2013 and 2022 Xiao Ba Wang (Mang Jing and Jing Mai) sheng pu'er

 

I'm reviewing another two versions of the Legend of Tea flagship branded sheng pu'er type, this time the 2013 and 2022 years.  The teas are from different origins each year, so the 2013 is from Mang Jing and the 2022 from Jing Mai.  Mang Jing isn't familiar; let's check what Google's AI response thinks that is:

Mangjing Mountain Pu'er refers to Pu'er tea produced in the Mangjing area of Jingmai Mountain, a region known for its ancient tea forests and unique tea varieties. Specifically, the tea trees in Mangjing are a natural hybrid of Assamica, referred to as Mixed-Leaf varietal, which contributes to the tea's sweetness and aroma. Jingmai Mountain as a whole is recognized for its large, well-preserved, and ancient tea forests, with some trees being hundreds or even thousands of years old. 

So it is just a local area in the broader Jing Mai region, according to that source.  Plant types varying some in different areas is a normal, recurring theme, but also one that's hard to place.

It may seem odd trying two very different years like this, and it is.  The idea is to contrast how an aged and relatively unaged version compare, even though differences in the material, related to origin location and other inputs, would be as much of a factor.  Initial general character, aging potential, and how each tea transitions through aging wouldn't be the same.  As luck has it maybe not so different, given the location proximity.

They sent a number of years of samples; somehow I had missed that earlier, writing the first sheng pu'er review post as if I wouldn't try these.  The years are spread out so that I can still do two more comparison posts, that make more sense, of closer year spans, of two other versions from consecutive years.  And from different origin areas, so it will be about discussing differences as much as similarities.  And quality, and aging potential, and I suppose guesses about the storage environment.

About "dry storage:"  In talking to the vendor again after the last post "dry storage," referenced in a product description, is used in a sense natural storage often is for Hong Kong environment descriptions.  It's unadjusted, related to the natural climate, instead of being held at a high humidity level to speed up fermentation transition.  Of course very local micro-climate varies everywhere, even in different parts of a city, but in general lots of Malaysia is pretty hot and humid, as Thailand is, to a less extent even in the "mountain" areas in the North.  By that I mean that the annual low in Bangkok is in the low 20s C, around 70 F, but 25 C / 75 F is a more standard low temperature, and it's in the 30s most of the time (90s F).

The Legend of Tea vendor listings and descriptions:

2013 Xiao Ba Wang Raw Puerh Tea ($70 for a 200 gram cake, equivalent to $125 for 357 grams)

MangJing mountain ecological tea has the best aroma, which is similar to the ancient tree tea. The aroma is mellow and last long, the serrated edges of tea are not obvious, and the tea buds are slightly thin. Due to good ecological conditions, the MangJing mountain tea comes with a strong orchid fragrance is the best raw material for the processing of puer tea.

2022 Xiao Ba Wang Raw Puerh Tea ($34.80 for a 200 gram cake, equivalent to $62.12 for 357 grams)

This year's Xiao Ba Wang is made from ecological spring tea from JingMai Mountain, and the most important feature of this year's Xiao Ba Wang is "sweetness"! What is different from the usual "sweetness" is that the sweetness of JingMai tea comes directly and quickly!

The sweetness of JingMai tea comes out when you pour down the hot water! The aroma of this tea is orchid fragrance, and the taste is fresh, sweet, and smooth, you can feel the sweet aroma of this tea enveloping the whole mouth and tongue. The tea broth is fine and smooth with a full and mellow taste.

I checked another source to hear more input on Mang Jing, since AI content is unreliable, and the part about natural growth and thousands of year old trees wasn't promising:

Spring 2019 Mangjing (a Farmerleaf listing)

Ai Leng Ancient Garden, Mangjing Village, Jingmai Mountain

In the heat of the Spring season, we visited our friend Ai Gong. He lives in Mangjing, a mountain adjacent to Jingmai, 10km away from our village. The altitude is 200m lower than our mountain, it peaks at 1400m. It is populated by the Bulang minority, unlike Jingmai, which is Dai...

The leaves in Mangjing are smaller than the ones that grow in Jingmai, the varietal is probably slightly different, despite the close distance between our respective mountains...  The tea shares a common character with our jingmai gulan, but it has a different fragrance, more minerality (probably due to the higher amount of old trees in the gardens) and a somewhat more aggressive profile. Jingmai and Mangjing are like two brothers with different personalities.  You will get your money's worth with this tea.

Their site doesn't show the price, but Google's site listing thumbnail entry says that it was $128, which is probably right.  What does that mean, that a $128 cake is "good value?"  It's a coincidence that Farmerleaf sold that as a new version at the same price Legends of Tea is selling theirs as an aged one, 12 years later.  But it's different material, for sure; you can't say all tea from an origin area is the same, and when a local area vendor describes a version as exceptional for that area it's promising.

In trying to confirm that price I looked up a Steepster review, by Togo, from back then, reviewed in 2020 (which never did list the price, but it adds one detailed take on that 2019 tea):

This tea from “greater Jingmai area” is light bodied with a very up-front floral but not perfumy character. I am not a big fan overall, but I do like its creeping, grounding cha qi that induces a great mind-clarity.

In the aroma, there are notes of light smoke, citrus zest, beef and focaccia. Taste is sweet and flowery with a milk note initially. Soon enough, a nice bitterness appears that has a tart and nutty backbone. The finish is buttery and the aftertaste vegetal, cooling and sweet with notes of olives and peach. Later on in the session there is also a hint of an interesting black pepper like taste and a more woody character overall. All in all, there is complexity, but I didn’t find the profile to be particularly enjoyable. The tea also doesn’t really last beyond 200 ml/g worth of infusions.

Flavors: Bitter, Black Pepper, Bread, Butter, Citrus Zest, Floral, Flowers, Meat, Milk, Nutty, Olives, Smoke, Sweet, Tart, Vegetal, Wood

Maybe not completely relevant, but interesting to consider.  It's also interesting how bitterness kind of drops out as an assumed background condition in sheng reviews (in the flavor list here, but not covered in the write-up).  You might comment on the level being low or high, but that's just how one year old sheng goes, it includes that.

Review:

(2013 Mang Jing left in all photos)

2013, Mang Jing origin:  it would be conventional to use a rinse for aged sheng but I didn't.  Flavor isn't pronounced in this; it's normal for sheng to need a round to open up, hence the conventional use of a rinse.  It's still interesting to me getting an initial sense of the tea, even if it doesn't get far.  Flavors are clean and warm in tone.  It should be nice once it gets going.

2022, Jing Mai origin:  more comes across in this, but I still might save more of a breakdown to the next round.  Of course the tones are much lighter, and include some bitterness, not showing up yet in the other.

2013 Mang Jing, #2:  it's interesting how far this aging has progressed in a dozen years, pretty far along.  Warm tones are mostly along the line of aged wood, towards a medicinal herb flavor, not so far off an incense herb range.  Root spice like ginseng also works as a description.  The effect is quite clean; there is no mustiness of off flavor range.  Intensity is pretty good.  Feel has a nice structure, including just a bit of dryness.  It seems like this will keep evolving over the next couple of rounds though, as if it's not to where it's going to be yet.

2022 Jing Mai:  again a much younger sheng range, not including overpowering bitterness, but that's still a significant input.  The flavor is a bit fresh, but already leaning towards warmer tones, including some of that.  One vegetal input is a bit towards pine, a normal flavor aspect in Jing Mai tea, but it's as close to green wood in this version, at this stage.  Floral tones don't really stand out, but there may be some of that filling in background, connecting with sweetness.  Intensity is good; overall balance is good.

