Shipping rest issue; re-trying a 2007 Bailong Jinggu sheng

I tried a 2007 Bailong Jinggu sheng pu'er not so long ago, an inexpensive version from Chawang Shop, reviewed here.  Part of that review theme was to taste the tea right away, just after getting it, without letting it rest, then to get back to it a month later.  This is that part 2.

I had liked the tea but it seemed a bit subtle, with a generally low intensity that would definitely be seen as a flaw in the character.  But then not letting the tea rest after shipping is said to cause that, which I have noticed before, but never reviewed in the form of doing a split review (like this).  On to it; I never will quote that earlier post, so if someone is interested they can read it too, or there is a summary take on it in the conclusions part.

Review:

First infusion:  a little rough; some dry mushroom and wood / cardboard mustiness.  On the positive side that dry character seems like it will probably fade and transition over the next two rounds.  The appearance of the tea could be a little clearer too, although it's not so cloudy, just not completely clear.  As for flavors beyond that some light molasses sweetness shows promise, and cleaner woody tones seem more positive.

To be clear I've tried this tea between the initial review a month ago and now so I know where this is going to go.  I didn't refer back to the old review notes first, but I have tried this in the last week so it's familiar.  It did improve; I'll mostly leave it at that.  As I remember it seemed like it might have room to transition positively with more age, or at least there was indication that might occur, which I'll add more about along with tasting details.

Second infusion:  much cleaner.  This will be in a more typical part of its cycle next round but it's much more positive that fast, which is a good sign.  I wouldn't interpret this as tasting anything like mushroom, although a woodiness close to aged wood or furniture picked up.  The main range is aromatic wood, cedar or the like.  That's close enough to cigar tobacco; an interpretation as that would also seem natural.

It's relatively clean in taste, although it will probably be even cleaner during the next round.  The main story of this tea will seemingly be how it will keep shifting over the next few years, finishing out age transitioning.  That and how someone relates to that aromatic wood or tobacco range related to personal preference; some people would probably really like that, and others would hate it.

It's my impression that it wouldn't be well-regarded by some experienced sheng enthusiast general convention, but I don't try to prefer what others like.  Such conventions seem to evolve based on both shared-experience preference development (influence within a group), and a natural pattern of preference evolution that occurs, so I'm mostly rejecting the former as important to me, but I must tend to experience the second, to some degree.

Third infusion:  that's even better.  It's completely clean now, with a much improved feel, only a little dry, but more along the lines of showing a pitch-like resin feel.  Tobacco and aromatic wood evolved a small step further towards molasses, matching the warm, rich sweetness and the warm underlying mineral tone.  The resinous feel matches up with a pine-bark woodiness in this round, missing that herbal sharp note in the pine needles but not completely unrelated.

As I remember a distinct lack of intensity was problematic in the first tasting, and that's not the case for this.  I'm using a high proportion (the usual, maybe 8 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan) and quite short infusion times, a bit under 10 seconds.  It's plenty intense at that infusion strength, and would work well using flash infusions at this proportion, or for using only 6 grams for the same timing.

on the green side for this age, normal for relatively dry stored sheng

Fourth infusion:  flavor range shifts a bit towards roasted chestnut, moving off aromatic wood a little.  The feel is nice, with a little room for improvement.  It's not thin but not as substantial as for many sheng versions at this age, with the resinous dryness giving way to a smoother feel, but one with only moderate structure.  Aftertaste is similar; it doesn't linger in a very positive fashion, or for an extended length of time, but the experience doesn't drop away either.

The most positive part of the effect (aside from the limitations) is the way the experience balances together.  The flavor is in a relatively positive range, with no negative aspects.  Intensity is good (reasonable, in a positive range), and feel works for me, even if it could have more richness and depth.  Warm mineral tone is a little towards struck-match character, but bridged between molasses and that; it works.

I get the sense that some of this aged wood, not so far off a greener version of aromatic wood, is close enough to or partly through transitioning to something else.  That fresh edge seems to be what some people value in dryer aged sheng, that it seems to never completely drop out, even though over a long time the sheng will keep transitioning.  I kind of get it; if this tea had spent the last 13 years here in Bangkok it would be relatively completely fermented, but the earthiness would quite likely resemble damp basement character or geosmin (like beets or dirt; with more on that general effect or aspect related to beets here).

