Bangkok Chinatown Dan Cong, compared with Moychay Nanjing Yesheng Dan Cong

 

I'm reviewing a sample of tea given to me by a local Chinatown shop owner, from the K. Mui Kee Tea shop.  I stopped by my favorite shop near there, Jip Eu, to buy tea as a gift for a local monk, for an event, and they were closed due to building repairs on their shop (the roof awning was damaged; a part of it fell).  

that shop owner is so nice, but I'm always visiting Jip Eu instead, since I know them

The tea I bought looked and smelled great, a wild origin black tea, but I don't have any of that to try and review.  But they did give me a sample of Dan Cong, so I'm reviewing it along with a version from Moychay.  Moychay just sent a mix of lots of samplers, as a thanks for helping with some editing, so I'll use them for comparison versions, when it works out.

There won't be any final type description of this Chinatown tea.  Maybe they mentioned a type range, or maybe they didn't.  I think the owner said that it's not Mi Lan Xiang, but I don't remember if he mentioned what it is.  He said that it's from an old plant source, and that it's really high in quality.

The price I did get:  1800 baht for 100 grams, which is about $53.  It's a great deal for that price, but then that's kind of normal for a lot of Bangkok Chinatown shops.  It's sky-high in relation to a lot of other tea range sold in Chinatown, but you could buy versions that aren't nearly as good for 1 1/2 to 2 times that price.

Here are the Moychay listing details:

Nanjing Wild Dancong Oolong (Nanjing Yesheng Dancong Cha)  (it's about $38 for 50 grams)

Nanjing Wild Dancong Oolong is an exceptionally rare tea harvested from abandoned old tea gardens and wild tea trees in the high mountains of Nanjing County, Fujian Province. The tea originates from Dancong cultivars that were once cultivated but have since grown wild for several decades, blending naturally with undomesticated tea trees in remote forested terrain.

The tea is hand-harvested each spring in extremely limited quantities—no more than 50 kilograms per year. Locating and gaining access to these trees took years of searching, as the gardens are known only to a handful of locals and remain largely hidden deep in the mountains.

The leaves are picked as one bud with two or three mature leaves and processed using traditional methods: withering, oxidation, fixation, rolling, and drying. The dry leaves are large, twisted, and wild in appearance, with a deep forest fragrance.

When brewed, Nanjing Wild Dancong produces a golden liquor with an arresting aroma—earthy, woody, with hints of tropical flowers and resin. The flavor is intense yet clean, with deep minerality, vibrant energy, and a lasting sweet-bitter balance that reflects the strength of its wild roots. It holds up to long and multiple steepings, revealing its complex, layered personality over time.

That sounds good, but the character seemed in between conventional Dan Cong range and typical good Taiwanese oolong character, maybe closer to the latter.  That's still exceptional, but perhaps not what people seeking out novel Dan Cong experience are looking for.

It's crazy that I'm reviewing two Dan Cong versions without mentioning a type name / fragrance category.  There probably is one, related to the Bangkok Chinatown tea, but that description is a decent reason for why there isn't one for the second.

This might be the black tea I just bought, looking for more background on this Dan Cong.  If that is it that sold for 850 baht ($25) for 175 grams, or 14 cents a gram.  If it tasted as good as it smelled it's a steal at that pricing.  I should give some to another monk, and tell him I need to pinch some to try it for review.

You can get a limited sense of how this is going to go from the dry leaf appearance, which isn't how tastings usually work out.

Review:

K. Mui Kee Tea Wudong Songzhong:  this brews so much darker than the other that a main difference is surely going to be oxidation level, probably coupled with a difference in roast input.  You could see that in the dry leaves; the reddish color base is what oxidized versions would tend to look like, and the dark green with lighter green in the tips is normal for lighter oolong.

I'm not sure the type of this.  It's sort of floral, but at the same time fruity.  It's not exactly like Mi Lan Xiang, although it could be that, and it just happens to express a good bit of ripe peach as well.  [editing note:  I mean it could be that from my limited ability to match the taste; as I recall the shop owner said it's not Mi Lan Xiang, since he mentioned that he sells a lower quality, lower cost version of that, but this is something else].

This form seems perfect, the way that oxidation, and surely some roast, combine to integrate those rich, layered flavors.  The material had to be really favorable to make this, but they also got the processing just right.

Even brewed light, on the first round, it's intense, with a rich feel, and lots of flavor depth and complexity.  It carries over aftertaste effect.  I really should be able to pin down the primary flavor, but may never in this.

Moychay Nanjing Yesheng Dan Cong:  it's a completely different style, of course.  It comes across almost like other forms of oolong, like something out of Taiwan, for being this light.  Intensity is still pretty good, and creaminess is pleasant.  It's not the most type-typical for Dan Cong preparation, but it works.  

Feel is pleasant, and there's a richness and complexity to this too, and even depth.  Flavors are in a much lighter range, but overall intensity is good.  Again the lighter floral range reminds me of Taiwanese high mountain oolong.  A unique and good version of one, but it's still in that range.

People sometimes discuss brewing around a characteristic astringency in Dan Cong, and these aren't harsh at all.  There's fullness to both, but no edge.  I think that relates more to low elevation grown, lower quality versions.

KMK Songzhong #2:  this tastes more like almond this round; maybe it's that flavor type?  It still includes great warm mineral depth, and some degree of floral and fruit range.  It's complex.  There's a pleasant liqueur like character to it, like cognac, brandy, or perfume.  The intense flavor really coats your mouth, as the feel does.  This is clearly a very good quality tea.  I forget the selling price for it but it was quite high, which I suppose is justified, given how nice this is.

M Nanjing:  tones warm in this.  It includes even more mixed floral range, which I can't place.  This might relate to three different flower scents, but one part is most pronounced.  A little of a green wood sort of astringency picks up, but it's so faint that green wood isn't a natural interpretation of it.  Maybe it's closer to spruce pine buds, for anyone who has ever tasted that.  It's like the more vegetal part of sage, which works out to actually be a complex scent and flavor range.

