Thai and Vietnamese black tea and sheng pu'er at a Bangkok meetup

 

it wasn't this meetup; I forgot to take a picture (but this is Seth and Huyen)

I finally hosted people for a tea meetup this weekend, trying some really nice teas, that went well together as a set.  The main focus was on Thailand and Vietnam origins, but the two last versions didn't fit this post heading description at all, as aged Yunnan sheng (2004 from Dayi / Taetea), and 2020 Fu hei cha.  I took no pictures of the event or participants; that's an oversight.

The sequence of teas worked out well.  The people joining were in a good place to appreciate them, so discussion was pleasant, including range beyond tea.  This will leave those parts out, and focus on the teas, and why the order made sense.  That last part is a lot of the meaning here, about how trying a diverse range of teas can really inform the experience of everything in the set, more than a narrower theme.

In one sense these were all really good quality teas, and pleasant versions, and in another sense just basics range.  It's interesting how that works out.

101 Plantation Thai Oriental Beauty:  I've reviewed a lot of these teas, some recently, with this one reviewed here.  It's a pleasant, drinkable, very approachable place to start, tasting like honey, citrus, and cinnamon as OB tends to.  This version is pretty far up the scale as quality level for Thai OB goes, one of the better versions that I've tried.  

rolled leaf form OB on the left

That said, it still includes just a bit of green wood flavor input, and some of those positive flavors could be a little more intense, so it's just on the pretty good side of the Taiwanese range, better than average, but not comparable to the best of the best.  Which is still pretty good.  Given the price is moderate all that adds up to a cue for Thai local tea enthusiasts to order it online as soon as they hear about it, because it won't be around long.

Wawee Tea black tea:  I love this tea, which is kind of a main running theme across these versions, that they're what I like, just now and in general.  It includes plenty of cacao and fruit, with warm floral tones, and no tartness, which to me detracts from the overall experience.  The balance, sweetness level, and intensity are good, beyond that flavor profile being quite pleasant.  

I reviewed this tea in comparison with the next one we tried from Viet Sun in this post; strange it worked out that way.  I already mentioned loving both tea versions; it relates to that.  That detailed description doesn't exactly match what I'm saying here about these teas; so it can go, that you can really zero in on specifics in a combined tasting, spending an hour on just experiencing two tea versions, versus drinking them in other ways.

It's not so far off a standard Dian Hong style.  By that I mean that it includes a lot of warm mineral range and depth, and even though I've described it as including bright, intense, forward flavors--or at least that seems implied to me, as I read this.  It is as much about that depth as it is the forward range.  Which works well for me; I like that style.  With any tea experience there's an emergent "how good?" effect that relates as much to match to preference as any of these aspects or styles that I describe.  This tea version works really well for me.

Viet Sun Vietnamese black tea (Y Tý Air Dried Black Spring 2026; probably sold out now, that's generally how that goes).  

This version smells really sweet, and lots like cacao, with fruit notes coming in beyond that, and it is really intense.  It switches that focus on depth, or equal balance with warmer, deeper tones, for that blast of cacao and fruit.  But it balances just as well, just in a completely different way.  Flavors are really pronounced and clean, without a hint of anything negative, or any flaw.  This is a fantastic version of this style and form of tea.  The guests could really relate to both, and to the difference between them.  But it was time to shift theme.

Wawee Tea sheng pu'er (or since it's Thai tea just sheng, or however you prefer for designation):  in drinking "light to heavy" it could seem more intuitive to get to this tea first, because the tone is lighter.  It's bright, fresh, and intense, with lighter fruit and floral range, a bit of bitterness, and limited vegetal range.  Sweetness is great, balancing the rest.  It's a great match to what I love in drinkable young sheng, especially that overall intensity.  That's why I had us try this after the black teas instead; it's way more intense than them, even though flavor tones are lighter.  Sometimes people have trouble relating to a balance of bitterness included in a flavor set but everyone present seemed to relate well to this version.  It is approachable, not overly bitter, as some sheng can be.

It made for an interesting discussion point, about how aspects like bitterness and astringency can vary, and about why I describe factory teas as one particular thing, often in somewhat negative terms.  That came up again later, as we tried an aged Dayi (purple label 7542, from 2004).  It goes without saying that lots of teas from factory production tend to be even more intense, and less approachable, sort of "designed" for aging, even though it just works out that way.  The leaf being broken--often--lends to this harsher effect and greater intensity.  Then there's really a divide between the main producers, Dayi / Taetea, CNNP / Zhongcha, and Xiaguan, and how the rest of the smaller producers come across, which is not unified.  But that's a lot to get into here, even at the higher level summary, as we just did.

Viet Sun Y Ty sheng (I think the H'mong version, instead of the Dao):  this is my favorite of the set of Viet Sun teas I bought earlier this year, or at least it was, so it was nice trying it as well.  It's not so far off the Wawee character, but a little more refined in a sense, and intense in a different way.  I suppose the flavor profile is different.  I wasn't trying to clock specific flavor lists in this kind of tasting, especially for going through a lot of brewing details fairly quickly to keep it all moving along.  And we had a nice snack, maybe after this tea version.  There's a good local bakery in the Suan Dusit University, a main branch of the Home Bakery, that makes nice pastries, croissants, and egg tarts, and we had a nice mix.

those two Y Ty origin versions

This was one visitor's favorite; he really connected with these approachable and pleasant sheng.  Bitterness is pretty moderate for both of these versions, and intensity is significant but not challenging.  Flavor sets are pleasant; to me they are easy to relate to.  But again it was time to shift theme.

2004 Dayi / Taetea purple label 7542:  this tea is finally aged to where it should be, after 22 years in hot and humid Bangkok storage, so just a bit ahead of schedule.  It was a huge shift, moving from black tea, then light and approachable sheng, then onto well-aged sheng pu'er.  But it helped that the tea is still intense in terms of positive flavor range, and not challenging in any way.  4 or 5 years ago it would have been.  Of course it tastes like old furniture, old books, or like an old cabin in the woods would smell.  But clean; the hot and humid storage isn't as musty as one might expect.  

Specific storage areas can include that kind of input, a bit of extra fermented cardboard, or cement block.  Getting air contact right helps.  In one sense this might seem to mean very little air contact, since if you set this tea out on a shelf it would go dead.  I store the teas wrapped in either the plastic wrapper they come in, or in multi-layer packaging, or both, and then they're in storage boxes that get opened relatively regularly.  If you only opened a storage box every other month you could limit that extra inner layer of containment.  But it's more common now for people to use mylar sealing envelope type storage to keep them very contained, after conditioning to a desired level of moisture / humidity content.  It's always 70% or more humidity level in Bangkok, so it's fine, in a decent range.

This tea is pretty good; there's more I could say about that.  The people joining seemed to get that.  Where we rushed through the black teas a bit more, saving them for drinking some mixed together for a large cold-brew batch later, we did a couple of extra rounds with this.  I tried keeping proportion moderate for the two younger sheng, using longer infusion times, so we "used up" the potential for those better.  I was brewing two combined infusions ("stacked") from a 200+ ml gaiwan, mixing that to serve as a bit less than 400 ml split by 5 people; a good bit for this kind of tasting theme.

2020 Fu cake (this was the Lincang origin version, reviewed here):  I've taken to including one of two similar Fu hei cha versions, from Oriental Leaf, as a last round for tastings.  It's very different than the rest, no matter what we drink, and heavy in character, but quite approachable.  The uniqueness works well; everyone always loves the tea version, and it's one last eye-opening indicator of how much range tea can cover.  

These versions--there is a second from a different origin that's similar but different--can taste a bit like yeast or fresh bread, extending into a fresh rye or dark rye bread flavors.  There is a touch of citrus and honey from the jin hua / golden flower input.  Depth and complexity are great, and it's all way more approachable than one would expect.  It can be a little bit of a shock trying something so novel so far through a tasting experience, but it's interesting to end on that kind of surprise.

