Tea Village Thai dark oolong

their tasting area isn't currently open but we chatted there anyway

I finally made it back to Pattaya for two weekend outings (with a travel-blog themed post about that here) and visited Vee, one of the owners of the Tea Village shop there.  We met twice; catching up was nice.  I bought this more-oxidized oolong and an old tree source Assam black (in a style not unrelated to Dian Hong, it seems) during the first weekend, and some lighter oolong the second.

I've been critical of Thai teas in the past for being lower quality versions of what is produced in other places, and have claimed that Vietnamese teas can be better.  To me those generalities are accurate but there's something to be said for upper medium level quality good-value teas.  Even for an experienced tea enthusiast they can work for a daily drinker, as a tea to have with breakfast when you don't have time to put into brewing or appreciation, and for people still on tea-bag teas they could be a revelation and a gateway.

It all depends on the tea version too.  An average version of an average quality level tea might not be worth drinking, for many, but a much better quality version in the same general range, just on the higher edge instead, could seem very pleasant.  This review will identify where this version stands, per my judgement.  Brewing approach makes a difference, so it will cover a good bit about that as a factor.

Let's start with the vendor description first (from a sales-site web page, paraphrased since text cut and paste is disabled):

A dark (high oxidation level) oolong based on Assamica variety leaves, with flavors that include some tartness and flavors including prune, bark, and dark chocolate, produced similarly to Tie Kuan Yin.


That Assamica part jumps out, doesn't it?  It reads like a likely mistake at first glance.  I can only think of one version of Chinese Assamica-based oolong that I've tried, beyond teas coming out of India, but those aren't even supposed to be close to Chinese oolongs, it doesn't seem.  Tartness in an oolong is atypical but then an oolong made from Assamica would be atypical.

The rest seems right for more oxidized oolong, but the reference to Tie Kuan Yin could do with a little unpacking.  Per my experience--which isn't so extensive that I'm clear on everything, especially related to TKY range and processing--those Chinese versions aren't more-oxidized teas, they're moderately oxidized, maybe even still on the light side, with the roast shifting the profile more than that other processing input.  To be clear I really could've tried only atypical versions, because you tend to mostly only see the light version (bright green ones), and I wouldn't be surprised if producers trying to copy an older style would very often get that part wrong.

The Taiwanese more-oxidized or more-roasted oolongs I've tried spanned more of a range; those do tend to be made with either oxidation or roasting level increased, or both together, it just depends.  I could go on to say that I've not tried much presented as a more roasted or oxidized TKY from there (from that cultivar or plant type, which is also used to mention a characteristic style in some cases), but I wouldn't make too much of that, and here that point was just a description tangent anyway.

They recommend using full boiling point water and a modified Western brewing approach, with a somewhat typical proportion (maybe a little high) but backing off the timing and using 3 to 5 infusions of 45 seconds to 2 minutes.  That is kind of how I tend to adjust Western style brewing; we'll see about the temperature part though.

The tea is very inexpensive; the website lists 50 grams for around $2 (65 baht).  That is a standard price range for grocery store versions of Thai oolong here, or Royal project store versions, but tea quality levels vary a lot for both of those sources.  Among Western vendors tea just isn't sold in that price range, at least not decent oolong.

I've prepared it using an infuser cup, small glass pot, and gaiwan

Review

I first brewed this tea Western style, so that's where this review will start, based on a relatively standard process.  I tend to go a little heavy on proportion and brew three rounds versus two, which seems to work better for me for oolongs (which often turn out better brewed Gongfu style anyway, with more on that in a next section).  I most often use water a little off boiling point.

The tea tastes like cinnamon.  The overall character is closer to black tea than oolong, with the balance in the middle working well in this case.  A typical aspect-list description comes to mind: warm and sweet dried fruit, along the lines of tamarind, maybe even cherry (although that's a stretch), leather or dark wood, a trace of mineral similar to rusted iron.  This range often gets interpreted as similar to pastry, like toasted and buttery Danish, which works.

Really how someone sees aspects depends on interpretation, as much or more in this case as any.  It's a little creamy in effect but that could be stronger with this set of aspects.  It could be seen as tasting like cocoa instead of cinnamon, but per my read it's cinnamon.


Strengths:

-not off in any way, sour, or oddly roasted, overly thin.

-clean flavored with good sweetness and balance.

-cinnamon is nice.  Other aspect range is positive but it could have more depth and complexity.

-this kind of tea works well prepared strong, both a strength and related to weaknesses, since it can't be over-brewed but lacks intensity to pull off lighter infusion strengths.

-inexpensive (kind of a completely different subject, but it is a factor).


Weaknesses:

-a bit thin as oolongs go; nice flavor but thin in feel and after taste.  I'd said in the "strengths" it wasn't overly thin, but I meant two different things.  This lacks the depth and fullness of higher quality oolongs but doesn't come across as so light in body that I'd call it a notable flaw.  I see it as a limitation instead.