It's difficult for this to compare or compete with the other, related to my own preference, given how much I like that warmer toned, more balanced Dan Cong style.  But within the lighter style this expresses it's good.  It's interesting that it includes creaminess; that's more a different oolong range entirely.

Switching back to the other the perfume-like scent range stands out, and a light form of completely different feel.  A spice like cinnamon might include warm flavors, and it might also affect the feel in your mouth, and this (other Chinatown Dan Cong) is like that.  Not taking a tablespoon of dry cinnamon, I don't mean, but the much milder effect from a good bit of cinnamon being put on toast, of course with butter and sugar.

KMK Songzhong #3:  a little lighter, related to forward flavors, but the depth is as strong as ever.  I'm brewing this quite fast, and could extend the time to over 10 seconds next time, instead of under that.  It's quite pleasant brewed light though, since the flavor is already intense, and the feel doesn't become thin.  Sweetness stands out well brewed light.  

This is so complex that it doesn't really match the more typical one note sort of main flavor effect of Dan Cong.  There probably is one, that I'm not catching, but it expresses a range of flavors.

M Nanjing:  even though I love the other style more this holds its own relatively well.  It's also complex and full, with pretty good aftertaste expression.  Related to my own preference the much lighter flavor tone isn't as nice, but that part could be subjective.  It includes a little vegetal range, which isn't really a flaw, but it's different than the other only hitting positive, integrated flavor notes.  This is still mostly floral in flavor range, with creaminess actually tasting a little like cream.  

KMK Songzhong #4:  it's stronger, brewed stronger, but the perfume like intensity was already good last time.  The feel becomes more structured, and warmer tones stand out more.  A spice-like aspect range is more present, not unlike cinnamon, but maybe broader than that, including more than one spice flavor.  Almond is still present, and it didn't completely drop warm floral and rich fruit range.  All of that is bundled within a narrow and integrated range, even though it's quite complex.  Or maybe it's that it all connects somehow, that it matches and links together.  It's an interesting effect.

M Nanjing:  this is still quite pleasant, not so different than the last round, just a little heavier for being brewed longer.  Again this is in between a conventional high mountain oolong style, and typical Dan Cong.  Maybe just backing off the oxidation level input leads to that effect, but I'd guess in this case the "wild origin" plant type is playing a role.  It's interesting that the wild origin plant seems to taste a lot like a Qing Xin variation, the older set of plant types used in Taiwan.  

later rounds:  I tried these over a number of additional rounds, of course.  Both stayed quite pleasant for awhile, not changing in particularly interesting or unexpected ways.  Feel grew stronger and dryer in the Chinatown version, while the Moychay tea stayed smooth and full until the end.  Both were made from exceptionally high quality tea material, just in two relatively opposite processing styles.

Conclusions:

Now I wonder how much that Chinatown version cost.  $1 a gram pricing is pretty much unheard of locally (the Moychay version was 76 cents a gram, not quite that), so it really could sell for a lot less and still seem expensive, per local norms.  I should ask that shop owner and add it here, after I finish this post, as a later edit.  

That tea probably is worth at least $1 a gram; good Dan Cong is in high demand, and that version is pretty far up the scale.  If it's something like $2 that's too much, no matter how good it is, or how old a plant source is, even if that's still a normal market rate.

I've been trying some pretty exceptional teas recently, which has me considering just what it means for a tea to be about as good as a style or type gets.  That last Fu zhuan was amazing, and the two green teas (from Viet Sun and Moychay) were really good.  Even the last Thai sheng and black tea from Wawee Tea were pretty much as good as anything I've had from Thailand, although I think in that case it related more to a match to my own preference than to an atypical quality issue.  Quality level was good, very favorable, but they also happened to be just what I like.

As a sheng pu'er drinker I can sometimes really miss that intensity and general character, when I try these other exceptional versions.  Maybe less so with the Fu zhuan; that depth, complexity, and refinement really transcended the normal type range, for those.  With Dan Cong complexity is often favorable, in spite of what I just said about them tending to taste like one flavor, as they are marketed, but depth and refinement really sets the type apart.  But I still miss the way that sheng hits; it's hard to acclimate to the lower intensity.

Related to the Moychay Dan Cong tasting like Taiwanese oolong, to me, I think some people would find that very off-putting, and for others it could be a main appeal, a draw.  It's in between the conventional style ranges, which is completely unique.  But it's not floral or fruity in the same way Dan Cong often is, including that perfume like aromatic context that can come up.  It traded out that strength for including rich feel, and creaminess, and a different overall balance.  I suppose many people might already know where they stand on lighter versus more oxidized Dan Cong preparation.

Both teas were exceptional, again.  That running theme made it hard to place those recent Chen Sheng Hao sheng pu'er versions, the inexpensive and good value types, which were pretty good, well balanced and enjoyable, but more ordinary.  I can really appreciate ordinary but good tea; to me it's good enough.

Visiting Ayutthayah with the kids

I seem to write about visiting Ayutthayah most years, so I'll try to include some extra tips in this, things visitors might try out.  That would be mostly based on what we just did, on this visit, and visiting in the past.

