Chen Sheng Hao 2020 and 2024 blended sheng pu'er

Someone mentioned really liking a value-oriented Chen Sheng Hao sheng pu'er online awhile back, so I ordered it, and a second cake to make a free shipping threshold (for orders over $70; that's quite fair, on the low side).  I don't remember which cake it was that they liked, of the two that I ordered; probably the 2020 version, but since personal preference varies it could have been either.

I like the idea of producers being able to make above average quality, low cost, blended input sheng pu'er cake versions.  That was always the theme for the Yunnan Sourcing Impression cakes, to be better than Dayi 7542 versions, and not cost much.  They gave up that second part; most Impression versions are over $100 now, or at least they had been, when I last checked.

I've tried a sample set of mixed versions of Chen Sheng Hao sheng before, sent by them for review.  Some samples (mini-cakes) were really exceptional, some pretty good, and some more in an ordinary range, but that was the idea, for them to present a set covering different range.  Previous individual posts would say more about all of that.

There was a problem with the shipping for this; Flash Express, a local Thai shipper, misplaced this on the last transit step.  Eventually I did get it, after some delay.  I think that's the second glitch in getting tea through them in about four tries, so they're around 50-50 for losing and then finding packages again, for me.  

Maybe it relates to the labels not being in Thai script (their local alphabet).  Transliterated place and address name use is very common here, but that may not work well for all local companies.  For people living in Thailand, and ordering tea from abroad, you really need to have it sent by standard mail / EMS anyway, so that import taxation is assigned at the local post office, versus packages being held at an import center, that they can't really make it back out of.  The process worked, this time, and as things worked out I have lots of other tea to be trying and writing about anyway, so the delay didn't matter.  But I'm getting to this fast, after getting it, because I've been curious about it.

2020 Fu Raw Pu-erh Tea  ($57 for a 357 gram cake)

Sourcing from Menghai, Yunnan

Blended (Multi-Region)

Tea tree over 80 years

The specially made Pu-erh was skillfully composed by Chen Sheng Hao with an elaborate combination of selected ecological ancient arbor tree aging material teas from tea mountain in Yunnan, China.

It affords liquid with a pure aroma and fine taste and is characterized by a sweet after-taste all its own. The tea has been well stored in the storage center of Chen Sheng Hao. The storage will help the tea to transform its bitter and astringent character into something rich and complex.

2024 Gan En Raw Pu-erh Tea  ($41 for a 357 gram cake)

Blended (Multi-Region)

Tea tree over 100 years

The 17-year development of Chen Sheng Hao owes much to the recognition and love of tea enthusiasts who have stood by us through thick and thin.

To express our gratitude to all those who have supported the growth of Chen Sheng Hao and accompanied the Chen Sheng Hao brand, we are proud to introduce the "Gan En" Raw Puerh Tea (357g ) and Gan En 99 Ripe Puerh Tea (200g). The name "Gan En 99" (感恩99) is a homophone for "Gan'en Jiu Jiu," (感恩久久) which means "Long-lasting gratitude."

The raw Puerh "Gan En" has a high, lasting aroma, a mellow and full flavor, and a sweet aftertaste.

There isn't really that much in those descriptions about flavor profiles, but that sort of makes sense.  Whatever they would have written originally about a 6 year old version would have kept changing from year to year, and even a description like "pronounced bitterness" may or may not apply well in a few years.  I'll add plenty of my own description here.

Review:  

way overbrewed, obviously; overestimating timing to get them started

2020 Fu Raw Pu-erh Tea:  warm in tone; I don't remember the age of this, but it can't be that young.  Bitterness and astringency aren't high, yet, which I would have expected from the color, but I'd expect the next round to be quite different.  This is quite promising.  Hints of pleasant warm toned floral range stands out, and there will be plenty of mineral evolving in this, it seems, and other complexity.

2024 Gan En Raw Pu-erh Tea:  a good bit sharper, with more bitterness and astringency, and one unusual vegetal range flavor, that borders on mineral tone, or overlaps with it.  It seems to include some citrus as well, along the line of dried orange or tangerine peel.  

Of course I've screwed up the proportion again; that's more or less my norm now, never adjusting for teas being on the intense side.  These are maxed out, at 8 or 9 grams, which means that I won't get too far through them (or rather I did, by way of drinking a lot of tea, and throwing away the last of some of the rounds).  It would make more sense to brew these using 5 or 6 grams, even for drinking one alone, I just don't usually make tea in that way.

A infusion #2, the 2020 version (I wrote notes without looking up names, which didn't add much later anyway):  brewed light these seem to still be opening up.  Bitterness and astringency are higher, and overall intensity, even for a flash brewed round.  Floral intensity and complexity is good; it's pleasant.  Feel is nice, although that will keep developing, as aftertaste also will.  

For a moderate cost version sheng this already stands out.  It doesn't seem like a lot of blending input has rounded off the more distinctive form of individual aspects either.  It's mostly covering floral range, which can seem a little general, but some depth to that could be different things, like cooked pumpkin or ripe papaya.  A flinty mineral edge is pleasant, and there is warm depth to the mineral as well.  It's nice.

B (the 2024 version):  that one bitter aspect really ramps up.  Someone would have to be ok with significant bitterness to like this.  I've eaten a lot of bitter gourd this year, or bitter melon, maybe some call it, grown in our garden in Hawaii, and this reminds me of that, the vegetal range mixed with pronounced bitterness.  I'm fine with a good bit of bitterness, but I tend to like more approachable sheng more.

This is so bitter that the aftertaste carries over as both bitterness and sweetness, which is interesting.  Usually the bitterness transitions directly to sweetness, but this still includes both.  Other flavor seems to be heavy on mineral.  That citrus fruit tone might re-emerge once the rest settles down a little.

A #3:  not so different; it might be a few infusions until this evolves further.  Bitterness, full feel, with considerable astringency, and warm floral and mineral tones stand out.  The balance is good.  I think it will be better once it loosens up a little more, in a couple more rounds, but it's pleasant now.

B:  other flavor starts to develop beyond the bitterness, but that bitterness really still stands out.  Did I ever read the product description, prior to ordering this?  At least it has plenty of intensity to continue to evolve; there is no way this tea would just die, over any time-frame.  

People might place this vegetal range differently.  There's a sharpness and heaviness to it that reminds me of pine sawdust, for example when you are cutting a lot of plywood, maybe to put a roof on a house.  It's also not unlike bitter melon, or bitter gourd.  I just bought that as a pre-prepared herb tea, sold in Royal Project stores here.  It's a bit intense, to be infusing as a tisane, even in a trace amount, but if it's as healthy as the rough taste implies then it would be worth it.

A #4:  this evolves into a spice range depth; that's pleasant, and a good sign for further aging transition.  It's along the line of an incense spice, some exotic bark flavor, agar wood or whatever (just placing the range; I really can't identify that particular flavor).  It's not really "loosening up" in terms of initial intensity and punch softening, but it should get there.

