Sheng pu'er aging transition patterns: bringing it all together

 

I've been writing a good bit about this subject lately, related to trying a couple more sample sets.  But it has been a running theme for the past decade or so, even though I really only completely switched over to mostly drinking sheng pu'er within that time, maybe something like 8 years ago.

I still only guess about transition patterns, and the effects of varying storage environments on teas of different character, expressing different aspects.  But I've been guessing about it for a long time, based on varying exposure.  I first bought sheng right around the time I started this blog, maybe within a year of then, so I've been dabbling in that exploration for around a dozen years (or looking back the first post about sheng pu'er was 13 years ago).  

It's interesting thinking back to how badly some of those initial trials went, the earliest of which wouldn't have been covered here (although buying that one cake 13 years ago was an early venture).  It's no wonder lots of people don't like sheng early on, given how new factory teas or bad versions can go.

I'll separate this out by individual topics to make them approachable.  These won't be in any particular order, maybe starting with more of what comes up first, and some of what I like best.  

The context that I've been trying two different sample sets recently is interesting; that never goes exactly how I expect.  One was from a favorite vendor, mostly newish versions of "gushu" from a Swiss vendor, Tea Mania, and the other was known Yunnan area versions from a Malaysian vendor, of even more varying age, with storage occurring there adding an interesting twist.  Final outcome is always complicated, and in between 3 and 4 years or 15 to 20 there's a broad range of fermentation levels that make less sense, that vary a lot by starting point.  It would be nice if I could summarize that more clearly than I'm able to.

wet versus dry versus natural storage:  this is really a better topic for an entire 1500 word post on the one storage conditions input.  But I'm limiting this discussion to quickly framing a lot of related inputs, so it makes sense to only add a little about it here.  I don't necessarily think that cooler and dryer storage is really a bad thing, but that kind of environment does preserve tea, slowing it from changing in any way.  Maybe a slow, gradual change is better under some circumstances, and there might be typical negative trade-offs related to that, other aspect input experienced as less favorable.  A limited sourness or cardboard flavor can come up in dry-stored teas, but long-term storage in cardboard boxes may be a part of that.  

For factory tea, aggressive, intense, unapproachable tea that really needs at least 15 years to be approachable, more humid storage is better.  The effect of temperature can be a bit complicated; reading up on some Late Steeps blog post experiments on that is interesting.  I think teas I keep in Bangkok change fast and change differently because of both the humidity and the heat, but I can't really break that down, even to the extent he does there based on testing.  The heat might cause heavier flavor range to emerge, just to add something.

I've not really said much about more conventional cases; what about boutique style teas, or factory teas that aren't as clearly in need of lots of transition, as a Dayi 7542 cake or Xiaguan tuo demand?  How variations of styles and character age in general is a bit complicated, and my own guesses aren't much of a clearly acceptable baseline.  I'll add more about types and get back to those later on.

factory tea:  this is what people encounter first, not my own main preference.  Dayi / 
Taetea 7542 is a main example (a "recipe" number), and Xiaguan tuocha versions I see as the other main example (and the cakes they produce).  This general style, as much as it represents one, typically requires a full 20 years of aging to enter a pleasant and drinkable range, and under conventional conditions 30 years might be better.  You can get away with rushing that when hot and humid storage conditions rush the process, as occurs here in Bangkok, or someone maintaining high humidity in a cooler place would work, just not in the same way.  I think the faster transitions happen the better for these teas, since in cooler and dryer storage they may not be well-transitioned even after 30 years.

The change is what people expect, what they think of related to pu'er transition in general:  harsh, astringent, bitter and intense general character gives way to smoother, deeper, warmer tones, that is much more drinkable.  There is no partially aged stage that also makes sense for most factory teas, in general, as occurs for versions that can be exceptional with some rough edges smoothed out, after "only" 3 to 5 years of limited change.  Then again that's probably a statement about my own preference, over-extended a bit related to what could possibly occur.  There was just a Reddit thread about someone liking some 5 year old Dayi 7542, and that preference opinion isn't invalid.

nearly 20 year old Xiaguan, aging fast due to storage time in Bangkok

A truism comes up that aging won't turn bad tea into good tea.  This can be taken as meaning completely different things, all of which may only apply to a limited extent.  One potential meaning is that if a tea tastes bad originally it may never recover from being of bad quality (which already mixes different inputs as assumptions).  A limitation of this is that aging potential doesn't necessarily always relate to a tea being approachable when young; factory teas are the main counter-example of this.  Another factor is that maybe being approachable when young relates to good aging potential, and maybe it doesn't.  Considering the relatively opposite style of sheng categories can help place this.

drinkable when young pu'er:  this is the opposite extreme.  It's not really a single, unified category, because sheng can be more drinkable for a number of different reasons.  Autumn harvest versions can lack intensity, or more wild origin material can seem quite different, less bitter and astringent, and quite flavorful.  Processing variations could lead towards this general nature, but the result wouldn't be the same as when these other two causes were primary.  Breaking this range down by these distinct inputs makes sense, even when they would tend to combine, and not enter in as just one input.

Some areas tend to produce much more drinkable versions, probably related to a combined set of these kinds of inputs (plant genetics, local climate input, typical growing conditions, and processing choices).  Yiwu area teas might be interpreted as mostly sweet, approachable, and floral, but saying that brings in a limitation and risk of over-generalizing:  that's a broad area, and the teas would surely vary a lot from different places there.  That general pattern might often hold because expectations have evolved in that direction, again for different reasons.  Then it wouldn't necessarily have to be accurate.

autumn harvest versions:  spring teas are typically more intense, often more flavorful (range is greater, not just intensity), and are more desirable.  They'll often have more aging potential, and can reach favorable intermediate age stages that work out better, in some circumstances.  So why drink autumn tea?  Mainly because it costs less.  Sometimes a vendor will obtain and sell a highly in-demand origin area tea version from the autumn, because they have trouble finding a version they can afford to buy and resell from the spring.  Once their applied mark-up involves trying to sell a tea at over $1 a gram they might naturally see market demand as a likely problem.

Could an autumn harvest version be more favorable in some way, beyond just being less intense?  This goes beyond my experience range to answer.  Those kinds of absolutes seem to never fully hold up, but you don't hear much about exceptions either.  It brings to mind a Chinese Wuyi Yancha producer describe how they never do more than one harvest per year for their teas (from their plants), because the cost is too high related to offsetting positive character of the tea and general intensity.  I think pu'er material sources are often harvested three times a year, twice for pu'er, in the spring and fall, and once in the summer for making black tea, although who knows, maybe that's completely wrong.  I'm passing on standard hearsay.

wild origin / varying genetic material teas:  this mixes two radically different inputs that tend to go together, growing conditions and plant types.  It's hard to say why a tea plant growing in the midst of other types of trees would produce more flavorful, more distinctive, and less intense and less challenging tea.  Maybe a lot of shading would reduce intensity.  Maybe plants do carry over flavors of what is growing around them (this generality is often repeated).  It could be that plantation tea tends to be more managed, weeded, and fertilized, the types of inputs that allow plants to grow at maximum speed and produce a lot of leaf compounds.  Who knows.  

