Vietnamese Ha Giang black tea and Tua Chua sheng

 

This is kind of an unusual tasting theme; Steve from Viet Sun sent some extra samples with my last order and wrote sheng instead of black tea on the Ha Giang version, so I'm comparison tasting across tea types.  I can taste two completely different teas together; it still works.

It can be interesting tasting contrasting teas, to see how it goes, and this makes more sense than it seems in retrospect, related to these teas' styles.  A flavor description or two will drop out doing that, for trying to cover diverse tasting range, and there is no comparison baseline for finer effects, eg. noticing that one has a thicker feel or more aftertaste expression.

Hà Giang Black Spring 2024  ($20 for 100 grams)

This tea was produced from old and ancient trees growing at 1200-1300m in elevation in the Cao Bồ commune area of Hà Giang.

Cao Bồ is about an hour and a half drive from Hà Giang city.

This is a tippy tea harvested with a 1 bud-1-2 leaves standard so you can expect a highly fragrant brew. 

A cocoa and warming spice, honey fragrance emerges after the first rinse. Complex warming spice, honey, malty cocoa flavor with nice minerality. Rich mouthfeel and lingering sweetness in the throat. Nice clear headed and energizing qi effect with a rich, lingering effect in the mouth and throat.

Tủa Chùa Spring 2024  ($53 for 190 gram cake)

A tea from the most sought after gardens in the most sought after tea area in Vietnam, Tủa Chùa in Điện Biên province. This area can be difficult to source tea from due to the high local and international demand but we were lucky enough to get a bit.

This area has some of the biggest tea trees in Vietnam and many are allowed to grow tall. This area is close to Laos and has a different climate than many other tea areas in Vietnam giving teas from here a unique profile. The weather here in spring is typically hot, dry and sunny and this year especially so. It only rained for a couple of days during March and April and the tea output was reduced drastically compared to previous years. This dry weather resulted in a drop in the amount of harvestable leaves but an increase in strength.

This area is known for its signature orchid/ citrus flower fragrance with a citrus, deep forest almost tobacco range of flavor. This tea brews up quickly into a rich golden brew. This tea is very high intensity in every aspect. Medium bitterness and astringency with heavy sweetness. Expect a strong qi and a rich floral huigan that will start to build after a few cups.

Steve had mentioned that tea from this area was especially well-regarded, as this mentions.

Review:

Ha Giang black tea:  flavor includes plenty of cacao initially; that's nice.  It seems there are significant fruit tones too, which will probably develop further, or I suppose could transition away as other aspects enter in.  This early I can't compare it from memory to the other I recently reviewed.  For once I really have used a lower proportion to make getting through 5 or 6 rounds possible (5 or 6 grams instead of 9, maybe); I'll need to brew both for a bit longer next round to compensate, for 20 seconds or more instead of 10 to 15.

Tua Chua:  this does express a good bit of floral range right away.  Another part reminds me of melon.  Bitterness has yet to get started; the whole effect should shift by next round, as intensity really ramps up.

Ha Giang black 2:  malt picked up quite a bit.  I often make a distinction between the dryer, mineral intensive malt found in Assam and the typically sweeter, milder, richer malt tone in malted milk balls, or in some Chinese teas.  This includes both.  Cacao is also pronounced, and an underlying fruit tone comes across, harder to identify now for malt standing out more.  Feel structure is full but not at all rough or challenging.  Aftertaste experience enters in after you swallow.  

For someone seeking out a complex, rich, and mellow black tea this is perfect, a little milder in tone than the 2023 Lao Cai I've been drinking.  Per my personal preference the 2024 Lao Cai is just amazing; it has a bit more astringency edge but complexity and intensity really stand out.  For anyone really into black teas the final choice might be clear enough; buy both.  100 grams isn't that much, so it might be back to decision mode about which to buy 250 grams of instead.

Tua Chua:  really intense floral range enters in; this is perfume-like.  No need to worry about it being too subtle, having problems with intensity standing out in comparison with a flavorful black tea.  For anyone into isolating and describing floral range I'm sure this flavor profile would make for a list, for 3 or more individual aspects.  For me it will have to stand at "complex and intense floral range."

Feel is relatively soft and full, and bitterness is present but limited.  This has good intensity but not that sheng edge, the challenging forms of those.  It is one of the most floral intensive tea experiences I've ever had though, for sure.

Ha Giang #3:  not transitioning so much.  The fruit seems to be emerging more, along the line of dried dark cherry.  It's also a little like the bael fruit tisane that's popular in Thailand, which would be familiar to less people.  Feel structure is still rich and full, but lacking much of an astringency edge.  To me that's as good a thing as it is neutral, but I suppose for drinking this with some foods it could come across a little light.  Cacao is still nice in this, like a bit of dark chocolate edge.

Tua Chua:  intense floral range, again.  Bitterness expression picks up brewing this a little stronger, lending it more of an expected balance for sheng experience.  It's on the opposite side of average bitterness, very light.  For someone who isn't a sheng drinker that would probably still seem moderate, in comparison with oolongs typically including essentially none of that, but in comparison with most young sheng it's hardly there at all.  

This would surely be a great place for people not yet fully adapted to sheng to get started.  The rest of the range would never seem all that sweet or floral in comparison, so it might relate to setting a problematic form of baseline, but it's definitely approachable.  I was going to say all this related to another Vietnamese sheng I've been drinking, but I'll return to that theme in another post.

