Tea vendor bias and group identification

 

Sergey Shevelev in the Moychay Amsterdam shop

I had mentioned talking about tea vendor perspectives in a meetup session summary post, about appreciation for or bias against Moychay by Russian tea enthusiasts.  I'll go into more on that here, reviewing how I see cases of vendor support or negative impressions.  I think it might have more to do with embracing shared group perspective and association than what one might take to be more intuitive inputs, about range of selection, best quality offerings, or about value issues.

Alex said that the further along tea awareness exposure among Russians you go, relating to people with more developed preference and awareness, they tend to have a more negative opinion of Moychay.  But why?  It could be because they are better informed to judge, but that's not what Alex added as his main take.  He thought it's because as a vendor grows, gains a lot of exposure, and seems more "corporate" opinions naturally become more divided on them, including significant negativity.  To interpret that a little, it could be that tea "beginners" appreciate supporting introductory content, and haven't yet sorted into preference related groups.

We can see that in cases like Yunnan Sourcing and Mei Leaf, although maybe there's not a direct parallel to the layers of controversy surrounding Mei Leaf.  Or maybe we can set aside problems with plant age claims, exaggerated descriptions, and that one glitch related to branding through a Native American cartoon image, and perspective issues might start to match back up across vendors again.

I've noticed myself being more critical of Don Mei's content than may be justifiable (explained at length related to causes and limitations in this post).  In some cases his Youtube content contains minor gaps or errors, but even when a number of statements aren't wrong, but aren't clearly objectively right either, and that's all presented as background to sell a specific tea version, it seems a bit dodgy to me.  It could be like that with Sergey (the Moychay owner), that people are overly sensitive of tone in presentation, suspecting that a lot of the range is as much indirect marketing as it is genuine background content.  

Back to Don, I'll cite an example to place what I mean.  In one post about a Rou Gui he mentioned how the link between that type and cinnamon flavor--what Rou Gui translates as--is often overstated, that it doesn't necessarily taste like that.  Some do taste like cinnamon, or cassia, and some don't.  But if he had said exactly that it would be providing good background information content that could support selling the version he was discussing (which didn't taste like cinnamon), but as I interpreted his statement he implied Rou Gui just doesn't really taste like cinnamon, which is wrong.  Then probably if he had been selling a version that happened to include that flavor the opposite would have been emphasized.  Maybe I'm wrong about that; I tried to look up that video to re-watch it to evaluate that again, but I'm pretty sure that video has been deleted.  He did upload another on judging Rou Gui and Wuyi Yancha (Wuyishan area "rock oolong"),  but it's not the one I'm mentioning.

In that second video on judging Wuyi Yancha quality most of his ideas seem fine, it's just not how I would put similar interpretations.  He doesn't really get into mouthfeel and aftertaste as considerations, which to me leaves a lot out in terms of describing what people experience and value.  Complex flavor is part of it too, and I tend to frame descriptions a little differently than he would, but I can't say that he's wrong about what he said in that.  

There is an intensity and hard to describe character to good Wuyi Yancha that isn't exactly about flavor, feel, or aftertaste, but spans those.  I see it as a liqueur like or perfume like fragrant and aromatic quality, which comes across and balances differently in different versions.  His take is more about a long flavor list occurring, including subtle flavors, which is ok.  Different people can focus on different things, flavors really can be complex, and they do tend to transition over rounds, further complicating things.  People new to tea do tend to focus on flavor as the main experience, which never completely drops out later, but it's often seen as only part of what one is experiencing.

It's interesting how Yunnan Sourcing avoids this particular range of objection by Scott (the owner) not really using Youtube content as marketing, and erring on the side of limiting written product description of teas, just saying a little to give a bit of sense of what they are.  There's a good chance that half of his Yunnan Sourcing Fans Facebook group--which kind of is a sales tool, but a different subject, since Scott isn't really active there--aren't familiar with his Youtube content, because they just don't emphasize it.  

Different people do pass on thoughts on teas there in that group, so that's not different and could support sales, and marketing could still be the main point of the Youtube product description videos.  Part of this point relates to Yunnan Sourcing having 6000 subscribers on their Youtube channel, compared to 3900 members in that Facebook group; just promoting videos there would surely add to that viewership and follower count, but they don't do that.