Fifth infusion:  balance keeps improving slightly, but it hasn't transitioned so much.  I like the overall effect.  Warm underlying mineral stands out quite a bit, and decent sweetness, with the rest just shifting in relation to proportion of other flavors (pine bark or resin, tobacco, roasted chestnut, molasses, aromatic wood).  Feel isn't really dry, as it had been in the first three rounds, with that remaining more moderate resinous feel matching a seemingly paired flavor coating your tongue, and showing up as feel aspect in the rear sides of your mouth.


Sixth infusion:  this might be fading already, moving back to a slightly drier woody tone that's closer to where it started.  Or it might just be that feel and flavor effect vary by infusion strength, and dropping timing a little doesn't seem to work as well for me.  I'll check one more round and let this go.  Late rounds do tell a different part of the story, and I don't get the sense this is remotely close to the end.  But it seems like enough for this purpose, identifying how it changed due to resting for a month.


Seventh infusion:  I didn't really let this run longer, still trying it infused for around 10 seconds, to keep that consistent.  Intensity may be dropping off slightly but it's far from finished, and isn't into late-round transitions just yet, it would seem.  The same profile applies, not even really shifted in balance much from 2 or 3 rounds ago.  The character transition I had mentioned in the last round did seem to relate to using a slightly shorter infusion time.

Conclusions:

Again the idea was to compare the character to what I thought of it a month ago, reviewed here.

It didn't seem all that different related to flavor and other aspects description, but it did seem a lot more intense in this review session.  I've tried it again in the middle and that was my take then too; it didn't seem as muted as initially.  Feel intensity seemed to pick up a decent amount; per that description and my recollection it was a bit thinner then.  Of course interpretation is hard to pin down; what I've been drinking recently might set a standard benchmark, so whether it's in the better or worse range of what I own might matter.

Beyond flavor intensity ramping up just a little this might have picked up a trace more depth, a little more warm tones and underlying mineral.  This review mentions richness that borders on roasted chestnut, and that earlier version only talked about light cured wood tones, pine resin, and tobacco range.  In late rounds that shifted to root spice range in the first review, but I've dropped taking notes prior to that point here.

Within another year or two those warmer, more complex tones will probably pick up, as the green wood and lighter tobacco notes transition.  Or it could just go to straight tasting like a cigar; it's not as if the transition patterns are that familiar to me yet.  Often even faded flavor in more-aged sheng can pick up a cool root-spice effect, a depth that's not necessarily intense (in terms of flavor) but that seems pleasant anyway.  It's not completely unlike roasted bamboo flavor, mild but with pleasant depth.


It seems like people might use "menthol" in different ways in descriptions (and some even describe themselves doing so), as a way to place what isn't necessarily familiar, or to capture an unusual range that is as much feel as flavor, or in a strange place that relates to both mapped together.  I tend to not interpret aged sheng as tasting like menthol.  It's completely possible that I'm not drinking good enough aged sheng, or that I've not experienced some of the most positive range of potential age transitions.

That's going to keep being a limitation as I progress through more experience.  I won't be buying the standard, well-received, favorably stored $150 aged cakes that draw attention for combining good value and positive character.  My tea budget just isn't there to support that.  For that limitation this almost seems like a good place to leave off most exploration of aged sheng range.  The subject will come up again but all of the most obvious next steps I won't take, escalating quality level and expense of versions.

I really don't mind; it has been interesting to get as far as I have.  I have a bit of tea around, just not much as pu'er enthusiasts go, so I'll keep seeing how it changes over time.  That probably won't relate to doing many "progress check" posts, unless something triggers that.

There's more sheng on the way now, if it ever actually makes it here (transit time is drawing out), and there are always samples as an option, so I'll keep doing reviews.  The general point was more that a typical next-level direction seems to keep coming up, but I don't plan to escalate spending to pursue it.  Cakes like this are nice for enjoying variety and basic range, also covered by a few 2006-range CNNP versions I have, and a good bit of Xiaguan and Dayi cakes and tuos, and an occasional Yunnan Sourcing in-house production cake.