B:  this does continue to evolve to soften and come across as more complex, but the other has been more approachable and less intense across all the transitions.  I don't find that somewhat extreme vegetal range off-putting; it kind of works.  It's distinctive, and pretty far from the not so pleasant "tastes like kerosene" sheng flavor that puts people off, the more typical factory version input.  Maybe this starts to taste like leather instead of pine sawdust, a positive transition.  

But it's not as unpleasant as that makes it sound.  Sweetness is good, bitterness kind of works, feel isn't so bad, full and intense, but nice enough.  You're in it for the ride, with this degree of intensity, and challenging character, but it works, within that range.

A, #5:  now it loosens up, a little, gaining even more warm spice complexity.  It's hard to pin down what that newly evolved aspect is.  Let's just leave it at warm spice, and give it another read as rounds progress.

In re-trying it during editing I don't mention a dry edge to the feel, which seems to link to a particular range of mineral flavor.  For some people that would balance nicely with the rest, for others it could be inconsequential, and for others yet it could be a deal-breaker, a very negative aspect range that ruins the experience.  Higher end, more expensive, often presented as gushu material sheng tends to be different than this, to express a softer but full feel, and a lot of depth.  So I suppose it's not just personal preference in relation to aspects and styles that factors in, but acclimation to different other ranges of sheng pu'er experience.

B:  this loosens up too; that's pleasant!  Bitterness evolves to soften and fall into a lower range balance with the rest.  Tones seem a little warmer.

A #6:  this integrates as a unified, balanced experience better than ever.  It's definitely punching above its weight for a well-balanced, complex, and intense moderate cost sheng.  Feel is pleasant, and intensity carries over to a nice aftertaste expression.  Warmer mineral tones, now transitioned to include a good bit of spice, balance the lighter mineral, bitterness, and floral range.  

This doesn't include the aggressive, harsher intensity that might indicate it would still be intense in complex in another 25 years, but it doesn't seem like it would just die either.  It's in a nice place for medium age range transitioning, no matter how old or young it is just now.  Within the next 5 years or so it should keep on picking up warmer tones and depth, before it eventually might fall into a "teen years" sort of off character, not balancing as well for changing from one thing to another.  It would be pleasant during those transition years (the next 5), because it's pleasant now.

B:  it's interesting how floral range really seems to pick up in this, as if perhaps it had been there all along, but it needed the bitterness and other vegetal range to quiet down a little to show through.  It has a really pronounced green vegetal note, which I've been describing in different ways, as it keeps evolving.  Sure, it still tastes somewhat like bitter gourd.  But that flavor is quite different when it's hitting hard as a very dominant tone, and when you can get it to integrate with other range (I mean related to cooking with it, but here as it works as one component among others in an infusion).  

This may loosen up well too, over the next 5 years, with that heavy astringency, bitterness, and vegetal range giving way to whatever it transitions to.  It's not as pleasant just now, per my own preferences, but I suppose for people really into bitterness this is already just the thing.  It will probably be the best it has been within another 3 infusions or so, which I may not make it to during this round of note taking.  A dozen rounds of intense sheng is a lot to get through.  I've been throwing away some of the last of these rounds, to get a little further through, but I've been drinking most of it, so I'm 10 intense infusions in, which is an awful lot.  I'll probably do another, to mention some last thoughts on transition patterns.

It kind of goes without saying but brewing 5 or 6 grams of just one of these teas would be a lot more optimum than brewing 8 of both together.  On one level I already knew that, but it's a hard habit to break.

A #7:  the best this has been, but I could write the same words as the last round and those would work.  Warmer mineral and spice tones balance what had been present well.  I'll probably taste both of these again and notice that I missed some pretty obvious flavor descriptions.  I tried that one Viet Sun maocha again, one of the Y Ty versions, and noticed pronounced mint in later infusions, which I hadn't mentioned.  It can work out like that.  

There is so much warmth and depth in this that one part reminds me of a very light roasted coffee flavor.  You know when the berry notes present in some coffee can still emerge, because roast hasn't pulled it so far in the other direction?  Like that.  It's not overly berry-like, but something like dried blueberry might fit one part of it.  I'm not really pushing the tea hard enough to get the most conventional flavor expression out of it; these have still been very quickly brewed infusions.  That would surely mean these are only half spent so far, so that I'll miss the second half of the rounds in taking notes.  That's fine.

B:  again this balances better than ever too.  A full, syrupy feel is much more pleasant than a harsher blast of intensity in earlier rounds.  Sweetness stands out more, and floral range.  One part probably does relate to a dried citrus peel note, which was much lighter earlier on.  It's still a bit intense, and the feel is still a little harsh, in terms of pulling at the sides of your mouth, especially after you drink it.  

This might not have fully "loosened up" just yet; it may be best after a couple more rounds, at infusion 7.  If I had brewed 5 grams instead of 8 it could be much further along, for using longer infusion times, and speeding up that cycle.  Somehow this seemed like a mistake that had to be made.  I really don't understand why, but then I'm guided by intuition as much as reason, and I'm probably just botching lots of range of experience in making random choices like that.

A #8:  it might be time to start using longer than flash infusions for this.  It still provides plenty of intensity in that form, but the character would change some.

B:  for this one intensity is high enough that extending brewing time probably wouldn't help; this is enough.  The aspects description from the last round still works for both though.

A local Thai tea friend, who I don't know very well, that one guy that gets presented as a tea expert, Stephen, gave me a quite bitter sheng version a couple of years ago, that this reminds me of, in part.  It has softened and deepened to be quite pleasant, of course not losing all of that bitterness.  This probably includes a little more of a distinctive vegetal range flavor; that was just straight bitterness, with the usual floral and mineral range supporting that.

Ninth round, combined notes:  the bitterness, feel structure, and intensity ramp up for the first version, when brewed longer.  The balance does shift, back to more typical young or slightly aged sheng range, a couple years into transition.  The other tea picks up even more green wood character.  I suppose I hadn't been calling it that, but that's where it has shifted to now.   

Conclusions:

Very pleasant teas, considerably better than I expected, or even hoped for.  They're not even finished in terms of me getting a full experience of them, in general or for this brewing cycle; I can change brewing process and they'll be much different.  Within another year or two they'll be different in a different sense, actually evolving some in terms of fermentation transition, no matter how old they are.  It will be interesting looking up what these are, and commenting in relation to that.

Related to value you tend to never spend a moderate amount (around $100 for these two cakes, when many in a comparable range cost that for one), and see good results, and these were really nice, for value-oriented versions.  Again opinions would vary on that; some people would love them, and find them much better than the factory sheng that they've been experiencing, and for others accustomed to other range they could both seem off-putting.

The "older" version, from 2020, is at a decent place, for people who like a tea with a number of years of transition.  I'm accustomed to teas transitioning fast, living in Bangkok, and they surely weren't stored that hot or humid.  The storage input seems fine, related to conditions, to the extent someone can say anything about that.  They would've been better preserved, if stored quite cool and dry, so at least they are transitioning.

