Derrick Jensen on teen development and environmentalism

 

not the article I'm starting in about, but also relevant, here

A friend recently shared an interesting short video by environmentalist "philosopher" Derrick Jensen, about development problems young people encounter.  It wasn't really mostly about that, since he was extending that idea--really about personal development and transformation--to include why culture needed to change, especially in relation to environmental perspective.  It adds up to a range of interesting ideas.

I'll cover what he said in this, explaining it a bit, especially unpacking that extended range.  I'll mention a second longer interview where he clarifies what he meant, and covers more of the rest.  His more general point is that the current Western perspective on environment isn't tenable, that we are headed towards ecological collapse.  

The more specific early point was that young people feel an inclination towards personal transition, in their late teens and early 20s, and experience this as an inclination to an (end), since they don't realize that it's about personal development, not personal extinction.  Of course this is edited to take out how he framed it; these websites and platforms are so restrictive now that if include certain words all of the writing will be censored. 

I think he's missing a big part of it all, a layer that really goes in between those two ideas.  I think young people do experience a real transition phase, as he describes, and agree that the current impact to the natural environment isn't sustainable in the long term.  

He talks about people blowing up dams in response; I'm not sure that his radical eco-terrorism approach is practical.  Then I think he's not fully unpacking how cultural supports and required culture change needs to happen, instead of applying this radical end-of-the-world approach.  It could work as a critique, in a limited sense, that he's copying the immature, not fully considered approach of young people towards their own problem (I must change, which can be accomplished by personal cessation) onto how Western society needs to change.

Maybe society will crash and end in spectacular fashion, and 90+% of all current humans will be extinct over the next few decades.  It's more practical to consider other possible outcomes.  As a talking point it works well, as a way of really placing broader environmental issues.

Let's start with the initial video, which is interesting, and framed in a novel form.  His words:

These kids want to (end).  And the reason they want to (end) is because they're teenagers, and when you're a teenager you're supposed to want to (end), but that (end) is supposed to be metaphorical and spiritual.  Your childhood has to (end) so you can become an adult.  But nobody's told them that it's metaphorical and spiritual, so they have this () urge, that they then actualize in the physical world, as opposed to through ritual or through maturity.

I've often thought that it's similar that you know this culture is so wretched and so many people are so very, very unhappy.  They want this nightmare to end and they don't recognize that the death that they want is a cultural (end), and is a spiritual and metaphorical (end), especially because within this culture you know the spirit is separated from the Earth, and from the flesh, and so you know you can't have this transformation that simply occurs in your body.  And so they (end) the world and all physical reality as opposed to that spiritual transformation.

Great stuff!  It's clear enough what that means, isn't it?  At least the first part.  It's about the "hero's journey," the Joseph Campbell idea that young people faced with self-discovery demands typically undergo a pre-established pattern of internal transformation, initiated by first looking outward for the basis for changes that really need to occur internally.

Derrick Jensen covers more on all this in this extended Youtube video, again on Why Young People Want to (End) (interviewed by a conservative Youtuber, who wasn't really into the environmentalism theme so much, so it's scope is limited there).  I won't fully break that down, but this is based more on his broader take from there than the minute or two clip version.  It includes that video clip, and his direct explanation of it, but then the whole video is a longer expansion on the same ideas.

I think that we can accept and set aside that the first half works.  People have different experiences in their youth, and suicidal thoughts aren't experienced by everyone, but to some extent the transition patterns do apply in different forms to everyone.  These are interesting points, but there isn't a lot more to make of them.

The second part we can do a lot more with.  Do people really want their native culture to come to an end, seeing it as untenable?  He doesn't even cover there what the problem is.  His take is mostly about environmentalism, although surely there must be other dimensions he doesn't get to in that other second explanation.  I found another video where he covers it all more directly, which I'll draw on more after some limited discussion.

Only the deeper basis for his ideas really helps explain what the problem with environmental destruction is.  Of course climate change is coming, and we're in the midst of a die-off of many of the other species on the planet.  One of his early works was about how trees really do communicate with each other in a vast range of forms, exchanging chemical messages, seemingly communicating intent and concern for other plant life.  It helps to see the natural world as having inherent agency and value, in order to not place humanity as the single main goal to be served in this world.  Then a conclusion that human civilization should either radically change form or else should end makes more sense.