2013, #3:  a pleasant spice-range sort of herbal note emerges.  It had tasted like medicinal herb before, but this is a bit towards sassafras.  Feel is nice, with some fullness and structure, but it's not challenging.  Aftertaste experience is nice; it really carries over.  

This isn't all the way through aging transition, of course, but it's not falling short enough that you tend to speculate about when it will be better to drink.  It's ok now, it's just going to keep changing.  To the extent this includes wood tones those tones are warming, a bit towards a cinnamon spice range, but it doesn't taste like cinnamon, it's just a comparison.  So like aged tree bark?  I guess that works.

2022:  the bitterness and astringency level in this is in a nice place.  Those inputs tend to soften but not drop out over the first few years, and brighter and fresher flavors start to change, but sheng pu'er versions are still young at 3 years into aging.  This probably is at a level comparable to 5 or 6 years into Kunming aging; in some cases sheng stored cool and dry can not change all that much in the first 8 to 10 years.  Intensity is good, and sweetness level is nice in support of the rest.  Feel is fine, and intensity carries over into aftertaste.  It's a nice tea, at a nice place in transitioning.

So far I've avoided extending aspect notes into conclusions in any way.  This is nice, but how good?  What is the quality level?  Is the other a great example of a 12 year old sheng, beyond flavors and other aspects being a particular way in any given case?  I'll try to add some thoughts on that over later rounds.  It's not an easy judgement call to make.  These lack flaws; that's a good starting point, that makes them at least average.  And then I think they're at least a little better than that.  

Judgments within the narrower range of the higher end is always more difficult.  Maybe I've never tried the best of the best of what comes out of Jing Mai?  I've tried a good number of versions from that broad origin, including quite a few from Farmerleaf, that other vendor mentioned in a citation, but Mang Jing isn't familiar at all.  A simple count of teas you like or don't like doesn't mean much; someone could accidentally try below average quality tea versions over and over, especially if their main filter related to trying the lowest cost versions.  Or preference for aspects varies, a different thing than a quality assessment.

2013 #4:  similar flavors as I've described.  The balance gets better and better as it goes, the way those come together, and the way that root spice / driftwood scent sort of range emerges.  The feel is nice in an interesting and difficult to describe way.  There are no heavier tones one might associate with more humid storage, but then that also must depend on the starting point input.  For the tea being this subtle and balanced it didn't start out as harsh, complex, and intense as factory teas are.  But it's also far from fading away; the balance it strikes in the middle is a good one.

I've been re-trying a Jing Mai version from in between these years, maybe 2019 or so, that was an autumn harvest version, and the intensity is mostly gone now (not from Farmerleaf, but it seems the source doesn't matter related to making this point).  The tea is fading to include some warm depth and that's about it.  That's still ok for an experience, but this tea expressing more interesting flavors, complexity, and feel is much better.  

That tea was on the inexpensive side, and not that intense to begin with, so I'm not really upset that aging it isn't working out.  I had bought two cakes and drank one new, so I've had the earlier part of the experience, the one I consider more positive.  Now it will work well as a tea to have with breakfast, when I feel like something subtle, or I could keep most for another half dozen years and keep trying it when it's really faded (with more comment to follow on whether or not a temporary lapse in intensity could relate to a "teen years" in between transitions state.

2022:  pronounced bitterness really stands out in comparing these two.  But in comparison with young sheng versions, and not even challenging ones, this isn't all that bitter.  It's a main component, and intensity is pretty good, but that's still moderate, since a lot of 3 year old sheng might not be all that approachable yet.  

I think quality is pretty good for these.  I'm never going to be able to be as clear as I might be on that, putting it on a scale of 1 to 10, or comparing it to known benchmark versions.  I'm not sure what "boutique style" teas are ever used as benchmarks.  I guess an individual could be familiar with whatever they drink a lot of, and their own comparison could tie back to that, something from one of the main Western vendors, for a Western tea drinker (from Yunnan Sourcing, Farmerleaf, White2Tea, etc.).  The older form of Yunnan Sourcing Impressions series seemed designed to fall in between categories, described as an alternative to something like blended Dayi / Taetea 7542 versions, but really the style for those was never all that similar.

Related to how this might be better some pine and green wood isn't bad but swapping in a bit of somewhat warm and transitioned floral range might be nice.  The brightness and sweetness might relate to a citrus tone, but it's subdued and integrated enough that this comparison or interpretation might not come to mind.  But at least that complexity works, letting the flavor balance, as the feel, intensity, and aftertaste aspects all kind of work out well together.  

This may only be "pretty good" level tea, versus something amazing, but ranking well in relation to what I've tried from other vendors is a nice level to achieve.  Given the moderate pricing I referenced in the last review it's punching way above its weight class [editing note:  I hadn't included the price or listing citation content yet, but this being equivalent in price to a $62 357 gram cake is on the low side, sold as a 200 gram version instead].

2013 Mang Jing, #5:  a bit more old book flavor joins that pronounced root spice and driftwood range.  This is improving across rounds, a good sign.  At 12 years old this drinks a lot like an aged sheng; hot and humid storage conditions can lead to that kind of result faster.  You can tell it's not quite to the level of 20 to 25 years of aging input, but this would be comparable to 20 years of cooler and drier storage, just as it is, except that the effect varies slightly, it's not about fermentation input all being one uniform kind of change.  This has fantastic potential to age to be a bit smoother, mellower, with deeper flavors, within the next 3 to 4 years.  Intensity is still there to support more transition.

It's on to guessing but in another decade this might move on to fading some instead.  The most powerful teas tend to not fall into a pleasant, more aged form balance as fast as this has, in "only" 12 years.  But intensity is good now; there is still lots to appreciate.  And it's past the awkward stage where aged flavors and character is evenly balanced with newer / younger range inputs, when teas just don't make sense.  

There's talk in pu'er circles about a tea not tasting like much at one aging transition level, then with intensity and warmer and more age-related flavors filling intensity back in.  To some extent that must happen, as such a broadly discussed and expected theme, but in my experience the opposite is more common.  You can still taste and feel plenty, all across the aging transition, it just doesn't make sense, or isn't pleasant, right in between young and truly aged forms.

2022 Jing Mai:  this is clearly a slightly age-transitioned but still young sheng, just as it should be.  This is a pretty good aging range for drinking this tea.  It would've been ok quite young, if someone was ok with the higher level of astringency and bitterness.  Which is still often moderate for Jing Mai origin teas, compared to something from Menghai areas.  Or is that wrong?  As I tend to perhaps over-repeat I'm not a great reference for mapping typical sheng aspect range to origin locations.

It complicates things that low elevation grown, monoculture produced, somewhat chopped material, high fertilizer input tea is much more harsh, and if you get in the habit of drinking that from one region and versions of the opposite background from another then you'll mix up the inputs, and over-emphasize origin related themes that are really tied to different causal inputs.  To some extent I must be doing that, in ways that I can't sort back out.  And referencing broad production areas never really works well; generalities can come up, but teas also vary a lot.

Earlier in the social media history of tea drinking people in tea groups would debate these points.  It was a great input for comparing your own limited experience range to others'.  That has quieted down quite a bit (for example, Steepster is pretty much finished as a discussion and review site, per my understanding).  

