty of flavor experience a minute after drinking this tea, but for some versions it really goes on and on, sometimes seemingly even stronger than the actual flavor.

I'm saying that the citrus is warm in tone, but this might cover both a warmer tangerine range and lighter lemon input.  It makes it come across as complex and satisfying, since that's only part of the range.  

The version from Aphiwat extended to ripe and sweet pineapple, related to a fresh fruit version that wouldn't be familiar to most people in the US.  Even if you try an exported fresh pineapple most plant types are sweet, citrusy, and intense but a little harsh, and other types here express a much warmer tone.  That's like a branded version "Maui Gold," I guess (which sounds like a weed strain).  Anyway this is different, more broad range citrus, honey and beeswax, and floral tones.  A vegetal input is harder to place, maybe like a bit of green wood, not dominant, but there in the mix.

fourth infusion:  I should've backed off my normal 8 gram or so proportion; without food in my stomach I might be able to drink a couple more rounds but will only get halfway through this infusion cycle, at best.  This tea will be great in the afternoon but for doing a relaxed day while fasting I don't need to get blasted on caffeine.  I have some errands to run; it'll help with that.

Intensity stands out in this experience (with the flavor set not transitioning quickly, so I won't add much about that).  I think that's part of what I like about sheng, what I'm acclimated to.  Probably if I would "get" the cha qi / body feel part more that would be intense too.  When fasting energy levels tend to go all over the place, and sitting in a dark room is enough to bring on a crash, while doing something outside can trigger the opposite, great physical and mental energy and clarity.

Finishing this cup is probably all I'll have for now.  My stomach still feels ok but the continual deep emptiness I've felt for days has shifted in form, warning me not to keep going.  I'm sweating in a different way.  I bet a couple of interesting late transitions would tell more of the story of this tea; maybe I can make notes over the next few hours as I get to those.

re-tasting two days later (I didn't make more notes):  this won't be round by round, but I will add some thoughts, about re-trying the tea when I'm back out of fasting (I finished 5 full days last evening; that went ok).  No change related to that factor, that I could tell.

I like the tea, in a style closer to conventional Yunnan versions than Aphiwat's.  Bitterness isn't so different, but feel might have just a little more feel structure, and give up a little for sweetness level.  Lighter mineral tones are stronger, which together with the feel makes it come across as a little drier.  It seems like unusual flavor range in Aphiwat's version is replaced by a more standard floral range in this.  

This tea might be better to drink a year or two later, to rest and settle a bit, and let the rough edges wear off, and flavor deepen.  I didn't buy that earler Wawee Tea sheng version this year until late January / early Feb. or so, coming up on a year after production, which is only three months from now, but drank more in March and April.  This character seems ok for longer aging too, drinking this as a 15 year old version, but I don't think Aphiwat's tea would have great potential for that kind of longevity.

They sent me some maocha from 2017, so 6 1/2 year old tea, and of course I can't assume that the starting point was quite similar, but it will inform part of how this might age.

Flavor list interpretation would always vary a good bit, so the comprehensive, round by round flavors list--mostly missing here--might not be so meaningful anyway.  To help make that point here are tasting notes from that friend that visited here, John Lim, for Aphiwat's sheng, which I've described as floral with some fruit, and a plant stem related bitterness:

Gushu material, viscous and mellow.

I get ginger , lemongrass and wildflowers. Relatively sweet as well.

Subsequent brews bring out its bitter nature as well.

This tea feels like life in the mountains. Filled with herbs, grass and wildflowers. Bitter sweet life experiences.

More poetic than my writing; nice!  Lemongrass makes sense, which I've interpreted differently, as citrus range or pineapple.  Floral we both agreed on (I just didn't narrow it further), and the plant-stem, slightly edgy input could be an interpretation of bitterness overlapping with herbal nature.  Herbs tend to not taste like plant stem, usually covering a warmer range, but I've described that warm rich tone as relating to honey, if I remember right, or maybe that was beeswax.  It seems to be about breaking down a very complex and broad range of flavors into sets that match foods, floral, or vegetal experiences, which themselves are often not one dimensional, so sort of equivalent sets can vary a lot.

Later I tried Aphiwat's tea brewed Western style and it did taste a lot more like ginger and lemongrass; it's odd how combining what would be a lot of Gongfu infusion range together can change things.  Or maybe it was all related to suggestion, expecting that, then noticing it?