It will be hard to put it all in any sensible order, so I'll just go by topics.

hotels:  we only ever stay in one hotel there, the Ayotthayah.  It's close to the old temple area, pretty nice, and quite affordable, maybe 1500 baht or so, $45, or possibly slightly less.  We checked out a 400 baht per night place last year, further out, that was a lot rougher, but my wife wouldn't stay somewhere like that, so we went back to the Ayotthaya hotel.  It has a tiny pool, and no significant breakfast, so the amenities are limited.  Others could find lots of other equivalent or "better" options, depending on the trade-offs they are looking for.

the bike shop just out the "back" door of that hotel

an especially small pool, I guess still fine for cooling off

restaurants:  we tend to go to three different places most, two for boat noodles, and one for seafood, on the river there.  I would imagine there are lots of other options, for lots of things.  We had a Korean barbecue sort of grill dinner last year, at a place near the Ayotthayah, which I forget the name of (it has another Thai name).  We tend to go there for short outings, for a day and a half, so it's not really enough to explore other options all that much, and we focus on visiting old temples.

a different place, but the same cooking form

bike tour of ancient temples / ruins:  I've done this a few times, maybe three.  This past week it was way too hot, in the upper 90s F / upper 30s C, so it would've been much better to go out in the morning, but we didn't get there until the afternoon (on a one day trip outing).  The closest / most inner 4 or 5 temples are a good set for biking around and visiting, and a couple of others aren't too far.  We went to one across one river, on bikes once, and that's a bit much (the one on the east side).  Another even further out, I think more on the south, is a little more elaborate than most, which is good for visiting by car, maybe at the end of the day.

the iconic photo spot at Wat Mahadat

a trip there last year

It probably won't help others too much, but I can compare how it works out there to Sukhothai, or even Siem Reap, Cambodia, or to other old Thai temple sites.  Sukhothai is a more isolated and less developed old temple site, another 4 hours or so drive well north of Bangkok, on the way to Chiang Mai.  You could bike around there too, I suppose, but we've only ever visited by car.  The central part is fine to walk around without a bike, and we tend to stay in hotels that are further out there.  Ayutthaya developed up around the old ruins, so there are hotels, restaurants, and all kinds of shops right between the old temple sites.

I suppose it gives Sukhothai a different feel effect, that's hard to describe.  Visiting old temples in the middle of a re-developed city is fine, they're nice, and some park spaces between are beautiful, and spacious.  But having a lot of space clear for just those monuments is nicer.

a lights festival at Sukhothai

Siem Reap, in Cambodia, where Angkor Wat is located, is much bigger, more extensive, and isolated within more undeveloped space.  Angkor Wat and Baiyon are huge, and other temples are more extensive than anything that has survived in Thailand.  Maybe it's bigger than Machu Pichu; I'm not sure.

Other places in Thailand are even more limited, but they can still be nice.  We visited Si Thep last year, to a much older site than the other two in Thailand, developed during an early period when Hinduism was influential in Thailand.  As in Cambodia the different historical eras brought different religious influences, and temples were re-worked to include the "new" symbolism.  Of course Buddhism was more influential later, which is still the primary religion in Thailand today.

light and sound festival at one Si Thep monument

Ayutthaya burned, when the Burmese (earlier Myanmar empire) invaded and destroyed a lot of it.  Their hold on Thailand, or Siam, earlier Thailand, was quite short, but the destruction was pretty complete.

We don't tend to see museums about the history in Ayutthaya.  There must be more around than we encounter.  There's a pretty good earlier history museum up in Lop Buri, where there's a relatively small early period Hindu monument.  That's the small Thai town that was overrun by wild monkeys, or at least the old part was, with a newer city center developed some distance away to stay clear of their town space habitat.  Combining visiting Lop Buri and Si Thep would work well for a three or four day outing, spending a day in each, and adding a day or two for travel, even though it's only four hours or so away (Lop Buri, the closer destination).

There wasn't much around the old monuments in Si Thep identifying what it all meant, but for people who don't read a lot of museum written content anyway it would be all they expect to take in.  One monument is quite large there, and an extensive early palace grounds--I think it was that--was only uncovered and developed as parts of a half dozen different old monuments and structures.

the feel of Ayutthaya, versus Bangkok, and smaller towns:  Bangkok is already fairly pleasant and relaxed, but other places outside of the city are even more so.  The smaller the town the quieter the atmosphere and less busy the feel, to me.  Ayutthaya isn't very urban, or crowded.  You can ride bikes there with some car traffic around, even though there is only a limited amount of dedicated bike lanes, which is on the opposite scale and density of Bangkok traffic (where I'd never ride a bike).

Of course there are countless coffee shops, ice cream places, noodle shops, and so on.  Local street food places and old markets turn up, where tourists tend to stay.  It's a good place to not spend much money to experience basic but nice foods.  The range is mostly local Thai food, of course.  You might get bad pizza or Italian, if enough tourists are there to expect that, but it's as well to switch over.  I don't think there is a lot to do, beyond visiting those temples.  But there must be at least one museum, that we never get to.

distance from Bangkok / how to travel there:  we drove up, and it's not much over an hour from our house, in the older Dusit area in town (near Victory Monument).  It's at least possible to take a local train up there, which I think wouldn't cost much, maybe even under 100 baht ($3).  Or buses would run up to there, or renting a car for a day could work.  I'm not sure how well it works to have a normal taxi drive you up.  

You can rent a car for the day, with a driver, for something like 2000 baht in Bangkok, I think ($60), so if someone looked around enough inexpensive and very functional options would turn up.  Or maybe it's more now; I'm basing that on us renting vans regularly for around 1500 years back, but maybe that cost has doubled since.  Still, that would only be $90 per day, which doesn't go far for taxi fare back in the US, and that's for a van and driver.

For me driving in Thailand is no problem, but then I live here.  It was pretty rough for the first year or so, until I adjusted to it.  That road is a crowded but fairly open highway, between Bangkok and Ayutthayah.  

If you do drive there is a truly massive Thai market on the way, Talat Thai, which you would need to look up on maps to see.  It's wholesale oriented, so the best possible place to buy multiple kilograms of Thai fruits (or vegetables or meats), which could come in handy to support breakfasts or snacks.  It would be tricky for foreigners to shop there, because it's a complex of a half dozen giant buildings, but for some sorting it out would be part of the adventure.  There's a nice food court there; that could also relate to grabbing a breakfast or lunch (if you run late, in order to do two or more days in Ayutthaya).  A day and a half seems like plenty, to me, but two days at a relaxed pace would work.