I think that's because the wave of tea enthusiasts from before my time, from the 2000s, had already went quiet when I started exploring and writing a dozen or so years ago, and that next "class" I discussed themes with has also dropped out talking about it.  Now 20 to 25 year-olds discuss tea experiences in Discord servers, which is fine, since it's an effective channel for that.  But for us "old-timers" the chat thread format is unfamiliar, or not as functional, since instead of individual discussions being saved for later review you have the current history of 15 or so main themes available.  You can't really scroll back to see what was covered over the last year, never mind a few years, since it's too much volume, with lots of small-talk mixed in between interesting theme-related discussions.  

That's already plenty of tangent on that.  I'll leave off taking notes here, even though a few more changes will turn up.

Final conclusions:

I've already concluded plenty, so I'll keep this short.  To me these are really good teas for being sold at moderate prices.  I can't really place them in the standard levels related to other Western outlet sources, if they might represent $80 to 90 cakes, or the $120 to 140 range (and $60 to 70 cakes are mostly a thing of the past, in those main sales channels, related to this higher end boutique style of teas, at the risk of using that categorization term a bit more broadly than some do).  

A market outlet like Yunnan Sourcing would sell plenty of older sheng, from 9 years back, or older, but you might need to compare this 2013 version to pre-2010 versions stored in Kunming, related to demonstrating a similar fermentation transition level.  I haven't drank through a mountain of related samples of those from them to place them.

These teas are surely amazing for the moderate pricing level; I'm not afraid to draw that conclusion.  For people open to spending $200 or more on a cake, who have tried many times over what I have of aged sheng range, maybe they would seem to fall short of expectations.  

The Jing Mai character was nice, but you can find interesting variations of very pleasant teas from that area, and in general pricing is lower than the higher demand areas (with $62 representing a relative rock bottom for tea pricing in this type category).  The Mang Jing character was also nice, representing a pleasant aged-tea range, and novel character, but aged sheng is a broad subject, open to lots of varying interpretation about most positive aspect ranges.  Maybe someone could critique it for being a bit approachable or even lacking intensity at this age / place, thinking that if it was still a little more challenging it might land on an even more positive final result in another half dozen years.

To me all of that might be splitting hairs; these are good teas, interesting and pleasant.  Value is all but off the normal scale, delivering more experience for less cost than it's almost possible to find in standard Western outlets, potentially with limited exceptions.  The last 2025 Farmerleaf Jing Mai Miyun I tried, their take on an inexpensive blend, was really good, for what it was, and that now lists at $45 for a 357 gram cake.  Producers using blending to offset limitations in different input lots is another tangent I'll skip saying more about here, but results can be good for that, just not the same as narrow-origin source material, trading out some distinctiveness for good balance and complexity.

A small version of a tea tasting meetup (in Bangkok)

 

This last tea tasting meetup was really more just having tea with a few friends, but to me the way it worked out was interesting.  We tried some really novel teas, since two friends from earlier meetups had just visited China and Vietnam, even spending time with Huyen and her family there (in Vietnam), and with Seth.  I'd probably be more envious of that second part than visiting a tea expo; her family is amazing.

Since the interesting teas were the thing I'll get straight to that, and skip most of the back-story and other details.  We just got kittens a few days ago; that factored in a lot, so I'll mention it in passing, but that's an example of what I just said that I'd skip.  The kittens were well received, and Kalani helped with them and joined part of it, which has just never worked out before, either kid taking part.

I'll explain at the end what themes this highlights, how different kinds of tasting themes can work in different ways.  You don't really need one continuous, well-established theme for a tasting.

from another tasting (I should keep in touch better, mostly mentioning gatherings in this group)

What we tried

The tasting (from memory; some of this will probably be a little off).

Tea Side Dong Fang Mei Ren white tea:  we started with a tea I've reviewed recently, a white tea version of Dong Fang Mei Ren from the main Thai specialty tea outlet.  It's really nice tea, pleasant and interesting, and in a novel style (especially for being from Thailand), so it seemed a good place to start.  It's bright, sweet, fruity, well-balanced, complex, and refined.

that Tea Side Dong Fang Mei Ren (left), and a Gui Fei (rolled bug-bitten oolong)

another Thai Dong Fang Mei Ren white:  then we tried another white version of Dong Fang Mei Ren from Thailand that Steve brought; amazing it worked out like that (from Wang Put Tan, maybe it was).  I thought that might have been Tea Side's source, but the two versions were different.  They overlapped, being the same tea type, but oxidation level and aspects weren't identical.  Both versions were exceptional.  Probably producers can learn from what others do, and I've first tried Thai DFMR (Oriental Beauty) versions nearly a decade ago, so the theme has been around.

osmanthus rolled light oolong:  then we tried a flavored tea, unless I'm missing one, an osmanthus rolled oolong.  Flavored oolongs can be nice when the flavoring is natural, and this one was pretty good, relatively speaking.  It doesn't match the best plain teas, or even well above average versions, but it can be interesting trying different range together like that.  It didn't highlight the most potential a flavored oolong can have but it was interesting for comparison, and a nice tea, just a bit basic.

Ya Shi Dan Cong:  then Steve shared a Ya Shi Dan Cong (duck shit) version they bought in China.  It wasn't presented as the highest quality level, most costly tea version, since it sold for a moderate price, but it was pretty good.  The style wasn't identical to most well-above average Ya Shi versions, but it was close enough, and the variation wasn't necessarily negative, it was just a little different.  The smooth, roundish floral range typical of those was floral in a different way, with a different kind of vegetal edge, but without harsh astringency that can come up in some versions.  

It was really nice, really drinkable, and easy to enjoy.  People speak as if "breakfast tea" means something clear, as if a drinkable, moderate quality, pleasant to repeat tea experience can stand out for this context, and this would work well for that.  Black tea is nice with breakfast, but I more often drink sheng pu'er; it just depends.

Vietnamese sheng:  having tried so much oolong it seemed about time to change it up, so we tried a more-oxidized Vietnamese sheng version, one of my favorite teas, even though it's very non-standard, and not exceptional in terms of matching any of the standard pu'er range.  I don't think it would be great for long-term aging, that the oxidation input would offset that, but it's two years old now, and is probably getting better.  It's hard to describe what "more oxidized sheng" is like, but I've written plenty of detailed reviews that cover it in lots of detail.  This review compares the 2023 and 2024 versions; it would get into those kinds of background contexts.

those two "Quang Tom" tea cake versions (so fruity, I can almost smell them)

2018 Xiaguan Reunion sheng pu'er:  then we tried another sheng, that Xiaguan Reunion 2018 tea ball I reviewed recently, I guess not so much because it made sense in a sequence as much as because I found it so interesting.  It's not ready yet, in terms of optimum aging, far from it, but it's interesting see where such teas had probably came from and were heading, and how pleasant they are just now.  The mustiness from the local storage I said would fade over a month or two is already pretty much gone, and it has just been 3 weeks.  It drinks much better than it had, but it's still not where it will be in even another half dozen years, when transition makes more sense, or a decade, when it's closer to a final form.

looks like a tuo, but it's half a kilogram

high roast level Thai rolled oolong:  we got back to oolong, trying a well-roasted version, again out of Thailand.  Roasting had sort of taken over the character, making it more one-dimensional than most of what we'd already covered.  If someone would love that one flavor range it could still seem great, but low level oxidation, higher roast input rolled oolong isn't a personal favorite.  

Producers or vendors who have tea around that's a year or two old and want to add more freshness or appeal to it are kind of stuck, it seems.  A light roast might help, or there's always flavoring to be considered, but in general the material is as good as it is, and that's hard to change.

medium quality, medium roast rolled oolong (probably from China):  then we tried another that wasn't so different for comparison, to see if the gaps in that Thai version were a quality issue, related to the material missing range, or how themes might shift.  This moderate quality version had more going on, and less roast input, so it was better, even though it was clearly kind of medium quality tea, nothing exceptional.  It had a bit of a woody flavor, versus floral tones or warmer cocoa range standing out, but that also leaned a bit towards spice, so it was nice.