The guests really got the teas.  Two I've met at least a couple of times before, at these tasting meetups.  Two were new to Bangkok, exploring South East Asia, as many guests have been before, a bit transient.  I miss some of those people, or I suppose a lot of them.  I've been lucky to meet so many bright spirited, charming, enthusiastic, and open tea drinkers.  People bringing different perspectives helped discussion extend in interesting directions beyond just focusing on the tea.  

We talked a bit about Thai culture, the local art scene, what temples are like, differences in SE Asian countries, travel, and so on.  The subject of Japanese tea ceremony came up, but it's a lot to fully treat in depth, so as with many other tangents we only brushed through mention of a few points.  It can be problematic for the discussion to feel balanced in covering so much range in such a limited form like that, or some developed tangents can leave some guests out.  In this meetup it all really worked.  Size of the group matters; 5 of us joined, with 5 people either cancelling or being tentative and then not coming, and with 10 people it would've been much harder to manage.

we met inside instead of out here this time; it's a bit warm lately

the other garden space

fence view facing the other way, with a mango hanging, and cat checking out a squirrel

my nemesis; he eats the mango before they're even ready

Wawee Tea red / ruby oolong

 

This reviews a Wawee Tea red oolong, or more oxidized rolled oolong version.  It's a familiar type, but you really don't need to have any background with this tea type to get it.  Better versions are very pleasant and approachable.  

I compare it to a Bangkok Chinatown black tea version, from my favorite shop, Jip Eu.  I don't think they still carry it, and I don't know the details of what it is, so the point is just highlighting how completely random Chinatown tea sourcing goes.  It's a theme that gets covered in describing a recent Chinatown shop visit to another place, to K. Mui Kee Tea.  I'm fairly certain that this is from China, not local, and that's about it.

I can cite some of a description of a Wawee Tea version that may or may not be identical, since it's last year's, from their Shopee site (but now sold out):

Ruanzhi Oolong Red Tea, Spring 2025, Ruby of Wawee. This Oolong tea is 100% fermented, guaranteeing a sweet, fragrant, and smooth finish

Google thinks it knows what this is, based mostly on a Facebook page post:

Ruby of Wawee is a specialty red oolong (ชาแดงอู่หลงหร่วนจือ) produced by Wawee Tea from Doi Wawee in Mae Suai, Chiang Rai. It is crafted using traditional Ruan Zhi (Oolong No. 12) cultivars processed with a deep 100% oxidation technique, yielding a bright ruby-red liquor that bridges the gap between oolong and black tea.

#12 is really Jin Xuan, and what Ruan Zhi is turns out to be complicated.  This is about how the tea is anyway, not all of that.

Related to value, that was selling 120 grams for 580 baht ($17.50), which is great value for a tea that good.  This could be that 2025 version; I'm not sure what year it was from.

I should also mention that Jip Eu is still closed for building repairs, after a front awning section collapsed earlier.  This would be a good time to buy some tea from them through a Shopee online platform storefront, if someone is in Thailand, to support them during this transition.

Or people might think that since I don't really love this black tea that makes less sense.  Fair enough.  I have had good luck with their Wuyi Yancha, Dan Cong, and jasmine white teas as tin-presented versions, which I don't buy often for myself now, more as gifts for others, since I've sorted out where to buy other versions I'm currently hung up on.  Like Wawee Tea; I just ordered two of those, which I've already reviewed, as very exceptional sheng and black tea cakes.

Review:

Wawee ruby / red / hong oolong:  it's not really opened yet, and won't be fully opened next round either, but this is very promising.  Just the scent includes plenty of rich dried berry and spice, and the flavor does as well, but it's still thin.  The fastest way to speed this along would probably be to use a rinse, then a long first infusion time, after letting the leaves rest a little between steps.  I just started brewing it, not even using a rinse.  I'll add more next round.

Chinatown / Jip Eu shop black:  that's really unique.  It includes a good bit of tartness, which I usually don't like in black teas, but this includes so much dried fruit that it gives off a strong cranberry effect, which kind of works.  And there's quite a bit of cacao. 

I'm not loving the overall effect, due to the tartness, but it's interesting, and still somewhat pleasant.

Wawee oxidized oolong #2:  this is a great version of a "red oolong," or relatively more oxidized oolong.  That oxidation level can overlap with normal black tea range, making it an interesting category.  People sometimes use a percentage to describe it, but who knows how accurate or informative that would usually be. 

Flavor still includes dried fruit, most centered around dried cherry, or possibly blackberry, with some cacao.  The earlier spice edge has diminished and dropped back as a supporting input.  It might be complex, a hint of cinnamon, combined with even stronger nutmeg.  Sweetness, rich feel, and all the rest are very positive.  This is good; well made, pleasant, and interesting tea, well worth talking about.

Chinatown black:  flavors shift, but tartness remains the main flavor input.  For people like me who dislike tartness as a primary black tea flavor this just wouldn't match with preference.  Others would love that more, and for them it could be exceptional.  Tones warm in this, so it comes across differently.  It picks up a dark toffee sort of sweetness, and base mineral increases.  The fruit reminds me more of a tart apple this round, although of course cranberry still works as a description of part of it.  Cacao tastes like dark chocolate; often it's more along the line of hot cocoa.

Wawee red oolong #3:  this is only now fully opened up.  The flavors list is the same though:  dried cherry, some berry, cacao, and spice.  It's a nice mix of sweet, fruity and warm tones; it balances well.  You could try a lot of "red oolong" and not discover a version this positive.  But there's not much more to add in description here.

Chinatown black:  the best it has been, since tartness is easing up.  Warm tones enter in, maybe along the line of spice, or maybe even towards a dark rye bread flavor.  If someone loves tart black teas this could be an exceptional experience.  If they don't it wouldn't be good.

Oddly I can drink brewed roselle (a fairly tart tisane), and I'm fine with it.  I need to add sugar, which offsets tartness being too strong.  Maybe if I added a little milk and sugar to this I'd like it more, but I won't try that.  It's fine that it's mostly a miss for me.  If I had bought 100 grams of it I probably would explore that, and might drink most of it made that way.  I only bought some samples one day awhile back, to try something different there.

Wawee oolong #4:  the warm spice range picks up; it's as nice as it has been, and it was really pleasant before.  This should brew a couple more very positive infusions, then you could keep stretching it.

To me this is an ideal tea version to get people started on tea.  Everyone would love it, and you can't really screw it up by using the wrong brewing approach.  It would work well light or brewed strong, and using really hot water or cooler infusion would be fine (but hotter would be better, I think; there is no astringency to brew around).

Chinatown black:  the best this has been.  It works for me, like this.  Tea evolving to be better and better across rounds is a great sign for quality, but this related more to tartness fading, a normal aspects transition cycle.  Still, it's pretty good quality tea, to be this intense and pleasant 4 rounds in, with earlier rounds brewed at kind of medium intensity.

I'll drop the note taking here.  It will be interesting to see how three more infusions work out, but it won't be much of a story to tell.

Conclusions:

The Wawee Tea version was much better, but then that's not a fair comparison, since it's a relatively favorite type.  In that other Chinatown shop visit post I mention that what you find in Chinatown shops tends to be all over the map, just random, and this black tea exemplifies that.  Some people would love this, so the final result would be the opposite for them.

This Wawee Tea version is pretty solid as oolongs from Thailand tend to be.  Often you can find pleasant enough versions, but they usually lack this distinctiveness, complexity, and balance.  They often brew out a bit faster, not holding together as very pleasant through lots of rounds (the next two were also good, although it was thinning past that point).  I could definitely recommend this, to almost anyone.

