Anti-aging protocol

 

This is something I've ended up discussing a good bit over the past few years, one of many subjects I've become interested in.  My fasting practice ties to an interest in this, even though it started as a result of a chance contact saying that it would bring about spiritual practice benefits (and maybe it did?  hard to say, since that is hard to track).

I'm no expert on avoiding aging effects, but I am a good example of how it can work out.  I'm 56 now and could pass for 40, or maybe even 30-something, and I am active to say the least.  I've just switched my runs back to 12 km per outing, not quite at 3 times per week, but it will level off to at least 30 km / 20 miles per week.  It's hard to justify that I'm more active in general, or more flexible related to being open to new experiences and learning, the less explicit themes related to aging.  It seems so, to me, but it's hard to support that.

56 compared to 16, but I think his genetic potential might be even better

It's strange using yourself as an example like that.  The same general theme came up related to discussing intelligence on Quora before, a favorite topic earlier on.  I'll skip passing on an IQ stat but mine has been tested at significantly higher than the 130 cut-off for grade-school gifted program participation.  People there--Quora--would always claim "intelligent people are less socially oriented," or something such, prone to whatever other malaise, but to me a lot of that ends up being hearsay patterns that don't necessarily hold up in most cases.  Intelligence is like any other aptitude; it can couple with a broad range of personal characters or other aptitudes and weaknesses.  

The nerd or geek persona is separate from intelligence; the two themes may tend to correspond, but they are not tightly causally connected.  Maybe people embracing those character or self-identification themes tend to be above average in intelligence, but it's not as if one is a sign of the other, or that intelligence leads directly to preference of those forms of experience (an interest in sci-fi or computers, etc.).  Somehow it all naturally groups together, that people with certain capacities tend to explore using them in similar ways, but there is no necessary connection.  Plenty of people with sports aptitude are couch potatoes, and plenty of people with very limited athletic potential are still active in sports anyway, they just couldn't excel at the highest levels of competition.

Back to the aging theme; I was responding to this question on Reddit:

If you are aging, what if any supplements did you take in order that you thought might reverse aging or made you feel decades younger again? I mean do you have a sip of certain juice a day or take something to make yourself feel decades younger?

Who isn't aging?  Of course people there recommended diet and exercise, as I did.  But I added some less standard thoughts and practices.

Nothing like that [referring to the magic bullet / take a pill potential], but I can suggest things I know work, for sure, and a couple that might help that are less certain:

exercise: you should try to get at least 3 hours of medium intensity exercise per week. If you want to use weightlifting as this input, to double up on improving muscle conditioning and joint health, you can just increase overall intensity by rushing the sets. Some input should be cardio though; intense beyond walking pace input.

sleep: 8 hours per day is an absolute minimum, unless you somehow don't need much sleep. Coupling a bit of extra sleep with bumping up exercise input will change everything, along with diet change.

diet: cut out processed foods, sugar, junk foods, fast food, unhealthy snacks, etc. Eat natural foods, meats, vegetables and fruits, some whole-grain starch input. Nuts and beans can help with keeping protein intake up, which is important for exercise recovery. You probably don't need to supplement much if your diet is great, but taking a multivitamin couldn't hurt, and some basics like extra magnesium and D.

drugs, cigarettes, alcohol: get away from ingesting any.

tea (onto less certain input): I drink lots of varied tea, of good quality, and that may make a difference (I'm holding up great for being 56). Lots of the polyphenols are probably helpful, along with mineral input. People claim green tea is best for heart health (cardiovascular health), but I think drinking diverse versions would be better, black, green, oolong, sheng pu'er, some hei cha, etc.

goji berry: I eat a little of this daily, re-hydrated dried versions soaked in hot water for some minutes. The extra vitamin A (beta carotine) and xeaxanthin might be most helpful. It's probably good for eye health to also take in a good bit of lutein, but eating leafy green vegetables would cover that.

fasting: this should probably be back in the "certain" grouping. Fasting for 3 to 5 days at a time, at least 4 times per year, could change everything related to aging experience. I think my greying hair reversed mainly because of this input; it had been partly grey, and now isn't. Brain health seems to also improve, mental clarity and memory, which is difficult to achieve.

from 2024, but I don't have many clear photos of myself

Expanding on that:

What about new types of supplements anti-aging gurus promote?  Maybe those could work.  I wouldn't know, since I'm not on any.  I've not even had my hormone levels checked, a far earlier and more basic starting point than taking up hormone inputs or exotic supplements.

What about specific exercise inputs, adjusted sleep forms, less developed supplementation (taking zinc or turmeric / curcumin), specific diet forms (towards keto, Mediterranean, etc.)?  Sure, lots of approaches or inputs might be positive.  Per my understanding being quite active is the main helpful input, walking a lot, doing lots of low intensity activities, like laundry, cutting firewood, walking and hiking, swimming, and so on.  Even gardening, doing lots of very low intensity tasks, supports maintaining flexibility, by forcing you to move in different ways, with significant exposure level.

Getting some sun alone could be helpful.  It could be hard separating causes and effects, related to an input like that.  If someone were to swap out lying motionless while watching streamed video content for walking in the sun they'd never know which input helped most, the sun, the walking, or just not lying motionless.

I think diet alone has the most potential for change, especially if someone is on the standard American diet.  I've been moving back and forth between Bangkok and Honolulu and it takes a lot more focus to maintain a decent diet here (I'm in Hawaii just now).  In Bangkok fresh fruit is sold everywhere, exotic and delicious tropical versions, and even street foods can be relatively healthy, those literally sold from carts out on the sidewalks.  And inexpensive; it costs $20 for just about any meal in Hawaii, and probably over $30 if it's actually healthy.  

