Lifespan and natural death of social media channels

 

Something recently reminded me of the lifespan social media channels seem to live out.  People are familiar with MySpace and Google+ coming and going, but it goes beyond that.  I think Facebook is dying, and text blog posting has been dead for awhile.  I'll cover my thoughts on this, which I've probably written in a similar form here before, or at least parts of this.

My Space and Google+:  what to say; these were replaced by options that worked better.  Facebook killed My Space, and Google+ never really stood much chance.  Google gambled on the social circles function changing everything, and that never worked at all.  Then they gave up.  The sad part is that they really made the communicator function work well; Messenger just is a rip-off of Google's Hangouts, which was an evolved form of their earlier Messenger app or function.  I suppose that was based on Skype, related to the video calling, but it worked well, especially for that time-frame.

It's funny how what seemed to be computer generated image forwarding groups went inactive last on Google+, as if programs had been set up to keep that going, and everyone leaving didn't shut that off.

that's modern AI, but it was pretty similar to that

Facebook:  they shifted from trying to create a new and best case user experience to making the most money possible, and now my feed is mostly ads and promoted content.  It's no wonder that most Reddit users deleted Facebook years ago.  I post to a blog page on Facebook, and that draws some views to here, but in general I'd have to pay them to get people to see it now.  They changed that so suddenly, how their algorithm works, that you could almost tell the exact week that it shifted.  So they deserve the decline that they now experience.

Facebook groups have died in the most dramatic form, as much as inactivity can be called that.  People only want to keep discussing the same themes for so long, and algorithms changes decrease exposure for those groups.  I'm in Hawaii oriented groups as well there, since I live part-time in Waikiki, and those go completely inactive a bit slower.

a group I founded along with a Chinese vendor, and still moderate; it's dormant now

old style forums:  I miss these.  Tea Chat was the main place to discuss tea online at one point, an old forum hosted by Adagio.  They were already dead by the time they replaced the old moderators and ramped up use of marketing promotion of themselves on there.

Their time has came and went.  Someone tried to re-create it all as a new Tea Forum, but it never gained traction.  Expat / foreigner forums also died quite awhile ago, nearly a decade back now.

an interesting topic in a relatively inactive Tea Forum

Quora:  other themed sites come and go, as Quora has.  The question and answer theme only had so much potential, and it took them a half dozen years or so to extract that, and now that has been dead for a half dozen years.  You can say that it was mismanagement that killed it, that whatever approaches and programs didn't work out, and monetization always was a real problem for them.  But those sites seem to have a natural lifespan when they work out, and that form seemed to have an expiration built in.

I started two "groups" on Quora, which they called Spaces.  The site was dying when they rolled that out, as a promising last ditch effort to renew interest.  It absolutely didn't work.  If they had done so about two years earlier it might have.  I still post to those, a little, but it's just to spread out external links, which someone could possibly read there, and to add to the potential of Quora.  But it won't change anything.

Lessons learned:  I'm not so sure about this part.  Every composite thing is subject to dissolution?  That's Buddhism, by the way.  Surely we could dig a little deeper.

The life spans seem to play out in familiar patterns.  Earlier on, when a site or platform is inclined to work, it goes through an expansion phase, and whatever is novel is really developed.  Participation increases quickly.  In a mature phase that stays stable, and functions change, often in ways that don't actually work better.  Maybe that cause and effect goes mostly in one way, and once changes start to be for the worse the writing is on the wall?  

Then there's a drop-off, when it all just falls apart.  This happens quietly.  It's just inactivity, nothing too dramatic or clearly defined.  Let's examine the case of an active site and guess where they might be.

Reddit:  user base is huge in Reddit; r/tea has over a million subscribers.  Oddly that number isn't prominently shown now; I couldn't find it, and used Google to get that vague count.  Why would they hide those follower counts now?  It says there are over 300k active members there (308k weekly visitors), which probably rotate some.

Reddit changed their algorithm in the last half a year or so.  In the past it was a stream of whatever subs you followed, and whatever user posts you follow, and now they show you whatever the algorithm decides you might like, half what you follow, and half whatever else.  Sound familiar?  That's the same change Facebook made many years ago.  You can't easily customize what you see.  If you like or comment on something you're going to see a lot more of that, and there may or may not be any way to manually adjust that process.

As I see it Reddit is in the levelled off phase; functions and form are not changing much, and the changes that do occur aren't positive.  Groups (subs) discussions tend to evolve to repeat in ways that aren't typically positive.  It's easy for sensational content to gain traction, and for other topic discussion to be crowded out by that.  If the pattern holds the owners of Reddit will decide to sell the site at some point, and the new "private equity" owners will make changes to squeeze all of the profit potential available out of it, and essentially kill the site experience and the site.

Somehow on r/tea the participants prior exposure level, where they are on the learning curve for the subject, never changes, and never moves forward.  I suppose people only discuss a subject until they tire of hearing of it, and don't go through a lot of learning curve and still keep participating.  Even in groups where the discussions were advanced, and perspectives were quite mature, there was some sort of natural end point to be experienced.  That Adagio / Tea Chat forum related to real experts joining in, and the Puerh Tea Club on Facebook was based around really developed perspective input, and both are dead now.  Expat--Western foreigners living abroad--forums came and went in a similar way.

Steepster was an interesting different kind of example, a tea discussion and review site.  It worked because people really wanted a place to retain short tea reviews, of their own, and to compare notes with others.  But now they don't?  Shared interest themes sort of play out.

No more Steepster for me.  I had no idea there was ever any issue with there, and haven't checked in on that site in a couple of years.

So it's interesting how Reddit shows how that builds up to an entire site's life and death, as Quora experienced.  People tire of the specific channel form too.  Abstract things "ruin it."  You might expect the pressure of the next catchier, better formatted thing to be a main cause, but it's almost not that, or seems not to be.  Facebook groups may have killed Tea Chat, but Reddit didn't kill them, and Discord tea groups (servers) also didn't, which are now active among younger people.

Discord is sort of something else, but it's not informative to go into that, related to explaining this topic.  It's message-stream discussion groups, like earlier topic forum threads, but set up differently.  It's fine; it works well for people into that format.  It works out to be more social than older style topic threads, maybe trading out the potential for retaining information for reference as a result of the form difference.

