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Kenneth lower left, Valeri upper right (photo credit Ralph) |
Kind of strange to put it off for living in Thailand, but we finally had guests join from here during an online meetup. They were Kenneth of Monsoon Tea Company and Valeri of Tea Side, two of the main tea sources in Thailand, as I see it (both based out of Chiang Mai). There is one main mall shop here in Bangkok, Tea Dee, and beyond that Chinatown shops stand out most.
Since this was kind of an introduction a lot of what I'll include as summary here I will have posted before, but it would've been scattered over about four years of writing about both of these sources. I'll go ahead and repeat it, and link to some of that.
Kenneth and Monsoon
Kenneth promotes tea production from wild forest sources, the sustainability theme that ties to that (as he summarized in a Tedx talk here, and written up in this blog here). It's a great idea, and it's odd that it's not more common a theme than it is. Tea (variety Assamica) has been growing throughout a very broad region for a very long time, throughout Yunnan, Assam, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam. It's "wild" in the sense that no one is farming it, but the ties to earlier agriculture aren't completely clear. People almost certainly played a role in that earlier spread, so it could probably fairly be regarded as feral instead of wild, in terms of naturally occurring. The full history is still being discovered.
Kenneth's intro to the others included the idea that the forest origin teas have a distinctive flavor and character, all familiar ground to me for reviewing versions for years. They tend to include a bit of sourness. That can be really off-putting if you associate sourness with tea spoiling due to damp storage, or a processing flaw, but really in this case it seems to tie to distinctive plant genetics, related to those mixing with taliensis or other inputs, or just genetic drift over time. It's not as bad as it sounds; flavors can be floral and complex beyond that.
I was hoping we could push so far into discussion to get to why that comes up, if there's more cause to be cited than "genetic mixing or drift." Tea Side sells a wild origin "Lord of the Forest" sheng version from Myanmar that's not sour at all, which was really nice. And I've tried an exceptional Yongde (Yunnan) wild version from Moychay this year that also wasn't, and a nice Xiaguan version, and Laos and Vietnam forest-origin teas generally aren't like that. It could just be that plant genetics vary, not an especially satisfying answer, but that's probably how cause identification is going to go.
Kenneth mentioned that black tea, green, and oolong work out best so they produce mostly that. From time to time writing here I bring up a really unusual (and very sour) local wild sheng version that the owner of Jip Eu made (Kittichai, that Chinatown shop owner). I bought a second cake of that tea so that I could spread out drinking the first one over a few years and then keep on tasting it. So far it's not changing that much. Every time I drink it for the first few rounds I'm deciding if I really like it, and then for a long sequence of later rounds I decide that I do.
I think adjusting to sourness relates to unlearning an established expectation, so that people not so into specialty tea could adapt quicker (related to Kenneth's input that experienced chefs love his wild-origin teas, more so than tea enthusiasts). That would be like acclimating to bitterness in sheng; people tend to not love it right away, unless other exposure has prepared them to be open to that, for example a love of pale ales. Then later that bitterness seems positive, a nice balancing input along with the sweetness and other flavor range.
We talked about blends, which they sell more of than plain teas. The reason for that is pragmatic; their main customer base had been tourists, and that was in demand. They started as a Chiang Mai tourist area cafe and shop and have expanded to here as well (Bangkok). I don't drink much for flavored teas or blends but two of the best versions I've ever tried were from them, a mango flavored oolong (ok, that was really longan and mangosteen), and coconut flavored black tea. I think that black tea experience reminded me of Christmas enough to draw on sentimentality as a positive input. The quality of both was good too; you can tell when the tea is good quality and the flavoring also is. Kenneth said that using less flavoring and higher quality tea represent a pattern previously more common in European teas, now replaced by using more flavoring and the cheapest tea versions available, for obvious reasons, to maximize margin.
Kenneth made an interesting point about how not only is tea experience embedded in a culture, but an immediate experience makes more sense there. He said that drinking a strong and sweet gunpowder green tea with mint is a great experience in Morocco, but that it wouldn't necessarily translate, trying the same tea elsewhere. And the same for masala chai in India, and so on; the experiences connect with the locations.
It leads to considering what the local experience should be for Bangkok (where I live). Sitting in a Chinatown cafe, like Double Dogs, or visiting a shop there, like Jip Eu, where I first met Kenneth, and trying out Wuyi Yancha (Fujian roasted oolong) would work. Even though they're not so common a flavored rolled oolong from Monsoon could make the cut. It would be great to visit the growing areas around Chiang Rai and try some fresh rolled oolongs in that hilly setting; I've never done that.
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Doi Mae Salong (Chiang Rai area), photo from Alex Phanganovich |
Valeri of Tea Side
Tea Side is on a different range of product scale, turning up the best Thai teas I've tried from any source, by a fairly significant margin. They do sell some Taiwanese style oolongs, a main standard type in Thailand, but they focus more on sheng and shu ("not pu'er," since it's from here), and Dian Hong style black teas, including a lot of aged versions of those. Valeri really appreciates the body-feel aspect of teas, "cha qi." I'm at the opposite end of the scale for "getting" that, so this won't say a lot more about that theme.
