Thai and Vietnamese black tea and sheng pu'er at a Bangkok meetup

 

it wasn't this meetup; I forgot to take a picture (but this is Seth and Huyen)

I finally hosted people for a tea meetup this weekend, trying some really nice teas, that went well together as a set.  The main focus was on Thailand and Vietnam origins, but the two last versions didn't fit this post heading description at all, as aged Yunnan sheng (2004 from Dayi / Taetea), and 2020 Fu hei cha.  I took no pictures of the event or participants; that's an oversight.

The sequence of teas worked out well.  The people joining were in a good place to appreciate them, so discussion was pleasant, including range beyond tea.  This will leave those parts out, and focus on the teas, and why the order made sense.  That last part is a lot of the meaning here, about how trying a diverse range of teas can really inform the experience of everything in the set, more than a narrower theme.

In one sense these were all really good quality teas, and pleasant versions, and in another sense just basics range.  It's interesting how that works out.

101 Plantation Thai Oriental Beauty:  I've reviewed a lot of these teas, some recently, with this one reviewed here.  It's a pleasant, drinkable, very approachable place to start, tasting like honey, citrus, and cinnamon as OB tends to.  This version is pretty far up the scale as quality level for Thai OB goes, one of the better versions that I've tried.  

rolled leaf form OB on the left

That said, it still includes just a bit of green wood flavor input, and some of those positive flavors could be a little more intense, so it's just on the pretty good side of the Taiwanese range, better than average, but not comparable to the best of the best.  Which is still pretty good.  Given the price is moderate all that adds up to a cue for Thai local tea enthusiasts to order it online as soon as they hear about it, because it won't be around long.

Wawee Tea black tea:  I love this tea, which is kind of a main running theme across these versions, that they're what I like, just now and in general.  It includes plenty of cacao and fruit, with warm floral tones, and no tartness, which to me detracts from the overall experience.  The balance, sweetness level, and intensity are good, beyond that flavor profile being quite pleasant.  

I reviewed this tea in comparison with the next one we tried from Viet Sun in this post; strange it worked out that way.  I already mentioned loving both tea versions; it relates to that.  That detailed description doesn't exactly match what I'm saying here about these teas; so it can go, that you can really zero in on specifics in a combined tasting, spending an hour on just experiencing two tea versions, versus drinking them in other ways.

It's not so far off a standard Dian Hong style.  By that I mean that it includes a lot of warm mineral range and depth, and even though I've described it as including bright, intense, forward flavors--or at least that seems implied to me, as I read this.  It is as much about that depth as it is the forward range.  Which works well for me; I like that style.  With any tea experience there's an emergent "how good?" effect that relates as much to match to preference as any of these aspects or styles that I describe.  This tea version works really well for me.

Viet Sun Vietnamese black tea (Y Tý Air Dried Black Spring 2026; probably sold out now, that's generally how that goes).  

This version smells really sweet, and lots like cacao, with fruit notes coming in beyond that, and it is really intense.  It switches that focus on depth, or equal balance with warmer, deeper tones, for that blast of cacao and fruit.  But it balances just as well, just in a completely different way.  Flavors are really pronounced and clean, without a hint of anything negative, or any flaw.  This is a fantastic version of this style and form of tea.  The guests could really relate to both, and to the difference between them.  But it was time to shift theme.

Wawee Tea sheng pu'er (or since it's Thai tea just sheng, or however you prefer for designation):  in drinking "light to heavy" it could seem more intuitive to get to this tea first, because the tone is lighter.  It's bright, fresh, and intense, with lighter fruit and floral range, a bit of bitterness, and limited vegetal range.  Sweetness is great, balancing the rest.  It's a great match to what I love in drinkable young sheng, especially that overall intensity.  That's why I had us try this after the black teas instead; it's way more intense than them, even though flavor tones are lighter.  Sometimes people have trouble relating to a balance of bitterness included in a flavor set but everyone present seemed to relate well to this version.  It is approachable, not overly bitter, as some sheng can be.

It made for an interesting discussion point, about how aspects like bitterness and astringency can vary, and about why I describe factory teas as one particular thing, often in somewhat negative terms.  That came up again later, as we tried an aged Dayi (purple label 7542, from 2004).  It goes without saying that lots of teas from factory production tend to be even more intense, and less approachable, sort of "designed" for aging, even though it just works out that way.  The leaf being broken--often--lends to this harsher effect and greater intensity.  Then there's really a divide between the main producers, Dayi / Taetea, CNNP / Zhongcha, and Xiaguan, and how the rest of the smaller producers come across, which is not unified.  But that's a lot to get into here, even at the higher level summary, as we just did.

Viet Sun Y Ty sheng (I think the H'mong version, instead of the Dao):  this is my favorite of the set of Viet Sun teas I bought earlier this year, or at least it was, so it was nice trying it as well.  It's not so far off the Wawee character, but a little more refined in a sense, and intense in a different way.  I suppose the flavor profile is different.  I wasn't trying to clock specific flavor lists in this kind of tasting, especially for going through a lot of brewing details fairly quickly to keep it all moving along.  And we had a nice snack, maybe after this tea version.  There's a good local bakery in the Suan Dusit University, a main branch of the Home Bakery, that makes nice pastries, croissants, and egg tarts, and we had a nice mix.

those two Y Ty origin versions

This was one visitor's favorite; he really connected with these approachable and pleasant sheng.  Bitterness is pretty moderate for both of these versions, and intensity is significant but not challenging.  Flavor sets are pleasant; to me they are easy to relate to.  But again it was time to shift theme.

2004 Dayi / Taetea purple label 7542:  this tea is finally aged to where it should be, after 22 years in hot and humid Bangkok storage, so just a bit ahead of schedule.  It was a huge shift, moving from black tea, then light and approachable sheng, then onto well-aged sheng pu'er.  But it helped that the tea is still intense in terms of positive flavor range, and not challenging in any way.  4 or 5 years ago it would have been.  Of course it tastes like old furniture, old books, or like an old cabin in the woods would smell.  But clean; the hot and humid storage isn't as musty as one might expect.  

Specific storage areas can include that kind of input, a bit of extra fermented cardboard, or cement block.  Getting air contact right helps.  In one sense this might seem to mean very little air contact, since if you set this tea out on a shelf it would go dead.  I store the teas wrapped in either the plastic wrapper they come in, or in multi-layer packaging, or both, and then they're in storage boxes that get opened relatively regularly.  If you only opened a storage box every other month you could limit that extra inner layer of containment.  But it's more common now for people to use mylar sealing envelope type storage to keep them very contained, after conditioning to a desired level of moisture / humidity content.  It's always 70% or more humidity level in Bangkok, so it's fine, in a decent range.