 

I want to keep the scope limited to these ideas, because it's plenty to discuss, but in another famous online talk on anarchism he leads into other range as follows (from "Anarchism and Queer Theory Jeopardy):

Here's the problem is that or one of the problems is again the sort of black and white thinking where just because there are some social norms that are oppressive therefore all social norms must be destroyed and that leads anarchism to some atrocity-inducing madness.  For example there is a long correlation between anarchism and pedophilia and support for pedophilia...

Of course he's not moving towards supporting pedophilia, surely the opposite, but he is developing problems with a conventional take on anarchy itself in an unusual way.  This point doesn't adjoin or support the rest of what I'm actually getting to; the idea here is that he is communicating parts of a broad set of ideas, broader than I'll even point towards, and that it all may hang together better than it seems when just considering parts of it.

Sketching out Derrick Jensen's issues with society

The direction he is taking these ideas, in the original clip, and the longer explanation video covering the same scope, is that "Western society" or industrial based human civilization is fatally flawed because its interests directly conflict with the basic survival of the natural world.  He seems to think that ecological catastrophe is already well underway, and that the natural world will be further impacted in devastating fashion by the continued existence of modern technological human society.

What to do about that, if we accept it?  He calls for it all to end.  That's bold, pointing towards the collapse of human society as a positive outcome.  He literally suggests that people blowing up dams is one possible positive step towards ecological recovery, advocating radical and extensive forms of terrorism.  

Is he serious?  It could just be an extreme version of a talking point.  The way he frames it all it's not though.  Wouldn't a vast majority of the people currently alive relatively quickly come to perish if this happened on a broad scale, a dropping out of supporting infrastructure, which would be followed by a human die-off?  Sure.

So he's crazy?  Unless he means all of this in some figurative sense then he is radically disconnected from practical reality.

Following an old guideline form in philosophical discussion we can try to interpret his ideas as making the most sense possible, as filling in what he should have said, if he was more reasonable, developing the ideas some.  Again, to be clear, I'm not going to fully do justice to his ideas, because I'm not about to go and read a half dozen books in order to write an even better 2000 word commentary blog post (although again, I will work with more direct background content I've turned up at the end).

Is our current society--the US version, let's say--truly a "wretched nightmare?"  Kind of; that actually kind of works.  US society is far less stable and positive than it was 25 years ago, and many of the deep-seated flaws were already evident then.  Division of wealth is much more problematic than it was then; crime also is, health problems related to people's diets, social issues, etc.  

I've recently seen a couple of test case issues that highlight this in more specific forms.  In one a pharmaceutical industry insider explained how the US drug approval system has evolved to put so much weight on private interests, and the input of solid financing, that drugs are now approved that people know don't work.  It's documented that they don't, by the very research used to support their approval.  How and why?  Because the system has morphed to accept the influence of potential profit as the highest good.  Corporate interests pay for studies and re-position what they express, and then pay for support within approval agencies.  It becomes irrelevant that the drugs don't work; that's not a critical point.  When early acceptance guidelines emphasize the importance of effectiveness, and evidence assuring that, it works to just change those guidelines.

A second video I've seen recently was by a young woman reviewing what food additives are in current commercial food and health care products (this one), which can be identified as probably bad for your health.  She ended up throwing away a lot of what was in her home.  Many of these chemical compounds are banned for use in the EU, because likely potential negative impact is known, for ingredients like food colors, preservatives, artificial flavor inputs, or stabilizers.  

The "why" is the same; because it's profitable.  Corporate interests control regulatory input more than a respect for the common good.  It's cheaper for huge corporations to use chemicals instead of natural product inputs to mass produce goods, and influence with legislators and then indirect influence with regulatory agencies have led to this.

Of course it keeps going.  The petroleum industry has suppressed uptake of renewable resource fuels; essentially everyone already knows this.  It's a call-back to the lead industry limiting already-known awareness of the impact of that compound, or to the smoking industry delaying the finding that smoking definitely causes cancer by decades.  In general no significant government decisions or restrictions are decided based on the long term health of the environment.  The US government has taken a hands-off approach to even climate change resolution; they're not playing any role in it, beyond making it possible for corporations to also avoid the subject.