Ha Giang 4:  for all the more these are transitioning I think I'll end note taking here.  Warm tones pick up.  It's divided between a warm mineral range and other scope that could be harder to place, like a faint edge of coffee, or slight roast input.  It's odd that held off until round 4 to show up.  I brewed this a little long; it seems likely that pushing this tea would change the effect and aspect character, as just happened.  Later round infusions can be different for the earlier flavors dropping out, and a different set entering as you brew teas longer; I suppose that's part of what it is.  

It's no less pleasant, just different.  Brewed stronger to draw out more of that this might work better with food, standing up to a rich breakfast food like a chocolate croissant.

Tua Chua:  sweet, rich, complex, and very floral, kind of the same.  That floral range is so broad that it could be seeming to be extended by tones that are actually fruity instead.  It might taste a little like dried longan.  A warm depth to this also adds to the experience of complexity, rich flavor like a butter cookie.  

I suppose for match to preference it's down to how much one appreciates that range, and relates to the lack of bitterness and astringency edge, here replaced by a depth and fullness.  People more into oolong might love this more than many sheng drinkers, who can actually like that intense bitterness that can define a tea experience positively, in some cases, for some people.  I like softer and flavorful teas, even though through an extensive degree of acclimation I can appreciate a broad range of sheng.  

Sometimes I'll even crave drinking some 10 or 12 year old Xiaguan tuo tea, a full 15 years before it's relatively age-transitioned, and ready to drink per a more conventional preference, which can be a little rough.  That aging transition speed is only true for storage in very hot and humid conditions; in more moderate input storage 30 years would be more appropriate for that general style.

Both of these teas were very nice.  It's kind of nice drinking teas that I really like without being blown away or challenged by placing them.  These are what they are; rich, sweet, complex, and not edgy or challenging at all.  There are no flaws to unpack, and not all that much for limitations, beyond aspects that aren't present, normal astringency range for both types.  

Both brewed a few more really nice rounds, even though I was pushing the leaf harder than usual using longer timing to compensate for a lower proportion.  Neither expressed any remotely negative aspect range through the whole transition cycle.  They're solid.

A family photo sending off a visiting aunt at the airport.  I hate airports and goodbyes, but it's a nice picture of everyone.

Viet Sun Lùng Vài Spring 2022 sheng

 

This is a sample that Steve of Viet Sun sent for me to try (many thanks!).  It's from Lùng Vài, a location described in his related white tea listing as follows, a white tea that I reviewed last year here:

This tea was processed in the Moonlight White style from old and ancient trees in the Lùng Vài, Hà Giang.  Lùng Vài is northeast of Tây Côn Lĩnh mountain, the tallest mountain in Hà Giang province.

I don't know that this sheng (pu'er-style tea) is also from old trees but that's the running theme with a lot of what he sells.  I don't tend to put much weight on that in terms of likelihood of effect on outcome, or any singular causes / claims, and let the tea experience speak for itself.  Wild origin material sheng is often more unique and interesting, and better, and of course risk of pesticide contamination would be lower, but it's still about the brewed tea experience in the end, not the story line.

I've ordered several versions of new sheng listed on the Viet Sun website for spring of 2024; I'll get back to writing about those later.

Review:

#1:  pretty intense for a first round; no need to go through about how this will open up later.  Bitterness stands out, and warm flavors, and depth.  This isn't the bright, sweet, floral and fruity sheng style I've often ran across in the Vietnamese samples, it's much warmer in tone.  To me warm mineral stands out most, the flavor base, but it would also make sense to interpret this as close to wood tone, or related to a range of inputs causing that effect.  For once I'll actually brew this lighter the next round to get a better read on it.

brewed color may not change as much as camera light sensing shifts

#2:  it's a powerful tea, I'll give it that.  This isn't really my favorite style for sheng but it's still easy to appreciate.  Sweetness is ok but not the same as for versions with brighter, lighter flavor tones.  Brewed quite light, more or less a flash infusion, bitterness moderates.  Feel is structured, and aftertaste effect adds depth, so those aren't really limitations.  The warm tone centers on warm mineral, including other range like cedar wood, not so much drifting over to spice or dried fruit.

#3:  it gains some complexity, but the primary flavor range is the same, warm mineral, extending into wood.  It brings up the question of how this would have changed in the two years since it was produced.  That depends on storage conditions, and it's not easy to map character backwards, to say exactly how a tea was based on how it is.  Astringency probably would've been higher, and bitterness even more pronounced.  This isn't one of those "red sheng" versions, more oxidized, sweeter, initially a short step towards black tea.  

To be clear if someone's main preferences center on this style it would be a really good tea version.  It's clean, complex, and intense; nothing really seems like a flaw.  It's nowhere near as harsh as standard "factory tea," which would typically be much less whole in leaf form.  It just lacks the brighter tones I tend to prefer.  

#4:  the balance of earlier flavors shifts some but it's similar enough that there isn't a lot to say about that.  Cedar like wood tone stands out as much as the mineral base now; that picked up.  

#5:  to me this improves as the character softens.  I'm not noticing much for interesting transition; it's in the same range.  

