Tea Mania Jing Mai and Mansa gushu sheng pu'er (2021)

 

I met Peter of Tea Mania recently, visiting Bangkok, and he passed on some samples (thanks much for that!).  I've already reviewed two very nice Baozhong (light Taiwanese oolongs).  These should be just great.

Tea Mania was the main outlet I bought tea from for a few years, but I tend to cycle through sources, as much about transitioning what I like as moving up in some sense.  It's not as if I've mastered Chinese sheng, or that Thai and Vietnamese versions are better (what I've been on since), just routine exploration.

These are large coins; it will take some doing getting them started brewing.  To me this shape works better than dragonballs, which are still coming unfurled 3 or 4 infusions in, even if you pull them apart.  Tea separated from a cake tends to infuse more evenly, and get wet faster, but these will be fine.

A problem came up in checking on the vendor's descriptions of them, adding whatever background that does, because the Jing Mai seems to be sold out.

Jing Mai arbor 2021 is listed for CHF 56 ($63 USD), for a 200 gram cake, but it's probably not that, since the site seems to be using gushu and arbor as two different type designations.

Jing Mai 2017 gushu lists for 85 CHF ($96) for a 250 gram cake, but that's four years older.

Citing background from those wouldn't be relevant, and it's hard to use them to get a feel for likely price range.  The first works out to 31 cents per gram, and the second 38.  7 years old is kind of an odd range, not at all young and far from fully aged, but some teas could be exceptional right in the middle, and if it seems better to wait out a half-dozen years to more full transition you're already halfway there.  

Review notes here will add a bit more implied background on aging patterns, but it really depends on the tea, the age, and the storage conditions, how it all matches together.

MANSA GUSHU SPRING 2021  (70 CHF for 100 grams, $79, 80 cents a gram)

Together with our friends, the Tea Masters Yang Ming and Panda, we went to the search for the ideal Mansa Gushu tea leaves. These leaves have been processed in Yang Mings tea manufactory to 100g Bingcha... 

For Mansa Gushu Spring 2021 used tea leaves from up to 300 years old tea trees in Mansa. We were already very pleased with this tea a few years ago but we were unable to produce them at that time... The tea trees in Mansa are partly shaded and partly at the blazing sun. This special condition results in a particularly balanced aroma. The shaded tea leaves are particularly flowery in the aroma, while the sun-kissed tea leaves provide a strong Cha Qi.

This description references them drawing on local expert help for sourcing and processing.  There is an interview with Panda on their site, as additional background.

Review:

Jing Mai and Mansa, round 1:  still almost too light to say much about.  It's fine; more notes when infusion strength picks up.  These are going to take a couple of more rounds for the tea to get separated; I'll give them over 30 seconds to keep that part moving.

Jing Mai, Mansa #2:  better, just not there yet.  You can pull these kinds of pressed shapes apart, once slightly wetted.  Maybe that will help.  I could add a little about the character but not that much is coming through yet; only the outer layer of them is brewing.  These seem warmer in range than I'd expected, but then 3 years is a good bit of initial transition time.

Jing Mai #3:  good intensity, maybe a little too much; that's how this would go, that I would brew them too long once they get started.  It's odd these will be on the fourth round before I get standard infusion strength notes.  Tones are definitely warm; these have transitioned through the entire early round of shift, as I see it.  They're not in a bad place; this is a decent transition / fermentation level for drinking lots of sheng, really before a standard medium aged range starts, or on the early side of that, depending on how one sees it.  I've tried really dry stored sheng that were like this after 5 to 7 years, or longer; they've already changed.

Floral range stands out, but it's deeper and warmer than it would've been over the first couple of years.  Sometimes there's a pine note in Jing Mai, but I'm not placing that in this.  Warmth stands out, warm mineral, and warm wood or aromatic spice, maybe closer to sandalwood than any typical cured wood range.  One part leans towards fruit, maybe Chinese date, dried jujube.  To be clear this is nothing like the earthy, woody, leathery range you sometimes run across.  It's warm in tone but floral range and a hint of fruit and spice fill in complexity, not wood tones.

Mansa:  because the aging input had a similar effect on them these share a lot of common ground, which is interesting.  The warmth is the same, even some of the related flavor range.  They're not identical but the same description would work for this one, it would just apply in a different way.  The next round should support making more distinctions.  

Bitterness and astringency edge has faded in these, although it still supports effect of complexity.  That's the positive part and trade-off of drinking sheng aged a few years; it mellows and deepens, but some of the bright, intense, fresh tones are positive, and those fade to warmer range, along with more challenging aspects dropping back.  I just reviewed a Da Xue Shan (Lincang) version that's all but brand new yesterday, experiencing the opposite, just getting blasted by intensity and fresh floral range, and a high degree of bitterness.  

The question here is about an optimum, about when these showed the best character, but there are two problems with assessing that.  It depends on preference; there is no one level.  And I'm only trying them now, so I don't know exactly what they were like 1 to 3 years ago.  Of course I'd only be projecting about how they'll continue to change, but I can guess at that.

Jing Mai #4:  a really pleasant fruitiness stands out more now, not really like the dried fruit tone before, but it connects with that, extending it.  It's like a more natural and better version of Froot Loops.  Warmth shifts from woody aromatic spice tones to root spice.  

It's all better; no wonder, for the tea finally brewing normally, at a conventional infusion strength.  Feel works; it has decent structure, but it's not too much.  Aftertaste isn't as pronounced as it might be but it supports complexity.

Mansa:  it's strange how this is quite similar to the other tea, but not exactly the same.  There is some fruit present, it just didn't ramp up as much, so warm floral tones seem to fill in more.  The warm range seems to still relate more to an aromatic spice input, not moving to root spice.  Feel is a little more structured, maybe even a little dryer.  It's probably not that much less sweet but the different flavor range supports that interpretation less, so it seems so.

The time has passed for appreciating these as young sheng, but they're both nice like this.

Jing Mai #5:  bitterness picks up; interesting.  It had really been moderate up until this point.

Mansa:  depth and complexity picks up for this version.  It deserves more of a flavor list than I'm going to be able to pass on.  Spice notes escalate, and warm tones not far off fruit range also increase.  There's still a pronounced floral base, and plenty of mineral.

Jing Mai #6:  this is really hitting its stride, and it was already pretty nice the last couple of rounds.  I suppose interpretations would vary related to flavor aspects, but to me this nicely combines floral range, root spice, and fruit range that's actually complex, more than one input.  The warmth is at a nice level, and bitterness is quite moderate, which works in that balance.  Sweetness is fine; I'm not mentioning it much since the warm tones emphasize other complexity, where lighter floral range would come across as sweeter.

Mansa:  the feel of this is a bit richer; it's hard to completely place what that contributes.  Overall effect is that it's slightly more refined.  Rather than flavors standing out as a few interesting notes this integrates it better, making it harder to break down.  It also includes some warm floral range, other warm spice tone, and some degree of fruit, but it's all a bit different.  Fruit is really secondary, as a limited dried fruit input; it would be natural to leave that off the list.  But to me it plays a role in how it comes across.  It might along the line of dried pear, rich and deep, but a bit subtle in form.