Pandemic theme photo sharing:

On a completely different subject I returned to working in my office (versus from home) at the end of last week.  The pandemic experience was interesting, but we're down to wearing masks a lot, and reducing group activities, with local restaurants facing an odd mix of restrictions that make it hard on them.  Bangkok malls aren't re-opened but that seems next up.  It's been different, and we've been really lucky that impact here has been minimal.  I'll share a few photos that cover what that was like for me.

beating the heat in a kiddie pool

me too

Kalani didn't let being shut in get in the way of looking fabulous

Keoni with a chalk image of me

growing a "pandemic beard" was a nice sub-theme

abstract chalk art

they made it back through a lot of their old toys, with focus on Duplo and also smaller Legos

visiting a grocery store in a closed mall

PPE overkill; I'm walking around like that when out now myself

that cat has mixed feelings about all the extra attention

Shipped tea virus risk; coronavirus status

This issue keeps coming up in online groups lately, if someone can get the corona virus from tea shipped from China.  The short answer:  of course not.  I'll add a longer answer and move on to more relevant concerns. 

As of February 11 this post adds a later study on different forms of coronavirus survival time-frames from the most recent studies on the subject, included at the end.

Here's an example discussion link from International Tea Talk, the group I moderate.  The short version of the best informed feedback is that viruses can only survive on hard surfaces like glass and steel for 24 to 48 hours, and on paper and cloth for 12 or less, and probably can't be transmitted for all of that time, likely losing that potential towards the end of those time-frames.  A package shipped for two or more days poses no risk.  The only exception is in the case of mucus serving as a support medium; if a vendor included a used tissue that might pose more risk.

Don't take my word for it; read this well-referenced Quora answer post by an immunologist, or this summary article.

Status of coronavirus, about opposing interpretations

Isn't it funny how all references online only claim this is probably the worst epidemic to occur since the Spanish flu just over 100 years ago (which killed something like 20-50 million people), or else that there is nothing to worry about.  Which is it?  Why couldn't a more balanced answer be in the middle, pointing towards a range of different outcomes, assessing probabilities?  This discussion comment sums that up (from this related post by a vendor):

In a war on attention, things are either relevant or not relevant, a threat or not a threat. Otherwise, it requires management and status upkeep. A complete difference in how your brain processes it and curates it to your personal social feed. This is the "why" it is communicated that way. But that doesn't get signal-boosted.

So it really has noting to do with the actual risk level, or likely outcome, it's about what people pay attention to.  If that comment is accurate, which seems the case to me.  As to current status, this is the best reference as to where the virus is and current mortality rate:

summary information as of February 4, 2020

How to place that?  The graph of spread of the virus might be more helpful:

That helps a little, but it's still hard to place.  The mortality rate seems to be the issue:  that current 2% mortality rate (426/20574) is much higher than for the typical flu, which is said to run around .1% in online discussions.  It's hard to get a clear reference number confirming that, but this Wikipedia table offers some input on pandemics:

The seasonal flu is already killing 300-650,000 people per year, at that .1% mortality rate (roughly).  The 2009 H1N1 pandemic alone killed 105-395,000 at around a .03% fatality rate (so all that much lower).

So there's the risk:  if the upper-side estimate for H1N1 exposure occurs in this case, 200 million, then 4 million people might be killed.  Of course treatment options would turn up long before the stats reached that level, just as "Tamiflu" came on the scene back in the 2009 case, and even completely ineffective containment efforts would offset some degree of exposure.

It's something to think through, but not necessarily the Biblical plague level concern the one reporting extreme makes it out to be.  If it evolves to spread more effectively and become more deadly that could still change.

Other concerns

This now-dated January 28 CNN article on the corona virus included this photo that changed my perspective on this subject:

Someone might think, that's crazy to wear a bottle and a mask, but look and think again.  Those are people dealing with fear, panic, and real risk.  There are people I care a great deal about living in China right now.  Even without that personal link they're still people, experiencing real health risk.  What if my daughter came to fear a disease that might kill her?

