Tea Side 2018 Thai "bitter leaf" sheng, 2019 steamed green

sheng left, green right (kind of similar though)

These two teas don't pair as closely in style as they might, following my own convention of trying very similar teas together, but it should work.  I just started dabbling in green tea again, and beyond adjustment for brewing temperature difference the character won't be completely separate.

It might be closer if this was a pan-fried green, versus being steamed, processed as sheng and Longjing green teas are instead of the main heating approach used for Japanese teas.  That difference should be interesting though, [as it turns out it was, since the green tea was nothing I would've expected].

Vendor descriptions:

2018 Bitter Leaf Raw Pu-erh Tea

Raw pu-erh tea made from Thai bitter leaf tea tree material.

This sheng does not resemble Bulang, nor Lao Man Er, nor other Chinese regions. But that is how I describe the organoleptic properties... The bitterness is so edible, soft. Without citrus notes - closer to the fragrant fresh wormwood. Now, if we add more sweet wildflowers and a drop of vanilla to this fragrant bitterness, then we get this sheng.

Many puerh producers seek to collect the harvest from sweet trees. And we, of course, understand them in this - everyone loves sweet tea, it is easy to sell, etc. But we are convinced that bitter-leaf pu-erh is seriously undervalued for two main reasons:

It has a powerful fragrant Huygan. That is not just a returning sweetness but a very fragrant sweet aftertaste.  It has a very potent relaxing and sedative Qi effect...


This is being sold for $70 for a 200 gram cake, so presented as above average quality tea related to the pricing.


Steamed old tree source green tea:

For this tea, we used Japanese traditional technology for steamed green tea but adapted it to the specifics of the material from old trees. It took several experiments to figure out the optimum steaming depth in order to remove the astringency of a powerful pu-erh leaf but to preserve the freshness and aroma of light and delicate green tea...

The aroma is sweet, appleish and floral. On the palate is a beautiful, whole and full-bodied mix of fruity-floral tropical notes. In the foreground are apples, plumeria and a bouquet of garden flowers. The finish is sweet and oily. The infusion is light, transparent, with a light green tint.


Sounds good; we'll see.  I never do add or read these vendor descriptions until the editing step, and giving this a quick scan later that sounds about right, essentially how I described it.

This tea version sells for $10 for 50 grams; reasonable enough if it really is a novel and high quality version of green tea.

Review:

sheng left; interesting brewed color difference

2018 "bitterleaf" ancient tree Thai sheng:  this definitely does have some bitterness to it; it's just getting started and it could already pass for a good version of Myanmar sheng.  The tree / plant types there must vary, because although most I've tried were on the bitter side the last sheng that I tried from Kokang wasn't.  This tea is pleasant; bitterness stands out but sweetness balances that.  Flavors are clean and feel has some thickness to it.  That range might even include some dried fruit.  Waiting a round for a more complete break-down makes sense.

2019 Spring 2019 steamed green from ancient trees in Thailand:  I didn't expect that to be like Japanese green teas, and it's not, but I also didn't expect how it is.  The flavors are warm and floral, with a bit of dried fruit supporting that, along the line of dried persimmon or even peach.  So much for concern over this being overly vegetal.

Green teas are never rich and warm in flavor and tone like this.  From the color it doesn't look like they've let it oxidize to warm the tone and shift character; it turned out that way via other causes.  Feel is on the soft side but with pretty good fullness.  It gives up aftertaste range in comparison with the sheng, but then that's how that would go.

Second infusion

2018 bitterleaf Thai sheng:  flavor warms a little. The bitterness is really nice, paired with a lot of residual sweetness.  Astringency isn't part of that; the feel is full and rich but not rough in any way.  It's just bitter.  Mineral undertones support that, warm versions of them, and subtle floral range rounds out the experience, trailing over into mild dried fruit range.  At some point splitting out flavor range over different levels gets to be guesswork and imagination, but to go there the fruit covers hints of nectarine and tangerine.

2019 steamed Thai green:  I really didn't expect this to stand up to the other tea as well, to be anywhere near as pleasant, on a few different levels.  Of course bitterness, feel, and aftertaste aren't comparable but the flavor range is great, the feel isn't thin at all, and overall experience complexity is good.  It's not vegetal, not grassy, like vegetables, and so on.  A faint trace of bitterness and some degree of residual sweetness adds complexity; both are more typical of sheng range, and not as pronounced as in this other sheng version, but they match up well against more modest quality sheng version character.  Warm mineral plays more of a role in this infusion, and it does seem to be swapping out some floral and fruit range for wood tone or mild vegetable, more like tree branch bud at this point.

Third infusion

2018 sheng:  I've been giving this around a 10 second infusion, based on also brewing the other version at the same time.  At this proportion it would work well faster too, using 6 seconds or so, not quite a flash infusion but a quick one.  It's not bad like this but there's more than enough intensity, so it just depends on preference for that level.

Lighter probably would be better.  Bitterness is still pleasant but it is a little strong.  The warm supporting tones, covering underlying mineral range, floral tones, and dried fruit, are pleasant, but the overall balance would probably work better quite light.  This might be shifting from dried fruit to include more wood tone as well, cured hardwood or something such, or closer to tree bark, maybe even a little towards tobacco.  It will be easier to split that out using a lighter infusion.

2019 steamed Thai green:  the overall effect isn't coming across in describing flavor as a list.  It's a bit creamy, with an interesting rich, full character.  Warm floral along the line of rose petal stands out now, with warm fruit range still around dried persimmon.  There is still a touch of flavor edge and mild astringency along the lines of tree bud tip or flower petal or stem, but not much, so it works to give it balance.  Sweetness level is nice; it balances all that. 

Fourth infusion:

2018 "bitterleaf" Thai sheng:  this is still bitter and plenty intense but it does balance better brewed faster, using a 5-6 second infusion time.  It's still cool the way that sweetness kicks in while you still drink the tea, and gets a lot stronger after you swallow it.  This has about as much residual sweetness (hui gan) as sheng ever tends to.  Other supporting range is still transitioning a little but not too far off where it was in the last round, mixing earlier floral and fruit flavors in with developing warm wood tone, probably closest to tree bark.

2019 steamed Thai green:  this hasn't transitioned much.  Maybe that rose petal floral tone is really closer to lavender, which could relate to me getting it wrong earlier instead of that changing.  Lavender tends to have a strong, rich, sweet smell, even when the scent isn't strong, and this is like that.  Again including some bitterness and trailing aftertaste gives this nice complexity.  It has less feel structure than the sheng while you drink it; it feels a little full but not in the same way.