This tea is pretty good; there's more I could say about that.  The people joining seemed to get that.  Where we rushed through the black teas a bit more, saving them for drinking some mixed together for a large cold-brew batch later, we did a couple of extra rounds with this.  I tried keeping proportion moderate for the two younger sheng, using longer infusion times, so we "used up" the potential for those better.  I was brewing two combined infusions ("stacked") from a 200+ ml gaiwan, mixing that to serve as a bit less than 400 ml split by 5 people; a good bit for this kind of tasting theme.

2020 Fu cake (this was the Lincang origin version, reviewed here):  I've taken to including one of two similar Fu hei cha versions, from Oriental Leaf, as a last round for tastings.  It's very different than the rest, no matter what we drink, and heavy in character, but quite approachable.  The uniqueness works well; everyone always loves the tea version, and it's one last eye-opening indicator of how much range tea can cover.  

These versions--there is a second from a different origin that's similar but different--can taste a bit like yeast or fresh bread, extending into a fresh rye or dark rye bread flavors.  There is a touch of citrus and honey from the jin hua / golden flower input.  Depth and complexity are great, and it's all way more approachable than one would expect.  It can be a little bit of a shock trying something so novel so far through a tasting experience, but it's interesting to end on that kind of surprise.

The guests really got the teas.  Two I've met at least a couple of times before, at these tasting meetups.  Two were new to Bangkok, exploring South East Asia, as many guests have been before, a bit transient.  I miss some of those people, or I suppose a lot of them.  I've been lucky to meet so many bright spirited, charming, enthusiastic, and open tea drinkers.  People bringing different perspectives helped discussion extend in interesting directions beyond just focusing on the tea.  

We talked a bit about Thai culture, the local art scene, what temples are like, differences in SE Asian countries, travel, and so on.  The subject of Japanese tea ceremony came up, but it's a lot to fully treat in depth, so as with many other tangents we only brushed through mention of a few points.  It can be problematic for the discussion to feel balanced in covering so much range in such a limited form like that, or some developed tangents can leave some guests out.  In this meetup it all really worked.  Size of the group matters; 5 of us joined, with 5 people either cancelling or being tentative and then not coming, and with 10 people it would've been much harder to manage.

we met inside instead of out here this time; it's a bit warm lately

the other garden space

fence view facing the other way, with a mango hanging, and cat checking out a squirrel

my nemesis; he eats the mango before they're even ready

Tea China 7572 Dayi (Taetea) shou / shu pu'er

 

I'm trying the last sample from a small Tea China vendor's set (sent at no cost for review; many thanks!).  

The posts need to have some sort of story that they tell, and often that's about something completely novel, a new style or origin.  This isn't that; this is a very standard type.  But it could be interesting referencing back to what that standard is.  I was still looking into types and background back in 2014 when I wrote a bit on what Dayi / Taetea 7572 is, in 2014, and on storage issues with tasting notes on multiple versions in this post.  I can't directly compare back to experiences 11 years ago, but I can try to look at this experience based on trying dozens of versions of shou / shu since.  

I'll just call it shou here, but I have trouble deciding which is more correct.  If whichever version matches the best standard Romanization practice is less conventional then it would be hard to say.

Their site listing:

Yunnan DaYi Pu’er Tea 7572 Classic Ripe Pu’er Tea  ($18.53, for 250 grams)

Pu’Er ripe tea from the famous Yunnan Menghai Pu’Er Tea Factory (Dayi). 7572 is a classic formula for Pu’Er tea and a benchmark for Pu’Er ripe tea.  We purchased these Pu’Er teas in 2022.

Dayi 7572 is a bulk Pu’er ripe tea from Menghai Tea Factory, which has been produced since the mid-1970s. It undergoes moderate fermentation, featuring the iconic reddish-brown and thick liquor color as well as a mellow taste.

Taste Profile:

In the new tea stage, it has a rich caramel aroma with a sweet scent, and after brewing, the lingering sugar aroma at the bottom of the cup is rich and full-bodied.

As the storage time increases, its aroma gradually changes. For example, after 3 years of storage, the aged aroma and sugar aroma begin to emerge and become more prominent, while the pile fermentation smell and woody aroma fade away. For ripe teas aged over 7 years, the aroma is mainly dominated by the aged scent.

I suppose that works.  One part of the sales listing says it's 250 grams, and the other 150, so I take that to be a typo / accidental mistake.  It's 150; that's listed on the packaging they show.

Review:

First infusion:  brewed a bit strong, using maybe 4-5 grams of tea to brew over 250 ml, maybe nearer to 12 ounces instead.  I did use a quick rinse this time; that's relatively standard, and it could cut back mustiness or funk a little.

Level of funk stands out most.  Shou often has a damp cardboard sort of scent to it, which others could associate as still within the range of peat.  It's pronounced in this.  Moychay shou versions, which are typically pretty good, tend to have a characteristic form of that, which I guess someone could love or else dislike.  Storage conditions input would enter in.  I think that aspect is mainly coming from the original tea character, which transitions over time, but storage would change how it is expressed, especially if a tea is stored very dry or very wet (diminishing that range, if quite dry, and changing it and increasing it, if stored wet or damp).

It has always been interesting how Hong Kong is considered quite damp storage, with Malaysia also described as such.  From online discussion it sounds like these are two consistent themes, based on conditions in those areas, but in reality vendors could, and probably typically would, adjust humidity level in storage conditions.  Malaysia, and Bangkok, are both much warmer and more humid than Hong Kong.  I've written about that here, and I wrote so much on that subject that I wrote a summary of it all here.  But the second of those was in 2019; I've learned a lot more through experience since.  And I write less now; that's how that tends to go.

Back to the tea, flavor is complex in this.  It's generally positive.  I think these benchmark Dayi / Taetea numbered shou are a great representation of good, basic shou character, and are positive to experience.  Of course they would vary.  Beyond the heavy earth baseline in this some hint of dried fruit and rich spice stands out, or aromatic dark wood.  It all mixes; it's hard to express as a list.  Maybe this does taste a bit like betel nut, the traditional Chinese herb input used for chewing, maybe like how people experience chewing tobacco.

This wouldn't be completely separate from the flavor range of chewing tobacco, just not all that close to it either.  Probably the larger leaf version, with a richer, deeper flavor, than the sharper, lighter, more stinging version of "snuff," the ground version.  I've never experienced much of either, but I did do a tour of vices back in my teens, as was common in the 1980s.  Right, I'm getting old.

That's already describing most of the flavor, but in unusually general terms (like spice, like dried fruit or dark wood).  Maybe I can narrow that down a bit, along with describing transitions, in a next round.  But since I'm brewing this Western style it would typically only make about three strong infusions.  This would also be pleasant to experience brewed Gongfu style, and you would see more transition between rounds.  Not a lot, typically, for this tea type, but some.  