-not as subtle, refined, or complex as better Taiwanese versions.  It needs to be brewed strong to compensate for both of these limitations.

Initial conclusions (prior to trying a second brewing approach, Gongfu preparation)

I like this style of tea and this version works. For a good value tea it's pleasant and positive.  Thai producers more often get this slightly wrong, and similar versions often have one more flaw that makes it not work as well (sourness, or some other slightly off character).

I'm curious if light roasting played a role in end effect but I get the impression that oxidation did all the work of aspects transition in this, or at least almost all of it, which works but limits the complexity.

The part about the tea being Assamica is curious; how did that change things (or could that not be accurate?).  Of course it could be Assamica; if you process those leaves in the same way a tea variation of oolong will result, it just won't turn out the same.  The leaves seem smaller than I'd expect, but then Assamica is a broad category and newer leaves are still going to be small for that plant type (just maybe not the first three, but then I'm thin on the botany side of background).  Using that plant type could explain why it didn't achieve the depth and fullness that similar but less oxidized oolongs tend to.

I would have expected the taste profile to skew further off typical Thai oolong range with that as a factor.  I've described this as a mild black tea, for the most part (the descriptions would match that), but that pastry-like character I've never experienced in the same form in any Assamica or Yunnan black.  The cinnamon can be common, and of course a broad range of fruit and mineral, but that other aspect tends to not come up.


It's not typical but I'll compare this from memory with a personal favorite similar style tea from Vietnam, Hatvala's Red Buffalo.  In a sense that's not a fair comparison because that's a favorite, but the styles mostly match, at a rough general level, and there is a general point I'm heading towards.  I haven't tried that tea in about two years but I did buy a lot at one point so it sticks in memory better.

They're so similar that only a side by side tasting would clarify exactly where they stand in relation to each other, and year to year that might vary.  I remember that tea as slightly creamier and fuller, lighter on cinnamon but fuller in complexity.  For a casual tea drinker it's still possible this flavor profile might work better (or more likely not; I really did like that tea), but at a guess that Vietnamese tea version depth in flavor complexity and feel would tip the balance for experienced tea drinkers, for people with more evolved preferences.

To me this is still nice tea as daily drinkers go.  Gongfu brewing might pull out an extra aspect or two (I'll cover that next) but in general western brewing is just as well for this tea type.  It's nice because it would be one of the best teas someone new to tea ever tried, a good gateway tea, even if it is probably too limited for a Taiwanese oolong enthusiast to appreciate it.

that tasting room area is really cool

two minutes in; impatient little people

Gongfu brewing

I really expected the tea to be almost the same but to perform better prepared Gongfu style.  Instead the tartness was a lot more pronounced, taking over the other range of flavor aspects, standing out as dominant.  In the earlier review section here I didn't even mention tartness.  I kept thinking it would fade, and it probably did some, in later rounds, but I noticed more of what seemed like cranberry for flavor than anything else throughout the cycle.  So what happened?

At a guess the teaware I was using to brew the tea Western style absorbed more heat, and allowed more to dissipate during the longer brewing process, resulting in an unintended parameter change.  That is just a guess, but it would account for that degree of aspect change.  Just using a different proportion and timing can change aspects some too but it normally doesn't to that degree.

Using a full gaiwan (once the leaves were wet) also made it harder to moderate infusion strength, although flash brewing would accomplish that.  While I usually go lighter on Gongfu style brewing infusion strength I might have accidentally inverted that, and had been brewing the tea stronger for most rounds instead.  That would be my first guess for causes of the difference (related to the tartness) if I'd only prepared this tea twice, but I've been drinking it brewed Western style a few times and that tartness doesn't come out to that degree, no matter how long I infuse it or at whatever proportion.  It seems likely using fast infusions with a thin porcelain gaiwan caused a significant temperature difference, even for using the same water temperature at the start.


A Steepster discussion of someone brewing what they described as moderate quality Tie Kuan Yin (mediocre, they put it, a little more judgmental but the same idea), and getting better results than they usually do relates to this.  It turned out that per their final conclusion they accidentally dropped brewing temperature and that worked better.  It's a standard idea that better oolongs can perform well (or best, as the typical take) at full boiling point, but that lower quality versions may not.  All that was covered in this blog post about best oolong brewing temperature.

It seems likely that I really do like this tea brewed just a bit off boiling point, brewed cooler, but that thinness and lack of body I mentioned in the first review is the trade-off for limiting that tartness.

It's still decent tea; it was never supposed to be a higher quality version than it is.  If someone didn't mind or even enjoyed tartness in tea (which I sort of don't) the opposite trade-off might be the way to go; brew it hot, and get that extra intensity and depth back, but give up some apparent sweetness and more flavor aspect range towards cinnamon or dried fruit. 