It's interesting to speculate about the high bitterness level and unusual vegetal nature of the younger 2024 version.  I think within 2 years it will probably come across quite differently, and I can't really guess about how it will change (especially flavor range, I mean).  For a tea sold at that price point it's great, because that's down in moderate cost factory tea range, and it's much better than that.  Of course someone needs to be ok with significant bitterness.  It doesn't include the challenging astringency that comes with low elevation grown, chopped plantation material versions, but it still packs a punch.

If you spend twice as much you can find versions like the 2020 tea that include slightly more distinctive flavor profiles, and more positive feel, but at this selling price point you probably can't do any better, if you can find anything remotely comparable to start with.  It's a perfect tea for a daily drinking rotation, when you feel like that style range; the role I hoped that it would fill.  It might hold up well to another decade of storage, and more complete aging, but I may well not find out, since I'll go ahead and drink it.

The 2024 tea might be much better after 2 or 3 more years of "early" character evolution; time will tell.  It's fine now, if an intense, bitter, somewhat vegetal range experience works for someone (with more floral flavor range expressed, but a little green wood or bitter melon flavor really stands out).  It might age well in the longer term; I really don't know.  One part of the "benchmark" theme related to the Dayi 7542, and the like, or typical Xiaguan character, is that you can expect common, known early character type to change in expected ways, but this is a little different.

1990s 8972 (aged sheng pu'er)

I'm reviewing an interesting version of tea passed on by my new tea friend, who I've mentioned in the past two posts, as one of the founders and owners of Teas We Like.  I don't know that this is one of their products, since we didn't discuss that, but it could be, since there's one on their site that matches the little I know about it:

90s CNNP 8972 Naked Brick  (listed for $120)

This is a 90s 8972 brick from CNNP. There is some debate about this recipe, but we believe it is a blend of predominantly sheng with some light fermentation shou. This brick went through traditional HK storage and then spent 20 years in dry Taiwan storage, resulting in a very clean, dark, and satisfying entry with plenty of thickness and bittersweetness. It has a dense, strong Menghai character. It has no wodui aroma or taste, no smoke, and a small amount of traditional storage earthiness in the background. A good casual and comfortable drink with an aged puerh profile.

250g brick, not wrapped.

That pricing seems on the low side, for tea of that age, doesn't it?  But then "a good casual and comfortable drink" sounds on the basic side.  Basic for them might mean something else entirely for more casual tea drinkers.

It's especially interesting that they speculate that it could be a mix of mostly sheng and some shou.  I've heard of such things, but there's a good chance that this is the first time I've tried an example.  I didn't notice that much shou input in trying it, but then roughly 30 year old sheng isn't that familiar a theme to me.  

I could add more about the last 2 in that number code relating to the Menghai Tea Factory, now known as Dayi (or Taetea), but that leads straight into early history of Chinese tea production that I know little about.  Different producers made tea for the main government entity, which already implies more than actually mean.  It's easy to look up more on that background, that would fill in some details.

I wrote these notes before seeing that description, which is how reviews here always go.  I knew what was in the post title.

Review:

#1:  interesting!  I've tried aged sheng before but it has been a long time since I've tried anything similar to this, even though it might be a standard enough form, probably well above average factory tea, favorably stored, and around 30 years old.  

It's clean at the start.  In some past cases--of trying older sheng, even some from the 80s--there was a heavier fermentation input flavor range to get past, which took a couple of infusions, but this might just include a little more char effect than it's going to after another round or two.  What I take to be what people describe as betel nut comes across in a strong form right away (although to be clear I never get around to trying that, even though it's out there in Bangkok's Chinatown).  Feel is especially nice too, rich and smooth, a bit velvety.  Aftertaste is pronounced, although that will probably pick up further, leaving behind that heavy mineral, unusual herb, and the touch of char.

I could keep going; someone could free associate another more flavors or experiential aspects, just from this first infusion.  That's really something.  It leans a little toward a dried fruit that I'm not making out.  Warmer and heavier tone could seem a little like an aged tree bark, maybe pine bark, but it doesn't include the sharpness of pine needle.  The mineral range is interesting, but it's easy to get stuck on that tasting like some kind of rock.  I'm not getting much ginseng or medicinal herb yet, but those would fill in a lot of the rest of the typical flavor range of aged pu'er, or I guess camphor also might be added to that.  

It was an interesting first round.  This will "clean up" over another round or two, and the minimal mustiness and char will probably drop out completely, even though it wasn't pronounced.  

#2:  creaminess picks up; that's pleasant.  The early char is transitioning nicely to include a heavy and warm bark spice.  It's always hard describing what the rest of bark spice range is, or root spice, for that matter, beyond cinnamon (and ginseng).  I drank a broad range of tisanes over a decade or so before getting into tea, but didn't keep track.

I think I'll limit the free association of possible flavor connections this round.  It's nice just experiencing the tea.  

Maybe I am already "feeling" this?  I'm internally inconsistent, making it harder to judge that kind of thing.  I don't sleep so regularly, and often get really intense exercise inputs in long runs, so my body works through a lot of natural variation.  Some really pleasant ocean swimming and getting extra sleep has been balancing me better than usual lately.  

It does seem to impart a calm, clear energy, even though I don't notice or value that about teas much.  I'm on a balcony on a sunny, breezy, perfect temperature day, sitting beside rustling palm trees, so maybe some of that effect would happen without tea.

#3:  even using moderate proportion (for me, or really just normal range, about 5 grams in 100 ml gaiwan) this is fairly intense.  4 grams would've been fine.  As I've covered at length here I don't weigh tea, but from trying countless samples of different sizes I feel like standard amount / weight baselines are familiar.

Depth increases this round.  It had significant depth before, but now it's more.  Where it gave a full, rich feel in the mouth before now it's coating those surfaces.  There's aftertaste, and the feel itself also carries over.  It's interesting.  People talk about feel residing in different places in your throat or mouth, which I've also not learned to value.  This contributes a substantial feel across your mouth, not so much centered in the back of the throat, but across the tongue, roof, and front in a unique way.  I'm not sure if that's a good thing, but it is interesting.

What I take to be betel nut is still quite pronounced, and there is warm bark spice, or aged tree bark, and lots of warm mineral.  But I'm missing something, or maybe a couple of things.  An effect related to root spice seems to join that.  Sweetness is a little like dried fruit, but not in a familiar range, and I get around to trying a lot of dried fruit.  It feels relatively rich and full.  

There's a strange effect that happens here--when I'm in Honolulu--that the more calm, focused, and present I am the more I hear birds.  They're always there; we live right beside a giant park.  But I usually don't hear them.  On a walk to swim I relax and become more present, and they sound loud, there are so many.  There are a few saying different things just now.  I'm not claiming that this tea experience is connecting me to the universe, or anything such, since just relaxing for an hour could help with that, but the energy feels good.

#4:  I had my wife taste this tea and she said that she doesn't like it, that it tastes like mold.  That's a nice counterpoint.  It can be interpreted as tasting like those half-circle shape fungus disks on fallen tree trunks tend to smell like.  It probably helps more than I'm noticing that I've tried much murkier aged sheng before, so to me this tastes clean, light, and pleasant, but still nicely complex, with nice depth.  As my friend mentioned lots of old tea, old sheng or other range, tends to taste like pond water (or was that swamp water?).

