In that recent Chinatown shop visit tasting outing, at Sen Xing Fa, I bought a Dayi 8582 sheng cake. It seemed a little odd buying something basic and already known, after trying a dozen other unusual or version-specific teas that day, but I had meant to buy this cake for some time. It's a gap in what I've experienced and what I own, as I see it. I'd even meant to buy this exact same cake at that shop, I think 3 years ago on a visit there, but had to cut that day short because of my wife's pressing next demands, and forgot to get back to it.
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that could be the same tea in the center, from 2017 |
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at that recent tasting; Mr. Tian is all grown up now |
The 7542 is from 2014 and this 8582 from 2016, so both year and age-transition level vary. The 7542 I've owned for awhile, bought to try as it aged over time. It's relatively senseless to own only one such cake, since one could easily keep trying it every other year and then notice they love it most 20 years old, when it's half gone from all the tasting. Even if you only tried it a half dozen times in a dozen years removing 50 or so grams from a 357 gram cake is a lot. Per some classic old Tea Addict's Journal (blog) advice "a cake is a sample," or close to that. I think it might've been followed with a tong being a sample, a set of 7 cakes, but that could be partly a joke, since 2 1/2 kg of tea is a bit.
The first question that arises is whether or not this is real. I think it probably is, even without trying it, but even after trying it I wouldn't be sure. These tea versions aren't so expensive, although 7542 kind of is now, after yet another spike in collector holding made even brand new versions more costly. It would be worthwhile for someone to counterfeit the teas though, even if they only sell for $30, since finding $10 source cakes would be simple enough in China, or for even less, so it would be down to forging packaging. I won't focus on that much here; I'll offer my impressions, and bring it up again, but this isn't about me confirming or rejecting that determination.
I'm trying the tea to set up a baseline of how it transitions over time. I can't go back and try how the version was in 2016, 7 years ago, but I can try it now, and compare that to a more fully aged version in another 7 years. 20 years is probably a standard age-transition level for cakes like these, but the pace of changes varies with storage conditions, and the hot and humid climate in Bangkok rushes it.
That's not necessarily optimum, but what is ideal would vary by starting point, the aspects of the original material, and would vary quite a bit with personal preference. If someone likes heavier, deeper, danker aged flavors in sheng, and the starting point was less approachable, very intense, bitter, and astringent, then hot and humid storage could be ideal. Dry storage preserves initial character better, not changing it as much as one might expect over a decade, and then somewhere in the middle most people might see as an optimum, conditions more like in Taiwan or Hong Kong. I'm not put off by the heavier flavor range hot and humid conditions here impart, with 12 to 15 years being more like 20 in a drier place for general transition level, but I'm claiming that it's somewhat optimum either. It just depends.
Note that I don't know where these were stored, beyond the 7542 being a cake I've held onto for the past half dozen or so years. Either could have easily spent some time in China, changing things. It seems likely this 8582 cake was stored right beside where we were tasting teas in that shop, which isn't the worst case for conditions, but probably not ideal either. I'll add more about that at the end.
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a bit darkened already, especially for being 7 years old |
On to tasting then. Tasting process will be fairly standard, using a rinse, water not far off boiling (local Bangkok tap water from a filtration and heating system, so not at full boiling), brewing about 7 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan (which I didn't weigh), using an initial discarded rinse.
Review:
8582: interesting! It's definitely in those in-between years when it's less natural to experience it, at only 7 years old not really showing the other aged side past that as clearly. Heavy flavors are pleasant (to me), tons of warm mineral, and parts towards wood or leather. It seems like a floral range tone still shines through, and another closer to mineral is odd, a little towards soap, but not in an awful sense.
In inexpensive, poor quality teas there's a characteristic thinness that seems to often occur, a gap in fullness of feel, even if flavor intensity can be fine, and this isn't like that, it has good body to it. Astringency level is nowhere near an optimum for this being at a point in aging where it's not normal to drink it, but the edge and structure that's there should help the tea evolve positively without fading. For aftertaste a heavy mineral taste lingers long on my tongue; that should be even more positive as it softens and changes form over time.