We tend to stop at the Central mall on the way there or back, but it's identical to other places in Bangkok.  It's a convenient place to get a travel meal in, at a food court there, or any number of restaurants.

other themes, religious observance and restrictions:  people ride elephants near the one temple; issues related to that are worth mentioning.  It's considered by many to be unethical to ride elephants, because it's not comfortable for them to hold a chair structure on their back, and they have to live in captivity to do the work.  It's hard to be clear on that point.  Domestic elephants have been used for a long time for agriculture, and they can't really be returned to the wild.  Most people only visit "ethical elephant camps" now, and skip the elephant rides.  But it's more of a tourism theme in Chiang Mai, than in other places.

Visiting functional (modern) temples comes up; there is one main one near the other old ruins versions, and we've visited a second not far from another that's further out.  There isn't much to know, for what to do or not to do.  The main restriction is that women shouldn't wear revealing clothes, which is also true of the old temples / temple ruins areas.  My daughter wore a crop top, because it was hot, and took an extra shirt to wear into the temples.  You can donate money to temples, if you want, and there are different ways that Thais make observances, and make wishes.  

Trivial practices and restrictions include that you shouldn't step on the doorway entrance frames in temples; you should step over that door section.  Nothing would happen if you did step on it, but it's considered disrespectful.  If you want to use a Thai observance practice you can "wai" three times to a main Buddha image, like the Christian prayer motion with your hands, while kneeling (in a different leg position, if you want to copy others), and put your hands down to the ground after, as you bow low, for those three times.  This relates to paying respect to the Buddha, to the Sangha (the monkhood and practitioners of Buddhism), and to the Dharma, to the Buddhist teachings.  

Of course touching statues, sitting on them, or doing playful photo poses is not appropriate.  Monks cannot physically touch a woman, so it's best to be aware that the restriction is interpreted in an extreme form.  Women can't even directly hand a monk something; they put a small cloth down to receive anything given to them by a woman or girl.

That kind of exception, that restriction, doesn't contradict that Thai culture is open and welcoming to visitors, and quite relaxed in general.  They're generally fine with visitors getting minor cultural norms wrong, and there's only a short list of issues that won't work for, relating mostly to showing disrespect to their monarchy or religion.

Recurring tourism themes in Hawaii and Thailand

 

not really on a bus tour

Not so long ago I ran across an article on Hawaiian tourism that expressed that visitor spending was stagnant, or perhaps even dropping.  This repeats a theme that comes up in Thai media regularly over the last 20 years, that they would prefer to attract a better, higher spending class of tourists, at times expressed as a more important goal than attracting more tourists.  I'll unpack a bit what I think is going on with both.  It's not exactly the same thing, but not different either.

The initial response is pretty obvious:  inflation has been rising in both places, quite quickly in the US over the past few years, and faster than previously in Thailand recently, so the same tourists are finding it difficult to match spending habits just a decade ago.  That's probably most of it.  But we can unpack it a bit more.

Starting with Thailand

The earlier problem there was tourism related to tours, framed as zero-dollar tours by Chinese tour groups, although that's probably only one main form.  Articles like this cover the general background, tourism statistics, and the emphasis on attracting higher spending visitors.  This reference from 2025 covers the same themes.  

This article introduces the topic, and the relation to the Tourism Authority of Thailand:

TAT Governor Thapanee Kiatphaibool said the 2026 direction shifts towards “Value Over Volume”, after weaker foreign demand was hit by factors such as natural disasters, scam-related concerns and the Thai–Cambodian border dispute, which affected travel sentiment and forced a more proactive marketing approach.

Targets: 36.7m foreigners, 205m+ domestic trips

One might wonder how they could adjust who visits; that first article cited mentions one idea:

“We’ve set the outline for TAT to accelerate tourists’ decisions by offering tailor-made tour packages that will match segments with high spending. For instance, the medical tourist segment, who book long-stay accommodation for themselves and their families, should have tour package options to purchase easily while in Thailand,” she said.

That doesn't sound very promising; people can already make arrangements with a foreigner oriented hospital and book a hotel room.  It's already easy.  The hospitals already offer a lot of different packages, related to bundling sets of services (eg. health checks, or longevity related treatments).  I guess marketing could relate to promoting these themes, and raising awareness about the special packages.

I've been on such group / bus tours in Japan and Korea, so the form is familiar to me.  You buy a trip as a package, including transportation (air travel), hotel stay, guide service, and even meal costs, which the tour provider arranges in advance using group rates, so that they can still turn a profit.  It's an inexpensive way to travel.  The trade-off, as a tourist, is all of your freedom.  You get on and off a bus and see the places on your itinerary, limited to the time they allot.  You eat what they plan for you to eat, and stay where they arrange for you to stay.  You need to wake up and sleep at pre-determined times.

The Chinese tour group form isn't really different than what I experienced, in mainly Thai groups (my wife had set that up, based out of Bangkok).  The food was often better than you might expect for such a format, since they arranged decent versions of local foods.  It's a mindless way to travel, getting on and off a bus, spending an hour here and there.  At least a guide drones on with a canned background speech.  I suppose I was listening to that in Thai fairly often, but that part wasn't so memorable that it sticks out.

Of course what Thailand wants instead are 5 star guests, staying in $200 or higher per night resorts (which would be $500 in Hawaii instead), spending money in higher end restaurants, and buying local goods as souvenirs, or just as normal expense on clothing and such.  We never travel like that, as a family.  We stay in moderately priced hotels, and eat in lower cost local restaurants, in Thailand and elsewhere.  And we've travelled a lot.  We've been to where we did those tours on our own as well, in Japan and Korea, and also visited China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Singapore, and Malaysia, multiple times each.  We've only been to Australia and Russia once, and make it back to the US from time to time.