Back to the broader perspective, the transitions we all experience build up to these site lifespan transitions.  I don't think it's all about moderators ruining things, or form changes decreasing the site's function and appeal.  There is a general pattern of development where at one point a site or platform host decides to really monetize the activity, and that's always a turning point.  It's like when McDonald's doubles their pricing over several years, while their food quality declines a little; it just doesn't work.

MySpace still exists, and my old profile does.  I was never really active on there.  It's funny that I can pull up MySpace and use it but not Steepster.  I've heard that someone was discussing renewing MySpace, again, to try to bring it back to life.  They could probably copy a lot of the early 2010s Facebook design and it would work better than FB does now.

Fortnum and Mason Rose Pouchong

 

I'm reviewing a rose pouchong tea from Fortnum and Mason.  There are a couple of interesting layers to this experience, beyond the tea, since pouchong is an interesting type reference, and this was given to me by a Thai monk.  

I can explain how that second part works.  I've mentioned giving monks tea a lot here, and it usually goes that way, that you would give a monk tea, not the other way around.  But it makes sense.

How can a monk give away tea?

I've mentioned giving monks tea fairly frequently, a few times in the past 2 or 3 months.  If people end up giving them a lot of any one thing, like that, it could seem inappropriate for them to stockpile tea, even though for a tea enthusiast that's a best case scenario.  Giving some away to visitors is appropriate, and keeping a moderate supply.  

People also end up giving monks things they're not supposed to have, like a fruit basket.  There's no rule against keeping tea around, but monks can't store food, because they are required to go out on alms rounds daily and live off that food input, and not keep "leftovers."  It's not the worst thing to give them fruit, not a violation of a norm, because they can eat some that day, and pass it on to another visitor, or temple staff.  

There aren't a lot of staff at a temple, like in a billionaire's house complex, but depending on the temple context they may need extra security, office workers, cleaners, etc.  We just had a memorial service event at Wat Pho, a main Thai Bangkok temple, that functions as both a tourism destination and a functional temple, for memorials, funerals (not many; dedicated temples tend to specialize in that), and marriages.  I was married there, and I ordained there, 19 years or so ago.  

That temple is typically the #1 Bangkok tourism destination on Trip Advisor; it's not just a tourism attraction, it's a main one, in a city that draws almost as many visitors as anywhere else in the world.  More might go to Paris, but that's about it.

I recently gave that monk two kinds of tea, after passing on some other tea a month or two prior, and it was probably adding up, what different people had offered.  Hopefully he didn't give it to me to balance the scales, in some way, as friends would return a favor, because I'm not at all concerned about that, and I have a lot of tea around.  Monks can't buy things, so I give tea to a few that I know, because they can't eat anything after noon, and it would be nice to have a beverage option then.  It's just that.

What is pouchong?

Pouchong is baozhong, a type of lightly oxidized oolong from Taiwan.  I had forgotten that, that it's the old name for that type.  This seems nothing like Bao Zhong, instead like a mild black tea.  That's fine though; when oolong types are relatively more oxidized the line blurs, since black teas can also be relatively less oxidized (within a narrow range).  Oddly they're calling it black tea, on the label, at the same time they reference a name for a type of oolong, which might be explained in the following additional background.

This one tastes like a mild and flavorful black tea, in terms of flavor profile.  That's positive.  I'm writing this after taking notes; it's interesting to consider if a bias towards thinking that it's black tea changed anything.  The dried leaves are dark, and the wetted leaves are brown; it's as oxidized as black tea, regardless of what they want to call it, or which processing steps led to that.  So it's really more of a naming and type anomaly; this is functionally black tea.

They could have been referencing an older use of the named type.  This is an excerpt from Tea, It's History and Mystery, by Joseph Walsh, from 1892:

That was in the "souchong" black tea book section; it had been black tea back then, or at least so it seems from this reference.  This is probably what they are referencing, a traditional type name, not the older name variation for a type of Taiwanese oolong.

Review:

First infusion:  it might work better to use a very small amount, 2 or 3 grams, and then brew it for 5 minutes, more or less as the tin label recommended.  I used 4 or 5 grams, and it will brew 2 or 3 times using this kind of hybrid Western approach.  It's "designed" for infusion all at one time, so that might not be ideal; we'll see how it goes.

The flavor is a little light, but it's fine, the range works.  Of course it tastes like flowers and black tea.  Like rose, I guess?  It literally is rose.  The quality of the black tea is pretty good, better than I would have expected.  It's not as if everything that finds its way into a tin is bad, that's just a generality that probably applies more often than it doesn't.  The more flavored a tea is the less the tea input quality would matter, so it might tend to be worse.  Earl Grey versions usually use some pretty so-so black tea as a base.

It's hard to identify much beyond general black tea range and rose.  It's a warm toned black tea, as those tend to be, but it lacks the malty edge of Assam.  It might taste a little like unsmoked Lapsang Souchong.  I still don't know what this is; it might even be that.  Or maybe Keemun / Qimen.  Let's check with Google how that should be:

Qimen black tea, commonly known as Keemun, is a famous Chinese black tea originating from Qimen County in Anhui Province. First produced in 1875, it is prized for its gentle, low-astringent taste with distinct notes of unsweetened cocoa, dried fruit, and a subtle, aromatic smokiness.

Maybe this does include cacao and dried fruit; it's hard to tell, with this much floral input.  That's a good guess.  The range of whatever it does include is positive, and it integrates well with the rest.  Tea quality is good; feel is decent, and aftertaste contributes depth, even though it's mostly floral (the rose).  

It's good tea, in a limited sense.  For a mass produced tin tea it's quite good, for specialty tea range presented as an exceptional version just kind of ordinary, or maybe not on a high level.  Complexity and intensity could be limited, which doesn't matter in this form, because the flower input is covering that.

Second infusion:  I let this go a bit over 5 minutes, to really extract the rest.  There is no astringency edge to work around, or any other unpleasant range, so it should be fine strong.  Or medium; the last should've probably been stronger for brewing about 5 grams for around 4 minutes.  

I didn't mention that this would work well with milk and sugar, but you would need to dial up intensity for that to make sense, and I'm already brewing what should be a really strong version.  It would be strange trying to brew 6 to 8 grams in a 300 ml infuser; at some level it might not fit in a basket.

Floral range really kicks this time.  It even picks up a bit of dry edge to the feel; it's pushed as far as it could be, without things going badly.  This is strong enough to stand up to milk and sugar, but it definitely doesn't need it.  Sweetness level is nice.  