We tend to want one or two causes to explain any given thing but in the real world a mix of lots of inputs can enter in.  Maybe it works out that monoculture oriented, high volume production plantations are often located at lower elevation, and more natural gardens higher up, and this one input alone changes things.

Genetic variation of tea plants is an even more complicated subject.  Some plants probably would interbreed with other Assamica or Taliensis versions, as people often speculate.  Just the normal range of variation of genetics by different locations is hard to place. 

effect of varying pressed forms on tea aging:  there isn't as much effect as one might expect.  A very tightly packed tuocha, or larger well-pressed cake, probably would age slower than a smaller, looser packed cake.  I've not seen much speculation about how dragonballs or tea coins age differently, but in general those aren't as favorable for brewing for other reasons, per my experience.  Maocha, loose versions, could potentially age a little faster, but it's still much more standard for vendors to carry and sell pressed versions.  

Related to shapes like dragonballs and tea coins, you end up taking 4 or 5 rounds to get all the material wetted, so you are brewing the outer material well into the transition cycle before the stuff in the middle gets started.  That still works, but out at 10 infusions in or so you have relatively spent material having been infused for longer than normal, to push the pace of wetting the inside, and to get enough intensity out of a fraction of the tea in early rounds.  So that starts contributing characteristic bitterness and off flavor before the infusion cycle ends, maybe green wood, as brewed-out sheng still produces well past 10 rounds.

This is more about aging, and I'm not sure how that would be different.  It might age faster in small forms, since most of the material is relatively near an edge.  For a hard-pressed dragonball maybe that's not as true.  A loosely pressed 357 gram cake might afford a lot more air contact exposure.  It makes sense to me that vendors have moved on to pressing everything a bit less tightly, making the tea easier to access, and potentially enabling more uniform fermentation.

optimum fermentation transition range for different types of tea:  this comes down to preference, as everything does.  Some people might only love well-aged sheng.  To me for factory teas, of a conventional style range, those really do work much better fully aged, so it's on to considering a now more dominant style range, more whole-leaf, higher quality, often narrow origin sourced (versus blended) range of teas.  Sometimes these are referred to as boutique style teas, but people probably mean different things by that reference.  Some would fold in quality concerns, not just style.  Some of these can be much more drinkable when young, and intermediate aging levels may make more sense, drinking them new, or within 3 or 4 years.

There are too many variables and potential outcomes to frame it all as being that simple though.  To me, as a general rule, a high level of bitterness and pronounced astringency, a rough feel versus fullness and richness, are the kinds of starting points that enable positive transitions, and to the extent these are very pronounced maybe more transition could be better for a tea.  I've kind of already said that, and this is more about the opposite range.

People sometimes criticize young sheng for being unapproachable (typically early on in their exploration), which could relate to different things.  Maybe they're just not acclimated to any bitterness yet, or a significant level.  Rough astringency feel can correspond with broken leaf or lower quality material; that's usually not so pleasant.  It's funny hearing different descriptions for off flavors in young sheng, like describing it as tasting like kerosene.  That kind of thing might relate to a quality issue.  A brand new 7542 cake doesn't taste great, per my exposure to those at different ages, but it might not actually taste like kerosene (like it smells; people don't end up tasting that).

The generalities only go so far; to some extent you need to try different types of tea at different ages to see what you like.  Something might really click that you don't expect, doing so.  Interesting flavor changes can occur, beyond the transitions that you might come to expect.  

a few intermediate range patterns:  I've been trying teas of different ages lately, and lots of different patterns emerge.  These are higher quality, relatively whole-leaf, origin specific, relatively less blended versions, again which one could think of as "boutique" versions.  Or not, the label doesn't change much, beyond narrowing things a bit further for some people.

One pattern is that some teas just fade away after a medium-long storage time, within 15 to 20 years.  Some can lose lots of intensity within a decade, even if the character doesn't change over to a relatively aged form.  I suspect that it's not so difficult to experience and identify a range of initial aspects or character that relates to the negative or positive transitions, it's just hard for me to draw clear and conclusive links.

Another negative pattern is that some teas end up expressing off flavors, eg. tasting like wood.  This is separate from less favorable storage conditions either adding negative flavor input (eg. mustiness), or suppressing fermentation transition altogether.  In general I think a range of styles and initial aspects probably tend to link to this outcome as well.  I'm not sure it's a one-to-one mapping of what you might taste in a new tea shifting to that later; it may work out that non-standard initial character could change negatively in different ways.

Then there are a range of positive transition patterns.  This can relate first to some teas being quite pleasant after very limited transition time, maybe 2 to 3 years of storage.  Rough edges can settle, and some depth can emerge, with bitterness and astringency mellowing.  Usually flavors won't completely shift over this short a time, but teas can change a lot.  The next two ranges of concerns are more complicated, an intermediate in-between stage, where it all can make less sense, as younger and older (more transitioned) aspects mix, and then finally, after 15 to 20 years, the final aged form can emerge, which is often interesting and pleasant, but not always remotely close to optimum.

atypical processing inputs:  this relates to a theme I've encountered a lot in South East Asian teas, with sheng pu'er often more oxidized (only one pattern, that overlaps with another topic already mentioned, drinkable when young versions).  That makes it sweeter, a little warmer in tone, and more approachable, at the cost of swapping out some aging potential (my take, at least, which does tend to keep changing).  How do I know that oxidation level was higher, in any given case?  You can taste it, and also see it in browning of the leaves, often more noticeable in the stems.  

Per input from one vendor (a main one in China) this can relate to not drying the tea to a normal level at one step.  Per input from another tea producer, and a researcher, this can be a very intentional style choice.  One producer even mentioned that they add more rest time to allow for oxidation after the heating / kill-green / fixing step, which isn't something I would expect.  I would've expected a long wither and initial oxidation to be a main input instead.  I suppose both could come up, used differently by different producers.

two examples of that, subsequent years from the same Vietnamese tea producer, both young

Some of my overall favorite teas have seemingly been processed in this way.  They can be sweet, warm, fruity (which relates to different inputs), and less bitter and astringent right away, very approachable and pleasant as relatively new tea.  I've not tried much of this range of tea aged for a decade to confirm that it wouldn't age well, or maybe none at all, it can be hard to keep track, since I've not been buying and tracking aging progress for lots of tea versions for over a decade.