One problem is that they probably can't really dictate who visits through marketing.  It would be nice if that was possible.  Then you could show those 5 star resorts and better restaurants in ads, and people on that page would stream into your country.  Or eco-tourism / home stays might thrive.  There's actually some chance of that, since it's a completely different theme, not just a different spending level, which is what they're trying to adjust.  Unsuccessfully; the tourism authority in Thailand has been discussing this for well over a decade, and the local consensus take is that they're not making any difference.

Tourism does thrive in Thailand.  Visitor numbers go up and down, for reasons they can't control, but it all works out.  

Legalized weed (marijuana) has been an interesting running theme, for a few years, which of course "they" (the Thai government) would see as a negative input, related to visitor type selection.  They don't want more hostel based backpackers.  Of course nothing is ever that simple, since different types of people might smoke weed, and more tourism is better, while less is worse. 

It's not as if it seems that 4 and 5 star resorts are going out of business, while hostel businesses are on the rise.  It's instead that tracking estimates of visitor spending, however accurate those may be, identify trends that are seen as unfavorable.  This is the same theme that's happening in Hawaii, so let's consider that part.

Related to Hawaii

Here's an example of the kind of article reference I had mentioned, which mixes in a lot of anecdotal accounts along with limited stats.  They can track average room rates, but visitor spending isn't something that would be well documented.  Maybe surveys help with that?

I really don't follow any related stats, so I've only seen different articles making the same kind of claims, based on similar spending estimates.  It's hard to imagine total visitor spending going down, given that room rates only go up.  The average cited is something like $400 per night (or a bit over that, which sounds kind of high, but who knows).  Resort fees, parking, and taxes keep going up, so the costs would rise, even beyond the room rate inputs increasing.

For what it's worth this is Google's AI take:

Hawaii tourism is experiencing a notable downturn, with visitor arrivals and spending dropping in early 2026. March 2026 saw a 1.7% decrease in visitors compared to 2025, influenced by severe weather, while 2025 saw sustained declines from 2024 levels. Key causes include high travel costs, a slowing U.S. market, lingering effects from the 2023 Maui wildfires, and reduced international travel.

From what I recall, beyond that article as a reference, tourist spending is either flat or else in decline.  It would make more sense to me if that was trying to capture spending beyond room costs, and maybe that is it.  From there I can only describe what I see "on the ground," since we actually live at the one edge of Waikiki.

The streets never seem empty.  You can't judge occupancy percentages that way though; if 10 to 20% less people visited we might not notice that in sidewalk traffic or beach space use.

What about visitor norms, guessing about spending levels?  The hearsay I would pass on might be of limited value, but I can still attempt that.  There are higher and lower spending level tourists, for sure, beyond almost everyone facing high room rates.  We live beside the local equivalent of a hostel, which is always full (seemingly); I guess that would be one way to drop costs.  Then again whenever we visit the Hilton Hawaiian Village, a sprawling, multi-building complex at the relative opposite extreme, it always seems to be quite full as well.  Their restaurants seem to be at capacity, and that closest beach space is packed.

One might imagine that they can see shifts in visitor origins or types (back to the problematic economic class distinctions), but it probably doesn't work out that way.  Or extrapolate from online discussion points, but again that's a mixed sample, and probably a poor reference.  

I see discussions about Hawaii and Waikiki tourism in Facebook and Reddit, and per the usual divide that breaks into two groups.  One segment isn't concerned about daily spending, which is going to be quite high, on guided tours, and going to typical Waikiki restaurants, or luaus.  The other perspective relates to complaints over a local burger costing at least $20 (which is does).  More like $30, with any drink, tax, and tip, and in a beachfront hotel restaurant that might be $60, or more, with alcoholic drinks.  It would seem strange spending $100 on a burger and a couple of drinks.  If spending a couple of extra thousand dollars on food is an issue then Hawaii isn't the place to go.

I've not seen mention of Hawaii using marketing changes to address this.  It probably wouldn't work if they tried, and it would awkward to market that higher end experiences are available, if your spending is unlimited.

We can see some broad changes in visitor origins, even guessed at from who is on the sidewalks.  Japanese tourists declined over the past 20 years, along with the decline in their economy (or even over the last 4 years).  This is where I'd add who seems to have replaced them, which groups, but I don't think that anyone's personal observations would be well-grounded or authoritative.  Even what I've just said might be questionable; maybe there are as many Japanese guests as ever.  I'm judging from people "looking Japanese."  

We sometimes take a free local shuttle, free if you have a JCB credit card, and of course almost everyone else on those are Japanese (JCB is the Japanese credit card version).  That kind of filtering makes the "general look" test unreliable, that where you happen to go changes everything.  

My own take

I don't think any tourist destinations can adjust who will visit.  Malaysia seemed to expand their tourism sector through extensive advertising, so I guess that could work (🎵 Malaysia, truly Asia🎵).

Beyond advertising there may be limited ways that these destinations could self-promote.  One example here in Waikiki has been a series of outdoor movies, shown on a main beach, for free (Sunset at the Beach).  This has been sponsored by Southwest Airlines, and I think not by local tourism agencies or government, but it's an example of something low-cost that could add appeal, especially with commercial partnership involved.  

Of course there is already plenty to do in Hawaii, lots of existing draw, but adding to that couldn't hurt.  Beyond there being more reason to visit it would seem more like visitors are appreciated, which is nice, and it can put a positive spin on local tourism support.  A collaborative arrangement for a fireworks display in Waikiki on Fridays is another example (that they're already doing); it just adds that little extra touch, to help make the thousands that tourists spent seem like a better value.

In Thailand all they would really need to do it promote local festivals that are already going on.  Those are typically framed as something locals mostly participate in, but foreigners are welcome at them, and there's nothing stopping them from framing them as a tourism draw.  