Thai black tea, prepared as ground tea:  then we tried something really novel, a ground up black tea, out of Thailand, an experiment that was supposed to draw on a matcha theme to be used to make milk tea, I think it was.  It was pretty good.  It ended up working out as brewed dust instead of obtaining a matcha-like whisked (blended) thickness, but maybe it had potential to be prepared differently.  

It's possible that maxing out astringency input and getting it to brew faster and more completely for use as a milk tea could make sense, that brewing this form could be better in some way.  Or it's possible that it's just an experiment, and completely brewing a broken leaf version would work out similarly, or even better.

I may have missed one or two.  It was a lot to try, and took awhile.  It was fascinating trying such a broad range of teas, and great talking so much that at times we drifted well off the subject of tea, on to current events, our own life patterns, politics, and so on.  People into tea are surely familiar with that, how tea can support much more lively and diverse conversation than alcohol, under the right circumstances.  And having kittens and a child join made more sense with the tea, than if we had been getting drunk instead.

So what is the point of sharing this?  Bragging?  Recommending that others get together with people they know, or don't know, and try lots of teas together?  To me it's that last part.  People into tea seem to often be pretty nice, and when others can appreciate a broad range then all of you being fascinated by lots of what is experienced really adds to a gathering.  

It can work mixing a lot of types of experiences together, with sub-themes mostly linking two or three versions, then moving on to the next range.  If you want to experience the most of a higher quality, refined form then it could be better to dial in focus and pay more attention, drinking teas that are similar in a sequence that makes sense.  But for a visit that divides focus on discussion and trying lots of tea range the other way can be good too.  

It can be interesting trying a tea with a novel flaw, just to see what that is like (trying one with storage flavor input contamination comes to mind, white tea probably stored near laundry soap), but of course then you wouldn't brew it for very many infusions, and in some cases might want to discard a rinse, if that frames it better.

It was especially interesting hearing about what a Chinese tea expo is like, and shops in a tea area in China, and how exploring tea in Vietnam went.  I feel like I'd be speaking for someone else telling a lot of their story in summarizing that though, and the ideas covered so much ground I would miss parts, or screw up framing.  It sounded like a real high water mark tea experience, the kinds of things I've never done myself (both of those broad themes).  I've seen markets in different places, and tea plants growing in a few, but it was never like that.

I'll sample a single interesting idea just to show what I'm leaving out.  They said that in China now no one pays with cash (not so unusual, I guess), and that you need to have WeChat payment capacity set up, or other local apps a foreigner wouldn't have, and that this one step was a bit tricky to clear.  It worked for them, so it wasn't a huge hurdle, it was just interesting hearing about the final process.  People use payment apps in Thailand too, but they're usually good about accepting cash, and often accept credit cards if they don't take cash.

There were lots of other tangents that came up; it would take pages to capture even main parts.  It was nice touching on personal background and current events some too.  I've met them all a few times, just not together, so it was like catching up again, and adding meeting my kids and the kittens added some chaos and also an interesting extra dimension.

Kalani made shirts for them from a sock

wearing a hat (with some goat's milk spilled on me)

they sleep all piled together, at times looking like a yin-yang symbol

Eye with them (right); thanks to Ploy (left) for giving them to us

Legend of Tea 2024 Mengsong sheng pu'er

 

I'm reviewing a third tea from the Malaysian vendor I've covered not long ago, Legend of Tea.  These teas were sent for review (many thanks to them).

This theme is one I've been looking forward to, checking out a sheng pu'er version they sent.  I'm trying out reviewing it completely blind, only knowing that it's sheng, with all of the label in Chinese.  It's pretty good, but I'll let the review itself cover that.  Value is really good; I'll add more on that after I cite the vendor's description, following:

2024 Xiao Ba Wang Raw Puerh Tea

As a timeless classic from Legend of Tea, "Xiao Ba Wang" has upheld its reputation for 19 years by consistently selecting high-quality, cost-effective materials with good craftmanship to deliver premium tea at an affordable price for all to enjoy.

This year's Xiao Ba Wang is sourced from ecological tea trees in the high mountains of Mengsong Da Man Lü, this sheng Pu-erh boasts a fresh, sweet aroma complemented by the distinctive alpine forest fragrance. Its naturally refreshing profile is soft, sweet, and intricately layered, offering a gentle yet rich tea-drinking experience. Each sip reveals a long-lasting sweetness with a refreshing, full-bodied aroma that lingers delightfully.

This is listed at $25 for 200 grams, so it's moderately priced, on the low side for Western oriented in-house teas (under $50 for a standard 357 gram cake; you don't see that in the main Western outlets, unless it's for "factory tea," nothing of this general type).  

It's quite good for that price, the quality level (I try the teas before adding website content).  I'll say more about that in the review, and cite more about the listed vendor background here:

What is High Mountain Ecological Tea?

High mountain ecological tea is cultivated in pristine, pollution-free environments far from industrial influence. Grown at elevated altitudes in eco-friendly tea gardens, these tea trees thrive in an ideal natural setting, surrounded by year-round clouds and mist. The significant temperature difference between day and night enriches the tea leaves, producing a clear, sweet broth with a distinctive mountain flavor and lingering sweetness.

At first sip, the tea is sweet and soft, with a full-bodied aroma that unfolds in layers, delighting the senses and enriching the palate. The sweetness and smoothness spread gradually, leaving a deep, long-lasting impression in the throat. Xiao Ba Wang beautifully combines the freshness of nature with the warmth and precision of handmade craftsmanship, offering a unique balance of strength and softness that is truly unforgettable.

I take everything every vendor says with a grain of salt, but it would be nice if all of that were true.  The tea is good; you would expect positive results like that from this sort of source context.

Review:

#1:  a little light; that's how first infusions tend to go, when you don't stretch the timing to offset that, or use a rinse to speed that along.  So far it's nice.  Sweetness is still moderate; how that balances might be a main input to my own preference.  It's clean in presentation, no mustiness, off flavors, harsh astringency edge, and so on.  There is already some mineral tone coming out.  I'll save the flavor breakdown for the next round, but it seems nice, as if a few things will stand out, including some floral tone.

#2:  depth and complexity pick up.  Bitterness starts, but that's still moderate.  Mineral undertone is pronounced, of course in a light mineral range, nothing like in Wuyi Yancha or other roasted oolongs.  Flavor seems to include floral tones, and a creamy sort of feel is adjoined by a touch of creamy flavor.  Sounds like oolong range, doesn't it?  But the feel structure of this is sheng, and the included bitterness, even if it's not challenging.  

Warmer tones are hard to identify.  They could be interpreted as a savory edge, along the line of sundried tomato.  Or it could be interpreted as an herbal tone, even towards a green-wood edge, but to me more of a savory aspect that includes herbal range.  It's not exactly like pine, but not so far off that.

So what would this be, judging by just this?  Hard to say.  I don't have a catalog of distinct flavor profiles for broad and narrower Yunnan origins mapped out in my experiential memory.  It's not as smooth, floral, sweet, and "round" as Yiwu tends to be, but being approachable with some floral range it's not completely dis-similar.  The pine note reminds me of Jing Mai, but it's not clearly pine, to that same extent.  It's not edgy, intense, or challenging enough to be from standard larger areas like Menghai or Bulang (with intensity and complexity more the Menghai theme, and distinctive bitterness that could be paired with pleasant sweetness from Bulang).  So I don't know what it is, and probably won't.