Related to value and appreciating a broad range of style of tea it's interesting to me how this can seem like nice tea and a good value at $2 / 50 grams, and the Hatvala Red Buffalo similar oolong can too while costing nearly three times as much (still not much for nice oolong), and my favorite Chinese oolong in a different style, Wuyi Origin's Rou Gui (reviewed here) can cost more than ten times as much and still be a great value tea.  It would work better for parallel structure to be referencing a better Taiwanese "red oolong" but I don't have a favorite among what I've tried of those.  In my own progression of tea appreciation in the past I was more at one particular place or level, liking the quality level I had learned to appreciate versus all of them, each for what it is.  I'm not convinced that's necessarily a higher form of perspective; it's just where I am now.

I bought some extra of this to share with my daughter's teacher since although it's not great tea it's quite good for the price.  She's British and doesn't have much exposure to teas beyond the breakfast blends and such; it'll be interesting to hear how that goes.  

on his 10th birthday; they grow up so fast

the other, with Yai

one of many cool moments; they help me appreciate the little things

Two weekends in Pattaya, a Thailand beach resort

This post isn't about tea.  I've just taken a rare break from blogging, mostly due to spending two weekends on holiday beach-weekend outings in Pattaya.  For people familiar with Thailand that might seem odd, doing a family beach outing there, since that's known for being a resort themed around vice.

I just wrote a description of what's there as a Quora answer, which I'll cite all of, so there's really no point in clicking through except to see a few more pictures there:

What makes Pattaya, Thailand such a popular tourist destination? What are some of the best things there?


I was just in Pattaya over the past two weekends. It’s primary draw is as a sex tourism destination; no need to dance around that subject. I go there on family oriented vacations because it’s convenient, it’s the closest beach area to Bangkok, and taking a few hours to get there (varying with traffic density) versus 4 1/2 to 5 hours for Hua Hin makes a big difference. Cha-am is slightly closer than Hua Hin, just up the beach to the North, towards Bangkok, but not much different related to travel time.

Beyond what I’ve mentioned there are cabaret shows there where transgender (men to women) dancers perform. It’s not seedy or distasteful at all, if it sounds so, just novel, not something you see everywhere. The “cabaret” idea of seeing traditional costumes and dancing seems a bit unusual, but the only time I’ve been to one of the two main versions it wasn’t so bad.

at the Tiffany cabaret show; not my thing, but not so bad

There is a beach. It’s known for not being as clean as some of the other beaches in Thailand but I suppose the location related to where waste flows into the gulf from that city and other industrial areas would determine just how clean or dirty it actually is. We were in the water briefly this weekend; it seemed ok. It’s probably as well to split the time heavier on the side of spending more time swimming in a pool.

It’s not typical to see a lot of family vacationers there, as proportions go, but plenty of families do visit there in terms of a count. There are two large, modern water parks a good distance outside of town (Ramayana and Cartoon Network Amazone), and a local, inexpensive version in town (Pattaya Park, I think that was called). We just visited the last a week ago and went to a hotel water park themed area open to paying visitors this past weekend, at the Centara Grand Mirage. A brand new mall opened this past week, Terminal 21, interesting for having a theme on each floor as the one in Bangkok does (eg. ancient Greece is one floor, Japan another).

There are a few other attractions for kids or families but the main entertainment theme is nightlife, along with massage and such (multiple kinds). Visitors to Thailand who aren’t interested in that theme should probably go somewhere else since there are plenty of other beach area and island options.

About those weekend outings

This doesn't connect back up with the subject of tea; I often use weekend outings as a chance to take a break, from caffeine and from tea.  On the first I didn't bring any and only drank a single cup of coffee during one morning and then on the next day some tea while visiting a friend at Tea Village, a nice shop there, that also has a website here.  I took that further on the second weekend, drinking from some left-over leaves grandpa style the first morning, and skipping tea altogether for two more days.  This past week I was sick with a stomach problem (passed on from my kids) so I took two days off all caffeine, and one of those off food.

that little one was sick in this photo; she's very durable

I tend to express that my life here seems more normal and maybe even more "Western" than one might expect.  My kids love pools and water parks so that's what we were there to see and do.

other family theme vacations can work out there

Centara Grand Mirage pool area; we stayed elsewhere and visited there

jumping into the deep end, literally

Kalani couldn't really swim the first weekend and could the second; to me that was the biggest story and the most interesting experience.  It all just came together, over a year of practice and taking lessons, with some personal coaching from her brother tipping the balance.  

I'm not sure if all those details would even be interesting to other parents, never mind anyone else.  She was fearless that first weekend, swimming around in water too deep to stand up in, in spite of not having a reliable ability to swim over distance, or even to tread water.  Then the next she could do all of it, tread water, swim on the top surface, and underwater.  Part of the surprise was so much coming together; she could do freestyle, finally turning her head properly to breath, swim underwater half a pool length in the short direction, and picked up frog style swimming, kind of odd.