Jing Mai #7:  it's still transitioning a bit, onto more of a liqueur-like range.  I'm not sure that it's more positive but it's at least exceptional in a different way.  Most of the Jing Mai tea I've ever tried was pretty good but in between refined and high quality and a bit rougher and basic, and this at least leans towards the former, or maybe it is that.  

Maybe there's something to all that "gushu" nonsense.  Or just as likely better quality tea is just better quality tea, grown under more favorable conditions, using appropriate plant types, processed well, and so on.  Of course if someone transplants large fields of this same plant to low elevation, monoculture growing conditions, and boosts production using lots of chemical fertilizers, and pesticides to protect the material, then makes it in a high volume factory, it wouldn't be as good. 

There's a catchy flavor range to this, mostly related to a root spice aspect.  That alone makes it positive and distinctive, but the quality across the other aspect range really balances that.

Mansa:  warmth, balance, and structure come across more in this, the way layers of the inputs combine in a well-integrated way.  I suppose the first appeals to me just a little more (the Jing Mai version); it's easy to get hooked by a couple of positive aspects supported by positive character across the whole range.  It might be that these other aspects or character relate to quality markers, that in some abstract sense this is actually better tea.

It's tempting to say that the extra structure and depth of this might enable it to continue to age better, but I really don't know.  For as approachable and positive as this is holding onto it for another decade might not make sense.  A little more complexity across feel range helps it come across better in one way.  A touch of dryness to that structure could seem positive or off-putting to people, depending on preference.

It's probably as well to drop the note-taking here.  I'm sure there are a couple of extra changes to follow; these have been evolving positively, and will probably hold up well in late rounds.  It's just a lot to type out and read, and most of the story was covered in the first seven rounds.  It's interesting and novel when a new aspect shows up late, or balance really holds up well, but teas don't tend to improve a lot in the last half of an infusion sequence, they might just change some.

Conclusions:

All in all these were quite good.  But how good?  Is the now-standard $100 per cake range justified, applied to higher end in-house versions (so right at 28 cents a gram), or are they even better than that?  That mixes a few different themes, about quality in relation to style, aspects, and value, which ties back to different things, including demand for teas from local areas.  These probably are better than a lot of teas selling in that range, and standard outlets like Yunnan Sourcing and Farmerleaf have probably pushed standard pricing above $100 since I've been paying attention to them.  

I could never relate to any pricing anywhere near $1 a gram, but then others are out there appreciating better teas than I ever get to, subtle differences that I probably wouldn't pick up on.  I'm not even caught up on making distinctions between teas (standard quality levels) ranging between 25 cents a gram and then up to more like 40 (which equates to $143 a 357 gram cake).  It will be interesting seeing pricing for these, and reading the vendor description, while editing these post notes.

So of course I did see that, and added the details earlier; these might've sold for just under 40 cents a gram (for the Jing Mai, which is not currently listed) and 79 cents a gram for the Mansa, getting up there.  People buying sheng know where they stand on their own budget and spending, which is kind of more directly related than the quality in relation to price.  I think the quality is fine for these, although to me approaching $1 a gram would be out in relation to my own spending, no matter what I thought of any tea.

I feel like I'm not really committing to much of a judgement here, saying that "quality is fine," and style matches Yunnan standard forms, which isn't always the case for South-East Asian versions, or even usually how that goes.  These aren't really one-dimensional levels of one theme that are easy to evaluate and summarize.  The described aspects imply a broader story, but there are lots of parts to that story.

It complicates things that these are partly aged sheng, and it complicates things even more buying older versions, like the 2017 Jing Mai listed.  Storage input seems fine, not wet or dry, more kind of medium, but if you buy relatively new sheng you know what you are getting for transition level; they're not transitioned yet.  It's positive that these are ready to drink right now, and potentially negative that someone might've liked them more younger, edgier, and more intense, with brighter floral range instead of these warmer tones.

There are 2012 versions listed; that changes things even more.  This JING MAI GUSHU 2012, a 357 gram cake, lists for $169.  Given how much these samples have transitioned a dozen years would be pretty far along for these teas.

It's a concern that they don't sell samples of these, so that relates to risking the better part of $200 on 50 cent a gram tea that you probably would like, but may not love.  Their slogan "tea for nerds from nerds" comes to mind; it would help to work at a $150k per year IT job to be out buying $200 cakes that you may not love, or $100 150 gram versions.  Something like this would help with that:

PUER SAMPLER PANDA MANIA (8 grams each of 7 teas, 56 grams, for $34) 

Jing Mai Gushu

Mansa Gushu

Mengsong Dragon Balls

Bulang Gushu

Yiwu Gushu

Yiwu Lucky Bee

Bangwai Gushu

It would be hard to stop there, to order just that.  I looked up the free shipping threshold and it's at 100 CHF, $112.  Those Lucky Bee (Yiwu) cakes were always really nice, and a great value, and they're 45 CHF ($51).  

This is why it's as well to not hear too much about too many sources; it's always one more $100+ order to try something that sounds good.  At least with conventional quality level sheng if it's pretty good then value is fine, and you'll have tea around to drink that ages well, but at "gushu" pricing of 40 to 50 cents a gram, or more, purchases run through more of your tea budget.

These teas were good, and this is where I'd be ordering from to get this style range, since quality, consistency, and value have always been good through them.  I wouldn't be ordering anything priced at 90 cents per gram, but in general based on what I've tried it's mostly all safe bets.  Complete match to local origin standard flavor profile is something else; I don't keep up well with tracking that.  I just blind-tasted a Lincang (more broad area) version and commented that it tasted like Lincang, but that's an exception.

family outing in the Bangkok Chinatown

meditation practice

Ori Puer Lab 215 Da Xue Shan sheng pu'er

I'm reviewing a sheng pu'er that I initially knew nothing about, except production date, from an unusual source.  Stephen Liu--maybe a nickname of sorts, since he uses two different names in FB?--is the head of the largest Thai Facebook tea group, with 67,000 members, and the founder of a Thai FB tea marketplace group, and he writes a blog about tea background.  He is a main authority on tea in Thailand.

I saw him giving a presentation at the recent tea expo in Central Embassy, at the Tea Atlas event.  I brought teas for two people to try, who I had met at the event the first time I visited, and didn't see either there, so I passed on some to him.  We've crossed paths online for years, so it was an odd real-life intro, sharing tea out of the blue, but it's nice to give tea to people who can appreciate it, even if they don't really like that style best.  I've been into Vietnamese teas lately; it was those.  He shared back even more tea, which is likely to be better, at least in a sense, this 200 gram cake of sheng pu'er that I'm reviewing.