Most people seem to like shou brewed inky black, and there is no limit for astringency or other limitations entering in, so it can be as strong as you like.  It's good for thermos brewing, which is just what it sounds like, using a very low proportion and the longest possible infusion time in a thermos, that you take with you.  It's so gentle on your stomach that it's the only tea I drink when fasting, beyond a little aged white, and I'm on day 1 of a planned 5 day fast today.  It's no problem to have this without breakfast.  Rushing through an extra strong brewed 12 ounce mug to write notes on the next part is a little more questionable.

Second infusion:  lighter, brewed faster.  Some of the peat range drops out.  It wasn't really musty before, kind of clean in effect, but describing a fermentation input like peat is hard to clarify related to that.  I think this may really relate to what people describe as like betel nut, as a main flavor.  I really should try that; it's out there in the local Chinatown (in Bangkok; I'm not in Hawaii now, where I also live sometimes).

The rest is still complex, but still not so distinct.  Warm tones do seem like dark wood, and some supporting range like dried fruit or spice.  Maybe sandalwood?  Dried fruit is perhaps closest to jujube, dried Chinese date.  And then it's hard to make any of that more specific.

Feel is decently rich and full.  Aftertaste expression is limited, but it doesn't clear from your mouth immediately, so those two parts give it some complexity.  It doesn't come across as amazing quality tea, but it's solid, and pleasant.

Conclusions:

On to guessing, limited to age, since I already know what it is.  As I see it shou tends to undergo two main transitions related to aging, related to the early fermentation related off notes clearing, typically over 3 years or so, then within 10 to 15 a version can pick up depth, and a less fermented style--which is more rare now--can transition even more.  I would guess that this is around that 3 year age range, that whatever off notes remained have had time to clear.  That's a bit unreliable, because some shou expresses less of that within the first couple of years.  And some more; some is better after about 4 years, which is really long enough for most of that to settle.

That just leaves placing the quality level, or match to what I like in shou.  It's as good as it's supposed to be, lacking significant flaws, so it's already in the top 50% of the range.  I'm just not sure it's better than 7572 would be from most sources, given it had some age, in appropriate storage conditions.  

All shou seems to resemble all other shou more than for most other tea types, to me, kind of like how there is low, medium, and high quality light Tie Guan Yin, and the versions don't vary as much as you'd expect between examples at the same level.  Of course plenty of people would reject both assertions.

So it's good; it's how it should be.  It's down to pricing and considering aging input, related to where to get it.

2022 Tea China 7542 compared with a 2014 7542

 

Tea China version right, in all photos

A new vendor--new to me--sent some tea for review recently; many thanks for that!  It's always nice checking in with basics, and a 7542 sheng pu'er was included.  I didn't check the year yet; it's interesting doing these reviews as blind as possible, then going back and seeing if what I experienced and described made sense based on the actual product details.  Later edit:  2022!

Of course all 7542 isn't the same.  They create and sell that in batches, and I don't know the batch number for the 2014 version I'm using for comparison (that I happened to have around).  Now that I think of it I've got a "younger" loose version I could've used; maybe that would have made more sense.  If the two are at vastly different ages that will still be fine; I can use it to compare aging patterns.

Then storage also changes things.  The tea I have has spent lots of time in Bangkok, which is hot and humid, which will speed up storage transition speed (fermentation, the growth of bacteria and fungus).  If this other version is a comparable age but stored in a cooler and dryer area, like Kunming, it would have fermented less.  It's hard to imagine that it might be "not as good" related to that batch issue, but I guess that's possible.  Newer Spring tea versions of lots of teas are more prized, so that batch #1 sells for more (of 7542, and other recipe types sold as a series like that).

There's not so much more to add.  7542 is familiar; it usually works better as an aged tea, and 11 years old really isn't quite enough.  At least these interim tasting checks are getting closer to the right time, just as that cake has been chiseled down a good bit, but probably still years away from being fully aged.  It helps to buy one cake to try and another to just age if you are actually going to try one once in awhile.

Yunnan DaYi Pu’er Tea 7542 Classic Raw Pu’er Tea  $16.43 (2022 version, for a 150 gram small cake)

The listing includes a reference to it being 250 grams in one place, but that small cake version of 7542 is usually 150, and it says that in the label image reference.

The listing is just general background information:

Pu’Er ripe tea from the famous Yunnan Menghai Pu’Er Tea Factory (Dayi). 7542 is a classic formula for Pu’Er tea and a benchmark for Pu’Er Raw tea.

We purchased these Pu’Er teas in 2022.

In the new tea stage: The aroma is rich, featuring intense, long-lasting floral and fruity notes, as well as elegant and light honey-sweet fragrance. The lingering aroma at the bottom of the cup persists for a long time. Additionally, new tea may have a fresh clean scent or downy hair aroma, with an overall fresh and uplifting fragrance.

After aging: As storage time increases, the aroma gradually changes. It transitions from fresh floral notes to aged aroma, camphor-like scent, medicinal fragrance, woody aroma, etc., becoming increasingly mellow and profound.

I was going to return to that "benchmark" idea in the conclusions, so I might as well expand on it here.  For whatever reason it has evolved that this one tea version represents all factory tea range, not necessarily as the best possible example, but as the singular version cited as type-typical.  That's fine; it's a pretty good example of the range.  It makes it especially attractive for trying out the general type range.

Another point I wanted to mention related to cost.  This costs 11 cents a gram.  That seems kind of low, but I don't really follow market rate pricing.  It doesn't necessarily raise a red flag for me that it might be fake, but that's not an unheard of range of concern.  Searching for something else an EBay listing was at about the same pricing, and King Tea Mall sells it for $14, not so different.

One might wonder why the pricing for these is so moderate; two of them would relate to a cost of around $30, from all of these sources, for just under a standard 357 gram amount (300 grams instead).  The price of sheng has dropped a good bit, but it was my understanding that this was a relatively recent trend, that over the past year a dip in demand and market positioning occurred.  These are from 3 years ago; I would've expected it to sell for a little more.  

One of the causes for a relative "crash" in pu'er pricing was that many sources were making too much of it, to support speculative buying, and also ordinary demand, people drinking it.  It's not counter-intuitive that expanded production would relate to very well known versions being inexpensive even  prior to this final outcome, the more significant and broad price drop over the past year, or slightly longer.

How would I know if this was "real?"  I wouldn't.  It including a smoky note is hard to place, something I discuss in this review.  Quality level, style, and appearance seems right for this tea version.  Probably it just picked up some external smoke contact along the way, and that's not any sort of unusual clue.

color difference comes out more in wet leaf

Review:

older comparison version, left, brews darker

2014 comparison version:  color is darker in this version; it should be older.  Flavor is a little subdued this round; it's still opening up.  Tones are warm.  It has fermented to a more agreeable range, per my preference.  There's a different sort of barnyard flavor present, compared to the edgier, more exotic aged Xiaguan range.  This includes aged barn wood, and a touch of leather, but not the funkier saddle leather scent. 