To many this "red or ruby oolong" might just seem like black tea, and the oolong part wouldn't make sense.  My take is that it's processed similarly to oolong, from a cultivar used to make oolong (more often), in a rolled form like oolongs.  Mixing the two categories in the naming works; lots of people would be familiar with the general type.  It's closer to a mild, sweet, complex black tea than to oolong, as I've described.

Thai Wawee Assamica black tea and Moychay Fengqing Dian Hong

 

I'm reviewing another black tea from Wawee Tea, a sample sent by them with an order of sheng and black tea, and a Moychay Dian Hong for comparison.  Reviewing two teas helps place each, through comparison and contrast, and doubles the pace that I get through teas I'm reviewing.  A large set of samples provided by Moychay helps with that first role (many thanks for that, even though it was a thanks for helping them with some editing).

The Thai tea is presented as "Assam."  It's normal for local producers to call Assamica plant type based black tea Assam, whether the style is close to that origin range type or not.  I think they kind of mean "Assamica" by that, but it doesn't matter what they mean, the teas are what they are.  

There isn't any description of that from them, since there isn't a conventional sales site to refer to.  They would have outlets on the local online shopping platforms, on Shopee and Lazada, but people in other countries couldn't use those, and people in Thailand would often already know of those if they like that style of tea.  I order from them by direct staff contact, kind of the old fashioned way, when I see posts about something that look interesting.  This is a related Facebook page; that's where I'd see such things, in others forwarding those.  I could look this up on Shopee, but I'm not going to.

I did look up another citation of a different tea bag version on that Facebook page though, here.  

Wild Assam Black Tea with Osmanthus Flowers

This is Wawee Tea's unique blend, currently served in major hotels in Bangkok.

🍂The main ingredient is Wild Assam Black Tea, produced from centuries-old wild Assam tea trees on Doi Wawee.

Guaranteed by a silver medal award in a black tea competition. International Black Tea Competition 2019, China

🌼 Blended with Osmanthus (Guihua) flowers Authentic variety from Dali, China. Grown 100% chemical-free on our own farm.

🍃 Packaged in tea bags made from corn fiber, microplastic-free.

Brewing Instructions:  Steep the tea bag in hot water for no more than 2 minutes.  For 250 ml.

20 Baht per piece

20 baht is about 60 cents, so that should be about 15 cents a gram.  The tea is pretty good; that's fair.  Again that's an osthmanthus flavored version, that looks to be made from the same black tea base, but I don't know that, and I don't know that the pricing is identical (although there's a good chance that it is).

Those brewing instructions would probably work, but it would be a real shame to throw away that tea bag after it had brewed for two minutes.  It could surely make a pleasant second infusion.

Of course Moychay lists what their tea is, and it would be sold on an online platform, here:

Black Tea DIAN HONG CHA, Chinese tea from Yunnan Province (Red Tea), 70g, 7g  (70 grams costs 7.34 Euro, or $8.35).

Dian Hong, or Yunnan Red Tea, originates from Fengqing County, Yunnan Province, a region renowned for its ideal tea-growing conditions. First developed in the late 19th century, Dian Hong transitioned from green tea production to meet the rising demand for black tea. Its unique flavor and consistent quality have earned it recognition both in China and internationally, even being gifted as a national tea to foreign dignitaries.

Cultivated at altitudes of 1800–2200 meters in Dasi Township, Fengqing County, this organic tea is hand-picked during the spring harvest (March 25 to May 5) using the traditional standard of one bud with three leaves. The tea is made from the Mengku Da Ye Zhong cultivar, and its production involves withering, rolling, fermentation, and multiple drying steps, ensuring a rich, full-bodied character.

Dian Hong brews into a deep red infusion with a complex aroma featuring honey, fruit, and floral notes. The taste is smooth and rich, with a satisfying balance of sweetness and a slight hint of bitterness. Its long-lasting aftertaste is sweet and lingering, offering a comforting experience over multiple infusions.

Let's start with that pricing; it works out to 12 cents a gram (or it would be $12 for 100 grams).  That's pretty favorable, on the low side of the range for this type.  Maybe that implies that the quality level is moderate, or maybe it's just a good deal; it just depends.  Skipping ahead maybe a bit of both, related to writing this after doing the tasting part.

atypical presentation, compared to what I'm accustomed to

Review:

Thai  Wawee Assamica:  it's pretty good.  Warm tones match what one expect from black tea of this range, the earthiness, also covering range like redwood scent.  A bit of berry also stands out, something like blackberry, but one could imagine it being interpreted as dark cherry.  Feel is full and structured, maybe more structured than full, without dryness, or being too harsh, so that part works well.  

This would be amazing as an English Breakfast Tea replacement; a much better version of that general type.  Or maybe one category over, and just better than that, but comparable in some ways.  For the leaf material being as chopped as it is astringency is still mild.  I brewed it for around 20 seconds in a 100 ml gaiwan (for 4 grams), plenty to get it started, and it's not really overbrewed, although it looks it, quite dark and red.  

This doesn't need milk or sugar, prepared like this, but you can put milk and sugar in black tea that doesn't need it, if you brew it strong, and it can still be nice.  I was in a rush yesterday and did that, brewing their Wawee tea cake extra strong, and adding milk and sugar so I could essentially gulp it down, in a very fast breakfast.

Moychay Fengqing Dian Hong:  this is brewed a little too strong.  It's 7 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan, so 20 seconds was a bit much, even though it takes 5 to 10 for teas to generally just get completely soaked.  It has more feel structure than the other tea; I didn't see that coming.  Being brewed too strong changes that; we'll see next round.  I thought that the other tea being chopped would make it brew fast, so the 4 and 7 gram proportions might balance, since this is whole leaf.

This includes a few flavors, a set that hasn't fully integrated yet.  One part is tartness, not a personal favorite in black tea range, but it can come up.  Another is fruit; that I do love.  It includes some of that conventional black tea range, I guess oriented towards malt, which I probably should've used as a description for the other one.  It seems to include a hint of black pepper; that's interesting.  Then there is also some roasted yam, or something along that line.  Maybe sweet potato instead?  Or both, combining.

It sounds quite complex, and it is, but the flavors don't combine and integrate well just yet, and there's a thinness in one part of the flavor or character profile I can't pin down.  It all might just relate to it getting started, not being there yet.  In retrying the other I'm not really noticing malt, but it seems I did miss cacao.  It will be interesting to see how it develops.

Wawee Assamica #2:  these are both all but flash brewed, using a very short infusion time, but both look kind of dark red.  This extracted faster, per the color and darkness, but we'll see.

It's actually pretty light.  It's unusual drinking this style of tea light, more of a conventional black tea, but it works, beyond not matching a brewing norm.  There's plenty of flavor, but the feel seems light.  The feel that is present works, including some richness and fullness.  Flavor includes cacao and whatever berry range that is.  This is almost a Christmas blend flavor profile, without any adjustment from other flavors.  Add some orange peel rind and cacao nibs to dial up the fruit and cocoa flavor and it's there.  Of course it's already fine as it is.

It can be hard to notice what is missing.  This doesn't taste like malt, and tea of this character would usually include much rougher astringency.  It's quite good, for the style and presentation.

Moychay Dian Hong:  this is slightly stronger, in a more conventional range, but then it is brewing 7 grams instead of 4.  I didn't adjust timing, beyond pouring the second gaiwan out first, when it had been filled second.  Tartness is dropping out already, it seems.  Even though it's really subtle that limited pepper note is cool, adding a nice effect.  Roasted yam or sweet potato is a main flavor now.  It's hard to settle on it being just one of those, even though they are different.  It's not as distinct a flavor as it could be.

