Quang Tom Vietnamese Lao Cai sheng, from 2023 and 2024

 

2023 left, in all photos

I'm re-trying a related version of what has been two of my all-time favorite tea versions, for the past couple of years, 2023 and 2024 Quang Tom Vietnamese sheng (from the Bac Ha District in the Lao Cai province).  I reviewed comparable versions here, a year and a half ago, and the 2023 first here, as a gift from Huyen and Seth, two favorite tea friends and Vietnamese tea researchers.  I've just bought these teas, and a third from 2022, one I've not yet tried.

Reading back through those posts the three reviews of the 2023 version and two of the 2024 (counting this one) are really consistent.  It sounds like the 2023 has deepened in flavor tone range over those two years, trading out some bright floral, dried fruit, and citrus range for more honey and warmth, but otherwise it's all pretty consistent.  

These may not be identical versions; the wrappers are different, and the compression level doesn't seem identical.  Maybe the dried and wetted tea photos will turn up other minor differences.  But the character is quite close, except these may be slightly better.  It's interesting to consider how much role variation in pressing process could have played in that.

similar; more variation in the 2023

A  big part of their story is using extra oxidation as an input.  According to Seth that may be a somewhat traditional form in Vietnam, or at least one that has evolved over time and is far from new.  One would expect that to enter in as an extra long oxidation phase during a longer wither, but in discussion with the Quang Tom producer part of it may relate to letting the tea rest after a fixing step (pan-frying), even though to me that's counter-intuitive, adding more oxidation later.  Who knows.  For sure no other material would land on exactly the same results, but maybe other inputs could cause a related positive outcome.

This is their Facebook page, and Instagram account.  I had hoped to cite some description of the tea or producer background there but it's mostly photos of tea, with very little on the area or about processing.  Seth passed on a short vendor summary, in that 2024 blog post I mentioned:

The area Hoang Thu Pho is in Lao Cai province on the east side of the Red River, which flows into Vietnam from Yunnan. It's in a mountain range called Tay Con Linh that peaks further eastward in Ha Giang (province). Son La is in a different mountain range called Hoang Lien Son with slightly higher elevation on the west side of the Red River, and also sits on the Black River, which also flows in from Yunnan. Both tea areas are owned by members of Hmong people groups.

The tea maker for the Hoang Thu Pho cake is a younger guy named Phuc who has been making tea for about six years. He is not Hmong, but he buys tea material from Hmong tea areas and wants to focus on making high quality teas.

Keep in mind this is a small to mid sized local producer, not even a medium sized factory operation.  Of course their main focus is on making tea, not marketing and distribution.  The owner discusses their business theme and values here, on that FB page.

This translated label could work as a product description (translation credit to Google Lens):

Name: Freshly Fermented Green Tea Cake (Green Tea Series) 

Ingredients: 100% ancient Shan Tuyet tea buds, sun-dried and fermented. 

Storage: Store in a cool, dry place with humidity < 70%, away from direct sunlight. 

Shelf life: Suitable for long-term storage under appropriate conditions. 

Instructions for use: Take 5g of tea and brew with 250ml of boiling water (>95 degrees Celsius), steep for 30 seconds, then pour into a cup or mug to enjoy. 

Food Safety Certificate: 04/2024/NNPTNT Phone: 0961.129.186 Address: Bac Ha Town, Bac Ha District, Lao Cai Province 

Produced by: Quang Tom Cooperative, Bac Ha District, Lao Cai Province, Vietnam Production date: 06/2023 Net weight: 350g

It's sheng, whether you want to think of that as pu'er or not.  According to Huyen the old local name for the type had translated as dried tea, if I remember right, and I've tried comparable versions sold as snow tea.  

How could sheng be fermented?  It's probably a reference to oxidation, on that label; of course automatic translation isn't 100% accurate.  It's not a conventional form of sheng.  But I know sheng when I'm drinking it.  If someone else defines categories differently then that's also fine.  It's not pu'er according to the Chinese geographical designation, limiting origin to Yunnan, so it is a little odd calling it "raw something," without including that second part of the designation.

Back in 2015, when I wrote this blog post on "Ancient tea tree high mountain Vietnamese tea" I really didn't know much about tea, or that general type.  This may seem interesting:

Sounds ok; it's a shame the review description is so limited, but if I had said more it probably wouldn't have made much sense anyway.

Review:  

2023 #1:  it's a little light; it will be early for passing on a full impression.  What does come across is fantastic.  These teas, or very closely related versions, have been personal favorites for the past two years, so that is a biased impression.  They're what I like.  They've helped change what I like most in sheng.

Honey sweetness stands out, and warm floral range, probably with fruit that will develop to be more distinct.  Very little bitterness and astringency; this isn't the tea for that.  There's a touch of cloudiness to the tea, which some would see as a likely quality issue, but I don't place it that way.  It's how this unconventional processing output can work out, and it will clear up.  If I was experiencing it as a negative aspect, for example related to sourness or a musty character, that would be different.

2024:  similar but different.  It's heavier on fruit, with a hint of citrus.  Both seem to taste a lot like dried apricot.  These flavor aspect lists aren't worth much, because this is only an initial impression, and both aren't fully wetted yet.  I am already sure that these will be personal favorites.  At a guess it's not exactly the same as the earlier 2023 and 2024 versions, more evident in compression form than this early round's results.  We'll see.

2023 #2:  I kept infusion time limited, not much over 10 seconds, because these were brewing at low intensity due to not being soaked yet, not from lacking intensity (or that was my thinking, at least).  The warm honey sweetness in this is very engaging.  It starts to cross over to a beeswax flavor aspect, which you usually only experience in Jin Jun Mei (Fujian bud based black tea).  It's rich and complex.  

Depth really makes the experience, but that part is hard to describe.  I could drink just this for a month, and not miss other teas.  Other flavor range is supporting that effect, in particular a rich, deep floral range, and supporting dried fruit that is still hard to place, closest to dried apricot.  A warm tone is integrated along with those flavors.  This might taste like both honey and caramel; that could be part of the complexity that comes across as depth.

2024:  again brighter.  The citrus evolves; it stands out more.  Then some warmth and apricot range overlaps with the other, but in a sense it's quite different (and in another sense very similar).  In a way the greater complexity and more bright range makes this version seem better than the other, but that experience of depth is hard to place, and they're both great in slightly different ways.  These are close to the other versions I've drank lots of, but they kind of have to have been pressed separately.