It's cool how there is nothing actually sweet in this in terms of carbohydrate input, but it's sweet.  It lacks that artificial sweet range in stevia and diet drinks; this could really work for some people trying to control caloric intake.  A teaspoon or two of sugar isn't a lot of calories anyway (16 calories in 4 grams, a teaspoon), which makes it all the more odd that sodas contain so much (140 calories in a can of Coke; 8 teaspoons worth).

This is much better than I expected.  I've had pretty good floral blends before, and jasmine black tea is my personal favorite, so I guess it makes sense that I like this.

I'm still not unpacking a new flavor list.  It's not that far off jasmine black tea, but of course this is rose.  Maybe it includes cacao, or maybe that's not a great interpretation.  If there is dried fruit it's not so far off Chinese date, or that plus dried apricot.  The dry, warm, rich input that picked up could seem like malt, if you are looking for that, or autumn leaf might work better.

It might have worked better to brew 2/3rds as much for 6 or 7 minutes, maybe 3 grams or so, and that's it.  But as a specialty tea enthusiast I am biased towards experiencing some transition across rounds, even when it doesn't change anything, or isn't completely positive.

plenty of company for this tasting

Conclusions:

This is a great tea to have on hand for something easy to brew and drink when you are in a hurry, or don't feel like going through much effort.

So how much would this cost?  19 British pounds for 100 grams, or $26.  Is that a good value?  Not compared to what I've been buying at Chinatown locally; I just bought 100 grams of wild origin Chinese black tea for $15, a version that's slightly better.  But for this mass-produced range, selling on a Western market or webpage, it's probably normal, and ok.  

The one Vietnamese jasmine black tea I've tried versions of, from Hatvala, here, sells for $18.25 for 100 grams, and it's probably slightly better (relatively objectively, although preference always factors in).  But then they offer free worldwide shipping on $80 or over, so you'd be looking to build up an order to that amount, from anywhere but within Vietnam, where local post service is probably cheap.  

Fortnum and Mason, through their webpage sales outlet, don't ship to Thailand, so that's not even an option to buy direct from them.  I've never seen this in Bangkok, so it would probably come down to using an Amazon or Ebay outlet, which again might add significant shipping.  

I'd recommend buying the Hatvala tea over this anyway.  More oxidized / red oolong through them has been exceptional in the past, and trying a few other teas would be a great experience.  $80 sounds like a lot, but that could be months worth of tea.  That doesn't change that this was pretty good; I'm saying that you could probably get slightly better tea for less, using a different kind of source.

Chang Kham Thai wild origin Assamica black tea

 

I'm reviewing another tea from Chang Kham, sent by that business owner for review (many thanks).  He is the family member of the Sen Xing Fa Bangkok Chinatown shop that I have met a number of times over the years, who now runs a shop and outlet by that name up in Chiang Mai (located here).

I just noticed in editing this it was from 2025, so a year old now.  A tea like this probably improves slightly over the first half a year or so, as it settles, and is all the better now.  It probably won't change that much with aging over the next year or two, maybe just fading slightly, but not even all that much of that, if well stored.  

All that is guesswork; I don't mean to imply the level of confidence in that conclusion that it implies.  The main point is that there's not much concern that it wouldn't be as good related to being a year old.  Maybe it's not really better, but it wouldn't just lose intensity or freshness, like a green tea.

A description from their website:

That tea costs 1500 baht for 100 grams ($45), listed on their website.  Is that a good value?

Not really, by Thai local standards, but then there isn't that much tea of this quality level around.  It would be hard to place this against any other Thai version to use as a market price, so I'm really comparing against teas from China.  I can check on one though, since Tea Side is a Western facing outlet that carries exceptions related to what is produced:

2025 Old Trees Organic Black Tea N3, Loose Leaf  ($19 for 100 grams)

Loose black tea from 100-300-year-old trees, the highest quality material.

This is a classic black tea from trees. It is well-fermented and possesses an invigorating strong taste with many semitones and a rich aroma. The taste profile: tea rose, tulips, dried fruits, a little caramel.

Suitable for both, utilitarian consumption with sweets and for the thoughtful tea ceremony. 

The teas are probably fairly similar, but I might like the Tea Side version a little more, since their teas tend to match a Dian Hong style (from what I've tried in the past; it's a guess, related to this tea), and this was one flavor aspect removed from that standard profile (so still pretty close).  

So $45 is a bit much.  You always pay more for teas sold in brick and mortar shops, than in purely online outlets, as a rule, which is somewhat fair.  Their overhead is a lot higher, and they offer you the benefit of trying teas before you buy them (usually; that varies by store).  Also $19 is a pretty good price for what I expect that other Thai tea to be; 20-some would still be ok.

It seems strange blaming a vendor for value when they send a tea for review (many thanks for that!), but I don't intend this that way.  These kinds of really rare teas vendors would source at different pricing, and their marketing and final pricing is up to them.  

It's quite possible that you couldn't find a close equivalent to either of these teas anywhere else.  The supply chains aren't anything like standard farm production, so I'm not clear on what factors go into costs.  And it's possible that the Chang Kham tea is much better than the Tea Side version; only someone who has tried both would know.

Review:

first infusion:  this is good.  The style is distinctive, in a way that's familiar if you try enough versions of black tea; hopefully that comes across in description.  It tastes malty, but not quite as dry and mineral intensive as Assam versions (from that area in India).  It's not exactly like a malted milk ball or milkshake malt, but sort of right in between the two.

Beyond that another flavor included is cacao.  There's a bit of fruit as well, more or less along the line of dried dark cherry.  It's a nice mix.  Feel is rich, even though this is really just getting started.  It even expresses some aftertaste effect, while still starting out.  Through it all that one cacao note stands out, which is a pleasant aspect to bring the rest into a nice balance.

Because this tea lacks a lot of astringency you could brew it as intense as you want, and it would be fine.  The way these flavors are combining, with pleasant intensity, it would be as well to keep infusion strength on the light-medium side, because it will all probably come across well that way.

second infusion:  similar to the first round, but a little stronger.  There is a slight sour note to this, a bit like aged cardboard, that some people could find off-putting, and then for others it would just link to a separate mineral range that works well.  Early in my tea exploration I kept trying versions that went by the name / type Golden Monkey, and they were a bit like that.  Let's check what that might be, from Wikipedia:

Golden Monkey tea (Chinese: 金猴茶; pinyin: jīn hóu chá) is a black tea originating from the Fujian and Yunnan provinces in China. Only the bud and first leaf are picked, and the tea leaves are characterized by the pale gold threading. Golden Monkey tea is a black tea counterpart of Silver Needle white tea. The flavor profile of golden monkey tea is characterized by light, honeyed peach notes, and its lack of astringency. The name "Golden Monkey" can be used for many black teas.

