Wawee Tea 2023 gushu Thai sheng

 

An earlier version related to this has been one of my favorites, and this might be as well.  It's from Wawee Tea (also here or here), so from Wawee, the main sheng production area outside of Chiang Rai.  I won't be sharing a lot of backstory here; it's presented as Thai sheng (pu'er-style tea) from old plant material.  Those links tell more of their story.

I loved the version last year for matching my own preference so closely.  The same is true of Aphiwat's version I've been discussing, and one from Moychay wasn't so different.  I think from repeatedly trying sheng versions from Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, and Vietnam the general style range has evolved to become my main tea preference, with the narrower set of aspects in those few the closest match.  

I expect this will be a little closer to conventional Yunnan versions than the one from Aphiwat was, but that material seemed to be quite good quality, so maybe not better in that regard.  His tea had an unusual plant or flower stem edge to it, a flavor that didn't pair with an astringency aspect as much as I would've expected, since the feel was rich but not rough or structured.  It also had amazing intensity, complexity, durability, and sweetness, along with substantial bitterness.  It's too hard to explain here but I don't think it's a type that's well-suited for aging, that it's perhaps as positive as it would ever be this year or next.  Since it's such a personal favorite while still young that's not as much of a limitation.

This will be related in flavor range, I expect, but without as much of that one unusual edge.  I would expect it to include less fruit range and more floral tones, based on last year's version, with bitterness level not so different, and feel different but in a way that's not simple to describe, more structured, fuller in feel.  Never mind all that; this will be about this tea, not comparison to others, but if it helps define an aspect or transition expectation I'll get into that.  

As to what comes before the brewed tea experience the appearance is just beautiful, as in the photos, and the smell is sweet, complex, fragrant, and floral.  This is pressed a bit tight; that adds a little challenge in separating out a bit to brew, more care in not breaking up leaves.  With a now more conventional loose pressing you can just push in the pick or knife from any direction and flake off a chunk of about the size you want.  It'll slow aging transition slightly too, but otherwise it makes no difference.  It's still much easier to separate off the tea than for older style factory cakes, more broken material pressed just as hard, which are looser and easier to access than iron cake versions, or typical tuochas. 

I'm trying this on day 4 out of 5 of a fast; I've not eaten in 3 1/2 days.  That won't change much.  It's generally better not to drink most of a liter of sheng on a completely empty stomach but it'll be alright.  I drank some salt water earlier, a sodium and potassium mix, which isn't nearly as good a stomach buffer as toast or cereal, but it will have to do.

Review:  

First infusion:  I let this brew about 15 seconds because I skipped a rinse step; that's a judgement call.  It would've infused better with a rinse, and I'd skip saying "this is still a bit light," but it is still throwing out the tea.  This will brew about 15 infusions, most likely, a half dozen more than I'll drink in a sitting, so that would've made sense.  It's still a bit light; I gave half to a nearby plant to continue on making better notes.  Of course it's as I already described it, sweet, floral, complex, seemingly well balanced.

Second infusion:  that's it!  Sweetness and flavor intensity pick way up; I can start brewing this faster and lighter.  A honey-like flavor note stands out; it's always nice when it works out like that.  There is good warmth to these flavor tones for being so young.  I would generally expect it to be a little more oxidized than is typical in that case, implied by the mix of colors in the dried leaves.  The darker yellow brewed liquid and mix of brown on the wet leaves would also more or less confirm that.  For a version intended for long aging that's probably more negative than positive, but if someone plans to drink this within the first 2 or 3 years it can be more positive than negative.  

The character right now is fantastic; no complaints.  Then it's complicated and hard to sort out how a mix of varying extra oxidation level works out, if this really will age well, even long term, because many of the leaves are as green as could be. 

Bitterness level is still considerable, but still in the middle of the scale in relation to typical Menghai versions.  Floral range seems to stand out, but there is plenty more going on with this.  The warm honey tone ties to mineral tones across a lighter and heavier scale, and to other warm flavor range that could be towards spice.  To me the main flavor range, which is complex, and hard to break apart, combines both floral and fruit range.  

It's almost a bit citrusy, or actually is, not in one distinct form (lemon, orange, tangerine), but I would expect that to evolve and seem to link to different range across infusions.  This is a lot like the version I really loved earlier this year (last year's tea, and I think most of a year of aging transition amounted to a lot more than it would've in a cooler and drier place, when I tried it in February or so).

I suspect that a lot of South East Asian teas are slightly more oxidized than Yunnan versions not just because they don't process them quickly enough, but because it's pretty warm and humid across a lot of the entire region (not so much at elevation in northern Laos and Vietnam, but maybe even there in comparison with a lot of Yunnan).  Everything changes quickly as a result; cereal can get stale still in the factory sealed packaging, and leaving partly brewed tea out overnight doesn't go as well as elsewhere.  A picked fresh leaf would oxidize a little pretty fast.

third infusion:  it's so good!  That one flavor input, like honey, is probably closer to how beeswax smells, warm, rich, and sweet.  A citrus edge warms up a little too, with other range I interpret as floral just as strong or stronger.  Feel and aftertaste work together to support a more complex experience, in this case in a very positive form.  It's rich and full, with a good bit of structure, and the bitter edge carries over to sweetness plus the other flavors trailing in aftertaste.  Sometimes that effect can be even stronger; there is plenty of flavor experience a minute after drinking this tea, but for some versions it really goes on and on, sometimes seemingly even stronger than the actual flavor.

I'm saying that the citrus is warm in tone, but this might cover both a warmer tangerine range and lighter lemon input.  It makes it come across as complex and satisfying, since that's only part of the range.  