I could look up more about what he has done, and who he is in relation to tea, but essentially he's a name that comes up whenever local tea themes develop.  He sells tea (I think), gets involved with functions, like that one, does some touring, and so on.  There must be plenty of academic connection to cover as well.  This write-up ran long, looking up related types for area background, and turning up a related version from the year before, so I'll skip looking into more background, on him or the tea, and get back to that later if there is more to say.

I looking up what Da Xue Shan is--which Google lens translation mentions--this listing came up first, for a 2023 Daxueshan Old Tree Pu-erh (Gu Shu Sheng Cha - cake 200 g), selling for 64 Euro for a 200 gram cake, or $70:

Da Xue Shan 大雪山 is a mountain located in Lincang Region of Southwest Yunnan. The peak (3430 m) of the mountain is covered by snow all year round. Hence its name the Big Snow Mountain. Wild tea (Ye Sheng Cha 野生茶, often called as Shan Cha 山茶 by Yunnan farmers, ) grows at the altitude around 2000-2300 m in the mountain. Although growing in the very high altitude, it germinates earlier than other common teas. In the end of March, the tea is well ready for harvesting. The Daxueshan wild tea is famous for its wild orchid flavor and mild mellow taste. Local farmers are of Li Su race which is a rare minority group in Yunnan. 

There is at least one review of a version from that local origin in a review here, but they're not much of a standard reference.  I'm not sure this version that I'm reviewing is wild origin tea; it could be, or maybe not.

I looked up a Yunnan Sourcing related area listing to get more description of it, and another related tea version, 2015 Spring "Da Xue Shan" Wild Arbor Raw Pu-erh Tea Cake:

A powerful first flush of Spring 2015 tea from 50-80 year old trees growing in Da Xue Shan area of Lincang (45 km west of Lincang City). 

Da Xue Shan aka "Big Snow Mountain" is a high altitude area and perfect for growing tea.  The neighboring "Da Xue Shan Reserve" is home to some of the oldest tea trees in Yunnan as well as Yunnan's own Black snub-nosed monkey.

...The tea is very strong in taste and aroma.  It is both bitter and astringent with a lasting huigan and somewhat over-powering cha qi.

That tea was selling for $38.50 per 357 gram cake; it's interesting that the two examples vary so much in price, with both described as wild origin tea. 

Another example from there, 2018 Yunnan Sourcing "Big Snow Mountain" Old Arbor Raw Pu-erh Tea Cake, sells for $130.  

The pricing is going to tie to quality, and to whatever other factors influence producer selling price.  I tend to take these "old arbor" / gushu claims with a grain of salt; vendors might tie selling points back to expectations per related areas, or producers might present teas as something they're not.  In general I'd trust Yunnan Sourcing more than most sources, but in the end, to me, it's about how the tea comes across when you brew it, what the character is like.  

It would be nice if the teas were grown in the forest; there's a lower chance of pesticide use in that context, and less reliance on chemical fertilizers.  That second point wouldn't necessarily change much related to risk, I wouldn't expect, but character should be better from more naturally grown teas.  There's a harshness to low elevation grown, plantation, mono-culture produced teas that were forced to produce a lot of material, harvested at volumes that are hard for the plants to sustain.

Looking further I found a 2023 example of this same tea, the same producer and formula number (215), through a familiar Western facing China based vendor, Teasenz.  It was selling for 29 Euros or $31.50 for a 150 gram cake, and they had also carried a 250 gram cake, which is unusual, the producer making two different sizes:

2023 Oripuerlab Da Xue Shan 215 Raw Pu Erh

This is a typical raw pu erh that has a light and soft taste, yet packed with intense refreshing floral aroma. The mouth-watering honey sweetness and accessible flavour makes it one of the best teas for the beginning raw pu erh tea drinker, while the complex aroma will be loved by advanced drinkers.

Lingcang, Mengku (2250m)

The 215 Da Xue Shan series, has been produced by Oripuerlab since 2013, and due to the popularity, these cakes have become part of the factory's annual production. This cake has consistently sold out for many years in a row, and this year will be no exception.

They forgot to mention strong bitterness and high overall intensity, if the 2023 is like the 2024 (based on trying it before looking up background), but to some extent all that still works.  They're from different years, but I can't imagine that they're opposites in terms of general character.  This doesn't mention plant age or the wild arbor theme directly, but growing the tea at 2250 meters in elevation implies that it's not from a standard low elevation, high production plantation.

Review:

#1:  bitterness is really pronounced; that can happen.  Floral range is positive, and promising, but this is brewed a bit too strong.  One challenge going into this was that a lot of sheng isn't really ideal for drinking within a few months of being made.  Not everything needs a decade and a half of transition, but some is much better for settling for a couple of years.  I can brew this lighter in following rounds, and that will offset this intensity, and bitterness, but it's still going to be a bit extreme.

This reminds me of trying a tea from a local shop again, from Ju Jen shop in the Paradise Park mall (in Bangkok), the Lincang version reviewed here.  That post said that it was from 2021, so three years old now, and it has settled to a nice aspect balance.  Three years ago I would imagine it would've been a bit much, too high in bitterness level, and a little intense.  This may follow the same pattern, as clearly possessing some positive aspects and character early on, being of good quality, but not quite ready in terms of an optimum.  If someone loves really high intensity and bitterness of course that's just wrong, and it's perfect when young, brand new.

#2:  easier to relate to brewed much lighter.  This flavor profile seems to remind me of that tea [as it should have, at least being from the same broad area, Lincang].  Pronounced bitterness and floral range are pretty common themes though.  It's quite drinkable made this way, brewed light, but a year or two of limited transition would make it more approachable, and enable drinking it at more of a range of infusion strengths.  

Quality seems pretty good for this.  Intensity is a bit much, and the bitterness is really something, but those aren't flaws.  Feel is fine; it has good structure.  One part of the flavor is a bright fruit note; that is nice.  It's almost lemon citrus, or at least in that range.  To me it adds a pleasant complexity, but then I always do love a bit of fruit in sheng.

#3:  warmth picks up; that's nice.  Mineral is quite strong in this, in a dry mineral range, like limestone, or something such.  It could just be my imagination since it's so early in but I swear that I can feel this tea already, the drug-like effect.  I mostly had fruit and yogurt for breakfast and that doesn't tend to offset sheng stomach impact or feel (cha qi / drug-like feel), so maybe it is real.  I really can't relate to people drinking sheng to get a buzz, but to each their own.  I'd be using drugs if I wanted drug-like effect.

Of course aftertaste experience is pronounced in this; that goes along with saying that it's intense, quite bitter, heavy on mineral, and complex in flavor range.  It's pleasant, if someone is ok with high degree of bitterness and somewhat heavy astringency, and wants intensity to be dialed way up.  Per my own preferences I think I'd love this more in about two years, after it has mellowed out a bit.  In really dry storage maybe in 4 or 5 more years, but here in Bangkok sheng changes fast.