"Juicing" has lots of potential; drinking a bit of mixed vegetable juice every day, as the kind of extra bump the original question was asking about.  I practiced that at two different times in my life, probably over a period of at least a half dozen years, or maybe closer to a decade.  I was also a vegetarian for 17 years; maybe that helped?  Often with special diets the inclination to avoid some inputs, like over-eating, or junk foods, might be more important than what you actually consume.  A vegetarian and keto or carnivore diet might end up providing similar benefits for similar reasons, for those limitations, even though the apparent diet input is completely opposite.  Maintaining moderate body weight could be the overall main factor, in limiting aging, and eating a good diet and exercising could help lead to this, but from different directions.

Of course exercise inputs have plenty of potential too.  My health radically improved when I took up running, back at 50, and it improved again when I conditioned enough to ramp up training intensity and volume.  Swimming here in Hawaii has seemed to improve my muscle tone and flexibility quite a bit.  Doing yoga when I was 50 to 52 made a lot of difference, but Covid closed our local favorite yoga studio, so I let that go.

I swim in a swim lane between coral reefs not far from here

Fasting practice is especially promising.  It's too long a subject to add much more about why I think it helps (in a word, autophagy), or approaches that might be best.

I can't really place tea as a positive input either.  Research evidence of tea being quite healthy is very mixed in forms and results.  It probably is, but it's not the simplest thing to test for, and there is limited academic interest in reviewing that, since there is limited corporate commercial interest in leveraging tea sales as a health input.  In the US health care of sick people is far more profitable than preventing illness, especially through inexpensive food inputs.  There's a lot one might consider in relation to Traditional Chinese Medicine perspective on how tea is healthy, and in what optimum forms, which would vary by individual related to best fit or best overall balance.  I drank a lot of tisanes from the age of 22 up to 40; it's not just "real tea" that would have a lot of potential. 

Health risks related to tea are a potential concern, but there isn't a lot to look out for.  Caffeine intake should only go so far, and fluoride input is something to think through.  If you drink high quality tea (less mass-produced, chemical supported growth versions) risks from pesticides and heavy metal inputs are probably quite limited.  There are outliers claiming there are more significant, common risks to avoid, but in my opinion as long as you don't take a "more is better" approach to input tea is very safe.  Consuming up to 20 grams per day of it should be fine.  

You can offset any potential risks by varying types and sources.  You could maximize those risks in the opposite way, buying a kilogram of the most inexpensive, questionable tea you can find from an Indian or Chinese market source, maximizing your contact with those somewhat rare inputs by concentrating the same exposure form.  I don't necessarily trust all the "wild origin" claims I hear, but if half of the tea I consume really is of that form that seems positive, and at this point most of what I drink is represented as such.

One might wonder what all of this is based on, beyond my own personal experience, and where it ends, what aging is likely to be like in one's 70s or 80s, if all goes well.  My parents have observed many of these practices, and are in great health at nearly 80.  Many of my family members lived healthy lives well into their 90s (which of course introduces a potential genetic input).  My Thai mother-in-law is from a family where people tend to not experience much of their 60s and she is holding up well at over 80 now.  Activity seemed to make a difference, and decent diet.  Her sleep regimen is awful, and she never does significant cardio stress exercise; one might get away with letting one of these positive inputs drop.  Her mobility is severely limited now; any gap may come at a price.

I hope that some of this is helpful to others.  There's more I could add about perspective shift that might help, about meditation as an input, for example, but I'll get back to that kind of thing more later.

my wife Eye also holds up pretty well in spite of only experiencing some of these themes

Return to Hawaii; hiking to Mt. Olympus in Oahu

 

I've not been putting any focus on tea lately, returning to live with my kids in Honolulu a week or so ago.  It's been a busy week, and a busy month before that getting ready back in Bangkok.  I don't have so many deep, insightful thoughts to share so I'll add a bit on random impressions and then focus more on an interesting hike we just did.  I didn't even leave myself much interesting for a tea stash from last year; an old Xiaguan cake will be nice to drink, and the rest was mostly samples.

It was nice spending time at the Incheon, Korean airport during a layover on the way.  We often transit through Haneda in Japan, flying JAL, but this time I took Asiana, so transited in Korea.  Both are kind of equivalent; both are spacious, with decent services, and so much extra seating that it's not a problem to find a quiet gate area and lay down on an open row of seats for a nap.  They both have a decent amount of power cord stations, so that's not an issue.  Food options are fine at both, but I tend to eat snacks more than meals in between airline food meals.

One problem came up:  Korea doesn't have the same degree of tea culture, so there were no hot water dispensers for tea in that airport.  Of course coffee shops might give you some, or sell it to you, and there are lounges, mostly for business or first class customers, but it's not the same as in Japanese airports, or all over the place in China.  I cold-brewed a tea bag I'd brought of pu'er cake scraps, the extra bits that throw off brewing if you include that with separated more whole leaves.  It kind of worked.  As a parent it was tempting to walk into a baby care room to use hot water in one, since I'd spent so many years with free access to those places, which provide filtered hot water, but it just didn't seem right.

Related to the relocation reverse culture shock is always an interesting theme and experience.  I've lived in Honolulu three times over the last 2 1/2 years or so, generally for this same time period, for about 2 1/2 months.  I went to grad school in Honolulu so I'd lived here quite awhile ago for 2 years.