The version from Aphiwat extended to ripe and sweet pineapple, related to a fresh fruit version that wouldn't be familiar to most people in the US.  Even if you try an exported fresh pineapple most plant types are sweet, citrusy, and intense but a little harsh, and other types here express a much warmer tone.  That's like a branded version "Maui Gold," I guess (which sounds like a weed strain).  Anyway this is different, more broad range citrus, honey and beeswax, and floral tones.  A vegetal input is harder to place, maybe like a bit of green wood, not dominant, but there in the mix.

fourth infusion:  I should've backed off my normal 8 gram or so proportion; without food in my stomach I might be able to drink a couple more rounds but will only get halfway through this infusion cycle, at best.  This tea will be great in the afternoon but for doing a relaxed day while fasting I don't need to get blasted on caffeine.  I have some errands to run; it'll help with that.

Intensity stands out in this experience (with the flavor set not transitioning quickly, so I won't add much about that).  I think that's part of what I like about sheng, what I'm acclimated to.  Probably if I would "get" the cha qi / body feel part more that would be intense too.  When fasting energy levels tend to go all over the place, and sitting in a dark room is enough to bring on a crash, while doing something outside can trigger the opposite, great physical and mental energy and clarity.

Finishing this cup is probably all I'll have for now.  My stomach still feels ok but the continual deep emptiness I've felt for days has shifted in form, warning me not to keep going.  I'm sweating in a different way.  I bet a couple of interesting late transitions would tell more of the story of this tea; maybe I can make notes over the next few hours as I get to those.

re-tasting two days later (I didn't make more notes):  this won't be round by round, but I will add some thoughts, about re-trying the tea when I'm back out of fasting (I finished 5 full days last evening; that went ok).  No change related to that factor, that I could tell.

I like the tea, in a style closer to conventional Yunnan versions than Aphiwat's.  Bitterness isn't so different, but feel might have just a little more feel structure, and give up a little for sweetness level.  Lighter mineral tones are stronger, which together with the feel makes it come across as a little drier.  It seems like unusual flavor range in Aphiwat's version is replaced by a more standard floral range in this.  

This tea might be better to drink a year or two later, to rest and settle a bit, and let the rough edges wear off, and flavor deepen.  I didn't buy that earler Wawee Tea sheng version this year until late January / early Feb. or so, coming up on a year after production, which is only three months from now, but drank more in March and April.  This character seems ok for longer aging too, drinking this as a 15 year old version, but I don't think Aphiwat's tea would have great potential for that kind of longevity.

They sent me some maocha from 2017, so 6 1/2 year old tea, and of course I can't assume that the starting point was quite similar, but it will inform part of how this might age.

Flavor list interpretation would always vary a good bit, so the comprehensive, round by round flavors list--mostly missing here--might not be so meaningful anyway.  To help make that point here are tasting notes from that friend that visited here, John Lim, for Aphiwat's sheng, which I've described as floral with some fruit, and a plant stem related bitterness:

Gushu material, viscous and mellow.

I get ginger , lemongrass and wildflowers. Relatively sweet as well.

Subsequent brews bring out its bitter nature as well.

This tea feels like life in the mountains. Filled with herbs, grass and wildflowers. Bitter sweet life experiences.

More poetic than my writing; nice!  Lemongrass makes sense, which I've interpreted differently, as citrus range or pineapple.  Floral we both agreed on (I just didn't narrow it further), and the plant-stem, slightly edgy input could be an interpretation of bitterness overlapping with herbal nature.  Herbs tend to not taste like plant stem, usually covering a warmer range, but I've described that warm rich tone as relating to honey, if I remember right, or maybe that was beeswax.  It seems to be about breaking down a very complex and broad range of flavors into sets that match foods, floral, or vegetal experiences, which themselves are often not one dimensional, so sort of equivalent sets can vary a lot.

Later I tried Aphiwat's tea brewed Western style and it did taste a lot more like ginger and lemongrass; it's odd how combining what would be a lot of Gongfu infusion range together can change things.  Or maybe it was all related to suggestion, expecting that, then noticing it?

Also if you brew any tea much lighter or stronger it will emphasize a different range, related to flavor and other aspects.  Judging from the look of John's brewing--a photo--he used about half the proportion of tea leaf, a more conservative and sensible 4 or 5 grams per 100 ml instead of 8 or so, which would make it much easier to dial in lighter infusions, probably using longer infusion times.

I've just screwed up brewing this tea in a way that highlights that, writing these second trial notes.  While typing I let a round brew too long (nearly 30 seconds?), and then will often brew a flash-infused round to mix with that, instead of diluting tea with water.  Tasting the stronger in comparison with the fast-brewed round they're completely different, and not just in terms of intensity, also differing flavor aspects come through.  The light one is too wispy to make it out clearly, but just a touch stronger would make the point better.  Mixing the two rounds lands closer to an optimum, in a form that's far different than both tried separately. 

Sweetness has been picking up in this tea, and bitterness easing off; this is what I really valued in the other version last year (this overall experience, not that particular transition pattern).  Still, if this rests for 6 more months--or a year or two--it will be that bit more approachable, requiring less dialing in for infusion process.  

I have a few cakes now around 4 years old that are coming out the other side of that somewhat young but more settled range, not getting better every year now, fading some but well short of the broader character transition onto being aged.  Essentially all of those I don't own enough of to make waiting out another decade of transition such an attractive prospect.  I'll probably work on finishing most of them, leaving only tea I bought enough extra to age-transition around to wait out that longer cycle.  I can't finish all the half-consumed cakes I own now in a few months, or even half a year; I mean I'll work towards that.

One last point comes to mind, that I've tried 10 year old dry stored teas that are less fermentation transitioned than teas tend to be here after 3 years.  All of these times and stages I'm citing depend on the particular storage input, in addition to the tea character starting point, which I did say a little about.