4 years ago it was his turn to learn; she's a year ahead of schedule

the last trip, October 2016 (we switched to going other places)

A new mall opened up here, only a week ago now, Terminal 21.  The first version of that is here in Bangkok, with different floors based on different themes.

the Eiffel tower

I was just watching some Youtube videos about dying US mall culture, kind of an old subject now, since that played out quite a bit around 5 years ago.  It came up related to Sears finally filing for bankruptcy, about two years after industry analysts first said that was immanent.  There's a mall in my hometown, Cranberry PA, that was hit hard by a JC Penny moving out, and this Sears issue will probably finally kill it.

How could Thailand be so far off the economic progression in the US?  Online retail sales never picked up to the same extent.  They will, and some malls opening now will close or be re-purposed, or older ones will fail instead.

In a sense this "being behind" is much more of a good thing than a bad one.  Let me explain.  If you (living in the US) could go back to the US culture and economic status of 20-25 years ago, would you?  That trade would involve experiencing limited scale economic growth instead of decline, infrastructure development, and economic and culture changes in a much more limited form.  That last part also relates to a lack of any form of school shootings or "crazy people" committing child abductions and mass killings, or even violent crime (ok, some of that started in the 70s and 80s in the US, but Thailand hasn't caught up to the US levels 30 years ago yet).  Unfortunately since I started this draft two days ago there was another of those very close to where I'm from, a mass-shooting in a Pittsburgh synagogue.

Thailand is actually ahead in terms of settling gender issues; there is a well-established third gender (M to F transgender), and no one cares what those people identify as, or limits their social role or work options scope, at least all that much.  Cultures just vary in different ways so it's not a great description or model to compare them as behind or ahead of each other, but to some extent doing so for aspects does seem to make sense.

There's a split in expat (foreigner) perceptions about Thailand and Thai culture I should back up and explain.  One side is a bit bitter for being disillusioned by dealing with being in a foreign culture.  On the other extreme--people tend to fall towards one or the other--expats see Thailand as more ideal than where they came from, maybe not as a paradise, but often even framing it in exactly that extreme form.  I think this relates to people making peace with a decision to leave their native country, more so than how it really is in Thailand.  Or not being able to.  Of course how Thailand actually is factors in, but people can build a balanced, positive life in different places, or fail to achieve that. 

at a new park in Bangkok since, Chula's Centennial Park in Sam Yan

Switching back up to a much more general level, it's my current impression that people can believe what they want to believe, and can round off external experience an awful lot to accommodate getting reality to match.  Do I even need to mention how this relates to Trump?  He himself acknowledged that he could shoot a person dead in public and his supporters would find a way to be fine with that.  It wasn't exaggeration, and he didn't mean it to be.  I personally accept that on the more liberal side people are criticizing many bad leadership choices that are doing great harm to the country but on both sides people can focus on believe what they want to believe.

A different expat could visit Pattaya (also with a family) and see sex workers, and talk more about how the water at the beach isn't clean, about getting stuck in traffic (one of the two trips down was a nightmare for travel time, the two back were the fastest we've covered that distance; someone could remember whichever they chose to).

Building a new mall could be seen as a cultural blight; they already had a relatively new one, and there are countless malls where we live in Bangkok.  About the vice theme my kids saw go-go dancers on the one-block walk to and from that mall (it's that out in the open; one bar and one bar-area are public view, not walled buildings).  My daughter thought it was odd that the one woman was dancing alone, never mind the part about the pole. 

"Drinking Street," that publicly open go-go bar area

an earlier photo with the mall still under construction

How did we explain that?  We didn't.  We said "that's a bar," and let it drop.  Kids pick up an awful lot so they surely got a sense there was more going on than they were familiar with but then they don't go into bars.  I kind of did, as a child, since one of my earliest memories was dropping by a Moose club when my grandparents (one set) was into that scene.  People drank; there were no shiny poles or women dancing.  I think we might have played bingo, with drunk people around.

Wrapping up, or at least heading there, the rest is what you'd expect.  We visited an "open zoo" on the way down and my kids were really happy to get back to feeding giraffes and elephants.  I was in a pool a lot, both weekends.  I don't go to bars; I more or less gave up alcohol for the Thai rainy season, a 4 month Buddhist lent, which isn't difficult because I only drink one beer a week normally.  My wife's interest-requirement was a two hour oil massage, which I typically go experience with her since she likes the company.  There are other ranges of "massage" options there but those we experience are always the higher end spa versions, on the up and up.  Readers curious about what the other range might involve could Google search "soapy massage."

this kid turned 10 since this was taken

interesting how animal ethics issues relate

I suppose different readers would interpret this take different ways.  Maybe some would think I have an ideal life, or others a boring one, or some might think I've colored what I've passed on, stressed parts that were more interesting to me and minimized others.  Of course I did; that was the one point I tried to make, that it's what we do. 