Tea China 7542:  this includes a touch of smoke; I'm not sure what to make of that.  I don't remember noticing smoke in a 7542 version before.  It will probably mostly settle out within about two infusions anyway, given how light it is.  Smoke can come from a naturally occurring flavor, from contact with smoke during the wok pan-frying kill-green step, or from a storage input, from it being stored where smoke is also present.  I don't know what this is from.  Smoke as a natural flavor tends to be slightly different, but I'm not going to claim I could spot that difference now.  It just doesn't come up as often as it had before; a decade back it had seemed that contact with smoke during processing was more normal.

Flavors seem clean and pleasant beyond that.  Mineral is pronounced, and some limited vegetal range flavor remains, which has transitioned to warmer tones in the other, over time.  This still balances well enough.  It should be pleasant to drink.  For people who think young sheng tastes like kerosene, or whatever else, they might still hate these.  Neither is fully age transitioned.

2014 #2:  brewed liquid color is all the more evident; this is darker and redder.  Flavor is a little rough; this needs however many more years to really get there.  I do drink partly aged sheng from time to time to experience that intensity and punch, but it can seem a little harsh.  

Warm tones are emerging, towards dried fruit, well within a good bit of medicinal herb range now.  It just settles more on aged wood with a touch of leather.  I suppose that astringency and towards-vegetal range is like cured wood, at this point.  It doesn't taste completely woody, as cheap sheng can, like plywood smells, but it's not so far off it either.

Tea China version:  smoke is pretty intense this round, even stronger.  And lots of other complexity joins in beyond that.  It's also on the challenging side, very astringent, with some bitterness (lots, to anyone who hasn't been drinking young sheng for awhile).  I'll need to eat something between rounds to clear part of the accumulated experience of bitterness, vegetal range, and astringency.

Is it pleasant though?  I don't know.  I like varying sheng experiences, and this is one of them, but it's also kind of challenging.  I'm not sure it makes sense to me to buy a tea like this to drink at this stage, fermented (age transitioned) to this degree.  Other people do though.  I do drink kind of challenging partly-aged sheng sometimes, just not often.

2014 #3:  brewed a little lighter this kind of makes sense, with early rough edges transitioning away.  The same range of flavors stands out, but it all balances better.  Warm mineral tone plays a larger role.  Even sweetness, it seems.  It's hinting towards dried fruit range to come, but it will need more transition for that to become clearer.  

At least it's nice and clean, not musty.  And it has been stored in the wettest and hottest conditions imaginable, right at the limit of what tea could experience without molding, with the heat enabling it to change in a different way, and probably somehow suppressing mold development.  Mind you if we put bread out on the table (sealed in a bag) it will mold really fast; fungus can thrive at 30+ C, in the upper 80s and low 90s F.

Tea China version:  smoke does start to ease up, but it's only balancing the rest better.  That's still centered on a partly cured wood tone at this point, of course with some mineral and bitterness.  It has a limestone sort of lighter mineral tone.  It's not unpleasant, but it's not necessarily "approachable" either.  Then again the other version isn't that much easier to appreciate, even with some warmer tones included.

I haven't been mentioning that intensity is good.  It's really a bit much.  But in a sense I like that about sheng, and pushed to a far limit it's interesting to experience.  All of this sounds more negative than I intend it.  7542 is a pretty good version of factory tea, and these two examples are fine.

2014 #4:  the best this has been.  Some root spice seems to emerge, or maybe it's that combined with bark spice.  This version really is getting there.  But it would be better not to drink it at all for 3 or 4 more years to let it keep changing though, then after 3 or 4 more it would probably be better yet.

Tea China:  smoke has dropped to an even level input with the rest.  I might've seemed to imply that smoke is a flaw, that people should dislike it.  In the right other flavor context it can be very pleasant, and it works in this.  The somewhat challenging astringency and vegetal range is a bit much, and warm toned smoke helps balance it.  Without that smoke I don't think that this would be as good, at this fermentation transition level or stage.

It's fairly clean in overall effect, just with rough edges.  Intensity is great, and the mineral range is generally positive.  Sure, it can seem a little harsh, so a take on it depends on appreciating that or else hating it.  I lean towards liking it.  But then my overall favorite range of sheng is something else entirely, the fruity, warmer toned, bright character (kind of contrast with the last aspect, but it makes sense to me), good intensity younger versions, commonly produced in "other" South East Asian countries, in Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, and wherever else.  I guess that Myanmar is the other "wherever else," but the style is more common in those other three countries, based on what I've tried, with some Myanmar range seeming closer to some Yunnan styles.

I'll try another round and let this go.  It's too much tea to power through quickly, and it's too intense.  The effect is also strong, along with the flavor being intense.  I'll chalk that up to another positive, but if I were to drink a half dozen rounds, 12 cups, it wouldn't be positive.  10 is pushing it.  I've thrown out about a fourth of this tea just to make it this far.  It's disrespectful to the tea, as I see it, but it was a necessary input to getting further through rounds to try these more completely.  I could come back later and try more, but I prefer to write the notes in one go, then edit when I get to it.

2014 #5:  more of the same, not transitioning so much.  I can appreciate this.  I wouldn't want to have this experience too often, but once in awhile it's nice.  

Tea China:  the same applies to this; it's fine to drink this as it is just now.  Not my main preference, but then lots of tea experiences are like that.  It would probably be better in another dozen years, but for many that kind of delay would seem problematic.

Conclusions: 

One might wonder if I can judge a difference between the two, adjusting for the age difference.  Not really; they're too far apart in age and character.  They seem similar, beyond that, but that's a stretch as a conclusion about authenticity or quality or whatever.  

The smoke is the main difference, and that was probably added in later on, through some sort of storage contact.  People using actual wood fire for heating isn't necessarily as odd as some people might see it as; I'm from Pennsylvania, and I grew up using a woodburning stove as an alternative heating system.  Not a fireplace, although we had that too, I mean a stove in the basement that heated water that circulated in a baseboard system.  We used a heat pump for a long time, pulling heat from a cold spring water source, then later my parents switched to using fuel oil, when that system needed to be replaced.

These might have been similar related to starting points.  Both are pretty clean, heavy on mineral, expressing some wood tones, just in different ranges, related to aging (I think).  Intensity is good for both.  They balance ok.  There are lots of flaws that I might have mentioned that aren't included, lack of intensity, a different range of wood flavor, mustiness, lack of balance, limited sweetness (which doesn't come across well with the other range present), or not including the right range of astringency and bitterness.  They're both fine.  