Is this tea as good as Aphiwat's, or better or worse?  Just different.  Maybe I prefer his a little more, but I think the opposite would be true trying both as two year old versions, and they might be pretty even next year.  Related to long term aging potential I expect this has much more.  All that is just guesses though.  I've tried a somewhat aged version from them before (I should link to that, right?), and I'll post another within another week or so.

my company for tasting again. two marks on her are actually heart shaped.

so green in the rainy season

the other garden

impressive, but spanning across a walkway.  since it's a Buddhist household he gets to use the space.

Monsoon and Tea Side Thai tea discussion

 

Kenneth lower left, Valeri upper right (photo credit Ralph)

Kind of strange to put it off for living in Thailand, but we finally had guests join from here during an online meetup.  They were Kenneth of Monsoon Tea Company and Valeri of Tea Side, two of the main tea sources in Thailand, as I see it (both based out of Chiang Mai).  There is one main mall shop here in Bangkok, Tea Dee, and beyond that Chinatown shops stand out most. 

Since this was kind of an introduction a lot of what I'll include as summary here I will have posted before, but it would've been scattered over about four years of writing about both of these sources.  I'll go ahead and repeat it, and link to some of that.

Kenneth and Monsoon

Kenneth promotes tea production from wild forest sources, the sustainability theme that ties to that (as he summarized in a Tedx talk here, and written up in this blog here).  It's a great idea, and it's odd that it's not more common a theme than it is.  Tea (variety Assamica) has been growing throughout a very broad region for a very long time, throughout Yunnan, Assam, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam.  It's "wild" in the sense that no one is farming it, but the ties to earlier agriculture aren't completely clear.  People almost certainly played a role in that earlier spread, so it could probably fairly be regarded as feral instead of wild, in terms of naturally occurring.  The full history is still being discovered.

Kenneth's intro to the others included the idea that the forest origin teas have a distinctive flavor and character, all familiar ground to me for reviewing versions for years.  They tend to include a bit of sourness.  That can be really off-putting if you associate sourness with tea spoiling due to damp storage, or a processing flaw, but really in this case it seems to tie to distinctive plant genetics, related to those mixing with taliensis or other inputs, or just genetic drift over time.  It's not as bad as it sounds; flavors can be floral and complex beyond that.

I was hoping we could push so far into discussion to get to why that comes up, if there's more cause to be cited than "genetic mixing or drift."  Tea Side sells a wild origin "Lord of the Forest" sheng version from Myanmar that's not sour at all, which was really nice.  And I've tried an exceptional Yongde (Yunnan) wild version from Moychay this year that also wasn't, and a nice Xiaguan version, and Laos and Vietnam forest-origin teas generally aren't like that.  It could just be that plant genetics vary, not an especially satisfying answer, but that's probably how cause identification is going to go.  

Kenneth mentioned that black tea, green, and oolong work out best so they produce mostly that.  From time to time writing here I bring up a really unusual (and very sour) local wild sheng version that the owner of Jip Eu made (Kittichai, that Chinatown shop owner).  I bought a second cake of that tea so that I could spread out drinking the first one over a few years and then keep on tasting it.  So far it's not changing that much.  Every time I drink it for the first few rounds I'm deciding if I really like it, and then for a long sequence of later rounds I decide that I do.  

I think adjusting to sourness relates to unlearning an established expectation, so that people not so into specialty tea could adapt quicker (related to Kenneth's input that experienced chefs love his wild-origin teas, more so than tea enthusiasts).  That would be like acclimating to bitterness in sheng; people tend to not love it right away, unless other exposure has prepared them to be open to that, for example a love of pale ales.  Then later that bitterness seems positive, a nice balancing input along with the sweetness and other flavor range.

We talked about blends, which they sell more of than plain teas.  The reason for that is pragmatic; their main customer base had been tourists, and that was in demand.  They started as a Chiang Mai tourist area cafe and shop and have expanded to here as well (Bangkok).  I don't drink much for flavored teas or blends but two of the best versions I've ever tried were from them, a mango flavored oolong (ok, that was really longan and mangosteen), and coconut flavored black tea.  I think that black tea experience reminded me of Christmas enough to draw on sentimentality as a positive input.  The quality of both was good too; you can tell when the tea is good quality and the flavoring also is.  Kenneth said that using less flavoring and higher quality tea represent a pattern previously more common in European teas, now replaced by using more flavoring and the cheapest tea versions available, for obvious reasons, to maximize margin.

Kenneth made an interesting point about how not only is tea experience embedded in a culture, but an immediate experience makes more sense there.  He said that drinking a strong and sweet gunpowder green tea with mint is a great experience in Morocco, but that it wouldn't necessarily translate, trying the same tea elsewhere.  And the same for masala chai in India, and so on; the experiences connect with the locations.

It leads to considering what the local experience should be for Bangkok (where I live).  Sitting in a Chinatown cafe, like Double Dogs, or visiting a shop there, like Jip Eu, where I first met Kenneth, and trying out Wuyi Yancha (Fujian roasted oolong) would work. Even though they're not so common a flavored rolled oolong from Monsoon could make the cut.  It would be great to visit the growing areas around Chiang Rai and try some fresh rolled oolongs in that hilly setting; I've never done that.

Doi Mae Salong (Chiang Rai area), photo from Alex Phanganovich

Valeri of Tea Side

Tea Side is on a different range of product scale, turning up the best Thai teas I've tried from any source, by a fairly significant margin.  They do sell some Taiwanese style oolongs, a main standard type in Thailand, but they focus more on sheng and shu ("not pu'er," since it's from here), and Dian Hong style black teas, including a lot of aged versions of those.  Valeri really appreciates the body-feel aspect of teas, "cha qi."  I'm at the opposite end of the scale for "getting" that, so this won't say a lot more about that theme.