Fifth infusion:

2018 "bitterleaf" Thai sheng:  not too much transition to speak of; the balance of earlier aspects may be shifting a little, but not in any way that changes much.  Bitterness might be tapering off just a little, with other range filling in more, balancing against that more.  Again a wood tone is picking up, more even in level against floral and other flavor range.

2019 steamed Thai green:  it's nice how this is working out well being brewed using parameters pretty close to those for sheng.  I'm using slightly cooler water, nowhere near 70 C, probably closer to what the parameter tables list for oolong brewing, 85.  Given this feel is soft, with just a touch of astringency edge, it would probably still be fine brewed just off boiling point, or even at it.  I don't think it would be better, or probably as good, but it seems likely that would work.

This hasn't changed much either.  Creaminess is really nice, along with rich, sweet flavor complexity.  Floral tone stands out the most but it would work to interpret part of the brighter note as a hint of citrus, probably closest to tangerine.  Most of the flavor range is warmer and richer, but that brighter range contributes too, giving it nice complexity.  That may be what green teas tend to lack, beyond tasting vegetal, like grass or vegetables; they usually don't cover this range of complexity, for flavors or feel aspects, or including as much trailing sweetness aftertaste as this does.  A lot of sheng drinkers would like this better if some of the bitterness in the other sheng version added to all that, but that is subjective.

interesting color difference, for a year and a half of aging

The next infusion wasn't so different (the sixth); I'll skip the separate description.  Bitterness drops off in the sheng, and picks up in the green tea version, seemingly a function of going longer on the infusion time.  The green is finally picking up just a trace of vegetable tone, along the line of kale.  From here more of that will occur, as infusion times run longer to keep up intensity aspect proportions will shift as a result.  Both teas are still quite pleasant but not quite as nice as in the earlier cycle.

Conclusions

In trying a Longjing from Yunnan recently I was surprised that it included so much intensity, complexity, and sweetness, as this green tea version also did.  That tea started out with more of the characteristic nutty / toasted rice flavor aspect, then shifted more to floral, mineral undertone, and other flavor, much closer to this version.  Both were as good as any green teas I've yet to try, lacking the vegetable range flavors and astringency that I don't care for in green teas.  This version was probably a little more novel, not quite as intense in flavor but with more unusual character, with a lot going on.  This might be the fruitiest green tea I've tried, and possibly the creamiest in feel.

This sheng was nice.  Bitterness did stand out, matching the billing.  Astringency didn't, at all; interesting it could be that bitter without including much of that.  Feel structure was more complex than in the green tea version though, with good trailing sweetness in both, but a much stronger related effect in the sheng.  This sheng was a relatively high quality version, but the novel character stood out more than that.  Bitterness in young sheng is normal; that particular form of bitterness and the aspect range coupled with it is not.

It was interesting that the color showed as much aging as it did for the sheng, but then a year and a half enables more transition here in Thailand than in cooler, dryer climates.

Thai sheng maocha and Vietnamese old-tree source green

Thai sheng left, Vietnamese ancient tree green right

I'm comparison tasting an ancient tree Vietnamese green tea with a Thai version of sheng pu'er from Lampang Tea (only similar to pu'er, really, since that's used as a Yunnan region-specific designation).  This green tea is another that Huyen Dinh passed on in that visit a month or so back, with a white tea version and Northern Vietnamese sheng version reviewed here.  It's nice having tea friends like that.

I love this family picture of Huyen (she's on the left)

A bit about the "ancient tree" source part for the green tea:  it's not the same type of claim as is made for gushu sheng, even though it's talking about roughly the same plants, and it certainly sounds like it.  The quality of sheng pu'er has come to be associated with the age of the tea plants, which evolved into related claims meaning a certain thing, and to some of those being exaggerated.  Related to green tea in Vietnam they're just describing the plant origin; it's not really used as a claim to a type, quality, or aspect range of the tea, as I understand it.

that Lampang Tea Moonlight version was cool looking

That tea style always reminded me of sheng, and this will be a good way to check on the overlap, even though the Thai version might not be typical of a style of Yunnan sheng, and those vary a good bit anyway.  I mentioned making that type association in this post three years ago, after a visit to Hanoi; funny how rough those reviews seemed back then.


In the last post on a Moonlight White tea by the same vendor I mentioned that they also compress this Thai tea into tuochas, which I'm nearly certain applies to this tea version.

Lampang Tea Thai sheng tuochas

Review

I often go a bit light on the first infusion, to see where things are going to go and get a feel for tweaking brewing approach, as I did this time.

The Vietnamese green tea is nice, sweet and complex, a bit earthy, and a little dry.  It has some vegetal range, with a mineral base that seems common with a lot more typical style green teas from Vietnam, in particular with those fish-hook style Thai Nguyen originated teas.  The astringency is moderated for using cooler temperature water (just over 70 C), but it has plenty of feel from what is present.  The sweetness stays present nicely as an aftertaste aspect.

The Thai sheng is quite different (or sheng-like tea, if you really don't use that term too for pu'er-like teas outside of Yunnan, but why wouldn't you).  It's fruity; not unheard of in Yunnan sheng but not how that usually works out.  It has some mineral structure that gives it a touch of dryness too but not as much astringency as the Vietnamese tea, even though I'm using hotter water to brew it (not full boiling point, around 90 C).  The character is quite positive; complex, intense, and bright.

The green tea is a lot more broken, almost chopped, really, and that one factor alone might account for a lot of the difference in astringency, possibly as much or more of the type difference.  Of course estimating the proportion of that input difference would just be a guess.  I can notice clear patterns in having tried a lot of different versions of teas but extending that to assigning cause and effect is difficult.

they look similar brewed; the sheng was slightly darker in some rounds

Second infusion

This was a fast infusion, around 10 seconds, but this green tea is bordering on brewed too strong.  It's still in an ok range, it works, but this tea is probably better suited for a light version of Western style brewing than for a Gongfu approach.  Just another guess, of course, but that one I can check during a breakfast this week.  Somehow the astringency is moderate for this, down to just a bit of edge and dryness, low considering the flavor intensity level.  The sweetness is really nice in this; any more intense and it would be too much.


That flavor range seems mostly floral.  It's complex; a catchy kind of floral that seems like a mix of flowers, maybe something like orchid and violet.  I keep smelling plumeria since they grow around our house and on the walk to school I do with my daughter; it's not too far from those.  They're really sweet and pleasant.  We just picked two from the yard and they smells different than the ones that grown along a local sidewalk, or at the pool where those two do lessons, a lot more lemony.

that plumeria in the yard (just blooming a little now)

with her in the other yard section

The Thai sheng is in such a different range comparison tasting won't help in terms of outlining common ground.  These are vaguely similar, in a sense, but not in enough of a sense listing out common ground for aspects would work.  The general character runs in a slightly similar direction but that's about it.  This tea is fruity, as the main aspect that hits you.  Beyond that there's an earthiness, a light mineral tone.  It's softer in feel than the green but has decent complexity.  I'll do more with teasing apart a flavor list next round.