Scott Wilson (of YS) making light of image issues, through a "caption this" contest, as I see this

Mei Leaf has almost 90,000 Youtube followers, and Sergey Shevelev of Moychay has 105,000.  Mind you I see nothing wrong with vendors producing tea background content to serve as both marketing and information for customers, and others.  It promotes the industry and general awareness, in addition to one vendor's products.  Everyone else selling or promoting tea should be grateful that both are successful at it.  

The point here is that in developing a lot of content, and being successful in gaining a following, even without self-promoting as a tea expert a vendor would automatically seem to take up the mantle of being an authority, one step towards being a "tea master."  To me it seems to help a little if there is less marketing angle and they are de-emphasizing their own reference content, as Yunnan Sourcing seems to.  William of Farmerleaf strikes a really great balance; nothing in their Youtube background information material seems geared towards sales, more just on background, but of course it could still support sales in that form.  He has 6000 subscribers too, as YS does; you can make of that what you will.

I can't really offer any opinion about most of Moychay's video content, related to that factor of balancing general information and promotion, because I've only seen a half dozen of their videos, mostly geared towards a Western audience, the translated versions.  It seems sales emphasis neutral, but there could be indirect marketing concerns with the more viewed Russian videos, for all I know, with that content open for critique.  It's sort of a slippery slope.  One might say that Wuyi Yancha is good, and then that this particular version is, and then that you should buy this through our shop.  It takes a deft touch to offer informative background but to not take the last step, so that it doesn't feel like watching an ad.

Alex's point that people are just going to be divided makes sense.  

Next one might consider whether or not there are broad quality or value issues that could trigger negative reactions from some Russian tea enthusiasts.  I'm not sure.  Moychay's product quality and value don't seem so different than Yunnan Sourcing's, to me; pretty good in general, covering a lot more range than is normal for standard vendors.  Some is exceptional, above average tea selling at a great value, or representing really novel offerings, with other examples just kind of normal related to all that.  Eventually a below average quality or value product might turn up from any source.  

For teas that are completely unique it can be hard to identify value, for brand new types, hybrid style versions, or rare aged teas.  For example, this yellow tea from Khosta, Krasnodar region, 2021 sells for $20 for 100 grams.  Sounds kind of low to me, but who knows, it might also depend on how well it turned out.  I doubt that there is a second yellow tea from that Russian area being produced to set a market value, not that I would know if there was.  I tried a yellow tea from Mississippi last year, from Jason McDonald's farm, which listed for $14 per ounce (50 cents a gram instead of 20), but production overhead in the US would probably be much, much higher, and the tea could be better, or the target audience could vary.

The main opinion expressed about Mei Leaf is that their tea is good, which is the main thing, but that value isn't very good, that you could get the same quality level of products elsewhere for less.  Then some Mei Leaf fans reject that last part, seeing the teas as unique and positive enough for above average level pricing to be fair.  A sub-theme about people liking or disliking Don Mei almost eclipses whether or not his teas are good, or a good value, as discussed in this Facebook group thread.

Where am I going with all this?  How vendors present themselves and end up being perceived is an interesting theme to me, especially related to forms and causes.  My final take may be way off, that people are really looking for a way to self-identify and connect with others in a lot of cases, even though they may or may not see it that way, framing their own outlook as a normal shopping perspective.

Group identification related to tea vending

For one particular reason I think Mei Leaf probably doesn't get fair treatment, in retrospect, maybe even from what I've communicated, even though I think their tea is probably generally overpriced too.  I think Don "rubbing people the wrong way" as a video persona factors in a lot.  I don't think Scott Wilson of Yunnan Sourcing gets too beat up online, but it seems like any successful vendors can easily become targets for criticism, justified or not.  Maybe justifiably so?  A bit of pushback here and there might keep them honest.  Reddit comment discussion sometimes tends to go a couple steps beyond that.  Scott did get involved with a messy discussion issue there once, but then that's Reddit for you, not much better than Twitter for sometimes being harsh.  

That's only half the story though.  People love Don Mei more than seems justified too, clear from that Facebook group post I mentioned:

*In Mei Leaf's most recent video*

Commenter: "Why does the Facebook Gong Fu Cha goup hate you so much?"

Don: "🤷‍♂️ Maybe I would dislike myself if I was on the outside"

Lololol I don't buy Mei Leaf teas because of shipping costs, but I love Don so much.

I guess that he loves Don because of his sense of humor?  I'm not sure that comment was offered as humorous.  The comments there talk about appreciation for his teas, his online content, and for him being an interesting and charismatic person, the part that people are divided over.