I think that people open to this general range would like this, but it's the next consideration whether acquiring a preference for range like this is a natural outcome, or if just an inter-subjective group norm, because others in "tea circles" tend to like it.  Across a range of forms aged sheng is still an odd flavor range, from any normal perspective.  I think it makes sense to dismiss the two extremes, and then consider why falling in the middle, towards either side, seems more natural.  "That tastes like mold" is the one extreme; the other is the developed, refined, "advanced" range of aspects and experiential states.  Including positive or negative judgmental descriptions kind of assumes the conclusion.

A small green gecko joins me; I just saw a baby gecko right here a few days ago, which oddly never comes up.  In both Thailand and in Hawaii people love geckos.  Partly because they eat insects, even inside the house, but it may relate to a connection to nature that's different than in mainland perspective.  The birds are your neighbors, and although competing with the squirrels for mangos back in Bangkok can seem off-putting it's their home too, so they should get some.  They eat most of them; they cheat and don't wait until they are ripe.

About preference development, an interesting case came up in discussing Japanese interpretations of Scotch whiskey.  That's a learned preference, that can surely be complex and refined, with a literal strong form of poison as the base of the experience, that almost no one would like without conditioning to like it.  Within the range of whiskey experience much better aged versions probably would seem incredibly smooth, complex, and approachable, but surely to the average person without that acclimation it would just be less bad.  

I think aged sheng is a different kind of thing, and people could appreciate it and like it without conditioning, but maybe not as much as basic Tie Guan Yin or Dian Hong.  I have trouble fully placing what that means.

#5:  I tend to lose focus and interest on writing long before a full infusion cycle.  Sure, teas keep changing, and brew plenty of rounds.  But I only need to describe the general effect of the experience, not every last detail.  I'm already stretching infusion times, out to 20 seconds or so, and this will relate to going longer as rounds continue.

It's not developing, not heading in new directions for aspects, related to flavor, aftertaste, or feel.  It's not really fading fast either, but I suppose intensity is decreasing.

Related to really pinning down a flavors list I've probably missed something along the line of heavy mineral, bark spice, or root spice.  The feel was more interesting, and the overall clean nature (even though per that one secondary input it tastes like mold).  

This tea must have been pretty intense originally to retain this degree of intensity, complexity, and depth across the last 30 years.  Storage conditions must have been a lot less humid than I'm familiar with in Bangkok, since teas can pick up a heavier musty flavor range within a decade and a half or so.  It seems relatively fully fermentation transitioned, which brings to mind whether that not happening in drier storage could still be possible over 30 or so years.  Probably it could.

All in all a very interesting and pleasant experience.  Pushing the next round a little more (#6) it does transition, but in the ways you'd expect, the light wood and spice note develop.  Spice a little like clove is picking up, just not exactly that.  It's as pleasant as it has been, very clean in effect, maybe slightly thinner in feel, but with good depth, and nice mineral range expression.

Oolong pu'er, revisited

 

one of my all-time favorite teas;  it was fresh, bright, sweet, fruity, and approachable

I wrote about this theme long ago (in 2018, here).  Before posting this I'll re-read that, but it's really on a slightly different topic.  In the past people that's what people called sheng pu'er that was approachable when young (newish), or else "pulong," if it wasn't bitter and astringent.  That could have related to some oxidation occurring as a processing input, but the tea character could have worked out that way for whatever varying reasons.  Plant type material and processing varies, and climate and weather input does, and so on, so a tea could be approachable and lack challenging forms of aspect intensity for different reasons.  One other input could be that it was over-heated, so more similar to green tea, which works out in some comparable ways, but that isn't the same thing.

The main idea, as I remember it, was that sheng pu'er that is sweet, mild, floral, and fruity (often including that range) early on won't usually age as positively, and it's more suitable for drinking within a couple of years of production.  Or maybe that was just my take, which could've shifted some since then?

This is about pu'er with actual oxidation input, more specifically about a few related versions like that from Vietnam, so really "pu'er-style tea," given the Yunnan origin naming designation limitation.  That naming convention is a bit odd, to me.  Matcha isn't restricted, that name, or Oriental Beauty isn't (which is kind of politically incorrect now anyway), and limiting something like Darjeeling to that named origin area is completely different.  But I get it, and will just move on.

the 2023 (left) and 2024 versions; it may not only be extra age making one darker

Quang Tom Lao Cai origin examples

This theme comes up a good bit related to South East Asian origin sheng pu'er (or the same tea under whatever name you apply), but not as explicitly as in this case, where the vendor is open about the input.  It's written on the label (for a tea I just reviewed, from the Quang Tom producer out of Lao Cai, Vietnam):

Name: Freshly Fermented Green Tea Cake (Green Tea Series) 

Ingredients: 100% ancient Shan Tuyet tea buds, sun-dried and fermented. 

Storage: Store in a cool, dry place with humidity < 70%, away from direct sunlight. 

Shelf life: Suitable for long-term storage under appropriate conditions. 

Instructions for use: Take 5g of tea and brew with 250ml of boiling water (>95 degrees Celsius), steep for 30 seconds, then pour into a cup or mug to enjoy. 

Food Safety Certificate: 04/2024/NNPTNT Phone: 0961.129.186 Address: Bac Ha Town, Bac Ha District, Lao Cai Province 

Produced by: Quang Tom Cooperative, Bac Ha District, Lao Cai Province, Vietnam Production date: 06/2023 Net weight: 350g

Then again it's not really green tea (mentioned on that label), but what else would they call it?  Some South East Asian producers call it pu'er anyway, but I can see why more don't.  The most common work around is to call SE Asian "pu'er" dark tea, a reference to hei cha, and that doesn't work very well either, because pu'er may or may not be hei cha, depending on how one interprets the category breakdowns.

That reference to fermentation could just mean aging input, change related to fungus and bacteria activity since it was produced, but I'm taking this to relate to an addition of extra oxidation.  Whatever words cover those two processes in Vietnamese may not be clearly distinguished through translation, or a decade ago it was pretty common for Chinese producers to refer to oxidation as fermentation (again probably related to a translation error).

I usually use "sheng" to describe the tea type, but if they translate that on to "raw," that actual meaning, then it makes no sense.  Raw what?  The old Vietnamese name related to the sun-dried form, per some hearsay input, calling it "dried tea," which doesn't really help.  I've seen it marketed as snow tea or shan tea, but none of that is a real common type name (and per some recent input some of that is a reference to plant type range there, so I guess to some range within the Assamica variety, not processed tea type).  So green sort of works, even though it's not really that.

Related to this tea, to 2022, 2023, and 2024 versions of it that I've reviewed here and here, base flavors of honey and dried apricot stand out, with citrus or other spice range varying by version.  That makes it sound like there is some pleasant complexity, and that's true; to me the teas were quite enjoyable, complex, and well-balanced.  They are personal favorites.  They just lacked typical sheng bitterness and astringency, which for many would be giving up a lot.  For people who have only tried factory tea versions it might be hard to relate to that being a problem, but those inputs balance a lot better in higher quality, more whole leaf versions.

