Thai tea, the Cha Tra Meu orange colored version

 

I'm reviewing Thai tea, the standard orange colored, flavored, black tea version.  I'll drink it as hot tea, with milk and sugar, but it's more common to drink it iced, or blended with ice instead.

I've reviewed a relatively identical version of this tea before, here, in 2018.  Here was my input from that review:

Thai tea tastes like mild black tea with star anise and artificial flavoring added. It's not that far from orange creamsicle. 

a DQ Thai tea blizzard; it's for the best for my health that they don't sell this often

Review:

it's more colorful in real life

It's good; it tastes like Thai tea.  A little astringency stands out, related to brewing chopped black tea leaves for over 5 minutes, at a pretty high proportion, maybe 4 grams for a 14 ounce / 300 ml amount.  All that is a guess; this is weighed, and the volume is an estimate.  But the flavor is good, and that feel input is softened by milk being added, so it's not at all negative.

In describing it I'll be describing a standard Thai tea flavor; the review would be the same for almost any decent version.  Cha Tra Meu is the standard brand, so in many cases people would just be drinking this.  That translates as "hand brand tea," or literally word by word as tea brand hand, for what that's worth.  There is a "gold" version, and I've reviewed both in the past, the original and the gold, but they're not so different.

It tastes like there's a floral input in this, and some depth that's harder to place.  I've heard before that the original version was black tea, orange blossoms (flowers from an orange tree), and crushed roasted tamarind seeds.  I wouldn't really know if it tastes like that.  It might resemble vanilla a little, but to me it tastes more like star anise.  

The flavors are somewhat artificial, I think, although I should take a photo of the package to confirm that.  According to a label image cited in that much earlier review it was:

It's not so different if they are natural flavors, extracted from different inputs.  In that case they're just not completely made in a lab, from chemicals, but some of the same compounds would be included.  I suppose it would be like the case of vanilla, where the main compound can be synthesized using chemical inputs, or the real spice input includes a lot of that and also other range, so it should be more complex.

I suppose if one could discuss the "roasted tamarind seed" range more that might work as a flavor description.  It's hard to place though.  There's no other roasted seed range, or the like, that I can compare this to.  It's not completely different than roasted pumpkin seed, but also not that close to that.  I've considered trying to roast tamarind seeds before, since it's a common fruit type here (sold as a dried version, usually), but I don't think we have a good version of a spice grinder for processing something that durable.  It's not like a coffee bean; those have a shell that resembles wood.

I don't drink much Thai tea, even though it is pleasant.  There's a branch of Cha Tra Meu in my office building, and in lots of other places.  I could have this every day, without making it, but I've never bought it there.  I think I skip it because I don't want it to become a habit.  The flavor is fine, and it's not that unhealthy, probably, but sticking to plain, good quality tea just makes sense to me.

My son drinks a good bit of this sold through Cafe Amazon, a main coffee chain here.  Of course Starbucks is also prevalent, but there are probably more Cafe Amazon shops.  A standard drink costs around 60 bath there, with around 70 baht converting to $2, so it's inexpensive.  Starbucks charges more like 150, or around $5.  For something like Thai tea or matcha drinks there may not be that much difference in different versions, and how much coffee drinks vary would depend a lot on subjective preference and perspective, on judgment.  I buy coffee from Cafe Amazon from time to time, but not Starbucks.

It's interesting how where people get drinks seems to vary by social class identification more than the drink quality or type.  There's another level above Starbucks, presented as higher in quality, that's usually reflected quite a bit by well developed shop aesthetics.  A very clean looking off-white interior is common now, although industrial looking coffee shops based on more grey tones also come up.  The old theme of wood panel and plant input is mostly finished.

the Flat+White coffee shop in Bangkok (their FB page)

I might add that I often have Thai tea in a slushy form, how my son drinks it.  We went to a suki place that had this (suki is a soup version that you cook yourself, adding ingredients they provide, like meat and vegetables, or dumplings).  Maybe it's a little better blended with ice?  It's good hot too.