Also if you brew any tea much lighter or stronger it will emphasize a different range, related to flavor and other aspects.  Judging from the look of John's brewing--a photo--he used about half the proportion of tea leaf, a more conservative and sensible 4 or 5 grams per 100 ml instead of 8 or so, which would make it much easier to dial in lighter infusions, probably using longer infusion times.

I've just screwed up brewing this tea in a way that highlights that, writing these second trial notes.  While typing I let a round brew too long (nearly 30 seconds?), and then will often brew a flash-infused round to mix with that, instead of diluting tea with water.  Tasting the stronger in comparison with the fast-brewed round they're completely different, and not just in terms of intensity, also differing flavor aspects come through.  The light one is too wispy to make it out clearly, but just a touch stronger would make the point better.  Mixing the two rounds lands closer to an optimum, in a form that's far different than both tried separately. 

Sweetness has been picking up in this tea, and bitterness easing off; this is what I really valued in the other version last year (this overall experience, not that particular transition pattern).  Still, if this rests for 6 more months--or a year or two--it will be that bit more approachable, requiring less dialing in for infusion process.  

I have a few cakes now around 4 years old that are coming out the other side of that somewhat young but more settled range, not getting better every year now, fading some but well short of the broader character transition onto being aged.  Essentially all of those I don't own enough of to make waiting out another decade of transition such an attractive prospect.  I'll probably work on finishing most of them, leaving only tea I bought enough extra to age-transition around to wait out that longer cycle.  I can't finish all the half-consumed cakes I own now in a few months, or even half a year; I mean I'll work towards that.

One last point comes to mind, that I've tried 10 year old dry stored teas that are less fermentation transitioned than teas tend to be here after 3 years.  All of these times and stages I'm citing depend on the particular storage input, in addition to the tea character starting point, which I did say a little about.

Is this tea as good as Aphiwat's, or better or worse?  Just different.  Maybe I prefer his a little more, but I think the opposite would be true trying both as two year old versions, and they might be pretty even next year.  Related to long term aging potential I expect this has much more.  All that is just guesses though.  I've tried a somewhat aged version from them before (I should link to that, right?), and I'll post another within another week or so.

my company for tasting again. two marks on her are actually heart shaped.

so green in the rainy season

the other garden

impressive, but spanning across a walkway.  since it's a Buddhist household he gets to use the space.

Forest origin Thai black tea; tea tasting while fasting

 

This tea is from Aphiwat, again, who I've been buying Thai sheng (pu'er-style tea) from lately.  He sent it with that tea to try (many thanks!).  I won't get into the natural growth / old plant theme here, but there are pictures of plants that are probably related in this earlier background post.

Some odd background for tasting context:  I'm part-way through a 5 day fast.  I've never tried to write review notes while fasting before.  Even drinking black tea may not work; all I've had is salt (potassium and sodium), a multivitamin, and magnesium and calcium supplement tablets today [at time of first draft, of course, not final editing, since I finished this later on].  I've not eaten food for awhile, for days, and have only drank limited tea and a tisane, only once for the last.

I don't know if my palate will be off or if low energy level and focus will be an issue.  Of course notes here will guess about that, and then I do try this tea again in a later summary at the end, along with a related version, and that different context did change things a little.  I wrote about what fasting is all about in a recent post, and how that went, and about combining fasting, running (really!), and meditation.

Review:

first infusion:  that's really unusual, heavy and deep in flavor.  Of course I'm wondering if my sense of taste isn't unusual too, if that's not contributing.  At a guess it's not, but there's no way to test that [at that time; trying it later would be an option, and I did].  

It's hard to place in relation to other black teas I've tried.  I suppose it seems closest to Yunnan style, Dian Hong, but it might borrow a little from better orthodox Assam style range too [later I switch that around; it's more like orthodox Assam, but it seems reasonable to leave early mistakes in interpretation in this].  Deep mineral tones ground it all, and rich earthy character is another base.  Fruit is included, along the dried cherry range.  Usually there's a higher end, lighter tone joining all that, and sweetness seeming to link to some range, but this seems to be medium in sweetness level, and the depth, richness, and heavier flavors stand out.  

That's the part that reminds me of Assam, I think, that those don't tend to be sweet either, and not necessarily light in aspect range.  One part of this is even similar to the malt in Assam, a soft and rich version of it.  Complexity spans a broader range than many better Assam versions might, even for it missing a higher tone range; there is a lot going on.  Part of the depth reminds me a little of the roasted sweet potato range in Dian Hong too.  This is really something.  