I really like the unblended, distinctive narrow input material type effect better, something lots of sheng drinkers have been conditioned to prefer over the last decade.  With that more gaps show up, and distinct strengths, limited range flavor inclusions.  They've blended a lot of that out in these.  They're using some relatively intense material in them, but that's a part of it.  And they're a little harsh; also a normal inclusion.  

I like the way the first is moving towards spice, maybe a little towards incense spice, in the round after the notes leave off.  To me that's what 7542 is really about, experiencing it as a 20 year old tea, or 25 years old.  20 is fine for Bangkok storage; time passes differently here.  I'm holding up well, but teas change faster here.

To me 7542 is particularly interesting because it serves as the normal standard for factory teas, a benchmark version.  Experiencing it helps someone not only learn that category better, but also lets you discuss that particular experience with others, as a shared main reference.  Buying a version that's 3 or 4 years old and drinking straight through it might not be entirely positive, but even for that it's not awful.  It's not at all ideal, compared to more approachable sheng, but for people new to exploration it wouldn't be so bad to work through some exposure.  You get accustomed to brewing approach that way, and become more familiar with the general style.  

Related to buying from a relatively unknown, small vendor versus a known marketplace vendor I like the idea of supporting smaller businesses, I just don't end up buying much from this kind of source.  Or from any sources, this year, and in the past more from only a few favorites.  It will be interesting trying other teas from them, to see what the rest is like, which may make them a more attractive source.

Comparing 2014 and 2017 Dayi 7542 versions

2017 version left, in all photos

So many of these review posts start with considering why it makes sense to comparison taste teas together.  A new tea friend bought me some of a 2017 7542 (Dayi / Tae Tea sheng pu'er) version when we met at a local Bangkok shop recently (at Sen Xing Fa), so I wanted to write up what it's like.

This also relates to considering what sheng versions are like at different stages of fermentation transition, of different character types and ages.  It's nice checking in with a benchmark version from time to time to help place others.  

7542 versions tend to really need about 20 years of aging to be ready to drink, or 25 to 30 years in drier and cooler storage conditions, so trying 6 and 9 year old versions is a little odd.  It's still interesting see where they are in their transition, and comparing other less intense sheng versions with them at similar transition points can be interesting.

I already owned the rest of a cake of this 2014 version.  I had drank more than really made sense earlier, going a little beyond checking on it every year or so.  I'm not sure what that was about.

Review:

2017:  a little harsh, but surprisingly pleasant in comparison with what I expected.  There's lots of bitterness, coupled with astringency structure, but plenty of warm tones for this being so young.  Of course it's intense.  Some pleasant saddle leather sort of earthier range is present, leaning towards typical Xiaguan range.  I suppose that someone could interpret fruit or spice being present, since this is so complex, but earthiness stands out more, along with that astringency and structure.  Mineral base is a part of all that too.

2014:  this is quite different, relatively speaking.  It's still intense, with lots of complexity, and not in an entirely different character range, but a smooth and rich spice sort of tone really dominates, at least at this round.  9 years is a long time to transition where this tea has been, in Bangkok.  In Kunming storage it would still exhibit a lot of freshness, but this has turned a corner for character form, more onto warmer tones.  It still needs plenty more time to reach its optimum; this is still an in-transition early-form review, a check on transition progress.  

That wood and spice tone is hard to describe.  It's like cedar or redwood, but towards spice from that, with an odd changed character to it, as driftwood takes on.  It's clean in effect; no mustiness.  There is an earthy edge leaning a bit towards leather, or even mushroom, back to that Xiaguan reference, but I think this will clean up in the next couple of rounds, that it might just be an early round transition phase.

I often say that I don't really "get" cha qi, that I barely feel teas, beyond some caffeine input, but I'm feeling these already, on the first round.  I tried to go lighter on amount but probably left off at 6 grams each instead of 8.  I'm brewing these pretty fast (having used a rinse step, for once), but the infusion strength is still going to be high.  Using 4 grams for each would've made more sense.

brewed fast, but you can still see the intensity

2017, 2:  this isn't bad, just as it is now.  It has a green sort of edge to it, which not everyone could relate to, but I've kept re-trying decade old Xiaguan tuos to acclimate.  A rich warm tone is pleasant, along the line of toffee.  There's a challenging feel aspect, for sure, but there is more to appreciate beyond that.  Complexity is good, and in just another half dozen years this may be relatively settled, years ahead of schedule.  Not fully age-transitioned, of course, but just drinkable in a different sense.  These really shouldn't be drank before 20 to 25 years old, to be more optimum.

2014:  a lot of the same applies to this, just related to it being a little further along.  For anyone who hasn't been drinking sheng for a half dozen years this experience would be truly awful, but I'm kind of relating to it.  I think the real story here will be how these mellow out around rounds 7 or 8, what that's like, but of course I can't drink 14 to 16 infusions of these at one time.  And I'm probably not going to do a two-part review either, or discard this tea, or save it for later.  It's all a bit of a shame.  10 cups of these teas is a ton of it but I might get that far, if I brew these light enough.

2017, 3:  There is so much going on but the intensity makes it hard to sort into parts.  Something like leather stands out, then a green wood sort of flavor couples with the challenging intensity, while warm mineral couples with the deeper base, so strong it almost seems to include metal.  Part of the rest is in a spice range, and there may be some dried fruit involved, towards Chinese date or goji berry.  The feel isn't something people would keep coming back to, but it's not completely unpleasant.  If it had a bit more dry edge it really wouldn't work, but as it is this is just basic astringency structure.

2014:  only part of that harsher feel is present in this; it softened a lot in the extra 3 years (not that these were identical to begin with; they may have only been quite similar).  A lot more of the flavor falls into a spice tone range, across both a deeper, smoother root spice range and part like more aromatic incense spice.  There's an odd medicinal quality to it, one that's hard to place.  It seems like sweeter fruit tone is evolving, that it might come to include more of that, but it's secondary to the rest here.  Where the other is like a dried Chinese date or goji berry this is starting towards dried tangerine peel.  The earthiness seems to include some tobacco as well. 

One more round should be enough.  This is a story partly told but it's too much to experience a lot of these.  I drank water in between rounds to moderate the experience a little but lunch and a break will help more.

2017, 4:  it's very gradually becoming more approachable.  By round 7 or 8 this will be easier to appreciate.  The balance works better; feel eases up, and intensity settles across a similar but different aspect range.  Leather effect is more like baseball glove now, not as heavy and earthy as the horse saddle tone earlier.

2014:  that one spice note is interesting and pleasant.  Feel is still a bit much, and intensity is higher than it's easy to appreciate.  In just 3 or 4 years that balance may shift, but again this needs longer.  The wood range tone is still too green, and it's not nearly as harsh as I expected but still kind of rough.