Fullness of feel is hard to capture; these aren't like conventional sheng, with adjoining bitterness seeming to pair with astringency.  They are smooth and full instead, but not in a familiar form within oolong range.  Aftertaste trails nicely, not like the intense after-effect of bitter sheng, a returning sweetness, evolving from bitterness, but the sweetness in the liquid carries over.

note very darkened leaves in the 2023 version (left)

2023 #3:  this is still brewing a good bit darker, with some of the earlier clarity issue resolved.  Leaves are oddly dark, as if singed in places, but no char comes across.  The clean effect across similar flavors intensifies.  I didn't describe earlier rounds as muddled or murky, but this is still somehow cleaner.  Honey and beeswax still stands out, and rich floral tone and some dried fruit, but a new note evolves.  It's hard to say if it's closer to cacao or spice; maybe in between the two.  If it evolves to stand out more it will be easier to tell.  Maybe it's just toffee, the prior caramel aspect changing.

2024:  this gets better and better too.  Citrus is a great addition to the base of the rest.  It's probably closest to tangerine, but maybe how dried tangerine might come across, which I don't think I've ever tried.  Or maybe just fresh tangerine, and then warm dried apricot joins that.  It's missing some of the warm tone range in the other, but somehow there is a common base to both.  

2023 #4:  it might be that a touch of citrus is evolving in this, maybe closer to orange, and then the caramel or toffee sweetness and other flavor seems to change a little.  The brewed liquid is completely clear.  I can't notice any sourness, which should pair with a negative processing or storage input that typically relates to a moderate loss of brewed liquid clarity.  

At this point someone could free associate a very long flavor list.  I keep mentioning citrus, honey, beeswax, caramel, rich floral range, and dried apricot, and now orange, but some of that flavor depth could seem to tie to sweet potato, or to lemon cake (both the lemon and the cake part).  There's a lot going on, and both complexity and depth are good.  And feel and aftertaste expression.  This might be quite like the other 2023 version I've drank through a few cakes of, just slightly better.

2024:  the citrus note seems to gain complexity, adding bergamot range to the earlier tangerine (not so far off, but different).  Again someone could make a long list interpreting the rest.  Feel has a touch of extra edge to it, where the other is deeper and smoother.  Aftertaste might carry over slightly better, perhaps because that brighter range is suited for that.  I wouldn't call any of this effect vegetal but the extra bright range and edge bring something related to mind.  It's like just a hint of watermelon rind.  That's actually pleasant, with so much sweetness and fruit range balancing it.  Maybe tied to that some would see this as tasting partly like yellow watermelon.  Or maybe that's a stretch.

These must not have lost much intensity from shipping effect.  They've been in Bangkok for a couple of days, but I tried them within a few hours of getting them.  It's a really short flight over from Vietnam; I suppose that shouldn't be surprising.

2023 #5:  maybe the best it has been, but not different in terms of flavor range, or other aspects, the balance, intensity, and refinement just really work.  The flavor set is so catchy, the honey, light toffee, floral, and dried fruit range.

2024:  those warmer tones are changing, and the feel.  It has a little more of an edge.  Like a hint of green wood tone?  It still works really well, but it's not clearly the best that it has been.  It reminds me a little of some Darjeeling character, in a good sense.  The other version is harder to place with any kind of comparison.

Conclusions:

In discussing these with the owner, Phuoc or Phuc, he mentioned that he thinks they keep getting better through the infusion cycle.  That was after I had made these notes, which kind of mention that.  Two more rounds were also exceptional, but I can't drink much over a dozen cups at a time, and had already checked out of note taking mode.

I'm surprised that these are slightly better than I expected.  The earlier versions were already two of four favorite sheng versions (along with Viet Sun's Son La, and Aphiwat's local Thai sheng).  Of course other Yunnan origin versions cover traditional style range more faithfully, and lots of that is amazing.  I've tried other sheng pu'er that's as good or better over the past year, in terms of evaluating a quality level, but these are what I've been buying and drinking.  Lots of all of them; kgs worth.

Some sheng purists wouldn't even like them, maybe any of them.  I probably only referenced bitterness here to say that it's missing.  That's perhaps not completely true of the 2024 version, but it's so limited that to a daily sheng drinker it's essentially not there.  So why do I find these so exceptional?

It's in the aspects that I described, and more so in how it all comes together.  Mind you these cakes had just moved from one country to another; they may pick up just a touch more intensity.  And I was already blown away by how good they seem, after drinking multiple cakes of both over the past two years.  I'm down to a third of a cake of the 2023 here in Bangkok, and left just a little of a 2024 to get back to in Honolulu.  

A lot of this over the top endorsement must relate to bias; this is what I have come to love.  When tea friends from a large online tea group visited Honolulu two months ago the 2024 version might have been one of the first teas I made for them.  Or maybe not; my memory is shot, and Aphiwat's tea would've also been a suitable stand-in.  But I think it was the Quang Tom version.  This is what Huyen chose to share with me, two years ago (and Seth; they visited together).  It's shifting a long way from that 2015 kind of harsh green tea I mentioned in this post earlier.

What about the Quang Tom recommendation to use a Western / Gongfu hybrid approach to brew this (5 grams, 250 ml of water, 30 seconds, 95 C, multiple rounds)?  Sure, try that, but once you try full-on GFC brewing (8 grams, 100 ml, 15 seconds, full boiling point, only add time after a number of rounds) that might be how you like it.  It would work for grandpa style brewing too, drinking from a glass or tea bottle without taking the leaves back out, re-adding water as it gets low.

Why are some of the 2023 leaves so, so dark?  Probably charred in the fixing / sha qing.  If the tea wasn't so amazing it would seem more like a flaw.  Maybe it had potential to be brighter, as the 2024 was, but that resulting depth of warm honey, beeswax, dried apricot, toffee, and light citrus also represents a very positive and unique experience.

with deepest gratitude to Huyen, and also to Seth

they also prompted a few rounds of new meetups (Seth is on the bottom)

A pleasant tea meetup with a nice tasting lineup

 

only 5 of the 7 who attended; I forgot to take the picture earlier

Friends gathered at our house again to try some teas, probably the last of a series of a half-dozen somewhat related meetups.  Three meetups were held where I live (in Bangkok, for now, in Honolulu soon), or four, if you also count a couple of friends dropping by in January (visit vs. meetup; not so different).  

To me those are mostly about the people joining experiencing the teas, and appreciating interacting with others, more than a formal tasting theme.  I could have said ten times as much about the teas, at the cost of most of that interaction dropping out.  Even doubling the limited information and input would shift the tone, from a friendly gathering of friends to more of an educational experience.  That's fine too, but when people first meet each other it's better if they can chat a good bit, and people joining has always included some of them repeating and some being new arrivals.  To me it's important for them to be able to express themselves, and for it to be about all of them, more than the teas.  I don't find myself as interesting because I already know those stories.