Dian Hong often don't exhibit this sort of intensity, I think in part because producers are using summer material to make them, in between the more favorable spring and autumn harvest leaves, which are used to make sheng pu'er.  Even subtle Dian Hong can still be great though, because the range present can be all positive, sweetness can be favorable, and mineral and deep flavor tones can make up for generally lower intensity.  Feel is often rich.  Of course there would be other kinds of versions, that are off the scale intense; I probably keep trying more subtle versions for not being willing to spend a lot on it.

In tasting the last of this round it seems most like cocoa to me (or cacao, the ingredient used to make that).  I bet this is the kind of tea that seems to express a completely different flavor range brewed light versus heavy, still an overlapping set, but quite different.  I'll do a light round to check on that.

second infusion:  brewed fast (maybe just under 10 seconds) the intensity is still ok but it is quite different, narrower in range.  A little longer would be more optimum.  That is such an unusual flavor set, more of the dried cherry fruit range, roasted sweet potato range, or maybe closer to butternut squash, warmer tones, and mineral base, with some malt.  

There's a chance that this is higher in sweetness level than I'm commenting and that my body is desperately seeking carbohydrates, and realizes that there is none of that in this, so other compounds that I usually identify as sweet may be getting set aside as irrelevant (in my perception).  Feel is good in this, nice and full, and even brewed quite light aftertaste carries over.

It's good tea, of course, but it would take some unpacking to say how good.  In terms of an objective quality level it's pretty far up the scale, as distinctiveness, refinement, complexity, and intensity goes, and what I see as quality markers like fullness of feel and aftertaste.  But what about match to my subjective preferences?  I said in a recent Assam review that I love Dian Hong more, even though the black tea I was reviewing was clearly about as good as a version was going to be, just in that other range, which isn't completely unrelated, as Assamica based teas from different areas.  

Most versions one would find wouldn't be nearly this good (of Dian Hong, or of any tea type, really), as quality level alone goes, so this would probably surpass most Dian Hong just for being better tea.  But I might like a version that's not as good just as much, if the aspect range was exactly what I like most.  More cacao and sweetness, drop malt out, add more roasted yam and sweet potato base, even if another version was slightly thinner and less complex, I mean.  This is quite good though; it seems like splitting hairs.  Compared to the two ITeaWorld black teas I reviewed a month or so ago this is almost certainly just better in quality; preferred style range doesn't matter as much when a tea version is clearly significantly higher in quality level.

third infusion:  of course it's even better brewed to a more optimum infusion strength, at just over 15 seconds at a high proportion (maybe 7 or 8 grams per 100 ml gaiwan).  Cacao is stronger, and the malt note decreases; that's nice.  I think people accustomed to drinking broken leaf or CTC Assam tin versions might be thinking of a dry, almost harsh malt tone that seems to adjoin astringency in those, but it's not that.  It's not exactly malted-milk ball or Ovaltine range either, but much closer to that.  In between Ovaltine and cedar wood tone, I guess.

I think my palate is a little affected, related to being so far into not eating, several days.  Or maybe it's the diet of mostly salt water?  I'm not sure that I can perceive sweetness in a normal way just now.  The basic flavor tones I think I am reading in a similar way.  It seems like my body is judging flavor input mostly related to caloric value at this point, and feels a little let down.  A teaspoon of sugar would taste amazing compared to this, or a handful of nuts, milk, anything contributing sustenance.  

My body needs to let that drop, because there's two more days left in this five day fast.  My mind was mostly at peace with it from day one, which usually isn't how that goes, but my body is still feeling it.  Once I get ketogenic energy use normalized a little more, burning my own body fat, it might all feel more natural.  3 1/2 days into not eating, or consuming any calories, is a strange place to be.

fourth infusion:  to me this just keeps improving; that is nice.  I could push it a little harder since the intense mineral and earthier range base is fading, but it has good depth and intensity as it is (again brewed for just over 15 seconds).  Splitting the flavors into a list, as I did, is a little tricky, because it all integrates really well.  

Talking about transition changes now would be about the proportion of the earlier set changing.  The light dryness that seems to connect with malt flavor tone keeps fading, and rich cacao and dried fruit tone picks up.  Calling that feel dryness is surely misleading; only someone familiar with that feel input from tasting dozens of similar teas would make that particular connection.  It mostly comes across as rich in feel.