#4:  fruit continues to evolve, with most of the flavor range in this still relating more to bitterness, mineral, and floral range.  That catchy set of bitterness, sweetness, floral flavor, and a hint of fruit is familiar enough; that works.  Aftertaste switching from bitterness to sweetness is a common theme, hui gan.  I was just thinking that it was a shame that the Ju Jen cake was so small, and almost finished, produced at half this size (100 grams, where this is 200).  That's more of a sample.  

This sheng version will probably only get better over the next few years, and I probably wouldn't hold onto more for longer, to check how it is in a decade or longer.  I suppose if it doesn't cost too much setting aside a cake would probably give good results, in another 15 years.  Or maybe it would make sense at an intermediate transition point, between 5 and 10 years, but that's hard to judge.

#5:  astringency and mineral eases up a little; the balance is more approachable.  This is still on the edgy side, a bit dry in feel, and quite bitter, so only people well acclimated to that range would like it at this stage.  Again in a couple of years that may shift; intensity will still be fine, but tones could warm a little and that challenging bitterness and feel could smooth back out.

#6:  it continues to settle well.  Over more infusions it should carry on with a slow transition to warmer tones, maybe expressing just a little more fruit, and easing up on bitterness and astringency.  It won't make it to an especially drinkable when young range, so all that is relative. 

Conclusions, additional background:

Really nice tea; I like it.  It's a bit intense at this young age, but it should mellow and be more approachable fast, over the next year or two.  For people into sky-high intensity, pronounced sweetness and bitterness, and heavy floral range this is perfect right now.

I asked Stephen if he sells this and he said that he doesn't, that it's a version he likes that he owns a lot of.  That's so nice!  This would be an ideal tea to own many cakes of; I can't imagine that it wouldn't be better and better over any length of time, even 25 more years.  And it should drink quite well over the next few years, as a younger version that doesn't need more complete aging to be pleasant.

Many thanks again to Stephen for sharing this!

Ma Tou Yan and Niu Lan Keng Rou Gui (Wuyi Yancha oolong)

 

A few weeks back I met a couple of contacts that I already knew in my favorite Bangkok Chinatown tea shop, in Jip Eu (their Maps link and FB page, for contacts).  We tried some interesting teas, and I bought something basic (I tend to stock up on Xiaguan tuochas there when I'm not really buying much tea just then), and they gave me some samples of really nice Wuyi Yancha to try.  

For the most part that's that shop's specialty, selling higher end, good versions of Wuyi Yancha, Fujian Wuyishan origin oolong.  Then a lot of their business also relates to selling lower quality, moderate character related blends to local shops and such.  We drank aged sheng that day; they carry some interesting versions of that too.  I've bought good Dan Cong there, upper medium quality versions that don't cost much, and we also tried a pretty good Longjing just then, one of the main Chinese green tea types.  They carry lots of different tea.

I think they're actually selling these; sometimes they pass on interesting samples that they aren't.  I don't remember if I asked about pricing, but it may not have stuck even if I had.  A lot of their higher end oolong range had sold for about 1000 baht per 100 grams in the past, if I'm remembering right, or about $15 per 50 grams.  Depending on quality level that's either a normal price range or else a really good deal, and I think it just depends on which tea it is for them.  Some would be worth more, rarer types, and for versions that don't match your own style preference it's not mostly about that kind of value rating.

The one place name reference is familiar, Ma Tou Yan, or horse head rock; it's in the natural park area in Wuyishan.  That's probably a high-demand origin, so that version may cost more than their standard quite good quality range.  It's odd that a tone-variation of "ma" also means horse in Thai; there's a good chance that word was derived directly from Chinese languages.  Since I'm terrible with hearing or speaking tones horse, dog, and come are basically all the same word to me, which is definitely a problem when it comes to trying to say things clearly.

Review:

Ma Tou Yan:  it's pretty good, as it should be.  Roast input comes across first, in a relatively balanced form.  I suppose if it was even more balanced maybe the roast input wouldn't come across first, but this is the opening round, and that could settle.  This does taste like cinnamon, as these often do, as the name Rou Gui translates to.  Inky mineral depth is substantial, as it should be.  

Overall balance is good; sweetness and all the rest are right in order.  For this being the first round it's a little early for the big picture evaluation, but I'm not noticing anything like a flaw in this, and even looking for a limitation requires some interpretation. 

Niu Lan Keng:  interesting, for overlapping quite a bit and also being very different.  The cinnamon range is common, and this is also sort of an upper medium level of roast.  Again the roast could integrate just a little better, but that's the kind of thing to consider and judge over a few rounds, not just the first one.  The mineral range is quite different.  The other one is a bit inky, but this is really inky, so that it reminds you of the smell of pen ink (versus ink from a copier or squid, I guess?).  

Layers of mineral bunch together, coming across as depth.  Of course it is expressed quite a bit in an aftertaste experience, which is also pronounced in the other, but not like this.  It comes across as intensity, often a limitation across a lot of oolong range, but it's definitely not a limitation for this version.  It will be interesting to see how the two balance as they unfold, if the different dimensions complement each other better in one than the other.  For aspects being this positive it leads on to looking for refinement too, not just balance, but subtlety of inputs, and finer aspect character working together.

For these being this good and this intense it would make sense to me for someone to drink them brewed light, maybe best trying only one version at a time, letting the intensity and effect of the aspects build up over rounds.  For trying to do a comparison that approach and effect won't work.  I'll need to drink water between rounds to get back to a clearer palate just to make out what's going on with them.  The aftertaste experience from both, maybe mostly the second, is so strong that the water tastes sweet and mineral-intensive for a few sips, like tea.  I'll need to brew these fast to not overdo it for intensity, not true flash infusions but under 10 seconds.

MTY #2:  again it's nice.  For someone looking for this particular flavor profile of tea this would be just the thing, for heavy and warm cinnamon supported by medium-high roast input.  This might balance even better after another year or so, once that roast input had time to settle.  Warm, complex mineral coats the outsides of your mouth, and just a hint of char is part of the roast effect.  That's the part that would be dialed in perfectly for some, or out of balance for others, too high, depending on preference.  A lot of people seem to like quite roasted tea, and this definitely isn't in the higher roast level range, but it's just below it.

Inky mineral is nice in this.  It's odd then that it's so much more pronounced in the other version.

NLK:  cinnamon is still present but the mineral is quite intense in this, maybe a little stronger.  For someone who couldn't get enough of that effect this is it.  It ties to a structured mouthfeel and strong aftertaste carry-over.  As a potential critique maybe this isn't as balanced as it could be; it's pretty far towards that one aspect range.  Sweetness and cinnamon do counter it, and balance it, but it's about as mineral intensive as any Wuyi Yancha I've ever tried, or maybe more so.

That shift in related feel structure might also divide judgment on the experience.  Some people love intense feel, so much so that they give up positive flavor range to brew oolongs extra strong to experience a blast of feel and aftertaste ranges.  There's no need to settle on flavor balance--at moderate infusion intensity--or quite intense feel and aftertaste with this; both are there.

