Wawee Tea 2026 sheng (Thai pu'er-style tea)

 

I'm reviewing a tea version that's an old favorite, Thai sheng from Wawee Tea.  It's what Thai sheng should be:  high in quality level, made from great material, distinctive, pleasant in flavor, and intense.  There probably isn't much tea coming out of Thailand like this, and essentially no other versions I'd probably like more (although Aphiwat's is really nice too).  

I love the style.  Others might or might not; it would just depend on preference.

There's not a website post to cite, but I can mention their Facebook page post about it, from their FB page:

The long dry spell from winter to April has resulted in this year's tea having a richer, more fragrant flavor.

The tea wrapping paper features tribal patterns from the villagers of Wawei, who are the main workforce helping us harvest the tea leaves.

Raw Pu-erh Tea (生普洱), Spring Tea Season 2026

100% from large-tree tea (古樹茶)

200 gram compressed cake

990 THB per cake, 5 cakes in a bamboo bundle 4,950 THB

It seems like I should be gatekeeping this.  They don't sell overseas anyway, per my understanding, so I guess mentioning this is for Thais, or people who live "here" (since I'm in Bangkok again now).

Them selling that for around $30 for a 200 gram cake is an example of local Thai pricing; in a Western facing outlet it would be more.  I just bought pretty good Vietnamese tea for around double that from Viet Sun, and this tea holds its own against that.  Maybe in terms of my preference I like it a little more; it is a personal favorite.  

At least my blog is read by a lot more AI bots than humans; that will help reduce the potential exposure impact.  Maybe I won't share links to this as much to keep going in that direction.

Review:

First infusion:  a little strong, because I gave this over 30 seconds to get it started, so I'm not writing about how it will really open up next round.  It's good.  There's plenty of fruit flavor, some vegetal range, and a good bit of astringency structure, but of the right type.  Bitterness stands out.  This is just how it should start.  It'll work better to do a flavor list and say more about the rest next round, in a typical faster infusion.

Make no mistake though, you can tell this is really nice right away.  Intensity is right, sweetness is great, and flavor range is just what you would hope for.  You don't find teas like this by accident.  Years of looking in the right kind of places have to come together, after looking in the wrong kinds of places.  You can frame that as karma if you like, that spiritual forces are looking out for you.  It doesn't change much if you do.

Second infusion:  a 5 second infusion brews just as strong; that's how this should be.  Intensity stands out most.  At times you run across older plant source material that's more subtle, but with great depth, that's really approachable, but that lasts for lots of infusions, and changes in positive ways.  This isn't that.  It's intense from the start.  Fruit stands out, it's just hard to say which.  It's along the line of lychee or mango, or it could be a sweet form of pineapple.  

Vegetal flavor is there, a green wood sort of range, or maybe that could map to something else, like bitter melon.  I've been eating a lot of bitter melon, from our garden in Honolulu, and you mostly taste bitterness from that.  This is bitter, but to me the type and level is great.

Depth, intensity, balance, aftertaste expression; it's all great.  To be clear this is at least partly because I already love their style of tea.  I've drank at least a couple of cakes of this, and it's fantastic getting back to it.  I like it young too, like this, not necessarily transitioned by age, but this would be really good over the next few years, as it keeps changing.  

If I tasted the same green wood / vegetal input in a different context I wouldn't like it.  But to me it integrates perfectly with the rest, and adds to a very intense overall experience, that is just how it should be.  I've been drinking some of Aphiwat's tea as 2 or 3 year old versions, ones I've had around, and it's much approachable after the transition, but I don't like it as much.  It's down to personal preference.  

I finished this round a couple of minutes ago and the sweetness really lingers along my tongue, that had transitioned from bitterness; it's partly about that.  You can emphasize this kind of experience by drinking water between rounds; it comes across as very sweet.  But it's also nice to let the experience build up in your sense of taste, getting stronger and stronger.

Third infusion:  I can't really unpack that fruit input more; it's still either lychee or mango, but seemingly a mix of a lot of related tropical fruit input.  Warmth seems to pick up a little.  Sweetness and intensity are still great, of course.  This really hits your palate hard, in a good way.  Only a sheng drinker would love this bitterness level as I do.  Some sheng is even more bitter, but this is pronounced.

To me this is the kind of tea you can have every day for as long as you want, for weeks.  The experience is so positive that it doesn't get old.  I suppose that has more to do with a status of being a favorite than how general character themes play out.  

A good black tea is much more approachable, and in some sense it would make more sense with food.  I'll very often have this kind of tea with food, intense young Thai sheng, along the line of what I ate today, scrambled eggs with spinach and a Thai vegetable plant leaf, and a mix of orange, banana, and papaya.  More often I'll add a starch input, a croissant or some other pastry, but lately I've been letting that drop.  Yogurt with the fruit is also nice, and that protects your stomach.  I feel ok without having included it, just now.

Fourth infusion:  warm tones might pick up further, and this might be even more intense.  I walked around looking for the cat between infusions, noticing that the aftertaste never really drops out, it stays with you.  

Fifth infusion:  this isn't changing much, and certainly isn't fading.  Feel might be picking up some extra richness, and the fruit has transitioned to a slightly different complex fruit range.  It's a little towards that juicyfruit gum flavor.  It would make sense for a natural interpretation to include citrus, a bright version of it, in between lemon and tangerine.  Or maybe just to see it as tangerine.  Intensity is still nice, but that depends on someone loving bitterness--at this level--and intensity.

they were running free all morning, but she was messing with them a little too

they're all so cute, but that darkened face look is really something

Sixth infusion:  I haven't mentioned an inconsistency in the coloration of the leaves.  Parts were probably left exposed to wither longer, or may have been crushed while being picked, leading to faster oxidation.  Or inconsistent heating could roast some a little.  The two effects would be different, and if both occurred then complexity would enter in, which I guess someone could interpret as coming at a cost.  But the complexity of this tea is a strength, as I see it.  Intensity definitely also is; if those somewhat atypical inputs changed character they certainly didn't limit how intense the experience is.  They might even give it a nice balance.

It could have more warm range than it ordinarily should, for at this age.  But that's a good thing; it all matches and integrates well.  It's definitely not missing brighter range, or sweetness.  I drank a cake that was a lot like this pretty fast 2 or 3 years ago, from them, loving it so much that half my tea drinking rotation was that version.