To me those are an exceptional and unique experience, and you can barely find out they're going on, on any sites or event calendars, so you really need to run across them by chance.  I suppose it's a concern that there is essentially no cost to attend those; people tend to buy food, but even those options are inexpensive, so it runs against the theme they are trying to promote, higher spending.

not exactly what I meant, but this light and sound show in Si Thep (historical area) was nice

still not what I meant, but the Bangkok Chinatown goes all-out for different themed festivals

I'd meant like a huge Red Cross event, but this small Squid Game themed festival works

this street art festival was nice, in an old part of Bangkok

that Red Cross event, which is massive, but that doesn't come across in this photo

Or I guess both places could promote marijuana tourism, since it's already happening, without them being involved?  I get it why both wouldn't want that to expand as a main part of the local image.  But they wouldn't have to spend a lot on ads referencing people getting high.  Holding a couple of related themed, medium scale events a year could explode awareness.  Local authorities wouldn't even need to hold those, they could just allow them, and businesses that are already related would take it from there.

But then both places need to sort out where it is that people are supposed to be getting high.  It's everywhere, in Honolulu, just walking down the street, but if people really are allowed to smoke on the beach or in parks they could mention that (or if they're not instead).  Or keeping it all in the grey area may make the most sense, what they already do.

In Thailand I think they have it narrowed down to people being allowed to smoke marijuana almost nowhere, only in shops that allow on-site consumption, which isn't how that usually goes (per online discussion; I've never been in such places there).  You can't smoke on the street, or generally even on an open hotel balcony.  Only partly a joke, old themes about illegal smoking are sometimes referenced online, about smoking and blowing it into a paper towel tube filled with fabric softener sheets.  Why make it both legal and also illegal?

  

In Hawaii the main problem seems to be out of control inflation, and I don't think that's under anyone's control.  They could address spiraling hotel costs by allowing Air BNB rentals (now disallowed in some zones), but with residential housing costs also spiraling that's very problematic.  Residential and retail rents seem to drive a lot of this cost increase, and there's no way to reverse that, or offset further increase.  Value will continue to be an issue, and hotels will need to trade off discounting to support high residency levels, as demand fluctuates.

Rainy times in Honolulu

 

I usually sort out some sub-theme as a pretense for writing when I move back to Hawaii (living between Bangkok and Honolulu), but I haven't this time.  I've been "here" for a month, and will go back in 6 weeks.

Rain has been the main running theme, beyond spending time with my kids always being what means the most to me.  Here they are:

The little one is going through an emotional time, fueled by hormone changes, but she was just messing around in that picture.  Here they are in a hike photo, along with two others:

the same shot as in the blog margin photo

Back in 2006 or 2007, when I was in grad school here, it rained one rainy season for 40 days, and it has been like that again, the rainiest period since then.  It has caused flooding, road damage, power outages, and brown water advisories that increase risk of swimming, from run-off outlet flow being unclean.  I don't remember us--our family--experiencing much for power outages, ever, anywhere, so it was actually kind of cool going a few hours without power, to freak out and use candles and such.

I didn't hear that there were any fatalities related to this flooding, although I guess people die in car accidents all of the time, so something a bit indirect like that could have cost people their lives, or even the limited flooding.  A potential dam failure in the north could have caused extreme damage, lots of death and destruction, but luckily it didn't.  Family friends in the east lost electrical power for over a day; that would be rougher than spending an hour playing Uno.

Maybe the main impact is that lots of people came for vacation and spent a week getting rained on, although the rainiest three weeks all had a break of a day of clearer weather in the middle.  It's not nothing, that they spent thousands to get here and couldn't do most of what they had hoped to do.  

But it's easy for locals to go past not caring much about tourists on to being resentful of them.  Why?  Because they can be disruptive, some few of them, drunk and disorderly, or guilty of littering.  They might stand on the coral (which kills it), or endanger themselves.  That I don't see as so annoying, since someone getting sucked into a blowhole, or needing to be rescued on a hike, is just par for the course in ocean resort areas.

It might be that the poorer half of all locals might struggle to cover basics, like eating, while tourists show up and are fine with paying $25 for a burger, or $10 for a coffee or juice.  It doesn't affect locals that much, since those prices were never going to be reasonable locally anyway, even outside the resort areas, but it highlights the have / have not divide, and it's easy to see outgroups negatively.

I joined the Red Cross, in part related to the disaster theme coming up, and more related to a friend mentioning doing the same.  Two or three weeks in I'm not placed in a position / support role yet, and I probably won't do much with that in the next 6 weeks.  It's not really set up for someone to live in an area for 2 1/2 months and then join in; it has a more corporate feel to it, if that makes sense.  So next I might look into supporting the central corporate management, since it relates to the work I do (with ISO systems, process, disaster planning, etc.), but apparently it's competitive just to try to volunteer, so who knows.

Usually I'm going on about local culture in these posts, about homelessness issues, or how my kids relate to local schooling.  I might not have said much about my daughter switching schools, and middle school seeming to be a much rougher place.  Lots of that wouldn't be area-specific; social themes change at different ages.  Her school is "urban," but it's not as if she's in a bad part of Chicago or LA.  Walking around that part of the city in the evening might be pushing it, but it would still be safe enough for me, just not for a younger girl.

Keo wraps up high school in a month or so; that went quick.  We've been back and forth for 4 years.  The plan was to change over employment, and after two years or so of intensive job search I gave up on that.

I've covered how this is an ethical concern before; if people move to Hawaii and work remotely that puts pressure on local housing, raising costs for everyone.  It's slightly less of a concern if you live somewhere that outsiders should be, more specifically in Waikiki.  But if we could've bought a million dollar house that could have caused an incremental demand shift, and to some extent these present conditions still do.