He mentioned an interest in seeking out the oldest teas available in this country.  Some that Tea Side list are from the 80s to mid 2000s, with historical background and more on the Hong Tai Chang productions here.  And he also covered a bit about shu fermentation experimentation, a small-batch theme, (with his process description here, a review of two Tea Side versions here, and other background on that theme here).  His results and versions are good.  

I'm partly in the "shu is shu" camp, seeing that as one of the narrowest character / aspect range tea types there is, but of course it varies.  I don't just mean flawed or not flawed, still showing fermentation related rough edges or odd mustiness; it varies within the very positive range too.  I like shu (and hei cha), I just like sheng better.

His sheng holds its own with Yunnan range tea.  Pretty good sub-theme range too; I don't mean that it's well above generic sheng coming out of China, it's a good bit better than decent, probably in the upper half of the range of boutique teas.  I say more about that in reviews here, or I think the TeaDB guys have tried some of his versions (they are reliable, and their video form content is much nicer, much less work to experience).

What else?  We didn't get so far describing the rest of Thai teas, and there isn't that much that's simple to say.  At some point the backstory only goes so far and then it's about trying teas. Valeri mentioned that the tea tradition in Thailand goes way back, I forget the year he mentioned, but around a 1940 time-frame.  Most likely that's a known range for well established production, and local and informal practices were around a very long time before that.  Kenneth would add that people have been eating tea locally for a very long time, which I take to be accurate, even though I've never given that one text covering the history of tea a close read (Tale of Tea?).

trying miang (cured tea) at the Asok Monsoon branch

We talked a little about the history of tea in Russia, asking about his take on Bronislav Vinogrodskiy, one influential tea tradition founder there, who we just met online.  That ran through scope I've covered in other posts, about older ties to China being replaced by Ceylon trade and a different style of black tea, with plenty of influence of drinking local tisanes.  Only in the last 40 years has that developed into embracing traditional Chinese teas and more formal preparation practices.

I like the history of tea, processing background, cultural considerations, and information about plant genetics, but in the end I'm more interested in the experience of different teas.  I should add just a bit about my favorites from both vendors, since this is as much about background I already experienced than that discussion (with the two not separate).

My favorites related to both vendors

To me the Monsoon "wild" teas are ok, but novelty and that story line have to factor in to add appeal.  Their flavored teas really are the best I've ever tried, which isn't much of a broad perspective, since I actively avoid trying teas from that broad category.  One forest-source white tea I tried from them was really nice before; odd those dropped out.  They've also been ramping up kombucha production; I have almost the least exposure possible to that but it seemed nice to me.  All in all they are well worth visiting, here in Bangkok or up in Chiang Mai.

Tea Side range is more the page I'm on, Chinese tea, with focus on Yunnan scope.  And it's pretty good versions of those.  Pricing could be regarded as a down-side for the higher end of their range, but that's normal; high-demand and limited availability teas tend to cost a good bit, for all types and source areas.  A gui fei really stood out, a rolled variation on Oriental Beauty.  That was most of it, thinking back to what was nice beyond sheng, shu, and Dian Hong style black (with an interesting aged range of those available).  One green tea was one of the best I've ever tried (this one); that's strange, since I mostly only prefer Longjing within green tea scope.

Other Taiwan-style rolled oolong from them is good, as I remember, just slightly better than the main plantation versions. But in general the best of that oolong range from Vietnam eclipses the best from Thailand, and better Taiwanese versions are on a slightly higher scale.  And an even higher scale for pricing too, for those seeing that as a main concern.  One might wonder if terroir issues don't complicate what I've presented as a direct comparison here, and that does factor in.

In talking to Valeri about that last issue, that the best Taiwanese oolongs are a lot better than the best Thai versions, he is inclined to disagree, and sees the best of what he sells as on-par.  I've not tried enough of his to be clear on placing that.  To be honest I'm not a great reference for the best Taiwanese high mountain oolongs either; I've tried what I've tried, and the best of those were significantly better than the best Thai versions that I tried.  To some extent preference for local terroir related character must offset the potential for making a blanket quality level judgement.  

I like to think that I can identify quality level by standard aspect parameters (complexity, intensity, sweetness, mouthfeel and aftertaste aspects, flavor matching standard type, absence of flaws, etc.), and can go slightly beyond that to pick out some aspects that act as "quality markers" for many types.  But preference and judgement factors in, and I don't see myself as an authority on that.  I tend to agree with almost all of what Valeri has expressed about his teas that I have tried (factoring in normal bias and marketing spin), so to me that's a factor, lending some extra credibility to that input.

Back on the broader scale those guys are both really nice to talk to, both very personable and genuine.  All the talks have been positive, really, but often they feel comfortable, like talking to people you already know, and this was like that.  I've met Kenneth a few times so I should feel that way, but I mean beyond that, related to Valeri and my friends' feedback.

Biodiversity research and wild origin teas

First published in TChing here and here

These types of themes usually run in just one direction, tied to a vendor claiming that their tea is “wild sourced” from naturally growing plants in the jungle.  Sometimes it really is.  Monsoon Tea in the North of Thailand specializes in that theme, and has worked with a Russian researcher, Alexey Reshchikov, who is doing research on assessing biodiversity and forest health, based out of China.

I just attended a talk by Alexey at a Monsoon location in Bangkok, with a video of that presentation here.  I won’t get far in covering what he said, and it’s easy enough to watch it, but a bit of summary will make a start.  Just bear in mind that I won’t do the fine points justice, this only comments on some parts.

Alexey does research into the health of ecosystems.  It’s possible to assess this by trapping insects and evaluating which ones are present.  Of course that would mean a lot more to a very specifically trained ecologist, which he is.  The idea is that the health of a forest depends on the balanced diversity of all forms of life present, the plants, the insects, and everything else living there, but the insects can provide a window into how the rest is going.