I wonder why this includes a malt tone, as Assams do even more, but Dian Hong tend to not, at all?  Would that be from plant type input, soil differences (terroir), or growing area temperature?  It could be any one of those, or a combined output of all three.  From smelling the dry leaves you only get rich sweetness, including the cacao range, and some fruit.  There is a chance that my interpretation of the flavor profile would shift if I perceived sweetness in a more normal way, if I wasn't fasting.  That's not intuitively how that would work but we seem to key in on sets of related aspects when we taste tea.  A minor flaw can really shift how we interpret other aspects, or a gap related to what we expect also can.  

Varying interpretation of aspects is possible at this stage; it may not be just a different proportion of the earlier set, so that may be wrong.  Tisane-like aspects pick up, mild wood tone, or sassafras root, along that line.  Dried fruit always was subtle enough that dried cherry was partly a place-holder for what is hard to clearly identify, and supporting roasted sweet potato range was a little clearer, and cacao more so.  

Aphiwat may send a different type of black tea to try and I could compare this when I'm eating again, related to me ordering extra sheng to send to a friend (for trade for tea; I'm not that nice).  I wish my budget allowed for me to be, to buy and give away tea, but I've not posted about a standard $150 or more tea order for a year and a half for a reason.  It's expensive to live in Hawaii part time.

fifth infusion:  perhaps fading a little at this point, but a catchy dried fruit tone picks up.  It's still not pronounced enough to be easy to identify, but I think it's more like dried longan or dried Chinese date, jujube, than dried dark cherry, the initial flavor.  Malt has really dropped out and a spice-like range now covers that warm tone, or maybe it's just a very aromatic version of roasted sweet potato, towards root spice.  Probably pushing this tea would provide a few more quite positive rounds, using full boiling point water and 30+ second infusions.  I'll test that.

One earlier concern I had was drinking black tea on an empty stomach, a very empty stomach.  It hasn't been a problem.  I think more broken leaf, lower quality black tea would be more of an issue, or maybe just really intense whole-leaf Assam.  The astringent feel in your mouth seems to match up with what is going to happen to your stomach, which can easily be offset by eating foods with complex carbs and fat in them.

sixth infusion:  of course intensity rebounds brewed a little longer.  That fruit input now reminds me of teaberry, a little towards a berry, mint, and tisane set, in a very catchy range.  It's possible that someone might like this sixth infusion more than all the prior ones, which is not how infusion transitions tend to go.  Maybe I do.  I don't hate malt as an input but swapping that out for berry is nice, and warm underlying mineral input bumped back up from adding a bit of infusion time (maybe 40 seconds).  

I suppose this is what Gongfu brewing is all about, revealing more that a tea can offer than having it brew out in two mixed together Western rounds.  Even if it's ever so slightly catchier that's enough tasting notes, and enough writing for me.

Speed round review; comparing two batches from Aphiwat (later)

He did send a second version to try from a different batch, along with ordering more sheng.  They have numbers but it seems like those are batch numbers, and I know of no other differences.  Part of reviewing these is to see if my sense of taste is different than it was back during that fast.  I don't remember that I've ever directly compared two small batch versions from the same production season and producer before.  Trying final production versions from one flush from a producer is something else, similar, but those could've been blends of other small batches.

The first infusion I brewed for awhile, nearly 30 seconds, to skip the part about not being able to taste them.

"21" version, the one I already reviewed, first infusion:  it's pretty much how I remember it from not so many days ago, rich, with a touch of dryness and astringency edge, but far from astringent.  Flavors are positive, with warm and rich malt standing out, mineral base, good sweetness (maybe that is different), and warm flavors towards fruit tones, maybe even trailing over to sun-dried tomato range (so umami, sort of, but nothing at all like in Japanese green tea).  I think it balances better without my palate being a little roughed up from not eating, but I'm picking up similar flavor tones.

"04" version:  similar but different.  It might be a little less full, with less sweetness and fruit.  The malt tone is similar, but feel could be a little softer.  There's plenty of a savory edge to this too, maybe even more so, or it could just be that it stands out more for the fruit tones being miler.  

It looks to contain less bud content, as if it's a different kind of material, presumably from a different harvest time period.  From a more northern source it might make sense to say it could be from later in the growing season, not as early a spring production, but spring is a strange concept here in Thailand, without any winter to define it on the one side.  