Thai tea left; Huyen said the other was roughed up a bit in transit

Third infusion

The Vietnamese green is still really intense and pleasant; that sweetness and pronounced floral falls into a nice balance with the feel and faint trace of bitterness.  It's a bit sweeter and more floral than sheng tends to come across, without all that much vegetal background in this infusion, but some.  The taste of that relates to the bitterness, as if it's similar to dandelion green.  To me it all works together, but it would depend on preference how one takes it.

The Thai sheng is warmer, richer in flavor, also sweet and complex, but more towards fruit versus floral tone.  Mineral range seems to pick up, drawing that one part of the tea closer to the other Vietnamese green version.  The flavor is a bit complex, not so easy to unpack.  It's really in between floral and fruit (transitioning some, maybe), or spans a range that integrates as one related set.  The floral range is nondescript (to me), with the fruit a little towards juicyfruit gum, something bright and sweet, like dried mango.  It doesn't have the same degree of bitterness but other range fills in so that it doesn't come across as really simple.  At the same time it's not challenging, and it is on the light, sweet, and approachable side as sheng can go.

People familiar with a limited range of sheng might have trouble relating to placing that.  Wild tree versions tend to be softer, milder, and sweeter than commercial plantation source teas, at least in my experience.  To be clear it is hard to separate the effect of factory teas' leaves from tending to be quite broken and more wild-sourced versions from not.  That's mixing a few levels of input, isn't it, not just tree source and processing but also producer type?  Maybe it works better to just describe these teas.

Fourth infusion

The Vietnamese green is transitioning to being warmer, slightly earthier, and more complex, moving past a more simple expression of just sweet floral tone, with the mineral and slight bitterness "below" that.  It starts to trail into spice a bit.  The bitterness fades back even further; it's nice at this balance, with lots of floral still coming across.

Bitterness picks up for the Thai sheng version; these teas have essentially met related to that factor.  The sheng I'm brewing a good bit hotter though, which would tend to draw that out more.  The fruit range has shifted in balance to more floral overall.  They're still not really close as aspects sets go but much closer than in earlier rounds; they overlap a good bit now.  The feel of this tea is full but not as dry.  I'd expect brewing leaves versus a chopped tea would account for a lot of that, and at least some of the difference in bitterness.

It would be difficult to place them related to each other to the same degree based on drinking them separately, one day after the other.  Trying one then the other just after would help; the tea aspects could stand out in memory better.  But the the round by round direct comparison and matching up of individual aspects wouldn't be the same.

Thai tea left; only slightly different

Fifth infusion

These teas aren't even close to fading but not really transitioning much either.  In the Vietnamese green tea that balance of sweetness, floral tone, warmer flavor complexity, trace of bitterness, full feel and sweet aftertaste is nice.  It works.

It's interesting how similar the Thai tea is, how all those aspects are matched by slightly different versions in the Thai sheng, which balance a little differently.  It would be possible to tease it all out, describing how floral, sweetness, the trace of warmer earthier range, and overall balance are all different, but all related.  It would just be more trouble than it's worth for being informative.  That trace of more vegetal range in the green tea stands out as a difference, swapped out for fruit in the other, and the astringency (feel) is a little different, but these are closer than I expected.

The next round is more of the same; bitterness seems to be picking up a little in both.  I still really like both teas though.

Conclusions

It's interesting how they started so different and drew closer, and interesting they're that similar for being two different tea types.  Those "ancient tree" Vietnamese green teas always did remind me of sheng, and it's interesting to try them alongside each other to see just how close they are, or ways they don't match.  It helps that they're both nice versions of the different types.

It's hard to put this Thai tea on a scale for being typical of some version of Yunnan sheng.  Those vary a lot in character, by region, related to processing and source material, and quality, by lots of factors.  It works well as a young tea but it might have enough of the right aspect range to benefit from aging, but at this point that's more of a guess.  I really should buy a couple of tuochas and check on that, since the pricing seems fine for what the tea is.  They cover that in their FB vendor page, and the last post on a Moonlight White version includes a conversion from baht (which isn't that tricky; it's usually around 32 or 33 to 1 USD).

Thai Ancient Tree and Ruan Zhi black teas

I'm comparing three samples of black teas I've just purchased from Tea Side.  Last year I bought a few Dian Hong from Farmerleaf so in a sense this works as a follow-up, tasting comparable Thai versions.  Only two of the three are made from Assamica plant types, and not exactly in the Yunnan style similar to Dian Hong (more on that after the review section), and the third is a Ruan Zhi based black tea instead.  That's a cultivar similar to Jin Xuan, just different in nature, the #17 instead of #12 in that Taiwanese developed and cataloged cultivar series.


Per some reliable input the name for that plant type probably should be Bai Lu, and the more conventional designation in Thailand as Ruan Zhi isn't actually right.  Or really that was confusing, since vendors often mixing a number designation and a name that didn't match always made it impossible to know which one it was, which label is right, and Tea Side (the vendor) hasn't actually called this #17. I'm making that connection because those are the two main oolong plant types grown in Thailand, which also get used for making black tea, but it's much less common seeing Ruan Zhi (or Bai Lu / #17) based black teas than Jin Xuan.  Per that prior research Ruan Zhi was more of a category name, a more general designation that was either tied to an original plant or to a grouping of plants instead.  Here's the post that goes through that, and that related idea:


Ruǎn Zhī is the predecessor group of tea plants that Qīng Xīn Wūlóng came from. It is a bit problematic referring to it (or Qīng Xīn in some cases) as a cultivar, as that word should be exclusively applied to clonal plants while Ruǎn Zhī has been established and spread through seed, with  the derived Qīng Xīn also sometimes being spread by seed. Neither have an assigned Táichá number, because even if Qīng Xīn essentially was borne out of the Fujian Ruǎn Zhī seed stock in Taiwan it is not a registered clone.