As an interesting related tangent, one particular kind of lack of health in a forested environment can occur when a new species is introduced into an ecosystem that isn’t already in balance with that insect (or animal or plant).  The US sees this happen from time to time.  There was a type of silk worm (gypsy moth) spread that destroyed a lot of Pennsylvania forests when I was younger, with that not an uncommon event, per this reference:

 

Collectively, oak, elm, ash, hemlock, butternut, dogwood, redbud, and chestnut trees died at a rate several times greater than that of unimpacted tree species. From 1991 to 2013, trees attacked by invasives accounted for about 25% of all tree death, measured by the amount of tree biomass lost…

 

trap system used to collect insects

Alexey mentioned a case in which a novel form of resolution for this had been utilized; researchers introduced an insect that disrupted the invading insect’s lifecyle, stalling the progress of destruction of entire forest areas.  In discussing a similar theme with Kenneth Rimdahl of Monsoon, related to Alexey’s research, he covered how one type of insect is actually a sort of guardian of the tea plants (trees).  It feeds on other insects that would feed on the leaves, protecting the plants, when present in significant numbers.

Truly natural environments find their own balance.  The role pesticides play in monoculture farming, moderating impact of insects, is replaced by naturally established relationships between organisms.  Alexey described how in evaluating the role pesticide plays in monoculture farming it is helpful to understand what that not-as-natural environment is like, what insects can live under such circumstances.  That would mostly be relevant to organic farming, since enough pesticide use strips the environment of most types of insects.  Such study is occurring through the Dali University that Alexey is a part of. 

Alexey and Kenneth discussed a related concern:  when farming using pesticide controls as soon as an insect gains tolerance for the chemicals it has unrestricted access to feed on the plants, requiring different chemical treatment to eliminate it.  It could potentially become a vicious cycle, requiring a series of changes over time, one with health impacts for consumers eating or drinking products made from those materials.

All very fascinating!  The entire talk is worth a watch, to catch the original form, or a related Tea Fauna Facebook page covers more, or the related Instagram version tells the story through photos.

In the end the goal is to promote preservation of truly natural wildlife areas.  Being able to assess the health of a local environment and knowing more about stages in between balanced, natural forests and ecologically stripped, monoculture farming environments could support this.  This early research work isn't necessarily building directly into a way to transition from monoculture farming back to more varied, organic approaches, or to use of truly natural environments as food sources.  It's about developing understanding and tools for analysis.

Beyond leading towards more natural organic approaches, another more extreme idea is that if wild forests can provide economic support, income for local people, that provides more incentive for protecting those environments.  The links and supports between original forest, least environmentally friendly farming (mono-culture approaches), more organic approaches, and re-forestation (the interim steps) make for a longer story.

Related to that one end point goal and sub-theme, Monsoon sells “wild” origin versions of Thai teas, as are produced all across South East Asia.  I'll mention a lot of examples of related teas here, without going into detail about character or background, with more information about them in linked materials.

The "wild" teas can be unusual.  Many of those have an odd sour taste, which is better once you are expecting it, and have a chance to acclimate a bit to the different style.  It’s not unique to their versions; I reviewed a wild Xiaguan sheng pu’er that was similar here (a 2005 version, so with some age), and a locally made sheng version produced by my favorite Bangkok shop owner (from 2012, so not “young” either), which I really liked.  

wild tea search in Laos, covered here, photo credit the Comité de coopération avec le Laos

I just reviewed a Yongde “ye sheng,” or wild origin material Yunnan black tea not long ago, but in that case I was talking about an unusual degree of tartness, not sourness.  It would depend on the mix of genetics in the plant material, and of course processing always affects outcome.  I reviewed a hill-tribe producer sourced Thai black tea last year that wasn't tart or sour, just quite good tea, maybe only a little more "rustic" than some more refined versions.  And I've reviewed a comparable themed version from Vietnam.  Again, differences in plant types and processing would factor in, so resulting character varies.

Those references relate mostly to black teas, since that's the general type I started on discussing, but wild and plantation produced sheng "pu'er-like" types come up across South East Asia too.  As of now the production and market for those probably aren't extensive enough to play a significant role in preventing further de-forestation.  But lots of little steps could add up, and help support retention of natural areas, including appreciation for forest-origin products.

a small tasting gathering after the talk

Monsoon Thai coconut and mango-sticky rice black teas

I made it to a new Bangkok (Asok) branch of Monsoon Tea shops I'd been meaning to visit just prior to the pandemic.  The chain is based out of Chiang Mai.  They sell flavored teas, with particular focus on "forest friendly" naturally grown versions, using old tea tree plant material from old forest areas.

I've met Kenneth a couple of times, the owner; he's nice, as the staff were very pleasant and helpful.  I'll leave the rest of the background as linking to parts of that tea experience.  The shop is nice, a bit off the main Asok area, where Terminal 21 is located, not so far from one of the main Bangkok red light areas, but definitely not close to it.  That part of town has a lot of Japanese influence; the Fuji grocery store not far from there, but really beside Phrom Pong station, is great, worth checking out.

For background this tea matches a coconut black tea from them I reviewed long ago (Christmas 2015; the time just flies), and I've tried a Dhara white and Choaphrya River fruit flavored oolong since, all of which were great.  In turning up those links I was reminded that oolong was from an Assamica plant type; interesting.  That would match up with the old-plant local-source theme.

that tea had reminded me of Christmas, and it was Christmas time, so it really worked

trying an oolong there; the quality was good, the style just wasn't a preference match for me

Thai coconut black tea review:

In looking at the brewed tea it's not uniformly oxidized or mostly oxidized, as black tea often is.  There's no need to be concerned the tea won't be good based only on appearance, because brewing it and trying it tells that story.  Inconsistent oxidation or lower levels of oxidation could work out really well, if the inputs just happen to work out that way.  Or maybe not.  But only the brewed results tell that story, not leaf appearance.