How to even put that in perspective though?  According to this recent CNBC article the flu has killed 10,000 people in the US alone this season, out of 19 million affected.  As that article points out the accuracy of the numbers of infected in China becomes critical; if 100,000 people have had that virus instead of the 20,000 confirmed that actual mortality rate drops by a factor of 5.

Eventually there is no response but to wait and see how this plays out, to make preparations but not overstate concerns.  Thai doctors are experimenting on the few test cases available, testing out drug coctails on them to see what's effective.  Ordinarily that would seem like sloppy methodology, in contrast with more extensive and careful research, but within these circumstances to me it seems commendable.

All that also seems to set aside what the Chinese people are experiencing now, which never has properly been considered in any media article I've yet to see.  The Australian bushfires made for a better story; very graphic, and relatable, happening to a people that seem a lot more familiar to Americans, English-speaking cousins, of a sort.  That 2019-20 bushfire season has killed at least 34 people so far; essentially as many as a bus accident, or four times the impact of Kobe Bryant's helicopter crash, in terms of body count.  Maybe people were instead concerned about the environmental impact, and the nearly countless animals that were killed?  It seems more likely it's just a story that played better; hell-scape images were more relatable than photos of frightened Chinese kids.

Maybe US citizens can better relate to the risk to themselves.  If 2% of the 19 million already affected with the flu had died at that 2% mortality rate that would be 380,000 deaths.  It would be them instead of Chinese people isolated in fear, wondering if the people around them might infect them.


Compassion and empathy really should become a bit more universal.  It's going to be hard to assess what should trigger that, given so many different horrors are causing so much impact day to day.  Here in Thailand we turn a blind eye to our own local traffic mortality statistics, because that's the real risk looming over daily life.  It helps where I live, in Bangkok, that gridlock prevents driving at speeds that would be fatal to a car passenger.  The air we breath also poses long term risk; inputs like that are hard to fully evaluate.

from my office yesterday, when air quality index readings were around 150; unhealthy

perspective is everything; with just a bit of zooming in air haze turns much milkier

This should end on a bright note, shouldn't it, given the dreary and fatalistic tone so far?  The worst case isn't that the world is coming to an end, and actual final impact should be limited, from this cause.

Human nature is the part that most disappoints me, and there are plenty of examples of bright, hopeful, effective souls out there making small changes for the better.  The malaise stemming from apathy and general stupidity often seems a much more significant factor, but the hopeless optimist in me accepts that darkness might only be a sign of impending dawn, or maybe even a positive cause that will bring it about.  Maybe the world might need drawn-out catastrophes like Donald Trump to improve.

We only need to think bigger, look deeper, clear a bit of mental clutter and wrong focus, to make the differences we can make.  And to raise up a next generation of heroes to do better where we failed.

Edit and update:

In discussing this online a contact mentioned another article estimating the maximum life-span for the coronavirus to live on hard surfaces:

Scientists Predict Coronavirus May Live For Up To Nine Days On Surfaces


A new analysis looking at data from different types of coronavirus has shown that many strains can live on surfaces such as glass, plastic or metal, for up to nine days.

The work published yesterday in The Journal of Hospital Infection looked at 22 historical studies on different types of coronavirus, such as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) coronaviruses...

...The review found that on average, coronaviruses can live on surfaces for between four and five days, but some could survive for up to nine days outside of the body at room temperature.

“Low temperature and high air humidity further increase their lifespan,” said Kampf.

It is important to note that the review article only took into account data from other types of coronaviruses like SARS and MERS to make their conclusions as no data of this type currently exists on nCoV2019, the strain in the current outbreak... 


That's not as bad as it sounds related to extending that estimated time viruses can survive on limited surfaces for 48 hours, since it still does relate to hard surfaces, on glass or metal, for example.  In the other references cited earlier there was a differentiation between the maximum time a virus might be tested as alive versus the more limited time a virus was likely to be viable enough to be transferred. 

And even if viruses could live on other surface types (eg. on paper), which isn't being claimed, it's unlikely that shipping conditions would provide the optimum low temperature and high humidity environment to enable them to survive longer.  Air freight shipping could involve quite low temperature but would probably also relate to very low humidity levels.