Interacting with the people was as pleasant as the teas, or more so for me, because I've already tried those teas.  But the teas themselves were exceptional, interesting for different reasons, and more of a sensible tasting theme or pattern emerged this time.  We talked more about whatever tangents came up, and our own backgrounds.  One person had traveled a lot (and many participants have been nomads throughout the various meetups), another was coming to tea from a drink-mixing background, and one was a long-term local resident working in freelance writing, with a diverse background.  So fascinating!  

Two friends I keep meeting are teachers, who alternate working and traveling, with one working on finishing a Master's thesis now.  One friend in attendance, who I've met a couple of times, is a Zen meditation instructor, although we didn't seem to get into that part so much.  That might not be an easy subject to say just a little about.  As usual people were from all over:  the US, Canada, Germany, and Italy, with a longer list of where they've also lived.

This writing is more about the teas instead; I won't summarize the rest about all that.  Mentioning what the teas were, and adding reference links, would help them see what we had tried again, and to me the sequence was interesting.  We keep trying different patterns of experiences, beyond generally moving from lighter to heavier tea character range.  This struck a balance between that kind of pattern and generally just trying what I like, with a secondary focus on the teas being novel.  It worked.

1.  Mao Feng Qimen, Chinese black tea (from Dylan Conroy of the Sweetest Dew, not reviewed, but here are other related versions reviewed):  I missed trying the last sample Dylan had sent of exceptional Qimen, and this was a good time to get to it.  

More ordinary Qimen is just another standard commercial black tea, but versions do vary.  I guess this was made from the plant type used to make Mao Feng, a main green tea type (or at least that seems to make the most sense).  It was heavy on buds, quite refined, complex, and pleasant in flavor, including cacao and a bit of soft malt.  It's not light in the sense that a rolled oolong would be, but the warm tone doesn't make it a challenging tea, and I didn't feel like starting all the way "back" at green tea or light rolled oolong, even though I have those around.  I like black teas better, and I wanted to get on to more sheng pu'er tasting this time.

not that tea, but two other exceptional Qimen from Dylan

2.  Dian Hong (Yunnan) style Thai black tea from Aphiwat, a 2024 version, from wild origin material (reviewed here, with a contact link to the producer here).  This is a tea I've been drinking regularly for awhile, and one we've tried in another tasting version, or maybe even two of them.  It's a lot like Dian Hong tend to be:  complex in flavor, expressing a lot of positive range (cacao, etc.), with good mineral depth, and good balance.  Part of the range could seem to include sourness to some (Huyen didn't really like it, or Dian Hong in general), but I love it.  

It's funny how I'm a bit put off by tartness in a black tea, but one leaning a little towards a sour range is still fine.  To me you wouldn't normally make this connection in trying this tea (seeing it as sour), but when you think about it that kind of works, and for people only adjusted to trying variety Sinensis black tea versions the difference could be off-putting, as it is for Huyen.  I just had it with breakfast, on the day I'm editing this; it's also great with food.

that Thai black tea

3.  local Vietnamese sheng (2024 from Quang Tom, reviewed here):  I love this tea!  I loved the 2023 version, and this 2024 version might be a little better.  It's quite oxidized, which is strange for sheng in general, but not so unusual for SE Asian versions.  According to Seth--mentioned in this blog many times, someone who looks into Vietnamese teas a lot, and researches them along with Huyen--that might be a normal step for Vietnamese sheng processing.  I've talked to this producer and it's intentional.

A tea version essentially in between sheng and black tea probably wouldn't age well, past just changing a little over a couple of years, but if those first years are positive enough that doesn't matter.  I drank a 2023 cake version pretty fast, and I'd drink this 2024 cake I own faster, but it's the second one I bought, and I don't want it to go as fast as the first did.  Tones are warmer than for conventional sheng, of course, and bitterness and astringency are limited, but plenty of fruit stands out.  It helps to push it just a bit to get the intensity up to the normal crazy sheng level, but you can push it as much as you want, since there is nothing negative to brew around.

2023 was pressed a little too hard (left), but the 2024 form is perfect

4.  Viet Sun Son La Vietnamese sheng (2023 version, reviewed here):  I really like this tea too; it's also the second cake I'm on for this same version.  I don't mind the repetition at all, or that I've been drinking Thai sheng from Aphiwat over and over as well.  I try plenty related to the blog review theme, and it's nice drinking favorites beyond that.  It helps keep my tea budget moderate too, but this cake is in the normal price range, I think, probably listing for around $80 now ($77; I checked during editing).  I bought it for one price increase less than that a year ago, and also the year before, so I think it's worth it. 

It's a bit more challenging than the first sheng we tried; it includes conventional sheng bitterness and astringency, just not the most ordinary flavor range.  To me it expresses more fruit than floral tones.  It made for a nice tasting sequence already, bridging from two types of black tea onto a hybrid sheng, then one that's more conventional, but not necessarily completely standard related to most Yunnan forms.

the Son La Viet Sun cake

5.  Man Xi 2008 sheng pu'er sample:  (finally back to using that second term)  I don't know what this is, or who gave me this; I grabbed about 20 teas from samples or favorites that we might try, and aged sheng somehow fit at this time.  Another I almost brewed instead was slightly older "factory" tea, a numbered CNNP or Taetea version (if I checked the number again I'd know; if it ends in 1 that's CNNP / Zhongcha and 2 that's Taetea / Menghai Tea Factory), as Google's AI explains:

First two digits: The year the recipe was developed

Third digit: The grade of the raw tea leaves, or maocha. The scale ranges from 0 to 9, with 0 being the smallest and 9 being the largest

Fourth digit: The factory that produced the tea

For example, a tea cake with the recipe number 7542 was developed in 1975 and made with fourth-grade tea leaves by the Menghai Tea Factory. The Menghai Tea Factory is one of the most famous producers of Pu'erh tea in China. 

Somehow it seemed likely this would be more of a boutique range version, which can be interesting, and definitely more refined.  It was like that.  I know no background related to this version or that area, but I'll cite a source describing another tea that might parallel it, or it might not:

Our 2007 Organic Manxi Mountain Raw Pu’er Cake uses sun-dried Shaiqinmao tea leaves (Yunnan big-leaf variety) from ancient tea trees grown on the organic tea plantations of the Manxi Mountain area. It is produced by Fuhai Tea Factory in Menghai County, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan.

The Manxi Mountain area is located at the Sino-Burmese border in the district of Daluo Town, Menghai County. It features a large group of very old large-leaf tea trees, planted by the Blang people over 500 years ago.