To some extent I even intentionally embrace taking a narrow perspective.  I love seeing the world through my kids' eyes; it's a beautiful world to experience.  As an example 100 times over that last weekend I heard a quote from a Donald Duck cartoon from them:  thank you my good man; may I have a spot of tea?  I would laugh and say that never gets old, and I wasn't completely kidding.  It was a little fresher that first half of the times they said it but the light in their eyes from making light of being annoying and repetitive was much cooler than the counter of experiencing a repeating track.

I guess the second half of that video tells more of a mixed story; they repeat some version of an Indian accent of someone saying "please my friend."  I think that's from school, no doubt sampled from some media source via a friend. 

It's awfully culturally insensitive for mixed race and culture kids.  Kalani has a friend who is Indian, so they get exposure to other cultures, but it's another thing putting it altogether, and yet another sorting out which expressions should be limited.  Making fun of a cartoon duck with an English accent and an Indian speech patterns would be seen differently in the politically correct US culture environment.  In that context the British duck version might not be ok either, but more likely it probably would; I think making fun of white people, even the British, is still ok.  The cartoon duck pretending to be formal didn't seem a cultural slight but the rest did start in that direction.

with a new friend from Taiwan (the girl on the right)

Americans could make fun of other Americans but it's such a sore subject these days.  To quote a Canadian acquaintance, so many seem dumb as a bag of hammers.  Science denial is a personal pet peeve; rejecting climate change or evolution are absurd but that keeps getting extended, now onto flat earth theory.

Conclusion

Maybe a bit too much drift through that last part, but it is interesting how culture issues play out differently in a different country, and how being around a lot of foreigners shifts that.  Or being one, for that matter.

Three water parks in Rayong, Thailand

People have different impressions of Thailand, and even some of the people planning visits seem to have no idea what it's like here.  More general comment references about developing countries / "the third world" combine everywhere that's not the US and Europe (or Canada and Australia) into one type of place, where people probably have it bad.  Some do, but the rest of the world varies a lot.


This post won't clear it all up about varying cultures and levels of development but it does cover part of what is here in Thailand: water parks.  To summarize, we visited three water parks in three weekend outings to Rayong, Thailand, about a three or four hour drive from Bangkok, depending on traffic.  There isn't much in this about tea.  I'll start with that part and explain why not, and anyone only interested in that subject can stop reading after the next section.

Cartoon Network Amazone park, one of two slide areas

The part about tea

tea bottle (black tea version in this)

On the first weekend outing I brought a compressed white tea formed into a candy bar shape to brew grandpa style in a tea bottle. That really did work well; the tea is forgiving about brewing time, so after a little infusion time (at a slightly high proportion) it was nice but subtle,  and after a long steep instead rich and flavorful.  It was a bit towards a mild coffee flavor as teas go, but still not astringent.


It worked well to control infusion time, to use longish 5 minute steeps and drain it out into a hotel glass, or to wait and drink it after a little cooling, still mixed with the leaves, truly prepared in that style.  There's more on which types work well made that way in this post.  As always it's really just my take, since it came up in a recent discussion pu'er drinkers will prepare sheng that way, which I don't like (I checked).


The next two weekends I decided to not bring tea, to take a break from it.  I've been writing posts about caffeine and fluoride as potential risks but it wasn't really about that.  The main risk related to those seems to be pushing it for high daily intake, drinking two liters of tea every day, or going through three or more infusion cycles.  All the same it seems a reasonable idea to "go off it" once in awhile, and travel served as a good time for that.


It was partly about renewing my love for tea by taking a few days away.  As a wise friend once said:  a true stoner takes a day off weed once in awhile.  I guess that recent post about people quitting tea blogging (only one of whom also let a tea habit drop) got me thinking about preference related to overdoing it, and a post in The Tea Addict's Journal referring to periodic stepping down in consumption to limit caffeine intake was also an inspiration.

that white tea bar; good for travel, quite compact

messing around with an "unchee" hair style

Other people post in tea discussion groups about bringing their Gongfu set-up on trips and enjoying natural settings with tea, or I guess preparing it in their hotel rooms, but with young kids the running themes are running late and moving lots of stuff around.  It's not like having a baby, when that gets ridiculous, the proportion of stuff to that small human, but time still gets crunched.  Things like taking a shower take a lot longer when they also relate to helping two other people take a shower.  I don't mind the hands-on father role approach, splitting up all the related tasks, which I enjoy, but it takes time.


The first day off tea I went cold turkey and suffered the typical headache.  I ended up drinking soda to self-medicate in a water park at mid-day, which only helps so much.  The next day I drank a small coffee to start the day and that worked better.  Even with drinking a little coffee this third weekend, a cup in the morning, I still ended up feeling hazy, and did afternoon naps.  It's as if the withdrawal doesn't just relate to caffeine, or maybe it's that dropping the caffeine intake level to very little only goes so far towards offsetting the symptoms.