We have a hot season, a rainy season, and cool season, and it's really hot and humid the whole time.  Plants don't experience one start and end of a growing season, at least not in our garden in Bangkok.  Fruit develops and ripens per whatever timetable that fruit plant is on, I think with a lot peaking in August or so.  That is when the rainy season goes from a little rainy to a monsoon range, which it's in now, months after the main April and May hot season peak.  Further off topic, I've been the gardener at home lately, for being the only person there, and I "brewed" fallen leaves to make a variation of tisane for the plants again.  It's like a stand-in for compost mulch, I guess.

21 version, 2nd round:  I should probably be trying one of these in comparison with that really good orthodox Assam Maddhurjya sent me a month or two ago; it seems pretty close in style.

If you look for it that warm honey sweetness tone from the sheng is present in this tea too; it's very catchy.  Tasting while fasting did throw off what I would normally interpret as sweetness.  Sweetness doesn't relate to a carbohydrate input in this sense, of course, it's about other compounds coming across in a comparable way (amino acids, maybe?).  The strength of this tea is how well it all balances; it makes it harder to do a flavor-list style review breakdown, but there's a lot going on that integrates well.  

The general list is what I've already covered (malt, mineral base, fruit, touch of honey, maybe a little spice or aromatic wood tone beyond all that).

04 version:  less complex, less sweet and fruity, with more of a neutral wood-tone range.  It's still quite good, but the other being just slightly better--more intense and complex--makes it seem more limited.  It still has a soft, rich feel but with less structure to it.  It seems odd saying either tea is astringent given how far on the opposite extreme this is from broken leaf black tea.  

Sweetness still integrates well with the rest in this, and again I notice less of a gap related to how my carbohydrate starved sense of taste mapped out the other version just days ago.  Both of these would be fantastic as daily drinkers, for tea consumed with food, both good enough to appreciate alone, just focusing on the tea. 

Conclusions:

Just fantastic!  Eventually I will retry these and Maddhurjya's orthodox Assam enough to get a feel for how similar or different they really are, which I'll probably not mention here, since all this went long anyway.  

I just organized a really nice tasting outing at a local Chinatown shop, Sen Xing Fa, with most credit to that being amazing due to them, for managing and providing it all.  If I do get around to holding another event where I'm sharing more teas myself I should let others try one of these versions.

A favorite Thai sheng ("pu'er") from Aphiwat

Perfect timing, reviewing a Thai sheng version just after discussing those in relation to sharing one in a Chinatown tasting session and post.  I just bought this.  Last year I tried three exceptional versions of Thai sheng (pu'er-like tea) from Aphiwat, this producer, and from Wawee Tea and Moychay, and his may have been my favorite.  That last post goes into all that, with vendor contacts, and earlier review citations.

For completeness this is Aphiwat's FB profile link and this is his FB business page, and this post shows pictures of where he lives, and the clothing style that's typically worn by his local indigenous group.  His earlier description of their name was interesting:

We are not Archer Arkhar. The real name is Aownye Gaokhue, or Aownyer Kokhue.  But other people call us Archer Arkha.

Aphiwat

that traditional clothing (photo provided by Aphiwat, for an earlier post)

Review:

editing notes, second round trial input:  I tried this again later, after earlier on--here--struggling to place a fruit aspect.  It's like fresh pineapple.

How could I miss that, and how could sheng taste like pineapple?  I think it would be natural for someone else to interpret it as a lighter lemon citrus note, with other fruit included, and I did compare it to other tropical fruit in the first review.  

Note that I mean fresh pineapple, which is nothing like the canned version.  There are lots of versions of pineapple, and this related flavor is in a rich and warm but also bright range.  Onto the original review.

first infusion:  I think maybe this is just a little better than last year's!  It's absurd how pleasant this tea is.  To be sure some of that is from me growing to love Thai sheng style and aspects more and more over the last two years.  

Floral tone is the main input, rich and sweet, and complex.  It's sweet and intense like lavender, but lighter in tone, maybe most similar to the flowering tropical vines by our house.

There is some bitterness, yet to evolve much, and some other vegetal flavor range, close to flower stem.  There's a catchy warm tone, maybe not so far off honey sweetness input, of course linking to the high level of sweetness, and I think mineral supports the rest, giving it complexity.  