#3:  bitterness ramps up a good bit; this is closer to where it's going to be, and may even lose some of the bitterness and challenging edge over a round or two.  But it's not really heavily astringent, or all that bitter, as more bitter versions tend to be.  That's significant, but it balances with the rest.  At this point it's the main part of the experience, so I mean balanced in the sense of still standing out most.

Sweetness isn't bad; it works.  I've become accustomed to fruity, approachable, complex South East Asian sheng versions, and this isn't that.  Aftertaste extends well beyond drinking the tea, and feel structure adds to complexity.  Flavor range isn't as distinctive as it might be.  Mineral tones stand out a lot, and some floral range, and an herbal / vegetal edge, more herbal than vegetal.  It's not unlike how ginseng root comes across; a bit vague, but also complex, with plenty going on.

#4:  more of the same; it isn't changing quickly.  Aftertaste and bitterness may both dial up slightly.  Intensity is definitely good, and again the balance and overall effect is nice, the lack of flaws.  Flavor range doesn't extend to anything so interesting, but it comes across as good tea, pleasant and intense.  

I think I'm feeling the effects already.  It just worked out that breakfast was light on carbohydrates (starch in particular), which seem to delay stomach processing of tea compounds, and protect from negative feel issues.  For me that's a good thing; I don't need to be getting stoned off tea.  But this seems to have significant effect, for people on that page.  

This may be a good quality version from an area known for being challenging, with this pronounced bitterness and feel structure only this approachable because it's whole-leaf material, and perhaps not low elevation / high fertilizer input grown.  People claim that older plant material has a greater depth to it, more mineral range, with extra aging potential, and that more wild origin material tends to pick up interesting flavor range from the environment, and to often be more approachable, while still complex, which could vary.  I suppose there's probably some truth to all that, it just doesn't help identify this tea.

#5:  still not evolving so much.  The earlier set of descriptions was already broad enough, and only the balance of the range mentioned keeps shifting.  Floral tone really isn't so pronounced, compared to the rest.  There might be some moderate fruit range evolving, along the line of grapefruit, probably a relatively sweet version of that.  Herbal / medicinal range stands out, but not as much as bitterness and the mineral base.  I'll look up what this is, out of curiosity, and leave off the notes here.  

I checked; it's from Mengsong, presented as high mountain, natural growth origin teas, maybe not forest tea, but from a diverse environment (as I interpret it; I've pasted most of the description there).  I've reviewed teas from Mengsong but again I don't memorize a matrix of origin-related character types well.  It is interesting how the flavor range I struggled with describing, saying it was a bit like pine, or maybe ginseng, possibly herbal or vegetal in some way, they describe as "distinctive mountain flavor."  That works.

Conclusions:

Just wonderful, for a tea presented as a moderately priced version (low, really, using Western outlet standards).  It's a throw-back to when Yunnan Sourcing was still trying to keep their Impressions series as a moderately priced offering.  Maybe they do release a modest quality version still, but last I checked most branded as such had moved on to higher quality, more distinctive specialization, and a higher price range, the typical $70 to 80 a cake that now represents the low end of in-house pricing.

Some of my reluctance to be open to that $80 to $140 current range is that I just don't have the budget to be buying and drinking that.  That's enough of an issue.  Then I also remember when the standard range for pretty much all cakes was $30 to 50, with some outlets pushing "white label" more exclusive pressings up closer to $1 a gram.  I tried some marketed as such, and never bought any.  To me buying a $100 tiny 100 gram cake is ridiculous.

Tea quality got better, over the last decade.  A middle of the range $100, 357 cake is now probably better than most of the range available a decade ago, or closer to that exclusive pressing version than factory teas, or the then-rarer in-house versions.  At the same time vendors working off a standard mark-up benefitted greatly from selling $120 cakes instead of $40 versions, so they embraced, or even led, the customer demand for better and better versions.  

"Gushu" was all selling for $1 a gram 5 years ago, when pricing was still going up.  Some surely was from older plant sources, but who knows, really.  Or from more natural growth gardens, as this is presented.  You could see from the pressed cake that chopped material had given way to more whole leaves, which is now more the standard form, outside of "factory tea" versions.

It's hard to place this version within the broad range.  One critique one might apply is that it was clearly high quality material, but not necessarily as distinctive as it could be.  With a bit more sweetness and floral range, or more distinctive bitterness, or other flavor range, feel, or whatever it might include, it would stand out more.  It's good though, reasonably balanced, clean, somewhat complex, and pleasant.  For this price it's probably better than it should be, and better value than you could find in the half dozen or so standard Western outlets.

It led me to looking at whatever else they sell, and a lot of the rest of their range is even more value oriented.  They tend to sell what looks like blended material pressings identified by year, by the Chinese zodiac sign that year.  To me this looks a lot like the Yunnan Sourcing standard themes.  Here's an example:

Year of Snake Raw Puerh, 357 grams, $14.82

Year of Roaster Raw Puer, 357 grams, $19.998, from 2016  (rooster; I kept the typo)

Those two cakes could change how someone is exploring sheng, or could just be extra daily drinkers to check out for someone years into the type preference.  Or they could be bad?  Low cost, low-medium quality sheng can still be positive, just not in the same ways that spending over $100 on a cake tends to work out.  You often give up aging potential.  But then you really need to try a tea aged to be completely sure how that's going to go, even after you are familiar with typical aging transition patterns.

That last one is a 2016 cake stored in Malaysia; it's hard to summarize what that might mean, if someone doesn't already know.  It's known for being a place to age tea quickly, the opposite of dry and cool Kunming storage.  9 years in Malaysia could represent a similar fermentation level to 15 in Kunming.  For a $20 standard sized cake!  That's unheard of in Western outlets, maybe beyond gambling on very mixed results through a vendor like King Tea Mall, a reseller who passes on whatever happens to turn up.

They do sell what is presented as more standard, higher quality, desirable origin specific teas.  Here is an example:

2009 NanNuo Ancient Tree Tea, $86.58 for a 357 gram cake

I've had fantastic experiences with the few Nan Nuo versions I've tried, and no average or below average results.  Here's their write-up for that tea:

NanNuo Ancient Tree Tea is a slightly domineering tea. The tea liquor entrance has a significant bitterness, which quickly dissipates and turns sweet, bitter with sweetness (just like Musang King). Since ancient times, NanNuo Mountain was a very famous ancient tea mountain. Meanwhile, there is also a key source of raw material for high-quality puer tea. There are abundant resources of ancient trees, which has made today's NanNuo Mountain a quality assurance reputation.

It's probably not that bitter at this point, 16 years later, stored in Malaysia (presumably).  But you don't have to trust their judgment, or sourcing aptitude, since they sell samples of lots of their sheng range (I didn't check if it covers this one; it doesn't, so for those more distinctive and costly cakes you would have to trust them).

For people open to gambling on an $87 cake that's an interesting option, 16 years old and from a desirable origin area.  Ordering other versions first could work, and what samples are available, to get a sense of their range.  

All of this isn't really intended as a sales pitch.  It's completely familiar background for people well into sheng exploration, or maybe not clearly thought through for people just getting started, or not yet started.  It's how you tend to evaluate new sources, and to decide what else to buy.  If a cake is in the $20 range sampling makes a lot less sense; you just try that kind of thing, and see how it goes.  Maybe not by buying a vendor's whole selection range, in case it doesn't work out; you'd mix buying a few types.  Having tea around that you don't like can be awkward.