It's not so much that appearances, expectations, and experiences are so different that I need to adjust to them, it's just about things seeming different.  Then jet lag adds to that.  People look different, of course, but most people are Asian, which of course matches Bangkok.  Clothing styles are different, there are homeless people here (and not so much there), and the beach resort theme is different.  I love Hawaii, but I feel a little more at home in Bangkok, even though in general I hate large cities.  I lived in a ski resort area for a long time in Colorado, so that's familiar, being where others vacation, but it can also seem a little odd, when it's all your daily life instead.

I haven't ran yet; I've been quite busy, and jet lag made the first days rough [although I did twice, in between first writing this and editing, since I'm slow to post this].  The kids had spring break for the first half a week, so I spent every minute with them, the only way that would go.  I'd missed them terribly, even more than I miss the cats at home now.  Running is much nicer here; the air is clean, and much cooler, and it's breezy, with everywhere you go looking a bit like a postcard.

That hike

the top, from near the top

Of course it started with a late start; how else would it start ? I woke up really early (back to the jet lag theme) and walked up Kapiolani road to get malasadas at Leonard's bakery, at 6:30, and then by the time everyone else woke, ate, and made plans we didn't catch a bus until 10:30.  Kalani visited a friend instead, so only Keo and I hiked.  We had planned to do an easy route, up the St. Louis heights ridgeline to transition to Manoa valley, walking over the one side.  But then we talked and cruised on the walk up to that turn-off, and met an older guy there (79), who recommended that it would be a good day to go up to Mt. Olympus, because it's dry out now, so it wouldn't be muddy.  We really didn't bring even close to enough water to do that route, 1.5 liters between us, but we went up anyway.

We kept up a good pace over the next moderate section, not really pushing it, but eventually it got steep, and it was harder to keep effort level moderate to avoid sweating.  It took about an hour and a half from that trail branch, a bit difficult near the top, with ropes to hold while climbing steep sections, but we made it up.  The views were amazing.  We could see the next island over (Molokai, probably), and the other side of Oahu, Kaneohe on the east.  The pictures will tell that story.

Then we cruised down, trying to keep a good pace and moderate effort level.  That got harder as we dropped into the Manoa valley, with all that distance getting to us.  We were parched as we caught a bus, off to a McDonald's for a value meal, and cup after cup of Hi-C orange drink, after the first round of water.  It was really something.  

It was odd fitting the image of a homeless person so well on that McDonald's visit.  I was covered in dirt from using ropes to stabilize myself on really steep terrain, climbing up natural steps embedded in mostly dried mud.  I smelled terrible from sweating, and was a bit out of it.  There is no clear point to this part, no extra insight about taking up that social image; it was just odd.

Of course it involves adjustment getting back to this life, all the family dynamics, and extra demands.  Eye has been working a lot so I fill in most of the gaps, making meals, doing laundry, and making sure that kids' activities include outdoor time.  Keoni and I have swam out to a flag in a swim lane twice, 200+ meters / yards out in the ocean.  We met an old high school acquaintance once, on the beach to see fireworks (which were out of view; we were in the wrong place).  It has been nice.  I miss family, cats, and life in Bangkok, but being with the kids is worth all of that.

this looked to be a bit higher

Honolulu, mostly Waikiki, from pretty far up, showing the steps of the trail

the Manoa valley and Waikiki below

the east side (Kaneohe) from near the top

Keo!  no Kalani on this outing, which helped with the questionable call to summit that day

where I always take Kalani's photo

the trail beginning

A pleasant tea meetup with a nice tasting lineup

 

only 5 of the 7 who attended; I forgot to take the picture earlier

Friends gathered at our house again to try some teas, probably the last of a series of a half-dozen somewhat related meetups.  Three meetups were held where I live (in Bangkok, for now, in Honolulu soon), or four, if you also count a couple of friends dropping by in January (visit vs. meetup; not so different).  

To me those are mostly about the people joining experiencing the teas, and appreciating interacting with others, more than a formal tasting theme.  I could have said ten times as much about the teas, at the cost of most of that interaction dropping out.  Even doubling the limited information and input would shift the tone, from a friendly gathering of friends to more of an educational experience.  That's fine too, but when people first meet each other it's better if they can chat a good bit, and people joining has always included some of them repeating and some being new arrivals.  To me it's important for them to be able to express themselves, and for it to be about all of them, more than the teas.  I don't find myself as interesting because I already know those stories.

Interacting with the people was as pleasant as the teas, or more so for me, because I've already tried those teas.  But the teas themselves were exceptional, interesting for different reasons, and more of a sensible tasting theme or pattern emerged this time.  We talked more about whatever tangents came up, and our own backgrounds.  One person had traveled a lot (and many participants have been nomads throughout the various meetups), another was coming to tea from a drink-mixing background, and one was a long-term local resident working in freelance writing, with a diverse background.  So fascinating!  

Two friends I keep meeting are teachers, who alternate working and traveling, with one working on finishing a Master's thesis now.  One friend in attendance, who I've met a couple of times, is a Zen meditation instructor, although we didn't seem to get into that part so much.  That might not be an easy subject to say just a little about.  As usual people were from all over:  the US, Canada, Germany, and Italy, with a longer list of where they've also lived.

This writing is more about the teas instead; I won't summarize the rest about all that.  Mentioning what the teas were, and adding reference links, would help them see what we had tried again, and to me the sequence was interesting.  We keep trying different patterns of experiences, beyond generally moving from lighter to heavier tea character range.  This struck a balance between that kind of pattern and generally just trying what I like, with a secondary focus on the teas being novel.  It worked.