TTES No. 17 'Báilù' ('Egret') is a true registered cultivar - note the use of single quotes - established in 1983...

a lot to take in, with more to read up on in the original source

Qing Xin is the main original plant type used in Taiwan for oolongs (or Chin Shin, as transliterated in that table), at least per my understanding.  At any rate I'd expect this tea to be made in a Taiwanese style instead of as a Yunnan tea, and since it is Camellia Sinensis variety Sinensis instead of an Assamica plant that will also change things.  It's the only tea of the three I've already been drinking, so I already know how it is.  It is like Taiwanese black tea, similar to what gets sold as honey black (typically produced from Jin Xuan, unless I've got that wrong), but it's different.  The review will cover all that, so onto it.

from left, 2018 Ruan Zhi, the 2017 and 2016 ancient tree versions

2018 Ruan Zhi black

2017 ancient tree black

2016 ancient tree black tea, less oxidized (and lighter in color)

Review

The three teas look quite different and brew to much different colors.  I won't say much about that--the pictures describe it--and just move onto tasting.  I could pick up variations in dry leaf scent too but since brewed tea flavors can vary a good bit from that for comparison reviews that are going to run long I skip making notes on that part too.  As for methodology I'm using water just a bit below boiling point, roughly 95 C / a bit over 200 F, and a probably a bit more than optimum for the gaiwans, typical for proportioning for different tea types.


Ruan Zhi:  the tea is nice; rich, sweet, and complex.  It's generally fruity with a dark earth range of flavors mixed in, along the lines of sweet dark cherry with leather.  I suppose some of that fruit one might describe as another dried fruit, mandarin orange peel, or a bit towards tamarind.  The earthiness could be described in different ways too, or as trailing into cinnamon spice, with cocoa also standing out.  It all works.  The feel might be just a little thin, but then that's how similar Taiwanese style blacks tend to come across too, as very positive in flavor and thin in texture and finish.  They don't tend to last long either, producing a few infusions (or a couple, made in a truer Western style), then fading out.


2017 Black tea from ancient trees number 6 (maybe as well to just use that year or number):  this tea is intense, brewed a little strong using the same parameters.  I often go with a short infusion when brewing black teas or other types Gongfu style but went the other way with that this time, letting it brew for well over 30 seconds to get a full strength infusion, and for this tea at that proportion that was too long.  It not only got wet to start infusing it also overbrewed a little.  It probably does make sense to use a rinse for these teas instead of a long first infusion anyway, I just tend to mix up the approach.  It's always opposites day in this blog, versus shooting for optimization.

It has a somewhat similar dark cherry aspect that stands out in it; interesting it worked out that way, that a main flavor aspect matched.  And someone might describe this earthiness as leather, but it's relatively different.  The first would resemble a clean, bright, sweet scent of a hand-bag or expensive jacket, and this is closer to a bomber jacket or baseball glove.  It has an unusual dryness to it, which does work.  One layer of aspects is not far off coffee; that's different.  In this case I mean a very light roast, that cocoa-range coffees can express, not French roast char, which is a lot more common in roasted teas.  Or that could just be interpreted as cocoa.  Brewed just a little lighter this balance is going to work better; the intensity is a bit much with the way the feel works, and the flavors are dialed up too much.  It's just a little sour; that might throw off a positive impression a little.  It's good tea too though; no doubt about that.


2016 ancient tree medium oxidized number 1:  very different than the other two, but with some overlap.  Fruit is a common ground for all three, which works really well for me since I love different forms of fruit in teas.  For someone else they might hate these teas for that; funny how preference really could vary.  This infusion strength is pretty good; it works.  It has a touch of dryness too, and a similar pairing of fruit towards dried cherry / tamarind with underlying cocoa / leather / aged hardwood, but comes across quite differently related to balance of aspects and different feel.  It feels smooth and a bit juicy compared the previous one being full and a bit dry.  That fruit is quite different, even though it does overlap; I'll have another go at describing it next round.

That "medium oxidized" part in the vendor description probably did play a role in how this tea came across, but throughout these notes the importance of that doesn't stand out, and I don't get around to saying anything about it.  The earlier 2017 version brewed leaf looks lighter, but the brewed tea liquid is a lot darker, and again I'll not try to make too much of those differences.  The first and third teas in this round didn't come across as overbrewed, just prepared slightly strong, but the second did.

that first round; brewed a bit long, especially for the 2017 version (middle)

Second infusion

Ruan Zhi:  not a lot of development or transition, but it does brew another positive infusion using a very short brew time, around 15 seconds.  It's fruity, but really that cocoa / cinnamon aspect stands out most, and then a fruit (dark cherry, mostly, which could be interpreted differently), then the earthier layers supporting that.  The feel is still a little thin but the aftertaste picks up a little, giving an impression of more depth.  I do like the way that flavor set works.  It's not far off how Jin Xuan blacks come across but maybe a little more complex for flavor range, but then those can vary.  I suppose it's heavier on cocoa and spice than most of what I've tried for Thai Jin Xuan black tea versions, which are more fruity, but Taiwanese versions can be like this.  There's just a touch of balsa wood type mustiness, which can be a negative factor in some Taiwanese black teas (unless that unusual range seems positive to someone, then it's a positive one).  It doesn't stand out though, and for me it works in combination with the rest, more giving it complexity than throwing it off.


2017 ancient tree:  it's much nicer just a little lighter, and the flavor / effect is "cleaning up" some.  The sourness drops off and the feel gains some juiciness, not quite as full in a way that contributes a bit of dry feel.  A flavors list won't do this tea justice for catching the overall complexity and intensity.  Another tea could be almost exactly the same in what it expresses but lack this level of intensity, and not have the same effect.  That list:  sweetness, fruit (dark cherry, to me), cocoa, leather, a touch of coffee.  In talking about that dry feel what I mean is the way a lightly brewed, lightly roasted, good version of coffee comes across.

The structure (in the sense of feel) is different in coffee than for tea, and this leans towards that.  But the feel is full, the aftertaste experience is fine, and the flavor intensity and range is good, so the overall effect if very nice.  That last part, the flavor range, is interesting.  That sweet dried fruit gives it an interesting higher note and a clean version of earthiness a good base, with some cocoa in between, so it covers a lot of ground.  There's even a trace of what someone might see as mild mint developing.  That bit of sourness faded quite a bit, and I'd expect given that transition difference it won't be noticeable in the next round at all.


2016 ancient tree:  this is transitioning, the most of the three, beyond that dry texture and touch of sourness dropping out of the 2017 version.  The fruit has diminished and it's picking up a woody aspect, swapping out some range closer to cocoa and leather for that.  The tea can't be finishing up yet; it's hardly getting started.  It will be interesting to see where that leads though.  It lends it an interesting character since it starts to resemble malt more too, but it's lighter and less intense than the other two now.  I'd expect it to last a lot longer related to overall intensity than the first but not the second.  We'll see.  In going back and trying the three again, the last of the cups, I think this tea might've seemed less intense for trying it just after the 2017 version.  It's normal in flavor intensity, but that 2017 one before it was unusual for the high level of intensity.