...Despite the fact that tea has been grown in Yunnan for 1700 years, Golden Monkey is a relatively new tea, about 300 years old.[5] It has only been produced for export in the last 13–18 years.

This is a review of a local Thai version from 2014, almost dating back to that range.  I would describe teas differently now, but it sounds at least comparable.

That post describes a taste as resembling cantaloupe, and that might apply to this.  Or one part is definitely like sun-dried tomato, that sweet and savory flavor.  Cacao is still present, but not as the dominant flavor.  Warm mineral picks up, perhaps related to this being brewed a little stronger, or it just evolving across rounds.  All in all it's pretty good.  Again flavor preference in relation to that one flavor aspect is what would determine a take on this tea, if it seems off, or if that's regarded as pleasant, the one balsa wood sort of flavor.  I like it.

third infusion:  not really changing much.  It might pick up a little depth, and coat my mouth a little differently, feeling a little different.  

It's interesting to compare and contrast this with typical Dian Hong range, an overall personal favorite.  That malt note wouldn't be similar; Yunnan versions aren't generally like that.  I guess if they are a Golden Monkey type maybe it could be more common?  I wouldn't know.  Some cacao and range not completely unlike roasted yam is common.  I've not been describing this as like roasted yam, but it's similar, and that's one possible interpretation.  It probably works better for this third round than it had before, so it is probably changing a little.  The way the set of aspects comes across is similar though, even though it all may be shifting slightly.

The feel is nice, but it's hard to describe how or why.  It's rich, and a bit heavy, but quite smooth.  Maybe one might say that it's velvety.  As quality level goes this tea is fine; it's good.  It's more a matter of how it matches or misses related to personal preference for flavors.

I'll brew one more round a bit stronger, and this tea won't be finished, but that should be enough description.  Sometimes late rounds can be just as positive as earlier ones, or teas can thin in ways that aren't as positive, but to me that's usually not a main story of how the tea is.  It's interesting trying tea that is this approachable, in the mild and flavorful black tea range, but then I just did review a couple in relation to buying one from Viet Sun, and them sending a sample.  They weren't completely different than this.

fourth infusion:  that malt note is the strongest it has been, probably in part related to brewing this a little longer, and related to it evolving that way.  For people who have tried a few similar versions of Golden Monkey all of this should be ringing a bell.  As I remember those may not have matched this for some of the minor aspect range that shows a tea's quality, for flavor intensity and complexity, overall positive character, rich feel, and aftertaste trailing over, adding depth to the experience.  

That one balsa wood sort of note was at the center of those experiences too, if I remember right.  I wonder what that's from, if a processing form input causes that, or it's somehow related to using common tea material to start.

Conclusions:

When these kinds of black teas really work for you it's pleasant to drink a kilogram or two of them, to make it a part of a routine rotation.  I wouldn't mind having about 250 grams of this, but I wouldn't want to drink it every week for the next year.  That one malt and balsa wood note isn't something I'd want to repeat experiencing 100 times (although 30 or 40 might be ok).  

But then it's funny how all of that is completely subjective taste dependent.  I'm touchy about a black tea being tart, at all, but if a version has depth I don't mind if flavor intensity is on the low side.  Cacao, roasted sweet potato, and roasted yam are personal favorites for flavor inclusions (so this does cover quite a bit of that too), referring back to the earlier comment about liking the main Dian Hong style best.

It's a good tea version.  It's definitely worth trying this style, to see what you make of it.  I think almost anyone would like this tea, so I'm really focusing on how for some people it might be a personal favorite and for others it wouldn't.

On a completely different subject, Keoni and I checked out a really local shopping center in the Victory Monument area this past week to get a pizza (strange it related to that food choice).  I love those older places; it feels like we're out of town.

Viet Sun Y Ty air dried 2026 black tea and Wawee Tea 2026 black

 

Viet Sun T Ty black on the left, in all photos

Continuing on with Vietnamese and Thai themes I've been covering, this time it's about Viet Sun and Wawee Tea black teas.  These two versions were really exceptional.  I mean so good.  Enough with the spoilers; I'll cite some product details from their sites (or for Wawee, I'll try to turn up a Facebook page post info), and get to the review.

Y Tý Air Dried Black Spring 2026  ($21 for 100 grams, $47.50 for 250)

A really nice black tea made in the hot air dried style from one of our favorite tea areas, Y Tý.

Made from medium, old and ancient trees in the Dao village, this tea brews up into a rich copper red soup. Floral, sweet, with a malty chocolate, honey character and a low-medium roast. Rich mouthfeel and long finish.

Season: April 2026

Picking Standard: 1 bud, 2-3 leaves

Region: Y Tý, Lào Cai

Elevation: 1300-1800mn

Would that really have a low-medium roast input, versus just a moderate amount of oxidation?  It doesn't matter.  I probably should have read between the lines and ordered that instead of the sun-dried version that I just reviewed.  It is really nice.  The other might change for the better, given that style, but this one might still gain some depth, and it's really nice now.

Related to value around 21 cents a gram is pretty fair as pricing goes now.  Awhile back you could buy pretty decent Dian Hong for 15 cents a gram or less, but I would imagine that has shifted, as all tea pricing has.  You would be lucky to buy tea this good at whatever price it is.

There is no information post on the Wawee Tea Facebook page, as there had been for the sheng version.  It's Thai material black tea; that's all that you need to know.  I'm describing it as being made in a style similar to Yunnan Dian Hong, but that kind of judgement doesn't add much.  That generaliztion comes across differently in relation to this other Vietnamese version being a dead ringer for Dian Hong character, and flavor aspect range.

I can share their FB page cake wrapper, since it seems I forgot to take a picture of that:

That pricing relates to about $30 for 200 grams, so $15 for 100 grams instead of 21 for the Viet Sun version.  But that's Thai pricing; Viet Sun is a Western facing vendor instead.  As with the Viet Sun whether you buy the tea for 15 or 21 cents a gram you are still lucky if the tea is this good.  There are plenty of vendors out there selling teas nowhere near this good for 50 to 70 cents a gram, either making up stories to back that, or maybe some interesting stories are real, but the tea still isn't this nice.