1.  Mao Feng Qimen, Chinese black tea (from Dylan Conroy of the Sweetest Dew, not reviewed, but here are other related versions reviewed):  I missed trying the last sample Dylan had sent of exceptional Qimen, and this was a good time to get to it.  

More ordinary Qimen is just another standard commercial black tea, but versions do vary.  I guess this was made from the plant type used to make Mao Feng, a main green tea type (or at least that seems to make the most sense).  It was heavy on buds, quite refined, complex, and pleasant in flavor, including cacao and a bit of soft malt.  It's not light in the sense that a rolled oolong would be, but the warm tone doesn't make it a challenging tea, and I didn't feel like starting all the way "back" at green tea or light rolled oolong, even though I have those around.  I like black teas better, and I wanted to get on to more sheng pu'er tasting this time.

not that tea, but two other exceptional Qimen from Dylan

2.  Dian Hong (Yunnan) style Thai black tea from Aphiwat, a 2024 version, from wild origin material (reviewed here, with a contact link to the producer here).  This is a tea I've been drinking regularly for awhile, and one we've tried in another tasting version, or maybe even two of them.  It's a lot like Dian Hong tend to be:  complex in flavor, expressing a lot of positive range (cacao, etc.), with good mineral depth, and good balance.  Part of the range could seem to include sourness to some (Huyen didn't really like it, or Dian Hong in general), but I love it.  

It's funny how I'm a bit put off by tartness in a black tea, but one leaning a little towards a sour range is still fine.  To me you wouldn't normally make this connection in trying this tea (seeing it as sour), but when you think about it that kind of works, and for people only adjusted to trying variety Sinensis black tea versions the difference could be off-putting, as it is for Huyen.  I just had it with breakfast, on the day I'm editing this; it's also great with food.

that Thai black tea

3.  local Vietnamese sheng (2024 from Quang Tom, reviewed here):  I love this tea!  I loved the 2023 version, and this 2024 version might be a little better.  It's quite oxidized, which is strange for sheng in general, but not so unusual for SE Asian versions.  According to Seth--mentioned in this blog many times, someone who looks into Vietnamese teas a lot, and researches them along with Huyen--that might be a normal step for Vietnamese sheng processing.  I've talked to this producer and it's intentional.

A tea version essentially in between sheng and black tea probably wouldn't age well, past just changing a little over a couple of years, but if those first years are positive enough that doesn't matter.  I drank a 2023 cake version pretty fast, and I'd drink this 2024 cake I own faster, but it's the second one I bought, and I don't want it to go as fast as the first did.  Tones are warmer than for conventional sheng, of course, and bitterness and astringency are limited, but plenty of fruit stands out.  It helps to push it just a bit to get the intensity up to the normal crazy sheng level, but you can push it as much as you want, since there is nothing negative to brew around.

2023 was pressed a little too hard (left), but the 2024 form is perfect

4.  Viet Sun Son La Vietnamese sheng (2023 version, reviewed here):  I really like this tea too; it's also the second cake I'm on for this same version.  I don't mind the repetition at all, or that I've been drinking Thai sheng from Aphiwat over and over as well.  I try plenty related to the blog review theme, and it's nice drinking favorites beyond that.  It helps keep my tea budget moderate too, but this cake is in the normal price range, I think, probably listing for around $80 now ($77; I checked during editing).  I bought it for one price increase less than that a year ago, and also the year before, so I think it's worth it. 

It's a bit more challenging than the first sheng we tried; it includes conventional sheng bitterness and astringency, just not the most ordinary flavor range.  To me it expresses more fruit than floral tones.  It made for a nice tasting sequence already, bridging from two types of black tea onto a hybrid sheng, then one that's more conventional, but not necessarily completely standard related to most Yunnan forms.

the Son La Viet Sun cake

5.  Man Xi 2008 sheng pu'er sample:  (finally back to using that second term)  I don't know what this is, or who gave me this; I grabbed about 20 teas from samples or favorites that we might try, and aged sheng somehow fit at this time.  Another I almost brewed instead was slightly older "factory" tea, a numbered CNNP or Taetea version (if I checked the number again I'd know; if it ends in 1 that's CNNP / Zhongcha and 2 that's Taetea / Menghai Tea Factory), as Google's AI explains:

First two digits: The year the recipe was developed

Third digit: The grade of the raw tea leaves, or maocha. The scale ranges from 0 to 9, with 0 being the smallest and 9 being the largest

Fourth digit: The factory that produced the tea

For example, a tea cake with the recipe number 7542 was developed in 1975 and made with fourth-grade tea leaves by the Menghai Tea Factory. The Menghai Tea Factory is one of the most famous producers of Pu'erh tea in China. 

Somehow it seemed likely this would be more of a boutique range version, which can be interesting, and definitely more refined.  It was like that.  I know no background related to this version or that area, but I'll cite a source describing another tea that might parallel it, or it might not:

Our 2007 Organic Manxi Mountain Raw Pu’er Cake uses sun-dried Shaiqinmao tea leaves (Yunnan big-leaf variety) from ancient tea trees grown on the organic tea plantations of the Manxi Mountain area. It is produced by Fuhai Tea Factory in Menghai County, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan.

The Manxi Mountain area is located at the Sino-Burmese border in the district of Daluo Town, Menghai County. It features a large group of very old large-leaf tea trees, planted by the Blang people over 500 years ago.