I gave the 6th infusion a little more time and the fruit / apricot range had started to emerge (a flavor reference to checking the archived product listing and description after the 5th round, in the following Conclusion section).  The balance was better than before, a good sign.  The 7th hadn't changed much more, but it wasn't less pleasant than any before, really hanging in there.  Sweetness may have came across even more, related to the heavier mineral and woody tones easing up.

Conclusion:

This felt a bit unsatisfying as reviews go.  The character had positive traits but I had trouble relating to the aspects, really related to preference issues.  It's not a favorite style for me, even though it's clearly pretty good tea.  

Then that makes me curious, how was this represented in the earlier website listing?  How was it described, and what was the pricing?  I looked that up in the Internet Archive Wayback Machine, since it's not listed now:

Lùng Vài is located on the eastern side of Tây Côn Lĩnh mountain, the tallest mountain in Hà Giang province. This tea makes for a very interesting comparison to the high alpine fragrance teas of Thượng Sơn which is located on the western face of Tây Côn Lĩnh mountain.

This tea features a warming, honey-apricot flavor with herbal, nutty undertones. Brews up into a thick dark golden soup with light-medium bitterness and astringency. Nice huigan and focused qi for me.

Season: Spring 2022

Picking Standard: 1 bud, 2-3 leaves

Region: Lùng Vài, Phương Độ, Hà Giang

Elevation: 1000m-1100m

It lists for $48 but without a weight for the cake that doesn't mean anything.  I'd guess that this was a 200 gram cake priced on the costlier side related to what they sell, versus a 357 gram cake that was inexpensive, but it could have been either.  Hà Giang is their main tea production region for this range, per my understanding, so the theme of a local reseller getting deals on less conventional versions probably wouldn't apply to this, and it probably sold for an above average price from the producer.

Was it "honey apricot, herbal, and nutty?"  Maybe.  The flavors would've shifted some over 2 years so it shouldn't be identical to that description, it's just an interesting reference to consider.  Often teas will soften, gain depth, lose initial freshness, and trade out some brighter intense tones for warmer and deeper aspects, retaining most of the same flavors in a different form.  Over two years in a cool and dry location sheng doesn't change so much; in hot and humid storage a version really will.

I've avoided mentioning aging potential here.  I really don't know how this would change in two more years, or 15 more.  There's a relatively narrow profile for factory teas that seems to relate to one type of aging potential but these old plant, wild origin teas are something else.  Versions that are atypical for being oxidized a bit more probably still have good potential for very moderate further transition, over 2 or 3 more years, but not for the full 15 or 20 year cycle.  For this I don't know.

Steve Shafer on Vietnamese wild-origin teas

all photos but finished tea imaged credit Steve's FB page

The following is a series of questions and answers about Vietnamese teas, about variations in types, especially wild-origin sheng, and all sorts of related background issues with Steve Shafer of Viet Sun. 

For people who are touchy about how the pu'er / puerh designation is used outside of Yunnan, the regional type designation theme, I think it works here that his first reference is to "raw puerh style" tea, versus just calling it pu'er, and then he doesn't awkwardly keep repeating that long version.  I tend to include a similar designation statement in every related post, and then just call it sheng afterwards; there has to be some practical work-around.

Can you describe what high quality tea production looks like in Vietnam, related to the most interesting styles produced and general demand?

My experience is mostly with the old tree “wild-origin” type teas so I will comment mostly on that. For raw puerh style would be good raw material selection, wok processing compared to kill-green machine processing, single day sun-drying on bamboo mats compared to tarp drying, clean factory conditions. Factory design in these areas can be similar to what you would find in Yunnan and the other bordering countries.  

The most famous green tea in Vietnam is made in Thái Nguyên. Some people still use woks and make tea from older, seed-grown tea trees there.

 

What are your personal favorites?

I’m a raw puerh lover at heart so that makes up most of what I drink on a day to day basis. I’d say my favorite areas for Vietnamese raw puerh are Tủa Chùa, Sùng Đô, Háng Đồng and Lào Cai. I also really enjoy teas of all styles made from those wild purple varietal trees. They tend to be easy drinking, gentle on the body and have interesting physical and mental effects for me. 

What channels are selling the best teas in Vietnam now, which forms like dedicated website portals, Facebook groups, shops, etc.? 

Many tea producers are on Facebook and it’s quite common for customers to contact them directly to buy tea. There are many tea shops in major cities like Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh but it seems like only a few have success selling tea in-person to customers. Many physical tea shops have an online presence through a website and/ or social media channels which is where I’d bet most of the sales are taking place for them. 

What is next for even better tea production to develop in Vietnam?

A major factor driving this is demand. With higher demand for these good teas, more producers will focus their efforts on making them. Knowledge will be shared and the overall average quality of tea in a given area should rise. One of the most important factors in wild-origin tea production is raw material quality. Many of these tea tree areas have unsustainable management practices and a decreasing quality of raw material. With a higher demand for quality should bring about more farmers implementing more sustainable tea area management practices. The government might eventually get involved in offering protection and implementation of these more sustainable management practices as well.

If someone had already tried pretty good rolled oolong, fishhook style green tea, and sheng from Vietnam what would be next for them to explore?  New regions, even better versions, or something else?