Conclusions:

Both teas were much better in a series of later rounds, at least 4 more, and both are still far from brewed out at the end of the day.  I might've been able to describe another extra aspect or two for both but the main change was the green wood tone and astringency fading, while more positive warmer range emerged more later.  That was plenty for notes anyway, and enough reference for mentally comparing this experience to other middle-aged sheng I run across.

Both were better than I expected, and more transitioned.  I guess I had been drinking that 2014 version as even younger than 6 years old earlier, before I just sat it aside, even though trying it over and over when younger really made no sense.  The main thing that stood out wasn't exactly a surprise, the intensity.  

I hadn't expected the character to have changed that much over three years, but then maybe they didn't start out as relatively identical to begin with.  I doubt that spice tone that really stands out now in the 2014 version was noticeable in that form even 2 or 3 years ago, so who knows, maybe the other will go through a similar flavor range phase in 3 more years.

Comparing 7 and 9 year old Dayi / Taetea 8582 and 7542 sheng pu'er

In that recent Chinatown shop visit tasting outing, at Sen Xing Fa, I bought a Dayi 8582 sheng cake.  It seemed a little odd buying something basic and already known, after trying a dozen other unusual or version-specific teas that day, but I had meant to buy this cake for some time.  It's a gap in what I've experienced and what I own, as I see it.  I'd even meant to buy this exact same cake at that shop, I think 3 years ago on a visit there, but had to cut that day short because of my wife's pressing next demands, and forgot to get back to it.

that could be the same tea in the center, from 2017

at that recent tasting; Mr. Tian is all grown up now

The 7542 is from 2014 and this 8582 from 2016, so both year and age-transition level vary.  The 7542 I've owned for awhile, bought to try as it aged over time.  It's relatively senseless to own only one such cake, since one could easily keep trying it every other year and then notice they love it most 20 years old, when it's half gone from all the tasting.  Even if you only tried it a half dozen times in a dozen years removing 50 or so grams from a 357 gram cake is a lot.  Per some classic old Tea Addict's Journal (blog) advice "a cake is a sample," or close to that.  I think it might've been followed with a tong being a sample, a set of 7 cakes, but that could be partly a joke, since 2 1/2 kg of tea is a bit.

The first question that arises is whether or not this is real.  I think it probably is, even without trying it, but even after trying it I wouldn't be sure.  These tea versions aren't so expensive, although 7542 kind of is now, after yet another spike in collector holding made even brand new versions more costly.  It would be worthwhile for someone to counterfeit the teas though, even if they only sell for $30, since finding $10 source cakes would be simple enough in China, or for even less, so it would be down to forging packaging.  I won't focus on that much here; I'll offer my impressions, and bring it up again, but this isn't about me confirming or rejecting that determination.

I'm trying the tea to set up a baseline of how it transitions over time.  I can't go back and try how the version was in 2016, 7 years ago, but I can try it now, and compare that to a more fully aged version in another 7 years.  20 years is probably a standard age-transition level for cakes like these, but the pace of changes varies with storage conditions, and the hot and humid climate in Bangkok rushes it.  

That's not necessarily optimum, but what is ideal would vary by starting point, the aspects of the original material, and would vary quite a bit with personal preference.  If someone likes heavier, deeper, danker aged flavors in sheng, and the starting point was less approachable, very intense, bitter, and astringent, then hot and humid storage could be ideal.  Dry storage preserves initial character better, not changing it as much as one might expect over a decade, and then somewhere in the middle most people might see as an optimum, conditions more like in Taiwan or Hong Kong.  I'm not put off by the heavier flavor range hot and humid conditions here impart, with 12 to 15 years being more like 20 in a drier place for general transition level, but I'm claiming that it's somewhat optimum either.  It just depends. 

Note that I don't know where these were stored, beyond the 7542 being a cake I've held onto for the past half dozen or so years.  Either could have easily spent some time in China, changing things.  It seems likely this 8582 cake was stored right beside where we were tasting teas in that shop, which isn't the worst case for conditions, but probably not ideal either.  I'll add more about that at the end.

a bit darkened already, especially for being 7 years old

On to tasting then.  Tasting process will be fairly standard, using a rinse, water not far off boiling (local Bangkok tap water from a filtration and heating system, so not at full boiling), brewing about 7 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan (which I didn't weigh), using an initial discarded rinse.

Review:

8582:  interesting!  It's definitely in those in-between years when it's less natural to experience it, at only 7 years old not really showing the other aged side past that as clearly.  Heavy flavors are pleasant (to me), tons of warm mineral, and parts towards wood or leather.  It seems like a floral range tone still shines through, and another closer to mineral is odd, a little towards soap, but not in an awful sense.  

In inexpensive, poor quality teas there's a characteristic thinness that seems to often occur, a gap in fullness of feel, even if flavor intensity can be fine, and this isn't like that, it has good body to it.  Astringency level is nowhere near an optimum for this being at a point in aging where it's not normal to drink it, but the edge and structure that's there should help the tea evolve positively without fading.  For aftertaste a heavy mineral taste lingers long on my tongue; that should be even more positive as it softens and changes form over time.

7542:  this may be considerably more age-transitioned, even though it's just 2 years older (9 years old now).  It brews a lot darker, and the feel has changed (not that they had to be so similar initially, given they're not the same recipe / version, but I mean the general range).  It's picking up a deep and heavy basement sort of tone, which is quite positive to some and off-putting for others.  It's also too early to judge this, since it will mellow quite a bit and lose a lot of edge to a transition process.  It will only really settle into being more fully aged after 15 years, even in Bangkok.

This may be brewing faster, related to being more fermented, in the same way more oxidized black teas brew out much faster than lighter oxidation level black teas tend to.  Oxidation and fermentation transition are two different things, even though to some extent the second may partly include some input from the first, per some people's input, but this comment is only about how fast teas tend to brew.  That doesn't matter much in application; it's easy to give a round extra seconds to adjust for it, or to shift timing a little between two versions when comparison brewing, which I probably won't do.

Flavors are interesting in this, spanning rich wood tones, heavy leather range, and tisane range, mild root spice.  That would all shift a lot over a half dozen more years, and I'm not sure it makes so much difference where a version in the middle happened to be at 7 versus 9 years.  I could swear that I'm feeling these teas already, before finishing the first two rounds.  I'll need to let them brew a little faster next round for a different reason, to keep it in a more drinkable range for tasting.  I drank quite a bit of water between rounds to reset my palate and it still tastes sweet, with some tea flavor, quite a number of drinks in.  These teas are intense.

8582 2nd infusion:  this is definitely way behind the other for transition level, and seemingly less intense.  People speak of sheng going through a quieter phase changing from younger to more aged character but I would expect this to be at the end of the earlier stage yet instead, not there.  It has reasonably strong flavor range, good depth, and especially interesting aftertaste range, seemingly almost as strong as the flavor while drinking it.  The other just packs a really hard punch.  I'll skip describing another flavor list until next round.