But then if you aren't familiar with aging transition patterns that shifts things.  Some tea character / aspect starting points have plenty of potential, and some don't.  There's nothing like trying the same tea a couple times a year for 6 or 8 years to see how it is changing.  It can be awkward doing that if it seems great after 8 or 9 years, and then you run out of it, and can't buy more.  I sometimes buy a second cake of what seems most promising, then at least I'll have some after the exploration phase, even though a single cake isn't that much.

I'm not sure how this cake would age, what it would be like in 10 or 15 years.  Even more intensity might be a good sign, to build in potential for change.  They sell versions from this line going back to 2010, but those are from different identified origin areas, so not at all identical teas.  Versions from 2010 and 2011 are from Nan Nuo and Bulang, and sell for $81 and $78, which really could be a life-changing sourcing option if those are very good material teas.  

Now I wish that I could spend a few hundred dollars exploring those.  But I live in Honolulu part time on a Bangkok salary budget, and spend more on airfare than makes any sense at all, so I'll make due with what I can afford to try.  It could be interesting seeing what their lower end range is like.  One last tangent note:  they mention "dry storage" in one product description, for that 2011 tea:

The raw material selected by XiaoBaWang in 2009 is from BuLang Mountain, which is one of the six ancient tea mountains in China... Tea liquor tastes high sweetness, after 9 years of storage in the pure dry warehouse, it becomes thick and smooth, not astringent, not dry, and docile.

Dry for Malaysia is probably hot and humid for Kunming; it could all be relative.

Legend of Tea (Malaysia vendor) Wuyi Yancha; Tie Luo Han and Shi Ru Xiang

 

This source seems especially interesting to me for breaking new ground, related to what I've experienced.  

There are some good tea shops and online sources in Thailand, but in general that's limited.  Related to Malaysia, our neighbor to the south, I'm much less familiar.  The tea tradition is definitely more developed there, with closer ties to Chinese culture retaining that interest.  Malaysia is known for storage conditions, for a place to age sheng pu'er in hot and humid environment.  An online friend there, an older Chinese guy, drinks Liu Bao, which seems to be popular.  Beyond that there must be lots of local themes and preferences I'm not clear on.

I've talked to people in Malaysia before, and joined at least one online meetup centered on that regional theme.  But it never became as clear to me as the tea landscape in places like Thailand, Vietnam, and Laos, or even Myanmar.

Of course the potential for developed, high quality sourcing that also relates to low cost sales is interesting.  Maybe that's only an unrealistic dream; these teas sell for near Western rates back in China, so the highest quality, highest demand versions aren't traveling somewhere else to be sold for less than in the domestic market.  More moderate quality, limited demand, local style teas probably can be bought for relatively little back in China, but I'm probably going to run across some similar themes as in the Western market, that what is known of and demanded everywhere, including in China, is what is being brought out to sell to the Malaysian market.  All the same the potential will be interesting, and the results.

Two other factors enter in.  One is that I've been drinking mostly sheng pu'er for the last half dozen years or so, so that's most familiar to me.  I can still pass on an informed impression of other range, like the Wuyi Yancha I'll try now, but I can probably no longer pin down a difference between a typical 30-40 cent per gram version and a 60-70 cent per gram version (to the extent that framing even makes sense; it kind of doesn't).

Tying in with that sheng pu'er production styles and origin range can be a bit broad, and themes and source areas might narrow back related to high-demand, known Wuyi Yancha types.  This idea that there might be some exception to be had out there, in a market like Malaysia's, might work better with sheng pu'er.  Or with Liu Bao, but that's complicated by other factors.  As with many people I can tell if a Liu Bao is above average in quality or not, and can add a little about style, but again I fall short of being able to break down other levels of factors as I can with sheng.  And I'm no sheng expert either, to be clear, I just drink that type of tea more.

These are normal retail range oolongs, selling for the 60 and 70 cents per gram range.  In lots of reviews I might overstate how my own budget tends to not extend to that range, as if that's somehow a relevant milestone for teas being costly or not.  I was just in a Bangkok Chinatown shop, my favorite one, Jip Eu, and they said that Wuyi Yancha demand stays high and the highest quality, most sought after versions retain a high value and selling cost.  This shop does sell relatively inexpensive Rou Gui versions, which should be familiar ground for Wuyi Yancha drinkers.  Those can be great, and it's not so unusual for quality range and production volume to make pricing vary for that type range.

I'll add the vendor descriptions after the review notes and get on with this.

Wu Yi Cliff Tea | Shi Ru Xiang RM298.00 ($70 USD, for 8x12 or 96 grams)

Shi Ru Xiang blends milky and fruity notes, with a lingering fragrance in a cooled cup. The tea liquor is rich and smooth, sweet on the palate, and finishes with a gentle mineral hint. Its tightly rolled, glossy leaves are thick and full, reflecting high-quality craftsmanship. With a long history dating back to the Song Dynasty as a tribute tea, it is still honored today — the stone inscription “Shiru Retains Its Fragrance” remains at the entrance of Jiulongke, a testament to its legacy.

In talking to the vendor later this tea type is Qi Dan, or at least that's the name it goes by in Western tea circles.  That and Bei Dou are the two main, most original Da Hong Pao related tea types, both genetically related to those original plant versions (7 of them, was it?).  It would be crazy to not reference what it is given that pedigree, in "the West," but in different markets naming conventions can vary.  

It's also appropriate to mention that Da Hong Pao is often used to represent a style of tea now, not necessarily a single genetic origin type, and most are blends, often medium level roasted.  Really higher end single plant type versions tend to be made in lighter styles instead, to let the positive character of the material shine through, not adjusting that through a processing input like roasting.

Tie Luo Han  RM248.00 ($59 USD, again for 96 grams)

One of the traditional four precious Wuyi rock teas. It is asexual, shrub-type, medium-leaf, and mid-season species, with a diploid chromosome set. Originally from Huiyuan Rock in Wuyishan City, Fujian Province, specifically within the Ghost Cave, also known as Fengke Pit, it grows in a narrow strip along a small stream flanked by steep cliffs. The primary distribution is in the "rocky mountain" areas of Wuyishan.

Tie Luo Han tea has green-brown leaves with a gem-like luster. Its aroma is rich and lasting, and the liquor is clear and bright, presenting a deep orange-yellow color. The taste is smooth, thick, and sweet, with a strong rock rhyme, offering a fresh and sweet aftertaste that lingers.

Review:

Tie Luo Han:  I brewed this as 8 grams, the entire sample, and of course for others accustomed to a different approach brewing half instead, 4, would make more sense.  16 grams is too much for a comparison tasting, but it's normal for me to "brew heavy," compensating with fast infusion times.

This is exceptional; that stands out right away.  It's a heavier style, roasted more, probably with significant oxidation level input, but to me if it balances well that matches a classic form, better than modern lighter styles.  Depending on the material character it can be just great, and it works well for this.  Depth stands out, and it includes that aromatic, liqueur (brandy or cognac) related character.  Mineral tones are very pronounced.

Beyond that the rich flavor range might be harder to break apart.  It could seem to relate to bark spice range, or medicinal herbs.  It tips a little towards light roast coffee character, perhaps related to a roast input being common to both.  Floral range is definitely included, in a heavy, warm, and sweet scope.  That bark spice isn't a close match for Rou Gui's cinnamon character but it's not completely different either.

Shi Ru Xiang:  much lighter.  This really is creamy; that's an interesting effect, in combination with standard Wuyi Yancha range, the rich mineral base, and warm floral tones.  The general quality level of these does match with some pretty high expectations.