Trying teas from other terroirs in those styles you have enjoyed and from other reputable vendors could be a good next step. Some of the classics for me would be Tủa Chùa/ Sùng Đô raw puerh, Tà Xùa green, Suối Giàng silver needle white, Hoàng Su Phì black, Cao Bồ ripe puerh. Those wild purple varietal teas from Lai Châu province can also be great but try your best to buy from vendors with sustainable tea making practices. 

Based on my experience lots of Vietnamese sheng is oxidized a little more than for mainstream Yunnan style, but in plenty of cases this can be exceptional, if drank as young tea.  Do you feel that this impacts aging potential?  Is it something that you think producers should correct for, or does it work matched with some material type, or as a local style variation?

Yes, that is quite common here. One of the biggest factors resulting in those higher oxidation teas is weather. The spring and autumn tea seasons are quite foggy/ rainy in many tea areas. Some teas could have been under withered and/ or have had a slow multi-day sun-drying stage. These two factors can both result in a higher oxidation and “reddened” tea. Another factor that results in those higher oxidation teas is lack of a good processing schedule. Some producers do not follow processing schedules conducive to making good tea. Some could be left too long after kill green/ rolling before drying, dried in a thick layer on nylon tarps etc… Weather is something we cannot change but having a good processing schedule is something we can! 

Those unintentional higher oxidation teas are very common but there are also some pleasant intentionally oxidized teas being produced. I’ve seen producers do everything that a typical high-quality raw puerh processing schedule would include but extend the time after rolling by a few hours. I’ve also seen some people dry the leaves about halfway, keep them overnight inside the factory, and then dry them in a thicker layer the following morning. 

For aging potential, I think these styles of teas are better young than aged. The oldest raw puerh in this style that I’ve tried was 5 years old and it was already almost like a black or long aged white tea. The balance of bitterness/ astringency/ sweetness was off for me but it would be interesting to see how these teas develop over longer periods of aging. These “reddened” teas could be suitable for people new to raw puerh and/or anyone looking for a more gentle, easier drinking raw puerh experience as the bitterness and astringency are reduced significantly.

Is development and increase in incomes in Vietnam proportional to awareness and demand expansion of better teas?

I think so. The economy is growing rapidly and there is a rising middle class. It seems like many people have more disposable income than before and are taking up hobbies. Healthy/ green activities are becoming more mainstream and high quality tea easily falls into that. There are new tea shops opening frequently in bigger cities like Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh. 

Are mainstream forms of better versions of teas expanding in any way?  Is there anything like a Vietnamese Dayi or Xiaguan, or a comparable large high quality tea production, marketing, and sales, across any main tea type (black, green, per region, etc.)?

A couple of larger scale companies have been around for a while and are popular in the country. Shanam, Bash Tea, Tân Cương Xanh and Trà Việt come to mind. Shanam and Bash Tea focus on wild-origin teas, Tân Cương Xanh focus on Thái Nguyên green tea and Trà Việt on a bit of everything.

Can you say a little about terroir differences in Vietnamese wild origin tea in relation to Laos or Yunnan tea?  It’s an impossibly broad theme, and one that mixes with too many other process related factors, but an example or two of how you see it would still be interesting.

I haven’t been to enough places in Yunnan and Laos to give you concrete answers but generally the weather in the tea areas in Vietnam is warmer and more humid than areas in Yunnan. Many tea areas here have foggy, humid, misty weather many months out of the year. There are more plants/ mosses/ lichens growing on and around the tea trees in Vietnam compared to Yunnan. The elevations of good tea areas in Vietnam are lower on average than the ones in Yunnan. This could result in different soil compositions/ quality?  But you’d have to ask someone with more experience than me about that. 

Can you add a little on the difference between a general wild origin “good material” theme and final prepared tea aspects varying?

In raw puerh, raw material really is king. I’ve had teas made from great raw material and rough processing that still ended up being pretty great. On the other hand I’ve had tea made from average/ lower quality raw material that was processed well and resulted in just mediocre tea. The “taste of the mountain” shines through unless the processing is really off. 

I’ve tried Thai wild origin material tea that was quite good, distinctive in different ways for different versions, but one example was unusually sour.  Is this familiar as a plant-type related input?  Of course it could also relate to a processing flaw, but it seems like an unusual flavor range approaching sourness from some purple teas isn’t completely unrelated.

Sourness is a common note in many of those wild non-Sinensis varietal teas here. That sourness can manifest as an unripe fruit, tamarind like note in certain tea styles that I really enjoy if it balances well with the other flavors. I’ve also had sourness Assamica black/ white/ puerh tea but that was due to processing issues. 

Can you say a little about purple plant type tea?

Purple tea seems to have a couple different meanings. One could be Sinensis/ Assamica tea trees that have purple leaves due to genetic defects, the other being non-Sinensis varietals.  I’ve seen the occasional Assamica tree with some purple leaves. I’ve never tried a tea made exclusively from those trees and I think it would be hard to get enough raw material to make much tea at all due to the scarcity of those trees. 

Vietnam has many varietals of those non-Sinensis tea trees growing at 1800-2500m+ in elevation. Many of these trees have purple/ red/ orange/ yellow-green leaves with different leaf shapes compared to the typical Assamica. All of those varietals could be lumped into the “purple tea” category. I really enjoy teas made from these types of trees as they are easy drinking (gentle, fragrant, sweet, low bitterness/ astringency) when produced as any style of tea. Many have a thick mouthfeel, lasting huigan and strong body effects for me.