These ideas I've presented bring something to mind.  Am I not drinking Thai tea because of some social positioning input, maybe not as a class theme, since I'm just kind of middle class here, but because I see myself as more developed or sophisticated in relation to tea preference?  It could be that, instead of the health related input.  But I'm concerned that I already eat some ice cream, most often from Dairy Queen here, and more often Ben and Jerry's or else Breyer's in the US, and don't want to add other high sugar, significant artificial flavor input to that.  The dairy part should be fine, but in shops it's usually sweetened and condensed milk, so not a very natural form of that.

If I were to drink this even every other day then a significant part of my diet would move to this minor sugar and flavoring input.  I see specialty tea as probably being healthy, and positive (more whole leaf, naturally grown, etc.).  In moderation, drinking one or two of these a week, it probably wouldn't shift the balance that much, but those choices can add up.

Is this relatively low quality, mass produced black tea probably made with a good bit of chemical pesticide and fertilizer?  Yes, that's my guess.  But you never really get to know.

It works to conclude that Thai tea is one of my favorite flavored tea versions, or maybe my overall favorite.  I like it so much that I avoid drinking it, if that makes sense.  It could shift to become a regular habit, and I'm already using my own self-imposed unhealthy foods allocation on ice cream and donuts.

Mental approach and state related to long term water fasting

I'm on day 4 of a 5 day water fast now, four full days without eating, counting that I started on Sunday evening and it's Thursday evening now.  For some people that's not that long a duration; they can extend it into multiple weeks.  5 or 7 days is pretty common for significant length water fasts though.

I'll get into what I consider to be a water fast, but I'll start with the point here.  Fasting requires an interesting mental approach, and it's interesting how your mental state plays out over 5 days, or more or less time.  Maybe it's what one would expect; it would depend on what you would expect.

Back to the definition of water fasting; there are a few, but the way I'm using it I will drink tea or herb tea, or diet soda, but nothing with any calorie content.  Of course some people limit it to water; that is implied in the term I'm using for it.  Some people drink coffee, but I drink mine with milk and sugar, and don't want to try to switch over on a very empty stomach.  

I don't drink a lot of diet soda when fasting, but I might have one or two.  I drank one so far; that will be it.  A local Thai producer, Singh, makes a nice diet lemon or orange soda that's a pleasant break from tasting nothing but tea for days.  I usually only drink herb tea a couple of times, but not because I see it as a negative input.  Related to tea I've found that I can only drink shou pu'er, some hei cha, and aged white tea, because those are easy on your stomach.  Shou is best.  Not because I like that type, because it's definitely not a favorite, but it works best.

Not to go too far into the how-to scope here, or probably at all into why to fast, but for the most part the only other thing I ingest is sodium, potassium, and magnesium electrolytes, or salts.  I use the chloride compound version of all of those, because they are readily accessible and the cheapest.  I don't eat much for vitamins; I did just take a multi-vitamin, but hadn't up until then.  The magnesium I take as a tablet (gel coated capsule, I guess that was), and the other two I mix into water and drink.  What dosage to take is pretty complicated; I'll skip that here.  I will say that it takes forever to get a decent input range sorted out, and it probably varies by person, and by what that person is experiencing.

Mental state

Someone on Reddit mentioned that the added mental tension or stress from not eating is part of the reason you benefit from it, which I found very interesting.  Their idea was that if you feel a constant tension for several days, and could resolve it completely just by eating, but don't, then the rest of your life feels that much less tense or stressful, because you conditioned to experience temporary but sustained stress.  I can't say for sure if that works, but maybe, or probably.

I really wanted to pass on more subjective experience description here, not theory on how it plays out, to say what it's like.  It changes as you gain exposure to fasting, so the first three times it's very different than after a number of fasts.  

This might be about 12 for me; I'm not keeping track (maybe just over a dozen, thinking it through more, or it could be 15, since I fasted a lot that first year).  I try to fast for 5 days 4 times a year, but this year I've only done it once earlier this year, so far, about seven months ago.  I spent about six months with my kids, in Honolulu and then in Bangkok, the two places where we live, and I limit activities like that while I'm around them.  It's nice eating with them, and cooking for them, so I just skip the practice, until later.  I'm living with Keoni now but not my daughter; he just graduated high school, so he's back in Bangkok, not returning to Honolulu for now.

a full sized child, kitten, and tea; these are important parts of my life now

In the beginning it's very stressful, and you experience more severe hunger and energy level disruption.  You think about food a lot more, and it causes more stress.  After a half dozen fasts you don't think about food very often, but an emptiness persists, and some degree of stress.