People keep buying aged sheng to find versions like this one, unless they really need super high complexity and intensity, as factory versions exhibit, if they don't mind rough edges that can go with those others.  Or this more refined version is another type of offering, more subtle, but potentially still well-balanced, or other 25 year old teas in a broader range might have settled but haven't faded.

Some aged sheng does just fade, if the type isn't suitable for this 17 year old, relatively transitioned range, but the intensity in this was ok, pretty good.  Not necessarily on the high side for intensity; it was quite drinkable and refined, but also a bit subdued.  Tones could've been a little warmer; maybe it hadn't been in wet storage for a lot of that time, which tends to emphasize that.  

For us not really focusing in on those teas as much as we might have I don't think most people picked up on just how good this tea was (although one person mentioned it), but that's all relative anyway.  I thought it was a bit exceptional, based on patterns of my own expectations, related to prior experience.  But then I also commented how I liked a 2006 Xiaguan 8653 version more, one we tried together two weeks ago, even though we all agreed it had a strong "barnyard" taste.  A clean version of that, mind you, like horse saddle, not like aged barn or manure smell.

that cake, which I really like, commonly sold in lots of outlets (the Xiaguan, not Man Xi)

6.  Oriental Leaf Fu "brick" (cake) hei cha (from 2020), with golden flowers (reviewed here, with the vendor page here; I think this was the Fengqing version, not the Lincang origin one):

This was quite a shift, moving from pretty good aged sheng on to novel hei cha.  That adds a lot of rough edges and rustic tone, but this tea type is pleasant, and interesting.

The golden flowers input is positive, and pleasant, while definitely unusual, related to most other tea experience.  It's hard to describe; it's a little like yeasty, fresh baked bread, just not exactly like that.  Maybe it leans toward floral and spice range at the same time, while based on warm tones.  While trying the next round, the one after this, I kept this tea brewing to try a really strong infusion version, and that was completely different, still approachable, but almost shockingly intense, heavy on mineral layer and those other flavors.

lots of mold on that Fu cake, which is considered a good thing

7.  1991 Thai (Wawee) Liu Bao:  (from a friend, so there is no link or review of this) aged tea is interesting, how it picks up depth, and smooths out any rough edges that were ever present.  For powering through a half dozen teas prior to this, and not slowing the pace, probably that novelty and depth didn't really come across so clearly.  

This seemed like pretty good aged Liu Bao, how those should be, expressing that set of typical interesting and complementary flavors.  It tasted like Liu Bao, just an aged-mellowed version of one, as it should have.  To me prior to relatively complete aging Liu Bao a harsher edge and flavor like cement blocks can stand out, but this had moved past that, to the extent it ever included it.

8.  2024 Na Lang Laos sheng, from Farmerleaf (reviewed here, with the vendor page here):  this is a recent favorite, shared by William Osmont on his somewhat recent visit here.  It's really good, probably the best Laos sheng that I've tried, and I've probably tried at least 15 versions of that.  It's bright, positive in flavor range, well balanced, clean, complex, and intense.  A couple of people noted that it was their favorite so far in the tasting (so overall, it being the last one), and it was mine as well.  

It was interesting moving from light to heavy across that whole sequence, and then back-tracking to this version, and upping the quality level a little at the same time.  Those other teas were already good, good examples of those types.  But dynamic, intense, and balanced sheng is something else.  

Surely there is other sheng out there that can seem to take the next step in different directions; I've had versions like that, some from those highly desirable origins, and others from more ordinary places, that just happened to be really good.  It was interesting hearing people try to place what aspects or character made this different, and that good.  Interpretations always vary, and it's not as if one could be objectively right more than any other (although it can seem like that to some).

the Farmerleaf Na Lang Laos sheng

It was a good place to leave off.  8 versions is a lot of tea, and we weren't tasting the first 2 or 3 infusions, and moving on, we were really drinking the teas.  I brewed all that in a 200 ml gaiwan, stacking (mixing) infusions every time, either 2 or 3, usually 3, so we lost a little in terms of noticing transition sequences, but gained ground in keeping up a pace, and just drinking some tea.  Even drinking 4 more isolated infusions of each--not mixing them, and only drinking a little--would relate to 32 rounds in total.  The tasting ran long, but not as long as that approach would have taken, more like 4 hours instead of the planned 3.

Snacks worked out well too; there is a good bakery not far from our house (Little Home), and what they produce is often made in small item forms that work well, tiny croissants filled with sausage, small cream puffs and egg tarts, and so on.  You can't really drink a good bit of 8 versions of tea, and many of those intense versions at that, without that sort of adjustment, eating something to offset it.  One person brought a mango, and pistachios; those sorts of inputs are nice to add variety.

It made for a nice experience, both related to all those teas and focus on conversation and appreciating the rest of the group together.

one of the earlier meetups, with Huyen and Seth at the bottom (who I kept mentioning)

Cinnamon and Almond fragrance Dan Cong

This reviews two more Dan Cong versions from an ITea World sample set.  Earlier versions were amazing, much better than I could have expected.  This will continue that or not; we'll see.  This is from their website information about it:

That set lists for $80 ($79.99), but that vendor seems to routinely offer themed discounts, so it would be around that, maybe a little less.  Ordinarily 80 cents a gram is a lot for teas, of most types, but for really good Dan Cong that's probably fair.  These teas would be hard to find, at any price.