Ruan Zhi left, 2017 top, 2016 lower right

same order.  the color difference is interesting.

Third infusion

Ruan Zhi:  more of the same from the last infusion, based on using relatively short infusion times, not quite 15 seconds.  If anything that same balance of flavors is working even better now, adjusting to an evenness that really works.  Fruit balances spice and clean earthiness, the same aspects I won't run through describing again.  Again the texture is a little thin but the aftertaste compensates for that.  I don't mean it has significant aftertaste in comparison with good young sheng or high mountain Taiwanese oolong, of course.  A few seconds after drinking the tea the flavor is still there, and thirty seconds later it's still tapering off.  With intense young sheng just after drinking it the flavor can seem to strengthen, stronger than when it was actually in your mouth, and minutes later it might not diminish all that much.  It still gives an impression of a more complex experience as it is.


2017:  this tea's balance really fell together; that intense, structured feel softened and isn't dry, and the sourness is gone.  It has lots more flavor (in terms of both intensity and range), more thickness of feel, and more aftertaste effect than the Ruan Zhi.  That Ruan Zhi is a nice black tea but this is on a different level.  These teas weren't presented as being close to Dian Hong in style (typical Yunnan black tea) but since they are from Assamica plants from a nearby region I'll mention some comparison.  It's not as if a Dian Hong style black couldn't be more complex and intense, beyond just being different in lots of ways, but this character works well for me.  The flavor range varies a good bit in those so to me saying it's typical or not typical of a Dian Hong is problematic.  Some really are like this.  Or it seems possible there are conventions about what should or shouldn't be called "Dian Hong" from Yunnan that aren't clearly identified or adhered to by a lot of producers and vendors.

That reminds me; what I've been describing as dark cherry really could be interpreted as roasted sweet potato instead, just a sweet, clean version of one.  It probably is closer to that, at least in this round for this tea.  It's not like roasted yam, it doesn't seem to me, not that rich, softer, "deeper" flavor complexity towards pumpkin range, more the light, sweeter part.  I think the cherry might have worked better as a description in the earlier rounds, and it's moving towards this now, with the whole cocoa / leather layer thinning a bit.


2016:  this transitions too.  Roasted sweet potato works as a description for this too, just not as well.  The cocoa and cinnamon effect is picking up relative strength instead of dropping back.  In part due to going with lighter infusions the leather and earthiness is more subdued in all of these; simply brewing the teas stronger would make that stand out more.  The lighter, sweeter, more subtle fruit, spice, and roasted root vegetable range would increase in strength more but the proportion would shift how that's perceived, with a different feel mixing with and varying taste experience.  All that makes you wonder if I'm just making all this up, to some extent, doesn't it?  That last part did start in on some guessing.

This third tea could be brewed a little stronger to be ideal.  It works well as I'm making it but it's less intense than the other two.  Did two years of aging give it more depth and a cleaner effect at the cost of dropping intensity a little, shifting some fruit to spice?  Who knows.  I think personal preference would dictate which of these three is better.  The last two are a lot more interesting to me, and seem more complex.  I suppose I like the second the best, but some aspect range others wouldn't necessarily like, especially that bit of dryness and sourness in the first two infusions, which this 2016 version didn't express.  It would be possible to get this third tea to draw more even with the second in terms of intensity just by brewing it slightly longer, not doubling time to compensate for it being a weaker tea, just adding some seconds to adjust that.  I think the overall range of the second would still be broader though; it has a lot going on.  Judging by the first two infusions it probably wasn't as good as the other two but judging by this last one I see it as the best of the three.

this was around a 15 second infusion, on the moderate side but still dark

Fourth infusion:

Ruan Zhi:  this tea might well be thinning a bit now.  I gave those around a 25 to 30 second infusion, so not really lengthened a lot yet to account for losing intensity but some.  I am using a high proportion of tea and all those other infusion times were limited, after going a bit long on the first one.  The same aspects are there, nice sweetness, cocoa and cinnamon spice standing out, but it's diminishing.


2017:  the flavor is shifting a little, some of that sweet potato transitioning to catchy flavor that's hard to isolate.  It's more towards a dark toffee, but the flavor includes different version of dried fruit, a little like a dried mango or dried papaya, but "darker."  I bet there is some dried fruit out there this closely resembles but I'll probably not get to making that connection.  Dried papaya is as close as I'll get, or to connect that with something a Western audience was more likely to try towards date, but not quite that earthy.


2016:  the balance seems similar to the last round in the this third tea.  The balanced complexity works; it covers plenty of range.  One part reminds me a little of the mild mint in teaberry, which was part of what was going on in the 2017 version earlier, I think.  You can eat those "berries," from teaberries, but I don't think they're actually really berries.  And I've read you can dry and brew the leaves, and that they'll even oxidize, if you could manage to bruise them.  If any readers have experience with this I'd like to hear of it.


All of these teas would probably benefit from increasing the infusion time to 40 seconds or so.  It would've worked better to split that first infusion into two, so I'd be on the fifth round now.  The teas aren't fading yet (or maybe just the first one is), but they need longer times to keep up intensity.  Assamica based black teas generally seem to last longer, and they tend to produce positive infusions even when you need to run out steep times to longer to get more out of them.  In a Western style brewing cycle that might relate to getting a third infusion instead, depending on proportion used, and letting them soak awhile.  Experimenting with transitioning from slightly cooler water to hotter water later on is interesting too, but to me just using water a bit off boiling point (95 C / 200 F range) works just as well, and keeps things simpler.  Of course if messing around and noticing variation is the idea simpler isn't necessarily better.

Fifth infusion:

I went over 30 seconds for this infusion but elected to check what they have left for intensity and drink a slightly weaker round instead of running it out to closer to a minute to get a stronger version.  I'm just going to add some thoughts instead of detailed review, and these will brew a couple more infusions at longer times.

The Ruan Zhi is still nice, just thinning.  Again longer times would compensate for that.  The flavor profile is still nice, that cocoa / cinnamon range, it's just narrowing slightly.  It is interesting the way a touch of balsa wood base more or less dropped back; those longer times might bring that out more again.

The other two are pretty much where they were in the last round.  Using longer times in late cycles shifts aspects in different ways, in lots of cases drawing out more of a wood tone, and changing feel, but I don't necessarily see that as part of the main experience of a tea.  It's nice when the last two or three longer infusions stay really positive, versus not so nice, and these will be fine.  The overall intensity of the 2016 version is now even with the 2017; funny how that one tea seemed to brew faster through a lot of that cycle, how it was more intense at the same brewing time, beyond covering a slightly broader range.