It reminds me of another ethical concern I've changed stances on in the past, eating a meat based diet.  Billions of animals must live in captivity now to support people's carnivorous diets, and for 17 years I didn't participate in that, beyond not being completely vegan (a little milk and eggs goes a long way towards resolving protein intake issues).  It's not a problem any one person causes, in any significant way, but altogether it leads to factory farming.  If you've ever visited such a place, a factory farm, it means more to you.  Again there isn't an easy fix, beyond the extreme solution of being vegan.  There may well be environmental trade-offs related to that too, since it's not easy to supplement your diet to be effective and complete, and production of some of substances people add to do so may cause their own impact.

Related to the other local culture themes, culture-shock, transitions in conditions locally, experiencing truly local culture, and so on, there is no news.  Trump's impact on the economy, culture, and foreign impressions of Americans also hasn't come up a lot.  We met with Canadian friends a month ago, and they said that they would no longer buy US made goods, and you really can't blame them.  It might be hard to keep track of which outrageous theme triggered that.  Trump saying that he wanted to annex Canada?  Those tariffs, or two unjustified wars?  The US is a mess.

Cue the conservative 40%, his followers, responding "don't live here then."  It's a mess whether any one person or family chooses to stick around or not, so that's about as relevant as comparing things to historical time period standards of living.  It is a little strange how entire nations have PR images, related to one part of what fell apart for the US.  Russia has been looking terrible for years now, right?  China seems more positive for not invading any of their neighbors, recently.  The bar goes lower.

The local weed booth outlet recently moved from across the alley to down at the end of the alley, making for a prompt to consider what greater acceptance of that means.  I smoked weed, when I was younger, but it's been awhile, a couple of decades.  It doesn't seem any more impactful than alcohol.  I suspect that within a couple more years the theme of long term side effects and problems will be more common, and plenty of people have already experienced that.  

Just yesterday I saw a guy with a 2 or 3 year old child buying weed there, and it didn't seem right.  Would it have seemed different if he had put a 12-pack in a cart in a grocery store?  It might have.  So that's strange, that I'm still biased myself, in spite of that background.

Some of that earlier have / have not theme enters in.  We aren't budgeted for buying those $8-10 coffees or juices, someone spending however much to be on drugs could seem wasteful, like a form of excess.  But of course that's their budget, so the critical judgment isn't well grounded.  If someone wants to spend $100 to breathe more concentrated oxygen that's on them.  We have to be careful of externalizing our own image or limitations concerns.

Having kids changes things.  People smoke weed in our street all of the time, so about one time in 10 or so venturing out you might smell it, just walking through, or maybe even a little more.  People drinking beer in our alley (soi) back in Thailand drives my wife crazy, for a similar reason.  A public street isn't the place for that kind of thing, per one normal take.  In the US eventually there would be repercussions if someone kept drinking beer in public, but with the weed it looks like smoking a cigarette, and it's completely normalized now.  Keoni mentioned there is a normal place for kids to smoke weed at school.  Strange.

Hawaii is great; I should be mentioning that.  I love the feel, the people, and outdoor experience options.  It's a great environment for our kids, even with people smoking weed, and homeless people living on most blocks.  It's culturally diverse, and people really value contact with nature, in their own ways.  Kalani just went ice skating with friends yesterday, without a lot of close parent supervision, and Oahu is safe enough that's still not a high risk.  It's shifting, and in a few more years it might seem so.  But it's nice being here for the time period that it doesn't seem outrageous for your medium age kids to be unguarded, yet.

Being rained on wasn't so bad; that's how life in the tropics goes sometimes.  Not as often as you might expect; there has probably been no corresponding rainy period like this in 19 years.  In Bangkok the monsoon season can get a little rough for a week or two, at times, but there is almost never a completely rainy month over there.  There was, about 17 or 18 years ago, in October, when it's not supposed to rain like that, and they experienced terrible flooding.  It was all pretty touch and go in the 2025 rainy season, close to being too much.  

These climate change related variations of what is normal will be even more awful in the next few years, probably.  But this last one over the last month here hasn't been so bad, unless it ruined your vacation, or destroyed your home, and then maybe it was.

More images of what has gone on this past month:

the Ala Wai, where I run; this is the outflow channel that gets over-filled during rains

view on a really early morning run from Diamondhead

hiking up Koko head, another old volcano

the view in another direction

you end up seeing Diamondhead from all over the bottom of the island

Keo lets his hair grow out

It's not the upload sound quality; you couldn't hear what she was saying.

she is also doing well

Trying high quality Dan Cong in a Bangkok Chinatown tea shop

 

I visited my favorite tea shop to pick up some tea before I travel back to Hawaii, that CNNP cake I reviewed not long ago (a 2007 8281 Mengku origin sheng pu'er), and to get a bit of tea to give to monks I know on the way out of town.

While there the owner let me try some exceptional Mi Lan Xiang Dan Cong (Chaozhou, Guangdong origin oolong, of course).  It was presented as from a single tea plant, which is possible, but you kind of never really know.  The quality was really high; it was at least one of the best Dan Cong versions I've ever tried, and maybe the best.  There wasn't that much room for improvement, only style difference.  

The pricing was eye-watering:  500 baht or $15 for 7 grams, so it's pretty much $2 / gram tea.  Too much, for an ordinary experience.  But I suppose people might see it as a unique experience they wouldn't get around to repeating, that "once in a lifetime" kind of theme.  I don't even consider such things; my tastes and appreciation are fine with drinking ordinary teas.  And I'm adapted to Bangkok pricing ranges, where you can eat a meal for a lot less than $15, or eat and also travel around all day.

To start we discussed processing, relative degree of oxidation and roast.  Kittichai, the owner, said that it wasn't in the modern very lightly oxidized and roasted form, that it was more in a medium range (for both), so a step towards a more traditional, older form.  Really whatever works best for that tea material is best, along with personal preference determining that.  It worked out.  