7542: this may be considerably more age-transitioned, even though it's just 2 years older (9 years old now). It brews a lot darker, and the feel has changed (not that they had to be so similar initially, given they're not the same recipe / version, but I mean the general range). It's picking up a deep and heavy basement sort of tone, which is quite positive to some and off-putting for others. It's also too early to judge this, since it will mellow quite a bit and lose a lot of edge to a transition process. It will only really settle into being more fully aged after 15 years, even in Bangkok.
This may be brewing faster, related to being more fermented, in the same way more oxidized black teas brew out much faster than lighter oxidation level black teas tend to. Oxidation and fermentation transition are two different things, even though to some extent the second may partly include some input from the first, per some people's input, but this comment is only about how fast teas tend to brew. That doesn't matter much in application; it's easy to give a round extra seconds to adjust for it, or to shift timing a little between two versions when comparison brewing, which I probably won't do.
Flavors are interesting in this, spanning rich wood tones, heavy leather range, and tisane range, mild root spice. That would all shift a lot over a half dozen more years, and I'm not sure it makes so much difference where a version in the middle happened to be at 7 versus 9 years. I could swear that I'm feeling these teas already, before finishing the first two rounds. I'll need to let them brew a little faster next round for a different reason, to keep it in a more drinkable range for tasting. I drank quite a bit of water between rounds to reset my palate and it still tastes sweet, with some tea flavor, quite a number of drinks in. These teas are intense.
8582 2nd infusion: this is definitely way behind the other for transition level, and seemingly less intense. People speak of sheng going through a quieter phase changing from younger to more aged character but I would expect this to be at the end of the earlier stage yet instead, not there. It has reasonably strong flavor range, good depth, and especially interesting aftertaste range, seemingly almost as strong as the flavor while drinking it. The other just packs a really hard punch. I'll skip describing another flavor list until next round.
7542: this is more age-transitioned, it seems, but bitterness is also more intense, which is odd. Astringency too; the feel structure of this is more challenging than positive, really. It needs more time, which always was the theme, experiencing the middle range. Aftertaste experience for this one is so heavy on minerals it's almost metallic.
If I brew 12 to 13 small cups of these that will make 24 or more in total; way too much. I might not make it through too many for the review and notes part of this and try again after lunch.
Oddly I like the novelty of experience of trying out sheng that's not ready yet; from time to time I'll drink a middle-years Xiaguan and Dayi Ji Ji tuocha tea like that. I have a dozen such tuos at home, almost none compared to people who collect in significant volume, but a start for people accustomed to not owning much tea. I drink a lot more young sheng that's best drank young now.
At the end of this second round I'm thinking I might only make it through 3. I ate right before this too, oatmeal with banana, so it's odd that it's hitting me this hard.
8582, 3rd round: mild wood or tisane range picks up, with heavier tones and mineral fading some. Intensity isn't what I expected from this, but it shouldn't be this promising if it's fake tea. Maybe it is in a quieter phase just now. I'm brewing these relatively quickly, keeping them light, but I mean after factoring that in. I'll try out infusing them for slightly longer next round but these can be way too strong brewed for even moderate timing, so not for very long.
7542: this is more intense by a good bit, with a lot of heavier flavors mixing with lighter range. It's not balanced, related to being in an awkward place in transitioning, but that's normal. I would've expected more of that "greener" range and astringency edge, that is present in this, to stand out in the other version than is occurring.
This reminds me a little of trying a Dayi purple label version some years back, from 2004, some years back, projecting ahead to how all the rough edges, heavy and complex flavors, and overall intensity would settle out. It has now; at 19 years old (or so) it's in a better place, but a few more will really finish off that process. There was some uncertainty if that was a variation of a 7542 recipe or not that I never really settled; at least one online reference referred to multiple versions, including one with a label like that, relating to that formula and type, but it still never seemed clear. I'm pretty sure that was from Taetea / Dayi, that it wasn't an early version of a counterfeit.