Seventh infusion:  this is finally losing a little intensity, but that really only brings it into a more normal range.  I'm still brewing it really fast, around 5 seconds.  I've pushed the infusion proportion, which is normal for me, maybe at 8 grams for a 100 ml gaiwan, or it could even be 9.

Warmth picks up.  That has been a gradual trend for the past 4 or 5 infusions.  Feel structure is really nice, less sharp and edgy than initially, but it was never really negative.  Now it's richer, more full, but still intense.  

Fruit is pretty heavy on citrus.  I'm surely missing a lot of potential association for the flavors; this is complex.  Mineral effect probably keeps shifting.  That's probably a lot of what is causing me to perceive that the tone as warming.  It was probably bright and lighter mineral range earlier on, and now it's on to warmer tones, not completely unlike tasting a copper penny.  Probably an interpretation of the main range as including floral tone is reasonable, maybe jasmine.

Eighth infusion:  I let this go for over 15 seconds to try it stronger, but I think I know how that will work out.  It's just a little more intense, and back to potentially challenging.  Astringency pairs with a mineral tone in a way that's a bit much, but the effect is still quite pleasant.  It's this kind of intensity that differentiates pu'er from other tea types.  You can't brew other types to draw it out at this level even if you wanted to, and with young sheng you are often brewing around it, using different form to limit it.  It's delicious, and the overall experience is great.

This is exactly how I hoped this tea would be.  It's nice when it works out like that.  In some cases teas can be even better than you hoped, more novel, or positive in a different way, but I wouldn't want this to be different in any way.

Ninth infusion:  some of this tea seems to be exhibiting the "brewed out" green wood bitterness and astringency aspect, but it seems like different leaves that are processed differently might be transitioning and reacting differently.  It's still quite good, but that will probably keep picking up, and it will be less pleasant after the next couple of rounds.  It has been a nice infusion cycle though.

I did drink this tea again the next day, the day I'm editing this.  It was nice not giving any thought to a flavor list breakdown, or other aspects, and just enjoying it.

Viet Sun Y Ty sun dried black tea (Dian Hong style)

 

I'm reviewing a black tea version from that last Viet Sun order.  I love Vietnamese, Thai, and Laos black teas, that are often more or less made in the Yunnan / Dian Hong style.  It's the type that I've bought the largest quantity of in single orders, buying more than a kg of a Thai and Vietnamese version over the last few years (each, per only one large order of each).  

It's great as an everyday tea, something to have with breakfast.  It probably doesn't work rolling together everything made in a few countries as all one thing, so that generality really requires a bit of interpretation, that I won't waste words on here.  Some teas are like that.  Not really better than above average Dian Hong versions, but along the same line.

It could sound like I'm exaggerating how much I love different teas in reviews, given how my impression is often consistently positive.  I guess those Thai and Laos sheng from Rishi didn't work out like that; they were good, but with significant limitations.  This black tea was favorable but also not completely exceptional.  I think it might have aging potential, which tends to be expressed over a couple of years, so it wouldn't take the 20 to 25 year cycle that sheng pu'er does to change.  It's all covered in the review notes.  This is the vendor description:

Y Tý Sun Dried Black Spring 2026  ($21 for 100 grams; a good price, but still kind of standard)

A really nice black tea made in the sun dried style from one of our favorite tea areas, Y Tý.

Made from old and ancient trees in the Dao village, this tea brews up into a rich copper red soup. Floral, fruity, sweet and layered with a light bitterness, rich mouthfeel and long finish.

Season: April 2026

Picking Standard: 1 bud, 2-3 leaves

Region: Y Tý, Lào Cai

Elevation: 1300-1800m

It's interesting seeing 2025 versions still selling on their site.  It goes without saying but you can't really compare a 2025 or 2024 version of the same tea (apparently from the same origin and producer), and expect aging input to be the only difference.  Tea versions vary year to year, across pretty much all types and producers.  Weather is just too much of an input, and other factors would come into play.  But whatever differences you do experience could be interesting, and trying to see what you make of it could be pleasant.

Review:

First infusion:  I brewed this a little long to get it going, something like 30 seconds.  Taste is great.  Sweetness is nice, and there is plenty of flavor complexity to unpack.  Interpretations would vary, a lot, but to me it tastes like fruit (a little like dried dark cherry), with some earthier tree bark range, and a sun-dried tomato savory input.  There's also just about as much cacao as all of that.  

There's a standard black tea flavor range that isn't always a main input in Yunnan style black teas, a sort of "tastes like tea" flavor, which I guess is actually complex and hard to describe.  This includes that.  It's not so far from well-cured leather range, like a bomber jacket might smell, but of course it's not exactly that.  Sweetness is good but this could be sweeter.  Feel is fine, but nothing unusual.

Second infusion:  a woody sort of input picks up.  This isn't exactly a fruit heavy black tea version, which can come up with this style range.  It's not unusual for versions like this, that are backed off in oxidation level, to pick up sweetness, depth, and even intensity over the course of a couple of years.  This is relatively fully oxidized, or rather that input seems to be mixed, from leaf color, and some of it is.  It should still have good aging potential.  It's just a guess, just my own take, but I think there's no reason to ever hold onto teas like this for more than 3 or 4 years, that it doesn't keep changing and improving.  It's fine now though.

I brewed this round on the light side, to see what that changed, and it changes things, which flavor aspects come across, and the feel.  I'll try it brewed longer next round, for over 20 seconds.

I'm trying this on the morning after a heavy rain, the day after a kind of rough three day audit (my work).  I didn't even do the audit, or serve as a main subject, I was in a management oversight sort of role.  It was still a lot, still tiring.  It has been rough getting back to commuting, working onsite, and that location added an extra distance beyond our offices.  That site was pretty fantastic, but I don't want to add too much about work themes here, so I'll not say why.

Third infusion:  limited sweetness would be a limitation for this tea, for many, expecting standard Dian Hong style.  But it's good.  It comes across a little closer to good orthodox Assam than SE Asian black tea versions usually do.  Maybe there is a touch of malt in this, but I don't mean mostly because of that.  That taste like a standard black tea range is part of it, and this limited sweetness level.  Feel is standard, not overly rich, or dry, but a conventional, structured, slightly dry black tea feel matches really good Assam.

It's odd how this is one of the first versions of SE Asian black tea that malt works for.  You feel that structure on your tongue as well, what you would expect to pair with the malt, leather, and leaning towards wood flavor aspects.  Even sweetness can pick up sometimes when aging less oxidized black teas, so this might be a good bit different in even one year.  Not much would probably still be around; I bought 100 grams of it, I think.  