I think group inclusion is the extra component that's not as evident.  Why would almost 4000 people join a Facebook group to talk about tea from one vendor (Yunnan Sourcing Fans)?  To be fair Q & A discussion does go better there than in most places, but cutting off discussion at one vendor's selections seems limiting.  Why are there lots of vendor specific Discord servers now, with varying degrees of engagement?  I only belong to Farmerleaf's and Liquid Proust's, because I was just checking those out more than participating, since I wouldn't have anything to add for not being a regular customer for either.

Moychay's tea clubs theme is something else, but it connects.  That adds in drinking tea in a setting that goes a long step beyond a cafe for being decorative and establishing a vibe, and it supports a more ceremonial take on tea experience.  All the same it is also shifting individual tea experience to social experience.  

this is more a tasting area than a club, but Moychay's club theme is an interesting subject

The online group case is more interesting to me though, because then it's reduced to being abstract, having more to do with self-definition and text message discussion contact than real life.  Or the "main" Discord group, Communitea, is big on voice / audio based meetups; I guess that's more in the middle.

In a podcast comment discussion someone once mentioned being "on team Xiaguan," not just saying that they like Xiaguan, but emphasizing how that put them in a group.  To me that's odd, even though that form of expression comes up more and more now.  Podcast creators tend to lean into this social dynamic, making their audience feel like part of a group, by establishing specialized use of slang, or even a nickname for group members (as "teaheads" is used).  Theo Von and Chris Delia are good examples of comedians using this form.  Oddly on one Reddit subforum Joe Rogan podcast followers connect and unify related to seeing Joe Rogan as an idiot, reveling in dumb things he says, or making fun of him for using steroids, for being short, or for his anti-vaxer position.  It still works, I guess, it just seems backwards, unifying as fans connected by partial dislike.

Vendors could make use of this, the positive part, right?  That's essentially what the Discord groups represent.  It's not negative really; to the extent someone wants to feel like they are a part of something for liking Don Mei's teas, or those from Yunnan Sourcing, Moychay, Farmerleaf, and so on, that's fine, and it really is also about sharing information.

Next more experienced and older tea enthusiasts might look down on all that, and see it as silly how younger and newer participants cling to odd forms of association.  But it happens in more subtle ways across a broad spectrum, even when people don't feel a need to formalize the link.  If someone loves Essence of Tea, Teas We Like, Tea Encounter, or Hou De you won't tend to hear about it, but there's no reason why someone couldn't value "being in the know" in a similar form, just with less post comments for interaction.  Without even taking up the external role as an elite, experienced, "higher" form of tea enthusiast the more subtle social role as isolated participant may still be regarded as meaningful.  Not joining a group or talking about it could be seen as just following a different code:  those who talk don't know, and those who know don't talk.

Let me pass on a thought that ties to this, that might clarify it.  To an extent I get the impression that some more introverted expats--foreigners living abroad, somehow implied as higher in status level than "immigrants"--like the social role because it defines them as different, and as being a certain way, without any need for setting that up or interacting.  Just being white is a stereotype, where in the US you need to pair that with class / economic status to make a start, and then it still doesn't go far, and you also have to add political affiliation.  Here in Thailand, where I live, foreigners are respected but also disliked a little, seen as quirky and odd but likely to be intelligent, and interpreted as probably having questionable morals, related to paying for romantic relationships.  It's not quite that simple, but basically you are a type, just for being white.  Let's set aside how that would go for other races; that's not the point.

The point is that stereotyping, and to some extent group inclusion, is almost freely granted, and some people seem to value that.  In tea groups you just need to adopt shared perspective, which isn't quite as easy, but which may not be very difficult.  

Tied to Mei Leaf support expressing or just feeling that "I love Don" is more than enough; you're in, even without buying the tea, as that guy explicitly stated in that post.  As a Yunnan Sourcing fan you just need to have placed one order, and to have liked one tea version, and to express intention to keep going.  If you want to feel at home among 10+ year experience tea snobs on Tea Forum--no offense intended; those people are nice--it's not quite so simple, but parroting what others say goes a long way.  In the Gong Fu Cha Facebook group you just need to buy a gaiwan, and to be looking into yixing, or post any photo of drinking tea outside.  R/tea on Reddit isn't a unified social group, but posting a picture of a half dozen boxes of grocery store tea-bag tea in a cabinet will draw at least 100 upvotes.