People keep buying aged sheng to find versions like this one, unless they really need super high complexity and intensity, as factory versions exhibit, if they don't mind rough edges that can go with those others.  Or this more refined version is another type of offering, more subtle, but potentially still well-balanced, or other 25 year old teas in a broader range might have settled but haven't faded.

Some aged sheng does just fade, if the type isn't suitable for this 17 year old, relatively transitioned range, but the intensity in this was ok, pretty good.  Not necessarily on the high side for intensity; it was quite drinkable and refined, but also a bit subdued.  Tones could've been a little warmer; maybe it hadn't been in wet storage for a lot of that time, which tends to emphasize that.  

For us not really focusing in on those teas as much as we might have I don't think most people picked up on just how good this tea was (although one person mentioned it), but that's all relative anyway.  I thought it was a bit exceptional, based on patterns of my own expectations, related to prior experience.  But then I also commented how I liked a 2006 Xiaguan 8653 version more, one we tried together two weeks ago, even though we all agreed it had a strong "barnyard" taste.  A clean version of that, mind you, like horse saddle, not like aged barn or manure smell.

that cake, which I really like, commonly sold in lots of outlets (the Xiaguan, not Man Xi)

6.  Oriental Leaf Fu "brick" (cake) hei cha (from 2020), with golden flowers (reviewed here, with the vendor page here; I think this was the Fengqing version, not the Lincang origin one):

This was quite a shift, moving from pretty good aged sheng on to novel hei cha.  That adds a lot of rough edges and rustic tone, but this tea type is pleasant, and interesting.

The golden flowers input is positive, and pleasant, while definitely unusual, related to most other tea experience.  It's hard to describe; it's a little like yeasty, fresh baked bread, just not exactly like that.  Maybe it leans toward floral and spice range at the same time, while based on warm tones.  While trying the next round, the one after this, I kept this tea brewing to try a really strong infusion version, and that was completely different, still approachable, but almost shockingly intense, heavy on mineral layer and those other flavors.

lots of mold on that Fu cake, which is considered a good thing

7.  1991 Thai (Wawee) Liu Bao:  (from a friend, so there is no link or review of this) aged tea is interesting, how it picks up depth, and smooths out any rough edges that were ever present.  For powering through a half dozen teas prior to this, and not slowing the pace, probably that novelty and depth didn't really come across so clearly.  

This seemed like pretty good aged Liu Bao, how those should be, expressing that set of typical interesting and complementary flavors.  It tasted like Liu Bao, just an aged-mellowed version of one, as it should have.  To me prior to relatively complete aging Liu Bao a harsher edge and flavor like cement blocks can stand out, but this had moved past that, to the extent it ever included it.

8.  2024 Na Lang Laos sheng, from Farmerleaf (reviewed here, with the vendor page here):  this is a recent favorite, shared by William Osmont on his somewhat recent visit here.  It's really good, probably the best Laos sheng that I've tried, and I've probably tried at least 15 versions of that.  It's bright, positive in flavor range, well balanced, clean, complex, and intense.  A couple of people noted that it was their favorite so far in the tasting (so overall, it being the last one), and it was mine as well.  

It was interesting moving from light to heavy across that whole sequence, and then back-tracking to this version, and upping the quality level a little at the same time.  Those other teas were already good, good examples of those types.  But dynamic, intense, and balanced sheng is something else.  

Surely there is other sheng out there that can seem to take the next step in different directions; I've had versions like that, some from those highly desirable origins, and others from more ordinary places, that just happened to be really good.  It was interesting hearing people try to place what aspects or character made this different, and that good.  Interpretations always vary, and it's not as if one could be objectively right more than any other (although it can seem like that to some).

the Farmerleaf Na Lang Laos sheng

It was a good place to leave off.  8 versions is a lot of tea, and we weren't tasting the first 2 or 3 infusions, and moving on, we were really drinking the teas.  I brewed all that in a 200 ml gaiwan, stacking (mixing) infusions every time, either 2 or 3, usually 3, so we lost a little in terms of noticing transition sequences, but gained ground in keeping up a pace, and just drinking some tea.  Even drinking 4 more isolated infusions of each--not mixing them, and only drinking a little--would relate to 32 rounds in total.  The tasting ran long, but not as long as that approach would have taken, more like 4 hours instead of the planned 3.

Snacks worked out well too; there is a good bakery not far from our house (Little Home), and what they produce is often made in small item forms that work well, tiny croissants filled with sausage, small cream puffs and egg tarts, and so on.  You can't really drink a good bit of 8 versions of tea, and many of those intense versions at that, without that sort of adjustment, eating something to offset it.  One person brought a mango, and pistachios; those sorts of inputs are nice to add variety.

It made for a nice experience, both related to all those teas and focus on conversation and appreciating the rest of the group together.

one of the earlier meetups, with Huyen and Seth at the bottom (who I kept mentioning)

Huyen and Seth held an epic Vietnam themed tea event in Bangkok

 

The tea community in Bangkok is really coming together, and the event Huyen and Seth, two friends, just held is a small part of that, and also a sign of how the rest goes.  It was themed around Vietnamese teas, kind of an odd part, since Thai teas are finally coming into their own, but somehow that part makes sense too.  There are a lot of people from everywhere in Bangkok, and cultures from across Asia and around the world merge to make Bangkok special.

This writing is mostly just about that event though.  Huyen and Seth are researching for a book on Vietnamese teas, and this is their second visit here, after also being here last January.  Of course they travel more in Vietnam related to that subject, but cultures and flow of traditional goods mix, so some Vietnamese tea history collects in Bangkok too.  Their Instagram contacts are here, for Huyen and Seth.

beautiful teaware on display in a Bangkok temple; some of it is from Vietnam

The tasting theme was about sharing unique and interesting tea versions, and the background, the context it came from.  Vietnam's story of tea is different from China and Thailand's, but it all overlaps some.

We tried an aged oolong from the early 90s first, representing a critical stage in tea production development there.  As with in Thailand rolled oolong in Taiwanese style, based on plant types and processing from Taiwan, first entered into production in both countries right around then.  Aged oolong is something people seem to love or mostly not get, since it mostly picks up an interesting depth and a bit of plum-like taste.  As a sheng pu'er drinker I'm a bit ruined for all the other range; I can appreciate refined and complex oolongs, or black teas with interesting depth, but I mostly need that atypical intensity just for tea to seem normal.