Some other versions don't have this included as a noticeable input (although that may be hard to identify), and those other versions can also be sweet, mild, complex in flavor, and approachable over the first year.  I have confirmed that one of my overall favorite sheng versions--from Yunnan, sold by a main vendor--was best within the first year, still ok by the second or third, and then not as positive when I tried it later on.  I suppose that could have related to a processing input I've not identified, or mostly to plant type, or some other cause.  Even when you see interesting transition patterns play out you don't always sort out a clear cause or set of causes input that explains what had happened.

If some tea versions are a blend of lots of different versions of material, balancing out initial character, offsetting flaws, making the most of positive contributions from several, then it might be quite complicated what led to what as such a tea changes over time.

If a tea version is heated too much during the kill-green / sha qing step it will just seem like green tea.  That can still be ok; I've tried a version that worked out well for.  Related to input from a vendor it's possible for a cake pressing vendor--that kind of thing can be outsourced by producers--to overheat cakes during a drying step, and a comparable effect can occur, pushing the style towards green tea.  Again it's conceivable that the outcome could be positive, but more likely that wouldn't be regarded as a positive input, by the tea producer or by a endpoint customer.

problematic teen-age middle years:  I comment on this all the time, but left it out of the initial posted version.  People often mention that there are years in between early fermentation and final aged form that just don't make sense.  The tea can come across as flavorless, or else aged and young flavors can not match together.  It's such a standard theme that just mentioning that adds nothing new to the discussion, so I'll extend this line of thinking a little.  

This can happen at different actual ages, at a different number of years, because dry and humid storage happen at different paces.  A tea can be a decade old and still express young character, when dry stored (often in Kunming, but anywhere).  Where I live, in Bangkok, natural humidity is often around 70% RH, sometimes higher, and the heat seems to change and speed up transitions as well.  Within 5 years all of the newer characteristics have transitioned, and teas take on a relatively aged character within a decade, a bit ahead of a normal schedule.  It still takes about 15-20 years for a full transition process to occur, but this can take 25 to 30 under different circumstances.

Can a tea character be positive right at this stage; could preference lead to someone liking this character?  There's no reason why not, but in general no.  Teas just don't make a lot of sense at this stage.  Some greener aspects mix with warmer tones, but it all doesn't really integrate.  Flavors can come across as muted.  Feel doesn't transition over yet, and bitterness can be at an odd level, not gone, not pronounced as when young, but not matching the level of the older, more developed, transitioned range (jujube, medicinal herb, incense or root spice, etc.).

It wouldn't even be easy for people to evaluate how the next step would go at this stage, per my experience.  With enough practice maybe to a limited degree, but it seems to me that it might be easier to identify how a tea will age within the first 5 years than in between 10 to 12.

real cases being a bit complicated:  people tend to not write meandering, overly general descriptions of this sort of range like this, because too many variables enter in for the presented ideas to be cohesive and helpful.  The last half dozen posts about sheng versions highlights how that works, but I can't really extract an extra helpful few hundred words of description to pin it all down.  When you try a half dozen teas you see a range of outcomes, snapshots at a certain point in time, but you can only ever guess about specific inputs, or next steps, the further potential.

It makes it all the harder that the goalpost is a match to personal preference, not some range of objectively desirable outcomes.  Maybe shared consensus about what is positive lets those two themes map together, to some extent, but probably variations add up to as much range as the shared space.

This can seem to contradict what some online tea discussion expresses.  People more than a decade into exploration, more experienced than me, tend to discuss tea in shared, common ways, and agree on patterns and outcomes that they prefer.  Often these people learned those preferences together, even if they weren't sitting at the same tea tables regularly.  Tea groups discussing teas tend to collect and form into informal "classes," self-sorting to end up that way.

What does this leave out?  Probably as much as it includes, with parts included on the "getting it all wrong" side.  Whatever I write I often second-guess as my opinion and understanding evolve over time.  It seemed like a good time to collect some thoughts, but these will keep changing.

I didn't commit to whether gushu material tea really will typically offer more aging potential; lots of limitations like that must be included as well.  At a guess that depends on the tea style, largely tied back to processing choices, and other factors, more so than that one plant related input (plant age).  Probably in another 10 years I'd express that completely differently.

I think people with different exposure, with more budget to throw at their sheng pu'er habit, and draw on more input from a group of fellow pu'er enthusiasts, might be onto different patterns and outcomes I've yet to experience.  Or maybe they could "poke holes" in some of what is offered here.  I never do get much feedback about writing; that part of blogging never worked out.  It's understandable; I should be part of a set of friends who explore together so that more-interested parties read the content.  Even if we've never spoken it would be interesting to hear from you, about how your experiences work out, whether they're the same or different.  Or not; the standard paradigm of just putting ideas out there has been ok for me.

If you are a vendor who has sent me samples, supporting my exploration, then many thanks for that contribution.  This wouldn't have went as well without your help.

A small version of a tea tasting meetup (in Bangkok)

 

This last tea tasting meetup was really more just having tea with a few friends, but to me the way it worked out was interesting.  We tried some really novel teas, since two friends from earlier meetups had just visited China and Vietnam, even spending time with Huyen and her family there (in Vietnam), and with Seth.  I'd probably be more envious of that second part than visiting a tea expo; her family is amazing.

Since the interesting teas were the thing I'll get straight to that, and skip most of the back-story and other details.  We just got kittens a few days ago; that factored in a lot, so I'll mention it in passing, but that's an example of what I just said that I'd skip.  The kittens were well received, and Kalani helped with them and joined part of it, which has just never worked out before, either kid taking part.

I'll explain at the end what themes this highlights, how different kinds of tasting themes can work in different ways.  You don't really need one continuous, well-established theme for a tasting.

from another tasting (I should keep in touch better, mostly mentioning gatherings in this group)

What we tried

The tasting (from memory; some of this will probably be a little off).

Tea Side Dong Fang Mei Ren white tea:  we started with a tea I've reviewed recently, a white tea version of Dong Fang Mei Ren from the main Thai specialty tea outlet.  It's really nice tea, pleasant and interesting, and in a novel style (especially for being from Thailand), so it seemed a good place to start.  It's bright, sweet, fruity, well-balanced, complex, and refined.

that Tea Side Dong Fang Mei Ren (left), and a Gui Fei (rolled bug-bitten oolong)

another Thai Dong Fang Mei Ren white:  then we tried another white version of Dong Fang Mei Ren from Thailand that Steve brought; amazing it worked out like that (from Wang Put Tan, maybe it was).  I thought that might have been Tea Side's source, but the two versions were different.  They overlapped, being the same tea type, but oxidation level and aspects weren't identical.  Both versions were exceptional.  Probably producers can learn from what others do, and I've first tried Thai DFMR (Oriental Beauty) versions nearly a decade ago, so the theme has been around.

osmanthus rolled light oolong:  then we tried a flavored tea, unless I'm missing one, an osmanthus rolled oolong.  Flavored oolongs can be nice when the flavoring is natural, and this one was pretty good, relatively speaking.  It doesn't match the best plain teas, or even well above average versions, but it can be interesting trying different range together like that.  It didn't highlight the most potential a flavored oolong can have but it was interesting for comparison, and a nice tea, just a bit basic.