I'm not really trying to argue these points.  If you think the opposite is true, that the US government has US citizens' and the environment's best interests in mind, and that it all might somehow turn around, then that seems to ignore a very obvious and pervasive reality, to me.  In a sense such a person would live in a more pleasant reality than this real one.

The next transition, "killing the world"

If Derrick Jensen really is advocating radical environmental terrorism, and the end of human civilization as we know it, then he's extending the same set of perspective context and final conclusion from the suicidal teens all the way up to a societal level.  We can't tolerate this impact to the environment, so we need to kill civilization itself, just as impending personal transition could be resolved through death by suicide.  He covers all the background here.

Surely Derrick sees this.  One way to resolve this problem is to accept that it's all intended in a figurative sense.  He is talking about blowing up dams not because people should do this, or it really would serve some purpose, but instead because it describes just how radical a change would need to be, just not one that actually takes that form.  

US corporate control of government needs to end.  People marching with signs won't help, and people writing books also won't.  Blowing up dams probably wouldn't be a practical resolution, but some shift on that level of severity and completeness is required.  It's absolutely impossible at this time, given the current set of conditions, but then he's saying the impossible will need to happen.  I kind of agree.  One dam coming down would be kind of a shame but it might be worth the sacrifice, to raise awareness.

I don't see any potential practical resolution either.  Actual large scale terrorism probably really wouldn't be helpful, as a step towards expanded dialog.  Protests extended to the level of public rioting may be.

There is no likely trigger for this to occur, that I can see.  People protested unfair treatment by the police in the US last, as waves of broad protest went, but then underlying tensions from pandemic experience helped stoke that discontent, and it was an openly known problem for decades that justice isn't blind to race or economic status inputs in the US.  Millions of people had been through negative personal experiences; this was not an abstract issue.  Maybe that really did help, a little.

Climate change being likely to greatly impact the next generation, and the ones after, is something else.  It's gradual and subtle, up until an environmental input destroys your own home, and then it's not.

Why does it seem that Derrick means this end of civilization mandate literally?

It all works well as a hypothetical statement of importance, a way of framing the context.  If humanity cannot stop impacting the natural environment, and if this seems to clearly be leading towards ecological collapse, then this form of human civilization should be ended.  Of course it's framed as an imperative to work on the first two, that way.  So why do I take it more literally?

In that second interview, that I mentioned but didn't discuss yet, Derrick implies that this is what he means, that industrial society must be attacked, literally.  He says that this demand is difficult for people to fulfill because industrial society is feeding people, providing them with safety.  It's all offered as if a radical solution really is a main one on the table, that people should temporarily turn aside from their own clear interests and go and blow up a dam, literally.

To some extent he's really saying that we need to burn it all down.

Again in a limited sense I agree.  It's not workable to have corporate interests and the main goals of a very small and very wealthy minority set government policies, and determine government functions.  We see this failing in a number of critical ways.  The unequal division of wealth in the US has become untenable, within the last decade.  This is too fast for things to change so negatively and so completely.

Derrick explains that this has been going on for thousands of years, and that the natural environment in the Middle East is a clear historical reference to where it was headed.  He claims that places like Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, and others were not wastelands, 2 to 3000 years ago, and that human societies turned lush and productive lands into what they are now, mostly deserts.  Maybe; I'm not really much of a biologist.

In studying the philosophy of history a recurring theme came up, that civilizations experience a natural lifespan of origin, expansion and development, aging, stagnation, and radical decline.  In the two forms this was presented in, in Middle Eastern Islamic philosophy and in a US based offshoot in the early 20th century, there was no clear explanation of the cause for this transition.  Ecological impact could've been a main driver, or a naturally progressive unequal distribution of wealth, related to infrastructure burden, or any number of other causes.  Maybe relatively complete destruction of the environment is a universal theme.

Maybe even if the reset form is problematic, actually causing any end of civilization from within, this is the only trade-off that would stop the process.

Even though it's a bit secondary one point Derrick raises is worth considering; there is no possibility of a successful "green movement."  People are arguing over generation of power being sustainable, which is 20% of the energy actually consumed by any society.  If that could be 100% resolved, which is already impossible, the problem would still be only 80% solved.  

I suppose a die-off within humanity is promising.  If somehow 90+% of everyone alive today died within the next two decades, and were not replaced, it's possible that under 1 billion humans could be sustained in a different kind of way.