Upon trying it I wouldn't say that the tea is good.  The balance is unusual when I first taste it, and given in what sense I can't imagine that could shift.  It's interesting, and novel, but slightly sour, and that flavor aspect stands out most.  The version I had tried years back was a conventional black tea, relatively fully oxidized, with a very positive and balanced contribution from the coconut flavor.  It was like coconut in a Mounds bar, really sweet with a slight toasted edge.  The coconut flavor is hard to pick up in this, although it is there.

I'll often not review teas I don't like, and this is right around that threshold.  It's interesting, and pleasant in a sense, it's just not really "good tea," with a lot of room for improvement.  The input of the leaf not being fully oxidized, or at least mostly so, probably isn't helping this tea.


That brings me to the second reason I would review a tea, if it wasn't to talk about what I like about it, for the novelty in style being interesting.  This is novel on a few levels, for being a flavored tea, for being from Thailand, as a follow-up to one of the best flavored tea versions I've ever tried.  And for considering how varying levels of oxidation in black teas works out, which turns out to be overshadowed in this version by a different concern.  I'm probably judging this more negatively because it's not nearly as good as that earlier version, or at least related to how I remember it. 

Next relationship to a vendor comes into play.  I really like Kenneth (the owner), and want to support his business, and Thai tea development in general, and the "forest friendly" theme.  I don't blindly buy in but I accept there's something completely valid there, especially as a long-term direction that food production really needs to go in.  A long term transition like sustainable food production needs to start with initial steps, and there would be positive and negative parts to the early development, aspects or forms that work better than others. 

Back to this tea, sourness isn't normal; that's typically seen as a processing flaw, that a tea stayed too moist after the final drying stage, and picked up that flavor later on, after it was finished.  This being partly oxidized could pair with that, but of course white or green teas are also left unoxidized when dried, and need to complete a drying cycle to be stored properly.  Finished moisture content and oxidation level don't necessarily link together.

All the same there is promise in this tea's character; some parts work.  To the extent I can pick it up the coconut is positive, again a very pleasant flavor addition version.  It's a shame it's not an addition to a better tea version, that this picked up the sourness that it did. 

When first brewing it I had considered that results might be more positive if I used less tea and moved away from my normal Western practice of brewing three infusions, versus two longer ones.  I'm guessing but I'm probably using 5 or 6 grams of tea to produce just over 250 ml (one cup) of brewed tea, infused for about 3 minutes.  I'm not using completely hot water since the thick ceramic cup took away a lot of the initial heat, and the water was a little off full boiling point to begin with.  For some what all that means is clear, and it would be hard to break it down fully if not, how proportion, water temperature, and timing tend to map together.

I'm using a hybrid approach, really; true Western brewing would back that off to 2 1/2 to 3 grams infused for 4 to 5 minutes, using a second longer round (so maybe 4 at first, then 5).  For a flavored tea the concern is that the first round "rinses off" the flavor; obvious enough, right?  For this coconut being too strong isn't the issue, it's that sourness.  It's conceivable that the coconut flavor input wasn't right, that it "went off" slightly for some reason, and it's that I'm tasting, not a flaw in the processed tea leaves.  But it probably just wasn't dry enough.


I tried an oolong version at the shop that I didn't like as well, something atypical, which I think was their highest end version (selling for the most, something with "forest" in the title, maybe).  It wasn't flawed tea; that was a style issue, about personal preference, not matching any range I like.   That was selling for such a high per-gram price that I would've had harder feelings about buying a significant quantity of that, where this coconut tea was pretty reasonable, something like 280 baht per 50 grams, or $9 for that much tea.  That's still a lot for a flavored tea, about double a more typical outlet price.  That's another part I wanted to address here, how sources and types affect pricing levels.

You can't compare the pricing with a market standard when there are no other options for the type.  These teas are unique; there are no alternatives out there like them.  That's just as well for this coconut black tea, and the oolong that I didn't like, but the Chaophrya Blend tropical flavored oolong I just reviewed was really novel and positive, as were those other two.

Cost also relates to supporting a local physical shop.  Pricing is usually higher in brick and mortar shops versus online outlets; their overhead is higher.  And I'm fine with that.  If you don't support your local tea shop it won't be there for you later (in general; if enough people don't).  It feels a little unnatural buying tea for twice as much as I could spend through a separate outlet, if there are equivalent options out there, but in some cases I'll do just that.  When a tea type isn't available elsewhere that's just what that type happens to cost.

For local Bangkok Chinatown shops all that doesn't apply; their overhead is low, because they're out there in Chinatown, where rents are low.  They cover their overhead through volume sales, not tea enthusiasts dropping buy to pick up 200 grams.  I just visited my favorite shop right after making these notes and bought 400 grams of tea (4 tuochas of 2012 Xiaguan sheng puer) and 3 small porcelain gaiwans for a bit less than these 200 grams of flavored teas.  It's much better and more interesting tea, per my preference, and it cost less than half as much.  Getting there towards completely aged Xiaguan sheng wouldn't be for everyone though; it tastes a bit like tobacco, a little on the earthy side, quite intense in an unusual sense.

with Kittichai at Jip Eu, from a few days ago

my wife was my driver that day so she finally met those shop owners (she's on the left)

I'm still suggesting that Monsoon teas are worth trying; diverse experience is a big part of what makes drinking tea so interesting, and these teas (the others) are unlike any other types I've tried, positive in novel ways.  If spending 1600 baht ($45--what I paid for 200 grams) throws off your tea budget then if you live in Bangkok go to Chinatown instead.  Just be careful there, because teas are even less consistent if you just visit random shops.  Even in my favorite shop, Jip Eu, quality level, styles, and relative value varies a lot.