Ya Shi Dan Cong:  then Steve shared a Ya Shi Dan Cong (duck shit) version they bought in China.  It wasn't presented as the highest quality level, most costly tea version, since it sold for a moderate price, but it was pretty good.  The style wasn't identical to most well-above average Ya Shi versions, but it was close enough, and the variation wasn't necessarily negative, it was just a little different.  The smooth, roundish floral range typical of those was floral in a different way, with a different kind of vegetal edge, but without harsh astringency that can come up in some versions.  

It was really nice, really drinkable, and easy to enjoy.  People speak as if "breakfast tea" means something clear, as if a drinkable, moderate quality, pleasant to repeat tea experience can stand out for this context, and this would work well for that.  Black tea is nice with breakfast, but I more often drink sheng pu'er; it just depends.

Vietnamese sheng:  having tried so much oolong it seemed about time to change it up, so we tried a more-oxidized Vietnamese sheng version, one of my favorite teas, even though it's very non-standard, and not exceptional in terms of matching any of the standard pu'er range.  I don't think it would be great for long-term aging, that the oxidation input would offset that, but it's two years old now, and is probably getting better.  It's hard to describe what "more oxidized sheng" is like, but I've written plenty of detailed reviews that cover it in lots of detail.  This review compares the 2023 and 2024 versions; it would get into those kinds of background contexts.

those two "Quang Tom" tea cake versions (so fruity, I can almost smell them)

2018 Xiaguan Reunion sheng pu'er:  then we tried another sheng, that Xiaguan Reunion 2018 tea ball I reviewed recently, I guess not so much because it made sense in a sequence as much as because I found it so interesting.  It's not ready yet, in terms of optimum aging, far from it, but it's interesting see where such teas had probably came from and were heading, and how pleasant they are just now.  The mustiness from the local storage I said would fade over a month or two is already pretty much gone, and it has just been 3 weeks.  It drinks much better than it had, but it's still not where it will be in even another half dozen years, when transition makes more sense, or a decade, when it's closer to a final form.

looks like a tuo, but it's half a kilogram

high roast level Thai rolled oolong:  we got back to oolong, trying a well-roasted version, again out of Thailand.  Roasting had sort of taken over the character, making it more one-dimensional than most of what we'd already covered.  If someone would love that one flavor range it could still seem great, but low level oxidation, higher roast input rolled oolong isn't a personal favorite.  

Producers or vendors who have tea around that's a year or two old and want to add more freshness or appeal to it are kind of stuck, it seems.  A light roast might help, or there's always flavoring to be considered, but in general the material is as good as it is, and that's hard to change.

medium quality, medium roast rolled oolong (probably from China):  then we tried another that wasn't so different for comparison, to see if the gaps in that Thai version were a quality issue, related to the material missing range, or how themes might shift.  This moderate quality version had more going on, and less roast input, so it was better, even though it was clearly kind of medium quality tea, nothing exceptional.  It had a bit of a woody flavor, versus floral tones or warmer cocoa range standing out, but that also leaned a bit towards spice, so it was nice.

Thai black tea, prepared as ground tea:  then we tried something really novel, a ground up black tea, out of Thailand, an experiment that was supposed to draw on a matcha theme to be used to make milk tea, I think it was.  It was pretty good.  It ended up working out as brewed dust instead of obtaining a matcha-like whisked (blended) thickness, but maybe it had potential to be prepared differently.  

It's possible that maxing out astringency input and getting it to brew faster and more completely for use as a milk tea could make sense, that brewing this form could be better in some way.  Or it's possible that it's just an experiment, and completely brewing a broken leaf version would work out similarly, or even better.

I may have missed one or two.  It was a lot to try, and took awhile.  It was fascinating trying such a broad range of teas, and great talking so much that at times we drifted well off the subject of tea, on to current events, our own life patterns, politics, and so on.  People into tea are surely familiar with that, how tea can support much more lively and diverse conversation than alcohol, under the right circumstances.  And having kittens and a child join made more sense with the tea, than if we had been getting drunk instead.

So what is the point of sharing this?  Bragging?  Recommending that others get together with people they know, or don't know, and try lots of teas together?  To me it's that last part.  People into tea seem to often be pretty nice, and when others can appreciate a broad range then all of you being fascinated by lots of what is experienced really adds to a gathering.  

It can work mixing a lot of types of experiences together, with sub-themes mostly linking two or three versions, then moving on to the next range.  If you want to experience the most of a higher quality, refined form then it could be better to dial in focus and pay more attention, drinking teas that are similar in a sequence that makes sense.  But for a visit that divides focus on discussion and trying lots of tea range the other way can be good too.  

It can be interesting trying a tea with a novel flaw, just to see what that is like (trying one with storage flavor input contamination comes to mind, white tea probably stored near laundry soap), but of course then you wouldn't brew it for very many infusions, and in some cases might want to discard a rinse, if that frames it better.

It was especially interesting hearing about what a Chinese tea expo is like, and shops in a tea area in China, and how exploring tea in Vietnam went.  I feel like I'd be speaking for someone else telling a lot of their story in summarizing that though, and the ideas covered so much ground I would miss parts, or screw up framing.  It sounded like a real high water mark tea experience, the kinds of things I've never done myself (both of those broad themes).  I've seen markets in different places, and tea plants growing in a few, but it was never like that.

I'll sample a single interesting idea just to show what I'm leaving out.  They said that in China now no one pays with cash (not so unusual, I guess), and that you need to have WeChat payment capacity set up, or other local apps a foreigner wouldn't have, and that this one step was a bit tricky to clear.  It worked for them, so it wasn't a huge hurdle, it was just interesting hearing about the final process.  People use payment apps in Thailand too, but they're usually good about accepting cash, and often accept credit cards if they don't take cash.

There were lots of other tangents that came up; it would take pages to capture even main parts.  It was nice touching on personal background and current events some too.  I've met them all a few times, just not together, so it was like catching up again, and adding meeting my kids and the kittens added some chaos and also an interesting extra dimension.

Kalani made shirts for them from a sock

wearing a hat (with some goat's milk spilled on me)

they sleep all piled together, at times looking like a yin-yang symbol

Eye with them (right); thanks to Ploy (left) for giving them to us

Bangkok street food and food court options

 

this is out in Isaan instead, but the theme comes up a lot in Bangkok

just a market alley, not all that food related, but there would be stalls and shops in there

This discussion comes up over and over in social media groups, so I'll add some thoughts here beyond what fits in a typical post comment.  Some of the background context does get expressed in some threads, but usually it's just a list of personal favorites.  That's fine, but there are dozens of places that repeat, and what turns up in any given post is sort of random.