That honey, warm tone, and floral range might remind me of sunflower, or beeswax, maybe also matching some tropical fruit.  

second infusion:  beeswax seems an even closer match this round.  Lots of floral range too, or maybe that's as naturally interpreted as fruit.  

Bitterness is picking up with intensity (although to be clear this had been at a good intensity level last round, and it's just that much stronger for brewing for another 10 second round this time), but it's not bitter at all for young sheng.  Sometimes that's a sign that the tea was oxidized in processing, swapping out some bitterness input for sweetness and warmer tone, but I'm not so sure about this.  

If this had oxidized more than for standard Yunnan sheng processing that would cost it for long-term aging potential.  To me this tea shouldn't be aged anyway, because it's fantastic now, and it would be a stretch to guess that it might get better.  

The sweetness, rich warmth, high level of complex floral and fruit input, and balanced, complementary vegetal range that makes this work as well as it does.  I can't say for sure that this is better than last year, but maybe just a little.  

third infusion:  the rich feel keeps ramping up along with the depth, complexity, and intensity.  Looking closer at the leaves there is minor color variation to them.  It's possible that they've maxed out complexity by inconsistently processing these leaves, with some just a bit more oxidized than others, or maybe some heated a little more, drawing out more fragrance towards green tea character.  It's a happy accident if so; it's great.

Aftertaste experience is really nice in this too, the way sweetness carries over, and the mild bitter edge, floral tone, even the rich feel, to some extent.  A minute later it's still trailing off, and two minutes on it's more faint but not gone.  For sure some Yunnan versions express even crazier degrees of aftertaste experience, but that does add depth.  The most pleasant part of the experience is the initial taste, where you just go "wow!" every round.

fourth infusion:  the floral and fruit intensity is crazy.  I think it could be that fruit even more of an input than floral range, depending on interpretation, really a complex set of aspects.  This might be closest to fresh lychee in flavor, although that can include a mild citrus and spice range aspect that this doesn't, so it's just the light but rich fruit part of that.  It's not far off rambutan either.  

That warmth, which I've said is related to either honey or rich floral tone, is also similar to dried longan.  Dried longan is very pleasant, along the line of dried date but not earthy, maybe a little towards blueberry, or closest to Chinese date (jujube).

fifth infusion:  a flavor list doesn't do justice to how complex, integrated, and intense this is.  Bitterness joining the rest is pleasant at this moderate level.  People link that to a hui gan theme, a bitterness experience that changes to sweetness, sometimes associated with specific mouthfeel forms, but both inputs are there in that first wave of flavor, and both carry over afterwards. 

leaf color variation is even clearer in later rounds

sixth infusion:  that beeswax flavor input also makes this very catchy, along with all the rest being intense and well-balanced.  With twice the level of bitterness I would still love this tea, but it would fall within a more conventional sheng experience range.  The rest shines much more for balancing in this way, the sweetness and other intensity.  

Of course this tea is far from finished; it brewed well over a dozen rounds, but the notes start to repeat, and the write-up runs too long.  This didn't transition to be a lot different in later rounds.

Conclusion

I think I love this tea much more than most would because it's such a good match to my personal preferences.  I love Thai versions of sheng, the typical flavor set and feel of them, and this may be my favorite example so far.  And one of my favorite teas I've tried in general; it's really something.  

The 2022 version had a potential problem in not being as fully dried as cakes tend to be, and it was pressed a little tight, and this version corrects all that.  It was easy to get a 7 or so gram flake to peel off one side with almost no effort.  Since the leaf layering pattern is a little different for this being hand-pressed one might need to adjust a conventional tea-pick or knife cake / bing separation approach, but after that it's easily accessible.

Tea meetup at a Bangkok Chinatown shop, Jip Eu

 

I've let the subject of tea tastings go for quite awhile, aside from holding one in Honolulu this year.  But a Bankgok Tea Tasting theme Facebook group I started has seen more members join this year than ever before, so it made sense to try to meet some of them.  I was going to my favorite Bangkok Chinatown shop to replace an aged sheng cake (Xiaguan) anyway, so I announced the visit as a meetup in that group.

Four others met with me for a pleasant tasting session there; their participation made the event work.  Writing about it is in part about communicating more to them about what we tried, what the teas were, and leads for buying similar teas.  Of course my main thanks go to Kittichai and his wife, the Jip Eu shop owners, for serving as the actual hosts; he was kind enough to share samples of several teas for us, and to keep pouring rounds for two hours.  For me it's always like visiting an aunt and uncle there, which makes buying good tea at great value all the more pleasant.