Monsoon sets pricing lower as you buy in larger volume amounts.  Of course if you don't like a tea that's a bad thing, "getting through" half a kilo of one.  Tasting teas in the shop would be the easy way to avoid that.


The second round is much better; sourness is much diminished.  This is quite pleasant.  Maybe the coconut oil had "went off" somehow; that would explain how the rinsing function improved it.  For drinking this as a sequence of Gongfu style rounds it might have worked well, throwing out the first two infusions and then enjoying the rest.  It's a bit faded in character, and coconut barely comes through, but the balance is still pleasant.

Intensity being faded makes it hard to review.  It tastes like good black tea and coconut; that's it.  It's not as strong as the Mounds / Bounty bar effect in the one I tried years ago, but it contributes in a positive way.  There's a trace of sourness but after finishing half that first cup, and throwing away the rest, it seems to not even be present in comparison, at this level. 

Now I'm closer to recommending this tea, but I'd stop short of that.  The concept works, and the execution has positive merits, but that one flaw makes it not worth it.  Drank as this round it's entirely positive, for what you do experience, but not very intense.

Mango and sticky rice black tea

definitely fully oxidized, going by dry leaf appearance

Blogger didn't save the notes I made for this so I'll finally achieve a short review version, related to re-producing the notes from memory.  I liked the tea.  The type is a reference to an herb tasting a little like sticky rice, with more on that effect and input related to a Laos white tea version here.


It wasn't bright in character as one might expect from the name and description.  The mango aspect seemed more like dried mango, or really as close to dried apricot, which is close enough.  Sticky rice effect is contributed by an herb that really does taste a bit like sticky rice, and that part worked.  I would have expected this to be brighter, sweeter, and more intense like the Chao Phyra oolong version I reviewed not so long ago was.  Of course light oolong is a different thing than a black tea; those are going to be warmer in tone, expressing a less "bright" flavor range.


That description reconstruction:

-seemingly good black tea; no flaws, no pronounced astringency, decent complexity.

-the second infusion gave up a bit of intensity but both were quite pleasant, and a third was still good too, just dropping out quite a bit of intensity.

-anyone looking to re-create the effect of a mango and sticky rice desert wouldn't experience that, but the balance and complexity are good.  Sweetness wasn't as notable as it could've been, and it didn't seem like they tried to add the coconut sauce flavor aspect part.  The bright citrus note in the one type of mango used to make the sticky rice desert wasn't in this version either.

-flavor range was good and the balance worked well, but both intensity and complexity could've been better.  Some plain black teas I've tried in the past have seemed to surpass this across a lot of that range.  Mixing the tea and two other flavor inputs probably made it seems a bit non-distinct, compared to a really good black tea where all the flavor is a natural input.


This might have worked really, really well with a touch of coconut, based on a flavorful and fruity version of white tea.  But that's asking a lot, getting all that to balance.

Next steps:

I have a plain black tea and oolong I bought yet to try; I'll see how those work out.  Given that I didn't like either of these as much as that earlier flavored oolong (Chao Phrya blend) eventually I might stop back to buy some of that.  I keep giving tea to our "family monk" and I think he would really like it.

Kenneth will be presenting at an online conference, the Nomad Tea Festival, a theme the pandemic helped originate (or at least expand on, but I don't remember those turning up in the exact same form before).   That's at 1:30 - 2 AM local Australia time on July 26 (seemingly with scheduling set to make sense in the US instead; just make sure you get the date right if you plan to watch it, since it's often "tomorrow" already here). 

That's at 10:30-11 at night here; I'll be out of town for the weekend but still might catch it.  I suppose there's a decent chance they will make the videos available later if you miss it.

Tropical fruit flavored "wild" Assamica Thai oolong

named after the river that runs past Bangkok

Visiting with a friend awhile back the owner of Monsoon, who made this tea, stopped by and shared some samples with us.  It's the second time that I've met Kenneth Rimdahl (that owner); he seems like a really nice guy.  He talks about the forest-friendly theme here.

I could be clearer on the "Assamica" part in this title.  Old, wild-growing tea plants in the North of Thailand are exclusively Assamica variety, per my understanding, but my understanding wouldn't always be accurate.  There are so many tangents to get to in this post, along with the review itself, that I'll not dwell further on it here, or say more about the wild and "forest friendly" aspects.

Kenneth in white; Sasha (right) hasn't been mentioned here for awhile

I've written a little about that in this post, which related to meeting Kenneth the second time.  In that post I downplay the overall impact making a limited amount of tea from wild sources will have on the industry, but if the impact is still positive that's a good thing, and it sets up a basis for expanding that over time.  This post relates to meeting him in my favorite Chinatown shop prior to that, and we did talk about that background there. 

Of course wild sourced tea is a very positive theme; old tea plants really are growing in a natural fashion in different places (organically, in a biodiverse environment), and the tea from such plants tends to be mild in character (low astringency), intense in flavor, and very pleasant.  It's hard to not notice that the tin presentation, the container, contradicts the conservation theme, but this isn't a critique of how it all works taken together.

three years ago; the time flies

On the subject of tangents, I wanted to also share which flavored teas I've liked best in this post.  It's a subject that doesn't come up often here, not for a couple of years in any post, and one I tend to discredit or downplay.  But to be clear I think there's nothing wrong with people liking all sorts of different teas (even Lipton tea bags), and flavored teas can be interesting in diverse.  To me natural, better-quality, loose-leaf versions are more interesting, in general, but citing some exceptions helps place my take on all that.