Let's start with categories, and more on to my own favorite examples of each after.

Street food versus food courts and markets:

True street food is vendor's cart on a sidewalk, which is everywhere in Bangkok.  Food from these places can be fine, but it does add some risk of foodborne illness, since those vendors don't have a kitchen or refrigeration to work with, for sanitation.  Some things seem safe in general; I'll buy cut fruit from them, and roti, and in general whatever is cooked in front of you is better than what is sitting already cooked.  Meats can be ok, but that is sitting out in Bangkok heat without a lot of refrigeration, so a problem could also occur.

Food courts can be a better option for Thai basic foods because they have those extra facilities, and because the types of foods overlap.  There are food courts everywhere, in most office buildings, shopping centers, malls, and in local markets.  The one in Terminal 21 (in Asok) is popular among tourists, but really it's nothing special, it's just presented slightly better than usual.  The Central World version is fine (but I was just in there and many options are 200 baht or so, way too much for food court foods), or in any other mall really.  Older or out of the way mall areas can be even better.  The food court in the Paradise Park mall is great, or The Mall in Bang Kae.  I'm not suggesting that anyone drive an hour or more across the city to go to a special food court; the idea is that different places can be good.

the Terminal 21 food court (credit the GoTouchTheSky page)

Local markets are an exceptional option; these tend to host busy food court areas, the informal outdoor versions, which often work out as local favorites, sometimes selling novel options.  Basics can be great at these too; my own favorite is Isaan fermented sausage with sticky rice, which pairs well with som tum, Thai papaya salad.  There's a nice local market in our area, on Rachawat road in Dusit, but it has a row of food shops instead of a market section, which isn't so different, but it's not the same.

a standard street market, the fruit section

a much bigger pineapple section at the Ta Lat Thai wholesale fruit market section

I just attended a local fair, with a market that was a nice variation of these.  Fair food includes grilled meats, Thai basics (like som tum), fruit, smoothies, novel desert or snack items (like battered fried bananas, or blended rice fried into sweet disc shapes), and just about anything else.  Grilled shrimp might be fine from such a place, or a seafood omelette; it just depends.  They were selling fried bugs there; I guess that's fine for a novelty, for something unusual to try, but I've not tried that.

that fair was based on a Squid Game 3 theme; strange

there was some food at this street art themed fair, not far from the Grand Palace area

Night markets would always include this sort of food shop / open food court space.  Many are geared towards foreign tourists, but in some places they're there mostly for locals.  Another favorite is in a completely local area, Bang Son, I think that is, beside train tracks (here), with one section as a food market and the other as a food court sort of theme, just on tables set up in an open space.  My daughter loves a crepe place there, and there's a shwarma / wrap place, but most is standard Thai food, chicken and rice, rice noodle soup, and so on.  Again it might be anti-climactic traveling across Bangkok to see a railroad market and food shop section; you would probably pass a half dozen similar places along the way.

that Bang Son railroad market place

local places carry a lot of Thai desserts and snacks, like this version

night market sort of shops space beside Victory Monument

I don't really have other favorites for night markets, but there is one outside the Central Rama 9 mall, another beside the Paradise Park mall, and a range of different related areas beside Chatuchak market in the Mo Chit area.  One of those is famous for being a top tier fresh food and fruit market, but since I don't go there it's not so easy to turn up a location link.  I go to a great place beside the Sam Sen railway stop, where fruit options and low pricing can be on par with wholesale markets, but then if your luck or timing is bad there might not be much there at any given time.

there is a good tea shop beside the Paradise Park food court, Ju Jen

People sometimes comment in discussions that most office buildings have food courts in them, and this isn't an exaggeration.  In the office building I worked in prior to the current one there was a food court in the basement, and two in adjacent buildings, with large local versions across and down the street.  Not so much in the building I'm in now; there is mostly just one main one in the basement.

We would go to two different food courts when visiting Chula university, to a pet hospital there (we have cats), but who knows how many of those there are on that large campus area.  There are relatively few places where anyone off the street isn't welcome, in any kind of area.  One other food court inside Chula seems to be mostly for students, somehow, but it would probably still work out to have lunch there, people just seem not to.  

Food street / local shop areas:

Some places collect lots of options together, that aren't exactly a local market or fair.  Ban That Tong road is our favorite example of this sort of thing; it's a row of over a kilometer of densely packed food shops, beside the Chulalongkorn university, near the Sam Yan area.  Our favorites are Cheng Shim Ei, a Chinese iced desert place that sells barbecue and crispy pork, and duck, with noodles or rice, a congee place, and a great khao soy place, northern Thai mild curry, typically served with chicken.  All of those are near the Stadium One building, near the Lotus on Rama 1 road.

at the Cheng Shim Ei shop with favorite friends who visited

But there are many examples of these, all over the place.  A row of different types of food shops near Siam One, in the Siam BTS area, is trendy and popular with younger people, a place to see and be seen as well as to eat.  It's behind the Siam One mall / shops area, so more or less a short block away from the BTS station.  Different food themes would be available there, including very standard hot pot and Korean barbecue variations.  

Thais eat lots of rice noodle soups, similar to Vietnamese pho, that are just not the same.  Fried chicken variations can be popular, or odd desert and snack themes, like a toasted bread place.  Japanese food is very popular across Bangkok, but Ban That Tong is more Chinese and Thai oriented, while the Siam One area emphasizes novel modern informal establishments.

Street food, in more detail

You can find almost anything as street food, but some common themes repeat.  It wouldn't be typical for someone to cook pad Thai, fried noodles, from a food cart, but they could.  Grilled meats is a common theme, or fried chicken.  Some places sell variations of the basic rice noodle soup that's a main staple.  Roti is my favorite (like a snack version of an Indian fried bread sheet); it comes as a plain sweetened version (tamada), or with egg and banana.

For many since food court areas are similar, or market related shop spaces, there is no reason to eat most of what is offered on sidewalks.  Bangkok has been removing such places, or went through a wave of restrictions maybe 8 years ago, but only long term locals would notice what is missing.

It almost doesn't make sense to ask where street food is good in Bangkok.  It varies by vendor.  To me market spaces, food courts, or food shop areas tend to have a more consistent theme or quality level, in specific areas.

Other favorites

My two standard favorite food shop or market basics are chicken and rice or crispy pork and rice, or barbecue pork if they have that instead.  Or it's really about what looks good.  A plain grilled chicken can be great, if a vendor is making a nice looking version of that.  Add some sticky rice (kao neow) and that's a nice lunch.

Lots of food shops, market stalls, or even street vendors sell just one kind of thing, and often that can be nice, across a lot of range.  We always buy fried chicken from a place in that market in Rachawat road (in Dusit, near Sam Sen).  A khao soy place will often sell just that (Nothern mild curry noodle soup).  Some local restaurants are the opposite, particularly if they are a Western theme / Western oriented place, and they'll sell a bit of lots of things.  Sara Jane's in Sathorn, near the Empire Tower, is an example of this (right beside a local food court area I'd mentioned separately).