To me this changes nothing related to the prior conclusion here that packaged goods shipped out of China are completely safe.  It is interesting considering additional virus-specific information though.

While I'm at it I'll update virus impact status, as of February 11, from this main source:

It's still not time to panic yet but a week after this initial post it's still too early to predict how this situation will continue to evolve.

Comparing Yunnan Sourcing Liu Bao and Shou Pu'er

2012 Three Cranes 25017 Recipe Liu Bao

2016 "Golden Fruit" Menghai ripe / shou pu'er cake

Of course it would've been more descriptive to put what the teas actually are in the title, not the vendor name, but the word count runs long.  Here are the descriptions for a number of hei cha I recently purchased to get around to exploring the general type more (along with one black tea a friend recommended, the same friend that recommended the shou):

So there they are; one I'm comparing in this review is the first, a 2012 Three Cranes 25017 Recipe Liu Bao, and the other is a 2016 Menghai "Golden Fruit" Ripe Pu'er, or shou, as I tend to call the type .

I've tried the shou twice already; it's nice.  It would work to review these separately, but comparing them cuts the number of write-ups in half, and adds the direct comparison aspect.

Often comparison is about highlighting subtle distinctions, enabling appreciating something about a feel aspect, for example, or noticing a slight difference in complexity, but at first taste that's not how this is going to go; they'll be quite different.  It's probably mostly just about how I review but I tend to say more about feel and aftertaste aspects when doing individual reviews, and focus more on taste in comparison, as I see it because that level of detail is natural to notice first, and description of it already runs long.

The scent of the Liu Bao is earthy, musty even, like someone's basement.  Not the clean "game room" sort of environment, where there is wood paneling and the old version of living room furniture and a pool table down there, it smells like a musty cob-web covered storage place for jarred food.  It'll be fine though; I don't mean that as saying it's not nice tea.

The shou is good.  I can go ahead and pass on some prior impression before tasting notes.  There is no mustiness to it, it's not overly earthy, no petroleum or tar, and definitely no fishiness.  It's smooth and rich, full in flavor, but to me not necessarily complex in the sense of lots of distinct aspects coming across.  I mostly just get "shou" range from it.  It's good though; well balanced, complex, smooth, and sweet.  The effect reminds me a little of that rich earthiness in Guinness Stout, just not quite as creamy, which to me is very positive.  It's especially nice for containing no negative aspects or roughness at all, so you can drink it at any infusion strength, even really thick, which I just confirmed the second time I tried it.

the shou ("ripe") label

Some background

These posts really do go long enough as it is but I wanted to mention a couple of things first.  Someone reviewed this shou version in a Yunnan Sourcing Fans FB group, and that makes for a good chance to pass on another impression, especially given how developed a flavor-list description was in that:


Nose is wonderfully complex for such a young shu puer: sweet and malty, leather, wet bark, dried figs, brown sugar, caramel are some of the things that come to mind. There is a hint of peach, but it's very subtle and it disappears after a few steepings. Taste is full and creamy, with notes of dark chocolate, licorice, wood and hazelnuts.


I tend to either avoid reading other reviews before trying a tea (most typically), or in some rare cases I intentionally do, but this was in the middle, since I read it by chance a week before first trying the tea and two weeks before this write-up.  For better or worse with my memory that means it wasn't accessible to me in doing this tasting since lots of lists of things, names, and numbers just don't stick for me.  Abstract concepts, events, and personal interactions do; funny how that works.

This is a good place to pass on the Yunnan Sourcing product description too:


The idea was to create a peach taste in the ripe pu-erh.  At this early stage it's hard to taste peach but there is a fruitiness thats developing in the tea and that long-lasting feeling in the mouth that transforms into sweet on the tongue.