I'm still working with a limited tea budget, but as I'll be mentioning that still related to buying tea three times already this year (the Vietnamese Quang Tom versions, the Thai and Laos sheng cakes from Rishi, and now these).  More Thai sheng is on the way, and Thai black tea, and a couple of inexpensive cakes from Chen Sheng Hao.  Someone mentioned one of their lower cost cakes being good, and it was too tempting to pass up.  They're better known for higher end, higher quality blends, and for Lao Ban Zhang.  I tried a sampler set from them a couple of years ago, covering more of that; it was good.

Fourth infusion:  richness picks up.  The flavor range doesn't shift enough to add a new list.  It's nice so much complexity is there, the cacao, touch of vague fruit, malt, wood, etc.  A sweeter flavor input and more fruit or cacao would really make this stand out, or more depth in a sense that's hard to describe.  For Dian Hong often that covers a range like roasted sweet potato or yam.  If someone was looking for that this would seem more like yam.  Interpretations would vary.

The dryness is interesting, since it comes across as a feel structure, not a flaw.  This would be fantastic tea to have with breakfast.  In a way that's an insult, like saying a version would be good with milk, or a Scotch whiskey would be good with coke, but of course that's how I'm drinking most of the tea I ever drink.  Five days a week I wouldn't have time for extended morning or afternoon sessions, now that I work during the day again.  It was really nice working from 4 to midnight back in Hawaii; it sort of stretched out the day.  But any work schedule works better without two or more hours going towards commuting.

Fifth infusion:  dried fruit might be picking up a little; that's nice.  There is a nice depth to this tea, it's just not in exactly the form I expected.  In Dian Hong deeper tones can tie to mineral, or fruit or cacao range, or to roasted yam or sweet potato aspects.  Here that malt and mineral seems to connect with what comes across as an underlying taste context.  With just a little more sweetness it would all connect together better.  Someone really could add a little sugar, but I wouldn't.  

For someone who loves good orthodox Assam this might really ring a bell.  It's sort of in between that range and normal Dian Hong.  Astringency is limited, of course, the dryness or edgy feel structure.  Intensity is good but still moderate.  Complexity is fine but the aspects could balance together differently.  I suspect a year or two of aging will resolve a lot of that, and it will be much improved.  For a lot of people it could seem off-putting or problematic to buy a tea to drink in a year or two, but for sheng drinkers maybe it's already familiar ground.  

I wouldn't buy the Y Ty moacha I just reviewed to hold onto though; it's so good now that drinking straight through it would make a lot of sense.  I have just a little of a version from two years ago, from one of these villages; maybe I'll do a comparison.  I think this year's teas were a little better than then though, so maybe it's not a completely fair comparison. 

Sixth infusion:  this is a good tea for drinking a full cycle of rounds, apparently.  It's the most positive it has been, as the last round also was, and I'm not stretching infusion times by that much to keep up intensity.  A warm cacao oriented note picks up, and depth improves.  In a lot of teas a certain mineral flavor range or astringency will come forward a lot more in late rounds, something that brews out more in longer steeps, when a lot of the other positive range has passed through, and has already been extracted.  This doesn't pick up astringency, or strong mineral range, at all.  But then I'm not stretching the time yet either, although next round will be when that applies, and it will need 45 seconds or so instead of around 30 to keep up intensity.

Aftertaste trails on a little more; that's one part of what I mean by the experience of depth.  The other relates to how the warm mineral tones and the flavor come across, as spanning a lot of range.

All in all a pretty good tea.  At this point it feels atypical not commenting that it's absolutely fantastic, as with the other Y Ty sheng versions I just reviewed.  Maybe I expected that, for this to be amazing.  It's pretty good, as Dian Hong style versions go, but only a bit above average, at least at this stage.  

For Dian Hong drinkers that's already a pretty good range to fall in.  For orthodox Assam drinkers this might be much better, a real revelation, since it falls between norms for those two types.  It's missing the heavier malt expression, so depending on expectations maybe that could seem like a big gap instead.  In a year or two this might be much better; it will be interesting to see.

Viet Sun Y Ty Dao and H'Mong Village 2026 Vietnamese sheng

 

I'm reviewing the first of a small order of Viet Sun teas, mostly to try this year's sheng versions, and a couple of black teas.  They are a favorite tea source, with good Vietnamese versions a favorite tea category, especially related to sheng (pu'er-style teas).

I've mentioned Viet Sun a bit in recent posts, in one talking about how a bias towards favorite vendors might factor in.  In another interview post Steve of Viet Sun and Seth (a Vietnamese tea researcher) a lot of related background is discussed, about changes in tea styles and production inputs there.

Back to the topic at hand, these teas seemed really good.  I've liked Viet Sun's sheng versions in the past, but everything came together well for both (quality levels seemed unusually high), and the flavor profile of one really matched my own preferences.  I'm not sure why they seemed so exceptional.  Favorable weather, good material to begin with, favorable processing skill development?

Here are the vendor site listings (edited down slightly; not cited in their entirety):

Y Tý Dao Village Maocha Spring 2026 ($33 for 100 grams)

Ancient tree maocha from Y Tý.

Y Tý is a beautiful tea area in Lào Cai province right on the border with China. There are two villages that have old tea trees here, one is inhabited by H’Mông people and the other Dao.

This tea is from the Dao village. Although only a couple kilometers apart, this area has more rocky soil and more windy, dry days than the H’Mông village. The leaves are also brighter green than the trees in the other area. Tea trees in Y Tý have especially beautiful leaves.

This year our friend did some exploring and found a couple more ancient tea tree gardens growing nearby the gardens where our tea was from last year. These gardens are quite high in elevation for Assamica trees and this tea shows off it's "alpine" character.

This tea brews up slowly into a rich golden brew. Heavily sweet with notes of cane sugar and meadow flowers with a light herbal character. Strong mineral note with low bitterness and astringency. Lasting huigan and strong relaxing qi.

Great longevity, set aside an hour if possible to fully enjoy this one.

Season: April 2026

Picking Standard: 1 bud, 2-3 leaves

Region: Y Tý, Lào Cai

Elevation: 1700-1800m

Y Tý H'Mông Village Maocha Spring 2026  ($33 for 100 grams)

This tea is from the H’Mông village. Although only a couple kilometers apart, this area has more clay rich soil and more humid days than the Dao village. The leaves are also darker than the trees in the other area. Tea trees in Y Tý have especially big and beautiful leaves.