Another impossible alternative

Something is being left out here though, along the line of the disconnect between elected governments and who is really running the US.  

People continue to identify as conservatives or liberals in the US, as Republicans or Democrats, and as I see it this elected leadership is clearly not acting in the interests of the country as a whole, or the citizens of the US.  It's not industrial society that needs to be rejected and deleted, it's the US political system, and any other version that can turn a blind eye to critical factors, like the destruction of the natural environment.  All US elected leaders, from the last dozen Presidents on down to local leaders, serve themselves and the financial interests that support them, not the people, or the country.

It just trades out one impossible task for another, deleting a system of rulership and control instead of an underlying mechanism or layer, the industrialized economy.  There is no way that this can be changed in any way.  A vast minority of that layer of controlling interests would need to want to make the same change in order for initial stages of it to begin.  It would run counter to their own best interests, as those are currently defined.  Overall consumption of goods would need to be completely reversed, which is all but unforeseeable.

To some extent it's not industrial society that people can't wrap their minds around rejecting, which would prevent them from continuing to eat.  It's the false paradigm of divisions of people into two broad types, conservatives and liberals.  Even if that were to fall it's not a given that it would lead to much more complete transparency and better intentions within human experience.  There are some real aspects to this divide, but at the most functional level it means nothing in relation to the more official meaning.  There is no "good side" to be on, only the two bad sides, both of which fully support the status quo.  

Republican and Democratic leaders know that a main goal of leadership has long since been driving the wealth divide, the good of the few.  They know that the pharmaceutical industry isn't mainly focused on promoting good health.  It's known that food quality is dropping to a dangerous level, that a lot of what people eat is now poison, which is a means towards food production companies making good profits.  It just keeps going from there.  It's obvious that the natural environment is going away.

Ignoring climate change is just one more relatively benign example, even though it is known that this will severely impact the next two generations, and possibly human experience beyond that.  It's known that US government debt is untenable, that the collapse of the US is being assured by each subsequent annual budget.  The role of outrageous defense spending is obvious in relation to this point, and the primary goal of personal profit in that pursuit, instead of national security.

So why would Derrick set his sights back on infrastructure, on the continued existence of modern industrial society?  To an extent this is the most direct link in the cause and effect chain that threatens the natural environment.  Carbon release unbalances global climate, and deforestation and species extinction literally eliminates the earlier natural environment.  Derrick sees that environment as a higher natural good than human existence.  I don't completely blame him.

But why, since he is also a member of the human race?  I suppose the myriad of problems in human societies must be a big part of that.  So many human stories are about suffering now.  You wouldn't need to be on the receiving end of too many of those forms of societal failure to truly resent it.  There is so little hope for comprehensive reform now, essentially none.

These large scale disasters are our only hope, really.  Nothing will change for as long as the current status quo goes as "well" as it currently does.  We can't realistically dream that a small group of well-intentioned billionaires are already planning out a form of this broad reset for us.  It would be just as practical to count on alien intervention to change things.

I saw a humorous bumper sticker post promoting "vote giant asteroid strike 2024."  Derrick just completes that connection, as a real hope.

I too love animals and the natural environment.  Maybe as much as anyone else I get it.  It's hard not to think that things will need to get infinitely worse before they can get any better.  Hoping for the end of US civilization seems a bit extreme, but I get it, it does make sense, on one level.

Oiirabot Assam hand made black tea

Tippier version left (per description), but they look similar

I've written about this general theme before, about protecting small farmers by arranging growing and processing co-ops to produce higher quality, organically grown, orthodox tea, and preserve farmers' way of life by selling better tea more directly, to increase created value and the proportion returned to them.  One might wonder, how is this different?

It sounds a bit like the case of Assamica Agro, or Assam Teahaus, the venture by Maddhurjya Gogoi, the tea producer / coordinator I met here in Bangkok awhile back.  I'd be guessing to venture how this initiative it is different, but I will do that.

I just met one of the main people developing this visiting Bangkok, Jaba Borgohain.  I didn't see any web page references for the producer these are labeled under, Oiirabot, but Jaba's profile page did reference the Organic Assam Campaign.