That's already pretty much the short version.  Somehow it seemed deeper than that, more complicated.  The form of the stress is unique.  People into fasting claim that you experience an unusual mental clarity, and I agree with that.  I can get way more work done if I'm on days 3, 4, or 5 of a fast than normal.  But I'm a little edgy too, prone to being short with people, so it comes at a cost.

I guess in general the starting points seem more important, and valid.  Why fast?  If it's just to experience stress then there would be lots of ways to add that to your life.  There is a list of conventionally accepted benefits, but those are impossible to verify, both by personal experience and through research.  They center around autophagy, a body process that clears out damaged cell material to use as resources, which is triggered by exercise, but all the more so by fasting.  All of this is conventional understanding; it's not easy to verify.  Supposedly it reduces risk of cancer and diabetes, and who knows what else.

There's not much that personal experience completely supports.  I feel a little mentally clearer since taking up fasting.  I seem to experience more energy when I run.  That would relate to metabolic flexibility, another benefit, related to your body adapting to use fat energy better.  I'm in ketosis right now; fat or muscle tissue is all the energy there is to keep my metabolism going.  Reserve glycogen seems to run out on day three, but again that's just another guess.

One very odd positive result occurred, that I can't fully connect:  around when I started fasting the grey hair I had then mostly returned to being colored again.  It seems a stretch, doesn't it?  And could even relate to improving general health, making limited changes to diet and exercise, or getting a bit more sleep.  There's no way to track the cause and effect.

So I may be fasting for nothing; the supposed benefits may not be real.  For plenty of others it's easy to accept what random web sources contribute, but for me it's not.  There's research on autophagy, but not so much on fasting effects.  It would be all but impossible to separate cause and effect in studies too.

Taking up another tangent, people might wonder if there aren't clear signs that the stress on your body is negative.  Wouldn't someone get sick more often, while not eating?  Kind of.  I get a minor sore throat sometimes, and sometimes taking some vitamin C clears that up, and at least once I've quit a fast because that seems to be a sign to.  In general not though.  

You feel stress, and hunger, and get a bit grumpy.  Energy level can vary some, but not at all like the crazy shifts for the first two to three fasts.  It would be better to start gradually, to minimize all of that, but of course I didn't.  I tried to fast for 5 days the first time, and figured out that not supplementing electrolytes wouldn't work.  I experienced common side effects, like problems sleeping, muscle cramping, and even perceived irregular heartbeat.  

Of course I quit that first fast when all of that came up.  I think that's an important part of it; striking a balance between being really committed to the fast and also being ok with giving it up if you feel sick, or if stress level goes too high.  I've been busy at work before and stopped a fast early; you have to keep track of how much stress still makes sense.

Now I can sleep fairly well, not so different than normally.  That is a bit odd, that not eating for days doesn't affect my sleep, at all.

Of course it makes you wonder if you aren't as sharp mentally, and might make some sort of mistake, driving, in work duties, or whatever else.  I minimize work impact by fasting on Wednesdays, normally, so the end of the fast is on the weekend.  I just said that the first half is worse, earlier on, but the first day is fine, and really only the second relates to more hunger.  Day three energy level varies, which isn't ideal, but starting a fast on Saturday would cause that on a Monday, which also wouldn't be great.  This week I'm fasting Monday to Friday, because my son stays with me, so I want to eat when he does on the weekend.

Update after the fast; how it went

It's Friday evening now, when I was scheduled to end the fast.  I'll often pull the plug two hours early, related to the time I took the last bite five days ago, going from dinner to dinner over those days.  It often works out that I ended eating at 7:30 or 8 to start, and it makes no sense to wait until 8 to eat to really fulfill that 120 hours (5x24).  Plenty of people approach it that way though, which is fine.