Related to comparison to Dian Hong I'm familiar with this is fine, but something is missing.  It doesn't include a depth of feel, and a heavy mineral base input, to the extent those often do.  Often some versions will lack flavor intensity while they express that depth, which can seem a little strange, although that can be pleasant if you are accustomed to it.  

I experience that as a gap in what I expect.  You get a good hit of up front flavor, and it trails after some as aftertaste, but the feel just isn't there, and some flavor depth is missing.  I'm not saying that the other version includes all of that, but it covers a normal range better, so to a very limited extent it is.  But it's not a tea that could pass for a good version of Dian Hong either.  I'll push both a little more going back to a 15 to 20 second infusion, and see where they stand further along the cycle.

Thai Wawee Assamica #3:  this is holding up pretty well, for tea that I freed up from a tea bag.  The character isn't different enough to go back through it again; it's just a stronger version of what I experienced the last round.  The balance works, how it all comes together.

Moychay Dian Hong:  this is the best this has been.  Feel thickens, and mineral base picks up; that's more like it.  The black pepper note is stronger.  Or is that white pepper?  It might be.  A touch of berry like range adds to the roasted yam / sweet potato, giving it more flavor complexity, which works well with the richer feel.  

This still isn't a personal favorite style of Dian Hong example, for me, but it's much closer.  A bit of cacao and a little more sweetness would really tie the rest together better.  But it integrates the best it has, and it's fine like this.  Very limited tartness isn't as problematic (I just don't like tartness), but it's more shift in the wrong direction.

To be clear Dian Hong is my favorite black tea type.  It's very familiar.  Versions from South East Asia can be just as good, and can match typical Yunnan style very well, or they can also vary, a lot.  There are outliers in Yunnan versions and styles too.  This is sort of conventional, sort of not, in two different senses.  It lacks typical depth, mineral range isn't as pronounced as it usually would be, and the tartness isn't typical at all.  But the other flavor range is right, and the lack of harsh astringency, the tea being full but not rough or dry.  They generally don't taste malty, and this doesn't.

At this stage I like the other tea a little better.  The tartness alone might swing that balance, or it all just integrates a little better.  It's not nearly as good as the black tea cake I bought from them; for someone with my preferences it would be as well to skip this tea and just buy that.  But then this is a different thing, and for a tea to go, the tea bag form it came in, it would work well, much better than anything Twinings or similar producers make.

Both teas, infusion #4:  the Wawee tea thins a little, but then it has been a challenge brewing 4 grams of broken leaf well.  It's still good.  The Dian Hong is still the best it has been, picking up a little more depth and complexity.  

It's an overall good sign that it improves across rounds; better quality tea will do that, while lower quality versions express their best range early on, and then die.  Or maybe that also relates to material type; low elevation grown plantation tea should be more intense at first, then fade, and higher elevation or more natural grown tea tends to have more durability.  Sometimes older plant material teas can lack exceptional flavor intensity but express a lot of depth.

In the round after these, #5, the Thai Wawee tea was really dropping off, and the Dian Hong wasn't, kind of as one might expect, that whole-leaf tea would brew out slower.  But again it's also a good sign for the Dian Hong quality level.

Conclusions:

Both were pretty good.  Both had their own limitations.  For comparing to standard tea-bag tea, chopped material range versions, the Wawee tea was exceptional, but it's an odd starting point competing in that range.  It was better than that; it was fine as a conventional specialty tea.  But I suppose it could have been even better as a more whole leaf version.

The Moychay version I judged more negatively for coming into the tasting with a lot of expectations about Dian Hong style and character range.  It was good, but some early lack of some range (mineral taste, feel depth), and inclusion of tartness, seemed a lot more negative for me expecting it to be a certain way, to be different.  It's not necessarily that it compared negatively to the other version, but the other Wawee tea was better in a couple of ways.  And the Moychay tea was superior in other ways; it held up better to an infusion cycle, and came to express more complexity and depth than the other, in "later" rounds (this was a pretty short infusion sampling cycle).  

If I had to pick one that I liked more it would be the Thai tea, but they were both fairly equivalent, and that was about preference for specific flavor range, not quality.  Maybe the Moychay Dian Hong was a little higher in quality level, in spite of it also being limited in some ways.

I've been trying such exceptional teas lately that any that seem good but not great might come across as more limited to me now.  These were both good.  For anyone that actually likes a touch of tartness in black teas the Dian Hong review might seem wrong; too negative.  And without specific expectations about feel and mineral base flavor going in it could seem all the more positive.  

Dian Hong drinkers would know what I'm talking about, and anyone new to tea reading this might think it's all nonsense.  Trueness to type expectations aren't really a made up thing, but they do extend how people experience tea into an abstract range, moving beyond "how good; how pleasant?," into "does this match what I expect?"

The Moychay tea is a really good value, for as pleasant as this is.  It may not work well for spending an hour just focusing on it, for me, for it missing my main personal preference range by a couple of aspects, but this would still be a great breakfast tea.  For someone with different black tea preference it may seem much better than that.

Viet Sun Y Ty air dried 2026 black tea and Wawee Tea 2026 black

 

Viet Sun T Ty black on the left, in all photos

Continuing on with Vietnamese and Thai themes I've been covering, this time it's about Viet Sun and Wawee Tea black teas.  These two versions were really exceptional.  I mean so good.  Enough with the spoilers; I'll cite some product details from their sites (or for Wawee, I'll try to turn up a Facebook page post info), and get to the review.

Y Tý Air Dried Black Spring 2026  ($21 for 100 grams, $47.50 for 250)

A really nice black tea made in the hot air dried style from one of our favorite tea areas, Y Tý.

Made from medium, old and ancient trees in the Dao village, this tea brews up into a rich copper red soup. Floral, sweet, with a malty chocolate, honey character and a low-medium roast. Rich mouthfeel and long finish.

Season: April 2026

Picking Standard: 1 bud, 2-3 leaves

Region: Y Tý, Lào Cai

Elevation: 1300-1800mn

Would that really have a low-medium roast input, versus just a moderate amount of oxidation?  It doesn't matter.  I probably should have read between the lines and ordered that instead of the sun-dried version that I just reviewed.  It is really nice.  The other might change for the better, given that style, but this one might still gain some depth, and it's really nice now.

Related to value around 21 cents a gram is pretty fair as pricing goes now.  Awhile back you could buy pretty decent Dian Hong for 15 cents a gram or less, but I would imagine that has shifted, as all tea pricing has.  You would be lucky to buy tea this good at whatever price it is.

There is no information post on the Wawee Tea Facebook page, as there had been for the sheng version.  It's Thai material black tea; that's all that you need to know.  I'm describing it as being made in a style similar to Yunnan Dian Hong, but that kind of judgement doesn't add much.  That generaliztion comes across differently in relation to this other Vietnamese version being a dead ringer for Dian Hong character, and flavor aspect range.

I can share their FB page cake wrapper, since it seems I forgot to take a picture of that:

That pricing relates to about $30 for 200 grams, so $15 for 100 grams instead of 21 for the Viet Sun version.  But that's Thai pricing; Viet Sun is a Western facing vendor instead.  As with the Viet Sun whether you buy the tea for 15 or 21 cents a gram you are still lucky if the tea is this good.  There are plenty of vendors out there selling teas nowhere near this good for 50 to 70 cents a gram, either making up stories to back that, or maybe some interesting stories are real, but the tea still isn't this nice.

Review:

Viet Sun Y Ty:  this is really more what I have in mind related to Dian Hong style teas, than the sun dried version I just had.  But then those pick up intensity with age, and tend to be oxidized a little less initially, so it's not fair comparing two brand new versions.  This is still really nice.

A pleasant roasted sweet potato note stands out, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to interpret the rest as tasting like cacao, but that's a judgement call.  Sweetness is good, and feel is fine, even though it's barely getting started.  It's going to be hard for the Thai version to compare well to this.