Using maxed out proportion for these, my normal approach, probably isn't optimum.  I'm just brewing the samples as I received them, but this might be 10 grams.  Or maybe only 8, and the tea tends to expand, but either way it's a lot for a 100 ml gaiwan worth given how intense these teas are.  Even using fast infusion timing these are a bit strong.

MTY #3:  this integrates much better; lots of layers of flavors are balancing well in this, coming across as more refined.  Roast input is still pronounced but now essentially even with the heavy cinnamon and heavy mineral.  This is brewed lightly, or at least brewed quickly; it has to be, given this intensity and the proportion used.  "Lightly" there is relative; this is upper medium infusion strength, more than it would be easy to ever achieve using a more mild form of tea.

It's nice the way that the char effect has settled from being a main input to an extra edge.  Somehow you feel this tea more than you taste it after swallowing it; the overall effect stays with you.

NLK:  that heavy mineral range didn't settle to even up and balance with the rest in the same way, but it might be easing up a little.  The heavy roast input (upper-medium in terms of level, but the "char" effect is a heavy flavor tone) is similar to the other, but probably differences in that one aspect input could be broken down, if someone focused on it enough.

A coffee drinker might love this tea.  It doesn't give up anything in terms of flavor intensity and complexity to coffee, and some of the flavors overlap.  There's extra bitterness in coffee, and the feel is full in an unusual way in it, which tea doesn't completely match, but this isn't thin in feel at all.  It would be disrespectful to this tea but it would be interesting to see how it works out with milk and sugar in it, how far that parallel with coffee could be stretched.

I usually notice drug-like effect from sheng pu'er most, that rush that you get, and a specific but varying range of head buzz, cha qi, as tea drinkers call it, but this has it too.  Maybe caffeine level alone is really high, or that plus theanine; who knows what goes into that effect.  Breakfast wasn't that heavy, a mix of baked goods we picked up on bakery shopping spree yesterday; maybe I'll snack a little on more and then continue.  

Maybe it will be informative how baked goods tend to go in a place like Bangkok:  for breakfast I had a Krispy Kreme doughnut, a couple of custard filled eclairs (the small spherical kind), and a chocolate version of a cashew-topped toffee cake.  There is more traditional bread with green pandan custard on the table; maybe I'll get to that too.

MTY #4:  this seems to balance a good bit better than the other version.  Earlier on I would've guessed that the opposite was going to happen, that the other would settle in intensity and really fall together, but the most intense range in that is still a bit extreme in comparison with the rest.  It's sort of a subtle, emergent theme but to me better Wuyi Yancha takes on a liqueur-like character, like cognac or brandy, and this expresses that.  It's more like cognac, or even like the scent of the solvent base in perfume.  I suppose it must be more pleasant than that sounds.

NLK:  this is improved in balance.  Heavy mineral range, a moderate intensity but strong roast flavor, and cinnamon all stand out, but none take over.  Aftertaste is really significant.  Feel has moderated; it was almost rough or dry in body before, in the first couple of rounds, tying to that flavor intensity, and now it's not as strong.  I suppose the other tea seems better in quality, as markers tend to go, but really they're just slightly different styles.  Maybe the "markers" theme is just something I tend to make up and apply.

For someone seeking out pronounced mineral, pronounced cinnamon, light but noticeable char roast effect, and overall intensity this version would be better.  It's dialed up.  The other is plenty intense, but this goes further.  Oolongs in general don't tend to work out like this; the material just can't support coming across that strong.

Both are exceptional.  I suppose both exceed my expectations, in different ways.  I thought that the teas would be good but these really are novel.

MTY #5:  the balance gets better and better, with cinnamon standing out all the more.  It's a good sign.

NLK:  this balances well too, but heavy mineral stands out more than the cinnamon.  Again for someone really looking to get that full "rock oolong" mineral effect this is it.  To me balance is really the thing, not one aspect standing out being better, but then preferences do vary.

a water park outing with a favorite cousin

a park outing with family; we rode paddle-boat ducks

the other boat

Chen Sheng Hao Menghai and Emperor sheng pu'er

I'm reviewing two more of the Chen Sheng Hao sheng pu'er samples sent for review by the producer (many thanks!).  The others have been nice, diverse in style, with some variation in quality level, matching the general descriptions in the site reference for which really stood out.

These are identified as two more of their signature product versions, so they should be nice.  They don't tend to list out a lot of aspect description, just some character reference, as follows: 

2022 Yi Pin Chen Sheng Raw Pu-erh Tea Sample Box

2022 Chen Sheng #1 (陈升一号)

One of the featured and award-winning blended raw Pu-Erh tea of Chen Sheng Hao. Selected early spring large-leaf arbor tree leaves in the Menghai area. It has a balanced taste and good coordination in all aspects of aroma, taste, and “cha qi”. It is friendly to new Pu-erh tea drinkers. 

2022 Emperor (霸王青饼)

Another award-winning and featured Pu-erh tea of Chen Sheng Hao. It is well known as a raw Pu-erh tea that has strong and penetrating characteristics like “Emperor”. It has strong bitterness upfront, penetrating aroma, pronounced salivation and sweet-after-taste, long cooling, and powerful Cha Qi. It can last for 15 infusions and still have good taste. 

As for pricing 2782 baht comes out to $76.55 right now.  I think this had been $79, and that change relates to fluctuation in currency exchange rates.  

Is that good, is the value ok?  It always depends on quality, since it's a relation of cost to quality.  Then different people could be on different pages related to budget, so that for one person keeping spending in a very moderate range would be a fixed requirement (15 to 20 cents a gram, let's say), and for another 40 could be the same as 30.  

This works out to 40 cents a gram, on the high side for pu'er per cake, but samples do run higher, and for exceptional quality level everything shifts a bit, maybe even a lot.  It's jumping ahead a little but for these two that rate seems fine, because they are a bit exceptional, then maybe the more ordinary range versions don't hold up quite as well.  

Looking at the expense in different ways might help place it.  $90 to 100 per cake is pretty standard now for higher quality in-house versions from specialty vendors, and those are often 357 grams, but then you just get the one tea version, and if you don't like it as well, or if it works out to be lower in quality level, then that's it.  As the sample description mentions if you were to drink 7 grams of each per day (one fourth of the 7 cakes) that works out to 28 days supply; about a month's worth.  For me spending around $80 on tea for a month is a good bit, but it's not for lots of other people.

Review:

Chen Sheng #1 (Menghai):  I let these soak awhile to get the brewing started, around 30 seconds, and this is a little too strong.  It's fine for getting a feel for character, just in the opposite form that I usually do, too light for an initial round.  

Of course bitterness stands out.  From there floral range is a main input, all framed around warm tones, over a strong mineral base.  This should come across quite differently brewed at more conventional strength.  A tea friend visiting mentioned brewing teas strong to get a better feel for characteristics not so long ago, and I've sort of been doing that, but it could be more familiar.  This is still pleasant and agreeable, but also too strong.  Flaws or off aspects don't stand out, just that intensity.  