Why are we like this, group oriented to a strange degree?  With me included, surely.  An online contact put it well in a Quora answer about how social interaction is evolving: 

There's a broad emphasis on smaller and more detailed clustering, which in turn relies on people having a firmer sense of self and on them defining themselves in certain ways. We assign ourselves to many categories which are smaller and more specific than perhaps they've been in the recent past.

Right! A half dozen years ago people might group together in relation to tea interest, but that has pushed down to which teas people like now, or how they brew and experience them, and on further to which vendor sources of those teas they prefer.  Embracing or rejecting someone with a high profile online as an information source, or sub-culture leader, is just an extension of that.  

there's nothing wrong with combining being charismatic and informative, as So Han does

People can even now unify, to an extent, in relation to shared dislikes, not just personal associations and likes.  So this seems to be the last component of the negative mixed feelings related to many tea vendors; it's attractive to dislike a lot of things, and even to identify through that.  It automatically places you above that subject or person, for looking down on them.  If you dislike Dave Chappelle for making transgender jokes that identifies you as more sensitive to minority perspective than him.  If you can criticize the people who make that criticism, for being "woke," then you are implied to have a broader view of how social commentary works than they do.  Even not liking a movie can place you socially.

Never taking up these kinds of connections and oppositions would be a very reasonable and functional option.  But then there wouldn't be that much to talk about on social media, so that perspective would tend to not be expressed, or wouldn't seem interesting if it was.  There's normally a strong inclination to like or dislike things, to agree or disagree with ideas, so remaining neutral isn't so simple.  It's natural to react, and to place yourself in relation to that kind of perspective.

William Osmont of Farmerleaf

Jason Cohen on the Penn State tea club, Gastrograph, and AI food design

 

We next met Jason Cohen related to that online meetup theme, a very interesting contact.  He founded a Penn State tea club at my alma mater (one of them), or really an "institute" since it was both a social club and did research.  We didn't talk much about that PSU experience, more about Gastrograph, a food design company, but I'll summarize a little about that part here first.  Related to referencing his background, his personal blog provides a short introduction, with posts filling in other parts, and a book project site on Chinese tea ceremony is here.

That Penn State tea club is interesting to a lot of tea enthusiasts in relation to representing one high potential channel for developing tea awareness.  The form of that club was unique too, really divided into separate parts covering interest in a range themes.  They supported basic tea awareness, of course, and development of effective brewing technique, but also focused on the ceremonial side, and on tea history, with particular emphasis on Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Taiwanese teas and brewing practices.  They had an extensive collection of teaware for club members and visitors to use, and had renowned tea specialists visit for events and direct support of tea experience.  

All of that was long after my time at PSU, but it would've been great to have it there as a resource when I had been attending.  Jason clarified that his involvement with the Tea Institute ended in 2018, and it later became inactive.  We really didn't discuss how that had worked out, but any university groups cycling through membership and leadership would pose a challenge for continuity.

I haven't been back there in 4 years, and then just passing through

Related to Jason's current career, Gastrograph is a food development research company, now pursuing an alternative direction to standard flavor and aspect preference testing practices.  Jason explained that conventional form:  a research company would set up a testing program, bringing in a lot of test subjects, along with developing prototype versions of the new foods forms they want to test, and would run a large set of tests, carefully collecting as complete data as possible.  

Gastrograph does something that overlaps a bit, but it's different.  They use an Artificial Intelligence based approach, using a bank of prior test data that develops how food and flavor preferences vary in specific areas, and draw on that to project how changes to a current or standard product offering might be received.  Of course there is a margin of error involved, but then some degree of testing could supplement this data driven versus direct testing approach.  And they wouldn't need to get the same preference pattern identified in testing completely right, depending on the context; providing reliable information and direction could be enough.

It's hard to completely get your mind around how this could be applied in practice, and short discussion of that only went so far.  Of course we asked Jason how this might apply to tea, or how they had applied it to tea, and his answer was interesting for placing both their research service scope and loose tea experience.  They've only used the approach in support of RTD (ready to drink / bottled) tea development, and it wouldn't be a great fit for higher quality loose tea.  Jason explained that one reason for this is that variability in the finished experienced beverage version is problematic, that when different people brew the exact same tea variance in water used, brewing process, device, timing, and so on would change their experienced results.  It's helpful, at a minimum, to understand and define what the final food / flavor experience will be, in order to make predictions about locally oriented patterns in preference. 

I suppose one might wonder if development of tea blends couldn't fill in as a middle-ground exception.  Discussion didn't go there, and to some extent what Gastrograph is doing is demand driven, and oriented towards mass produced food items (new versions of potato chips or such).  Tea and herb blends could be a conventional product but not really a mass-market, high demand volume category.