In discussing this with Steve of Viet Sun he raised a good point about why some might not like teas like this:

I think they are interesting. And also very easy drinking compared to traditional or semi traditional young sheng.

One of the big things people are into with puerh is the terroir inputs so making reddened puerh really takes a lot of that away. 

So you can have teas from different places that taste similar.  That kills the experience for a segment of that community.

I agree completely, even though I hadn't been thinking of it that way.  A version tasting like pear, honey, dried apricot, and citrus is distinctive, but somehow a lot of the complexity young sheng expresses does seem to get narrowed down in related versions.  It can be hard to write out the list of a half dozen distinctive flavors, as people tend to, but even without generating such a list you generally get a sense that there is a lot going on with many forms of sheng, usually seemingly accurately attributed to a narrow origin terroir input.  

Bitterness balances the rest in an interesting way, and that astringency adds depth.  There might not be more flavors expressed, so complexity could be similar in one sense, but somehow it often seems there is more going on.  It's not always completely positive, but in the better half of all cases it all is generally good.  Transitions across infusion rounds can vary more, even though that also just depends.

Farmerleaf more oxidized sheng pu'er examples

This theme comes up elsewhere, in other cases than atypical South East Asian tea processing.  Here is an online post from Farmerleaf on this subject; that I see as interesting background:

That's labeled as "Partially oxidized Puerh tea: let's try it again!," relating to a 2023 experiment.

William regularly explores and experiments with tea style variations; his channel includes lots of reference to that.  To me it's especially interesting related to descriptions of sheng and black tea processing.

Of course I'm not saying that this processing is somewhat identical (in the Farmerleaf experiment and the Quang Tom producer version).  That tea, in his video, was oxidized through a very long wither, prior to the frying (sha qing / kill green), and per discussion with Phuoc, the Quang Tom producer, at least some of the oxidation in the other Vietnamese versions occurred after that step instead, and maybe more of it.  I'm listening to that video again now as I write this; I lose track of what I've seen.

The darkening of his leaves during the frying step does look similar to the darkened Quang Tom version.  It's interesting that William mentions using a low heat to limit the charring of the leaves, in that extra dried conditioned (the withered leaves, left to rest for an extended time, weren't re-wetted).  His description goes further; it's really worth watching.  He says that roasting the tea can be included but it will simplify the tea character, so it has to be used sparingly, and that he isn't including that extra step for that batch.

I think I want to keep it that way [not pressed, as moacha] because it's an entertaining tea of course but maybe not achieve that a tea Enthusiast would would like to have every day.

He ends up saying more about how processing inputs, the frying approach, changes things than how the extra oxidation makes a difference, but that's especially interesting:

I don't Shuffle it too much because I want the steam to build up in the batch, so I will use minimum shuffling just to prevent any strong burning.  And then if we want to make a roast I think we'll try to do that a bit towards the end.  But I'm a bit scared of doing that roast because a light roast can really enhance the complexity of the tea, but on the other hand if you do it too much it also simplifies everything, so roasting is a bit like putting sugar in the tea.  It's a bit like it somehow when you smell it's more complex but the mouth feel tends to be a bit more simple... 

He never did include video content description from when it was finished, in that clip, beyond this comment:

I can smell both and you could say a new long-like fragrance so an oxidized fragrance mixed with some notes of roasting...

photo of the leaves from the product listing, probably before sun-drying

A bit of Google search turned up the product listing:

Spring 2023 Reddened Puerh tea

Processed on April 8th 2023

Ancient tea garden leaves from Nuo Gu Wan, Jingmai village

24 hour-long withering, check the video to know more

This is a continuation of an experiment we made last year. While conventional Pu-erh tea benefits from 2 to 6 hours of withering, we let these leaves on our bamboo baskets for a whole day. This leads to a reddened tea, which has to be processed carefully due to the lack of water in the leaves. After pondering the question over the length of a video, I decided against roasting the tea, and kept the temperature on the lower side during the session.

Still no aspects description there, but we can accept a customer comment as limited feedback:

Nice experiment. I was lucky to get a bag of 70g.

On then first infusion seems to be a white tea, fragrant, elegant smooth sweet thin no astringency and bitterness. With the second infusion it is showing slowly up its raw puer character . I like it very much.

Another comment mentioned the approachable nature, limited astringency and bitterness, and a hint of citrus.  

If the Quang Tom producer had used an extra roasting step that could explain the darkened leaves in the 2023 version, since they look to be charred a bit in processing.  Or maybe they also pan-fried (kill-greened) partly dried leaves, also using a long wither, and that led to some being singed a little during the frying step.  William stressed that you need to be careful to avoid over-roasting, and the related trade-offs he is cited as mentioning here.  In a limited form it might be fine, but extending those comments a little going too far it could add a flaw to the tea, not just a tradeoff, but also some actual char effect, as we more often see in roasted Wuyi Yancha oolongs.  

You really should watch his video instead of accepting my summary, if those ideas are of interest.  He goes further with background and outcome descriptions, which I could cite more of word for word to avoid mischaracterizing that or getting it wrong, but it seems better to just cross reference it here.  It's not that long a video, and it's interesting.

That earlier post on oolong pu'er (in 2018)

This tied to a past favorite sheng version that I was talking about just then (in 2018; before I had the same degree of exposure to pu'er experience, only a few years into main exploration then):

A comment about a Moychay Nan Nuo sheng relates directly to that (here on Reddit, by Jay, if he's familiar, who sells tea here):

It'll be interesting to watch it age over several years but my gut instinct is that it will fade rather quickly in BKK. The fruity flavors often indicate oolong style pu that will fade out with age.

I had framed a similar idea in that original review more as a question.

I love the fruit in it, and that overall "bright" effect.  Often when I'm drinking sheng made within the past year I'm saying this might be better in a year or two, a little less edgy, but in this case I'm not so sure.  If that brightness were to decline, as it would to some extent, the balance might be just as positive, or more so, or the tea could've been best drank when very young like this.

All that is probably as good a subject theme intro as what I've written.  That tea did die a couple of years later; it shifted to include warmer and deeper tones, and lost the brightness and fruit, most of what was positive about it.  If my tea budget had been deeper I would've re-bought that, or the next year's version, to try aging what I didn't drink right away, but I didn't.  Kind of unrelated background, I bought that tea in a shop in St. Petersburg at New Years time in 2017-18.

so many amazing sights on that Russia trip, but this captures my favorite part

the more iconic scene version

I retried that 2017 Moychay Nan Nuo in 2020, documenting where it was then, and it was fine as a 3 year old version, but as I remember from trying it since it was going quiet.

Then there is the "awkward teen years" theme to account for.  At a tasting meetup over this past weekend we tried a nice Xiaguan version from 2018 that I really like, that is good, but is at an awkward stage in its transition process (reviewed here last year).  It's missing part of the more forward, higher end flavor range and punch, and the warm flavor tones haven't completely swapped in for that brighter floral scope yet.  I still kind of like it like that, even though it is a little out of balance.  It's sort of supposed to be; aging transition makes the most sense earlier on, when it's limited, and then later, when it's more complete, but not so much in the middle.  The timing of that varies; I've tried 10 year old tea that still seems pretty fresh, stored cool and dry, but 8 years of time in Bangkok contributes a lot more transition, just not in exactly the same form.