This tea brews up into a rich dark golden brew. I get cane sugar, herbs, deep forest and floral/ fruity notes. This tea also features a pleasant minerality with heavy sweetness, low-medium bitterness and astringency. Deep and layered huigan and strong relaxing qi.

Of course my interpretation of individual flavors varies some; that's always the case.  I identified a good bit of fruit in the first tea, and less (but some) in the second, the opposite of these descriptions.  That's how flavor descriptions go; it's not exactly completely subjective, but no two interpretations would tend to be identical.

Those prices (which are the same) relate to a standard 357 gram cake costing $118.  That's a bit, but then this is exceptional tea, and the market pricing for it at the producer level could be higher than for more average versions.  

I looked up what it sold for in the past, in 2024, and it was $31 for 100 grams then, so recent inflation or demand shift isn't a main cause for that high-medium pricing range.  I bought two different year's cakes of a Son La version, and checked that it sold for 21 cents a gram in 2023, sold then as a 370 gram cake (so it would've been $78).  I really liked that tea (it's essentially all gone now), but in a side by side tasting it would stand out that these were / are both better.  But then the extra edginess, astringency, and bitterness in that tea wasn't entirely negative, to me, not really relating to flaws, instead just style difference.

Review:

Dao:  just wonderful!  Even though it's barely started infusing yet.  Bright, sweet floral notes stand out, but that could as easily transition to fruit, or may already be both.  Tasting it again it's both.  Light and sweet floral range (maybe orchids?) is joined by a good bit of sweet fruit (pretty close to fresh lychee).  It's so good.

H'Mong:  more subtle, at this stage, but it has great character, for what is showing through.  It has a good bit of depth for being so light, not really fully wetted yet.  Sweetness is good, and more vague floral or fruit range is there, just not strong enough to work well as a list yet.  A touch of vegetable flavor integrates well, along the line of sugar snap peas.  It will be interesting seeing how it all changes next round.

Dao #2:  maybe I'm out of practice breaking down flavor aspects.  This is just great, but it still tastes mostly floral and fruity to me.  I suppose lychee does stand out.  That is my overall favorite fruit too; fresh versions can be just amazing.  There are different types, but even the ones that taste more sweet than anything else are still great.  Feel is satisfying for this, with a little thickness, giving a sensation of your mouth watering.  It's not really conventional sheng astringency, in terms of being rough or challenging.  A light mineral base grounds it all more than you notice at first.  The sweetness, and its role, does stand out.  Aftertaste is nice, not a long as that can be, but quite significant.

H'Mong:  this is pleasant too.  There's a brightness to these that's hard to describe, an edge that really fresh but fully ripe fruit possesses.  They really pop.  It's a shame that more people don't experience fresh sheng like this more, since it comes up online that it all always needs aging.  This is so far removed from rough factory sheng character, it's the difference between a pretty good tin of English Breakfast tea and a really good whole leaf, second flush Darjeeling version.  It's a different kind of thing.  

This is mostly floral, with that faint edge of vegetal range filling in depth.  If that was closer to straight grass it would seem like a flaw, but as it's similar to fresh sugar snap pea it's nice.  Feel might be a little thicker in this, with good sweetness and aftertaste carry-over.  To me the other version really shines, because I love that prominent lychee flavor, but both are quite nice.

I could mention that it's my first time having tea back in Bangkok, beyond a rushed and groggy experience of a more standard version yesterday.  It's my first time preparing it outside; yesterday I woke up too late, and the heat was kicking in.  The kids and I were up at 4:30 AM today, related to going to bed between 8:30 and 9:30 (them a little later).  So we hung out a little with cats, then got on with the day, which for them relates to playing online.  

It's 28 C / 82 F and 78% humidity out here, at 7:20 AM.  Yesterday we walked around to do some errands, including picking up the car, and it was much hotter.  Maybe doing walking errands helped Keo and I acclimate, or maybe we just got scorched on the way to restock food and have a car again.

Dao #3:   warmth and depth picks up in this.  I let it brew longer, in part related to typing here.  It works well stronger.  Bitterness is present, but it's very limited, and feel is smooth and full.  It's probably partly related to settling back into my life here, appreciating everything all the more, but this is one of the more positive tea experiences I've had in ages (this version, I mean).  It just works; it all balances.  The freshness, sweetness, feel, and aftertaste all really come together.  That fresh lychee flavor might be evolving more towards pear.  I'll probably have to get a cake of this.

H'Mong village:  this is a really solid tea too, and lots of what I've described in the other carries over.  The way I'm describing it might make it sound like it's like the other but with some cooked vegetable, but it's not like that.  Technically maybe a little, but the freshness is generally similar.  The overall balance is also good, and the intensity, sweetness, and complexity are nice.  The flavor is shifting a little towards apple or pear; that change might be more complete in another round or two.

I drank a little water between this and the next round and that sweetness really came out.  Usually that happens when a tea is bitter, sweet, and intense, but these might be expressing more intensity than it seems.  Maybe I'm judging them more positively for really feeling this tasting experience, but my current take is that they're both really special.

Dao #4:  this shifted more to pear flavor range.  Mineral range is stronger, heavier, and slightly warmer.  Sweetness is still good, and an emergent impression of freshness still comes across well.  Intensity is great, and it's all the better for a full feel pairing perfectly with it, and aftertaste expression continuing it.

As far as considering how this might age I'd just drink it right now, a lot of it, and then if someone has enough to do that and keep some it'll probably transition nicely for 2 or 3 more years, and then not be as good again (to me, related to my expectations and preferences).  But I could drink right through a half a kilogram of this, I think, more the way I typically only drink the same black tea over and over.  I went through a couple of cakes of my previous favorite from Viet Sun, but that took awhile.

H'Mong:  mineral really takes this over too, but it's not getting that much warmer and deeper, sticking more to the limestone mineral range.  That integrates really well with less distinct floral and fruit range (all harder for me to place in this version).  Intensity is good, and the way feel pairs with the experience is really nice.  These are probably pretty good teas, as a quality level scale goes.  It's great the way they combine the freshness, sweetness, and intensity of a young sheng without the harsher edges that can go along with that, out of balance bitterness and astringency.  The material not being broken at all helps with that; it's completely whole leaf.  But the quality is good beyond that.