We also tried a young / newer Vietnamese sheng, and another modern oolong variation, from the #17 cultivar.  That's usually called Ruan Zhi, in most references and by most people selling it, but per some review I think Bai Lu might be a more accurate name for it.  Ruan Zhi is sometimes described as a reference to an earlier range of plant types (with more on that here, and here, with those two posts probably not saying the exact same things).  So it might be more related to the more original Qin Xin range (or Chin Shin, per another transliteration form).

the original plant type table from an interesting Taiwan tea reference

All that is just a tangent though, nothing like a central theme of that event.  And it's always all but impossible to sort out which resource is accurate, I suppose except for more clearly definitive ones.  This set of references is a good example, the Tea and Beverage Station, Ministry of Agriculture (Taiwan) page, formerly TTES and TRES (they rebrand a lot).

The tasting did well to balance background, history, plant type information, ideas about processing, and stories with the direct experience we were having.  Since Huyen and Seth have been traveling and researching Vietnamese tea for a year, or more, it would've been easy to let the tangents and background take over, but they managed that well.

The attendees were one of the most interesting parts, to me.  Because a dozen or so (11?) people attended the tasting divided into two groups, and I heard more from the one sub-set I was in, but everyone seemed on the same page related to really appreciating and getting the experience.  Really anyone at any exposure level can appreciate better teas, but it's also nice when shared prior exposure helps support discussion range.  

A few of the participants were tea vendors (an unusually high proportion), and the rest already loved diverse tea types.  I might mention business links for people to look further into more interesting Thai tea options, related to who attended:  the founder of Qing Fu Cha attended (a Chinese and Thai tea vendor), someone from Wang Pu Tan tea (a Thai producer of great teas), and the Tea Wala vendor (a local high quality Thai tea curator).

We also tried aged Vietnamese sheng, a light rolled oolong very similar to modern Taiwanese versions in style and quality level, a well-oxidized rolled oolong (sometimes marketed as red oolong), and lotus tea, an amazing and distinctive type that Vietnam is known for.  The sweet, licorice flavored taste of that lotus tea was wonderful; to me it really stood out from the rest.  But then I'd imagine different participants would've connected most with different versions, depending on their preference, or which seemed catchy in a novel way to them.

For having over a dozen people in total attend (counting Huyen, Seth, and I) the form and flow went really well.  I've tried holding events before, managing the brewing and pouring aspects myself, and even a much smaller event can be a challenge, with only half that many people attending.

The hostel space they stay in, at the Pastel House, beside the Suttisan MRT station, is perfect for this sort of thing.  Another half dozen people could have joined, and table space would have still been sufficient.  It was a large, quiet, comfortable open space.  If you're ever in that area the roasted pork restaurant right beside it is exceptional, and the Grow Tea Studio tea cafe is nearby.

So is Bangkok on the cusp of foreigner and Thai tea enthusiast appreciation taking on a new, more complex form?  Maybe.  But this kind of thing tends to evolve gradually.  The new commercial tea events, expos, can be developed quickly, and the next post here will be about a continuation of the series of "Taste of Tea" events, with one going on now in Central World.  But tea preference and private social groups transition over time.  Of course all that really started a decade ago here, among Thais.  In an earlier form groups formed around shop customers, people joining related to appreciating tea in places like Double Dogs, Tea Dee, and Ong's tea, a shop that had been in Paragon, now closed.

All of this brings up an inclination to link to lots of old posts here, going on about visiting these shops, going to events, or holding them.  None of this is centered on what I've done or experienced though, and that would seem implied by that, that somehow my experience represents, or even shapes, this local tea culture.  I've just been here to see it.  Shops really support it, and many other tea enthusiasts and vendors pull these interest groups together.  

I'm also not really part of a "tea clique" here.  I was in an online version of one, with Huyen, Suzana, and Ralph; that really helped make Covid seem less isolating, back in 2020 and 2021.  Locally in Bangkok I know some people into tea, and that's nice; it works out without being part of a close circle of tea friends, or some form of networking group.

meeting Huyen and Seth online awhile back

I met Huyen and Ralph first here, at Jip Eu, and many others

people connecting was the nicest part

Hoàng Thu Phố Vietnamese sheng, 2023 and 2024 versions, from Bắc Hà, Lào Cai province

2023 left; higher compression makes it harder to separate

 

I've bought more of a Vietnamese sheng that my friend Huyen gave me (an earlier review, and the producer FB contact), which turned out to be a favorite version, from the Quang Tom producer.  Let's start with what it is, Huyen's description:

This tea cake is from Hoàng Thu Phố, Bắc Hà, Lào Cai province. It was made in 2023. Mostly old tea trees belongs to the H’mong people.

Seth, who was with her and also gave it to me, filled in even more background:

The area Hoang Thu Pho is in Lao Cai province on the east side of the Red River, which flows into Vietnam from Yunnan. It's in a mountain range called Tay Con Linh that peaks further eastward in Ha Giang (province). Son La is in a different mountain range called Hoang Lien Son with slightly higher elevation on the west side of the Red River, and also sits on the Black River, which also flows in from Yunnan. Both tea areas are owned by members of Hmong people groups.

The tea maker for the Hoang Thu Pho cake is a younger guy named Phuc who has been making tea for about six years. He is not Hmong, but he buys tea material from Hmong tea areas and wants to focus on making high quality teas.

I brewed and drank that cake; it was my favorite during that last 3 month stay in Honolulu.  I thought I really loved that 2023 version, but after trying the 2024 cake alongside it I guess I have a new favorite tea again.

A lot of this is about why it is atypical in style, trying to break down how others might relate to it, and why they may not love it as much as I do. As for a contact I'll add reference to their Facebook page and website:

their FB profile page

Review:

2023 #1:  This early round is muted and light, but it will really kick in.  Warm tones define the experience as rich, floral, and fruity.  

One heavy flavor range is unique, positive to me, but not necessarily objectively positive, something everyone would like.  Described positively this includes the warm, sweet richness of other tea types, leaning a little towards how a more oxidized Dan Cong might come across, with subtle and integrated roast input lending that depth.  Described more negatively, potentially in light of not fulfilling other sheng pu'er aspect / character expectations, it could be regarded as yeasty, overly heavy, lacking the brightness, astringency edge, bitterness, and lighter floral range that makes a lot of sheng distinctive.  I see it as balancing well as it is, just not in the conventional sheng profile form.

2024:  quite different; I love this already.  The other expresses heavy floral tones, bordering on rich dried fruit, along the line of dried mango or apricot, but this expresses different heavy floral and fruit range.  It's syrupy in texture, and there's a thickness, warmth, and heaviness to the flavor tones as well.  There's a trace of dry mineral edge to this version, which could either dissipate as an early round tone, or develop and probably shift to a slightly different flavor and feel range.