Wawee Tea black:  this is holding its own, so far.  It's completely different.  Tones are much warmer, and flavor complexity is harder to unpack; it's not just a couple of very pleasant main notes.  Dark cherry is part of it, and something like a cured wood or incense spice tone.  Often when I'm mentioning that it's about a limitation in the flavor set, but it works well in this.  It has a lot of depth, especially for just getting started.  Maybe some of the other range is spice oriented, even towards root spice or medicinal spice.  A warm mineral base is pleasant.

If judging at this stage which I like better, which is still too early to call, I'd have to go with the first version.  That standard, pleasant, well-balanced Dian Hong style is a personal favorite.  But the Thai version expresses more depth and complexity, so far, and everything it expresses is pleasant.  This should be a great comparison tasting.

I've got the proportion wrong, including less of the loose Vietnamese version, because it's hard to judge when one is loose and the other compressed.  I'll add a touch more, which will throw off how the transition cycle plays out over the next round or two.  I usually work around that by adding what looks normal to me, and it always veers back to 8 grams or so, but I tried to back off the proportion of the first, and didn't do so in the same way for the second.

VS Y Ty #2:  roasted sweet potato and cacao stand out again.  Or maybe that's yam instead, or maybe it's transitioning from sweet potato to yam.  You get the idea.  Mineral depth is pleasant; that really gives it balance.  A somewhat high sweetness level also works well with the rest.  Feel is nice, with decent fullness.  It's not dry but it also doesn't lack some feel structure.  A warmer and heavier flavor edge tastes like a touch of coffee, which mixes with the mineral range, and supports the rest.  It's really good.

Wawee:  it changed quite a bit; I would've expected that.  It's picking up a brandy-like flavor input, which is more or less the dominant flavor already.  Another part tastes like a bark spice, just not cinnamon.  Warmer mineral gives those pronounced flavors balance.  There is still fruit, more or less still in the range of dried black cherry, but it's secondary to the other range now.  Just a touch of tartness integrates well with that particular fruit range.  Ordinarily pronounced tartness makes black tea unpleasant, to me, but in a very limited amount it can be good, especially when it integrates well with the rest.

This tea is more intense than the other; the taste is stronger, and it carries over to aftertaste more.  It spans more range; it's more complex as well.  The other expresses a little more depth; there's something about it that seems to convey a deeper, more grounded taste experience.  Maybe that relates to the mineral input, or maybe it's an emergent effect that's mainly in my own interpretation, instead of the aspects themselves.

It occurs to me to keep mentioning how I like both in comparison to each other round to round; usually reviews never include that.  The Thai tea might be better in a couple of senses but the Vietnamese version really matches a style I love, so I'd go with that.  I would guess that this Thai tea is far from finished though, that it will keep evolving and changing, and will brew a long cycle, so it may seem better in one or two more senses before it's over.

back in this Bangkok home tasting space

Ina, that Siamese cat, has a cool look, but all of our cats do

VS Y Ty #3:  the warmer tones shift a little; what had been mineral and a vague earthy input changed to be closer to leather.  In a good sense; the warm and sweet tone of a new bomber jacket material, not the musty and harsher scent of older horse saddle.  Cacao stands out more than ever.  Flavor intensity is kind of in a normal range, but depth adds to the experience, in a way that's hard to describe.  For people who drink Dian Hong (Yunnan black tea) that description would already be quite familiar.  

Wawee:  fruit picks up.  It's still black cherry, but it has expanded quite a bit in range, so it's that plus something else, or more than one other thing (a little citrus enters in, and something like butternut squash flavor joins the rest).  The tartness has almost entirely dropped out.  The form of that fruit is intense, sweet, and complex, taking on a fruit roll-up sort of character.  

Incense / bark spice and mineral tone have moved into a supporting flavors role.  At this point the Wawee tea is better, per my subjective judgment, and I suppose if one tried to claim some sort of objective assessment form probably better in that sense too.  Compression level was too high in a version of this I bought 2 or 3 years ago, which really did impact the experience of it, but they've got it just right for this cake, loose enough that it comes apart easily using a pu'er knife (or pick, or whatever, maybe even just your fingers).

I've been brewing these relatively quickly, because the intensity was fine for that for both.  I might go a little longer to see what changes, from 10 seconds or so up to more than 15, or close to 20.

These are both really exceptional black teas.  I've tried some pretty good black tea versions over the past few years and both hold their own with any of it.  I've tried a lot more range over the decade prior to that, or even 15 years, but it's harder to use older experiences as a reference.

VS Y Ty #4:  it really didn't change much, for being brewed just a little longer.  Heavier mineral flavor input occurs; that's normal.  Feel comes across as thicker and richer, but it was already ok anyway.  The feel hasn't been exceptional, but the range was positive, and it supported the overall experience.  It contributes some aftertaste experience, broadening the overall effect, but not so much.  

The main positive is that the flavor range is a personal favorite, and there is nothing like a flaw in this.  Flavor intensity could be higher, but a black tea version expressing limited complexity and intensity but good depth seems to also work, for me.  The flavors a tea does express need to be what one likes, and to match well, in such a case, but that's true for me for this.  I could probably drink a kilogram of this tea, and not tire of it.

I'm probably making this sound like a basic, simple, limited intensity tea version more than really applies to it.  It is expressing some roasted sweet potato or yam flavor, something along the line of cinnamon, and depth that reminds me of root spice, along with pleasant mineral range.  It only seems to lack complexity and intensity in comparison with the other version, which is an unusually strong and complex tea.

Wawee:  the fruit effect changed again.  Now it's closer to elderberry, an interesting range.  It is a stronger tea, across most dimensions.  Flavor range is stronger, flavor complexity is broader, feel is more pronounced, and aftertaste expression is much stronger.  In part that could be because it's from better tea plant material, but it's also more completely oxidized (it seems; the leaves are a little darker, and it brews darker).  I'm not saying that to move on to claiming that the other Vietnamese tea has more aging potential, but it probably does.  It could also just be a different style.

For people into free-associating a mix of different flavor aspects there's a lot for starting points in this Thai tea version.  I do enough of that in these text reviews, but when I drink tea for my own experience only I just go quiet, and accept the experience without analysis.

This is probably a good point to leave off with notes.  These will shift a little more over two more infusions, probably with the Thai version changing more, and maintaining more intensity.  Both teas will be similar though.  

Trying the next round confirmed this.  The Thai tea is finally losing just a little intensity, and it took a round off transitioning in flavor character, with the Vietnamese tea holding up to the same earlier level of intensity and depth.  It might be that the Vietnamese tea can keep going longer for brewing out slower, that the trade-off for the Thai version was that the first 4 or 5 infusions might be better (in a limited sense; preference determines that), and stronger, but that it can't keep that up for as long.

Both are great.  Anyone would be lucky to cross paths with one of these teas.

I'm reminded of holding a tea tasting a decade or so ago, letting the guests try a black tea like one of these.  One commented that they didn't know that they liked black tea until they had that experience.  I looked back through posts to see when that was; it was here, in 2017 (and it was a Farmerleaf sun-dried Dian Hong).  I had covered a lot of ground by then, in four years of writing this blog.

In case it seems that I'm exaggerating these experiences, that every tea is just fantastic all of the time, I can point out that the last two sheng that I tried were quite good, high in quality level, distinctive, and positive, but more limited in relation to a match to my own preference.  Now with these black teas we're back to everything being just great, including that part. 