From there we did drift through lots of other interesting examples and details, but for a summary version of what their work is about that's enough.  One might expect that in order to accurately predict local preferences they might need to collect an unusually vast data set to draw on, not just by country but also by regions within different countries, and Jason addressed that it is a main challenge they face.  As one example he mentioned that Germany breaks up into a number of different food-preference regions.  In another case he relayed that they've been slow to develop India as a services base because local food preferences vary so broadly, and by very limited areas, not necessarily by large and uniform sections of the country.  In Italy too, related to that concern; I suppose that's not a surprise.

Years ago when I first talked to Jason I downloaded a Gastrograph app version that supported making spiderweb graphs of food flavor aspects evaluation.  Jason explained that this tool evolved to be the main way they record data in their collection phase, but that it hadn't been developed as a tool for personal use, for example for people to record their own tea reviews or notes.  It's on their agenda, expanding the function and form for that, but the natural evolution of their business direction didn't raise it as an early priority.  Their business isn't focused on tea themes at all, really, or else that would've already occurred.

this would probably be from an earlier version of the app than is presently available

It seems natural enough why specialty tea isn't a suitable subject for this type of preference testing and product development research.  Better loose tea is what it already is; only flavorings and blends actually vary natural product scope.  And it's not a large scale production item in Western markets.  Bottled / ready to drink teas are, and they've done some work related to that.

From there discussing tea culture and history themes was really interesting.  Jason lives in NYC now, and had attended school in PA, but his personal history covered living in a number of other tea related countries, in China and India, and related to spending time in Korea, Taiwan, and Hong Kong.  It was fascinating hearing a perspective on related parts, about flavored tea preference versus better plain tea, a little on pu'er aging issues, and so on.  More of that would have filled in if we hadn't focused as much on hearing about the Gastrograph direction and methodology, and more about the PSU club, but that was a really interesting and completely unique topic, so it was worth that trade-off focusing on it.

Early on I joined from in the car, with my image lighter or darker by streetlight

Always nice seeing Huyen's family too

Russian tea experts join our online group meetup

 

photo credits to Suzana and Ralph, respectively

It was hard to know how to put this title summary, since "enthusiasts" really doesn't capture the level of developed input these two tea contacts are able to pass on, but they both seem a bit plain-spoken to take up this form of implied experience claim.  One is Alexander Zhiryakov, the main founder of Laos Tea, and the other Alexander Vorontsov, a main founder of the Russian Tea Lovers enthusiast group.  Both might take tea interest a bit further than I do, at least in two different senses.  Adding commercial tie-ins is a change in interest form, and the Russian Tea Lovers, which I think both Alexanders are associated with, really take exploration seriously.  

I've met both before, for which I'm very grateful.  A chance online contact with Dasha Birukova led to her inviting me to a tasting at a Moscow bookstore on a visit there, which was very pleasant.  It was a chance to meet Alexander Zhiryakov and great exposure to a form of Laos tea and local culture.  I think I started talking to Alexander Vorontsov not so long after that, surely tied to posting about Russian tea themes, and we met here in Bangkok when he visited later.  He helped me write a post about tea culture in Russia, which mentioned that Moscow bookstore tasting.

Russians smile, just not as much while they are commuting

cheerful Russians on the Moscow subway; meeting silly tourists helps improve the mood

meeting at my favorite local Chinatown shop, Jip Eu

I'm a fan of Russian culture and their tea culture.  And of lots of places and cultures, moving on to really appreciate varying outlooks on life in general, but it's nice how it all plays out related to tea there.  The tradition runs a bit deeper than in most places, including here in Thailand.  Although the most mainstream form there now relates to Ceylon appreciation local tea enthusiasts are focused almost exclusively on Chinese teas, probably mostly on pu'er.  Tea clubs are a novel theme there, like a cafe but different in form.  I'll add a little introduction of both participants along with more on that.

another tea contact and vendor, and that club environment

We talked most with Alexander Zhirayakov about a new project to test teas and set up a "passport" or profile of them based on testing, a "Tea ID" project.  The idea is novel, to gain extra function from conventional screening of what is negative (pesticides and such) along with clarifying origin and, if possible, quality level through still-under-development use of specific identifying markers.  It may be possible to take some of the burden off supply chain tracking and direct-from-origin information streams by verifying a lot that simply can't be identified through testing now.  You can imagine how lots of tangents come up in just considering such a possibility:  how would that be possible, what other function or purpose could be added, and what limitations or other cultural considerations might support or block such development?