It remains to be seen if I've really cleared my system somehow, or if it does help me reconnect more with tea.  I never stopped liking it, but some of the habit did become a bit mundane, partly about maintenance.  The aged shou mei I had with breakfast that first morning back I did seem to appreciate a little more for the time away.

local Thai market (not close to any themes here, but from one trip)

Three water parks

I'll say a little more about different types of culture and levels of society at the end in conclusions but this post isn't about all that.  The experiences at the parks tells that story more than I actually explain it.

The first trip was planned to see the Cartoon Network Amazone theme water park outside Pattaya, visiting Rayong instead for a change, a local town further South East of there.  We've been to Pattaya a dozen times or so and it's really a nightlife theme resort area, of sorts, so we decided to go somewhere else for a change, after visiting Korat in another direction for a few weekend outings last year.  On that first visit my daughter became sick so we visited the local park with my son instead.

Pattaya's main walking street area (credit)

Rayong Adventure Park (FB page link)

This place was different.  The slides and such here were all the "bouncy castle" type of equipment, a sort of rubber coated canvas, a bit lower end than the higher cost and quality infrastructure we were planning on experiencing in the Cartoon Network location.  I could imagine someone being turned off by that right away but I was open to seeing how it worked out, and it did go well.

at Rayong Adventure Park; big enough

A lot of the slides were smaller, the standard 15 foot high version one might see at a mall for an event or at a kids' birthday party.  The bigger versions were closer to 30 foot tall, getting up there.  In between those taller slides and a kid's play area based on a pool theme and a playground equipment area (a water theme version) there were maybe ten smaller slides, and beside that an obstacle course area.  It didn't have an amusement park or larger scale water park feel but there was plenty to do.


The main drawback related to the equipment type wasn't necessarily size, about the sliding experience, or safety, but related to that material scuffing your skin a little if you rubbed on it the wrong way.  All three of us came out of it with one or more mild abrasions (my daughter did join later in the day, and we went again during the next weekend when we finally did make it to Cartoon Network).  Of course entrance cost a lot less than the amusement-park scale versions, as I recall on the order of 250 baht for admission ($8 or so).  Food options were very limited; kind of a given.

Cartoon Network Amazone water park (between Pattaya and Rayong)

After years of planning to go to this and one last delay due to that illness we finally made it.  My first impression was that the place was really small; there were a lot of slides there, but packed into two dense structures over a small park space.  My plan was for my wife to help watch one of the kids while I went with the other so both could do different levels of slides, but that never did really work out.  She drifted into messing with food and gear most of the day so my son kind of went on his own (he's 8, fine for that, but having a partner makes him bolder to try bigger slide versions).  There wasn't much for young children; my daughter went on three or four different slides all day, I think, and only one a lot of times.

wave simulator and water volleyball pool

They also had a cool wave pool, with higher wave peaks in certain places than you would expect.  And there was a surfing area; Keoni did that a couple of times.  He was probably more familiar with it for taking surf lessons in Bali a couple months ago, but never did seem to work out the simulated version.  All in all the experience was nice.  It probably didn't live up to years of build-up but some of that related to logistics issues on our end, getting adult supervision squared away.  In a nod towards how theme parks go they had cartoon characters come out and do dance presentations periodically; that was nice.

the Power Puff girls were freaking out Kalani a little

Food options were broader, in between inexpensive local food options and the gouging that goes on in places like Disneyland, with lower cost local food versions helping them strike a nice balance.



The guests / visitors there were mixed, Thai and foreigners.  Standard entrance cost something like 1200 baht, I think it was, maybe around $40, so not bad as Disneyland pricing goes but high for local attractions of the type.  It seemed fair; the equipment was modern and extensive, and staffing and support was adequate.  At one point when looking for a shaded place to grab a nap (related to the caffeine withdrawal) it seemed that seating was limited, but I did find more options off to the far side of the larger slide area.

Ramayana water park (site link)

Both the Cartoon Network park and this place are recent offerings, with Cartoon Network a few years old and Ramayana only a year old now.  We've visited two water parks in Bangkok (my kids love water parks; the Pororo park is their favorite there), and versions in zoos in Korat and Kohn Kaen, and there's another modern, more extensive alternative in Hua Hin, so water parks do seem to be popular in Thailand.  They should be; it's hot.

one of three slide areas

Being the last place we visited I couldn't help but judge this park according to the others, and it stood up well to that.  It seemed like where Cartoon Network had designed a park around including a lot of extensive water slide infrastructure--the main component--Ramayana designed the park space and then decided what slide equipment would go with that.  The park itself was at least double the size of the Cartoon Network park space, but with the exception of children's area and slides the equipment may have been comparable.

Ramayana included a separate younger kid's area, with a space that even toddlers could walk around in and experience, and a slide area designed for kids under 10.  My daughter is 3 so it made a big difference for her.  Since my son is 8 he could do intermediate level slides, or almost all the biggest versions, but it helped him to play a bit there first and ramp up to the larger versions.