The scent of the tea was incredibly sweet and floral, or maybe floral and fruity, but very fragrant either way.  It didn't really come to life until he put it in a warmed gaiwan, then it did, even dry.  He was using 4 grams in an 70 ml or so gaiwan (not that I can assess volume like that).  Probably the infusions were even smaller, with the top that you don't fill and the tea taking up space.

It was bright, fresh, fragrant, and intense right away.  The taste was as fruity as floral, even though that type (Mi Lan Xiang) is described as honey orchid, and it's usually more floral than fruity.  It tasted like fresh lychee, the other owner claimed, and that was a good match, even if the power of suggestion may have helped cinch that judgement.

From there it intensified over a few rounds, really turning it up around the 4th infusion.  Sweetness was off the scale, astringency fairly moderate, although there was some, and flavor intensity was crazy.  It was really clean, with great aftertaste expression, and positive mouthfeel.  Good enough to justify the  $2 / gram value?  Who knows.  It was roughly as good as Dan Cong probably gets, although I suppose someone who has been exploring the high end of that range for awhile could judge better.

It didn't transition that much until around 9 rounds in, and then a little astringency started to pick up, which one might interpret as tasting like bitterness, even though the two things aren't the same at all.  It wasn't really pronounced until about the 10th infusion, and we let off around then, or maybe at 11 or 12.

Flavor complexity was so intense that you were just being blasted by floral and fruit range, so it might've been hard to do the normal round by round description of shifts.  If the relative balance of all that was there kept changing I didn't keep track.  It was definitely clean, sweet, intense, balanced, and complex.

I didn't mention the color; it started out with a pinkish sort of color, then I think it transitioned to a more typical light golden amber oolong range.  I'm not sure what that's about, the extra touch of pink, or if it signifies anything.

Packaging was definitely a bit much; it came in tiny aluminum canisters, like weed might be sold in, if there is such a thing as elaborately high end versions of that.  Then that was in a custom case.  This isn't so unusual for Chinese teas, presented as exceptional; they can go a little overboard.  I suppose status would be part of the appeal, drinking what is expensive, refined, and rare, and the packaging helps support that.  

Things are just different in China too.  One might expect lots of things to be rougher edged or more basic, somehow, but there's a broad higher end range of lots of types of experience or aesthetic context that's more the opposite.  Not that I've ever really been living the high life in China; I've visited that country three times, but as a value-oriented tourist (twice), and on a work trip once.  That almost leads into telling a story or two, doesn't it?  I probably shouldn't, but let's.

I went to China on business a long time ago now, maybe just over 15 years, so what I relate might be dated.  I'll skip the parts about the work context; it was somewhat IT related, since that's the field I work in, and from there it doesn't matter.  I was introduced to better tea in a Gong Fu ceremonial brewing demonstration at the company we visited (probably the one company you might think of).  

They were pretty good about not making it seem like tall, beautiful women were the norm in that country, even though they were that as hosts, and extending that not to make lots of claims about the tea brewing, hyping ancient traditional forms as being something they're generally not.  People might make wishes when they pour tea over tea pets; a fairly basic idea like that comes up.  Maybe that frog relates to money (it is holding a coin), and another to success with family, so it would be a good place / context for asking for a next child.  

Chinese people love to make wishes, as Thais do.  My wife loves to visit Hong Kong temples and go through all of that, or there are lots of Chinese temples in Thailand too.  We just happened to be walking into a local Chinese temple in Korat, Thailand, when we had just picked up Myra, our cat (then a kitten), back in 2021, so I took her in there and asked the multitude of Chinese gods to keep an eye on her.  So far so good.

 

some people might recognize this old Shenzhen mall space

Hong Kong; a temple, of course

Apparently drinking alcohol plays a role in business connections.  That's probably the last time I've been good and drunk.  The next time we met with another Chinese company I kept it bit more reeled in; it matches an expectation to go there, but it's really a bit much for me, as a non-drinker (now even more so, but mostly that back then too).

Enough stories.  Later I bought some tea in a shop, waiting for others to buy other things, and that started my next level of tea exploration.  But it was all normal enough.

Back to this tea, it was amazing.  Others would probably appreciate it a lot more than I did.  Earlier on in my exploration of teas I was really into broadening my horizons, and trying out exceptional range, and now I'm fine with just drinking good tea, and by that I mean anything with character and aspects one can appreciate.  That's most teas; they just offer different experiences.  Maybe the low end grocery store versions aren't like that, and other ranges that are comparable, but so, so much of tea range is interesting and pleasant, or at least just pleasant.

But it was nice having a unique experience.  I ran through a tasting set of pretty decent Dan Cong from ITea World a year or so ago (more now?), and it was nice trying the other types.  Mi Lan Xiang and Ya Shi / duck shit get most of the attention in "the West."  And they're often quite pleasant, so I suppose that they should, but others are also interesting.  I tried a number of them from Cindy, of Wuyi Origin, and that's a good source for exploring pretty far up the quality scale, at pricing that's quite fair for what they sell, even approaching $1 / gram.

Cindy!

Being more into sheng pu'er I don't even buy that much oolong now, of any kind.  Eventually I'll probably cycle back through a long exploration and experience phase again, but who knows how long that will take.  Good black tea is more my fallback, most often Dian Hong.  By good I don't mean searching out the high end, best of the best, I mean basic and pleasant.  And if good comparable forms are from Thailand and Vietnam I'll drink that instead, so I suppose calling that Dian Hong style tea is more accurate (DH adjacent?).

This shop sells pretty decent, upper medium quality tin packaged Dan Cong, at a much lower price point range.  That's more what I'd drink, but I only buy it there to give away to monks, to save my tea budget for the next sheng cake, or maybe black tea.

that tea I just bought, and already reviewed earlier, 2007, so perfect for getting to now