So is this genuine old plant, wild or natural growth origin tea, is that what's going on?  Maybe; probably.  Some elevation and favorable growing conditions are probably also positive inputs, and the plant type is probably positive, and processing inputs.  It doesn't matter though.  In the end it's really nice, and trying to sort out why a tea is really good is much more pleasant than trying to figure out why limitations entered in.

Dao #5:  this might be enough for notes, and 10 cups is a good bit.  Mosquitos figured out where I am, and the cats have had enough time to play and smell everything.

This is still so nice, but in the same ways I've been describing, so there's no need to keep on with that.  The mineral picks up a dry edge, or it seems that feel and flavor transition go together, but otherwise it's the same.  On the next round (#6) mineral really picks up, and fruit flavor and sweetness have generally faded, but it's still quite pleasant.

H'Mong:  more of the same as well.  It might have a little more mineral base, depth, and feel structure than the other, so it's definitely not inferior, just different.  That flavor range in the other really works well for me though; I do like it better.  And it has good freshness, intensity, balance, and so on.  The snap pea aspect has long since faded, but I'm not having much luck with a flavor list for this.

On the next round it's still holding a great balance, maybe with even more fullness of range than the other, more depth and intensity.  I'll probably still let these brew a little longer, more than the nearly 30 seconds I've been using (proportion is backed off my standard 8 grams, maybe only 6), to try them stronger.  But intensity was already good this round (#6; I combined notes for both), so it's just to see what changes.

Dao #7:  mineral dominates the experience brewed a little stronger, this late into the infusion count.  Maxing out proportion and using shorter rounds would delay that by a couple of infusions.  It's still quite pleasant though, not really thinning in character much yet, or expressing that green wood flavor and astringency sheng tends to when it's pretty much done.  But they are fading.

H'Mong #7:  still quite pleasant, still not done, but a little diminished in range.  Most sheng versions never express the brightness, freshness, positive floral and fruit range, and sweetness these did in the first half dozen rounds, so they'd never be better than this.  Much higher bitterness level would be typical; I guess someone could see that as a limitation, even though I don't.

How Did You Develop Your Sense of Tea Flavors and Aromas?

combined tasting can highlight subtle differences, including flavor aspects

It's not uncommon for Reddit discussions to raise interesting starting points on tea themes, as in this case, considering how you can develop a sense of tea flavors.  That's not the most natural way to frame that set of ideas, related to how I see it, but it works, since it's functionally equivalent.  That post is here.

I guess it's not really a secret how my IRL status links to that Reddit profile, so this is what I commented (left in the original cut and paste formatting, which is extra janky, but that also works):

 

It's an interesting prior question if analytically identifying distinct flavors enhances the tea drinking experience, or if it's irrelevant instead. 

Moving on to the actual question, it just takes practice. Over a long period of time with lots of exposure, and focus on this theme, it will become easier to identify both general ranges of flavors and distinct flavor inputs. One tool that can help with this is a flavor wheel. It won't help initially, because you need the developed skill to go with it, but separating flavors into ranges does work better, and it helps having an idea of what you might be experiencing. It's this kind of thing (from here):

Note that some flavor you pick up with your tongue, often referred to as tastes (although these terms are used loosely in common usage): salt, sweetness, bitterness, sourness, umami (savory range). These others are sensed by your rear nasal passages, so they tend to be referred to as aromas.

This subject just keeps going. Sweetness isn't really identified by the typical sensation of carbohydrate range, of sugars, so you are really sensing other taste range that you associate with that same experience, or that mimic it (two different things). Astringency is a mouthfeel aspect, that is completely separate from this, but that is often confused with the experience of bitterness, or that could be adjacent to it. Sometimes a lack of one aspect range can seem to affect how you experience others, or an excess of one could have a different but comparable effect.

In practice there will always be flavors you just aren't familiar with, like those of a broad range of flowers (for many), or for obscure spices (eg. identifying the different incense spices). Then beyond that there is a broad range of what you've already experience that's going to be hard to associate, even though in a loose sense the flavor is familiar. Malt works as an example. Most of us have tried Ovaltine, or malted milk shakes, but it can be tricky identifying that flavor as what you are experience. Malty flavor in Assam black tea is related but it's something else, so we can use flavor concepts to cover a range of related tastes. Flavors perceived as negative can come across differently, or a base flavor range context including less pleasant flavors can steer you to noticing certain range (eg. even limited sourness might steer you to identifying musty or mineral flavors, while perceived sweetness might cause you to "look for" fruit or other positive range).

In actual practice there are a few things you can do. You can eat before tasting tea, but it should be neutral food, and you should eat it an hour or so before the tea. You can then still eat during tea tasting, but it should be even more neutral food, maybe something like nuts, a cracker, or croissant, to avoid adjusting sense of taste. It would be better to never smoke, and to avoid other harsh food or other flavor experience, all of the time. You can use water to "cleanse" your palate between tasting rounds, or even infusions of the same tea. Some flavor experience can build up in a positive way, or I suppose a negative way, but it can help resetting taste to get a clearer image of it. It's best to give yourself a lot of time and mental space. It takes a lot longer than it seems that it might. Sure, you can gulp a few swallows of a mug of tea and sense some flavors, but it helps to sip and slurp over an extended time, to really pause to consider what the experience is, what the constituent parts are.

Other inputs can matter more than it seems that they would. If there's potpurri in the room that's not going to help at all. Even a very dry environment can throw off the experience. People's sensations vary over time, maybe with different times of the day, or can vary from day to day. One part of the ongoing shift in form of perception is about noticing how all of that works for you.

That's a lot of it.  Ordinarily I'd unpack that first part more, whether or not an analytical approach that isolates and defines flavor aspects seems helpful, but leaving it open doesn't skip much.  People would see that differently, and I have mixed feelings about it myself.  I don't think that much gets lost, not moving on to a more analytical interpretation, and to the extent that kind of review helps it might make more difference beyond flavor range.  

It seems that as you try to do more with comparing teas you end up isolating aspects more and more, but the focus on the flavor list interpretation may not be as helpful or functional as identifying other ranges of strengths and weakness.  Typical positive range includes intensity, complexity, body / feel, aftertaste expression, refinement (an especially vague emergent and higher level range), sweetness level, balance, and so on.  