It's a little odd that the Chinese names for these aren't included; one would just expect that.  It doesn't mean that much to me, but I suppose others would feel differently about it.  It's easy enough to look that up, if you know where, cited here from the Tea Obsession blog (thanks Imen!):

Yu Lan Xiang - magnolia flower fragrance 玉蘭香

Huang Zhi Xiang - orange flower fragrance 黄枝香

Xing Ren Xiang - Almond flavor 杏仁香

Zhi Lan Xiang - Orchid fragrance 芝蘭香

Mi4 Lan Xiang - Honey Orchid fragrance 蜜蘭香

Gui Hua Xiang - Osmanthus fragrance 桂花香

You Hua Xiang - Pomelo/grapefruit flower fragrance 柚花香

Jiang Hua Xiang - Ginger flower fragrance 姜花香

Rou Gui Xiang - Cinnamon flavor (not the same as Wuyi Rou Gui) 肉桂香

Mi3 Lan Xiang - Milan flower fragrance 米蘭香 - tinny grain size yellow flowering plant from the southern provinces of China)

Interesting it would be called Rou Gui, but that makes sense.  That Wuyi Yancha type would be familiar to many (which translates as cinnamon).

Review:

Cinnamon:  that definitely tastes like cinnamon.  It would be nice if I could identify true cinnamon versus cassia (I think it is), the close variation that gets passed for cinnamon.  Beyond the cinnamon this is a bit vegetal.  Intuitively a cinnamon flavored version, one that naturally covers that range, would be a slightly more oxidized version, roasted to a medium level, using the extra warmth and sweetness to pair with and highlight that flavor.  That's not really the case for this.  

It's still good; the lighter style of Dan Cong is nice, and it shows off other parts of the tea character well.  Along with the lighter range there is a touch of tree-bud or green wood flavor, and a bit of astringency.  It's not pronounced, and integrates fairly well, so it's not overly negative.  Intensity is good in this; I'll need to keep brewing time limited or it could be too much.  I let this go a little long so it wouldn't be too light, but ended up brewing this round a bit strong.

Almond:  yep, almond.  This has much warmer, richer, deeper tones; it is more oxidized, and perhaps a little more roasted.  There isn't really vegetal range to speak of as a result.  Sweetness is good, as it was for the other version.  Depth of flavors beyond that almond range is nice.  There is good complexity to this, and it all balances well.  Feel might be slightly richer than the first as well.

It's that greater complexity and balance that makes it stand out over the other, at least at this point.  But the flavor range itself is interesting and positive too, beyond just covering some ground.  It leans a little towards spice tones, almost nutmeg, or actually that works as an interpretation.  To me nutmeg comes across as a fairly complex spice flavor, and this matches that, it's not simple.  It might even work to interpret one part of this as cinnamon.  The processing seems to have highlighted the potential of this tea very well.  The first lighter style can really draw out bright and fresh floral tones, but it may not be as suitable for this material version.  Of course that's on to guessing; I'm not qualified to conclude that.

Cinnamon #2:  this works better brewed lighter, which may also relate to the tea softening up a little on the second infusion.  In a recent tasting the subject of how different infusions vary came up, which we really didn't pursue far in talking then, but to me that just varies by tea type, and by version.  The old theme of "second is best" might work in a limited sense, but it's also too simple.  It depends on how any given version is transitioning across rounds.

A perfume-like floral range really kicks in for this.  Cinnamon isn't as noticeable this round.  It's still present, but only at the same level as other inputs.  Feel is richer even though this is brewed much lighter.  A vegetal edge has faded some, dropping to a more positive level.  To be clear this doesn't include a characteristic harsh edge some lower quality Dan Cong express, the type that you need to brew around by brewing rounds very light (even lighter than this, maybe).  I infused this for about 10 seconds, but a flash infusion would be different.

Almond:  this is so good.  The other is nice, very pleasant, complex, balanced, and interesting, but this is just better, across most of those dimensions.  Part of that could be my preference for this warmer toned style, but I also think it's just a better tea, or at least the processing optimized outcome better.  Everything stands out at once, all of those general themes, and sweetness, warm tones, complex pleasant flavors (almond and spice), rich feel, good intensity, etc.  

Almond with spice sounds like some sort of cookie range, doesn't it?  It's like that.  That warmth, richness, and depth almost comes across as a butter based shortbread cookie too.  This would be really fantastic to drink during cool weather, to actually pair with a winter holidays theme.  It's probably in the mid-80s F (30 C), and quite humid where I am now, but it's still nice, it would just match that cooler environment range better.  To me bright, sweet, aggressive but drinkable sheng pu'er matches the experience of heat well.

Cinnamon #3:  I'll stick with relatively fast infusions for now, again at about 10 seconds.  This is as good as the last round, still really hitting its stride.  The brighter, fresher, now only slightly vegetal edge, more into hardwood range, isn't really negative, but not necessarily positive either.  It integrates fairly well with the rest, but it's not as pleasant as the cinnamon and floral tones.  Overall balance is good.  To me this is still pretty good quality Dan Cong, but it doesn't match the level of the other version.  Again, maybe that's preference related?  Seems not, but maybe.

Almond:  the last description still works, all those positive things I was saying about this.  The almond flavor you notice early on, then a heavy and complex spice range kicks in, then as that fades the almond comes back out more again in the aftertaste.  It's funny how a tea experience can be like an almond cookie, as I mentioned, but the experience is so much more complex and refined.  Of course an almond cookie tastes exactly like an almond cookie, but the depth of feel, richness, layering of floral tones, and touch of liqueur-like character all go well beyond what a cookie could deliver.  Or maybe adding a little cognac in a cookie would be good?