An Assamica based oolong I’ve tried from Viet Sun was quite pleasant.  Can you add background about that tea type, if it’s prepared in a similar way as a Chinese or Taiwanese type, and how the Assamica plant type input varies?

Sure, that was made in Hoàng Su Phì, Hà Giang province. That area is high on fragrance and sweetness and lower on bitterness/ astringency. The processing combines elements of raw puerh, oolong and black tea processing. It undergoes a long withering, shaking, medium-oxidation, wok kill-green, rolling, sun-drying and roasting. It is a loose leaf style so would be comparable to a strip-style oolong but the raw material input makes it look more like a loose-leaf raw puerh. The tea maker who makes our tea recommends aging it for at least a year. He mentions that the aging period really helps settle it down and become more balanced. Seems like it can be difficult to make that raw material work as an oolong. 

A Western-facing outlet like Hatvala has built up better Vietnamese tea awareness over a number of years.  Do you feel that Viet Sun customers are generally coming from that prior exposure, or is it more that people learn of better Vietnamese tea more than continue earlier demand for it?

We have a handful of customers who have tried Hatvala teas, enjoyed them and wanted to explore other options from Vietnam. Many of our customers have never heard about (or at least anything good about) Vietnamese tea but have found out about us through word of mouth or social media/ chat forums. It seems like a good percentage of our customers are Yunnan tea enthusiasts and with our catalog being “puerh” heavy,  it makes sense that they might be more willing to try teas from vendors like us. 

Are you being contacted by Western (US or European) shops about them carrying Vietnamese teas, or are your customers only tea enthusiasts making direct purchases?

Yes, we wholesale to a handful of businesses in the US, Canada and Europe as well as International retail. 

Thoughts on this discussion

Really the point here was to share Steve's input, to allow readers to access some of the types of ideas I sometimes run across in talking to vendors or producers.  I wanted to add just a little on how I took these ideas though.

The last two questions about development of tea awareness and demand in Vietnam related to my curiosity about trends tending to come and go in tea circles, to versions from Nepal or Georgia becoming popular, and known for quality and good character, for example.  To me Vietnam is sort of a different case because plenty of range of tea has been produced there for a long time, and quality levels have certainly been mixed, but they didn't just start producing good versions recently.  Maybe some are more consistent and better recently, but I've tried great Vietnamese tea versions for years, and it was always odd that the word didn't get out faster.  

For living in Thailand I probably shouldn't add that Vietnamese teas at the higher end have been more diverse and just better than from Thailand for years, but at least the best Thai versions are now catching up and holding their own.  There were rare exceptions before, and sheng has previously been inconsistent from both countries.

I was wondering to what extent that awareness and demand shift is happening now, and Steve covered a few points that relate to that.  Hopefully it ramps up fast enough for Steve's business to do well, for him to keep offering interesting and pleasant teas, but maybe not fast enough to outpace production, so pricing stays as favorable as it currently is.

Sort of related, the two versions I bought recently I love more and more as I keep drinking them (a black tea and sheng).  Sometimes you can try something exceptional and it's the novelty that carries the experience, something like quality level markers showing through, and other times you can relate to more basic teas even better, because they match what you like, and the limitations mean little in relation to the positive aspects or overall impression.  The best case is when good teas click for you, not necessarily those matching a standard type the best, or showing off quality through the most rare or refined aspects, but just good, pleasant versions.  Those you can enjoy over and over.  

Dian Hong often tends to be like that for me, and to me that black tea seems related to that character range.  Slightly atypical versions of sheng, related to Yunnan character range, can relate to different terroir input, or to processing variations.  In some cases the balance seems off, and in others novel flavors and extra complexity really comes together.  For me the Sơn La version balance really worked.

The rest of what Steve said covers ideas that are familiar; we have discussed similar things, or they've come up talking to other friends in Vietnam.  His input expressed a lot of range clearly and concisely, extending what I've heard before.  The parts about concerns related to sustainability, sourness in atypical plant type versions, on purple teas, and on typical regional aspect character were particularly interesting to me.  It was great that Steve was open to discussing other source options as much as he did, to help place where the whole market stands; vendors usually aren't like that.

Many thanks to Steve for sharing these ideas!

this sheng brewed color matches part of the story told here

Vietnamese oolong and fishhook style green tea

 

I'm trying out a couple more samples from Viet Sun, sent along with ordering a really nice sheng and black tea not long ago.  They sent a second "forest origin" type of green tea, which would make a lot more sense to compare with the fishhook / standard Thai Nguyen version range, but this sounds good to me, comparing oolong and green tea experience.  

In general it's better to comparison taste as similar teas as you can, not mixing styles or character, because you'll notice more fine differences instead of just that you are trying two types at once.  I've been through it lots of times though; it gets easier to sort out with exposure.

I'll brew these using water not so far off boiling, maybe 90 C.  I've measured output temperature from a filtration system that also heats water at our house before, but I don't remember that outcome.  It's too hot for Western brewing approach optimum for green tea, per most people's opinion, but it's normal in Vietnam to use hot water to brew green tea, and to be ok with the stronger flavor profile and additional astringency that results.  I can cool a round and check the difference [or switch to using cooler water across all the rounds, as it turned out, because that tea is really intense].