Floral range stands out a lot more, without the heavier mineral tone and warmer spice or dark aromatic wood base being so much of the balance in the other (mahogany, teak, or the like, which I guess I didn't get around to writing in those notes).  Aftertaste is more pronounced in this version, which occurs in an odd way, so that you get a sense of a very strong aromatic range while you drink it, that carries over as the same kind of note after swallowing.  Rich feel integrates with that; all of it seems to connect, in an interesting and pleasant way.

I won't be saying much more about value here, because at some level good tea is either worth more or it's not to someone on that page, but these make for an interesting experience that might justify spending more.  There are good relatively direct sources out there, of course with Wuyi Origin my favorite example, since a close friend is an owner of that family business (Cindy!), and it's hard to compete with their value, but styles and types also vary.  For someone with a narrow focus on limiting cost, on value in that sense, the pu'er range might fare better, since 60 to 70 cent per gram tea is on the high side across most types range.  But these are really good, and distinctive, relating to high demand types; it's all that background that makes spending more potentially make sense.

TLH #2:  roast input is even stronger, and cinnamon stands out even more.  Or really that last input or aspect is bark spice integrated with aromatic wood tones, or maybe incense spice, but cinnamon is definitely a part of that.  That one aromatic range I spoke of, like brandy or cognac, is really pronounced in this.  To me that serves as a "quality marker," one interesting and desirable aspect that separates better versions.  But then every desirable aspect is also a factor, and every limitation and flaw, so I don't mean to over-emphasize that.

Aftertaste experience is strong in this too, the way that rich, heavy, balanced character carries over.  It's also very refined, making the rest balance and work all the better.  What about a limitation; what could be different, or better, to turn all this around?  Preference for another style would potentially seem most negative, but that's something else.  I get it why the lighter styles are common and popular now.  Maybe this is really more classic range, as I take it, and maybe that's wrong, but either way it has a different kind of appeal.  Along a related line I suppose someone wanting this to be lighter, to express more rich floral range and less heavy mineral, spice, and tropical wood tone would make sense.  The floral range is there, but this style emphasizes the rest.

SRX:  again it's creamy, floral, balanced, and refined.  This is surely the best Wuyi Yancha I've tried since regularly tasting Cindy's teas awhile back, some years ago.  It's harder to say if this version is better than the first version.  The styles are just quite different.

I hadn't mentioned caramel before, and that input seems to help tie the creamy range together with the mineral and rich floral range.  But then caramel is warm, sweet, and creamy, so in a sense it's just a restatement of the rest.  I don't notice more to add that I didn't already express.

TLH #3:  I drank water between rounds to clear my palate, and it was funny how strong that "rock taste" was while drinking water.  Sheng pu'er drinkers are familiar with a related effect, of tasting sweetness when drinking water in between rounds, as the aftereffect slowly clears.

This isn't really transitioning yet, and I don't want to keep repeating the same description.  It will probably shift some, after another 3 or 4 rounds, but related to using a lot of tea, flash brewing, and this being so good it won't fade or shift quickly.  Integration of the parts and balance stand out, and overall intensity.  This is a really novel experience.  As a sheng drinker you adjust to "giving up" intensity when drinking other tea types, but for some it's just a different kind of intensity balance.

SRX:  this is similar; it's not really different, perhaps maybe only evolving to integrate a little better, with intensity picking up, even though it was already integrated and intense before.  It might seem a little warmer in tone; maybe I let it brew slightly longer?  

It would kind of make sense to brew half as much dry tea material for these.  You don't need to push them to get intensity out of them, and being able to refine results by adjusting timing, instead of just doing fast brews, might give you another input to work with.

It's skipping part of the job but I'll leave off taking notes here.  Six cups of these is already a lot, and my attention span is diminished by the neighbors literally tearing down one of their buildings just now, in a house complex we live right beside.  I bet that's not going to go quickly; they're a week into it, but it's a large building.

In later rounds the teas held up well, but the heavier roast level input in the Tie Luo Han fell out of the same well-integrated balance toward the end, standing out more.  The Shi Ru Xiang stayed consistent, transitioning some, but holding up well to a long infusion count.

Conclusions:

These teas have been fantastic.  The quality level is beyond the range of what I can easily critique, and styles are varied, distinctive, and quite pleasant.  They've exceeded my expectations.  But just how good are they, compared to the rest of what is out there, and how good is the value, since the cost is considerable?

They're good enough that it's hard to say.  I think plenty of curator vendors would sell similar quality and style products for more like $1 a gram instead, but that doesn't help narrow it down.  The best possible value, most direct sources online might sell equivalent versions for a little less, but not that much less, given how good these are.

It would help if I'd been drinking really good Wuyi Yancha more often for the past half dozen years.  I do keep checking in with that range, as vendors pass on samples, or a local shop does.  I drink far lower quality versions from time to time, as I buy them for local monks and get a pack for myself.

Maybe more than the quality being at the absolute highest level, which is hard to judge, because there is always room for some incremental improvement--a slightly thicker feel, longer finish, etc.--these stand out more for being two very interesting variations.  The Tie Luo Han is made in a more roasted, and probably more oxidized style, which I take to be an older classic variation.  It's possible the extra processing was used to cover up a flaw that might be hard to detect now, but probably it was just a style choice, how that producer wanted to make it.  

The other version is something I probably have never tried before; it doesn't ring a bell.  That's harder to place, but since it was so pleasant that the unfamiliarity seemed to be a good thing.

It might seem like I'm less critical of selling price for these than I typically am, given the 60 to 70 cent per gram range.  The quality and distinctiveness was one part of that, and the high-demand general type.  My expectations tend to shift depending on origin location as well, to a limited sense in terms of production and where a vendor is located, and Malaysia I can't really place.  Tea sold out of the US tends to be expensive, and local options in Thailand often cost a lot less, but then some things you buy here aren't like that.  At the higher quality end tea sales are somewhat inconsistent here (in Bangkok, and Thailand in general).

All in all they seemed fine for what people interested in these types and open to this price range would be looking for.  It will be interesting trying other teas from them that represent a different kind of value, selling at a lower cost price-point.

new family members, kittens!

Bangkok street food and food court options

 

this is out in Isaan instead, but the theme comes up a lot in Bangkok

just a market alley, not all that food related, but there would be stalls and shops in there

This discussion comes up over and over in social media groups, so I'll add some thoughts here beyond what fits in a typical post comment.  Some of the background context does get expressed in some threads, but usually it's just a list of personal favorites.  That's fine, but there are dozens of places that repeat, and what turns up in any given post is sort of random.

Let's start with categories, and more on to my own favorite examples of each after.

Street food versus food courts and markets:

True street food is vendor's cart on a sidewalk, which is everywhere in Bangkok.  Food from these places can be fine, but it does add some risk of foodborne illness, since those vendors don't have a kitchen or refrigeration to work with, for sanitation.  Some things seem safe in general; I'll buy cut fruit from them, and roti, and in general whatever is cooked in front of you is better than what is sitting already cooked.  Meats can be ok, but that is sitting out in Bangkok heat without a lot of refrigeration, so a problem could also occur.