I have more ordinary versions of tea on the way; that will shift again.  In an online discussion someone mentioned that a standard, budget oriented, blended version was pretty good, from a producer I had tried teas from before, so I'll be covering a little of that range soon.  Not really low cost factory tea, but towards that theme.

one of the two other cats

Timmie with her sister

Wawee Tea 2026 sheng (Thai pu'er-style tea)

 

I'm reviewing a tea version that's an old favorite, Thai sheng from Wawee Tea.  It's what Thai sheng should be:  high in quality level, made from great material, distinctive, pleasant in flavor, and intense.  There probably isn't much tea coming out of Thailand like this, and essentially no other versions I'd probably like more (although Aphiwat's is really nice too).  

I love the style.  Others might or might not; it would just depend on preference.

There's not a website post to cite, but I can mention their Facebook page post about it, from their FB page:

The long dry spell from winter to April has resulted in this year's tea having a richer, more fragrant flavor.

The tea wrapping paper features tribal patterns from the villagers of Wawei, who are the main workforce helping us harvest the tea leaves.

Raw Pu-erh Tea (生普洱), Spring Tea Season 2026

100% from large-tree tea (古樹茶)

200 gram compressed cake

990 THB per cake, 5 cakes in a bamboo bundle 4,950 THB

It seems like I should be gatekeeping this.  They don't sell overseas anyway, per my understanding, so I guess mentioning this is for Thais, or people who live "here" (since I'm in Bangkok again now).

Them selling that for around $30 for a 200 gram cake is an example of local Thai pricing; in a Western facing outlet it would be more.  I just bought pretty good Vietnamese tea for around double that from Viet Sun, and this tea holds its own against that.  Maybe in terms of my preference I like it a little more; it is a personal favorite.  

At least my blog is read by a lot more AI bots than humans; that will help reduce the potential exposure impact.  Maybe I won't share links to this as much to keep going in that direction.

Review:

First infusion:  a little strong, because I gave this over 30 seconds to get it started, so I'm not writing about how it will really open up next round.  It's good.  There's plenty of fruit flavor, some vegetal range, and a good bit of astringency structure, but of the right type.  Bitterness stands out.  This is just how it should start.  It'll work better to do a flavor list and say more about the rest next round, in a typical faster infusion.

Make no mistake though, you can tell this is really nice right away.  Intensity is right, sweetness is great, and flavor range is just what you would hope for.  You don't find teas like this by accident.  Years of looking in the right kind of places have to come together, after looking in the wrong kinds of places.  You can frame that as karma if you like, that spiritual forces are looking out for you.  It doesn't change much if you do.

Second infusion:  a 5 second infusion brews just as strong; that's how this should be.  Intensity stands out most.  At times you run across older plant source material that's more subtle, but with great depth, that's really approachable, but that lasts for lots of infusions, and changes in positive ways.  This isn't that.  It's intense from the start.  Fruit stands out, it's just hard to say which.  It's along the line of lychee or mango, or it could be a sweet form of pineapple.  

Vegetal flavor is there, a green wood sort of range, or maybe that could map to something else, like bitter melon.  I've been eating a lot of bitter melon, from our garden in Honolulu, and you mostly taste bitterness from that.  This is bitter, but to me the type and level is great.

Depth, intensity, balance, aftertaste expression; it's all great.  To be clear this is at least partly because I already love their style of tea.  I've drank at least a couple of cakes of this, and it's fantastic getting back to it.  I like it young too, like this, not necessarily transitioned by age, but this would be really good over the next few years, as it keeps changing.  

If I tasted the same green wood / vegetal input in a different context I wouldn't like it.  But to me it integrates perfectly with the rest, and adds to a very intense overall experience, that is just how it should be.  I've been drinking some of Aphiwat's tea as 2 or 3 year old versions, ones I've had around, and it's much approachable after the transition, but I don't like it as much.  It's down to personal preference.  

I finished this round a couple of minutes ago and the sweetness really lingers along my tongue, that had transitioned from bitterness; it's partly about that.  You can emphasize this kind of experience by drinking water between rounds; it comes across as very sweet.  But it's also nice to let the experience build up in your sense of taste, getting stronger and stronger.

Third infusion:  I can't really unpack that fruit input more; it's still either lychee or mango, but seemingly a mix of a lot of related tropical fruit input.  Warmth seems to pick up a little.  Sweetness and intensity are still great, of course.  This really hits your palate hard, in a good way.  Only a sheng drinker would love this bitterness level as I do.  Some sheng is even more bitter, but this is pronounced.

To me this is the kind of tea you can have every day for as long as you want, for weeks.  The experience is so positive that it doesn't get old.  I suppose that has more to do with a status of being a favorite than how general character themes play out.  

A good black tea is much more approachable, and in some sense it would make more sense with food.  I'll very often have this kind of tea with food, intense young Thai sheng, along the line of what I ate today, scrambled eggs with spinach and a Thai vegetable plant leaf, and a mix of orange, banana, and papaya.  More often I'll add a starch input, a croissant or some other pastry, but lately I've been letting that drop.  Yogurt with the fruit is also nice, and that protects your stomach.  I feel ok without having included it, just now.

Fourth infusion:  warm tones might pick up further, and this might be even more intense.  I walked around looking for the cat between infusions, noticing that the aftertaste never really drops out, it stays with you.  

Fifth infusion:  this isn't changing much, and certainly isn't fading.  Feel might be picking up some extra richness, and the fruit has transitioned to a slightly different complex fruit range.  It's a little towards that juicyfruit gum flavor.  It would make sense for a natural interpretation to include citrus, a bright version of it, in between lemon and tangerine.  Or maybe just to see it as tangerine.  Intensity is still nice, but that depends on someone loving bitterness--at this level--and intensity.

they were running free all morning, but she was messing with them a little too

they're all so cute, but that darkened face look is really something

Sixth infusion:  I haven't mentioned an inconsistency in the coloration of the leaves.  Parts were probably left exposed to wither longer, or may have been crushed while being picked, leading to faster oxidation.  Or inconsistent heating could roast some a little.  The two effects would be different, and if both occurred then complexity would enter in, which I guess someone could interpret as coming at a cost.  But the complexity of this tea is a strength, as I see it.  Intensity definitely also is; if those somewhat atypical inputs changed character they certainly didn't limit how intense the experience is.  They might even give it a nice balance.

It could have more warm range than it ordinarily should, for at this age.  But that's a good thing; it all matches and integrates well.  It's definitely not missing brighter range, or sweetness.  I drank a cake that was a lot like this pretty fast 2 or 3 years ago, from them, loving it so much that half my tea drinking rotation was that version.

Seventh infusion:  this is finally losing a little intensity, but that really only brings it into a more normal range.  I'm still brewing it really fast, around 5 seconds.  I've pushed the infusion proportion, which is normal for me, maybe at 8 grams for a 100 ml gaiwan, or it could even be 9.

Warmth picks up.  That has been a gradual trend for the past 4 or 5 infusions.  Feel structure is really nice, less sharp and edgy than initially, but it was never really negative.  Now it's richer, more full, but still intense.  

Fruit is pretty heavy on citrus.  I'm surely missing a lot of potential association for the flavors; this is complex.  Mineral effect probably keeps shifting.  That's probably a lot of what is causing me to perceive that the tone as warming.  It was probably bright and lighter mineral range earlier on, and now it's on to warmer tones, not completely unlike tasting a copper penny.  Probably an interpretation of the main range as including floral tone is reasonable, maybe jasmine.

Eighth infusion:  I let this go for over 15 seconds to try it stronger, but I think I know how that will work out.  It's just a little more intense, and back to potentially challenging.  Astringency pairs with a mineral tone in a way that's a bit much, but the effect is still quite pleasant.  It's this kind of intensity that differentiates pu'er from other tea types.  You can't brew other types to draw it out at this level even if you wanted to, and with young sheng you are often brewing around it, using different form to limit it.  It's delicious, and the overall experience is great.