Reminds me a little like that hui gan post theme even though it's not really about the same idea.  I may as well pass on the other Liu Bao product description while I'm at it, which goes into storage conditions:

25017 is the recipe number for this traditional medium level fermented Liu Bao tea from the oldest producer of Liu Bao in Guangxi (Three Cranes / Wuzhou Tea Factory)...  The 25017 is wet piled for about 29 days, which is typical for classical Liu Bao.  The result is a liu bao with some bitter, sweet, chocolate and betel nut flavors.  It's got an obvious "chen xiang" (old taste) due to classic style processing and 5 years in hot and humid Wuzhou storage condition.  This has been stored since 2012 and then in 2014 packed into 15 kilogram baskets. The wet storage conditions in Wuzhou have fast aged this tea, but at the same time the tea is not funky or moldy.

comparing dry versions; shou left, Liu Bao right

Review

On to actual review then.  In order to see all of what's going on with these I'll taste the initial infusion (the rinse) but it would probably be a good idea to always do a quick rinse that you don't drink with shou and aged sheng.  I've cited a research article in a post about factors in fermentation that covers one reason why before, about them containing some traces of toxins as output of the two related fermentation processes (related to a role played by fungus and bacteria in both shou and aged sheng).  That's perhaps not exactly standard fermentation, related to another good source description, since the process is based on air contact, but lets stick with that instead of a term that means nothing to most people (microbial ripening, described in that Tea Geek blog article).

I'll start the review on the second infusion, starting out brewing the two teas on the light side.


Liu Bao:  I'm getting a good bit of "damp basement" from this tea, as the scent suggested.  It really takes me back to my brother and sister and I locking each other in a potato storage cave-like basement area in an old house we lived in when I was young (in PA), one of the mustiest places I've ever been.  Oddly that's not all bad.  Beyond the damp earth and mildew tastes mushroom or some other type of fungus comes across next.  That last part is like the scent of the half-moon shaped fungus that grows on trees; earthy in a unique sense.  The tea has redeeming aspects and character, and I suspect it will clean up a bit after another couple of infusions.  There is some sweetness to it, and richness, and other depth, and it comes across as more "clean" than it probably sounds.  At this point in the infusion cycle it's hard to summarize the overall experience as "I like it" but the tea seems to have potential to show more.

The shou is earthy but very clean in comparison.  There's a molasses-like sweetness that really compliments the complex range of other earthier aspects.  It doesn't remind me of peat much at all, as some shou tends to, certainly not of mildew or fungus.  One aspect is towards walnut or roasted chestnut.  Some of the range is a bit towards forest floor, but a clean version of it, the dry-leaf style of an autumn forest, not the damper and peat-like character of a spring forest.  The complexity extends a good bit from there, it's just hard to split into components.

It's hard for me to compare against other better shou I've tried since the two other shou versions I've bought this year weren't quite this good (a standard type of brick and a tuocha).  I think the brick version could potentially have expressed a bit more range of complexity but then that tea, a three year Kunming (aka CNNP, formerly) 7581 brick, tasted a good bit like tar or oil; not really what everyone is looking for in aspects.


Per one take once a shou loses the initial fermentation effect off flavors after a couple of years they don't transition that much.  Per an opposing take they do keep changing and developing over time.  I don't have lots of opinion on that, or enough experience for it to follow clear trends based on what I've tried.  I compared multiple years of one classic shou version quite awhile back (7572 cakes, with those listed in the YS page here, or with a little about that in this post) but attributed the differences to yearly differences in versions, and had little to go on for shou exposure at that point.  More so now but I guess there are levels to that; this is the third I've reviewed this year and I'll probably leave off them for awhile.

shou left, Liu Bao right (both a bit thick looking)

Second infusion

The infusion time was relatively fast, 20-some seconds, but these teas still brewed to be thick looking, a dark reddish brown.  I might try a flash infusion next time to experience them thinner.  I've tested this shou at ridiculous brewed strength the second time I tried it (earlier), going with a really high proportion and even longer times, and it works well across the whole range of however you make it.  Sometimes teasing individual flavor aspects apart for description works better lighter, and I guess personal preference steers what range is most enjoyable, for me different for different teas.  I don't prefer most tea types as strong as possible, and some work lots better much lighter, even without brewing around astringency or whatever else as a factor, but I do tend to like shou on the thick side.