It will be interesting seeing how a somewhat vegetal edge settles at more conventional infusion strengths.  That may well be tied to normal astringency that shows up more early on then settles out.

Emperor:  also too strong.  A perfume-like floral range is quite pleasant in this already.  It has good depth and complexity, and feel is nice, even though it's brewed wrong (wrong for anything but an odd form of evaluation approach).  It's quite promising.

#1, infusion #2:  brewed for just under 10 seconds infusion strength is more typical.  The usual ranges stand out, bitterness, astringency structure, solid mineral base, but there's another catchy aspect that's hard to place, that sort of re-frames the rest.  Along the line of warm spice tone, I think, but there may be some dried fruit in this as well, so it may really be two things standing out as related.  Spice would be vague, but some type of incense spice.  Fruit maybe along the lines of dried Chinese date, jujube.  I love that flavor, and to me it works really well in combination with other warm tone range.

Emperor:  rich and complex floral range stands out in this, but it's not just that.  The feel is quite full; that lends depth to the rest of the experience.  Bitterness might be slightly more moderate than for the other, or at least it comes across differently, positioned against different other aspects.  

With the other tea a couple of aspects pull it into a unique and pleasant balance, and with this it's distributed as an effect from across the entire tea character.  It won't describe clearly, since most of that range is floral.  There's an aromatic, perfume-like character that some better tea versions tend to express, as if some of the solvent effect is also present.  One might think of it as comparable to brandy or cognac instead.  Sweetness is pleasant, but it's how that sweetness comes across, as linked to complex floral and warm-toned range, and associated with a thick velvety feel.  I suppose the other may come across as more structured or drier in feel in comparison, depending on interpretation.

#1, infusion #3:  it's interesting how this comes across as narrow in flavor set range, with a number of inputs kind of closely integrated, but still complex in a different sense.  It's bright but also warm, sweet and approachable but also somewhat high in intensity with good depth.  Bitterness has fallen into a nice balance with the rest, somewhat limited, in relation to where sheng in general or one in this style would be.  It would be way too much for someone who only drinks oolong, but moderate for a young sheng drinker.

That one catchy range is still present; it hasn't transitioned away.  I think it might be a spice range note combining with a clearer underlying dried fruit tone, the jujube.  A hint of citrus picks up.  How am I calling that narrow or simple then, since it's quite a flavor aspect list?  There's an impression that it's all closely linked, that it integrates well, belonging to a somewhat unified whole.  It's complex but the range seems to all link together.

Emperor:  the perfume-like depth of this is really something.  It's almost entirely floral, in diverse floral range, but one part might seem like rich fruit, like dried apricot.  Bitterness comes across as lower in this than the other, but they're no far off.

It's interesting considering what these warm tones mean, where they are coming from.  This is two year old sheng; it shouldn't have transitioned that much, in normal medium humidity and temperature storage conditions.  Here in Bangkok teas change fast, but that's a different thing.  Flavors get heavier and some early range drops out quick, even over two years.  It almost seems like some of this has oxidized some, related to the warmth, dark tea color, and variation in color of the leaves.  I'm more or less a fan of sheng that has transitioned from extra oxidation in processing, it seems, but that would probably come at a cost in relation to long term aging potential.

I should clarify, this is nothing like the Vietnamese sheng I've been drinking that is a short step towards black tea from conventional sheng pu'er style, quite oxidized.  It still seems to represent standard sheng character, just a modified form of it.  Maybe that is from early aging; two years is long enough for things to change.  This version is compressed at a lower level than the other, much looser, and that could make a difference in relation to how it reacts to environment exposure over time.

Probably warm mineral plays more of a role than I'm describing.  It adds a lot to the overall balance, even though the richer perfume-like / brandy / cognac range is more novel, and stands out.

I'm feeling these teas; 6 infusions is a lot to rush through.  I ate a good-sized wheat biscuit breakfast cereal earlier to offset stomach impact, which would offset drug-like effect intensity (cha qi), but still it stands out.  I'll eat a little food and drink water to get back to a normal baseline.

#1, infusion #4:  it drifts towards warmer spice range; that's an interesting transition.

Emperor:  the light citrus note in this shifts, to a different light citrus note.  Like dried grapefruit peel?  It's something novel.  It works with the rest; it's interesting.

#1, infusion #5:  not so different.  I've shifted to brewing these relatively lightly since intensity is fine that way, even optimum, for me.  They're not that far along for being brewed light, after that first round.  These would go for another half dozen rounds easy, but I'll stop taking notes soon, off to do activities with the kids today.  They'll both probably express at least one more interesting transition too; I'll see later, but may or may not make a mental note of that to include it.

Emperor:  similar to last round.  Again the shift in the citrus tone is interesting.

#1, infusion #6:  I decided to try one more round brewed longer, a bit over 30 seconds, back to strong again.  That intensity comes roaring back.  Warm tones stand out a lot more made like this.  Nothing like a flaw emerges, even brewed strong, a good number of rounds in.  I had mentioned a vegetal note that I never got back to; that stands out more in this.  It's almost in between warmer and vegetal range, between cured hardwood tone and heavy mineral, or towards a forest scent.  It's complex; there's a good bit going on.

Emperor:  this is softer and richer.  Warm tones stand out in this too, but in a different way in a different other context.  Rich floral range is still present, and that hint of dried fruit and citrus, a bit obscured by the heavier flavors in this round.  This is pretty nice tea.

I've not made much of splitting out a quality level assessment against preference to type review here.  There's plenty to go on in relation to both, but just listing shifts in the aspects seemed like a lot.  Quality level is good for these.  I can't judge best-of-the-best range, because I'm not out buying $300 cakes, or even sampling that kind of material, but these are definitely decent, well above average.

I like the second version, this one, more for being so novel.  That rich floral and fruit range is nice, and the way a soft but full feel ties it all together.  The citrus note alone really changes how all the rest comes across.  I've not went on much about feel structure or aftertaste here either, again because there was so much to say just about sets of basic flavors shifting.

Pretty good teas; this has been interesting and pleasant.  I didn't make more notes about later changes or additional thoughts after this, so that's it for a summary take.

Vivek Lochan on status of Indian tea industry

Doke tea images provided by Vivek

After talking with Vivek Lochan recently about how social media group discussion goes, mostly on Facebook, I asked if he could fill in some background on the Indian tea industry in a Q & A form.  These are the kinds of ideas that should come up in online discussion, but it's hard to get starting points to develop to that.  

Most vendors and producers are posting online related to marketing, and tea enthusiasts might just show what they're drinking.  Marketing is fine, and it's interesting hearing about different tea types, or preferences, but it tends to not extend to a deeper level.  

This partly relates to me being the only moderator for a large Facebook tea group, International Tea Talk.  There had been interesting discussions there about a range of themes in the past, but it has shifted to occurring more in other places now, as tends to happen.  Reddit and Discord are active, for example.