In terms of cost the places are about the same, in the 1200 baht / $40 dollar range for admission, not so bad.  Both places run specials, so there would be options to drop that, like visiting on the Thai Mother's day, as we just did.  I suppose that could still add up for frequent visitors, or price out some locals, but for someone visiting on a vacation it seemed quite reasonable.  That is one odd part though; families typically wouldn't visit Pattaya (some do, but it's generally not for that), and the beach areas where people would stay in Rayong are an hour's drive away, as we also were in the town center.  It takes 45 minutes to visit a different part of Bangkok due to traffic so that just seems normal for us.

kids' slide area (closed; they shut down a bit early)

They had a bit more going on for food offerings but the place still seemed to be growing into maturity for selling random stuff, which was probably as well.  Due to the large size and different areas there seemed to be a lot more seating (maybe also partly due to there being more seats).  Both places, here and Cartoon Network, rented small tent-like areas as an add-on, more comfortable enclosure seating.  It makes sense; if spending a bit over $100 (US) for family entrance seems trivial to a guest they should offer a value-add upsell, but using a pool-style recliner chair under an umbrella would probably be fine.  They worked for naps, at least.

Both places had wave pools (this one's wasn't quite as intense; kind of a shame), and "lazy rivers," and I think Ramayana had more space for just playing in a pool, if doing that would somehow make sense.  I guess adding more options works well for one happening to click with some child, like Cartoon Network having a water volleyball section, or Ramayana a sand-theme play area.


We worked out the division of parent supervision better this time, which related to me going down almost every large slide in this park.  I guess I liked that part.  I really loved the time with my son; it's nice doing things with them one at a time sometimes.  I think I was taking the caffeine withdrawal better the second time so I didn't mind climbing 100 floors worth of stairs so much, and a few of those slides really were exciting, helping me stay energized.

It's hard to say which park is better, and I think that would be different for different people.  For having a three year old I'd go with Ramayana, due to them having more equipment for younger children, but in another year with her getting more bold about slides that might balance out.  The larger park space there felt nicer to me too but there was a drawback to that, a good bit of added walking around.

what they do to get by between water park visits

Conclusions

This ended up a lot like a really long Trip Advisor review, didn't it?  Sort of tied to that, my wife also mentioned that safety seemed more closely controlled at Ramayana, that there were more monitoring staff, and I guess that was right.  I think safety matters more related to comparison with that local place, Rayong Adventure Park, where if you didn't monitor your own kids there conceivably could be some risk exposure (there were less people keeping an eye on things there).  I played with mine when they were in the larger slide area and obstacle course zones but I get it why people might tend to just let their kids go; chasing them step for step doesn't work well.


I'm reminded of my own childhood, of visiting an amusement park in the summers just across the Ohio border, the Conneaut Lake Park (which I guess is still there).  For some reason we were never into the water park area as kids, completely focused on roller coasters and such.  My parents wouldn't have turned me loose as a three year old but I do remember venturing out in that large park without adult supervision at a relatively young age; it was a different world then.  There was nothing at any of these water parks that seemed overly dangerous but part of the monitoring function is to protect kids from themselves, to help stop them from doing anything too stupid, which can come up.

there is a beach at Rayong, the Gulf of Thailand, just not great beaches

I had different vague ideas about what to conclude from this related to culture, or level of economic development.  I guess it already implies that the "third world" might not be so different than the US, or the rest.  People live different types of lives here, but then that's true of every country.  The average Thai family can visit these places, the expense would just be more of a burden to some, so that people in the bottom half of the income range might be less likely to.  Around 8000 baht per month serves as a minimum wage for Thailand (15,000 for those with college degrees), and a single entrance costs 1200 baht; it doesn't work out.

I'm not trying to claim that Thailand has everything the US has, or judge one place against another.  There are countless small differences.  Some aspects compare favorably, others don't, and some are just about regional differences, not about development level.

An example:  we stopped and picked up a good bit of tropical fruit on the way home, from a roadside vendor, at a guess 3 kilos of mangosteen, 5 of pineapple, 1 of longon, and 2 of rambutan, along with 6 kilos of Thai pumpkin.  Of course those things cost a lot less here (around 500 baht / $15 for all that), but beyond that value issue you couldn't find that range and quality of tropical fruit in most places in the US, regardless of what you wanted to pay for it.  It would be crazy to live somewhere just for the fruit, but it's only meant as an example.  It's not difficult or expensive to eat better than Americans tend to here, although it's not necessarily a given that someone would.

It's tropical here too; trading seasons and a winter for hot weather year round is different.  That comes in handy if you are really obsessive about water parks, more relevant for my kids than for most.

Eight fresh pineapples for $3; a pretty good deal.  Those are Thai pumpkins, a different type.

As a parent play areas come up but issues related to schools and medical care are more important.  Those seem to work out, but it's all too complicated to get into in a post about water parks.