I'll try one more round and take a break; it's enough.
8582 4th infusion: to me this is pleasant, and being slightly more subtle (less complex and intense) than the other isn't so bad. It has good depth to it, and there is flavor range. Tobacco really picked up this round. Not a warm sweetness like pipe tobacco, that's more perfume-like and aromatic, or cedar wood range spicy cigar tobacco, this is closer to how a Camel cigarette smells (not when burning).
Sweetness level is ok, just a bit overtaken by deeper mineral and other range that comes across as wood or leather. The wood tone includes a greener edge, part that's tied back to younger range character a lot more than what should transition in over the next decade.
7542: it's further along, but this also includes a mix of heavier mineral base, warm tones, basement-aroma depth, and greener range, again back towards green wood. I would imagine it might be 3 more years of transition before these are more fully along, and another comparison with these notes might make sense.
Somehow those 10 or so year old tuochas make more sense to me, even though per any standard preference they're not ready yet either (9 years old now, 2012, the version I own most of, reviewed here along with 2014 and 2015 Dayi Jia Ji tuochas 4 years ago, as another interim-transition review). Looking at that earlier review "green wood" comes up a lot, just as now.
Conclusions:
The point here never was to fill in a long flavor list, the main theme for a lot of reviews, more just to compare this new-to-me 8582 to the 7542 I had already owned. It's fine; it will be nice to see how it changes over time. For being this promising I should probably buy another.
The effect of these sheng surprised me a little. I drink forest-origin young sheng all the time now, and it's intense, but these really have me buzzing. In part that's actually a little negative; along with a stoney sort of rush my head feels a little off. I've never been sensitive enough to "cha qi" to feel overly impacted by it, beyond some exceptionally intense sheng versions triggering that. It seems like part of that change is probably from me, not the teas. No need to overthink it; I'll take a long break and try a few more rounds after lunch.
The one other surprise was the 8582 giving up so much intensity to the other version. They're in completely different places in age-transitioning so it's hard to separate that from inherent character and fully-aged potential. Both should be fine for moving through that process as early as in another half-dozen years, with the transition rate speeded up here in Bangkok.
I didn't get far with speculation here that it might not be "real." I would guess that it is what it's presented as. Why would it give up some intensity to the other tea version then, even though for being two years younger it might be more intense, just not a pleasant related to having less time to transition? Storage conditions may not have been ideal.
Taking this for what it's worth, not expert opinion, just somewhat informed discussion, humidity, temperature, and degree of air contact are main storage conditions inputs. Storage in a shop with AC running isn't ideal, even in a really humid place like Bangkok. If they kept that place as cold as the malls here it would be much cooler and drier, and worse, but still air conditioning units pull moisture out of the air.
Daily temperature swings probably aren't necessarily ideal (natural conditions in Bangkok), but I'm really talking here more about degree of air contact than those other two factors. This was sold in a thick ziplock style bag, which is decent, but those breath an awful lot. The tea could've been cycling a trace amount of humidity in and out every day, for years, losing some volatile flavor compound components at the same time.
The input would've been minor, because if they kept that shop only somewhat cool (26 or 27 instead of the 32 or 33 outside temperature, just under 80 instead of up into the 90s), plenty of humidity in outside air would still mix in. It stays 60% RH or higher here in Bangkok; it's muggy. Inside a paper wrapper, ziplock bag, and paper tong wrapper it's not like this was just sitting out on a shelf.
All that's just a guess, and the tea is still fine. I'm speculating here why the 7542 might be slightly more intense, and this is a possible explanation. Since I'm not familiar with a baseline 8582 character, or how those vary from year to year, that's another. It's even possible that in two years this could seem more intense for transitions to a next character type causing variation, but the other two potential inputs in these past few sentences seems more likely.
Still, I would buy this again, and may do so. It didn't cost so much and I think it might be quite positive in another half a dozen years. Or 10; it's funny how sheng can often seem almost there for aging transition level for time periods that just keep extending.
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