That heavy, rich floral tone is indescribable.  It's like walking into a flower shop where a lot of the product range is on the heavier side, orchids, roses, and lavender, and then being able to taste that heavy mixed scent as an intense version of a brewed beverage.  Could it be too much?  I suppose.  But then sheng pushing into extremes across a lot of range of intensity is part of the appeal.  It's usually just not this exact range; more typically tones would be brighter, light floral, including stronger mineral, some bitterness, and perhaps a bit of medicinal or herbal quality.  This is straight rich floral tones with a base of limited dried fruit, which will probably continue to be heavier in the other.

As so often happens I don't have the full hour plus to spare on this review so I'll keep brewing these a bit strong to push the transition process along.  These would be fine brewed lighter, taking 3 rounds to really get going instead of 2, then experienced lighter after that, but it's fine to rush them too.  

To me that's another strength of this tea too, that you can drink as very positive in character made in different ways.  For some sheng you need to drink it light to brew around high intensity, bitterness, and astringency, and I've tried other wild origin versions where you need to push them just to get normal intensity range out of it.  Neither limitation applies to these; they will work well both ways.

2023 #2:  feel structure isn't exactly what I remember, even though I last drank this tea in the last few days.  It's different when brewed heavier, at a higher infusion strength.  An astringency structure edge like that of black tea enters in, just a very mild form of it.  As a result the sweetness level seemed to drop way back.  I suppose brewing this for 10 to 15 seconds instead of 20 to 30 will bring it right back.

Feel is very rich.  There's a structure to it too, and stronger mineral than you get brewing it lighter, with floral tones and dried fruit less pronounced in the balance.  If this follows the pattern I'm remembering dried fruit comes out much heavier in later rounds, another reason I want to rush this to get through some transition.  

I still like this tea brewed in this way but the appeal isn't optimized, per my preference.  It's interesting the way feel structure and aftertaste ramp up so much.  Made this way this tea could stand up to a lot of food adjoining it, even rich and heavy versions, or breakfast foods with different aspect sets, the intensity and sourness of a strawberry cobbler, or sweetness and heaviness of a raisin pastry.  To drink this alone brewing it lighter would be better, for me.

2024:  to me this is just magical.  I love the other version, but this is richer, deeper, more complex, more floral, with more dried fruit base.  All that from a tea with less time to transition to include more depth, as occurs in the first year or two, if teas are stored in hot and humid conditions.  

To me this fruit includes a citrus tone, leaning towards bergamot.  In other tea types you typically don't experience that paired with heavy floral range, and warm tones; together it's really something.  It can come up in Darjeeling, or more as dried citrus peel in other types, often pronounced in Oriental Beauty / Dong Fang Mei Ren versions, often adjoining cinnamon spice, but the context and other flavors typically don't match this range.  The sweetness resembles honey as well, not a warm, rich version of it but a lighter type, I suppose one the bees made from orange blossoms.

Returning to one running thread, what is not to love about this experience?  It's not conventional sheng; there is that.  Bitterness is present but at a very low level; astringency structure gives it a base but that's light, and not in the same form.  It includes some mineral range but that would be easy to miss, instead of a dominant aspect balancing evenly with bitterness, astringency, sweetness, and light floral tones.

I'll be able to taste a third round without a break but then six small cups of this will be too much to keep going.  Water input for a palate break alone would work, or some food.  One Krispy Kreme glazed donut is holding down the function of coating my stomach to protect it; it's a lot to ask of just one.

2023 #3:  this seems a little flatter than I remember.  I think the comparison with a younger version is not helping, that the brighter, fresher, more intense floral range is dropping back.  

I suspect that there is an odd twist occurring with an uneven compression in this cake version too.  In the middle of the pressed disk it's frustrating how much more dense it is, hard to tease apart, or actually impossible in relation to how the 2024 version is much, much looser, so that you don't really even need a pu'er knife to access whole twisted leaves.  But I think that part has age-transitioned much slower, preserved by the lack of air contact, resulting in an odd slow-rate transition form.  That compression related transition restriction seems to draw out dried fruit tones.  Or maybe I  just imagine all this, and I've actually walked off the map.

Without the other being so much more intense, in terms of floral and fruit range, and sweetness, with a more pronounced citrus input, this would seem to express all of that, to an extent.  Fruit is more subdued, and it seems closer to dried peach or apricot than that other lighter tone.  Floral range is pronounced, but it's more of a subtle and broad layer.  Then warm tones integrate differently.  It doesn't seem right saying that it seems muted, because it's not that, but it is dialed down a little in relation to the other.  

Again, as with the other, bitterness and astringency edge being so moderate wouldn't suit everyone.  It's not standard sheng character.

2024:  fruit and floral range just pops, in a pleasant warm and rich context.  Feel seems almost liqueur-like.  It's sort of like that effect from eating a chocolate covered cherry, a theme that might have been more familiar 30 years ago, at Christmas time.  In some teas a related effect I describe as being like cognac or brandy, but this lacks the intensity of that volatile component from the alcohol.  In a different, lighter form some teas seem perfume-like, and it's closer to that, but the base context also isn't a match for that lighter volatile base in perfume.  Citrusy range is serving the same role, closer to a bergamot input.

I could relate to others seeing this as not balanced, missing the pronounced bitterness, astringency, and mineral layers in most sheng.  This is sheng for an oolong drinker, I guess.  I don't see myself as unable to appreciate moderately challenging sheng, and even feel like having the harsher tasting experience of a 10 or 12 year old Xiaguan tuocha once in awhile, or the corresponding Dayi Jia Ji tuo aspect set, well prior to when drinking either makes the most sense.  But I don't need that kind of edge or structure--a lighter version of it--to balance a tea for me to enjoy it.

I just read another tea friend describing Shui Xian, the Wuyishan / Wuyi Yancha version, not the Dan Cong plant input range, as tying to gan, the bitterness returning as sweetness effect, from "hui gan," more or less "returning sweetness."  It's an effect that happens after you swallow the tea.  That's not how I ever interpret that experience, from good, bad, or medium quality Shui Xian, but I can kind of get where he was going.  

Part of the complexity--in Shui Xian Wuyi Yancha, I'm still on that--relates to astringency range, and another part ties to complex flavor input, which varies a lot in different versions.  Bitterness isn't so typical, as with sheng, but a significant edge that takes different forms is.  He compared that to black tea experience, as being different but somehow vaguely related.  I get it; I agree, it's just down to parsing out partial similarities.  That's sort of what I'm describing as missing here, that edge.  

I don't miss the astringency, bitterness, and mineral layers though, filled in here by warmth, sweetness, rich but smoother feel, and other flavor depth.  This tea would be amazing with some of that range dialed up, but to me it's already really good in a different way.