To switch back to just a little Trip Advisor mode in closing, we visited two play areas in the Passione mall in Rayong this weekend too, with both well worth checking out.  Sometimes it seems like it's those two kids' world, and I'm just living in it, but I do love experiencing the joy they take in lots of things.

sushi bar at the Kidzoona play area (so it's pretend green tea, not my favorite)

Visiting Tea Village in Pattaya, Thailand, and about a Bai Mu Dan

Last week I visited the Tea Village shop in Pattaya, Thailand, the closest beach resort area to Bangkok, where I live.  Pattaya is famous for adult themed nightlife but we go there mostly for our kids to play in a hotel pool.  I had a nice visit with the owners, who had added a nice tea tasting area to a standard tea shop environment, a bit small but very well designed and comfortable, a great place to drink tea and chat.

a Pattaya show-girl, one of the main attractions there

I mention their Thai version of Bai Hao / Oriental Beauty most often in posts, a really nice tea.  This time I picked up some of a Bai Mu Dan / Peony, a Chinese white tea I missed out on the last time I ordered tea from them since I gave away what I bought earlier this year, to a monk and to a friend that visited.  I've had other versions before, and tried theirs, so I was really looking forward to drinking it again.

Thailand's most interesting tea drinker (nah, just kidding)

I suppose there's lots more I could say about the shop, their selection, tea-ware options there (which I didn't get around to reviewing much for talking too much), but I'll just mention that it's really worth a stop if you visit Pattaya, and they do sell online.


Those two teas I mentioned are in the range of mid-range quality tea pricing, and good value for that given what they are.  Some of the more modest Thai teas they sell are quite inexpensive, a good value for a different reason, and they carry different tisanes (herbs and floral teas), and blends, good for catering to a broad range of tastes.  Some other Thai tea vendors are set up more for sourcing the highest levels of specialty teas but demand is so limited that it also sort of doesn't come up much.

Review of the Bai Mu Dan / Peony style white tea

The general profile is familiar from drinking a Ceylon version of a Peony / Bai Mu Dan lately.  It's subtle, rich, and full, but light in terms of how flavors stand out, altogether a nice balance.  Flavors that do emerge are light hay, along the line of sunflower seed, and some light floral, like the less sweet and aromatic aspects of chrysanthemum range.  Or maybe chamomile is closest, but with a little more going on.



The rest, the general effect, is hard to describe.  It's smooth, full in feel, clean, and subtle, but complex (in a limited sense).  Based on the dry and brewed tea color the oxidation level is relatively low, not far from a green tea, in the light oolong level, but there is no astringency at all, no grassiness, and it's not vegetal.

I could imagine people loving this style of tea or not liking it at all,  even more than for other types.  It's so light in terms of pronounced flavors that it's almost odd that I like it as much as I do, since I generally prefer more oxidized oolongs and black teas.


That Ceylon Bai Mu Dan version (which I had reviewed in this post, a tea originally made by Ebony Springs that I tried from Luka cafe) is interesting for sharing so much common ground and also for being so different.  The richness, complexity,  and subtlety are the same but the flavors profile is different.  It expresses very light mineral tones, extending into a light wood or hay range, where the teas' aspects start to overlap, and there is one more aspect I couldn't place as easily.

that Ceylon, like a Bai Mu Dan, a bit broken for being the end of the bag

Mineral is really a range, of course,  different for high mountain Taiwanese teas, Wuyi Yancha, and Vietnamese green teas.  I can't specify a rock for that Ceylon but it reminds me of the smell of red clay.  There is no mineral component in the Tea Village version, and neither tea is particularly sweet.  There is an effect of brightness and freshness that isn't easy to trace to other individual aspects, in both, maybe more a part of the Chinese version style.

After drinking through nearly 50 grams of the Ceylon Bai Mu Dan I've got it, related to that one element that was hard to place:  forest floor!  You just never get to say that, even though it turns up on those tea flavor wheels, and it sounds like a tea might eventually taste like that.

fall color in Western PA (photo credit)

I'll add a little more about the "forest floor" idea, although I'd expect that would be familiar ground for many.  Different forests smell different, and the same places smell differently at various times of the year.  It could be intended to mean the same thing as peat, or it could be used quite differently.  I'm from Western Pennsylvania, so I really do miss that fresh, fragrant, intense vegetal smell of the spring forest, or the warmer, woodier, more diverse summer smell, dryer and more earthy then, and especially that rich, warm, almost root or bark spice intensive smell of the fall leaves.  Colorado mountain forests were more subtle in general, with the smell of rocks playing a larger role, and with vegetal tones like sage coming across in places.

This tea smells (tastes) more like fall, like the heaps of oak and maple leaves that are beautiful to see before they fall.  As a child I would pile up those leaves and play in them, and stuff clothes with them to make something like a scarecrow; it's a familiar smell.  The forest smell includes the ground too, and that matches with the very subdued mineral tones.

How to summarize?  Bai Mu Dan style teas can be nice, and diverse.  Floral and sweeter elements could've potentially been more pronounced in both but the aspects and profiles they did have worked really well; no need for all lighter teas to be fruity or floral and sweet.