This is exactly how I hoped this tea would be.  It's nice when it works out like that.  In some cases teas can be even better than you hoped, more novel, or positive in a different way, but I wouldn't want this to be different in any way.

Ninth infusion:  some of this tea seems to be exhibiting the "brewed out" green wood bitterness and astringency aspect, but it seems like different leaves that are processed differently might be transitioning and reacting differently.  It's still quite good, but that will probably keep picking up, and it will be less pleasant after the next couple of rounds.  It has been a nice infusion cycle though.

I did drink this tea again the next day, the day I'm editing this.  It was nice not giving any thought to a flavor list breakdown, or other aspects, and just enjoying it.

Comparing 2016 and 2017 Vietnamese and Thai sheng versions

 

I've been going on and on about how some South East Asian sheng versions don't have the right character to age well, and here's a chance to look into that further.  One sample Steve of Viet Sun passed on with an order from them, and another Wawee Tea passed on with an order from them (many thanks to both!).  Let's see how they are.

It's interesting considering vendors' takes on teas, which I typically never review prior to making tasting notes, as I didn't this time either.  Here's the Viet Sun listing:

Thượng Sơn 2016  (selling for $98 for a standard 357 gram cake; not bad)

A really nice tea from Thượng Sơn, Hà Giang made in the spring of 2016.

This along with the Thượng Sơn 2022 tea really showcase just how special the Thượng Sơn terroir is.

This tea was made from the same plus a couple of adjacent ancient tree gardens as the Thượng Sơn 2022 and was processed in a smiliar manner.

This tea has been aging in climate controlled storage (around 24-27 degrees Celsius and 70 degrees humidity). It still retains its heady alpine fragrance but has taken on some pleasing camphor and fragrant wood/ caramel notes. Heavy sweetness and low-medium bitterness/ astringency.

Rich huigan and strong qi. Nice tea for evenings and cooler days.

I enjoy drinking this one along with its 2022 counterpart to really get an idea of the transition from the new tea to its current state.

Interesting!  Specific interpretation never matches between people passing on impressions but that does match my general take on the tea.  It was good; more complex, intense, and positively transitioned than I expected, by a good bit.

I couldn't find any sort of product listing for the Wawee version, and search only brought up this Instagram mention of it:

Wawee Tea 2017 sheng (Pitakvavee Series):

Raw Pu-erh tea, aged 7 years.

Net weight 357 g.

The taste is very sweet and juicy.

So they were selling this as cakes, even though the sample they sent me hadn't been pressed, it was maocha / loose.  "Sweet and juicy" isn't much to go on, but I can see if that matches.  I've already reviewed this tea, so I know what to expect; here it's more for a point of comparison with the other.  

It had aging potential; it's not going to be a version that just fades away, or starts to just taste like wood, as some versions can.  I already knew that it was good, and pleasant to drink at this age, even though I end up speculating that this aging  / fermentation stage might not be optimum.

Review:  

Thuong So Spring 2016 sheng:  interesting!  Warm mineral base stands out first, and a complex feel structure.  This is barely started infusing, so these will just be initial thoughts.  It's pretty far through aging transition.  Seven years is awhile, but it can just depend on storage conditions, and this was fairly tightly pressed.  I've tried decade old sheng that wasn't nearly as far through transition, surely stored under drier conditions.  

The general character of this is fine, as it should be, not a case of a sheng version seeming to fade or oxidize more than it fermentation transitions.  Feel might include a little extra dryness.  It's as well to hold off on flavor list and other judgments until next round.  I can add that I've tried a purple leaf version that was among the driest in feel of any teas I've ever had recently, a Yunnan sheng version, and this isn't completely unlike that, just not nearly as intense (that related dry feel).

Wawee Tea 2017 sheng (Pitakvavee Series):  much lighter, just in appearance alone.  A different mineral base stands out in this, a drier version, which also includes some warm tones.  This is going to be a mineral intensive session!  Complex flavors and some sweetness is already developing, even though this is barely started.  It seems warmer toned than the color implies that it would.  Feel has more conventional sheng astringency structure than the other version.

Vietnamese sheng, round 2:  brewed tea color evened up in the two versions quite a bit; interesting.  There are inconsistent colors in this tea version.  The other leaves vary some in color but not like this.

A slight mustiness from storage input (probably) stands out.  This is going to infuse and transition differently related this being a hard pressed cake, versus the other maocha.  After next round it will be completely wetted but the layered sheets of leaves only came apart so much initially.  As a result flavors that would typically transition through over the first two rounds could last into the fourth.

The dryness eases up already, but it's still a dominant aspect.  Even next round may be early to determine how this aged, what it might have been like initially, and what potential for further transition remains.  Then it's always odd trying teas as 6 and 7 year old versions, really right in between an early 3 or 4 years of transition being favorable and a fuller 15 to 20 year cycle being the next stage it makes sense to experience.  I just reviewed two Dayi 7542 versions in a similar age range for the same purpose, to become accustomed to that middle level aging range, to compare versions.  Both of these are as soft and approachable as Tie Guan Yin oolong compared to those, a completely different range of tea.  Better luck with flavor list breakdown next round, or the one after.

Thai sheng:  this is moving through an infusion transition cycle much faster so any direct comparison would be more about that, related to this being maocha, to being fully wetted.  It's pleasant.  A broad and intense mix of mineral tones stand out, with limited bitterness, moderate but nice sweetness, and other complex flavors.  

I think listing flavors next round will still make as much sense, once early round transitions are completely settled out.  It tastes of age already, on to old books or furniture related flavors, a bit ahead of schedule.  Maybe that's from storage conditions input, that these were stored in a wood paneled room environment?  Spending years in a place with lots of very old tea might have entered in as well.

Vietnamese #3 (brewed a little lightly; it seems time to ease up on intensity):  complexity keeps ramping up, and the clean character shines through (not that it was musty before, but it picks up depth and richness, and that early dryness is dropping out fast).  This is quite nice.  

Lighter tones pick up; that's interesting.  A hint of something along the line of lemongrass or citrus shines through.  It joins plenty of warmer tones, tied to earlier character.  Mineral is still a strong base but moderate now, more integrated.  I bet a medium strength infusion next round will show completely different character again, which is always an interesting experience, lots of transition that includes adding complexity and overall improvement.

Thai:  this becomes more complex too, and also softens some, the transitions just aren't as dramatic as for the other, since it started brewing faster.  A green wood tone stands out.  It probably sounds better to describe that as a mix of warm and also light mineral base coupled with spice range, identified and broken apart a bit more.  The aged character aspect faded some already, but it's still present.  

There is no challenging range, as with the 7542 versions I just reviewed, but some edgier feel and flavor range is somewhat comparable, just as such a more moderate level that it's not as much something to endure, or struggle to brew around, as is true of 6 or 7 year old 7542 versions.  I'm not sure this is at a fermentation transition stage that makes the most sense, that it wouldn't have been better 3 years ago, or wouldn't be even better yet in another 10.  

This tea has (/ had) aging potential; that was and is true of both of these teas.  They're just on a completely different cycle than those more intense Yunnan factory sheng, which need a full 20 years of somewhat humid storage (moderate or high) to draw into a more fully aged range, where after 20 you might want to leave it sit a few more years to see how it keeps changing.  Related compounds in these teas will also change over a 20 to 25 year cycle, but they're drinkable now, at 6 or 7 years along.  Not optimum now; not even close, probably.

Vietnamese, #4:  this is really hitting it's stride.  The balance of all the aspects works so much better than early rounds.  That's not unusual; often the first couple of rounds of a sheng can seem edgy or not developed yet, and harder pressed versions that didn't separate as well might take an extra round.  The same aspects are present but it's just much more pleasant and well-balanced.  Dryness is all but gone, related to being a dominant aspect early on, falling back to fill in a decent feel structure, that comes across as rich and almost sappy (not quite, but towards that).  Mineral and other rich flavor tones fill in, with a brighter and lighter range integrating and complementing that.  