He mentioned an interest in seeking out the oldest teas available in this country. Some that Tea Side list are from the 80s to mid 2000s, with historical background and more on the Hong Tai Chang productions here. And he also covered a bit about shu fermentation experimentation, a small-batch theme, (with his process description here, a review of two Tea Side versions here, and other background on that theme here). His results and versions are good.
I'm partly in the "shu is shu" camp, seeing that as one of the narrowest character / aspect range tea types there is, but of course it varies. I don't just mean flawed or not flawed, still showing fermentation related rough edges or odd mustiness; it varies within the very positive range too. I like shu (and hei cha), I just like sheng better.
His sheng holds its own with Yunnan range tea. Pretty good sub-theme range too; I don't mean that it's well above generic sheng coming out of China, it's a good bit better than decent, probably in the upper half of the range of boutique teas. I say more about that in reviews here, or I think the TeaDB guys have tried some of his versions (they are reliable, and their video form content is much nicer, much less work to experience).
What else? We didn't get so far describing the rest of Thai teas, and there isn't that much that's simple to say. At some point the backstory only goes so far and then it's about trying teas. Valeri mentioned that the tea tradition in Thailand goes way back, I forget the year he mentioned, but around a 1940 time-frame. Most likely that's a known range for well established production, and local and informal practices were around a very long time before that. Kenneth would add that people have been eating tea locally for a very long time, which I take to be accurate, even though I've never given that one text covering the history of tea a close read (Tale of Tea?).
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trying miang (cured tea) at the Asok Monsoon branch |
We talked a little about the history of tea in Russia, asking about his take on Bronislav Vinogrodskiy, one influential tea tradition founder there, who we just met online. That ran through scope I've covered in other posts, about older ties to China being replaced by Ceylon trade and a different style of black tea, with plenty of influence of drinking local tisanes. Only in the last 40 years has that developed into embracing traditional Chinese teas and more formal preparation practices.
I like the history of tea, processing background, cultural considerations, and information about plant genetics, but in the end I'm more interested in the experience of different teas. I should add just a bit about my favorites from both vendors, since this is as much about background I already experienced than that discussion (with the two not separate).
My favorites related to both vendors
To me the Monsoon "wild" teas are ok, but novelty and that story line have to factor in to add appeal. Their flavored teas really are the best I've ever tried, which isn't much of a broad perspective, since I actively avoid trying teas from that broad category. One forest-source white tea I tried from them was really nice before; odd those dropped out. They've also been ramping up kombucha production; I have almost the least exposure possible to that but it seemed nice to me. All in all they are well worth visiting, here in Bangkok or up in Chiang Mai.
Tea Side range is more the page I'm on, Chinese tea, with focus on Yunnan scope. And it's pretty good versions of those. Pricing could be regarded as a down-side for the higher end of their range, but that's normal; high-demand and limited availability teas tend to cost a good bit, for all types and source areas. A gui fei really stood out, a rolled variation on Oriental Beauty. That was most of it, thinking back to what was nice beyond sheng, shu, and Dian Hong style black (with an interesting aged range of those available). One green tea was one of the best I've ever tried (this one); that's strange, since I mostly only prefer Longjing within green tea scope.
Other Taiwan-style rolled oolong from them is good, as I remember, just slightly better than the main plantation versions. But in general the best of that oolong range from Vietnam eclipses the best from Thailand, and better Taiwanese versions are on a slightly higher scale. And an even higher scale for pricing too, for those seeing that as a main concern. One might wonder if terroir issues don't complicate what I've presented as a direct comparison here, and that does factor in.
In talking to Valeri about that last issue, that the best Taiwanese oolongs are a lot better than the best Thai versions, he is inclined to disagree, and sees the best of what he sells as on-par. I've not tried enough of his to be clear on placing that. To be honest I'm not a great reference for the best Taiwanese high mountain oolongs either; I've tried what I've tried, and the best of those were significantly better than the best Thai versions that I tried. To some extent preference for local terroir related character must offset the potential for making a blanket quality level judgement.
I like to think that I can identify quality level by standard aspect parameters (complexity, intensity, sweetness, mouthfeel and aftertaste aspects, flavor matching standard type, absence of flaws, etc.), and can go slightly beyond that to pick out some aspects that act as "quality markers" for many types. But preference and judgement factors in, and I don't see myself as an authority on that. I tend to agree with almost all of what Valeri has expressed about his teas that I have tried (factoring in normal bias and marketing spin), so to me that's a factor, lending some extra credibility to that input.
Back on the broader scale those guys are both really nice to talk to, both very personable and genuine. All the talks have been positive, really, but often they feel comfortable, like talking to people you already know, and this was like that. I've met Kenneth a few times so I should feel that way, but I mean beyond that, related to Valeri and my friends' feedback.
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