Alexander Vorontsov helped summarize a bit on local tea culture in Russia, a subject I thought my friends would also find fascinating.  That naturally moved from an overview starting point to considering which teas were focused on most, and how quality issues and sourcing relate to differing forms of local tea interest.  It's hard to really get evolution of local ceremonial aspects integrated in a short discussion; talk of connections or lack of exposure with varying tea origin areas, supplier issues, and other background naturally comes first.  He did pass on a bit about the tea clubs, just not much about their tea enthusiast group development, which we just didn't get to.

It's hard to condense the broad range of both discussion scopes to simple take-aways.  Covering personal likes and practices helps fill in more of a broad background, but those really don't lead to distinct summary.  That's what local tea culture is though, shared appreciation, and the sum total of lots of individual experience preferences.  A couple of hours only goes so far in mapping it all out, and covering personal introductions.  Maybe a backwards approach, explaining what we missed, will help fill in what was covered.

Laos tea:  for focusing so much on that interesting testing direction we really didn't get far in discussing tea from Laos.  It's a shame, because two hours isn't a lot of time to do justice to only that, but that testing project was worth the focus.  This meetup group has now talked to the two people probably most involved with Laos tea production and promotion in the world, with Anna as the other, and barely got into which tea types are now made in Laos.  I know the answer to that, based on trying dozens of individual versions; I should write about it in a summary post.  Or we could get Somnuc Anousinh (mentioned here, here, and here) to meet online sometime and focus on that.  That one black tea, the first "here," is one of the best versions of black teas I've tried, per my preference; a bit rustic in style but just fantastic, really basic but deeply appealing as Dian Hong can be.

Or in the meantime Alexander wrote a good bit and shared photos on that background here.

Vietnamese tea, Huyen's input:  it's hard to get 4 people a balanced proportion of time to cover where they stand on a discussion topic, and completely impossible for 6.  Alexander Vorontsov mentioned that he lacked significant exposure to better Vietnamese tea but we never really filled in what that range is, even in summary discussion.  To me Vietnamese tea is the best and most diverse in South-East Asia too, unless one considers Taiwan part of that set, and then probably second.  Laos is at a cool place for building on very old roots in novel directions, and countries like Thailand and Indonesia have been doing that for longer (in the modern forms, at least), but Vietnam's tea production development is far more mature.  Not really so much compared to China, but then that's true of everywhere else too, to me even in comparison with Japan.

Tea production in India, Russia, and Georgia:  we actually did discuss a bit about all three of these origins, but surely left out far more than was covered.  It would be nice to get back to all that in follow-up.  The tricky part about discussing regional development, and personal preference, is that a main sub-theme about quality levels never completely drops out, and also never becomes completely clear.  Sheng "pu'er" from Laos and Vietnam (and Thailand, and elsewhere) can be varied in character, quite positive, and maybe a bit variable across a lot of aspect range, not dialed in to the narrower character expected and valued from Yunnan.  That's also an oversimplification, since Yunnan sheng varies a lot, not only related to origin and style conventions, and quality level, but across lots of range.  The same problem comes up everywhere, talking about differing but overlapping subjects related to tea types, styles, and quality levels.

Samovar brewing:  mentioned in closing, Alexander Vorontsov said that in a future session he could go through what this is all about.  I've only tried tea--mixed with herbs--brewed in a samovar once. That was one of the more interesting experiences of my life, related in part to the context, visiting a dogsled racing camp in the Arctic region in Murmansk, Russia.  

riding that dogsled at around 4 in the afternoon

No doubt Alexander has lots to add beyond what I experienced through that cup of tea.  It goes without saying that the Russian Tea Lovers sessions would mostly use clay pots for brewing, maybe only setting those aside to use a gaiwan, if that seemed relevant.  Or so I would assume; we really didn't discuss anyone's preferences in much detail, related to when or for which types Western brewing might make sense.  Alexander (Vorontsov) was drinking mate from a related device during that meeting, and other kinds of exceptions must come up.

that Russian Tea Lover's Instagram capture, with Alexander Vorontsov in the lower right

There isn't much in here about what Huyen, Suzana, Ralph or I thought of any tea theme.  For having two guests this time we stuck more strictly to focus on their input on tea themes.  And that input and discussion was great; all of us really appreciated it.