Today I ate at lunch; it might have only been 112, so hardly over 4 1/2 days.  Work has been really intense this week, involving a lot of productivity, meetings, and need to think a lot, and I wanted to be a little sharper for Friday afternoon.  I already knew that within the first hour or two after eating your body is kind of focused on digestion, with blood sugar from that only becoming available as it gets processed, so you don't snap right back to normal.  But it sort of worked; I could do work that last half of the day without counting down to when I would eat.

This fast seemed a little harsher than usual.  Taking 7 months off seemed to leave me less acclimated.  Or so I'm guessing; the busy work-week probably didn't help.  I was in a car accident the day before I started the fast, which was minor, so not a concern, but the stress level from that didn't make for a great start, going into it less relaxed.

I walked a lot less than I usually do.  Often I'll see a fast as a great time to get lots of steps in, because any energy used comes out of fat, and I'm not mainly doing it to lose weight, but I could use to lose a few pounds.  I'm up close to 80 kg or 180 pounds now, maybe a bit under both, and at 1.7 m / 5' 7" that's not so heavy, but it's more than I weighed in my 40s and earlier 50s.  I run, and less body weight is better, less stress on everything.

I'm not running now, for the last two weeks, because my right foot isn't ok, experiencing what seems to be an early start on bone spurs.  I've been running on it for three months anyway, just cutting back, but for pretty much every running injury I get that pattern plays out, that I cut distance and intensity back, and then only heal when I take a break for a few weeks, or a month.  So I'm not walking that much now either, but some.

What lessons did I learn?  Even after dozens of days of fasting, maybe 60 to 80?, the experience can still vary.  It's great if you can experience very little stress, and some unproductive time.  Ordinary life is harder during fasting.  I think it helps a lot with my mental clarity the rest of the time, and general health, so it's probably still a positive trade off, across lots of dimensions of my life.

Bao Zhong and Dong Fang Mei Ren from Moychay

 

I'm reviewing a Bao Zhong and Dong Fang Mei Ren (Oriental Beauty) from Moychay, more from a set of samples.  I'll skip the background story part here, since I've covered that before, and get right to their site listing descriptions, and the review notes.

Baozhong Oolong Tea, (22 Euro for 80 grams, $25.55, or 32 cents per gram)

Baozhong Oolong Tea is a high-mountain oolong produced in Sanming, Fujian Province, at an average elevation of 1100 meters.Co-developed with Taiwan in 1998, this tea is harvested around the Dragon Boat Festival, a time considered challenging for tea production. What makes it unique is the natural bite from small green leafhoppers (Jacobiasca formosana), which triggers a biochemical transformation in the leaves, releasing aromatic terpenoids that give the tea its signature floral-honey profile.

Baozhong tea is "younger sister" of Oriental Beauty oolong tea, also made from the Jin Xuan cultivar and picked entirely by hand, using a one bud and two leaves standard. It undergoes a multi-step process: sun withering, shade withering, repeated tossing (浪青), semi-fermenting (60–80%), fixation, a second fermentation, rolling, loosening, and drying. This yields a visually distinctive tea with curled strips and a five-color mix of red, yellow, white, green, and brown.

The brewed liquor is golden amber, with a mellow, clean, and honeyed flavor. Layers of fruit, flower, and gentle vegetal notes unfold over multiple infusions. The tea is smooth in texture and long-lasting in taste, known for its clarity and richness.

I wasn't familiar with the tie-in between Bao Zhong and Oriental Beauty / Dong Fang Mei Ren; most of what I've tried is processed to be less oxidized, and not like that.  It's interesting reading this after the notes; they're mostly about how close this is to DFMR, and how it differs.

This works as a reference for what is more typical of what I've tried, two origin area themed versions from Tea Mania, another favorite vendor.  On to the second tea's site listing description:

Oriental Beauty Oolong Tea (Dongfang Meiren Wulong Cha), (36.24 Euro for 80 grams, $42, just over 50 cents a gram)

Oriental Beauty Tea is a traditional semi-oxidized oolong produced in Sanming City, Fujian Province, at an average altitude of 1100 meters. Co-developed with Taiwan in 1998, this tea is harvested around the Dragon Boat Festival, during a narrow seasonal window considered particularly challenging for tea production. Its distinctive character comes from the natural bite of small green leafhoppers (Jacobiasca formosana), which triggers a transformation in the fresh leaves, producing natural floral and honeyed aromas.