It seems like a good place for me to add the next source of evidence, something that really brings all this into clearer focus, related to a tea I've tried over a decade of aging.  I've tried Thai versions that were somewhat approachable early on that I've experienced changing over a few years, but the starting point was never the same (really bright, sweet, and fruity, with really limited bitterness and astringency), and I haven't tried any aged longer than this last 4 year example (nearly that; it will be 4 in 4 more months).  I've probably tried a good bit that was older that had already went dead; I mean examples of the entire sequence. 

I've tried at least a couple versions of somewhat older Wawee Tea Thai sheng, but if anything their versions run a little closer to standard Yunnan style, so that really doesn't work.  Of course the same applies to Hong Tai Chang versions, if that is familiar.

Other cited input in that Tea in the Ancient World "Oolong Pu'er" post

Returning to this post section theme, I re-read that 2018 post from this blog, and it's interesting (kind of new to me too, for being that far back).  It includes input from William, again of Farmerleaf, citing him as the Bannacha owner.  His 2023 thoughts on the subject represent what he now thinks, instead of from way back when, but I'll cite part of it to get a feel for the input range:

By controlling the Sha Qing time and the wok temperature, you can make redder or greener tea, and, as long as it's not extreme, I think there's a large span of well processed tea. Then, it depends on your personal taste, what kind of aroma you prefer, and which mountain you're dealing with. I like a greener processing on Mengku tea, because it brings out the high pitched fragrance of this area. Redder tea might be good to emphasize on the body, the mouth feeling.

The subject of tea community discussion history is interesting to me (which is something of a tangent here).  It's no secret that William re-branded to Farmerleaf as a new business when moving to Yunnan; this is from the Farmerleaf "about us" page:

Farmerleaf was created in 2016; it is the continuation of our efforts to provide high-quality teas worldwide.  We started selling tea online in 2011 with www.bannacha.com which is based in France and offers mostly Pu-erh tea. We are now based in Puer city, Yunnan, in which we have our office and storehouse. We have chosen this city because it is in the center of the Pu-erh tea production areas and the region produces a wide range of white, green and black teas, it is also a good place for storing Pu-erh tea.

So some of that blog post is about discussion of this theme on Tea Chat prior to 2016, written about in 2018.  This post reviews a 2016 Jing Mai Miyun version from Farmerleaf in March of 2017; maybe I knew how it all connected in 2018, that his business had either renamed or reset, or maybe that had got by me.

It's all an interesting read, to me, that old oolong pu'er post, but it's lots of mixed input from lots of sources.  People talk about primary flavors, body / feel, and aroma varying, probably using terminology in comparable but perhaps slightly different ways.  Shah82 passes on input in an extended citation, that doesn't narrow down to a short phrase that I can pass on about this subject here.  His accounts of his experiences were always interesting.  And probably still are; after checking in on that shaving forum he had discussed tea in, Badger and Blade, the last post by Shah8 (probably the same Shah) was last Monday, on page 401 of a sheng of the day thread.

Here is what he said about "oolong pu'er" in that post citation (of Tea Chat discussion):

I will say that taste itself is highly deceptive. It depends on your water, whether you let the dry leave sit in the bowl a week or two, or any number of things. It can change with the years. The classic way people buy bad tea is by preferentially buying "approachable" flavor or aroma puerh. Which is why you see so much problematically tinkered puerh that gives a oolongly fruity or floral taste (or more red and mellow malt). 

For me, the easy way to tell, again, is to see whether that aroma *endures*. Many of these teas also will betray badness by becoming hard to drink or pointless to drink by about brew 6-8. *Few* puerh, however, are done straight processing green. A little butteriness is sought after. Or a little hongcha, or some nice smokiness. That's alright, so long as most of the underlying qualities are still there to age.

To me the rest doesn't condense down to ideas that I can simplify and clarify here.  Everyone isn't saying exactly the same things.  Intuitively the tea would become less like normal sheng for including this processing variation, and less like green tea by extension of a sort of relationship between the two types, and more like black tea.  That doesn't really work as a summary.  Bitterness and astringency decrease, and mouthfeel and flavor profile changes, in the ways described here, and in varying ways mentioned in discussions.

One interesting recurring theme was that overheated sheng, which would be much closer to green tea than oolong, could get mixed in with that category.  The typical flavor range wouldn't be the same, but the tea would be aromatic and fresh, losing bitterness and astringency (although it would retain a different kind of edge), and it wouldn't age in the same way.  Put another way it would include a different balance of main compounds than conventional sheng.  It still might seem like "oolong pu'er" to most people, but really it would be more of a hybrid matching green tea range.

I tried a version of Thai sheng from Aran tea that reminded me of this theme, reviewed here in 2020.  They called that pu'er, related to the naming convention issue I covered earlier.  It might sound like I'm saying that they don't know how to make sheng properly, which I don't intend, but even read that way they could have adjusted processing approach in the past 6 years.  I just keep repeating that the character reminds me of green tea in that review, and guess that it might not age-transition well.  I liked the tea; something in between normal sheng and green style would just be heated slightly more in pan-frying, and it could still be pleasant, novel, and fresh, as that was.

Conclusions:

So do these teas ever retain great aging potential, in any form?  I'm not sure.  The 2022 Quang Tom is still pretty good, just shifting to warmer flavor tones, which seems fine, except that I really liked the brighter, fruitier versions earlier.

How did William and Farmerleaf's versions work out?  There's a little on that in that section, a website comment, but trying such a tea fills in a lot more.

To me it's an even more interesting question if moderate aging ever works really well.  I've tried plenty of Yunnan sheng that worked well aged in the 5 to 7 year range under much cooler and drier conditions than in Bangkok.  Here is an example:  a 2021 Tea Mania Gua Feng Zhai version.

I don't keep track of any but the most common village names, and I suppose that could be one, with it presented as from an in-demand Yiwu local area.  That tea is still bright, fresh, and sweet, after five years.  That probably wouldn't be true if it had spent those years in Bangkok, where it's always 25 - 38 C (mid-70s to 100 F), and almost always 65 to 80% relative humidity.  At the coolest and driest times maybe only 60% RH, but that comes and goes fast.

Of course I'm not claiming that the Yiwu / Yunnan tea version I just mentioned was "oolong pu'er," that it was extra oxidized, or overheated in a kill-green step (so more like green tea), or that it doesn't have great aging potential (although a good number of Yiwu origin versions that I've tried didn't).  It seems likely that there is a direct opposition between versions being approachable early on, bright and sweet, highly floral or fruity, and lacking significant bitterness and astringency, or full and structured mouthfeel.  That tea had good feel at 5 years along, as I remember.  This is a mention of that, in that post:

...Spice range definitely picks up, but it's broader than the sassafras was last round...  Then that's rounded out with root spice, more like ginseng, maybe just not quite as punchy and medicinal as ginseng (which is also subtle, in a different sense).  It has changed a lot over the last three rounds [it had shifted from early pear and dried mango range on to floral scope, and then warmer spice tones].  