For introduction Vivek is from a well-known tea producer family that owns and runs the Doke tea plantation.  His father, a main founder, is Rajiv Lochan, who has been very familiar in specialty tea circles for quite awhile.

This is their Doke website; there is more background there, and it lists some related social media channel contacts.  This blog post works as an intro to that background story.  This is a review in this blog about their Black Fusion flagship product, or one version of it, from back in 2021.

There is always a chance that different people could see different aspects or shifts in local tea industries differently, but to me it's quite interesting to consider thoughts from someone with more local area exposure than almost any of us will ever have, even given that kind of interpretation concern.  

I've discussed local tea industry themes in India quite a bit over the years, most in relation to discussions with Suzana Syiem, a close friend.  We even talked to Rajiv once about related themes, back in 2021 when Covid disruptions made talking to people online seem like a helpful outlet.  Most of this matches and extends what I'd heard before.

Vivek's input on tea industry status in India

How is specialty tea uptake going in India?  Do you see differences in how preferences are changing in other places?

Specialty tea is slowing increasing in demand and interest with customer across the country. People are willing to experiment more and with better buying power, they can easily afford to try more than once. The increase in availability of teas with flavours – natural like fruits and herbs or like mocktails kind of stuff – also helps attracting a newer audience of tea lovers who can’t necessarily be called tea lovers.

Specialty tea quality development often seems to relate to two different factors, to small, private producers developing a more artisan approach to making tea, and to experimentation and development by larger producers.  Is one of these inputs having the most impact, or others?

I think the abundance of small, private producers is having more impact. The larger producer is usually under economic pressure to produce more and sell more. The smaller producer usually doesn’t have as much pressure and is more open to experimentation to set himself apart from the crowd. 

These small growers sometimes mimic styles from other countries / areas but that is only apparent to a person who is well versed with teas from foreign nations. Most people are appreciative of efforts to partially ‘copy’ production styles while keeping the end result unique. Something like our Black Fusion from Doke seems to be well appreciated. 

Black Fusion, from that earlier review

In different places different approaches to promote awareness seem to work, eg. public tastings, or media articles.  What seems to make a difference there, and what doesn’t work?

Media articles, semi private tasting sessions, food pairings and free sample distributions seems to be working quite well. We are trying to get more hotels involved with setting up tea tasting and food pairing sessions so we can attract more people to the tea world. Larger public tastings don’t seem to work because then it can be difficult to engage with people. Engagement is important to have both the drinker and the brewer understand what each other are looking for - kind of like wine tasting sessions. 

Are cultivars in use continually evolving?  Can you add a bit about that?

The TRA is always working to introduce new cultivars or better the current crop of cultivars available [the Tea Research Association, a government run institution under the Tea Board of India]. They have certainly come a very long way in the past decade or so in making the tea crops more pest / insect resistant and sturdier against drought. Constant evolvement of the cultivars is very important.

I seem to recall mention of a specially designed sprinkler system doubling as irrigation and offsetting high temperature impact on tea plants at Doke.  Is that accurate?  Can you describe this more?

Yes – we have a new government sponsored irrigation system at Doke which has been working wonders for us for the past couple of years. Upkeep has been a little bit expensive at the beginning with sprinklers failing and pipes bursting but overall, it has been a great addition. The new sprinkler system has all its piping underground, so they are permanently placed unlike the old system which needed everything moved as and when required. Set up time and wastage is almost nil now. 

The older sprinklers had a larger coverage area per sprinkler with a stronger throw while the new system relies on smaller sprinklers creating an almost mist like situation. This results in better absorption of water in the leaves and in the ground. The sprinklers are situated according to a design generated by a computer program that takes into account terrain features like trees and elevation changes.

Are changes related to climate change impacting tea production?

Climate change has very severely impacted tea production throughout the country this year. A dry winter coupled with a very hot and dry summer had decreased growth very sharply up till May. The situation started getting better end May onwards with some rain showers. June and July has been much better with constant rain and some sunshine in between. The tea bushes are still under stress due to almost 6 months of rain deficiency, but the situation seems to be improving. 

How many flushes or harvest periods can you harvest from tea plants?

In North India, the tea season usually starts in March and ends in November end. Old hands like to say that it starts with the Holi Festival and ends with the Diwali Festival. This is true as both festivals are based on the lunar calendar. When either festival goes up or down in the date range, the tea harvest season seems to follow. Of course it is not an exact science but has been pretty accurate.

Can you add some description of background on major plantations in Darjeeling transferring from family ownership to corporate ownership?  Is this a concern for continuity of Darjeeling tea production?

Almost all the tea gardens in Darjeeling today are corporate owned with a head office in Siliguri or Kolkata and a managerial team at the garden itself. The only family owned and family run tea garden in Darjeeling today is Giddapahar. Both brothers look after all the aspects of the tea estate directly without employing any manager level employees. They make it seem easy to sustain a tea garden in the current economic situation but I know that it is anything but!

What factors are changing the local tea industry there most, among new themes like sustainability, fair trade, and safety (related to pesticide use and testing)?

The Food Safety Authority of India has recently highlighted the pesticide use but that is a very difficult situation to tackle. The Tea Board regulates what pesticides can be used in tea gardens and the dosage as well. A blanket ban is not possible as some pesticides banned by the Tea Board are allowed in other fields. Pesticide use also cannot be checked regularly at the field level. Soil testing takes time and labs are not very common. Made tea testing can be expensive and not every lot can be tested. People are becoming more aware about these things.

Are public sales platforms like Amazon—different variations of that—changing the tea sales landscape in India?

Amazon and other online platforms are certainly extremely helpful to market teas and find retail customers. We are seeing more and more of our customers moving online even if it is just to have an online presence. People are willing to purchase online and can find a wider range online compared to physical stores. 

What potential changes or developments could best improve the lives of tea plantation workers?

The biggest change would be to increase the wages of the workers, but the producer is barely able to make ends meet at the moment anyway. The consumer, the middleman, the wholesale buyer is certainly not interested at all in increasing their prices or reducing their margins. The tea gardens already provide subsidized rations, medical facilities and housing facilities but those can be a bit basic sometimes. The government could do more to help –  most of their programs don’t seem to be able to reach the right people.

Baozhong comparison (Taiwanese oolongs), Lishan and Pinglin

 

A tea vendor friend recently visited Bangkok, Peter from Tea Mania, and he dropped off some samples to try (many thanks).  These are the first I've tried, Baozhong oolong, a light oolong style from Taiwan.

I've had great experiences with their teas in the past.  This was a main source I ordered teas from just a few years ago, but I've drifted on to trying and buying more local Thai and Vietnamese teas since.  Their earlier sheng pu'er versions were really nice; it will be particularly interesting trying some of those.  This oolong range I've tried some of but not that much in relation to other tea types; it should also be interesting.  In the past versions have been fresh, light, flavorful, and pleasant, novel in flavor aspect sets.