The tea is made from the Jin Xuan cultivar and picked by hand, following the standard of one bud with two leaves. Its production involves withering under sunlight and shade, repeated tossing (浪青), semi-fermenting (60–80%), fixation, a second fermentation phase, rolling, breaking, and slow drying. The final leaves are twisted, down-covered, and display a five-color appearance—red, yellow, white, green, and brown.

When brewed, Oriental Beauty Tea yields a bright golden liquor with a rich and mellow flavor. Its aroma carries layers of honey, fruit, flowers, and freshness, with a soft and sweet body that lingers on the palate. It is known for its smooth, clean profile and complex fragrance, often referred to as “beauty fragrance.”

I thought that OB was usually made from an older Qing Xin local cultivar (local in what sense I don't know; the plants surely came from China at some point, but Jin Xuan is the product of a much later breeding process, a hybrid).  Let's check on Wikipedia's opinion on that:

Dongfang meiren is produced from a variety of cultivars of the tea plant, Camellia sinensis, that are grown without insecticides to encourage a common pest, the tea jassid (Jacobiasca formosana), to feed on the leaves, stems, and buds...

Because of the need for J. formosana feeding, the tea must be grown in warmer areas. In Taiwan, it is primarily grown in Hakka areas of the hilly northwestern part of the country at lower altitudes (300–800 m or 980–2,620 ft) between the mountains and the plains.[1] Beipu and Emei in Hsinchu County are noted centers of production...

The tea bushes are planted on the leeward side of hills in areas with sufficient humidity and sunshine.[1] The tea is only harvested in the middle of summer, only about 40–50% of the leaves can be used, and the harvest is susceptible to drought.[1] Therefore, the annual yield is low and the price is relatively high.

So according to what random people wrote there plant types vary; fair enough.  I must have written at least a dozen posts on other OB versions here, but I'm not going back through any of that, or developing this issue further here.  The tea experience is the thing, so on to the review notes.

Review:

Baozhong:  that tastes like Dong Fang Mei Ren alright (with all of this comparison between types written before I read those descriptions, and their take on the connection).  

The dry leaf definitely looks like it, instead of being a lighter oolong, as is common.  I can't say how atypical a more oxidized version actually is, since I'm not that familiar with the type, but if it works well then it works.

It has those nice sweet cinnamon and fruit notes common in DFMR / Oriental Beauty.  There's a bit of citrus, but the depth and complexity imply I'll be able to list out more flavors once it gets going more.  I brewed this for over 30 seconds, to get it started, but the leaves are only completely wetted now.  Feel is pretty good, and aftertaste expression is pleasant, especially that cinnamon note carrying over.  This is quite good.  Not the style I expected, but one I like even better than that.

DFMR:  in the same range as the first, including warm tones, some cinnamon, great depth, and plenty of complexity.  There's a brandy or cognac like flavor quality to this that's better than the other, but the first expresses better aftertaste at this stage.  There's a lot going on in this, but I think it might be easier to unpack next round.  Sweetness level is great, warmth works well with the rest, and deep mineral tones ground it well.  It's also a pretty good tea.

I was just thinking going in that if these are just ordinary range that's fine, and I should emphasize how not every tea needs to be an amazing version of a type.  It's nice when that comes up, but for a basic type like a blended Da Hong Pao you aren't really looking for that.  I just tried a Da Hong Pao from Moychay that I won't write about, that was fine, but not amazing, just decent.  And a Bai Rui Xiang wuyi yancha (rock oolong, Wuyishan area Fujian oolong) that wasn't that good, that fell well below the norm (don't buy that from them).  

I only write about teas I like, in general, from any vendor, unless the flaw or limitation tells a story, something like a Lapsang Souchong that is finally too smoky.  For these Moychay teas some were more exceptional than others, but that pair was the only ones so far that I've not posted the notes as a review for.  They're solid in general.  But these seem great, so far, so it's the other kind of case, where they really do seem to define the high end of a range.