I'm sure that these will transition a little more over the next couple of rounds, but I may not get back to making notes on that.  I had a big breakfast and don't feel ok with powering through 8 to 10 cups of these just now.  Breakfast was very pleasant, and quite healthy:  oatmeal with raisin and banana, two fried eggs, some fruit that seems like a cross of mango and plum, and a bit of goji berry.  I'll go do something related to getting all of this to digest some.

Of course I tried rounds later, and the teas were still very nice, but not varied enough to add much about that here.

The same is true of conclusions in general; the teas were as described.  The Cinnamon version was good and Almond version really good.  

The Almond version was good enough that it's hard to put it on a scale.  There are layers and sub-themes that come into play, beyond pleasant flavor.  These include feel (body), intensity, sweetness, overall balance, depth, aftertaste, and marker sort of aspects, like a liqueur-like quality.  I suppose that any tea could be better, but this is pretty far up there, beyond what I can place in relation to others.

Then the flavors were interesting too, and balanced well with each other.  It's still only tea, but the really interesting experiences are something else.

Does tea attract a certain type of people?

 

A Reddit post just brought up this theme (here, Does tea attract a certain type of people?).  It's a great question.  Their speculation included adding this, cited in its entirety because this framing is really helpful:

I drink a lot in tea rooms and like to just sit and listen to people talk. Mostly there's a certain type around me though. Students, hippie people, artists, long-haired men, older liberal arts professors etc. I've never had anything like that happen in a coffee shop. Do you also feel like tea is attracted to a certain culture, that maybe goes against consumerism as opposed to people who drink coffee?

I commented this, and I'll add a little more here:

It is appealing to a range of different people, but it might not be a broad range. I've been writing a blog about tea for 11 years, and active in tea groups for longer, meeting people locally who are into tea, and this theme keeps coming up.

That list works for a start; hippies and tea kind of pair naturally. For some reason 30 or so year old guys working in IT can connect with tea, in plenty of cases. My guess is that it's easy to burn out on overdoing it with coffee, and there's a lot of novel experience to be had with tea, and a lot to learn. The "figuring it out" aspect can be appealing, to some.

People with somewhat liberal inclinations, who aren't necessarily hippies, can also naturally connect with tea. It helps being into nature themes, Eastern or foreign cultures, and to some extent aesthetics, since those are subjects that can overlap.

More conservative but open minded, typically older individuals can also get the appeal. For this approach point the exclusivity might connect, more than foreign cultural association. It's possible to learn, know things, and experience things that aren't really easily accessible to others; taken in one way tea can connect with status. Ownership of a collection of valuable clay tea pots might be part of the appeal, approached this way. Any of these people could wear an Asian oriented robe while drinking tea, or martial arts type clothing, but for most this wouldn't apply.

Some common characteristics are implied there:  openness to atypical experience, tendency for exploration, cultural openness, and individual connection with one or more parts of the tea experience (flavor / food oriented, tied to Asian culture, problem solving related to learning about types or brewing approach, appeal related to exclusivity, or ownership of hard to access range of goods or teas).  On the aesthetic side someone might want to wear Asian oriented clothing, or in a more common form they might just like drinking tea outside in nature.  

Drinking tea can be a meditative experience; coffee is perfect for picking up a to-go drink that travels well, and for one range of tea experience spending a half an hour or an hour appreciating multiple infusions of an exceptional version is a main point.  It's easy to see how aesthetics and other factors could adjoin that.

(also included in that post as a comment):  

At tea tasting last month in Bangkok, with people from all over the world. they didn't share one theme in common (besides liking tea), but openness to new experiences and cultural expression seemed common. No one really represented the "hippie" type, but two people covered some limited aspects of that general range (no, not the woman wearing a scarf).

One interesting tangent of all this is how it's natural for people who are into tea to expect some degree of shared experience, and perspective.  It seems like all "tea enthusiasts" go through making this assumption, then probably adjust it later on when they realize that it really does apply, in part, but then to some extent it also doesn't.

I never fully addressed the initial point that people into tea might oppose consumerism, which the OP linked to coffee interest, the person who initiated that group discussion.  Indirectly I rejected it, saying that one sub-segment of people into tea actually lean into purchasing exotic, costly tea types and teaware, using purchasing and ownership as a status symbol.  But at the same time that initial opposition to consumer culture kind of works, for many others.  People into tea tend to want to own a limited, basic set of gear for brewing a couple of different ways, and then it's less common for that to translate into a cycle of continual collection.  That does come up, but not for most.  Pu'er enthusiasts tend to collect the actual tea, since that type changes and can improve with age.  

Let's consider a limited example, from someone in that earlier picture who is one of my absolute favorite "tea friends."  I'm talking about Huyen, in Vietnam; this post works as well as any for an introduction to who she is, even though it's a bit dated now, and there's more to tell.

So what are we looking at here?  Obviously they collect teaware, and are into the aesthetic side.  But to me this doesn't represent a status-oriented pursuit of self-definition, a way to place themselves above others who also like tea, by owning things.  They are unusually into the aesthetic side of tea experience.  This didn't stem from a somewhat recent urge to collect that tea gear, versus focus on the experience; their family connection to tea goes way back.  

They don't share that much in common with American liberals though, related to the generality framed in the original post question.  That US left / right liberal / conservative divide wouldn't even be familiar to them, in the same sense it is to Americans.