Negative aspects, flaws, or other limitations can take on lots of forms.  Sourness is a good example of what people typically hope not to experience, although there are exceptions, some fermented teas that are supposed to include a little (like a Japanese fermented goishi cha).  Some mineral flavor range can be especially positive, and other scope quite unpleasant.  A bit of "cement block" taste might be in the middle, but leaning towards less positive.  A tea as tasting like an ash tray would usually be negative, and that can come up.  Some of those positive aspects missing or seeming out of balance can represent flaws (eg. sweetness level seeming off, or feel being thin).

In some online product descriptions--a minor subset of all of them, since it's rare--a lengthy list of flavors can seem improbable.  Complex teas can express a lot, and flavors can evolve across rounds, but when a dozen flavors are described as primary that's likely to be exaggeration.  Don Mei come to mind; he talks like that.  But some people really could free-associate a lot of valid feedback about the experience; maybe he is just doing that, a lot of the time, and isn't even clear himself on when it bridges over to less justified marketing spin.

And this circles back to whether or not it's positive or helpful to describe aspects.  If you are struggling to place 3 or 4 primary flavors then it might be interesting to develop a better aptitude for making such connections.  But once you pick up that ability maybe it would make sense to keep going, to see how far it can go, and that might become a valued part of your normal tea experience.  Or really the "raw experience" shouldn't change, with less labels placed on parts of that experience, so passing on all of it could also make sense.

That writing never unpacked how the tea wheel can help with this.  It may be easier earlier on to get a more vague sense of a general flavor scope range, for example seeing flavors as vegetal or floral, without it being easy to narrow that to specifics.  Using the flavor wheel can help support that kind of a two-stage interpretive approach, and can help with suggestions about the finer distinctions.  

I remember once struggling to place a flavor in winter oolong version, something warm and rich, that was unfamiliar to me, within tea experience.  It turned out to be malt, or more specifically the range of malt found in Ovaltine or malted milk balls (or milkshakes), versus the drier, edgier malt expressed in Assam black tea.  A tea wheel didn't help me then, but it could have.  Instead it just eventually came to mind.

The photo caption at the start mentioned that combined tastings might help.  But it's hard to say how.  That really works better to highlight differences, more than specific aspects.  If one version is much fuller in feel that will be quite clear, for example.  Differences in relative sweetness level stands out.  Something like greater flavor complexity, more going on for diversity of aspects, would also stand out, but it wouldn't necessarily help with identifying one flavor aspect version.  

It's drifting off topic a bit, but something also gets lost in using this approach.  You wouldn't notice the "cha qi" or body feel effect from just one version, which I don't tend to pick up on well anyway.  And a flavor experience can seem to build over time, as you drink round after round, in a form beyond simple transitioning, changes to aspects.  Switching between two versions would offset that.

Practice would make the most difference, trying lots of teas, and paying attention to them.  It's hard to describe what that entails.  It helps to set aside time and attention space, to spend a half an hour or an hour just drinking a tea.  Relatively pleasant but still neutral outdoor exposure can be nice for that; you don't need to be isolated in a low-stimulus empty room. 

he's not in the picture; this is from another day

As I type this, on an apartment balcony in Honolulu, a small bird with a green head stops by on the nearby evergreen tree to chatter on about something.  I suppose he is costing me focus, but in a pleasant sense.  It's nothing like watching a 45 minute Youtube video, where I'm immersed in a screen.  For me I also avoid music in the background; it's just one more layer of stimulus to tune out.

my very patient tea drinking companions back in Bangkok, usually caught up in exploring

that space.  having tea with breakfast doesn't help, but eating somewhat neutral foods first is fine.

On foreigners retiring to Thailand

 

The idea of possibly retiring to a lower cost of living country comes up in online discussions.  It relates to people identifying that US social security isn't enough to live on, and that their own retirement savings seems a bit thin.  The numbers you see vary, but per a quick check with Google 40% of all Americans have no retirement savings, and that only reduces to 20% for Americans over 50.

This isn't about all of that.  It's not even about complications in living abroad, although I will start with that theme, to explain what may not work well, or why it wouldn't work at all for some people.  I wanted to explain what retirement tends to look like in Thailand, how people tend to live.  Obviously I'm drawing on online communicated stereotypes and discussions; I don't know all that many retired people.  But for many it's a complete blank, and I want to help fill that in, since I've been living in Thailand for awhile (about 18 years).  Of course scope will be narrow, just thoughts or range that comes to mind, in part related to questions that come up.  Like these:

How developed is Thailand?  What do different areas look like?  Do expats / foreigners tend to live in "enclaves," or not?  What are different area options, versus just city, rural, and beach or island based?

Let's start with the problems.

Difficulties / problems

Oddly a visa isn't one of them.  With sufficient savings or proof of income anyone can get a retirement visa in Thailand.  I suppose if someone is quite poor meeting these minimums could be a real hurdle, if they are living on zero savings and social security.  But for many it would just relate to issues with proof, demonstrating that security with or without pulling out funds to place in a Thai bank for demonstration purposes (which might be required).

If someone isn't retirement age (I'm not sure the cutoff) they might have a different problem, since they probably wouldn't be eligible.  Thailand offers other visas, for investors, or shortcuts if you pay extra.  I suppose from there someone could try a work-around instead, to get an education visa to go to a low cost institution, whether they are really studying or pursuing an educational goal or not.  

Thailand continually weeds out people manipulating visa channels, using them improperly, but there would still be exceptions to work with.  It would be for the best to not rely on "work arounds" that involve cheating the system though.  People of different ages could take part in different forms of education, and in Thailand it might be broad enough that you could learn muay Thai or cooking, versus being in a degreed university program.  It's crazy how inexpensive and broadly themed vocational education options are in Thailand, but that applies a lot more to Thais, and foreigners would need to do a lot of research.

Communication both is and isn't a problem.  Enough people speak English that even out in rural areas you could manage transportation and buying food and such, with essentially no Thai language skills.  But it would make for an uncomfortable life experience, only learning a few basic words.  Speaking a few hundred words, even badly, would go a long way.  That's not that difficult.

In the short term society seeing you as an outsider might not be so negative, but in the long run it may not feel comfortable.  The US forms of racism or bias against immigrants isn't copied over; it would take another factor or two for someone to get beat up over it.  So this leads to the potential "enclaves" or expat gathering center theme I'll get back to, about people gathering together around others with similar background, to experience a limited and very local familiar culture, which I'll cover related to how that works out by area (in a few cases; none of this is comprehensive).