Jaba is visiting the local university my family has the closest ties to, Chulalongkorn, my wife's former school, for an education conference event not related to the subject of tea.  The approach here is going to be for me to guess how these different ventures differ, and shed more light on hers, and then let her correct that by passing on more feedback in a later post.  The potential for adding some error is present, since I did just meet her for a few hours and talked some about this, after discussing it by message for a week or so.   But passing on an initial rough take is completely valid, as I see it.


To be clear these different ventures all are doing similar things in similar ways; I don't want to take away from that, or reject it.  The same is true of discussing this issue with Narendra Kumar Gurung related to Nepal, or that contact in the North of Thailand, Aphiwat Kokhue, or related to what Anna and William are supporting in Laos, through NGO development projects (covered lots of place in this blog, but last mentioned here, with links to follow).  This isn't about saying this project is somehow better or more important than those.  It seems unique, but only to a limited extent.  To me the general approach is great, and all of these initiatives sound uniquely promising.

Jaba is also trying to reconstruct past tea history, researching what was produced and how over the past, so that the end point isn't to produce Chinese style or fusion themed teas related to current market demand.  It's to produce the best possible tea using traditional sources and methodology, making some adjustments for optimizing results along the way.  She's not trying to import as much foreign processing approach or equipment as possible, or to change over types of teas being grown (again, all this is my understanding; maybe some retraction and clarification will follow).

These development themes always vary a little related to those sorts of focuses.  The work Anna and William are doing in Laos is more or less trying to bring Laos tea up to Chinese standards, for better versions from there, which would involve adjusting processing in relation to a foreign standard and type.  That's not such a bad thing, since those two tea traditions there are continuous, in an old form.  Probably processing has shifted to some extent over the last half a century in China (or improved over the last 20 years, as likely), but the style of tea hasn't changed as much as refinements have made best versions more universal.  Or at least that's my understanding.

Maddhurjya is trying to import Taiwanese tea production equipment (not just trying; he's done it); and probably is borrowing from foreign tea production styles.  That's also not such a bad thing.  A vendor in Indonesia related how they were going for a complete fusion of tea plant sources, processing steps, equipment use, and final styles outcome (Toba Wangi, with a vendor profile here; those teas I tried from them were great).  I can relate to why some people would appreciate the native-approach theme a lot more, but it's not as if it's the only valid starting point or input.

The tea itself will tell some of the story about how results go so far.  And Jaba can correct what I've said that's a bit of a miss, or fill in more details.  I'll let the package description add more background, to clarify that I'm not just re-interpreting discussion points as ran across them:

Handmade Tales is a specialty tea brand of Oiirabot, a tea enterprise based in tea city, Dibrugarh, Assam (India).  Oiirabot specializes in handcrafted chemical-free premium teas, cultivated in remote regions of Assam.

Oiirabot works in close colaboration with the small tea growers of Assam to create premium quality tea varieties and promote chemical-free tea farming among the tea growers of Assam.  Other range of premium tea products under Handmade Tales:

White Tea
Blue Tea [so oolong?]
Bamboo Smoked Tea [she passed on some falap / phalap, which I've never yet tried]
Green Tea with Silver Tips
Black Tea with Golden Tips
Assamese Traditional Smoked Dheki Tea


I didn't emphasize that organic theme, even though she and I talked a lot about the pros and cons of certifications.  In short I had told her that doesn't seem to be a primary selling point in the US, even though it is definitely a practical concern people are very aware of.

Review:

I'll prepare these Gongfu style, even though the package lists Western brewing suggestions.  It's my understanding that relates to that approach being much more familiar, and more relevant to a broader audience.  People already using a Gongfu approach for black teas would have an idea of how to go about that.

I did brew these for much longer than I typically would sheng pu'er or most twisted oolong styles, for around 20 seconds.  It would work well to limit that to 10-15 seconds, but the stronger form would be closer to the results from brewing the tea Western style.  It will help with moving through the initial saturation phase, going slightly longer, and I can adjust timing based on results from each round based on results from the last (all standard stuff, really).

version with more golden tips left

Assam Black Orthodox Tea with Golden Tips:  that's really interesting.  You would expect malt to stand out most in any Assam, and it never really drops out for any version, but in this it's only one part of a broader profile, not dominant at all.  If anything a flavor range similar to sun-dried tomato stands out more, a rich, almost fruity sweetness that includes a bit of umami.  Nothing like that aspect framed in a seaweed or "greener" context in Japanese green teas, but I'm interpreting it as related. 