Of course these flavors link well with the pronounced base mineral tone, which isn't dropping out.  Feel and aftertaste are significant, but those can be more intense in some other versions.  Overall balance is the nicest part, the way it all comes together each round... 

So none of this condenses down to a simple generality, beyond that one (approachable new sheng probably won't age transition as positively, at some point).  But that is only part of a broader story, that would vary depending on why the tea is like that, and that generality could be wrong in some cases.

I think the positive complexity that we expect from sheng, as it ages / fermentation transitions over 20 years or so, wouldn't be present, across many different cases.  That last review excerpt only implies how that goes in lots of cases, mentioning warmer spice range entering in, but that related to a more standard form sheng.  I haven't clearly established that "oolong pu'er" will always just go dead, even though to me that's implied quite a bit here, with sources openly stating that.  William--again of Farmerleaf--explicitly stated that he was curious about this himself, in that video, wondering how the last experiment before that one would transition later on.

If a somewhat oxidized "oolong pu'er" example didn't balance well at 5 to 7 years along it still might not be clear if it's going dead or just in between character forms.  I would expect that I could tell the difference, from the interim aspects form, but it might not be as clear as I'd expect.  

None of this relates to that 2018 Xiaguan example, surely; the starting point must have been very different.  I could re-try the Nan Nuo version I referenced at the beginning to add more related background, but for sure it was never oxidized to the degree these Vietnamese versions are.  These are "oolong pu'er" in two different senses; that Nan Nuo one related to it being approachable, for whatever reasons, and then these Quang Tom teas are intentionally quite oxidized.  

The "somewhat green" overheated during pan-frying pu'er theme is surely a third and different thing.  One would expect that to age even more poorly than the other two types (oxidized sheng, and sheng that just happens to be approachable early on, due to mixed other inputs).  But it would be interesting to try a couple of versions to know better.

Lincang and Fengqing (Yunnan) material Fu zhuan

 

I'm reviewing two exceptional Fu zhuan (hei cha) versions made from Yunnan Assamica material, from the Lincang and Fengqing areas.

This is an unusual theme, re-trying versions of tea I reviewed over a year ago (sent by Oriental Leaf for review; many thanks!).  I think vendors have sent the same samples more than once before; it could be hard for them to keep track, as I have to look up what I've tried in the past.  It should be interesting though, because I've been trying more Fu zhuan style hei cha recently, and quite a bit of Liu Bao over the last few months.  I should be more dialed in to that range.

Part of the point here is to compare the style to the other Fu hei cha processed versions I've been reviewing, with two of those based on white tea material.  This is from Assamica material typically processed into pu'er, from Yunnan.  I'll cite the vendor description to fill that part in and get right to it.

On Taoism - Jingyang Golden Flower Fu Brick Tea - 190g Cake ($38.50 for 190 gram cake)

This 190-gram round Golden Flower Fu tea cake is the miniature packaging version of another of our best-selling 350g cakes. Although it is small in size and a bit lighter in weight, the quality of the tea is the same as that of the popular product.

The classic Golden Flower Fu Brick Tea from On Taoism Tea Factory is a signature product of our tea house.

We offer two options:

One is black-wrapped, made from grade one dark tea from Lincang, Yunnan, with a more intense tea aroma.

The other is yellow-wrapped and made from a particular grade one dark tea from Fengqing, Yunnan, with a deeper tea aroma.

Both types of tea undergo post-fermentation and flowering processes in Jingyang. The buds in the red packaging are more tender, while those in the black packaging are more durable for brewing.

These high-quality compressed tea cakes were produced in 2020. They stand out for their ability to be stored long-term and transform, resulting in a more mellow taste.

The most distinctive feature is the high density of golden flowers in the compressed tea cake. These golden flowers, a beneficial microorganism, signify high-quality Fu Brick Tea. To emphasize this feature, workers split the tea cake in half before it left the factory, allowing you to see the dense golden flowers upon receiving the tea. As mentioned in a previous blog, the number of golden flowers is a crucial quality indicator of Fu Brick Tea; the more golden flowers, the better the quality.

This Fu Brick Tea, with its unique round cake shape, supports the traditional and natural growth of the golden flower fungus. Unlike the brick shape of traditional pressed tea, this tea undergoes a unique post-fermentation process using Jingyang water in Jingyang. This process, involving controlled exposure to moisture and air, enhances the tea's flavor and aroma. Thanks to the cotton paper packaging, the rich, high aroma can be appreciated even before brewing.

The Golden Flower Fu Brick Tea offers a unique taste and brewing experience. The tea leaves, known for their durability, can be brewed over 15 times. The taste combines fresh, sweet notes and a returning sweetness with a clear and bright soup base. The On Taoism Tea Factory maintains a clean workshop, ensuring the tea's high quality without washing.

These probably do change a little year to year, but maybe more in the way shou / shu pu'er transitions quite a bit over the first 3 or 4 years, and then changes are gradual and more limited after that.

That pricing is equivalent to a $72 357 gram pu'er cake.  For some Fu zhuan versions that would be on the high side, but these are exceptional, so that seems fair to me.  It would be hard to find other versions that are as distinctive, high in quality, and pleasant, and especially difficult to find anything better.  From there it's down to styles matching preference, which I hope gets described in the notes.

Review:

Lincang material, black label (left in all photos):  I didn't use a rinse; that's a judgement call.  I'm not sure where conventional wisdom stands for rinsing this particular tea.

Flavor is pleasant, rich and complex.  A dark rye sort of bread like aspect stands out.  It's not as heavy, not as dark, as it might be.  One part is lighter, even leaning towards citrusy.  In between complex tones could be judged in different ways.  One would have to mention spice to fill in a decent list, but it's complex enough spice that it's not simple to break down, along the line of incense related spice.

Fengqing material, yellow label (cream colored, really):  even heavier; this is closer to a dark rye, or on towards pumpernickel.  It's clean though; none of the earthy tones seem musty or off, also true of the other version.  An unusual mineral range stands out in this.  Usually mineral tones are light, like flint or limestone, or else quite warm, onto darker colored rocks range, but this isn't so easy to place.  A different spice tone stands out.  For sure that fungus, the golden flowers, is contributing a lot of that to both, so for people familiar with it I could just say these taste like two different variations of golden flowers.  A bit of beeswax sort of flavor comes through, and beyond that again spice tones are hard to place.  Maybe dried fruit plays a role; I'll try to separate a list better next time, but this will probably transition a little already, with a lot of the outer fungus rinsed off in that round.

In retrying both just before going on to the next round the lighter colored first version, in the black label, has a bit more of a distinctive heavy towards actual fungus range, like an old tree bark or log smells in the forest, and the darker colored second version is lighter and brighter.  Interesting.  I don't remember which of these I liked more the last time I tried them, but it will be interesting to see if that changed.