It might sound like going local is the best way to go, to get great value on great quality food that sells for next to nothing, 40 to 60 baht a dish, a bit over $1.  That's it, but Thai chain restaurants can be ok too, basic ramen places (Hachiban / #8 ramen is nice), interpretations of Japanese food (like Ya Yoi), or fusion options, like the Pepper Lunch Japanese interpretation of Korean barbecue (sort of), selling meats with rice and corn.

Thais would have their own favorite shops, and would drive by plenty of other places to get dishes that are exceptional there.  We have a favorite duck noodle place (never mind where; it's too far out), and pork ball with rice noodle place (not far from the UN building, further along that road towards the river).

Tourist places tend to be among the worst options for decent local foods, oddly.  Beside Wat Pho, where we visit often, there isn't much at all, and there's nothing exceptional about the options in the Khao San road or Phra Arthit areas, beside each other in the old part of town.  True local areas are generally better.  

Tourist food shops tend to focus on coffee shop themes and bad interpretations of pizza.  Real local food shops would only be a block or two away, so wandering around a little might resolve this gap.  Not so much near Wat Pho; I'm not sure why it works out like that.  I was just in a radna place yesterday only 3 blocks or so away from Wat Pho, so I guess that could work as an exception, but no one would ever find that place without knowing exactly where it is.  I don't like that dish; it's basically the large noodles served fried with kale in pad see ew, often with fried pork, but with gravy, which I like less.

that one local food option I still haven't tried

2018 Reunion Xiaguan 500 gram Da Xue Shan tea ball

 

In visiting that favorite local Bangkok Chinatown shop not long ago, Jip Eu, they mentioned having a novel version of Xiaguan product that we'd never covered in discussion.  It's a 500 gram  / half kilo ball of tea, not a tuocha or a cake, something else instead.  It's 2018 Reunion Da Xue Shan origin tea, a special production version, seemingly intended for gift-giving, now called gifting.

Why did I never hear of this, since I've bought lots of Xiaguan tuochas there before, and two versions of an older Xiaguan cake from them?  That shop works out like that.  They have different amounts of one-off teas around, and that one might've seemed like something appropriate for giving someone as a gift, versus what a sheng drinker might buy for themselves.  They even offered to let me try it after I bought it, if I was going to buy it for myself, so at least I'd have a chance to taste it, assuming I might be giving it away.

packaging was a bit extensive

extensive

The information I have on it comes from them (Jip Eu) passing on a Xiaguan site listing, which of course has been automatically translated at some point.  It says this:

Mid-Autumn Festival: Drink “Reunion Tuan Tea”

Original by Cheng Nuanru | P u’er Tea Circle

September 24, 2018

The Mid-Autumn Festival, also known as Moon Night, Autumn Festival, Mid-Autumn Day, Festival of the Eighth Month, Moon-Chasing Festival, Moon-Watching Festival, Moon-Worship Festival, Daughter’s Festival, or the Reunion Festival, is a traditional Chinese celebration...

...The 2018 Xiaguan raw Pu’er “Reunion Tuan Tea” is made from early spring big-leaf tea trees from Daxueshan, Mengku, Lincang in Yunnan Province.

It’s crafted using Xiaguan’s century-old traditional handmade techniques.

If you reverse image search it, or search using terms (which doesn't seem to work), you can find this Dragon Tea House listing.  It includes almost no information about the tea, not a good sign.  At least it seems highly unlikely that someone is pressing a 500 gram ball of tea to pass off as a counterfeit of a moderately priced real version.

I'll skip mentioning the shop cost here; that might change over time.  They tend to sell older sheng on the low side of the standard range, and for some teas there isn't a lot of standard range to work with.  I found one example of someone selling this online (that listing), for $84, and it cost less than that.

Expectations related to aging transition and potential are interesting; a 2018 Xiaguan version shouldn't be ready yet, typically.  But then this may not have standard Xiaguan character, the rough edges, harsh intensity, and barnyard range character.  I'll say more about potential issues with it coming straight out of a storage space in the review notes.

Review:

#1:  on the light side; I didn't use a rinse, so this is just getting started.  Flavor range is interesting, smooth and layered.  Tones are warm, maybe even beyond what I'd expect for a 7 year old version.  It will be clearer next round though.

#2:  it's in an interesting place for being in between where it was and where it's headed for fermentation input and result.  It's intense, but without the typical Xiaguan barnyard flavors, which must relate to a different source origin.  This clearly wasn't light, flavorful, approachable, and sweet as boutique sheng can be earlier on; it still has a lot of power, and some bitterness and astringency.

The flavors are hard to break down to a list.  Mineral stands out, but as usual I see that as more of a base for the rest.  Earthiness could relate to wood or even dried mushroom.  That sounds worse than I would intend; it's complex and balanced, not overpowered by some off flavor, but it's not really centered on floral range, or the like.  Sometimes sheng can loosen up and shift a good bit over the next few infusions; the next one or two might tell a different story.  I'll have to keep infusion times short to keep intensity in check; this is a strong tea.

#3:  it might be musty tones that I'm picking up, possibly as much from a storage conditions input as the tea itself.  Jip Eu's storage is surely very hot and humid (all of Bangkok is), and relatively tightly sealed, so that tea straight from there has picked up some significant mustiness.  That usually fades, but it takes time, a month or two.  I'm not sure if the conditions and that input are a bad thing, neutral, or actually good.  Adding more air exchange to their storage area would resolve that in one sense, but that may cost the tea stored there intensity, removing more of what gives it flavor.  For well-sealed teas it wouldn't matter (sealed oolongs stored there); I mean for sheng, left open enough to access some air contact.  This was stored in what I take to be a muslin cotton bag, inside a box, with no plastic wrapper or bag layer, as is more common.  It would've contacted external scents all the more for that.

Flavor is still kind of clean; it's a bit of a contradiction.  There is that one edge, but beyond that nothing off, earthy, musty, or so on.  It's not really vegetal, at least not as much as is common with sheng still going through the first half or so of its aging cycle.  I'd have expected some residual floral range, but there's not much, and it hasn't transitioned to the standard dried fruit, medicinal herb, camphor, and incense spice ranges.  But it seems to have potential to develop in lots of directions.  There is a lot going on, a lot of complexity and intensity, I'm just failing to describe it.

#4:  it's cleaning up; a good sign.  It's not overly musty, not exactly tasting as if it had been in an attic or basement, but it had been in a storage area that should resemble attic background scent range.  The flavor could seem to imply either aged hardwood, in an unusual vegetal range, or on to rich dried fruit, or medicinal herb, or all of those things, maybe even including some incense spice.  I think I'm trying it right between it's early character and the aged version.  It certainly didn't "go quiet," as people describe as one possible outcome, but it's covering range that doesn't necessarily make sense together.