Related to the Viet Sun black tea and sheng I've been drinking, from Lao Cai and Song La, respectively, I like them more and more as I keep drinking them.  It's possible for a novel, complex, and refined good tea version to really stand out when you first try it and then for you to not feel as much connection over time, as you keep drinking it.  Sometimes even more basic versions can match what you really like, and can seem better to drink more of.  Those teas are pretty good initially, and they also seem well-suited for drinking regularly, which of course relates to my own preference, not some aspects or form of balance that one wouldn't tire of.

The oolong I have no clear expectations of; that makes it more interesting.  If the fishhook style green is a good version of a style I've drank a number of examples of that should be good.  Those tend to be floral and also vegetal, but not necessarily grassy, intense in character with heavy flavors, and a pronounced mineral base.  It's that "heavy flavors" part that makes them seem distinct from other green tea range, which I typically like.

Per usual I'll add more of Viet Sun's description after I try these and make tasting notes.  There was no listing for the "Thai Nguyen Fish Hook Green, Autumn 23;" it's either not there yet or already sold out, or maybe never will be listed.

Sunset Oolong, Autumn 22 (edited slightly; the listing is long.  It sells for $35 for 100 grams).

A strip style oolong produced from old/ ancient Shan Assamica varietal trees growing in the Hoàng Su Phì area of Hà Giang in Autumn of 2022.

This is a unique tea. Assamica oolongs are typically much harsher than their Sinensis counterparts so processing and storage play a major role in the production of this tea. If you've tried the 2020 version of this tea you'll surely notice how different the 2022 version looks and tastes. 

The producer decided to go with a lighter oxidation and drying temperature in order to preserve more of the natural essence of this tea. They also mentioned that they think that this lighter overall processing method requires less of a storage period before the tea starts to come into its prime. 

The flavor is complex. I pick up notes of savory warming spices with a peppery floral fragrance and a bit of green freshness. There are notes of medium oxidized oolong, Oriental Beauty and Dian Hong. Thick sweetness with a medium-thick body depending on how strong you brew it. It has this softening effect that spreads and finishes with a bit of a tannic bite.

I like brewing it at 90-100 degrees for shorter and then longer steeps.

Season: Autumn 2022

Picking Standard: 1 bud, 2-3 leaves

Region: Hoàng Su Phì, Hà Giang

Elevation: 1200m

All of that aspect description works; I won't comment on it further later on here.  I did already compare this to Oriental Beauty in notes.  

Variety Assamica oolongs tend to just be bad, not only a little more harsh, but that's probably related to many examples being experimental, and producers needing time to adjust processing inputs to get it to work.  I might've tried two that were good, both from Vietnam, and more decent Indian versions that seemed nothing like oolong, which is something else.  Of course until I had tried those I considered whether the plant type range might just not be suitable for that processing approach, if typical leaf compounds didn't match up, but it's not that, it's about not getting them right.

Review:

Sunset Oolong:  that's so nice!  It's a little too light still, normal for how I usually prepare a first round, but there's a really pleasant sweetness and flavor profile.  There's a lot going on; it might taste a bit like fruit cake, that mix of warm, rich flavors, including a bit of spice, along with brighter and complex mixed dried fruit.  I'll have more luck with a flavor list next round though.

Thai Nguyen Fish Hook Green:  the umami level is insane in this.  I can compensate for brewing two kinds of tea by flash brewing this version from here on out.  It might work to add a touch of cold water to this too, to try brewing it at a more conventional 70 - 75 C range early on (roughly; I don't weigh or measure anything), before cooking it for too many rounds.  Vegetal range is heavy, and intense, not so far off kale.  That must sound rougher than this comes across, and adjusting outcome by brewing it using cooler water and faster infusion times would change a lot, or backing off proportion.  I don't want that to sound like I'm describing brewing around flaws though; this is more or less how it should be.

If anything this is a much better quality version than I'm accustomed to.  You can see that in the finer leaf form, which helps with cranking up intensity, and it's clear in the flavor outcome too.  It's vegetal though; it wouldn't be for everyone.  Kale is joined by spinach and celery; it's really vegetal.  The strong mineral base is nice, and sweetness is good, helping the rest balance.  Probably by altering brewing approach you could get more floral range out of it, and just brewing intensity lighter would shift to an experience of lighter flavor range.  But it is what it is too; someone not into vegetal green teas shouldn't be drinking this.  

In other versions that mineral range can dominate more, not as a base for other flavors, but as a primary input, which wouldn't necessarily be ideal for people looking for more of a black tea or oolong oriented experience, but it balances differently.  It lingers so long in aftertaste for this version that I'll need to drink a good bit of water between rounds to get it to clear.  I've tried white teas that taste like less than the plain water I drank to clear that aftertaste; a nice sweet flavor aftertaste keeps going, and doesn't clear out fast. 

It's my understanding that people in Vietnam value that high intensity and somewhat harsh feel in green tea experience, that over time they come to like being blasted by it.  As a sheng drinker I get it; it's never enough until it's a little too much.

Sunset oolong, 2:  it's interesting how the first thing you notice drinking this is a "man that's good!" reaction.  The sum is greater than the parts; none of the aspects add up to account for how pleasant it comes across.  I think feel might be part of that, that there's a richness to it, a way that it coats your whole mouth, that adds depth far beyond the flavor.  It's sweet and rich in flavor too, but not necessarily that complex or intense.  In terms of a list of all the flavors probably adding together it's probably very complex, but those are all subtle enough that it seems simple when you taste it.  Let's get to that list.