The Liu Bao is cleaning up in character, although it would still be one of the earthiest and mustiest teas I've ever tried as it comes across now.  But it's still nice; cleaner, with good complexity, lots going on.  I think I like it more because of the novelty than the aspects range.  The richness in taste extends a bit towards coffee, maybe leaving off a little short of that, closer to tree bark.  The mustiness has backed off so it's just a supporting aspect, not so negative since I don't mind it.  With the flavor range "cleaner" it comes across as sweeter.  There's a little wild mushroom in flavor but it's not so much tree fungus now as portabello mushroom.  I suspect the tea will really show it's potential in the next infusion.  I wouldn't be surprised if the bark moves just a little into spice, but we'll see.

The shou isn't so different than the last infusion, maybe just a little cleaner and sweeter, but still grounded in a subdued earthiness and complex.  Sorry about contradicting myself related to that, but in one sense it's rich and thick and complex, and in another perhaps a little thinner and simpler than it might be.  Writing literal contradictions might not really seem descriptive.  The taste level is full enough, but there is some range it might be hitting that it doesn't get to, and the feel could be a little fuller, but it is fine as it is.  For a very reasonably priced tea it's quite good.  It is strange to hold a tea to perform up to a price level, and not just examine it for what's there.  I think the same yardstick applies to the Liu Bao, as I remember pricing; it compares well to expectations for teas that don't cost a lot, to the extent one is on that page for evaluation, although that type of musty earthiness wouldn't be for everyone.

I like this shou brewed at this relatively conventional infusion strength but somehow it sort of makes sense to double it, as I did the last time I tried it.  Maybe that's only because it's possible, because it doesn't have any negative aspects that would also double, more than as a criticism about it gaining the effect of complexity and intensity at higher than average brewed strength.

Third infusion

This time I did infuse the teas for about ten seconds, not really a flash infusion but on the short side.

The Liu Bao is the best it's came across prepared this way, which I suspect is as much due to prior rinsing as being prepared lighter.  That earthiness might not really drift towards spice but it's cleaner yet.  It comes across a lot more in the range of tree bark than fungus now.  I suppose others might be split on the complexity really relating to forest floor versus a clean version of peat.  It has a compensating sweetness, and mineral tones, and I suppose with enough interpretation someone could taste out a dried fruit aspect of some sort in it, maybe dried persimmon.  It all works.  It would be way too earthy for a lot of people's preferences but I like it.  I probably wouldn't want to drink it all the time but I could imagine it working as a breakfast tea, or with an afternoon snack, a tea you don't need to focus on that would pair well with some compensating sweet food.

Trying the tea later, in a tasting after this first round, this Liu Bao tasted exactly like brewing charcoal to me.  Now I wonder if it transitioned to that across the infusion cycle or if I completely missed that "mineral" I just mentioned tasting like brewed coals, like carbon.  That's one reason why it's better to try teas a few times for review instead of just writing notes on the first go:  beyond separating out one or two more vague aspects it is possible to completely overlook a primary taste, or "feel" aspect.  The shou doesn't really change.  It doesn't lose much for being prepared quite lightly, although I'd naturally tend to make it a lot stronger.  


The idea of preparing these lighter supporting ease of breaking apart flavor aspects isn't working, but per usual the chaotic background in this house isn't helping with that either.  As a tea-friend put it, tasting works best in a meditative space.  My son has some idea about playing he wants to get to, and my daughter just stamped me three times, the kind that they put on letters, or to show paid entrance to a bar.  But it's the noise that's worse relating to focusing.

she seems low on ink

Anyway, this shou is drifting a little into a spice range, like the darker cinnamon a Rou Gui can show, but still light, with plenty of sweetness.  The sweetness reminds me of caramel, but that could as easily be toffee, or molasses.  I suppose it could taste just a little like peach.  It has a brightness to it, versus a heavier tone one might expect.  The range that is there is quite positive; if there is a weakness to the tea it might be that range not suiting preference, or that it could be a bit more complex.

shou left, Liu Bao right

Fourth infusion

Apparently I really do need to go play so this will be it for the tasting cycle but I think these teas have a good bit more to show.  I'll go longer on this infusion to see how that works out, more like 45 seconds versus 10 the last time, after just under 30 the others.