Conversation points

This is mainly about the teas, adding more about what they are, and reference links, but I wanted to also pass on the feel of discussion, even though I'll cite very little of it.  It's always interesting starting out with what people already like and experience of teas.  A good lead on visiting shops in Little India came up, but I've lost track of those details; maybe at the very back of Phahurat Market?  There's more on that area here.

Brief discussion of willow herb came up, aka Ivan Chay, a rare tisane type that can be oxidized.  I've tried some really nice versions of those, mostly from Moychay, and other novel and pleasant pressed mixed tisane bars.  It would be more odd that willow herb and tisane blends never caught on if decent tea wasn't also slow to gain acceptance.

From there lots of short tangents related to the teas we tried came up, so I'll skip on to that.

What we tried

2006 CNNP (/ Zhongcha) 8001 sheng pu'er:  later I was thinking about how the tasting theme went from heavy to light and back to heavy, kind of unusual.  I think maybe we had stopped by in the middle of two others trying this aged sheng pu'er, which is characteristic for one style (a bit heavy, earthy, slightly rough-edged for being this far through fermentation, definitely intense).  

Readers may think back to trying 17 year old sheng pu'er versions that seemed pretty fresh to them, still including bitterness, not fully transitioning from earlier slightly harsh range onto milder earthiness.  Storage input plays a big role, along with the initial starting point; Bangkok is as hot and humid as anywhere, pretty close to Malaysian storage.  It's not exactly like 20+ years in Hong Kong or Taiwan, but at least fermentation level is equivalent to that.  

I own part of a cake of this tea, reviewed here.  Note that I reviewed that 4 years ago, when it was 13 years old; those extra years of transition since have made a lot of difference.  Of the three more-aged versions--leaving out a Dayi purple label version in this discussion--I might like the CNNP the least, and see it as least refined, with heavy earth aspects that can come across as rough edges.  I've tried it in the last month or so, part of a normal routine of checking in, and it's good, but the other two I like better.  I have a spare cake of that Dayi sheng (reviewed here in 2020; it's better now too), but the Xiaguan runs a bit low.

silver needle style tea, from Fuding:  it came up that the range was a bit heavy, and Kittichai was nice to help switch theme back to the opposite extreme, brewing a pleasant silver needle version.  I didn't catch much for details; maybe this was partly aged, or maybe not.  My guess is that a slightly higher degree of initial oxidation than might be typical for the type added depth and heavier flavors, but both inputs (that and aging) could lead there, probably in slightly different forms.  It was really nice.  

It's hard to do a flavor-list review here by memory; plenty of mineral base stood out, it seemed quite floral, and there was at least one more aspect in there.  We weren't discussing teas in tea-tasting form, offering rounds of input about flavors and other experience, although more of that came up related to another version.

2022 Thai sheng (pu'er-like tea):  I brought some newish Thai sheng (not pu'er, to most, since that's a Yunnan-restricted designation), it seemed like a good time to try that, moving on to heavier but not exactly heavy range.  That shop specializes in Wuyi Yancha (Fujian rock oolong), and Kittichai has family roots in Wuyishan and Anxi, so trying Tie Guan Yin would also make sense.  We just didn't get to either.  To me Tie Guan Yin isn't the most interesting range, even though it can be pleasant, and it takes a lot of doing to get far with Wuyi Yancha, since you need prior exposure to place any given version, and to see how closely it matches your preference related to all the rest.  True of lots of tea types, I suppose, but with sheng my personal favorite we went ahead and tried a Thai version.

It was nice, fresh and sweet, intense, of course including plenty of bitterness.  There is a characteristic flavor range Thai sheng tends to cover, which I'd mostly describe as floral, but it seems possible that I'm missing one or two aspect descriptions that really pegs it.  I cover the source and reference a review in a later part about vendor background.  

It was fairly well received; people are often exposed mainly to young factory sheng versions instead, which can be a little more undrinkable.  Or to moderately aged versions, not onto optimum transition level yet, or to aged versions that don't express the full potential of the type range.  I suppose the CNNP version might've been guilty of that, but style and aspects relate to personal preference, and lots of aged sheng isn't "refined."