Sweetness includes a warmth like a honey range, or maybe that's light caramel instead.  There is fruit but it's so non-distinct there's no way to list out what it probably includes; maybe some dried fruit range, could be something like cooked pear (included here as a guess to point towards a range, more than a description).  Warmth seems to also include a spice tone, and a rich and deep underlying feel is more similar to sassafras (like one part of root beer), or if that's not familiar leaning a little towards yam.

I bet if I kept drinking this tea I'd change my mind about that whole list, and describe it in completely different terms.  That part is interesting, how an overall pleasant effect is clear but what is going into creating that is not.

Thai Nguyen fishhook green:  I brewed this quite light, mixing in cold water and brewing it fast.  I didn't want to err on the side of saying I should've went further with that adjustment.  Character is completely different, of course.  Floral range does ramp up; it's probably more dominant than the vegetal range.  Or maybe this is really a mix of light and subtle floral tones and completely different vegetal range, like sugar-snap peas (mostly that flavor in particular; not just like that).  Sweetness dominates the basic taste effect, the context, where mineral and heavier range had before.  There is still some umami in this, plenty of it, but nothing like the earlier level, or the earlier effect from that.  Not so many teas are capable of shifting character this much related to brewing approach differences.

So in the end it's sweet, light, bright, including plenty of floral tones, and light and sweet sugar snap pea vegetable.  Mineral base still grounds it but in nothing like the earlier form or intensity.  If this green tea version hadn't been off the scale in intensity using a hot water and quick brewing approach would've been more practical and appropriate.  These really fine leaves seem to extract lots and lots of flavor very quickly, with limited need for exposure to heat to push that along.  I'll try it brewed slightly hotter and longer next round and see what it's like more in the middle, but not back at that "just off boiling point" temperature level, still a bit cooler.

Sunset oolong 3:  the one sweet and rich range seems to be what is making this so appealing, somewhere along the lines of caramel or molasses.  You could push this tea much harder; maybe next time I'll let it brew for over 20 seconds to see what that changes.  Then it's odd how the intensity of the other requires being careful about that, limiting it to a range that's still approachable, without someone acclimating to super strong tea instead, and just going for it.  

The fruit seems to include an apricot note; it could be that a catchy form of fruit is another part of what makes this so nice.  It's quite subtle at the same time, which is interesting, how an overall impression is different than how the individual aspects seem.

Thai Nguyen Fishhook green:  that balance is ok, embracing it being more intense, including heavier flavors, and strong underlying mineral tone, but still also including the light, sweet, and fresh range.  To be clear I really don't like grassy green teas, and green tea is my least favorite broad category (besides something like flavored teas; those don't count in the same way, and some can be ok).  

I like this more than I would expect to based on the flavor range, or that would be true if I hadn't experienced that with fishhook style green teas a few times in the past.  The mineral base and savory range, the umami, give it an interesting balance and overall effect.  Some Japanese green teas work out like that, and an aspect range I typically don't like so much really works.  For them that seems to tie directly to quality too, so that if I'm thinking of heavy umami and seaweed flavor teas I don't like that's more about cheaper and rougher versions where it doesn't all tie together as well.

Oolong 4:  I don't think I have the patience today for 6 or 7 rounds of tasting, for describing how these keep evolving.  It's mid-afternoon and I've not had lunch yet, which is going to be a single meal covering lunch and dinner for running so late.  This will do.

It's hard to place this in relation to other oolong styles, to say what it reminds me of.  It's quite oxidized, so maybe along the lines of a "red oolong," which I guess relates to Dong Ding as much as any other more established origin range or style.  It's just its own thing though.  Pretty much always when you try a one-off style and material input version positive aspects can come up but overall balance is missing something, and it doesn't connect and work perfectly, feel might not be ok, aspect range might not integrate, or it can seem unrefined, etc.  But this is good.  This really should include an extra flaw or two that it doesn't, or at least some aspect gap or imbalance.  They did well.

More aspects and description would come up in a more detailed single version review that pushed the tea harder, bumping infusion time, using full boiling point water, dialing in an optimum timing.  I bet with more of that comparison with Oriental Beauty style would make more sense, the way honey sweetness, dried fruit, and spice combine in those.  I think that's not occurring to me here as much because it's like that but the comparable range isn't directly one for one.  The spice tone and fruit are similar but different.  This might be closest to an Oriental Beauty version where they've not pushed the oxidation level all the way to the edge of typical black tea range, or into it, as tends to come up.

Fishhook green:  the balance is nice in this, the way heavy umami stands out, with good sweetness mineral base not far beyond that.  It's still more vegetal than floral, but using slightly cooler water and a lighter infusion strength pulls that way back from the heavy kale, spinach, and celery range.  Anyone entirely opposed to drinking vegetal green tea would still hate this, but it's well balanced.  This version is much closer to typical Japanese green tea range than any fishhook style green tea I've tried before.  For me that being good or bad depends on the final aspect balance, with quality level tied to that, and to me this works well.