Review:

Viet Sun Y Ty:  this is really more what I have in mind related to Dian Hong style teas, than the sun dried version I just had.  But then those pick up intensity with age, and tend to be oxidized a little less initially, so it's not fair comparing two brand new versions.  This is still really nice.

A pleasant roasted sweet potato note stands out, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to interpret the rest as tasting like cacao, but that's a judgement call.  Sweetness is good, and feel is fine, even though it's barely getting started.  It's going to be hard for the Thai version to compare well to this.

Wawee Tea black:  this is holding its own, so far.  It's completely different.  Tones are much warmer, and flavor complexity is harder to unpack; it's not just a couple of very pleasant main notes.  Dark cherry is part of it, and something like a cured wood or incense spice tone.  Often when I'm mentioning that it's about a limitation in the flavor set, but it works well in this.  It has a lot of depth, especially for just getting started.  Maybe some of the other range is spice oriented, even towards root spice or medicinal spice.  A warm mineral base is pleasant.

If judging at this stage which I like better, which is still too early to call, I'd have to go with the first version.  That standard, pleasant, well-balanced Dian Hong style is a personal favorite.  But the Thai version expresses more depth and complexity, so far, and everything it expresses is pleasant.  This should be a great comparison tasting.

I've got the proportion wrong, including less of the loose Vietnamese version, because it's hard to judge when one is loose and the other compressed.  I'll add a touch more, which will throw off how the transition cycle plays out over the next round or two.  I usually work around that by adding what looks normal to me, and it always veers back to 8 grams or so, but I tried to back off the proportion of the first, and didn't do so in the same way for the second.

VS Y Ty #2:  roasted sweet potato and cacao stand out again.  Or maybe that's yam instead, or maybe it's transitioning from sweet potato to yam.  You get the idea.  Mineral depth is pleasant; that really gives it balance.  A somewhat high sweetness level also works well with the rest.  Feel is nice, with decent fullness.  It's not dry but it also doesn't lack some feel structure.  A warmer and heavier flavor edge tastes like a touch of coffee, which mixes with the mineral range, and supports the rest.  It's really good.

Wawee:  it changed quite a bit; I would've expected that.  It's picking up a brandy-like flavor input, which is more or less the dominant flavor already.  Another part tastes like a bark spice, just not cinnamon.  Warmer mineral gives those pronounced flavors balance.  There is still fruit, more or less still in the range of dried black cherry, but it's secondary to the other range now.  Just a touch of tartness integrates well with that particular fruit range.  Ordinarily pronounced tartness makes black tea unpleasant, to me, but in a very limited amount it can be good, especially when it integrates well with the rest.

This tea is more intense than the other; the taste is stronger, and it carries over to aftertaste more.  It spans more range; it's more complex as well.  The other expresses a little more depth; there's something about it that seems to convey a deeper, more grounded taste experience.  Maybe that relates to the mineral input, or maybe it's an emergent effect that's mainly in my own interpretation, instead of the aspects themselves.

It occurs to me to keep mentioning how I like both in comparison to each other round to round; usually reviews never include that.  The Thai tea might be better in a couple of senses but the Vietnamese version really matches a style I love, so I'd go with that.  I would guess that this Thai tea is far from finished though, that it will keep evolving and changing, and will brew a long cycle, so it may seem better in one or two more senses before it's over.

back in this Bangkok home tasting space

Ina, that Siamese cat, has a cool look, but all of our cats do

VS Y Ty #3:  the warmer tones shift a little; what had been mineral and a vague earthy input changed to be closer to leather.  In a good sense; the warm and sweet tone of a new bomber jacket material, not the musty and harsher scent of older horse saddle.  Cacao stands out more than ever.  Flavor intensity is kind of in a normal range, but depth adds to the experience, in a way that's hard to describe.  For people who drink Dian Hong (Yunnan black tea) that description would already be quite familiar.  

Wawee:  fruit picks up.  It's still black cherry, but it has expanded quite a bit in range, so it's that plus something else, or more than one other thing (a little citrus enters in, and something like butternut squash flavor joins the rest).  The tartness has almost entirely dropped out.  The form of that fruit is intense, sweet, and complex, taking on a fruit roll-up sort of character.  

Incense / bark spice and mineral tone have moved into a supporting flavors role.  At this point the Wawee tea is better, per my subjective judgment, and I suppose if one tried to claim some sort of objective assessment form probably better in that sense too.  Compression level was too high in a version of this I bought 2 or 3 years ago, which really did impact the experience of it, but they've got it just right for this cake, loose enough that it comes apart easily using a pu'er knife (or pick, or whatever, maybe even just your fingers).

I've been brewing these relatively quickly, because the intensity was fine for that for both.  I might go a little longer to see what changes, from 10 seconds or so up to more than 15, or close to 20.

These are both really exceptional black teas.  I've tried some pretty good black tea versions over the past few years and both hold their own with any of it.  I've tried a lot more range over the decade prior to that, or even 15 years, but it's harder to use older experiences as a reference.

VS Y Ty #4:  it really didn't change much, for being brewed just a little longer.  Heavier mineral flavor input occurs; that's normal.  Feel comes across as thicker and richer, but it was already ok anyway.  The feel hasn't been exceptional, but the range was positive, and it supported the overall experience.  It contributes some aftertaste experience, broadening the overall effect, but not so much.  

The main positive is that the flavor range is a personal favorite, and there is nothing like a flaw in this.  Flavor intensity could be higher, but a black tea version expressing limited complexity and intensity but good depth seems to also work, for me.  The flavors a tea does express need to be what one likes, and to match well, in such a case, but that's true for me for this.  I could probably drink a kilogram of this tea, and not tire of it.

I'm probably making this sound like a basic, simple, limited intensity tea version more than really applies to it.  It is expressing some roasted sweet potato or yam flavor, something along the line of cinnamon, and depth that reminds me of root spice, along with pleasant mineral range.  It only seems to lack complexity and intensity in comparison with the other version, which is an unusually strong and complex tea.

Wawee:  the fruit effect changed again.  Now it's closer to elderberry, an interesting range.  It is a stronger tea, across most dimensions.  Flavor range is stronger, flavor complexity is broader, feel is more pronounced, and aftertaste expression is much stronger.  In part that could be because it's from better tea plant material, but it's also more completely oxidized (it seems; the leaves are a little darker, and it brews darker).  I'm not saying that to move on to claiming that the other Vietnamese tea has more aging potential, but it probably does.  It could also just be a different style.