Missing home is the real issue.  Lots of people love the differences in an early honeymoon period.  New foods can seem fantastic, and low cost of living really freeing.  Problems that you would expect not coming up, the racism theme, could seem like more acceptance than it really relates to.  Romantic options could seem open (more for guys, and that tends to take a pay-for-play form, whether that's explicit or not).  But lots of familiarity is also missing.  Driving is more difficult, for awhile, and food options aren't the same.  Interactions with government systems are difficult, for example getting a driver's license, which you can do.  Beyond any of that it can get old being an outsider.  Or I suppose anomalies would come up, like someone not tolerating hotter weather well.

Different locations

Pattaya:  the sex tourism capital; for one type of transplant this is the obvious choice.  There's not much more to add about that.  Some people claim that Pattaya is really fine for living a life that's not based around that, but it's really all over the place there.  You could appreciate Western food or decent medical care options there instead, and I suppose if you lived in a quiet and out of the way part the sex industry might not come up much.  But in general if you are there it's for that.

Phuket:  this other main resort area might provide a better balance for people not so focused on the sexpat theme.  It's an option in places there, but it looks and feels like a normal island resort too.  There is a "downtown" part, and shopping, dining, and medical care are probably all fine (I've experienced the first two, on visits, just not hospital visitation).  There are a number of muay Thai gyms there; I suppose some few older guys, or women, might take up training to stay in shape.  Beaches are a little cleaner and more conventional than in Pattaya.  You can visit Rayong and go out on snorkeling outings not so far out of Pattaya too, but Phuket is more what one would expect for an island or seaside resort.  Our kids took surf lessons there on a visit once.

surfing in Phuket; I'm sure it would get better than that at times, in other places

recently in Waikiki; conventional sized waves, that can get a lot bitter

It's interesting hearing about how there are too many Russians in some places, or whoever else, increasing crime rates.  People who spend lots of time in bars tend to pick up a different perspective than I'd ever have.  It's nothing like Mexican cartels making some places unsafe.  Older guys do tend to die a bit often in Pattaya, per a favorite online story line, but it's probably more related to suicide than due to others' choices, even if both happen regularly.  

All of Thailand is pretty safe.  Drinking every day is a much higher risk than foul play.  This is just my take, but it seems like the darker the aspects are related to your lifestyle the more your risks escalate.  People doing illegal drugs bring risk on themselves, for example, and even more by drug dealing.  There's a favorite story line about foreigners being taken advantage of just for investing a lot of money, especially related to marrying a Thai, and I suppose if a lot of money is at stake potential risks could increase.  Trusting random people with millions of baht is probably a bad idea.

Isaan:  this is really where a lot of older guys end up, and a much smaller proportion of female retirees.  It's a great place to lead a quiet life.  The harsh, sometimes true story of a foreigner building a house in his wife's name, and then being cheated out of everything, must happen from time to time, but in general many more people must just lead quiet lives instead.  Foreigners can't own land, which could lead to those circumstances, having property and a house in your wife's name.  Or renting could work.

I think people just love those stories, and there is no story if some guy lives out 20 quiet years.  Probably in some cases the real details about someone experiencing ordinary misfortune aren't interesting enough, so that gets spun into something else.

One downside of Isaan life could be that it's pretty quiet there.  It's not different than in rural areas anywhere else.  That could sound good to someone, and could be experienced as very positive, then a year or two later it might not seem as pleasant and balanced.  I remember meeting local expats in a hotel gym / spa area once, talking a little about how life goes out there.  They didn't make it sound bad, at all, but there was a sort of desperation related to any mention of boredom.  To be clear where I'm from, in rural Pennsylvania (the US), it would be worse.  There aren't small communities on the same scale as nearby, just mostly small towns and tiny villages, and almost no one is moving there from anywhere else.  The one upside, related to the US, is that the roads are a little better, so you can travel further at a faster pace, so it all balances back out.

They have small local markets and food courts in different places all over, but you can tell this is Bangkok instead by the elevated highway.  Apparently I don't take that many pictures of normal markets when we visit smaller towns, but I do have others.

a Lopburi monument (there would be things like this in lots of places)

inside that monument.  what remains in places varies a lot.

all of those monkeys are all around you outside, and on the streets.

a sidewalk fruit market there is pretty typical.

Thai history goes back to the stone age, with interesting stages in between then and now.

Roads are pretty decent in Isaan, but it's all relative.  The main highways aren't like US interstates, and "country roads" can be a bit basic.  It doesn't seem unsafe to me, driving in rural Thailand, but you have to pay more attention, and adjust speed for conditions.  It goes a lot better than you might expect, but at the same time longer distances take a bit more time, compared to road travel in the US.

this could be lots of places, but I think it's in Trat

One might wonder what is out there, beyond farms, and small towns.  Temples, of course.  Plenty of parks, and some museums.  Historical areas turn up here or there.  It's funny how often expats complain of dual pricing, of paying more to enter natural areas and parks, but I suppose if you were going to them frequently paying 300 baht ($10) instead of 30 could seem a bit insulting, especially if you pay a lot more taxes than most Thais.  I don't know that it's mostly about the actual expense.  

They do the same thing here, in Hawaii, and visitors from anywhere else pay to go to some places that are free to locals (Hawaii residents).  I get it; the idea is to protect your local residents from experiencing costs meant to be imposed on visitors.  And that seems to be the rub for resident expats; they see themselves as local residents.  But they're not Thai.

Bangkok / Chiang Mai:  I was going to list out lots of places foreigners tend to live in Bangkok, but this is already running long.  It's possible to find that out online.  As I see it Chiang Mai is fairly comparable to Bangkok, maybe just better for being a little bit less of a sprawling mess, even though their traffic was already bad enough a decade ago, and must be much worse now.  

where I run around a palace in Bangkok.  I'm not going to show much of the city though.

a canal area on the walk to a local market near our house (in Bangkok)

a temple on the way (of course)

these drainage canals are cool, but can be a little smelly

Let's run through where some expats live in Bangkok though:

Udom Suk:  one main transplant hub, on "deep Sukhumvit," that might be called, versus lower Sukhumvit.  Suhumvit is the main road in Bangkok, essentially, running east and west with a N / S tilt to it.  This is on the far side, out east, and south, towards Bangna.  The areas are summarized as BTS (skytrain) stops; really the two stops on either side of Udom Suk aren't so different, since they're not that far.  There would be plenty of apartment complexes there, and restaurant options, with lots of it local in character (cheaper, more casual).  Even further out there are other areas, including Bangna, and foreigners would end up living all over the place.