Conclusions

not even the whole Tea Side selection; there are six more black teas, and lots of oolong and pu'er-like versions

So I was trying a 2016 Old Trees Black Tea Medium Oxidized, the first tea on the top left, and the second from the left on the bottom.  Why didn't I order Dian Hong style black teas instead?  The Tea Side owner included some tea samples; maybe I will get back with a review of one or more versions of those.


Dian Hong vary a lot in character, and assessing quality level and trueness to type are two different things.  It would be difficult to summarize if these teas were as good as better than most Yunnan blacks, or if it matched that broad range of style and aspect sets as well.  Related to aspects, Dian Hong often go further with including a roasted yam aspect instead, and one I've tried not too long ago expressed a lot more cocoa than these, and general intensity (one of the best Dian Hong versions I've tried, just not one that's commercially available, as far as I know).  At a guess if you'd buy a similar Yunnan black tea from a US based reseller for the same price you wouldn't get tea this good. 


I can't place them related to those Farmerleaf versions I reviewed last year from memory; it's too much to reach back to that.  They could be roughly on the same level but it doesn't work to guess out if they're slightly better or slightly worse.  As I recall I might've liked the black that wasn't sun-dried from them a little better initially, but not their sun-dried tea, and then when I tried it a year later, after it had aged a year and transitioned, I liked that tea more than I did initially.  Given my limited memory take that for what it's worth.


I noticed the Tea DB bloggers reviewed one of the 2016 Dian Hong versions recently.  It would be interesting to critique their assessment but since I'm trying different tea versions--here, at least--I can't.  But the Tea Side owner mentioned something about general character in a comment to that video:


This black tea is made of material from trees 300-500 year old. Such material has a rather pu-erh character. Most of the Yunnan Dianhongs are sweeter, vanilla-floral, because they are made from bushes. Tea from ancient trees has a more modest organoleptic, but deep taste, a long aftertaste (as you noted) and powerful energy (Cha Qi). That is, it is such a "red pu-erh", if I may say so.


Interesting; that could work for description for these, but I'm guessing the character should be different.  Only some of the teas listed specified being sun-dried, and it didn't say for these, but that is a main distinction that changes character in Yunnan black teas.  Sun-dried versions are said to age better, to actually improve, and the same claim isn't usually made of oven dried versions.

That quote kind of maps onto a lot of what I said about the Ruan Zhi version, about that having a pronounced, intense flavor but giving up a lot in terms of texture and complexity.  I'd been attributing that to the plant type difference but maybe it related to the growing condition and plant age differences too, with potential processing differences left a bit open ended.  In the end it's about the experienced tea anyway, not making a study of why it landed where it did.

In trying sheng versions--which I won't say too much about, since so many factors tend to mix--I've been noticing patterns of more wild-grown trees coming across quite differently, being more subtle in nature, and just different in aspect range, earthier, more complex, but not as intense related to astringency, sometimes towards mild spice instead of or along with floral aspects.  Plant age seems to tie to a different sort of intensity difference; sheng from truly old tree sources has a completely different feel, and more aftertaste.  It's not an aspect I value or tend to notice as much as others but the "qi" or physiological effect from older tree plants does seem greater too.  I didn't notice the same degree of effect as when comparing gushu sheng a week or so ago.  Since these are black teas instead comparing across types might be of limited value but some general trends do seem to match up.


For expressing very positive but limited range flavor intensity in one limited sense the Ruan Zhi stood out as best among the three, to me, but to be clear it was my least favorite.  For overall complexity and character the other two were better, and the 2017 matched my preference better, but then they were also just different.  For judging by the first two infusions the 2016 was much better, which would have mapped onto three light infusions instead.

These were interesting, good teas.  It will be nice drinking more of them to mess around with parameters and enjoy the experience without taking notes.  If there were other black tea samples sent with them (and I think there were) it will be interesting seeing how those vary too.

the Thai life section; an old barbershop, where I get my hair cut too

with short hair and a serious look

About taking up the role of a grumpy old man in tea culture

I'm inclined towards inclusiveness related to tea culture, to accepting different perspectives, so for the most part whatever direction different people are taking the subject seems fine to me.  A post in the Tea Addict's Journal on the downside of people visiting tea producing areas triggered re-thinking some issues that keep coming up, about the limits of being able to relate to a broad range of perspectives.  The title is a reference to something one of my favorite tea bloggers said.  Maybe it will make more sense related to the rest of the post.


In that Tea Addict post his point wasn't exactly what I'm getting at in the rest of this, discussing an old tree that died due to too many people visiting a tea growing area.  That also related to preference for old tree source based products overtaxing the output of the limited number of old trees.  Of course the blame for the latter is on the producers; it's in their best interests to not kill those trees by harvesting too many leaves.  The point is really about economic pressures driving them to do that, or at least to test those limits, and sometimes fail in stopping short.  The author's main point could have been clearer, since it wasn't written to say simple things in a logic-oriented structure, it was conversational in style with a focus on covering background, but this is part of it:


In the last few years as tea-tourism has increased exponentially (I read one account that said this year 500,000 people are visiting the tea mountains during harvest season) there is an increasing number of people who really have no business going to the mountains in there, buying tea.

people in a tree (photo credit)

The obvious next thought:  on what grounds do those people have no business there, and who has such business?  Leaving that aside, there are lots of valid points in the piece, great food for thought.  He includes discussion of local tea industry history as context.  In spite of leaving potential for a bit more development even that general point still works, about possible impact of tea tourism.

this could be concern, and the outfit is Hawaiian

I discussed that a little with a Hawaiian friend, related to some areas only being able to support a certain number of visitors before there is an impact.  I lived in Honolulu for two years, in school there, and those islands definitely had experienced both the positive and negative effects of tourism.  They've done fairly well limiting the environmental impact of visitors, of course with the potential for some exceptions.  Per  my understanding Hanama Bay, the main snorkeling area on Oahu, is being damaged by visitors swimming in it, just due to being there, likely related to sunscreen components as a contaminant.


The economic benefits of that tourism in Hawaii aren't always shared by everyone in the communities, and some locals have moved away due to pressure from cost of living increases.  Some issues must parallel those in tea growing areas but it's as well to circle this back to different tea related concerns.


One related tea culture aspect I struggle with is accepting so many people becoming what one online friend called "pressure-cooked experts," related to going on vacation and becoming a tea specialist.  I just wrote a blog post about group buys, and it came up there that the line between tea vendor and tea-oriented tourist is now blurring.  To me that's no problem, although it might seem like a concern for established vendors and physical shops.  So what is the concern?  I think it's  partly about the volume of seeing such mentions, maybe even more than in the conditions in any one of them.  Every week I run across notice of a new person who has spent time in China, or wherever, and now they're bringing tea to the West.  Sometimes it's a gofundme venture instead; they're about to do that, and need money to.  It can become a relentless background noise.

large tea tree (credit)

It's like that controversy over tea-tree ages; it's not only a problem that there is a problem, or that people make and discuss dodgy marketing claims online, but at some point you just have to look away from the issue, to get space from it.  It's like US politics; it's important but it gets to be too much.