Some might read this as a negative assessment, but to me the opposite is implied.  It's in a great to place to develop into very interesting and positive range over the next 7 or 8 years.  Sure that could seem like awhile, but time passes quickly.  That would be a rushed version of the process, for a tea like this to be essentially ready at around 15 years into aging.  The hot and humid storage input has definitely rushed things along.

As I keep tasting it tobacco would be a reasonable interpretation, I suppose tasting like a cigar instead of cigarette or chewing tobacco.  That ties to this being anchored in earlier vegetal character and now moving on to richer, transitioned, warmer tones.  I would guess that in just 5 years it won't taste a lot like tobacco, mushroom, or attic, that it will have moved on to whatever other transitioned range instead.  There is still no "barnyard" range developing; it doesn't really taste like leather, cured hay, aged wood, or smoke.

#5:  it keeps getting better.  Sweetness picks up, and that distinctive mustiness is fading.  I think with two months of aging it will be less of an input, and I could tell better where this is going, but it's so far from it's final more-fermented form that it would only be so informative.  I think this tea is going to be wonderful in a half dozen years, and maybe fully at its peak in another 10.  It might be fine to drink through it in 7 or 8, close enough, but then it's always a judgment call finishing tea right before it's fully ready.  I might need to buy another of these, to own a full kilogram, to be able to keep sampling and also have plenty later on.

#6:  there might be more story to tell over the next half dozen infusions, but lots of round by round notes will be too much.  This still tastes in between cured and aged wood, and like tobacco, with complexity that is hard to place filling in from there.  It's not really bitter and astringent in relation to younger sheng range but there is some bitterness and astringency remaining; this started out as really intense tea.  It has lots of potential to keep changing.

#7:  sappiness of feel ramps up, and to some extent a related flavor.  It leans a little more towards pine now.  I suppose brewing a dried pine cone might taste like this.  It's interesting that this keeps changing, but one might expect that, given the earlier intensity.

#8:  more of the same, more minor transition.  It's definitely not losing intensity.  I'll cut off the note-taking here; a minor transition or two won't change much.

Conclusions:

I liked it.  The in-between fermentation ranges issue and mustiness from being direct from storage did stand out, related to how it is right now.  In terms of only how the experience is right now the 2006 tuocha version I tried not long ago is a good bit better.  It's harder to place longer term potential though; I think this might be good even before the general 20 year old age range, which doesn't come up for another 13 years.  In another 7 it might be in a good place, related to hot and humid conditions rushing that process, even though a more final form will probably level off in another 10 or so.

That raises a couple of questions.  Would it better if you stored it in a cooler and dryer place for 20 years, or 25, instead of rushing the process over 14 years here, or maybe on towards 20?  Maybe.  To be clear everywhere but Malaysia is a considerably cooler and dryer place, including Hong Kong.  Taiwan and Guangdong get mentioned as places with moderate storage conditions, which some describe as ideal, but then that interpretation mixes in some marketing spin.

One might also question if this storage settling period I've been mentioning, a month or two to drop out a lot of initial mustiness, is different than the version relating to letting a tea rest after shipping.  I see it as different and unrelated, but it may overlap more than I know, and correcting for storage conditions input may often be a part of that other rest period.  People rest sheng that has been shipped for a few weeks, or a month, to let it settle from being shipped, with variations in humidity and temperature said to throw off character a little, temporarily.  It's usually described as it seeming a little flat, losing some intensity, which comes back when it normalizes to more standard conditions.  This is about a mustiness fading instead.

Everyone has their own take on how storage issues work out, and since preferences also vary the conclusions are never completely identical.  I just saw a Reddit post about a guy storing tea in a wooden cabinet, without any plastic or mylar coverage of the cakes, just in the paper, all mixed together, at whatever temperature and humidity he lived at, in the Midwest of the US.  That's probably fine, but for some others it wouldn't be, maybe for different reasons.  

It makes a lot of difference if you are drinking through cakes in a couple of years, or a few, or holding onto them for a decade or longer.  I might use individual wrapping to limit air contact instead, the ziplock style bags cakes come in or the like, but that's not a critique, just a statement about personal approach.  If you open the cakes from time to time that's already plenty of air exchange, and probably even if you leave them sort of sealed for a few years it's still enough.  Mylar or multi-layer packaging restricts any air exposure better, but ziplock or the other light plastic wrappings, similar to food wraps, would allow for plenty of contact.  

According to the author of the Late Steeps blog--a great reference--air contact related to tea being sealed in mylar allows enough oxygen contact / exchange to support bacteria and fungus to thrive, one related consideration.  Who really knows, but it's interesting to consider.  Again all of these considerations really only kick in if you aren't actually drinking the tea at all, not even getting it out a couple times a year to check on it.

the chunk that came off in one pu'er knife stroke; it's nice that it's easy to access

2006 Xiaguan FT Te Ji sheng pu'er tuocha

 

On a recent visit to my favorite local Bangkok Chinatown shop, Jip Eu, the owner, Kittichai, gave me a Xiaguan tuocha.  They'll often pass on a sample of something interesting, but I don't remember them giving me that much tea like that (100 grams; not so much, but a significant amount).  It's very kind of him.  I suppose it's partly in thanks for me writing here about them, and steering some business there, which to me is about helping others find decent tea, not really about benefitting me.  I typically mention other shop options as well, as I did in the last post, discussing how Sen Xing Fa--another nearby shop--is set up better for doing extensive tasting.

I probably found what it was, more or less by chance.  A King Tea Mall listing looks exactly the same, down to all the numbers listed, and Chinese text (as far as I can tell).  Of course there is also Google Lens translation, but that helps less than one might imagine.  It's probably this:

2006 XiaGuan "FT-Te Ji" (Special Grade) Tuo 100g Puerh Sheng Cha Raw Tea

Listing for $26 for a 100 gram tuocha there.  That probably is market rate now.  You can buy the newer ones, that need another 15 or 20 years to age more, for more like $10, but someone holding onto it to cover that part costs you, with varying storage conditions inputs giving different results.  Then it's probably also an above average quality version, outlined in detail by that King Tea Mall listing:

Description:

The 2006 XiaGuan "FT-Te Ji" Tuo is part of the esteemed "Te Ji" series, denoting "Special Grade" in Chinese. This line of Puerh Sheng Cha, initiated in 2003 by XiaGuan, aimed to exceed the quality standards set by the JiaJi tuo cha. Renowned as "TeTuo" ("特沱"), an abbreviation of "TeJiTuoCha," this series underwent an official renaming in 2016, underscoring its prestige.

Distinctive Features:

The wrapper bears the trademark design of a "Pine tree and Crane," emblematic of the series' heritage and superior quality.

Variants of the "Te Ji" series include the general version and a higher-quality variant distinguished by a red-eyed crane.