Tong Lo / Ekamai:  the next level closer to a center of the city, but there is no singular center.  Maybe the Siam BTS stop area is more like a center, but it's not that.  These are trendier, and probably costlier areas.  Further on yet Asok is a main intersection area, again still on Sukhumvit and that BTS line, maybe as much the main center for expats to live as anywhere else.  There's a red light area beside Asok, Soi Cowboy.  I'm not sure that's the primary reason for its popularity; there is a lot of things right there, including a main mall (Terminal 21), a few shopping areas, a nearby large park, and so on.

These places would be more costly, but you could still find ordinary apartments around there for 20 to 30,000 per month, I think ($600 to $1000 USD).  High rises with a pool and gym would probably run on the high side, but there would be other kinds of options.  Other costs of living would still be kind of low.  It's a little hard to summarize what I mean by that, since running through costs for food, groceries, different kinds of restaurants, gyms, and so one would make for a good 1000 word summary.  You can buy a bowl of noodles for not very much all over, $1 or 2.  Groceries never cost that much.  In restaurants more oriented towards a higher end or more foreign clientele costs rise, but it's generally nothing like where I am now, in Honolulu, where $30 doesn't go very far to get something to eat.  You could spend that at Subway, and not get much for it.

There's a Japanese expat area near Phrom Phong, not far from Asok.  I don't keep track of those sorts of separate foreign origin areas, but of course Chinatown has connections back to China, and there's a little India, of sorts.  There is Middle Eastern influence around the Nana area, which contains another red light area.  Those red light areas tend to be a bit self-contained, so someone could live 100 meters outside of one and not really be that affected by it.  That's because it's not really an illegal business, even though in one sense it may not be fully formally sanctioned.  That part is complicated.

Siam:  people don't tend to live here.  There's no zoning for what can be built where, but more commercial areas tend to not include that much housing.  There would always be small apartment complexes not too far away, or a more pricey highrise kind of resident option almost anywhere.

Sathorn / Silom:  these are nice areas, beside each other.  Silom is also pretty commercial, but it's a decent size place, so there would be places to live around.  Sathorn is more a central business area and a residence area (it's much bigger; it has different sections).  There's no reason that Thais couldn't live in any of these places, but in general the local people we know are based from where their family had lived, or else they've moved into areas that seem a little more like suburbs, further out.  I've worked in Sathorn and Silom and most people had long commutes to get there.

Nonthaburi:  outside of Bangkok there are small areas where foreigners live, more of an enclave theme than what I've been describing.  Some might be in Nonthaburi, or at least a friend happened to live in such a place there.  There are very small complex areas where foreigners live within the city center too, for example not far from where the embassies tend to be.  I don't have much to add about such places.  Visiting one comes to mind, and it was nice how it was a small gated community (very small; maybe 15 small houses), with limited yard space for kids to play in.  That kind of standard form of a US suburb isn't common in the center of the city though, and may occur a lot more often a little further out.  Over by the airport my wife's close friend lives in such a complex. 

Sub-culture themes

There's an interesting divide between expats who pride themselves on integrating, and others who love Thailand but don't try to change themselves or their own lifestyle to fit in better.  It's all good, either way.  Of course people who are fluent in Thai, eat local foods, have local friends, and "get" the local culture can tend to express that's better.  Maybe I'm in the middle, even though I live in a Thai family, work in a Thai company, and was ordained as a monk at one point (as an example; that doesn't prove anything).

Expats can link up with other expats and still live a relatively local lifestyle, or naturally be introverted and somewhat isolated and still live a lot like a Thai.  Or they could pick and choose, and eat foreign foods, but play soccer (football) with Thais, and so on.

It comes up over and over that Thais aren't generally seeking out including a foreigner in their social circle, that it's hard to be fully accepted.  I suppose there is a perspective of foreigners being outsiders, which would take some effort to overcome.  Language issues would be part of that.  In the end foreigners do often find ways to link up with others, through sports themed groups, professional societies, or informal special interest groups.  If an expat is sort of passing through, only spending a few years in Bangkok, or elsewhere, it would just be easier that way.

It's interesting how some things are really simple and easy in Thailand, even more so than in the US, and other things are pretty difficult.  Maybe getting a driver's license is an example of a system designed to not work well in both places.  Medical care is pretty straightforward in Thailand, compared to in the US.  Quality of medical care varies, but plenty of that applies in the US as well, just less so.

Some pretty basic themes, like having someone cut your lawn, tend to work out better through personal contacts in Thailand, not so much whatever the modern equivalent of using yellow pages is (Google search?).  Lawns aren't so common in Bangkok; I mean across the rest of that scope, like getting treatment for termites.  My wife has so many personal connections with people who fix clothing, help around the house, are a better than average vet option, and so on.  There are always different ways to do different things, but some may not work out well.  Something easy, like being able to use a local pool to swim laps, may seem tricky, even though after you put the work into investigation multiple options would turn up.

It's for the best to avoid any involvement with Thai laws.  If you open a business you can't, of course, but foreigners would have very limited rights to do that, so it would be tricky to (and costly, but it is possible, with Thai partners).  I mean that you need actively observe cultural norms that overlap with legal issues, like not defaming others' public images online.  In the US you can do that, but not so much in Thailand.  Noise ordinances seem a bit less rigid, but again as an outsider you don't want to test those kinds of limits.  If your neighbors are really loud it's better not to follow suit.

Maybe these kinds of sub-themes could add up to not feeling at home, not knowing where all of the norms and restrictions lie.  It's atypical for men to walk around with no shirt on, but can you?  Probably, where it makes sense, but it's better not to.  

Transplant residents tend to not live in fear of violating the next norm, since Thais are pretty open and flexible, but different people would end up pushing it in different ways.  One former expat once gave me the advice that eventually I would have someone draw a weapon on me, which related entirely to how he was living, that it had led to that.  I'd have to think hard to recollect anyone speaking in an unkind manner, never mind anything like that.  But if you transplant your entire worldview and set of behaviors with you, instead of minding fitting in, maybe odd things could come up.

Another expat told me that after a few years I would equally not fit in anywhere, and I suppose there is something to that too.  I'm an outsider in Thailand and the US now, even though I feel at home in both places.