Food courts can be a better option for Thai basic foods because they have those extra facilities, and because the types of foods overlap.  There are food courts everywhere, in most office buildings, shopping centers, malls, and in local markets.  The one in Terminal 21 (in Asok) is popular among tourists, but really it's nothing special, it's just presented slightly better than usual.  The Central World version is fine (but I was just in there and many options are 200 baht or so, way too much for food court foods), or in any other mall really.  Older or out of the way mall areas can be even better.  The food court in the Paradise Park mall is great, or The Mall in Bang Kae.  I'm not suggesting that anyone drive an hour or more across the city to go to a special food court; the idea is that different places can be good.

the Terminal 21 food court (credit the GoTouchTheSky page)

Local markets are an exceptional option; these tend to host busy food court areas, the informal outdoor versions, which often work out as local favorites, sometimes selling novel options.  Basics can be great at these too; my own favorite is Isaan fermented sausage with sticky rice, which pairs well with som tum, Thai papaya salad.  There's a nice local market in our area, on Rachawat road in Dusit, but it has a row of food shops instead of a market section, which isn't so different, but it's not the same.

a standard street market, the fruit section

a much bigger pineapple section at the Ta Lat Thai wholesale fruit market section

I just attended a local fair, with a market that was a nice variation of these.  Fair food includes grilled meats, Thai basics (like som tum), fruit, smoothies, novel desert or snack items (like battered fried bananas, or blended rice fried into sweet disc shapes), and just about anything else.  Grilled shrimp might be fine from such a place, or a seafood omelette; it just depends.  They were selling fried bugs there; I guess that's fine for a novelty, for something unusual to try, but I've not tried that.

that fair was based on a Squid Game 3 theme; strange

there was some food at this street art themed fair, not far from the Grand Palace area

Night markets would always include this sort of food shop / open food court space.  Many are geared towards foreign tourists, but in some places they're there mostly for locals.  Another favorite is in a completely local area, Bang Son, I think that is, beside train tracks (here), with one section as a food market and the other as a food court sort of theme, just on tables set up in an open space.  My daughter loves a crepe place there, and there's a shwarma / wrap place, but most is standard Thai food, chicken and rice, rice noodle soup, and so on.  Again it might be anti-climactic traveling across Bangkok to see a railroad market and food shop section; you would probably pass a half dozen similar places along the way.

that Bang Son railroad market place

local places carry a lot of Thai desserts and snacks, like this version

night market sort of shops space beside Victory Monument

I don't really have other favorites for night markets, but there is one outside the Central Rama 9 mall, another beside the Paradise Park mall, and a range of different related areas beside Chatuchak market in the Mo Chit area.  One of those is famous for being a top tier fresh food and fruit market, but since I don't go there it's not so easy to turn up a location link.  I go to a great place beside the Sam Sen railway stop, where fruit options and low pricing can be on par with wholesale markets, but then if your luck or timing is bad there might not be much there at any given time.

there is a good tea shop beside the Paradise Park food court, Ju Jen

People sometimes comment in discussions that most office buildings have food courts in them, and this isn't an exaggeration.  In the office building I worked in prior to the current one there was a food court in the basement, and two in adjacent buildings, with large local versions across and down the street.  Not so much in the building I'm in now; there is mostly just one main one in the basement.

We would go to two different food courts when visiting Chula university, to a pet hospital there (we have cats), but who knows how many of those there are on that large campus area.  There are relatively few places where anyone off the street isn't welcome, in any kind of area.  One other food court inside Chula seems to be mostly for students, somehow, but it would probably still work out to have lunch there, people just seem not to.  

Food street / local shop areas:

Some places collect lots of options together, that aren't exactly a local market or fair.  Ban That Tong road is our favorite example of this sort of thing; it's a row of over a kilometer of densely packed food shops, beside the Chulalongkorn university, near the Sam Yan area.  Our favorites are Cheng Shim Ei, a Chinese iced desert place that sells barbecue and crispy pork, and duck, with noodles or rice, a congee place, and a great khao soy place, northern Thai mild curry, typically served with chicken.  All of those are near the Stadium One building, near the Lotus on Rama 1 road.

at the Cheng Shim Ei shop with favorite friends who visited

But there are many examples of these, all over the place.  A row of different types of food shops near Siam One, in the Siam BTS area, is trendy and popular with younger people, a place to see and be seen as well as to eat.  It's behind the Siam One mall / shops area, so more or less a short block away from the BTS station.  Different food themes would be available there, including very standard hot pot and Korean barbecue variations.  

Thais eat lots of rice noodle soups, similar to Vietnamese pho, that are just not the same.  Fried chicken variations can be popular, or odd desert and snack themes, like a toasted bread place.  Japanese food is very popular across Bangkok, but Ban That Tong is more Chinese and Thai oriented, while the Siam One area emphasizes novel modern informal establishments.

Street food, in more detail

You can find almost anything as street food, but some common themes repeat.  It wouldn't be typical for someone to cook pad Thai, fried noodles, from a food cart, but they could.  Grilled meats is a common theme, or fried chicken.  Some places sell variations of the basic rice noodle soup that's a main staple.  Roti is my favorite (like a snack version of an Indian fried bread sheet); it comes as a plain sweetened version (tamada), or with egg and banana.

For many since food court areas are similar, or market related shop spaces, there is no reason to eat most of what is offered on sidewalks.  Bangkok has been removing such places, or went through a wave of restrictions maybe 8 years ago, but only long term locals would notice what is missing.

It almost doesn't make sense to ask where street food is good in Bangkok.  It varies by vendor.  To me market spaces, food courts, or food shop areas tend to have a more consistent theme or quality level, in specific areas.

Other favorites

My two standard favorite food shop or market basics are chicken and rice or crispy pork and rice, or barbecue pork if they have that instead.  Or it's really about what looks good.  A plain grilled chicken can be great, if a vendor is making a nice looking version of that.  Add some sticky rice (kao neow) and that's a nice lunch.

Lots of food shops, market stalls, or even street vendors sell just one kind of thing, and often that can be nice, across a lot of range.  We always buy fried chicken from a place in that market in Rachawat road (in Dusit, near Sam Sen).  A khao soy place will often sell just that (Nothern mild curry noodle soup).  Some local restaurants are the opposite, particularly if they are a Western theme / Western oriented place, and they'll sell a bit of lots of things.  Sara Jane's in Sathorn, near the Empire Tower, is an example of this (right beside a local food court area I'd mentioned separately).

It might sound like going local is the best way to go, to get great value on great quality food that sells for next to nothing, 40 to 60 baht a dish, a bit over $1.  That's it, but Thai chain restaurants can be ok too, basic ramen places (Hachiban / #8 ramen is nice), interpretations of Japanese food (like Ya Yoi), or fusion options, like the Pepper Lunch Japanese interpretation of Korean barbecue (sort of), selling meats with rice and corn.

Thais would have their own favorite shops, and would drive by plenty of other places to get dishes that are exceptional there.  We have a favorite duck noodle place (never mind where; it's too far out), and pork ball with rice noodle place (not far from the UN building, further along that road towards the river).

Tourist places tend to be among the worst options for decent local foods, oddly.  Beside Wat Pho, where we visit often, there isn't much at all, and there's nothing exceptional about the options in the Khao San road or Phra Arthit areas, beside each other in the old part of town.  True local areas are generally better.  

Tourist food shops tend to focus on coffee shop themes and bad interpretations of pizza.  Real local food shops would only be a block or two away, so wandering around a little might resolve this gap.  Not so much near Wat Pho; I'm not sure why it works out like that.  I was just in a radna place yesterday only 3 blocks or so away from Wat Pho, so I guess that could work as an exception, but no one would ever find that place without knowing exactly where it is.  I don't like that dish; it's basically the large noodles served fried with kale in pad see ew, often with fried pork, but with gravy, which I like less.

that one local food option I still haven't tried