That recent commentary post I've just mentioned was so clear and offered so much background that I didn't find the theme problematic there (the part on tea tree ages, which I just also went over with a Yunnan tea producer about in an interview), even though it was already familiar ground.  It helps that I like reading posts by that author, that his ideas have been informative in the past, and the writing is clear with a nice flow to it.


I feel like I could be clearer on why hearing about new tea start-ups is a bad thing, since it is also about the content.  I'm working towards raising awareness and consumer demand as a goal for writing a blog about tea myself, it's part of the point, and in a sense new vendor market entry is just a sign that is moving forward.  Of course that's not substantially due to my own efforts, but a shared goal all the same.



Here is one example of why new tea vendor start-ups aren't necessarily tone-neutral:  I just ran across a new tea business themed around a health-oriented tea product, a claim that mixing shou pu'er and longjing and drinking those brewed together is a good thing.  Given that as background I'm not going to cite a link; good luck Googling that.  Of course that health advise is coupled with a significantly higher than market price offering of both teas, packaged as a set.


That's off-putting on a few different levels, beyond the overcharging:  1) it's surely a baseless claim, all but made up, regardless of an original source; 2) that would be disgusting, a waste of both teas.  I guess you could brew both and drink them side by side; still only a little better.  Even if that health claim is accurate--which is highly unlikely, since more general claims are usually tied to traditional wisdom, which wouldn't relate to blending teas types--that still doesn't justify mixing those particular teas together.  That traditional wisdom could be accurate.  But then, people have been selling teas since tea was discovered, so the claims being old might only relate to old forms of marketing (what people do now), and not confirmed knowledge passed down from a time when people lived closer to nature.  Who knows.  If tea is healthy I'm in good shape; if not it still tastes good, unless you screw it up by mixing things that don't match.


Other examples are endless, of people making nonsensical claims.  Or being so new to tea that they have next to no grasp of the basics before "bringing tea to the West." Hopefully they at least have enthusiasm and good intentions.  But one gets the sense that many of the same people would be selling rat poison instead if they thought it could bring the same revenue for them.


One guy I met in person here asked me if I wanted to go into business together selling tea, because he found out that he could buy it in wholesale quantity at lower prices than retail.  He'd not yet even tasted all the different Thai teas he wanted to resell.  He had no idea what "oolong" is, never mind Jin Xuan, or if the one in his hands was any good, but it still seemed a good idea to sell it.  After enough of cases of bad claims and cliche business ideas, drawing on random aspects of unfamiliar cultures, people randomly sourcing pu'er and bumping the supposed source-tree age up to 1000 - 1500 years old seems normal enough, only a minor insult.  After all, maybe the person selling it to them told them that.


I remember when I first got into tea, or at least more serious about it, I read from a tea-industry veteran that they wouldn't share a particular tea with novices because they just couldn't appreciate such a tea.  I felt turned off by that idea.  It's a little offensive that people would need to be a member of an informal club to drink a beverage.  One sees lots of variations on that related to using certain teaware, or words to describe a tea experience, or embracing ritual aspects, especially related to some types.  I really could be more positive, to just live and let live.  I'm not getting burned in tea deals, or slighted in online discussions, so I really don't have anything to complain about.  I wouldn't exactly say that I'm grumpy, maybe just not as positive about how it all the related culture sorts out as I was early on.

upset woman, and tea (credit)

It makes more and more sense why long-term bloggers eventually go quiet, talked-out related to sharing experiences of discovery mixed with other discussion that isn't as positive.  It makes me value the tea-veteran input even more, and to relate better to a bit of negative tone creeping in from time to time.


Often it's not about there being a good guy and bad guy among vendors, it's more the experience of a continuum, and about differing perspectives.  It's not clear that anyone needs to pay any learning curve related level of dues before they should sell tea, although to some extent that would be helpful, and respectful to their customers and the tradition.


There's a fine line between just practicing a fair trade, using ordinary marketing spin, and ripping off customers by making false claims.  Different vendors nudge closer to that line in lots of different ways.  There are some clearly better and worse examples, people selling quality products at a good value, providing as much information as possible, with others cutting corners, but many just fall in the middle.

my future tea teacher, hopefully

I value my tea friends and contacts that really are the good guys, to the extent it works out like that. I can't completely let go of the idea that people that like tea are somehow typically better people than those that don't, even though that's absurd, and counter-examples keep coming up.  I especially value people that keep teaching me.  Some feel a need to raise their voices about problems from time to time, but I won't be doing that much.  I'm just another guy who drinks tea; it's almost never my place.  Although it's hard to relate to whoever is reading this blog--I just see stats--I also appreciate being joined by readers in experiencing tea.

Farmerleaf Jing Mai ancient tree 2016 autumn sheng pu'er

Posting the first half of an interview with William Osmont of Farmerleaf on TChing reminded me to get back to trying their teas; I still have a couple of pu'er samples left.  Although it's a touchy subject in general this one is an "ancient tree" Jing Mai sourced version (from autumn of 2016, described here).  William will say more about what that means or doesn't mean in the second half of that interview, which in his case definitely doesn't relate to specific claims about advanced ages of trees, so I'll leave that part alone for now and go on to review.


Initially this tea has a bit of bitterness to it; I guess that's a good thing, how it should be.  Some of that aspect doesn't ruin the experience of drinking young sheng but it's not exactly positive to me either.  Initially it will be hard to tease out what's going on with the tea besides that, as pronounced as it is, but such teas tend to "loosen up" a few infusions in.  Still, it's all relative, and some sheng have tasted just like taking an aspirin, and this isn't there, there's more going on.  It has some floral tones and mild earthiness filling out range beyond that.

It's interesting running across the idea that some sheng are more or less intended for aging.  I can't really can't add much about that; the short version I recall running across is that a bitterness aspect converts to being aromatic later.  It makes you wonder if processing tends to be adjusted to change character related to that potential, or more that different versions lend themselves to drinking very young or else aged instead due to naturally occurring factors.  Someday I might be able to taste a young sheng and try to project ahead to what it would be like in five or ten years but I certainly can't guess at that now.  At any rate William mentioned an intentional input that did affect this teas character in that product description, just not described there related to aging potential:


We gave a relatively strong kill-green process to the leaves in order to release the best of this tea. A side effect of this choice is the presence of many yellow flakes. We sorted out the largest ones, but there are still some in the cakes. They add sweetness to the tea and tone down the bitterness. The aspect of yellow flakes is not appealing to the Chinese tea drinkers; therefore many tea producers use low wok temperatures in autumn to avoid having yellow leaves. It results in reddened tea which can be more fragrant but features less throat and mouth freshness.