For people into free-associating a mix of different flavor aspects there's a lot for starting points in this Thai tea version.  I do enough of that in these text reviews, but when I drink tea for my own experience only I just go quiet, and accept the experience without analysis.

This is probably a good point to leave off with notes.  These will shift a little more over two more infusions, probably with the Thai version changing more, and maintaining more intensity.  Both teas will be similar though.  

Trying the next round confirmed this.  The Thai tea is finally losing just a little intensity, and it took a round off transitioning in flavor character, with the Vietnamese tea holding up to the same earlier level of intensity and depth.  It might be that the Vietnamese tea can keep going longer for brewing out slower, that the trade-off for the Thai version was that the first 4 or 5 infusions might be better (in a limited sense; preference determines that), and stronger, but that it can't keep that up for as long.

Both are great.  Anyone would be lucky to cross paths with one of these teas.

I'm reminded of holding a tea tasting a decade or so ago, letting the guests try a black tea like one of these.  One commented that they didn't know that they liked black tea until they had that experience.  I looked back through posts to see when that was; it was here, in 2017 (and it was a Farmerleaf sun-dried Dian Hong).  I had covered a lot of ground by then, in four years of writing this blog.

In case it seems that I'm exaggerating these experiences, that every tea is just fantastic all of the time, I can point out that the last two sheng that I tried were quite good, high in quality level, distinctive, and positive, but more limited in relation to a match to my own preference.  Now with these black teas we're back to everything being just great, including that part. 

I have more ordinary versions of tea on the way; that will shift again.  In an online discussion someone mentioned that a standard, budget oriented, blended version was pretty good, from a producer I had tried teas from before, so I'll be covering a little of that range soon.  Not really low cost factory tea, but towards that theme.

one of the two other cats

Timmie with her sister

Vietnamese tea status, according to two experts

 

Steve of Viet Sun!

Seth and Huyen, visiting Bangkok

The tea industry in different countries in South East Asia can be dynamic, and Vietnam has a broader range of good tea to offer than any of its neighbors, except for China, and styles and higher quality levels seem to be developing there.

I asked two friends to share input on this.  Steve of Viet Sun is a main Western facing vendor, focusing on pu'er, or the local equivalent type.  Seth is a tea researcher, working on very developed writing on tea, along with Huyen, one of my favorite tea friends.  Seth is too; they're both great, and knowledgeable to a degree that's hard to relate to.

How does the perspective and demand on tea seem to be changing in Vietnam (by consumers)?

  

Steve:  I work mostly with old tree assamica teas (what many people in Vietnam call trà shan tuyết or shan, snow shan tea in English) as well as wild varietal non-sinensis teas so I’ll only speak on that segment of the industry. I see a lot of people getting into these types of tea, many just over the past few years. There are more and more tea shops opening and offering many styles of higher quality teas in bigger cities like Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City. The demand is still quite low compared to green tea from Phú Thọ and Thái Nguyên provinces though. 

Many tea makers are experimenting with different styles. For example, you can go to villages in Cao Bồ, Hà Giang and find multiple teamakers who make halfway decent- good versions of many different tea styles, while 5 or so years ago it was difficult. Many producers see other producers making new styles of tea (raw puerh, black, white) and they start producing it themselves with varying degrees of success. 

An example of this is some time in the past couple years, a couple tea makers started making tea stuffed wild tangerine tea. Now many tea makers all over Hà Giang are making them. Many however, apply that higher volume “export tea” mindset into making these other styles and often fail to sell these teas due to competition from higher quality similarly priced options. 

Yt Y local area tea trees; photo credit to Steve

that tea, prepared as a tea cake, or bing

the right spelling (accent / diacritic)

Seth:  Matcha has exploded in popularity among the general public. Matcha products are now widely available in cafes all around Vietnam, and many tea factories have started producing matcha. This fits easily into the milk tea trend that started more than ten years ago. 

In terms of tea shops offering specialty teas or a general trend of specialty tea consumption in Vietnam, that is still only a small part of the overall market. Most locals middle aged or older drink green tea produced in Thai Nguyen, but there’s a rising demand for teas that use less industrial production techniques, which has created an opening for teas from Vietnamese heritage varietals like the various Assamica varietals locals call “Shan.” 

On the higher end, there are a lot more players in the market than there were ten years ago. These are mostly business people from Hanoi who see opportunities to invest in tea as a luxury product for higher income brackets in Vietnam. Some of the tea makers who focused on the Chinese market in the past have started expanding into the Vietnamese market since COVID forced them to look for new markets due to border closures. The shift to local markets seems to be enduring. There is also a rise in Chinese teas being sold in Vietnam, and some Vietnamese are making major investments in bringing Chinese tea to Vietnam, teas like Wuyishan wulong, Liubao, and Yunnanese teas. This is a small trend but seems to be prominent.

Editing input:  just a random tangent, but it's interesting that "oolong" always should have been "wulong," that the original transliteration was pretty far off (per my understanding, at least).  Now the right term depends on how you see language use conventions and transitions, and it really doesn't matter.

How is the industry changing in response to that, or do industry changes lead that other consumer perspective change?  Are producers exploring new styles, or is awareness of traditional tea styles broadening?

Steve:  The general attitude of many tea makers I know seems to be to focus more on higher quality tea or at least higher quality compared to the high volume “export grade” tea they were making for China. The Chinese tea industry seems to be quite unstable at the moment so many people are focusing their efforts locally as well as internationally in countries besides China. 

Seth:  Traditional tea styles in Vietnam are mostly dead or dying out. Most are extremely localized, within a few towns or districts, and they are not something that most Vietnamese people are even aware of, or would have an opportunity to try. In the specialty tea community in northern Vietnam, there is some interest in reviving tea production methods for Vietnamese yellow tea, which is made using an older technique for making Puer tea. Some are using this as material for making lotus tea, which is closet to the techniques that were used to make lotus tea about 100 years ago. 

The most popular traditional Vietnamese tea is still boiled fresh tea leaf. Locals will buy it at morning markets and drink it throughout the day. But this is mostly the older generation. The younger generation doesn’t tend to drink fresh tea leaves because there are lots of other beverages to choose from now. 