It's interesting how much that changed the character of the Liu Bao; I take back that guess about the rinsing being a bigger factor than infusion strength; both seem to be factors.  An underlying trace of mustiness remains but this tea is now mostly just earthy, and intense, at least at this infusion strength.  Instead of tree bark this now reminds me of the scent of very old aged wood, of how a 100 year old barn smells.  I could imagine people hating that but I can kind of connect with it.  It's probably cleaner in effect than it sounds.  The tea is also complex, in a sense, but a list isn't coming to mind.  With mineral on one "lower" layer and sweetness on a higher end the aged wood and tree bark fill that in, not really extending into spice much, maybe a little towards an earthier root spice, that hard to pin down range of ginseng, for example.  It must have tasted like charcoal at this point but later infusions went to straight charcoal.

that one trouble maker

The shou is the same; that's going to save on some words.  And I've nothing really to add or conclude at this point in tasting; I liked it.

Conclusion / one more experiment

It's a bit insane but I tried out cold brewing the shou based on trying it yesterday, to get the last of a round of infusions out of it.  In reading up on fluoride levels in tea--there's low risk related to overexposure to that, don't worry--one set of tests said that using a very long infusion time is a good way to extract a lot of it out of tea.  Old tea plant leaves have the most fluoride content by far, per hearsay with that working out to much higher levels in some types of hei cha.  So I might've just been dosed with lots of fluoride.  Per all that research plant leaves from the newest leaves and buds contain the lowest levels and I do tend to drink teas made from those regularly.


The shou is interesting (the other version, from yesterday, the cold-brewed tea).  It's really sweet for some reason; I might even finally be getting that peach.  The taste range is in between fruit and root beer.  It's different; worth a try.  It's strange drinking the tea cold, after the past hour of hot tea tasting in the same general range.  Somehow it makes a lot more intuitive sense to drink other teas cold, black tea, of course, or lighter oolong, but this being as sweet and light as it is helps it to work.  It's not an overly earthy shou brewed hot anyway.

It's also strange tasting the cold version right beside the hot version (a bit cool now; this is taking forever with all the messing around).  It could just be me, or that the cold version was relatively brewed out prior to spending the night in the fridge, but a different aspect range seems to come across a the different temperatures.

As for other conclusions, about the Liu Bao versus the shou, both were nice.  I think I probably liked that Thai Liu Bao I tried not so long ago better, maybe partly since mustiness wasn't a factor in that.  This one is still interesting to me, and generally positive, I just wouldn't want to drink it very often.  Probably the 100 grams worth I have will be enough, or 50 might have been ok, and I can share some.  A Malaysian online friend is really into Liu Bao (which also goes by Luk Bok there), the same one that passed on that input about "gan" in discussion of lui gan in a recent post.  If something comes of input from him versus a standard range of aspects versus what I'm describing I'll pass than on.

About Yunnan Sourcing and international shipping

If any readers aren't familiar with Yunnan Sourcing--which would seem a little odd, to have never heard of them--it would be a good idea to check some of those vendor page links.  They sell an incredible range of teas, lots of types beyond pu'er, so the focus isn't on curating a limited theme of offerings.  To find out more about specific teas places like personal blogs, that Yunnan Sourcing group page, or Steepster could provide additional feedback about them.  It's hard to know how to take one person's opinion based on only reading about unfamiliar tea versions, since preferences and expectations vary, but comparing a few opinions helps counter that.


There was just a discussion about shipping issues in that FB group, related to the timing communicated not getting the point across (they are based in Yunnan, China).  I mention it here since it helps fill in expectations related to buying teas directly from overseas.  Most discussion and comments were about the estimated delivery time descriptions in the options being generally accurate.  Mine came faster than the estimate, but then I live in Bangkok; we're neighbors.


Someone just commented elsewhere that shipping from China to the US costs $22 for a 600 gram package, in case that's helpful, but the way that site is set up there are multiple options, with faster versions costing more, and slower versions less.  At a guess that rate would be for a medium time-frame delivery.  It doesn't seem to matter so much to me if tea takes two weeks versus a month to make a trip but the estimated range for slowest "surface" delivery (sending it by boat), is 36 to 61 business days, and that could test one's patience.  I suppose it's worth considering that it's also the most environmentally friendly option.

I'm guessing this range is for a good bit of tea (credit YS Fan group post)