Ordinarily I'd cite the product listings to add more background but the site isn't pulling up just now, at least not to click through to the right page.  More information should be here, at some point.  There is another Baozhong sample with these that I didn't try yet; maybe I'll add a section about all three then, and talk through some background a little.  

It's interesting that one is 2021 and another 2022, and I didn't really go too far into what that limited aging input would've changed, not that I know.  It's often a habit to make things up and guess, but I didn't, beyond adding a couple of sentences at the very end.

I didn't comment on this nerd theme either; am I really a nerd?  I'm an engineer, and I take exploration of some subjects a bit far, and my personality is defined in some atypical ways, but I don't see much to gain from taking on a related label.  I suppose it would fit if I were into that.

Review:

Lishan #1:  fresh, sweet, and bright.  I'll need to be careful to give these longer steeps to compensate for using less, maybe 5 or 6 grams in these samples, but brewing a tea light the first round works for me.  This really is in between more conventional oolong and light and smooth green tea character, kind of as expected.  But it doesn't have the aggressive tone a lot of very light Tie Guan Yin can have, in the best cases straight floral, and then when not as positive maybe including sweet corn, or even new car smell.  This is floral, mostly, but there is a vegetal component to it, closer to sugar snap peas.  It's nice.

Pinglin:  this character overlaps a little but it's heavier, and different.  Floral tones are much deeper and heavier.  There's an aspect beyond the floral range that's hard to place as of yet, not unrelated to vegetal range, but not exactly that either.  It's aromatic and warm spice, I think, like incense spice, sandalwood or the like (I couldn't identify different incense spices, to be clear; my exposure has been very limited over the past 25 years).

Lishan #2:  being a bit stronger helps, although warming in tones is kind of neutral; the lightness and brightness of the first round was also pleasant.  Feel picks up.  Floral range fills in more depth, there is more of a broader set of floral tones, including some that are warmer.  The tea is still quite light, in comparison to other versions' range; I mean in comparison with the first round.  It's not exactly complex but there is enough going on to appreciate it.  

That one floral range that I associate with high mountain Taiwanese oolongs is present, a light floral scent.  In rolled oolongs that can be really intense, so that you might want to brew a tea lightly to offset it being a bit much, unless you really appreciate the rich feel and aftertaste parts more, then you'd just go for it.  Again this is pleasant.

Pinglin:  there's really something to the depth, complexity, and intensity of this.  Compared to the sheng versions I usually drink it's on the light side, in terms of feel and flavor impact, but there is a lot going on, more than in the other tea, I think.  Richer and warmer range makes it come across as more intense, although I suppose maybe it's just an illusion that it's more complex, tied to how I interpret a warmer and deeper flavor set.  Probably it's both though.

That one aspect I tried to describe might not be a spice input, as much as just an unusually strong and rich floral aspect, that stands out against a field of others.  It's like lavender, close enough that it works to call it that.  There is also a broad range of other lighter floral tones, and warm depth, some sort of base that's harder to separate out as specific flavors.  Often that would be underlying mineral range, but it's not so clear in this.  

It may really be a hint of a few things, underlying mineral, warmth tied to spice, and even some sort of vegetal note, which I'm not really pinning down.  Then for being so complex it's interesting how that one particular floral note is stronger than the rest, the lavender.  Not so much that it dominates the experience; in fact the opposite.  It's just stronger, so it sets up an unusual harmony, not really even a "foreground" effect, but just something standing out a little.

Lishan #3:  this transitioned some; somehow a fruit tone seems to be evolving.  Whenever that kind of thing happens it makes you wonder to what extent it had already been there, and you'd just missed it.  It tastes a good bit like yellow watermelon.  I suppose that it could taste exactly the same and it's just an association or new interpretation that I'm adding.  It seems a little more complex as a result.

Pinglin:  this may have just flattened out just a little, the opposite.  It seems possible that warm tone range is picking up slightly, while floral range fades, but it's a subtle shift.  Mineral seems more pronounced too, giving it just a little extra depth.  It comes across as a heavier range and stronger tea than the other.  Someone really into that one light floral note that's pronounced in Taiwanese oolongs might like the first better, pushing it harder than I have been to get intensity up.  I would imagine plenty of sheng drinkers could relate to the second better, for coming across as slightly more complex and intense, with the warmer tone range just depending on individual preference.

This seems like a good place to give these a longer soak and then leave off the notes, since I'd expect them to fade as much as to keep evolving from here.  I've been giving the half a minute infusion times, which is a lot longer than I use for a packed-out gaiwan proportion.  I'll only infuse them for a minute, nothing too crazy.

Lishan #4:  this really shines at this stage.  Intensity isn't so pronounced; soaking that for two minutes might have been even better.  It's fine for an experience though, strong enough.  There aren't really new descriptions to add.  Light and sweet floral tones are giving way to more depth of other range, with mineral picking up, and non-distinct vegetal range playing more of a role.  I could see this as including fruit but it's not as natural an interpretation this round.  Maybe that light vegetal input is close to fennel.

Pinglin:  fading, in a sense, but this still has plenty to offer.  It's possible that a 3 or 4 minute soak for both could be the best yet, although I would imaging trade-offs would enter in, and aspects that pick up wouldn't all be as positive as the first rounds' range.  

It's interesting how these are light in effect but also have a depth and odd kind of intensity to them; it's an interesting contradiction.  They're what I expected from minimal exposure to related types range in the past, among the least of any main tea types that I've tried.  Baozhong would be "main" in a limited sense; listing out the main half dozen types of oolong to me it may not make that list (Wuyi Yancha, Dan Cong, Tie Guan Yin, high mountain rolled Taiwanese versions, Oriental Beauty, then I'd go with "red oolong" as more standard, oxidized versions up near the black tea boundary).  That's even without dividing up types; more oxidized and roasted Tie Guan Yin is completely different than very light versions.

Lishan #5:  more vegetal range does pick up, brewing this for 2 1/2 to 3 minutes instead.  It's still pleasant, just not improved.

Pinglin:  that one floral note comes back stronger brewed longer; that is nice.  Vegetal range, mineral, and whatever else doesn't pick up much.  I suppose it regains more intensity and fullness, and that's it, nothing stands out as negative, or even pronounced.  

It's odd that I've not mentioned oxidation level.  It seemed as well to just focus on the tea experiences, since going on with guesses about causes wouldn't add much.  Sure, this may be oxidized a little more.  And it's from 2021 instead of 2022, but I'd expect that transition didn't include that much shift to warmer and deeper tones, although it should've been some.  I'd guess that it started out different, and then both might've changed in different ways over 2 to 3 years as well.

Probably one more long round will close out most of the positive range these have to offer, although who knows, maybe they'd keep going, or an extra cold brew from them could be good.  I'll leave off the notes here either way.

No extra conclusions this time; those descriptions seemed clear enough.