7542:  this is more age-transitioned, it seems, but bitterness is also more intense, which is odd.  Astringency too; the feel structure of this is more challenging than positive, really.  It needs more time, which always was the theme, experiencing the middle range.  Aftertaste experience for this one is so heavy on minerals it's almost metallic.  

If I brew 12 to 13 small cups of these that will make 24 or more in total; way too much.  I might not make it through too many for the review and notes part of this and try again after lunch.  

Oddly I like the novelty of experience of trying out sheng that's not ready yet; from time to time I'll drink a middle-years Xiaguan and Dayi Ji Ji tuocha tea like that.  I have a dozen such tuos at home, almost none compared to people who collect in significant volume, but a start for people accustomed to not owning much tea.  I drink a lot more young sheng that's best drank young now.

At the end of this second round I'm thinking I might only make it through 3.  I ate right before this too, oatmeal with banana, so it's odd that it's hitting me this hard.

8582, 3rd round:  mild wood or tisane range picks up, with heavier tones and mineral fading some.  Intensity isn't what I expected from this, but it shouldn't be this promising if it's fake tea.  Maybe it is in a quieter phase just now.  I'm brewing these relatively quickly, keeping them light, but I mean after factoring that in.  I'll try out infusing them for slightly longer next round but these can be way too strong brewed for even moderate timing, so not for very long.

7542:  this is more intense by a good bit, with a lot of heavier flavors mixing with lighter range.  It's not balanced, related to being in an awkward place in transitioning, but that's normal.  I would've expected more of that "greener" range and astringency edge, that is present in this, to stand out in the other version than is occurring.

This reminds me a little of trying a Dayi purple label version some years back, from 2004, some years back, projecting ahead to how all the rough edges, heavy and complex flavors, and overall intensity would settle out.  It has now; at 19 years old (or so) it's in a better place, but a few more will really finish off that process.  There was some uncertainty if that was a variation of a 7542 recipe or not that I never really settled; at least one online reference referred to multiple versions, including one with a label like that, relating to that formula and type, but it still never seemed clear.  I'm pretty sure that was from Taetea / Dayi, that it wasn't an early version of a counterfeit.

I'll try one more round and take a break; it's enough.

8582 4th infusion:  to me this is pleasant, and being slightly more subtle (less complex and intense) than the other isn't so bad.  It has good depth to it, and there is flavor range.  Tobacco really picked up this round.  Not a warm sweetness like pipe tobacco, that's more perfume-like and aromatic, or cedar wood range spicy cigar tobacco, this is closer to how a Camel cigarette smells (not when burning).  

Sweetness level is ok, just a bit overtaken by deeper mineral and other range that comes across as wood or leather.  The wood tone includes a greener edge, part that's tied back to younger range character a lot more than what should transition in over the next decade.

7542:  it's further along, but this also includes a mix of heavier mineral base, warm tones, basement-aroma depth, and greener range, again back towards green wood.  I would imagine it might be 3 more years of transition before these are more fully along, and another comparison with these notes might make sense.  

Somehow those 10 or so year old tuochas make more sense to me, even though per any standard preference they're not ready yet either (9 years old now, 2012, the version I own most of, reviewed here along with 2014 and 2015 Dayi Jia Ji tuochas 4 years ago, as another interim-transition review).  Looking at that earlier review "green wood" comes up a lot, just as now.

Conclusions:

The point here never was to fill in a long flavor list, the main theme for a lot of reviews, more just to compare this new-to-me 8582 to the 7542 I had already owned.  It's fine; it will be nice to see how it changes over time.  For being this promising I should probably buy another.

The effect of these sheng surprised me a little.  I drink forest-origin young sheng all the time now, and it's intense, but these really have me buzzing.  In part that's actually a little negative; along with a stoney sort of rush my head feels a little off.  I've never been sensitive enough to "cha qi" to feel overly impacted by it, beyond some exceptionally intense sheng versions triggering that.  It seems like part of that change is probably from me, not the teas.  No need to overthink it; I'll take a long break and try a few more rounds after lunch.

The one other surprise was the 8582 giving up so much intensity to the other version.  They're in completely different places in age-transitioning so it's hard to separate that from inherent character and fully-aged potential.  Both should be fine for moving through that process as early as in another half-dozen years, with the transition rate speeded up here in Bangkok.

I didn't get far with speculation here that it might not be "real."  I would guess that it is what it's presented as.  Why would it give up some intensity to the other tea version then, even though for being two years younger it might be more intense, just not a pleasant related to having less time to transition?  Storage conditions may not have been ideal.

Taking this for what it's worth, not expert opinion, just somewhat informed discussion, humidity, temperature, and degree of air contact are main storage conditions inputs.  Storage in a shop with AC running isn't ideal, even in a really humid place like Bangkok.  If they kept that place as cold as the malls here it would be much cooler and drier, and worse, but still air conditioning units pull moisture out of the air.  

Daily temperature swings probably aren't necessarily ideal (natural conditions in Bangkok), but I'm really talking here more about degree of air contact than those other two factors.  This was sold in a thick ziplock style bag, which is decent, but those breath an awful lot.  The tea could've been cycling a trace amount of humidity in and out every day, for years, losing some volatile flavor compound components at the same time.  

The input would've been minor, because if they kept that shop only somewhat cool (26 or 27 instead of the 32 or 33 outside temperature, just under 80 instead of up into the 90s), plenty of humidity in outside air would still mix in.  It stays 60% RH or higher here in Bangkok; it's muggy.  Inside a paper wrapper, ziplock bag, and paper tong wrapper it's not like this was just sitting out on a shelf.

All that's just a guess, and the tea is still fine.  I'm speculating here why the 7542 might be slightly more intense, and this is a possible explanation.  Since I'm not familiar with a baseline 8582 character, or how those vary from year to year, that's another.  It's even possible that in two years this could seem more intense for transitions to a next character type causing variation, but the other two potential inputs in these past few sentences seems more likely.

Still, I would buy this again, and may do so.  It didn't cost so much and I think it might be quite positive in another half a dozen years.  Or 10; it's funny how sheng can often seem almost there for aging transition level for time periods that just keep extending.

An over the top tea meetup at the Sen Xing Fa Bangkok Chinatown shop

 

About another meetup, one that resulted in trying a lot of pretty good teas.  I wrote this event summary in the Facebook group I organized it through, the Bangkok Tea Tasting Club I founded there (just cutting out the thanks part):

We tried a crazy range and amount of tea, I think the most I've ever tried at one time.

It covered white tea, green (Longjing), several Wuyi Yancha and Dan Cong, a Taiwanese and a traditional Anxi Tie Guan Yin oolong (so a lot of the main oolong range), hei cha, sheng and shu pu'er. Wow! Odd no black tea; that's almost all that we missed.