I think this is lychee and mango

Review

The first infusion is really fruity; it tastes like lychee and mango. Taste is clean, more natural in effect than flavored teas would generally be. A bright citrus aspect is a bit lemony but mango often includes something like that naturally, and lychee isn't far off that range either. Lychee is my overall favorite tropical fruit, and mango might be a close second. It's hard to get much read on the tea itself in a light first infusion.

More of the same on the second infusion, brewed for close to 20 seconds, a bit strong as other tea types go, for this proportion. Flavor is really clean; aroma is pleasant. Sweetness and other aspect balance is good. It's still hard to pin down what the tea itself is like beyond the flavoring but it integrates well. It's a light oolong, not dissimilar to a Jin Xuan, but since this should be Assamica it should be quite different.

Normally I'd only only provisionally like any blend or flavored tea, it could be fine for what it is, but this works as an exception. It's good.

Vegetal range is picking up as fruit drops off but this is still sweeter and fruitier than a plain light oolong. It's not vegetal in the sense of green beans or pepper picking up, more a floral range with just a trace of green wood. For as clean and pleasant as this is it had to be fine plain, but I get it why a lot of people would prefer it flavored. I'd have to try a plain version to know which seems better.

A touch of butteriness picks up; that might have been what reminded me of Jin Xuan, even though I didn't notice it in the last round.

The fruit flavor is hanging in there, two thirds dropped out, or so, but still a main component. The overall effect is still really nice, bright, sweet, fresh, and complex. These flavors must be extracts of some kind; there's no way chemicals would taste this natural. I should ask Kenneth but probably won't; blog posts take forever with Q & A back and forth as an input.  I'll do an interview post later if I get to it.

It's hard to do much with evaluating this as an Assamica based oolong, in part due to the flavoring layer input. It's clean, with good complexity and feel, a lot like a well above average Thai oolong.  This other post covers trying two of the very rare Assamica based oolongs I've ever had that worked really well, versions from Hatvala from Vietnam.  But those were more-oxidized in style, a completely different thing (what people often call "red oolong," a popular but less common style imported from Taiwan).


Later rounds:  3 more rounds stayed pleasant and well-balanced, with fruit tones fading and woody flavor picking up.  Even after 8 or so infusions the tea was still quite pleasant; interesting an added flavor would hang in there that long, even if greatly diminished.  I put the leaves in the refrigerator with lukewarm water after those rounds, to cold brew for an extra infusion; they still weren't done yet.

It would seem more conventional for people to brew this Western style, of course, for people more into flavored teas to just brew 2 or 3 rounds in a teapot or some infuser instead.  That would work.

I really liked it.  The color shows it's a very lightly oxidized oolong, which is either a good or bad thing, depending on how that suites the final tea aspects and character, and for this it worked really well.

Other flavored teas

There's nothing necessarily wrong with flavored teas, or liking flavored teas, but inexpensive, low-quality versions are often more a gateway to better tea than a final preference destination.  Artificially flavored, low quality tea based versions aren't like this blend, closer to how flavoring gas-station coffee with those artificially flavored non-dairy creamer cups comes across (which can be ok, for a road-trip caffeine fix).

I'll list a few flavored tea versions I've really liked, with these exceptions intended to fill in what I think represents the best of this category.


Earl Grey:  no need to go to far with describing this; bergamot essential oil (citrus) blended black tea should be familiar.  If not go try some.  Twinings loose version isn't too bad, but even better versions than theirs can be really nice.  I've reviewed a good bit of Earl Grey here but none of those reviews shed any more light on what it is, or how it is.  An interesting version from the Cordon Bleu cooking school was really maxed out for that orange citrus flavor, right at the balance point for being too much.  That seemed like a natural place to set that level, upon drinking it.  I think they stopped making it though; a later search about it didn't turn it up.


Monsoon coconut flavored black tea:  this really stuck with me (that post was from 2005).  This same producer made a relatively natural version (per my understanding) that worked really well as a winter / Christmas seasonal theme experience.  Some extracted, essential oil version of coconut really captured the flavor of toasted coconut (presumably it was that), combined with what seemed like a pretty decent black tea.  I'll drink that again someday.


Jasmine black tea:  my overall favorite flavored tea, probably.  To me jasmine works much better with black tea than green, and balances and complements it even better than bergamot essential oil.  A bad version might seem off, but even Indonesian grocery store versions were good.  Hatvala, a Vietnamese vendor, makes my favorite that I've tried (reviewed here), but Moychay also produced a really exceptional example.  It's hard to describe further than just saying that this particular floral range and good black tea work really well together, even better than it sounds.

the cacao nibs on the lower right; they work better ground a bit more, like coffee

Chocolate flavored tea:  I've not done much with this popular flavored tea sub-theme (maybe well represented by David's Tea selection).  Two Christmas themed blends, based mostly on a masala chai base, did use cacao nibs and actual chocolate.  Both masala chai and Christmas blends are promising directions for blends that aren't really typical of flavor-added teas.  The most basic version of the latter is something along the lines of black tea, orange peel, cinnamon, and mint, or just a twist on a masala chai recipe, maybe adding pine needles or something such.  Cacao husks would be a good way to add real chocolate flavor to any tea, probably as well balanced with a mild black version as any (the nibs, the actual "bean," can be hard to infuse).

fruit peels dried for one of those Christmas blends

That seems like a good place to leave off.  Blending other flavors into teas is promising, it's just that drinking single-type, narrow-origin, high-quality plain versions of teas is even more promising.  None of those blends or flavored tea posts are from the last two years; I've just not been exploring that lately.  I made a mostly herbal version of masala chai that worked well when I was sick last year; that's an exception (and tried chen pi then, from looking that up, tea stuffed in an orange / tangerine peel).  I really like masala chai, it just takes some messing around to make a version, and I don't get to it often.