2023 #4:  even better brewed lightly, for no more than 10 seconds.  Floral tone is much stronger.  I'd see sweetness as very pronounced, although direct comparison with a slightly sweeter tea offsets that judgment.  Warm, rich dried fruit tones are just starting to pick up, to me closest to dried apricot range at this point.

2024:  it's interesting how this version comes across so differently for including a good bit of citrus tone.  It lightens everything, and a slightly sweeter flavor range shifts context.  Fullness of feel and flavor depth play some of the same role that much heavier different inputs do in more conventional sheng.

Is this yeasty, or too heavy?  Does it drift into odd mineral range, or bread-like flavors?  I suppose, if someone is included to see it that way.  It tastes a bit like a butter croissant, or really more like a cinnamon raisin roll, not the cinnamon or raisin part so directly, but that pastry base.

this version is vegan; probably more like one made with butter

There is a touch of vegetal edge too, maybe just now entering in.  It's hard to identify for mixing with other range; maybe like green wood.

2023 #5:  note that I've not mentioned cha qi / body feel effect yet; what is that like?  Don't know.  It seems likely to me that some people are more sensitive to such things, or less so, and that vendors emphasize and even exaggerate such claims because it works as extra easily accessible, hard to critique marketing spin.  

You don't get that?  That's your own limitation.  It also makes a difference if someone doesn't eat food right before trying a tea, and drinks through a lot of rounds of one single type.  I'm not in it for the buzz anyway.  I did my time as a drug user, and I'm happy to not live that out.  Maybe I run long distances in heat at high heart rate to experience something related, but I don't see it that way.  I drank some water and ate a second glazed donut between the last two rounds; it will be all the harder to notice feel shifts as a result, which is fine.  I'd rather protect my stomach than appreciate my head spinning a little.

Brewed light (again) richness and floral tones extend, with dried fruit gradually increasing in proportion.  This tea doesn't need to be pushed, and it's better when you don't go there.  Limited feel structure, richness, and warm toned flavor depth (extra complexity) has to fill in the role that harsher aspects do in most sheng, and most other teas in general.  People who rushed through tea exploration from black teas onto sheng, barely pausing to cover oolong range, might not "get it."  

For white tea drinkers this may be all the more amazing; it's more intense, and in a related experience range.  This is what a shou mei would age to be like in a better than ideal case.  It just never gets there.

2024:  the balance of what I keep describing shifts again.  Rich and warm floral tone stands out, general sweetness, and a bright citrus edge.  Some warm mineral grounds that, and a distinct secondary aspect is just now entering in, like tea berry, between berry range and mint.

That could be interpreted in all sorts of ways.  What I've described as a touch of yeasty, bread-like, pastry aspect has shifted some too.  It's a bit like that warm, odd, distinctive edge in apple cider now, the flavor tone you don't need to actually drink the cider to experience, already present in the smell.  It's just so light that you do need to drink the tea to even notice it in this.

Conclusions

I'd better let this go for now.  Aspects will shift a little more, some of which will be positive, before these fade.  It's looking like that dried fruit flavor depth will pick up a bit more in the first (2023 version), and the second will gain unusual complexity, at least one more subtle shift that I don't see coming.  

Because these are so mild the edgier feel and flavor that tends to enter in across later rounds for sheng, often expressed as ramped-up bitterness, mineral, or even wood tone, will probably balance reasonably well.  Then sweetness and heavy floral range fading will be less positive, so in the end the teas might just be different, not so much better or worse.  At a guess the first might seem to cover it's best range, since per past experience the fruit really seems to come out, but the second losing that heavy initial floral punch probably represents the best of it's range already transitioning out.

It was interesting using the theme of considering which aspects I love could be seen as negative by others.  For me these are two personal favorites, teas that I absolutely love.  For anyone matching up with my own preferences directly these would be fantastic.  I would imagine that includes people who love oolongs as much as any other types, and then also rich flavored white teas and mild and flavorful black teas, like Dian Hong.  For sheng pu'er drinkers I guess it would just depend.

Vietnamese sheng from Huyen

 

Huyen is always so cheerful like this

One of my absolute favorite tea friends just visited, or really is still here visiting Bangkok, Huyen Dinh from Vietnam.  She and her whole family are a different kind of people, radiant and angelic, just wonderful. 

Visiting and catching up was so nice.  It included meeting her friend Seth, an American she travels with and works on tea research with.  Time was tight that day of a first visit and two hours just flew by.

She gave me some tea, a whole cake of Vietnamese sheng.  It was a bit too generous, but so that can go when you have friends like that.  Her description is this:

This tea cake is from Hoàng Thu Phố, Bắc Hà, Lào Cai province. It was made in 2023. Mostly old tea trees belongs to the H’mong people.

The tea is from here; with the label shown following:

Seth filled in even more background:

The area Hoang Thu Pho is in Lao Cai province on the east side of the Red River, which flows into Vietnam from Yunnan. It's in a mountain range called Tay Con Linh that peaks further eastward in Ha Giang (province). Son La is in a different mountain range called Hoang Lien Son with slightly higher elevation on the west side of the Red River, and also sits on the Black River, which also flows in from Yunnan. Both tea areas are owned by members of Hmong people groups.

The tea maker for the Hoang Thu Pho cake is a younger guy named Phuc who has been making tea for about six years. He is not Hmong, but he buys tea material from Hmong tea areas and wants to focus on making high quality teas.

He is doing a fantastic job.  He might be able to shift style to match standard Yunnan versions a little more closely, but that might involve a trade-off of positive aspects instead of improving results, given how good this already is.

Review:

infusion #1:  just fantastic!  I let this brew a little long, in order to skip the part about not being able to identify any aspects.  Of course I didn't use a rinse.  You can tell it's going to be like this from the dry scent, which is very sweet and floral, which contains plenty of other range that's harder to isolate.  I never review tea by dry leaf smell though; brewed liquid description is plenty to get through.

Sweetness and floral range is intense, especially for this being the initial round.  There is one or more very distinctive aspects in this that I'm probably never going to do justice to describing.  It includes honey sweetness, that one warm tone, but I don't mean that.  Floral range is bright, also warm, and complex, but I think I mean beyond that too.  It could just be how those two inter-relate, with the honey including beeswax, but I think there is also vegetal or light spice range making this seem a lot more complex.  

Regardless of getting a flavor-list breakdown right it's fantastic.  In relation to my own preference, of course; this is just what I like.  For others it might seem unfamiliar, or they might not be on this page.  I couldn't relate to someone not liking it, since bitterness and feel are really approachable at this early stage, but preferences do vary.