Editing input:  without some context it may seem like this input contradicts his last comments about people tending to drink Thai Nguyen green tea (sometimes branded as "fishhook" style).  Seth is surely aware of a range of very local tea styles that most of us will never hear about, even though I don't intend to add too much here to clarify what he really meant.  Western marketing tends to make it seem like there is really a much narrower subset of types out there than we see in online markets, even related to Chinese teas, which get the most exposure.

-are Facebook pages or online platform shops changing how tea is sold in Vietnam?

Steve:  Yes, many tea producers are on Facebook and many customers buy tea directly from them. Many tea shops have websites but they are often not updated. You usually have to contact them directly to see what their current offerings are.

Seth:  More rural tea makers are able to sell their teas directly to customers via Facebook. This offers the possibility of much higher income that they would make selling tea harvests to factories. However, the quality is not always consistent, and some of the tea can be quite rough, so Facebook marketplace doesn’t always translate to long term economic benefits for rural tea makers. In some cases, they wind up with bags of tea that they struggle to sell because of quality issues. Customers also have a higher risk of getting a product that isn’t satisfactory.

Editing input:  I've had very mixed experiences trying to buy tea locally, more in Thailand, but also from Vietnam.  Sometimes it works well, especially with others' help related to awareness of types and options, but you never see clear product listings, and issues like communication (language issues), money transfer, and shipping are all typically quite problematic.

-has foreign Western tea demand changed (consumer purchasing from outside of Vietnam)?

Steve:  I see interest in Vietnamese teas in the West growing year after year. Many people both tea business related and consumers travel to Vietnam to visit tea producing areas and tea shops in the cities. I don’t know exactly how other tea businesses are doing here but our sales have been growing gradually year after year.

Seth:  Changes in Chinese demand are pushing Vietnamese tea makers to look for new opportunities in the local market. The exact numbers are unclear.

The market for specialty Vietnamese tea is still miniscule outside of Vietnam, but awareness of Vietnamese tea is continuing to grow as tea enthusiasts introduce it more regularly to markets in the US, Europe, and Japan. Overall, this is still pretty small scale.

-can you add a little more about what is of interest to you related to Vietnamese tea experience or tea culture development?

Steve:  I really enjoy spending time in the tea mountains. The scenery is beautiful, there are many regional food and drink specialties and the culture of the different groups of people living in these areas is very interesting. Some tea areas have tea trees but there is little or no tea making happening there. Some areas just sell raw leaves to factories in other areas. I work with the local people and share what I know about tea processing and the tea industry in Vietnam. The state of protection of the tea trees is quite depressing in many tea areas here so It’s important to demonstrate the value and potential of what tea can provide with the people living there. 

I am currently focused on exploring new tea areas, learning more about tea production and the history of tea culture in Vietnam especially in the different tea producing areas. My favorite style of tea is raw puerh so I really enjoy getting to appreciate teas from many different terroirs in northern Vietnam. It’s also always fun to meet people interested in Vietnamese tea and share with them what I think are good examples of teas that represent the current state of tea in Vietnam. 

Seth:  There are more efforts now to create a unique Vietnamese tea identity by encouraging local ceramicists and potters to make tea ware, and locals tea enthusiasts are putting a lot of effort into spreading Vietnamese tea to an international audience, and pushing to improve the quality of Vietnamese tea products. 

Thoughts on this input

A Vietnamese tea friend, Huyen, who any longer term readers would be familiar with, just posted photos of a new tea shop in Hanoi (or a relatively new place; it could be an update about a renovation, or new space).  It's my understanding that shops are developing, especially in Hanoi, as mentioned in comments.  Huyen and her family (Tra Viet is a family business) sell a broad range of teas, of course, but they also focus on sharing demonstrations of traditional tea brewing practices, which are essentially the same as Gong Fu Cha, but surely also slightly different.

Huyen and her brother (her family is also great)

that shop, in Hanoi

It's a great time to explore Vietnamese teas, before that trend for higher demand catches up with expanding production supply, and costs rise.  

More basic range is also high in potential for exploration, so one might stay open to that side too.  That range isn't as widely available online as one might expect; Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, and Indian teas draw a lot of online focus, and Chinese and Japanese green teas are more popular.  It's kind of a shame, because even basic Thai Nguyen region "fishhook" style green tea can be nice (and I don't even love green tea), and higher quality, more novel types all the more so.

tea meetup with them in Bangkok

A small version of a tea tasting meetup (in Bangkok)

 

This last tea tasting meetup was really more just having tea with a few friends, but to me the way it worked out was interesting.  We tried some really novel teas, since two friends from earlier meetups had just visited China and Vietnam, even spending time with Huyen and her family there (in Vietnam), and with Seth.  I'd probably be more envious of that second part than visiting a tea expo; her family is amazing.

Since the interesting teas were the thing I'll get straight to that, and skip most of the back-story and other details.  We just got kittens a few days ago; that factored in a lot, so I'll mention it in passing, but that's an example of what I just said that I'd skip.  The kittens were well received, and Kalani helped with them and joined part of it, which has just never worked out before, either kid taking part.

I'll explain at the end what themes this highlights, how different kinds of tasting themes can work in different ways.  You don't really need one continuous, well-established theme for a tasting.

from another tasting (I should keep in touch better, mostly mentioning gatherings in this group)

What we tried

The tasting (from memory; some of this will probably be a little off).

Tea Side Dong Fang Mei Ren white tea:  we started with a tea I've reviewed recently, a white tea version of Dong Fang Mei Ren from the main Thai specialty tea outlet.  It's really nice tea, pleasant and interesting, and in a novel style (especially for being from Thailand), so it seemed a good place to start.  It's bright, sweet, fruity, well-balanced, complex, and refined.

that Tea Side Dong Fang Mei Ren (left), and a Gui Fei (rolled bug-bitten oolong)

another Thai Dong Fang Mei Ren white:  then we tried another white version of Dong Fang Mei Ren from Thailand that Steve brought; amazing it worked out like that (from Wang Put Tan, maybe it was).  I thought that might have been Tea Side's source, but the two versions were different.  They overlapped, being the same tea type, but oxidation level and aspects weren't identical.  Both versions were exceptional.  Probably producers can learn from what others do, and I've first tried Thai DFMR (Oriental Beauty) versions nearly a decade ago, so the theme has been around.

osmanthus rolled light oolong:  then we tried a flavored tea, unless I'm missing one, an osmanthus rolled oolong.  Flavored oolongs can be nice when the flavoring is natural, and this one was pretty good, relatively speaking.  It doesn't match the best plain teas, or even well above average versions, but it can be interesting trying different range together like that.  It didn't highlight the most potential a flavored oolong can have but it was interesting for comparison, and a nice tea, just a bit basic.