This isn't so close to any other tea style I've ever tried that I can use that as a clear starting point, not even other orthodox Assam.  One part reminds me more of Jin Jun Mei, that warm, honey-way sweet and rich range.  There's malt too, so that's different from those, but barely present in relation to the typical role that plays in Assam versions.  Cocoa joins those; that's more common with other Chinese black tea range.

It's nice, just a bit shocking to experience so much complexity at first, so removed from any expectations.  There's almost no astringency; it doesn't even have a dry or rough feel, just fullness of body.


Assam Black Orthodox Tea:  presumably this is similar to the other but based on less tippy material, but that may not work to assume that.  It could be from a slightly different local area, made from different plant type sources, and processed differently; I just don't have that information.  Inputs are one thing and experienced results another anyway; in the end the tea speaks for itself.

This does overlap a good bit with the other version, only quite different for all the same aspects balancing differently.  Malt plays a similar but different role in this, or maybe it just comes across differently.  To back up and frame that, when you drink CTC Assam, or even better versions of orthodox Assam, it's typical for a blast of malt--in a very specific form--to define the experience.  Even when it balances well with the rest it still usually stands out as the single dominant aspect.  Not in these.  Related to good versions of Chinese black teas tasting a little malty these are comparable; it's still present.

It's as sweet as the other version, possibly slightly sweeter.  An aspect like sun-dried tomato is also present, that rich, warm, complex range, it's just not as dominant.  Cocoa and bees-wax (which I referenced as common with Jin Jun Mei) is also present, but again not as much.  Since it's just as intense as the other version it's hard to clarify what is filling in for the difference.  An underlying mineral structure may stand out just a little more, or a sweet version of dried wood tone, approaching that of bark spice, but leaving off where dried sticks tend to smell.  Or that could be tied to a version of tree bark, but only a very specific type, not the full, thick bark of mature hardwood, or the lighter, mineral intensive nature of peel-bark trees (aspen or birch), but instead a thin, dark bark common to other ranges of tree types.  Maybe "like sticks" is clearer than all that.

Related to feel this has a different kind of structure, a hint of dryness, but it's not astringent.  Malt in Assam usually seems somehow connected to a dry, structured feel, but these are a good bit softer and fuller than that, or "rounder" if a more vague, graphic comparison helps.

Right out of the gate these are on par with or possibly even better than any other Assam I've ever tried, and I've explored that range a bit.  Usually newer producers go through a "dialing-in" phase while they work out removing obvious flaws, but they're onto the next step already, optimizing results.  I was surprised that Narendra seemed to jump over that step in making Nepalese teas too. 

I think both may have been successful for a common reason; they're really not new to it, at all.  Both sets of producers (farmers, who also produce tea) were probably making pretty good tea before, and did go through some adjustment phase I wasn't in on testing, but were able to rush that process for starting out further ahead.  External input could also be a factor, as in William and Anna's case, drawing on one or more good reference sources.  Anyway, the teas are nice.

Second infusion:

I went fast on this second infusion, around 10 seconds.  That will soften mouth-feel even further, which wasn't necessary, but I'm curious about how the flavors and other aspects work at a light infusion level, around how I prepare a lot of Chinese teas.

Golden tips black (leaves and tips, the tippier version):  more of the same, only slightly lighter; it's not really developing to change.  That sun-dried tomato range umami effect is interesting; that just doesn't come up much in any black teas.  It's pleasant, just really novel.  An optimum infusion level (intensity) for this would be brewed for longer, as I expected.  It's interesting that the tea has reasonable thickness of feel, even brewed lightly; even some aftertaste effect occurs.  That mix of sun-dried tomato rich sweetness, bees wax, and cocoa is quite pleasant, with hardly any malt filling in for balance between an earthy and mineral range, but just a touch.

Someone looking for a blast of malt in this tea would be disappointed; for being more on a Chinese-black style range it works really well.  It's odd saying it but this probably wouldn't be ideal for making masala chai.  It's one of the better Indian black teas I've tried, so that's not really a natural connection anyone would make anyway, considering how simmering this with spices would work out.