Lincang, black label #2:  even brewed very fast, under 10 seconds, intensity and complexity are great.  Mouthfeel is even full, with a bit more structure to it than last round.  This is giving off a tree bark sort of tone, in a good sense; it's clean, rich, and complex.  Bright tones stand out too, giving it a nice balance.  It's mostly in the range of spice, perhaps with a bit of dried citrus peel standing out.  This is probably the kind of tea that no two people would describe in the same way, so a text description may be of limited helpfulness.

Sweetness, rich feel (with a hint of dryness), and aftertaste really contribute to the experience.

Fengqing, cream colored label:  warmer tones are interesting, especially in contrast with the other being as light as it is.  That seems to have switched, that I just said the opposite in the first round.  I think that round was about the flavor of the fungus that had been rinsing off, and this one relates as much to brewed tea leaves, which are just getting started.  This tastes more like a dark bread, again.  There's a hint of the warm, rich earthiness present in shou / shu pu'er, that peat range, but not much.  It's light and clean in effect, and integrated with the rest in this.  It's more in the dark bread and spice range.  

To me, based only on limited past exploration, to be clear, you don't tend to see this much complexity, balance, and depth in hei cha of this type, Fu zhuan.  The intensity is unusually pronounced.  As I recall, although I didn't re-read an earlier review, these are made from high quality Yunnan material used to make pu'er, not something a bit less (distinctive, or lower in quality?).  I mean the material probably had more potential than hei cha material often does.  It's not made of sticks either, and probably not based on old leaf material as much.  It's just a different thing, across all of those dimensions, related to origin, plant type, and plucking / harvesting standard.

Lincang, #3:  I gave this a little longer, 15 seconds, although the intensity was fine before, maybe on the high side.  It would probably make more sense to use half as much of this tea, dropping the proportion, and brew it on towards 20 seconds.  That's just habit from maxing out proportion most of the time, not an earlier guess about an optimum.

There's a spice oriented range in this that I'm probably never going to describe well.  It reminds me of the Dune theme; this probably tastes a lot like their melange spice would.  It's full and sort of earthy, but also bright and complex.  It hints as lots of spice tone, and also lighter range like dried citrus peel.  Mineral is a part of it, but it's so integrated that it's hard to place, as light or dark, tasting like some particular rock.  Feel is full and rich, but it has an edge of dryness.  It's like how a black tea might include a touch of astringency giving it a little dry feel.  I suppose some might connect this feel and the flavor to that experience, and say that it tastes like the malt in Assam.  It does, a little.  That's probably what I was missing, to the extent it's not just a set of lots of flavors.

Fengqing:  a creaminess picks up; that's interesting.  It's in the form that creamy feel, sort of tied to tastes, emerges in stout beer, like Guinness.  Hints of rich dried fruit also pick up.  Where the other is spice-oriented with dryness this is now on to really tying back to the heavy, dark bread range, not unlike stout, with sweetness picking up.  Feel is rich and creamy, not dry at all.  It's missing that malt edge in the other, which could be a good or bad thing, depending on preference.  

From there one might see parallel with warm tones in fallen logs, with tree bark.  It's also leaning a little towards cacao, but I don't think many people would make that association, because it's not quite there.  It's the way that rich flavor range, soft feel, and complexity come across that implies something like it.  

At this point I like the cream colored label version better (later I'll swap in tea plant material origin locations for main descriptions).  That complexity, spice, and dryness in the first works, it balances in a positive way, but this second version is really unique.

Lincang, #4:  not so different than last round, so I'll mostly skip repeating it all.  Maybe a bit of extra sweetness picks up, an extra dried fruit oriented flavor that's hard to place, partly related to dried citrus peel, but there is more to it.  As to form of citrus I'd say it's red grapefruit.  An Assam drinker might really love this.  I mean someone drinking really good orthodox, high quality Assam, not the ground up stuff that requires milk and sugar.  It includes some of the same malt and fruit, plus an extra dimension or two.  Astringency is very limited, to just a bit of dry edge, but to me that's a good thing.  

Fengqing:  a different kind of spice range enters in, a root spice effect, along the line of sassafras, just not exactly that.  Warm tones stand out all the more, although I guess that was also true in a different sense in the last couple of rounds.  It's creamy in a slightly different way, leaning towards root beer, instead of stout (actual dark beer).  

This is a really unique tea experience.  Both are, but it seems like parts of the other version's character turn up in other places more, in other types.  You just don't end up drinking teas that land right in between dark bread and root beer for flavor range, or maybe really spanning both, including them.  If that somehow didn't make sense together, if it didn't integrate, this could be really off-putting, but it ties together beautifully.  I'd be surprised if I didn't like this tea version more last time.

Of course the teas kept brewing, without changing character that much over the next few rounds, eventually fading later.

Conclusions:

I had reviewed these earlier here; one of the points of this review is to compare notes.  I brewed them Western style, which isn't typical for me for most tea types.  It's not a bad call, related to this style of tea, but you experience more distinct flavor aspects when you Gong Fu brew them.  It also helps with dialing in infusion strength.  

It makes it hard to compare impressions, because they were made differently, and expressed character differently as a result.  The general impressions match, but this second review adds a lot more detail.  This tea is good enough that you probably should Gong Fu brew it; you see an extra dimension or two that way, and it's worth it.  Or if you don't feel like going through that some of the time results are fine the other way, unlike brewing a lot of range of sheng pu'er, which typicall just doesn't really work out well.

Drilling down to finer flavor aspects more, and feel character, it was interesting how one part of the Lincang range reminded me of good orthodox Assam experience, the slightly drier feel, and touch of malt.  You might only associate the flavor with malt if you could make that connection, since it's natural to be "looking for" other earth, spice, and dried fruit range instead.  

The Fengqing expressed more spice range in the Gong Fu brewing based review, like sassafras, coming out more after the first couple of infusions.  Brewed Western style those same generalities turned up, but in far less specific form.  Someone might have even interpreted it as leaning towards cacao, when I saw it as closer to root beer in the last round.  If it sounds like it's closer to shou / shu pu'er I would say that kind of partly works, but it's not related to peat flavor, which is pretty common in shou.

Compared to the other Fu zhuan versions made from white teas these are just different.  Those might have been a little lighter in character, possibly slightly sweeter, maybe with different pronounced fruit tones.  There was a little fruit range in these too though, and earthiness was present but not in a way that dominated the character, nothing unusual, that necessarily would be regarded as a flaw, or negative input.

I should be able to say which matched my preference most, even though that alone can be tricky comparing over weeks of time, and it doesn't necessarily mean anything to anyone else.  Often when you try a tea a few times your impression changes, and you relate to it differently.  That last Fu zhuan tea was pretty good; I can't say that I like either of these more.  It had a clean, bright, fruit intensive range, with lots of depth, that all balanced well.  But there is something really interesting and appealing about the Fengqing version, the way that particular spice range and varied depth come across.  The other is good too, and for a tea to have with food it might be better, but in terms of this impression I liked the Fengqing version more than the Lincang.