Next one might wonder how much difference it makes preparing tea in this sort of teaware, versus using a very basic set-up.  Use of clay pots is functional, and it does change things, so that part isn't mostly aesthetic, even if partly so.

The aesthetic part of the experience adds a layer of function, I would expect.  When I mentioned that many people love combining tea experience with an outdoor setting I meant that it changes what you experience, the tone of it, how it feels.  If I drink tea outside, and I often do, on a cool and pleasant day it's quite different than having it at the dining room table.  Birds, a breeze, plants, natural sunlight; all of these add a slightly different dimension.  The same must be occurring in that comfortable and aesthetically pleasing tea room, in that photo.

This might come across as a little odd, but Huyen's family isn't smiling for that photo, they are expressing how they feel at that moment, and typically seem a lot more relaxed and joyful than just about anyone I've ever met with online.  And of course I meet Huyen in person from time to time; she's in the other picture before that, and in others I'm sharing here.  I don't think all that tea gear brings them this joy, but their lives seem to integrate in a positive way.  They seem radiant.  My take is that it stems from living in sync with their own core principles, and appreciating the connections they have with others, and with varying life experiences.  Surely tea is a part of that.  

Let's go a little further, with another photo example:

Huyen again!  And Seth, another good friend, at the bottom.  This was a meetup at our house, appreciating interesting teas in an outdoor setting (using really basic teaware).

This reminds me of a part of the initial intro to this topic, not addressed specifically there, about discussion forms or range that might go with drinking tea (where that intro was instead about the people doing the talking).  We sometimes discuss a lot about the actual teas, and I've written about these meetups in this blog, and cover some of that, but more often it's just personal discussion, about background, perspective, life events, and so on.  Politics comes up, but discussion tends to steer back off that relatively quickly, as a relevant subject that's not any more interesting than others.  

I guess that it's not so different than when anyone meets for any reason, to talk about anything.  But the shared perspective and experience theme somehow stands out, that travel themes come up, and cultural issues, philosophy and religion, and so on.  I'm sort of implying that everyone has more broad interests and experiences than average, but that's not really what I mean.  It's that these layers of experience seem to come to light, and to be seen as novel and interesting, where something like more mundane travel experience could just be about sharing having had experiences, without peeling back the layers of what those tended to mean.  

Why is an old Laos night market experience novel and appealing, maybe different than a modern Bangkok version of the same thing?  Hard to say, but one could speculate, and share perspective on that.  It's something about feel, and historical context experienced in the present, about a unique setting, and a local culture.

that's Korea; it's completely different

I have a photo with baby Keoni in it just like this (a Luang Prabang market; photo credit)

There's an inclination many travel-oriented tea enthusiasts share to seek out the original, earlier, more authentic tea experience.  It brings people to tea production areas, and old sections of remote Chinatowns, to old shops and tea houses.  

There is novel perspective and deep history out there.  But eventually all of that seems to connect people back to their own present-day life experiences, later on, after they process all of that.  They see that it's all about appreciating the moment, and connections with others, or to a place, or natural environment.  It's about the present continuing and extending the experiences people valued in the past.  It's this journey that can be particularly interesting, to share with others, and to hear of their version of it.

some people are living embodiments of older tea traditions; I see Cindy in this way

This reminds me of some of my own starting points; I'll share a couple here.  One early intro came from a work trip, a visit to Shenzhen, China, seeing a Gong Fu tea presentation at an IT product demonstration area there:

That may not have been the most authentic presentation of that cultural background, perhaps packaged and adjusted just a little, used as background for that other main sales scope theme, but most of what they shared was completely genuine and valid.

the Wonosari tea plantation, on Java, Indonesia. 

I don't travel specifically related to tea, doing family trips instead, but I have seen it growing a few times.  That kind of experience and connection could be especially meaningful to tea enthusiasts.  In that area shown in the photo, in Java, Indonesia, it ties back to the older Dutch history, and on to what modern people experience, and how their tea culture is currently changing.  As tea culture is transitioning everywhere, and many aspects of many local cultures are.  Tea related experience can make for an interesting lens to view those layers of changes through.

Let's take this in a more controversial direction before closing; there can be a darker side to cultural transitions.  All sorts of people would love all sorts of travel experiences, and older cultures and history can end up being packaged for consumption in all sorts of ways (as tea history was in an IT equipment vending demonstration center).

This represents Polynesian cultures being interpreted and presented for appreciation in a popular Oahu, Hawaii based theme park.  Looked at one way there is nothing controversial or questionable about this; these parts of those local traditions are very well-grounded in earlier and relatively recent history.  But this could seem like a caricature of those forms and images, to others, as an example of appropriation.

It's definitely presented for-profit, which isn't necessarily problematic, but that opens the door to a possible tendency to package what works well, maybe even adjusting that content a little, and skip over parts that aren't so relatable.  Did colonization destroy some of that earlier cultural experience and expression?  Surely it did.  This park is owned and ran by Mormons; I suppose that framing doesn't help.  They recruit younger Polynesian adults to work in the park, which sort of helps, but in one sense that's better and in another potentially worse.

I'm not saying that tea history is being obliterated while being re-packaged for Western consumption, but history and culture is always being overwritten, to a certain extent.  Hopefully tea exploration, and especially tea tourism, takes on forms that continue to value what really occurred in the past, and honors and preserves the modern living cultures.  This is the kind of thing I tend to find people at tea meetups most interested in discussing; how what came before translates into interesting experiences and perspectives that are available now.