Orthodox black (just less tippy):  this does transition, or maybe it's that it comes across much different at a lower infusion intensity, while the other just seemed lighter but with identical aspects.  I get a sense there's something I'm missing in this description, some way of portraying what it's like in a clearer way I've not considered.  It also contains a faint bees-wax aspect, and limited amount of cocoa, and a faint trace of malt, maybe just a little more.  Then there's a wood tone that's different, closer to tree bark or bark spice than fresh or cured hardwood or pine, nothing like those ranges.  It's not like forest-floor either, nothing like autumn leaves, or wetter earthier range.  Maybe leather, that sweet, rich smell from a bomber jacket, leather bound book, or baseball glove.  Framed within the rest of the complex flavors I'm not sure which it's closest to.

The feel has a hint more structure and dryness to it.  You can't really pick it up within the flavor range but it seems like maybe a touch more mineral (warm-toned mineral) is supporting that other mix, and that's why it comes across as complex in a different way, and why the feel character is different.  Or it could just be the malt-tone is different, but it's light enough in these that it's hard to break down.  A stronger infusion will help with identifying that difference.

It's a little known fact that Assamica plant types produce more caffeine than variety Sinensis, one of very few uniform inputs that identify a difference.  The other is that younger leaves and buds contain more caffeine as well; beyond that it just varies by case.  These teas really hitting me reminded me of all that.  For being two infusions in I'm feeling that caffeine.  Maybe some of what people write off as "tea drunk" in young sheng just is that.  Only some; I get it that people are having semi-mystical experiences of different types, not just caffeine buzzed.

Third infusion:

These I brewed for 20 seconds this round, twice as long as the last time.  I'd expect the teas to only produce a half dozen or so infusions using these longer times, or maybe 7 or 8 with stretching out long-brewed late rounds.  They will probably require longer infusion times by round 5 or so to keep up intensity, and will transition in aspects quite a bit by that or the next infusion.  All just guesses; interesting trying to see how teas match my expectations, or don't.

Tippier black:  intensity is back up but only in a normal range; these may be fading just a little already.  It doesn't help using up a lot of time between rounds to write, because in effect I'm letting the tea leaves cool, which cools the water I pour onto them.  Again that sun-dried tomato umami stands out, with the rest of the list as I had described.  It may be edging towards slightly earthier and slightly less sweet.  The cocoa and bees wax may be on the way out, with a mild dark wood tone picking up, closer to the form of the other, but not really the same.


Orthodox black:  the feel of this is quite different; astringency really did ramp up.  It's nowhere near the level of a CTC tea, or maybe even a more standard orthodox black range, but compared to both in the first two rounds it's considerable.  If anything the other tea lightened in character and feel, the opposite.  That stronger edge draws out more of the bees-wax impression, with malt tone picking up quite a bit; now it really is a main aspect, just not yet a dominant one.

The slightly dry feel that is common to Assam tea is more present, the structured feel / body that comes across that way, versus Chinese teas being softer (or often Darjeeling too, for that matter, but those vary a lot, covering many pleasant forms and aspect combinations).  This is probably the only infusion of the six I've tried that would be familiar to people drinking "more bold" and more typical forms of black tea.  Boldness seems to imply some degree of value judgement, and "briskness" overlaps with that a little, relating more exclusively to feel instead of also flavor.  I tend to not use those terms because to me they're not descriptive enough, and try to describe actual flavors and feel aspects instead.  But they could definitely be meaningful; it's a matter of preference of terms and convention.

Fourth infusion:

This might be a good place to leave off given that 8 small cups of tea prepared like this is a lot.  I'd expect that the story of round 5 is about how these transition towards the finish, with how durable they are to produce lots of consistent infusions more relevant than how that final transition sequence plays out.  It is nice when some Dian Hong (Yunnan black, my overall favorite black tea type, or range, as it works out) are still very positive in later round forms, so that stretching out 2 or 3 late rounds is still nice to experience.  You get more experience out of your tea that way.  It's more common for all black tea types to stay positive for a shorter run, to fade to become woody or something such.

Orthodox with golden tips:  this is thinning a little further.  The richness, round feel, thickness, and overall pleasantness is still present but it's fading.  A longer infusion time would bump that next round.  I'd expect that's not how the other version goes, that it's just changing form more, not intensity level so much, based on the last round.