Yu Bai making tea (photo credit Farmerleaf)

Even by a third infusion, one of those just a quick rinse, it starts to mellow out.  That bitterness--not astringency really, actual bitterness--starts to transition to being mixed with strong mineral tones.  Although the tea isn't really so astringent in the sense of feeling rough or "mouth puckering" it does have an interesting feel to it, which is related to that.  It tightens the sides of the back of my tongue most, but since I'm not on that page in terms of aspects preference that doesn't mean much to me.


On the next infusion it falls into an even better balance.  A light wood tone, picks up, with a good bit of sweetness, and some floral scope rounding out the balance.  It's funny how preference works out; that character range is both the reason why young sheng isn't my favorite type of tea and also why I like it.  There's a freshness to the effect, and an interesting complexity and balance, with layers to the experience.  But it's still not warm, rich, and easily approachable as better black teas are.  It could just be a preference curve issue, related to a natural transition of likes over time.


I liked light oolongs the best initially, TKY and Taiwanese styles, which are very approachable and can be quite complex, and still do enjoy interesting versions, but the ordinary versions I started on can be a bit boring now.


From there the transitions level out and it just keeps going, of course brewing lots of tea, as if it could just continue indefinitely.

tea, in Jing Mai

I would guess that I would like the tea more in ten years but that's not based on much; I really don't know how it would change.  I guess that's part of the appeal of drinking lots of sheng and aging it, to experience that transition, even the uncertainty, even if it's not always positive.  For me it's nice to have more tea-space out there to experience, like visiting an interesting place on vacation and knowing you missed a couple of interesting sites; it leaves more to get to later.


I can't place this related to a non-ancient tree version, even though I reviewed one by them not so long ago.  So lets roll the whole process back and try out a side-by-side comparison of that tea and this one.  There is one limitation, that these aren't necessarily supposed to be identical styles of tea separate from that source difference.  For example, it's harvested at a different time, March to April, and there could be intentional processing differences leading to character differences.

Comparison tasting Farmeleaf's Jing Mai Miyun with this ancient tree version

Farmerleaf Miyun 2016 Jing Mai sheng

One more disclaimer:  due to personal preference scope I'll end up emphasizing differences in taste, when one running pu'er theme is that taste is only one of several aspects to appreciate, and to some not the main one, or maybe not even in the top three (related to effect, "qi", mouth-feel, and aftertaste).  I'll mention feel, for completeness, but it's odd doing that when I'm not really into teas feeling a certain way, some degree of fullness is interesting and that's about it.  Here goes anyway.

The flavors range of the two is comparable, it overlaps, but both are quite different. They're both a little floral, with mineral undertones, and a trace of bitterness, although not so much when brewed lightly the first few infusions.  That's not how I put it in the first tasting notes, related to bitterness level, which could relate to an expectations shift, or brewing differences.  Or I've been up and down related to a throat infection that comes and goes, and it seems at least possible that even being mostly over that perception of certain aspects shifts more than others related to changed sensitivity.

The ancient tree version is a lot sweeter and brighter.  That brightness almost comes across as citrus, as a citrus spray like effect, when you bend the peel.  The Miyun includes more earthiness, mainly coming across as wood tone, but there is more to it than that.  The wood is complex, light and bright fresh wood in a complex range that extends to wood bark.

ancient tree source left, Miyun right

On the fourth infusion I went a little longer to get more feel for the feel, but the teas probably haven't leveled off into the character they'll show more of later. The bitterness picks up brewed stronger, of course. I don't mean the infusion strength is stronger than typical for other tea types, just not as light as I often brew sheng; the steep time was still about half a minute.

The ancient tree tea picks up a lot of structure, a feel that's hard to describe, and a long aftertaste.  It feels full, like a tightening across my tongue--more the sides, in the back--and in the rest of the mouth, that settles into a dryness on the rear of my tongue at the end.  Someday it might make sense to me how anything remotely like that range of sensation is pleasant.  I don't dislike it, it's just not particularly interesting to me.  Mineral elements are pronounced, maybe towards shale.  That aftertaste takes awhile to wear off, like the effect from that one Golding tea in the last comparison tasting with this Miyun (so I guess to some extent I've compared both vendor's old-tree versions, just indirectly, both comparison tasted along with this Miyun version).

The Miyun picks up a touch of smoke, which isn't bad with that aspects mix.  It has a full feel, just not as full in comparison with this other tea; tasted side by side it comes across as a good bit thinner.  They both have some sweetness for balance but the ancient tree has more.  It's hard to separate floral tones, there for both, they're similar but perhaps a little different.  I think focusing on that would go better brewed very lightly, not just light but wispy.

I seem to pick up a trace of smoke in the ancient tree tea now, on the next infusion. The brightness wears off a little and more of a wood tone picks up.  It falls into a nice balance together, although it was fine before too.  Brewed lighter that feel is still present but less pronounced.  The Miyun gains a little more smoke, less bright yet, with that wood tone pushing to earthier, towards a light mushroom, just not getting there.

Of course mineral undertone is strong in both, and a trace of bitterness, but that's quite light when brewed lightly, and it subsides across infusions more than the other flavor range.  It's a little stronger in the ancient tree tea at this point but they both do keep transitioning.  It's nothing like taking an aspirin, or at least only a little like that.

ancient tree source left, Miyun right

It's funny how similar and how different the two teas are.  It wouldn't be possible for me to appreciate that tasting them days apart.  I guess it would be possible for someone drinking tea only for flavor to prefer the Miyun, provided the earthier tone worked well for them, and more smoke, and different woodiness.  But the ancient tree tea has a lot more going on, more initial brightness, more sweetness, more structure to the feel and aftertaste, and a bit more complexity.  It even starts to pick up a touch of spice tone later on, closest to nutmeg, but not exactly that.


This "ancient tree" effect starts to make some sense to me; maybe if I keep with it and try a number of other examples it will be even clearer.  Aging teas and relation of different aspects to aging potential is another part of the larger pu'er picture, and I'm woefully behind in doing much with that.  There are just so many teas out there to try, and pu'er hasn't become a natural main preference, but given how much I like the only old version of a sheng cake I do own (now 11 years old, perhaps just getting interesting) I really should get on that.