The "FT" (Fly to Taiwan) version employs slightly superior tea materials, featuring more young buds and tiny leaves.

I had thought FT stood for "for Taiwan," but that doesn't change much either way.  This shop, Jip Eu, doesn't carry this tea anymore, per my understanding since they've sold out of a large batch they would've bought back in 2006 or so.  I do keep buying another 2012 Xiaguan tuo version there, which they still sell.

Review:

first infusion (after a rinse):  flavors are nice, subdued, clean (as this range of tea goes), interesting and pleasant.  The distinctive flavor that reminds me of aged horse saddle leather is there.  Harsh edges have largely aged off it, in those 19 years.  That would have to do with the hot and humid storage here; that wouldn't be true of the exact same tea stored in a cool and dry area.  

second infusion:  feel is thick, oily, and viscous.  I really do like that odd earthy range of flavors, especially in a version that's closer to ready to drink than I usually try.  I re-tried a 2012 Xiaguan tuo (from Jip Eu, the one that they still do sell) over the past week and it's close enough to enjoy, but not this far along for fermentation transition.  Beyond the leather--or at least what I interpret as leather--there is good depth of other range, mineral content, towards medicinal dried herb, and a little towards dried longan or tamarind fruit, it's just not overly fruity.  Feel is pleasant and the overall effect isn't harsh at all.

third infusion:  it reminds me a little of smoke, brewed a little stronger.  Often if a tea has contacted smoke that input will come out strongest right away, and keep fading.  This might well just be a natural related flavor, which does kind of match with the rest.  I'm not sure if this is a positive transition or not, related to my own experience just now.  I'm open to teas tasting like smoke, natural (inherent) or added, and it does match the other barnyard scope, but it's not necessarily better for including it.  Or worse either, as I see it, so just different.

fourth infusion:  quite balanced at this level; everything I've mentioned is still going on.  It's got decent intensity, of course.  I'm brewing this using a moderate infusion proportion too, for me, maybe only 7 grams in 100 ml gaiwan, versus the more typical 9 or so (typical for me).  Mind you not everyone would like this; to others it could be harsh, or off-putting.  The 2012 was more so, with so much of the earlier rough edges standing out.  I had my daughter Kalani taste it, and to her it was awful.  She asked why anyone would drink that.  I liked that version too (yesterday, I guess it was), but it wasn't quite ready, maybe by those extra 6 years.

her, posing

It's hot as Hades here, trying this tea in Bangkok at noon.  I should at least turn a fan on, but I've not even done that.  It was so nice living in Honolulu where the temperature is between 75 and 80 F all the time, maybe 25 to 28 C, and now it's back to 30s / around 90 F all the time.

fifth infusion:  the complex balance of flavors keeps shifting, the proportion, but the range isn't changing.  Smoke isn't gone but it was only a main flavor input for that one infusion.  Sweetness is nice for this; to me that one input helps tie all the rest together.  Feel is nice, and intensity, and aftertaste expression.  Layers of leather, barnyard flavor, medicinal herb, and some dried fruit really complement each other.  But only for people who like aged Xiaguan, of course, and it's hard to imagine someone preferring newish, untransitioned versions.

sixth infusion:  not different.  I might even drop taking notes here.  There probably will be some degree of interesting change as this wraps up, around infusions 10 to 12, or it could be pleasant and interesting up to 15 rounds or so.  Intensity is high enough for this that I'm using short infusion timing, 5 seconds or so, which will enable it lasting longer than if I was soaking it for longer.

Seeing a Tiger Balm pack of balm on the table reminds me how someone might interpret this as including quite a bit of camphor.  I suppose that it does, as people use that term.  I've never been completely comfortable isolating that as a description very often, but it's there.  Food range makes more sense to me; you get chances to eat those things, and it associates more naturally as a flavor.  Something like smoke is familiar enough from foods that this connection often makes sense too.  

Then I just can't remember specific floral ranges or incense spices.  Maybe this tastes a lot like one of them, and I wouldn't know.  Interpreting it as including incense spice would make sense too, but it would be helpful to be familiar with a half dozen of those, to break it down to that next level.

seventh infusion, comparison tasting with a Dayi (8582):  I was re-trying a standard Dayi cake with breakfast, not to see if it was ready, because it wouldn't be, from 2016 (9 years old).  It's pretty far along for spending that time here in Bangkok, but it needs at least another half dozen years, and it will level off closer to where it will be in another 10.  I keep trying the teas to see the transition patterns, because they're interesting.  It's not even about education or learning, it's just interesting.

The Dayi tea is harsher; it's not there yet for age transition.  It includes a green wood component, and a harsher form of astringency.  This is much better than it was two years ago when I first bought it (reviewed here then), becoming more pleasant.  Positive warm-toned flavors are developing.  

It's interesting how that "barnyard" range stands out in the Xiaguan.  It's not just that it's further along for transition, and it is that; the basic flavor range is also different.  There's a nice sappy effect that goes along with that, crossing over from flavor to feel.  I'm not sure what I expected this comparison to highlight.  The flavor and other character differences are interesting, but not informative.  It was sitting on the table beside me doing the tasting, so it seemed as well to try both and mention it.

This stopped short of guessing where the Xiaguan stands in terms of being relatively fully age transitioned, fermented, or how it might change over some of the following years.  19 years of transition in Bangkok storage is a lot, but it will keep changing over the next decade, probably mostly for the better.  It's definitely not going to run out of intensity.  Most of the green wood type flavor range and harsh-edged feel is gone, so it's fine to drink now, but it might still be a good bit better later.  I'd have to try it in another half dozen years to know.  I suppose that I probably will mostly set it aside to see.

Benchmark reference:  Liquid Proust now carries a similar Xiaguan tuo

I remembered seeing a mention of a Liquid Proust (vendor) Xiaguan tuo of about the same age, and that will help set what a market rate is for this.  Here is his listing:

2006 Xiaguan FT7653-6 100g, THB 1,016.95 (around $30)

Out of all the storage I've had there was always the Yang Qing Hao and Wistaria house notes that couldn't be rivaled. Then comes along this 2006 Xiaguan random tuo that has been pushed in warm and humid conditions in Taiwan. The depth of the tea with the smoke notes that are matured into something new with the puerh... it's a treat that I will miss dearly. This might be one of those extremely lucky finds.

Per the comments it's the aging conditions that give the tea great value, and the one Hong Kong shop that James of Tea DB keeps mentioning, Yee On tea, carries something similar for about double that cost, so $60.  

So market value is somewhere between $30 and 60?  That's a good bit for a Xiaguan tuo.  Next one would need to compare storage inputs to determine if the one I've just reviewed is really as good, or better, and personal preference would enter in so much in making that determination that it really wouldn't work, as an objective finding.

Thai minor deity tea cups, in the MBK mall; something different