Ya Shi Dan Cong:  then Steve shared a Ya Shi Dan Cong (duck shit) version they bought in China.  It wasn't presented as the highest quality level, most costly tea version, since it sold for a moderate price, but it was pretty good.  The style wasn't identical to most well-above average Ya Shi versions, but it was close enough, and the variation wasn't necessarily negative, it was just a little different.  The smooth, roundish floral range typical of those was floral in a different way, with a different kind of vegetal edge, but without harsh astringency that can come up in some versions.  

It was really nice, really drinkable, and easy to enjoy.  People speak as if "breakfast tea" means something clear, as if a drinkable, moderate quality, pleasant to repeat tea experience can stand out for this context, and this would work well for that.  Black tea is nice with breakfast, but I more often drink sheng pu'er; it just depends.

Vietnamese sheng:  having tried so much oolong it seemed about time to change it up, so we tried a more-oxidized Vietnamese sheng version, one of my favorite teas, even though it's very non-standard, and not exceptional in terms of matching any of the standard pu'er range.  I don't think it would be great for long-term aging, that the oxidation input would offset that, but it's two years old now, and is probably getting better.  It's hard to describe what "more oxidized sheng" is like, but I've written plenty of detailed reviews that cover it in lots of detail.  This review compares the 2023 and 2024 versions; it would get into those kinds of background contexts.

those two "Quang Tom" tea cake versions (so fruity, I can almost smell them)

2018 Xiaguan Reunion sheng pu'er:  then we tried another sheng, that Xiaguan Reunion 2018 tea ball I reviewed recently, I guess not so much because it made sense in a sequence as much as because I found it so interesting.  It's not ready yet, in terms of optimum aging, far from it, but it's interesting see where such teas had probably came from and were heading, and how pleasant they are just now.  The mustiness from the local storage I said would fade over a month or two is already pretty much gone, and it has just been 3 weeks.  It drinks much better than it had, but it's still not where it will be in even another half dozen years, when transition makes more sense, or a decade, when it's closer to a final form.

looks like a tuo, but it's half a kilogram

high roast level Thai rolled oolong:  we got back to oolong, trying a well-roasted version, again out of Thailand.  Roasting had sort of taken over the character, making it more one-dimensional than most of what we'd already covered.  If someone would love that one flavor range it could still seem great, but low level oxidation, higher roast input rolled oolong isn't a personal favorite.  

Producers or vendors who have tea around that's a year or two old and want to add more freshness or appeal to it are kind of stuck, it seems.  A light roast might help, or there's always flavoring to be considered, but in general the material is as good as it is, and that's hard to change.

medium quality, medium roast rolled oolong (probably from China):  then we tried another that wasn't so different for comparison, to see if the gaps in that Thai version were a quality issue, related to the material missing range, or how themes might shift.  This moderate quality version had more going on, and less roast input, so it was better, even though it was clearly kind of medium quality tea, nothing exceptional.  It had a bit of a woody flavor, versus floral tones or warmer cocoa range standing out, but that also leaned a bit towards spice, so it was nice.

Thai black tea, prepared as ground tea:  then we tried something really novel, a ground up black tea, out of Thailand, an experiment that was supposed to draw on a matcha theme to be used to make milk tea, I think it was.  It was pretty good.  It ended up working out as brewed dust instead of obtaining a matcha-like whisked (blended) thickness, but maybe it had potential to be prepared differently.  

It's possible that maxing out astringency input and getting it to brew faster and more completely for use as a milk tea could make sense, that brewing this form could be better in some way.  Or it's possible that it's just an experiment, and completely brewing a broken leaf version would work out similarly, or even better.

I may have missed one or two.  It was a lot to try, and took awhile.  It was fascinating trying such a broad range of teas, and great talking so much that at times we drifted well off the subject of tea, on to current events, our own life patterns, politics, and so on.  People into tea are surely familiar with that, how tea can support much more lively and diverse conversation than alcohol, under the right circumstances.  And having kittens and a child join made more sense with the tea, than if we had been getting drunk instead.

So what is the point of sharing this?  Bragging?  Recommending that others get together with people they know, or don't know, and try lots of teas together?  To me it's that last part.  People into tea seem to often be pretty nice, and when others can appreciate a broad range then all of you being fascinated by lots of what is experienced really adds to a gathering.  

It can work mixing a lot of types of experiences together, with sub-themes mostly linking two or three versions, then moving on to the next range.  If you want to experience the most of a higher quality, refined form then it could be better to dial in focus and pay more attention, drinking teas that are similar in a sequence that makes sense.  But for a visit that divides focus on discussion and trying lots of tea range the other way can be good too.  

It can be interesting trying a tea with a novel flaw, just to see what that is like (trying one with storage flavor input contamination comes to mind, white tea probably stored near laundry soap), but of course then you wouldn't brew it for very many infusions, and in some cases might want to discard a rinse, if that frames it better.

It was especially interesting hearing about what a Chinese tea expo is like, and shops in a tea area in China, and how exploring tea in Vietnam went.  I feel like I'd be speaking for someone else telling a lot of their story in summarizing that though, and the ideas covered so much ground I would miss parts, or screw up framing.  It sounded like a real high water mark tea experience, the kinds of things I've never done myself (both of those broad themes).  I've seen markets in different places, and tea plants growing in a few, but it was never like that.

I'll sample a single interesting idea just to show what I'm leaving out.  They said that in China now no one pays with cash (not so unusual, I guess), and that you need to have WeChat payment capacity set up, or other local apps a foreigner wouldn't have, and that this one step was a bit tricky to clear.  It worked for them, so it wasn't a huge hurdle, it was just interesting hearing about the final process.  People use payment apps in Thailand too, but they're usually good about accepting cash, and often accept credit cards if they don't take cash.

There were lots of other tangents that came up; it would take pages to capture even main parts.  It was nice touching on personal background and current events some too.  I've met them all a few times, just not together, so it was like catching up again, and adding meeting my kids and the kittens added some chaos and also an interesting extra dimension.

Kalani made shirts for them from a sock

wearing a hat (with some goat's milk spilled on me)

they sleep all piled together, at times looking like a yin-yang symbol

Eye with them (right); thanks to Ploy (left) for giving them to us