It doesn't "break apart" easily.  A richer tone might be along the line of a warm spice input, or that and also including something like dried tamarind.  The lighter range is subtle, easy to miss, but that leans towards citrus, or maybe lemongrass works better.  It's funny how there's a lot going on but it comes across as all one thing, as an integrated set.

Thai:  this is the best it has been yet too; both of these teas don't disappoint.  A light, dry mustiness is all but completely faded now, integrated with the rest as a secondary input.  Warm, rich tones dominate.  What had seemed a little like green wood last round has transitioned to a more aromatic wood tone, close to spice range, along the line of cedar.  People don't seek out cedar flavor as a favorite in sheng experience but it works in this, balanced with the rest.  

Mind you both of these are not peaking at this point in transition, per my interpretation and preference.  This is about judging style and potential as much as drinking these for the best aging input representation of these teas.  I'm going to skip guessing how humid and warm the conditions were where these were stored; maybe I could make sense speculating about that, but it probably wouldn't add much, or be informative.  

[later edit:  Steve added that the Vietnamese version was naturally stored, in conditions relating to whatever occurred outside, for two years, and then was in controlled storage the rest of the time, from 24 to 27 degrees held at 70% humidity.  There's a good chance the Thai version was naturally stored, at that humidity during the wetter season and a good bit drier otherwise. 27 is air conditioned indoor temperature in Bangkok--around 80 F--but I think up north that can be more of a normal temperature range, and it tends to get much cooler at night].

They're both not the lighter, sweeter, less structured style of sheng that I keep referring to, versions that you should either drink brand new or within 3 or 4 years of aging.  Maybe they were fine back then but they still have potential to age transition positively.  They give up plenty of intensity to standard factory sheng versions, to Dayi numbered series teas or Xiaguan, but then what doesn't.  That's not necessarily a clearly good or bad thing; it depends on preference, and on a final aging result outcome.

Vietnamese, round 5:  it is about time to stop drinking these but I might make it through one more round after this one, the one I regret for going too far.  

This is quite pleasant.  It's interesting how dryness and aged flavor input really stand out immediately, in the first flash of impression, and then richness and other complexity enters in a fraction of a second after, with sweet and light flavors showing through seconds in.  Aftertaste expression really ramps up; maybe from a brewing intensity difference?  

I wouldn't be surprised if this just keeps on transitioning, if it's different again in 2 or 3 more rounds.  We're now into range where that's not necessarily from the cake material taking time to get wet.  Variations in the material may be expressing themselves across different times more; it's not completely uniform.  That can lead to a tea version not integrating well, or it can provide a unique and interesting balance, and make for an interesting transition cycle.  Here it works well, I think.  I think it's just a complex and intense tea version too, that the quality is good.

Thai:  this seems a bit more uniform, as if it's transitioning from the tea itself offering a different balance of experience across rounds, not from varied material showing through more or less.  Leaf color isn't completely uniform in this either though, so that's just a guess.  Balance and integration of flavors works better in this than in early rounds too.  An early dry edge (not nearly as dry as the other) also faded to change to a complex structure in this.  

That cedar wood tone seems to be slowly transitioning towards more of a dried fruit range.  A brighter component of that leans a little towards citrus, in this case dried orange peel, where the other might have included a hint of fresh orange, or maybe even lemon.  That might work as an example of why this tea would be much better in 6 to 8 more years, or maybe even 10, so that more of that transition could occur.  Intensity is moderate now but it's not fading, although both of these may go through a quieter phase before an aspect / character type transition is more complete.  Probably they seem less intense than 3 or 4 years ago now due to a similar effect, being in between two places.

color is way different, with the Viet Sun version (left) more broken

Vietnamese, #6:  it's interesting how this is one year older but also much darker in leaf appearance, in spite of being stored pressed (hard pressed, even, but this sample is from near the center, the "beeng-hole" part, so maybe the rest wasn't).  It's not so different that the last description no longer works, not transitioning so much.  It really hangs together well; a nice light citrus aspect balances the rest well.  Sweetness is ok, not something I've been saying much about, but these aren't very sweet compared to easier to drink younger sheng versions.  It's sweet enough to balance positively.  

Feel and aftertaste structure are more pleasant in this than the other; maybe it's slightly better for those extra dimensions adding more to it.  There's a richness to the flavor set that works well too.  I really expected this to be different, to not hold up to 7 years of aging transition this well, to fade more.  It could be subtle as a 15 year old version but it won't be mostly faded, and it's definitely not in that range where sheng seems to just be oxidizing instead of fermentation transitioning.  I just tried a tea like that within the last couple of days, maybe of comparable age.  It wasn't so unpleasant but at least to me that type range and experience form seems quite inferior.

Thai:  this isn't really fading but the transition might not be further improvement at this stage; that might have leveled off.  The character is pleasant but it gives up a good bit in terms of integration, balance, richness, and aftertaste intensity to the other version.  I really expected the exact opposite; this Thai version is not bad, it's holding up and transitioning fairly well.  It would be easy to miss that distinction when trying these teas a week or two apart; it would be easy for a preconception or varied judgment to enter in, a mood change or difference from how I'm feeling on any given day.  Trying them side by side it's right there to experience; you can't miss it.

It might sound like I'm concluding something that I don't intend, that I'm saying that the Vietnamese tea is much better, and it has a lot more aging potential than the Thai version.  I don't know that.  They're both in odd places in a transition cycle, half-way through, and they're similar enough in character that a main difference might be how they are shifting just now, not related to final potential.  I would guess that this Vietnamese version might be better in another decade, as it seems more positive right now, but that guess could easily be wrong.  Time will tell.  

Both have pretty good character now, and seem to exhibit decent potential.  It's quite possible that the Thai version is a little more muted related to being one year behind, and storage conditions difference could've changed a lot, not necessarily in a way I could identify, but at a guess this Thai version is more like 3 years behind in aging related to storage conditions difference.  

Conclusions:

Interesting!  Both are pleasant, both seem to show good aging potential.  I don't own any more of the Vietnamese version and very little of the Thai is left, so maybe I'll never know.

One important generality to emerge is that I keep expressing how a range of styles of South East Asian teas seem to have a character best enjoyed young, within 3 or 4 years, or maybe even new or rested for a year or two, and that doesn't cover everything produced.  I suspect the other Wawee Tea version I bought this year may be similar, that it's going to be better in 15 years than it is just now.  In a sense that's great; good aging potential makes for fantastic tea, later on.  In a different sense it's a bit sad, because I loved the 2022 version rested only for a half a year to a year, and it was fantastic to drink at that stage.

It would be nice if I could specify what inputs and outputs led to that character difference, but all this isn't headed there.  Varying initial oxidation during processing, differences in sha qing / kill-green step; who knows?  That's part of what makes sheng pu'er experience so interesting (or "pu'er-style" teas), that the broad range of complexity variations don't necessarily end when you try the brewed teas, with aging shifting what you experience over time.

To me the Vietnamese version is better, as these stand now, and it's really down to a guess if the Thai version will be similar in character and as good in 2 or 3 more years when it catches up in terms of fermentation transition (catches up to the where the Vietnamese version is now; it will always be behind).  

More input enters in related to how the later rounds went; the Vietnamese version stayed just as intense and transitioned positively over a number of additional rounds.  It had a nice brandy-like quality, related to how those aspects came together.  The Thai version stayed about the same.  Based on this it sounds like the Vietnamese version was just better, and more suitable for aging, but again the Thai tea could be a but muted related to where it stands in the transition cycle.  Only trying it in three more years would tell that story.  I suspect it will be much improved, but maybe not quite as intense or complex, but that's just a guess.