2006 Xiaguan 8653 sheng pu'er (full size cake):  this is what I was there to buy, and Kittichai offered us some to try.  I thought it was good.  It was better received by everyone joining.  To me it tasted a bit like aged leather, but another participant added that it covers a lot of the same scent range from smelling cigars in cedar storage, both the aromatic wood smell and the tobacco, which smells nothing like a burning cigar while in storage.  That really is it.  

I had tried the tea last about 3 days ago (after initially reviewing it last year), and it's much more refined than it had been just 6 months ago.  It has turned a corner in the aging cycle.  I bet in about 2 more years it will be really special, so that I should probably be buying a few of these, but my budget is fairly locked down these days, with the moving back and forth between Bangkok and Honolulu.

after a year more than half is gone; I'm drinking more than just to check on it

Vendor references

I wanted to add a few vendor references before this ran too long, related to what we tried.  Of course Jip Eu themselves are a great reference; all but one of those teas is from there.

Qing Fu Cha:  the owner of this online business, selling Thai sheng and Taiwanese oolong, joined with us.  I've tried some of their Thai sheng before (reviewed here) and it was quite nice, although I'll also mention other fantastic options for other versions.  Their FB page is here, and it's probably possible to find their teas in an online outlet shop, which Google search would identify if so.

Aphiwat:  a small local tea producer, selling Thai sheng, the source for that tea I brought (reviewed here last year, compared to one from Vietnam and to a version from Moychay).  I just ordered some from him today, which I suppose is tea blogger code for either that source's tea completely matched my preference or quality and value makes lots of sense, especially when I'm also listing other good source options here.  

An earlier review of a pressed cake version tells that story.  If I could live on only one tea version right now it would his, or Wawee Tea's.  I drank a 150 gram small cake in that first two-month stay in Honolulu, when my kids first started school there, and repeated that with another Thai tea I mention next on the next stay.

Wawee Tea:  a well-respected Thai sheng producer, who I wrote about here.  I've liked different things I tried from them, but one particular new version last year I couldn't stop myself from all but finishing in short order, almost a whole cake's worth in under two months.  

Mind you new sheng or the Thai sheng profile range isn't for everyone; Kittichai, the owner of Jip Eu, kind of gets it but doesn't love it like I do.  I don't think most versions are suitable for aging, and they would be fine, and a little different, a year or two later, but it's as well to burn straight through them.  You absolutely have to be ok with bitterness mixed with sweetness, and I definitely wasn't for the first half dozen years of trying sheng versions over and over.  Then it clicked.  I don't think there's any need to rush that, to see it as some higher form of preference; if you like it then you like it, and it's fine if you don't.

two of the teas I'm describing, compared with one from Vietnam

Moychay's Thai forest-origin initiative:  I might as well add a third exceptional source, related to Thai sheng I absolutely loved last year, this one, with more background on the source here.  It's possible that it's not quite as close a match to my preference as the other two versions, but in a way that's not fair, given that it was their initial production of the type, past early trials (or I suppose this maocha version was, but they're from about the same time).  

I bet they're right there with the other two producers already.  Wawee Tea has been a producer for decades, I think, and there are reviews in this blog of Aphiwat's teas from 2019.  My guess is that material quality is covered in their case too, that terroir and plant-type issues are dialed in.  All three versions were so similar, in such a narrow related style range, that it would take someone with plenty of exposure to notice differences and have a preference.  

those three teas

One thing I want to repeat to make it crystal clear:  the style of all three matches my own main preference; I don't mean to imply that these are better than teas from elsewhere, especially Yunnan, or even from Myanmar, Laos, and Vietnam, for that matter.  

Of course versions from the most valued narrow origin areas in Yunnan are superior in a few different ways, beyond better aging potential.  But if your preference matches mine something will really click when you first try a really good example, and your whole tea preference will shift a little.  If it's a first encounter with a tea with bitterness as a main aspect that probably won't happen, which is fine.

That Xiaguan cake must have been relatively undrinkable 17 years ago, when first produced.  Some other sheng versions hit an atypical fermentation transition "sweet spot" in the middle instead, softening and gaining depth without needing that decade and a half to be approachable.  But these two polar opposites seem the norm, to me, that sheng is often best within 2 years of being produced, or even right away, or only after nearly 20 years of very appropriate storage conditions input, or longer.  It was nice that we could experience that much of that range in just three versions in this outing.