I'll write more about details in a blog post. Chinatown shops tend to let you try teas but nothing like that; they took it on themselves to make it into a special tasting event. Then again Sen Xing Fa probably is the best shop for trying a range of teas I know of here in Bangkok, related to the kind of shop it is.

That's what happened, in short.  I'll break it down a little more by topic but will try to keep this short and readable.

Sen Xing Fa (the shop):  they're close to the main tourist area in Chinatown, on a main food street soi off Yaowarat, the main strip.  They sell a really broad range of teas; pretty much all across the Chinese tea range, onto Thai and Taiwanese oolong range.  This shop was the first place I bought decent loose tea in Bangkok (Longjing), on advice from Chinese vendor staff, or at least a second outlet shop of theirs was, in a market alley a few sois over.

It's interesting contrasting this shop and Jip Eu, the one I keep calling my favorite.  They carry a more limited range of teas, but some options really stand out in that range, unusual versions and great value.  Jip Eu's customer base is locals either buying inexpensive Wuyi Yancha / rock oolong, blended Shui Xian or else good Wuyi Yancha versions, and either tourists or local foreigners seem to be the main customer base for Sen Xing Fa.  Sen Xing Fa may be a better place to try teas because it's set up for that as a result; tourists explore range that's new to them more than locals buying similar teas over and over.  SXF carries a lot of Thai oolong as a result, and Jip Eu really focuses most on Chinese teas, with some exceptions.

As to value since that ties just as much to personal preference versus price as to objective quality level--interpreted in one way, at least--you have to sort through options to maximize that anywhere.

Mr. Tian, one of the family member owners

maybe from 2017, added to this 2018 post

who attended:  it was nice seeing two people I've met before, one a member of the early tasting sessions that FB group was founded to support, Noppadol.  He was sort of a co-host of those, and serving as a part-time tea vendor he shared or sold me some very nice tea, including a Thai Lamphang sheng tuocha, and this sheng sample from Myanmar.  A couple of the others I've talked to a good bit by message, so they all felt familiar.  

In a sense the other earlier tasting seemed less formal, more like meeting at an uncle's house to try some teas with friends, in part because of the smaller group size and less structured theme.  This felt like a tea tasting, even working from lighter to heavier teas, the standard approach.

what we tried:  what didn't we try?  I'll just mention unusual exceptions.  An early Longjing / Dragonwell wasn't atypical but for that being a good quality example of the one type of green tea I really like it was nice (they're probably still a good source for that in Bangkok).  Some of the Dan Cong was pretty good, and good range Dan Cong is a really nice experience.  "Good" is all relative; maybe quality level was still in a upper normal range but pleasantness stood out.  Flavor range was very positive, generally type-typical, sweetness pleasant, and astringency quite moderate, with only secondary factors like full feel, length of aftertaste, and refinement falling short of the highest end versions.

We tried pretty good sheng and shu pu'er, an older CNNP shu (99?), and a CNNP / Zhongcha 7542 version from 96, I think it was.  That's more typically a Dayi / Taetea version (recipe), but CNNP did make their own versions earlier on.  Another participant mentioned that the separation between Zhongcha and Dayi may have been different in form in the mid-90s, which is tea history that I'm not clear on.  Storage input for that aged sheng pu'er seemed too clearly positive for the tea to have spent most of the time in Bangkok, since heat and humidity is great for pushing aging transition / fermentation tempo but not for the most optimized outcome for conventional sheng style teas, and the shop staff confirmed that it had spent more time in China, in the Menghai area.

It was interesting trying a pretty good hei cha, light, complex, and spicy, kind of rushing through that for it being at the end, even though it could've been more of a centerpiece of a less crowded tasting agenda.  One oolong was unlike any version I've tried, described as processed to a finish that doesn't involve completely drying the leaves, pressed to small square tablets, and distributed and kept frozen.  After all that it was still not too far off higher end and typical Taiwanese oolong style, but a little different.  

I think a Rou Gui towards the end was better than I could fully appreciate for being so blasted by all that tea at that point.  Quality markers stood out quite positively in that, if I had it right, the few aspects that show how the tea would probably be evaluated in tea specialist circles (feel and aftertaste again, a match to the pronounced cinnamon input, getting the oxidation and roast inputs balanced just right).

our first host in that shop

So that's it; lots of nice teas experienced with good company.  It was great that the shop seemed to really respect that tasting event as something more than a few tea enthusiasts dropping by, which was kind of how I saw it.  If you signed up for that sort of tasting as a paid event--not that anyone would schedule trying that many teas at once, which didn't fit into the 3 hour original scheduled time--you could expect to pay $50 or more (1500+ baht).  

I'm familiar with the shop, and I've been there a number of times, but that still doesn't explain them taking it all that far.  It seemed they saw it as an opportunity to share some tea and make a special event of it, which was really nice of them.  The one staff I had met, a primary owner, showed up late and swapped in as the shop host, and us trying a few extra really interesting versions late in the session is probably another main thing that extended it.  If you visit there they will try teas with you too, and I suppose if you never leave and keep trying them the count could add up.  

A quick word about good form:  if you taste a tea or two and don't like them there's no obligation to buy the teas, but if you do try a number then it's appropriate to buy at least a little of something.  Or so I see it.

That reminds me of a tangent:  if your tea budget is a little loose I tried an aged brick of Oriental Beauty oolong there once that was really something; you might want to check into that.  That was 8 years old (9 now; that was last year), a half-kilo / 500 gram brick selling for $200.  It sounds like a lot given my budget but that's really inexpensive for aged OB of that quality level (although maybe the price went up too; the price of everything else everywhere did).  Maybe some of the other teas there are selling for rates that aren't as good a value related to market rates, but whenever rarity of a type of version come up there may not be a lot of clear comparisons to be drawn on.  They sell basic factory sheng for reasonable prices, or aged Xiaguan tuochas; that's a nice resource to have.  

It's not unusual for something like aged white tea in Chinatown shops to be whatever it happens to be, something unique related to variable starting point and a random aging input, which is exactly why sorting through options in Chinatown shops is all that much more special than conventional online sourcing.  Not as special when you experience misses along with the hits, but if you are trying what you buy first that helps.

On this visit I bought a couple of basic Taiwanese oolongs to give away to monks, and a standard benchmark version Dayi sheng pu'er cake (8582) to try and probably hold onto for awhile; that's more where my budget lands.  Not according to my wife, who is convinced that I have enough tea, but she's a little more open about teas for that particular gift purpose (monks can't shop for their own tea), and I had to spend a little in thanks after that extensive tasting.  It's a little odd trying a dozen or so really interesting and novel teas and then buying very basic factory sheng, but it's a gap in what I own.

the kids visiting there during covid era