Orthodox black:  it might be fading a little, but not like the other version.  It still has that astringency edge, although this is brewed too lightly for it to feel rough, it just has structure.  The balance isn't quite as positive as it had been, the level of flavor in relation to that feel aspect, and related mineral / malt flavor tones (seemingly related; maybe they have nothing to do with each other, and I'm adding the association).

This is much closer to other forms of orthodox Assam I've tried, as it comes across this round, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Those usually break into two sets of character types, as very intense and malt-heavy, and much thinner and softer and more subtle.  At a guess harvest season timing may have caused that as much as any other input, spring teas (the more intense versions) versus those harvested and produced at other times.  Of course that's just a guess.  Darjeeling second flush is just as intense as first, just different in character, related to picked leaf characteristics and processing differences.  I'm really not familiar enough with Assam "flushes" or harvest seasons to speculate, just mentioning the obvious, as I see it.

It seems like one more slightly stretched timing round would tell a more complete story, and since I'm just buzzed versus blasted on caffeine I might as well go there.

Fifth infusion:

These brewed around a minute, plenty of time to draw out more infusion strength, just maybe a bit much for the second.

Black with more golden tips:  the aspects are a bit more subdued but in the same range as earlier, just leveled off a bit.  It's still very positive, not picking up astringency, heavy mineral tone, or any woody flavors, still just as sweet, mellow, complex, and balanced.  Given how subtle this has become it might only work to run two even longer infusions, since it's staying so positive, with that seventh one pushing it a bit.  I never compared the flavor to honey, but I guess it went without saying that saying it tasted a bit like bees wax overlapped some with that.  This is more like honey than that bees wax now, which is also very pleasant, just subtle.  The sun-dried tomato flavor range dropped out (earlier in the rounds, really), leaving other warm, soft tones, closer to cocoa, but not branching into being woody.

I never did mention that although these two look kind of similar the character of this version is much closer to that of golden tips or buds-heavy tea versions.  That content difference must be right; both the label and corresponding character match can't be wrong.


Orthodox black:  the tapering off of intensity is in a positive place for this version too, with aspect balance a lot closer to the other than I'd have expected.  This has more astringency now, and malt is more pronounced, but the honey sweetness and soft, rich tones aren't as different as they had been.  The feel in this has more structure, at this point, but the other isn't thin, even for becoming lighter, it's just not as thick as it had been.

Conclusions:

This already covered what I thought of the teas; they were really good.  It's tempting to say that they are better than the other two sets of versions of orthodox Assam produced by small co-op producers (Assamica Agro and Assam Teahaus).  It might be the case that I'm just trying a later, more-tweaked version of these teas, that from 2 to 3 years ago when I tried those others the ones made by this same producer wouldn't have been quite as refined.  And those other two producers may have made quality gains since then, and adjusted to make new types; in fact, I'd be surprised if they hadn't.

It's a little odd that all three seem to be on such closely related time-tables.  I don't think any of them were doing anything remotely like this 4 years ago (or maybe it's 5 instead, but I think it's not), and they've covered a lot of similar ground fast.  I like this individual theme, the idea of going back to earlier, traditional forms of tea, versus fusing other production methods along with what was already done.  Optimization of both may follow similar patterns; the outcomes may be more similar than one would expect.

This is only the beginning of this description.  I have one more green tea to try, and I want Jaba to help adjust what I've said to make it more detailed and accurate.  She has also been researching the history of tea in Assam, which can confidently be re-written from the present form based on citing clear and reliable text references.  I'll leave that part as a teaser, and won't share what I've already heard about that.

Jaba is here on a academic conference visit, related to a subject other than tea.  That's interesting to me, how people can bridge experience and strengths from other backgrounds and discipline to inform tea investigation or development.  Of course the tradition she is a part of, was born into, also related quite a bit to agricultural themes, and traditional tea production.  Academic research does open the door to exploring history in a different way, though.  Probably not in any way that made this tea as good as it is, but it's still an interesting sub-theme.

More will follow across those different scopes.

meeting Jaba at Jip Eu, my favorite shop, along with Ralph, from Germany

visiting Wat Pho, a main Bangkok temple

the main ceremony hall Buddha statue there