Baozhong #2:  it hasn't really evolved.  Flavors were quite positive the last round, so that's not so bad, but it seemed like these might push on to being even more distinct and intense.  I'm kind of judging this as a Dong Fang Mei Ren, since it resembles that style, and in a sense that's not fair.  Related to what I had expected of type-typical Baozhong style this shouldn't be this fruity, or taste this much like cinnamon, and shouldn't be this oxidized to begin with, (which could be an error on my part; the normal range could be different from or broader than I thought).    

It's pretty good.  Cinnamon is pleasant, the hint of citrus works, and it seems to include general spice and fruit tones beyond that.  As a best-case DFMR the flavors could pop a little more, but it would still stand up as a pretty decent version of one of those.  Feel and aftertaste could be slightly more pronounced but they're in a very positive range.  Mineral depth is good, and overall complexity.

DFMR:  cinnamon really develops in this; it grounds the rest in that warm, almost earthy range.  Fruit is pronounced, but again not as distinct as it could be, so there's some citrus, and other dried fruit, but it would require imagination to pull that apart as a flavor list.  Some vendors would be happy to add another half dozen aspect descriptions, and for as complex as this is it would be justified.  But it all kind of mixes together, so it's not that apparent.  

Some of the fruit range reminds me of banana bread, or cooked banana.  The citrus is mostly just orange.  Mineral depth adds a lot.  This is so oxidized that the warmth and feel is essentially the same as for mild black tea, which is fine, to me that works.  The other tea doesn't include that astringency structure, and touch of dryness; it's more like a well-oxidized oolong (which makes sense; it is that).  

Yesterday I tried those other two Moychay oolongs, the Da Hong Pao and Bai Rui Xiang, and the plants around me shared more than I had, but I'm reluctant to give them any of this.  Maybe once it brews out more I'll share more.

These kinds of teas work well brewed lightly, so that you can really pull apart the flavor range, and savor the experience, but it might be nice to try them a little stronger, to see what that changes.  I'm still not going to brew them over 20 seconds, to avoid wasting the tea, but at around that timing they'll be quite strong, at this proportion (7 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan).

Bao Zhong #3:  not changing much.  Interpreted as an ordinary, more oxidized oolong this is really favorable.  Feel is fine (better than that, really; it's rich and full), flavor complexity is pretty good, taste range is positive, and it balances.  Trying to get it to match a Dong Fang Mei Ren standard type and outcome doesn't work as well, but it's not that.  As an OB / DFMR it doesn't pop quite enough, with specific flavor intensity a bit muted, but it is expressing cinnamon and fruit.  It's still quite good.

DFMR:  this is quite good too, just in a different character range.  The maxed out oxidation level would be familiar to people who drink a lot of DFMR, or have tried a good number, a half dozen decent examples.  It can be like that, and other versions are close enough to it.  Feel structure softens, and it feels fuller; it's interesting that it would transition like that so fast.  The most intense fruit has faded already, and warm tones and depth stand out.  Cinnamon is still really pronounced, the main thing that stands out.  

For someone most excited about fruit range these both might already be declining.  That's a little fast, but brighter tones extracting first isn't so unusual.  I'll probably write notes for only one more round.

Bao Zhong #4:  again pretty solid, but some of the lighter and more interesting flavor has faded, the more intense cinnamon and citrus.  This is still good; the flavor range and depth is nice.  More vague floral range picks up, and a more subdued fruit tone supports that, something like dried longan (a personal favorite; that fruit note is limited, but what is there is nice).  

DFMR:  pretty much the same as the last round, so there's not more to tell.  It's still quite positive.  It might be interpreted as holding up to more infusions more positively than the other, which is a good sign for quality level.  Or on a different read they just transition differently, not better and worse.

Conclusions

Really solid tea versions!  It will be interesting seeing the vendor descriptions.  I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't completely match some of that, especially related to the Bao Zhong, since interpretations can vary, and I doubt that they emphasize a match to DFMR style [I was wrong; they did].  

It will also be interesting to see pricing.  These were good, and unusual, so it wouldn't be so easy to place a market value on them.  DFMR tends to be pricey, for above average versions, and this wasn't unusual and particularly exceptional, but it is pretty good.  [later edit]:  the second, the DFMR, was priced higher than the other, and that seems fair, related to the type difference, and a possible quality level difference.  30 and 50 cents per gram for these seems fine; that's good value, for oolongs of this quality level.