#2:  intensity is really good in this.  I'm probably brewing about 7 grams in a 90-100 ml gaiwan (depending on how you judge the volume, if you include the top that doesn't fill), and using a short time, not much over 10 seconds, and it's quite intense.  

I think it might be that beeswax part that is making this seem so distinctive and pleasant, along with the complex floral range.  Of course there is nice light toned underlying mineral filling in range and complexity.  And more bitterness in this round; that should increase again next round and then level off.  It's not bitter at all compared to what I'm accustomed to, just in a normal sheng range, not relatively bitter, or if anything below average at this point.  The feel is soft and full; aftertaste adds to the experience of complexity.  It's good, really good.

From there it's down to trying to identify the one part that I still think I'm missing.  It might be two parts; this might include a little warm aromatic incense spice that supports and fills in the warm tone the beeswax covers.  Then in the lighter range the floral tone might be expanded on by a light spice taste along the line of lemongrass, but then that might not be it.

note that I'm not editing photos to adjust for camera input variations

#3:  bitterness never did ramp up to a level I expected, and feel stayed full and rich, never picking up the sharp astringency edge common in some younger sheng.  That's all a good thing, really.  I can tolerate, or even appreciate, quite a bit of bitterness or astringency edge if it's paired with complementary flavors and other aspects, but it's easier to relate to a tea version like this.  

This normally leads me directly into a longish discussion of root causes and inputs; why is this version probably like this?  Is it from a cultivar difference, or processing, did they let it oxidize a little more (probably partly that), or heat it a little more than is typical (shifting it towards green tea style), or could there be other inputs, related to growing conditions, tea plant age, or whatever else?  It would all just be guesses anyway; the tea is what it is.

Flavor isn't changing or evolving but it was quite complex from the start, so that's fine.  Warm tones might be picking up slightly in relation to the rest, but that kind of impression will shift with infusion strength of any given round.  The honey sweetness is really captivating, combined with rich and complex floral tone range.  This is already one of my favorite teas, three rounds in.

#4:  that flavor list breakdown isn't really changing, but there is some evolution in how it comes together, the overall impression.  Feel richness might keep gradually increasing.  Flavors don't shift much but very subtle changes in balance of what is present might continue.  

The softness of this and mild bitterness both lean the character towards oolong range.  I'm not really saying that it's probably significantly oxidized but that may be it; the brewed liquid color is a dark yellow instead of a bright yellow.  If that is it this may be better drank quite young instead of aged, but for being as good as it is I wouldn't age this to hope it improved anyway, I'd just drink it, and drink most of it right now.

#5:  all the same comments from the last round apply to this one, maybe even the very slight shift in how it comes across, a change in the overall balance, which is hard to describe.

I can't help but suspect I'm missing a possible interpretation, that this really does taste like something else I'm leaving out.  Maybe it's light toffee flavor instead of honey, something like that, or maybe it shifted from one to the other.  The aftertaste range is really ramped up now; it's just as strong after you swallow it as when it's in your mouth.  Someone good at breaking down floral range might construct a list to describe just that part, as a warm tone that dominates, a brighter tone matching other range, and who knows what else.  There's a lot of floral scope.  

It's all very pleasant; that's the main effect.  Not in a unique or novel way that's not easy to relate to either; I could drink this every day for a month.  Even an oolong drinker who can't tolerate much bitterness might really love this tea version.

later infusions:  the notes stopped there; I had something to do.  I noticed a bit of citrus picking up in later rounds, later on.  Of course it was warm citrus, more like tangerine or some type of orange than lemon, maybe more yet like dried peel.

The rich feel shifted too.  It never had picked up that feel structure that sheng often has, which could be negative for some, but which sheng drinkers end up liking, giving tea an extra experiential complexity, as the aftertaste does.  It took on a sappy sort of feel, which comes up in different teas sometimes, but not in consistent enough ways that I can describe a range of other types it might be common to.

It didn't seem any less positive in later rounds.  I'm not sure that it transitioned to become more pleasant and positive either, but then I already loved it in earlier rounds.  One of my favorite teas reminds me of this, just in a different form, a Thai sheng version that just doesn't fade.  But it doesn't transition that much either; what you get after 3 or 4 rounds isn't so different after 10 or 12, or more, and this kept varying a little.

Conclusions

This is comparable to a Son La sheng from Viet Sun, one that I bought not so long ago, and also love.  It is so similar in some ways and quite different in others.  This has a slightly softer feel, thick but not structured or astringent, and I think both are oxidized just a little more than conventional Yunnan pu'er.  The flavor range is comparable but different, with a good bit more bitterness in that version.  It might be that the Son La is a well-made version from good material and this is a well-made version, in a closely related but different style, from slightly better material, from an unusual quality range.  I do really like that tea too though, so I don't mean for that positioning to make it sound like it's less-than.  It might be interesting to drink them side by side.

Huyen described differences between the two growing areas, which I can guess at here and then edit later once she reads this, and notices the errors.  From memory she said that plant types could be different (or vary across individual areas too), even though they're not so geographically removed, and growing elevation range is probably different, with that tea grown a bit higher.  

It really wouldn't work to describe processing differences.  She did tell a story about one area using a more centralized processing center (or more than one?), and another relying on farmers doing the processing, but I don't remember which is which, and that story could have even related to two other areas.  It hardly matters anyway; ideal processing doesn't relate to one particular background context (a processing center versus an individual doing it, for example), it's about the steps being optimum, the temperature of the wok, turning the leaves during heating, batch size, isolation from smoke exposure (too much; a little might be interesting, but that's another story), rolling step outcome, drying approach and conditions, etc.

There is so much more I should add about Huyen and Seth, but I wanted this post to mostly just be a tea review.  He is also easy to relate to, a good guy, and a good reference for a range of tea themes, I've just emphasized an earlier connection with Huyen and her family more because that has meant a lot to me, for a long time.  

I don't know how much they want to release about the interesting things they are working on now, their research.  That story will be out at some point though, and I think they'll come back after a visit to the North, the Thai growing areas.  Maybe I can add more when I describe them holding a local tasting to share Vietnamese tea experience with other tea enthusiasts here, probably in two weeks.

This also fails to cover everything I've discussed about general Vietnamese teas with Huyan and Seth lately, about tea types and quality levels, source areas, processing issues, shifts in supply and demand, sustainability / conservation issues, and so on.  If it works out I'll collect a clearer summary of those issues and post more about them.  A local tea outing brought up potential updates about boutique producer versions of specialty Thai teas; I'll try to get to that too.

meeting Huyen and Seth and two other local friends in a Bangkok shop

the Thai teas at that shop were exceptional, really next level

visiting a favorite local restaurant and desert place, Cheng Shim Ei

my company for the tastings, when I'm outside