To be clear on that context I wouldn't buy a tea like this, or any Japanese green teas; I love sheng pu'er most, then a limited range of black teas, then oolongs, which come in a broad range, then maybe interesting white tea versions after that.  Shu pu'er can be ok, and hei cha can be interesting, but maybe it makes sense to just leave them off the list.  I can appreciate what this green tea is, and how good it is, but that range just isn't a close match to what I like most in tea experience, or next most, and so on.  This oolong version I could probably drink 500 grams of and probably not get tired of it, but buying their Son La sheng and Lao Cai black tea instead was a better choice for me; those are closer matches to what I like most.

For someone exploring novel and interesting tea range, earlier in a sorting out process, this green tea could take on a different meaning.  You could cover related range trying Japanese green teas, but they wouldn't be quite as novel, for fitting into a paradigm slightly better.  That's only true in general; at higher quality levels things tend to shift a bit, and range of novelty and higher potential opens up, but you'd need to be open to a higher level of spending to experience that in Japanese teas.

It's generally bad form to mention alternative sources in a review post but let's go there.  I think Trident Cafe and Booksellers would be a great source for way above average green teas at very fair prices.  They list some really interesting Japanese green teas, and versions from other places, all starting at $10 per ounce (28 grams).  That's actually a pretty good price for teas in that high demand at that quality level.  I was going to compare that to this tea's listing on the Viet Sun site, but it's not there (sold out for now?).  Anyway, the other forest green tea listed, the only green tea, they sell for $7 for 25 grams, or $22 for 100 (or $51 for 250; you get a great deal at volume, but only if you know you like the tea, since having a lot that you don't like isn't helpful).  Trident's sales isn't set up like that; you keep paying $10 for 28 more grams, which I think is still fair, but it's up to $40 for 112 grams.  It probably should be more, for what they sell.

The general point here, which might already be clear, is that if you can find very interesting and higher quality tea versions from lower demand areas sometimes you can get amazing values for that tea.  Not always; some boutique Indian outlets sell the best of the best versions from there for full Western boutique outlet market rates, up around the 40 cents a gram level, which I guess still makes sense.  There's very little of that highest end Indian tea demanded or made, so however that balances out is what it is.

This oolong is something else, seemingly a one-off.  Teas like that cost whatever they happen to be sold for, and there's no market rate to go by.  $35 for 100 grams is fair in relation to what other remotely comparable quality and aspect range teas would sell for, and probably Oriental Beauty versions roughly as good and somewhat similar in style would tend to cost even more, but nothing else would seem exactly like it.

Vietnamese and Assam green teas comparison

in the same order, with more details following

I'm getting behind on trying samples.  Vendors and friends passing them on is much appreciated, but two reviews a week doesn't keep up, even for doing combined tasting.  I'll try a green tea version that a friend visiting from Assam passed on, Jaba Borgohain, and green tea versions from Somnuc Anousinh, that Laos friend who gets out to lots of local SE Asian countries to try remote-produced teas.  One of these he even made, on a visit to a farm in Vietnam, if I've got that part right.

Oddly neither of those friends is actually a tea vendor.  Jaba more or less helps represent the Assam tea industry in the form of researching and discussing issues.  That's a really informal and undefined role, as I understand it, as much an unusual expression of interest as an actual role.  Somnuc owns a small coffee and tea shop (partly owns, at least) but the travel and tea buying is mostly a hobby interest.  He probably sells some of what he turns up; it would be easy to grab an extra few kilos here and there and have resale income offset that travel expense.  But for both it's a labor of love, not a business or significant revenue stream.  That's interesting commonality to share, since I'm not getting paid to write this either, beyond the tea samples coming my way for review.

I just met Somnuc here to pass on some teas in exchange

I keep saying that green tea is my least favorite broad type; that's interesting background.  These will be unconventional, I'd expect, so it won't be a matter of checking a known type against an expected profile, or quality level markers and expectation.  I've only heard about the Assam version, from another mutual friend, who said that he liked the Assam black teas Jaba passed on better.  Those were really good; it can be hard placing them.  They were probably as good or slightly better than any Assam I've yet to try.  Then again I'd expect the other Assam sources I've reviewed have moved on from producing teas at the same level I tried more of a couple of years ago when I was more on that page.

Onto review then.  As to methodology I'll Gongfu brew these, even though they would turn out as well or maybe even better brewed Western style.  It's just more familiar at this point.  For most better teas, of any types, Gongfu brewing lets you experience more of the transition, it just separates out distinct flavors and other aspect character that emerges across more rounds.  I say "maybe better" because in some cases mixing those together--in Western brewing form--is more positive.  I'll use relatively cooler water temperature, standard for green tea brewing process.

I'll back off the proportion a little (closer to the 1 gram / 15 ml range than towards 10, but I don't weigh tea), and lengthen time to compensate.  I get it why people do control prepared weight versus volume better, and why some would see an approach that's slightly less controlled as invalid.  I see this as relating to a difference between engineering and science research perspectives (I'm an industrial engineer, not that it really matters).

Scientists conduct careful research; they control factors as much as possible, analyzing one variable at a time, documenting everything.  Engineers make things work.  Eventually that has to pair with a clear description of what worked, and why (unless you work in a IT scope, as I sort of do now, and then it just depends), but messing around and trying things out is valid.  Per my past experience with defense systems manufacturing the people who actually build things want to hear as little as possible from design and "assembly methods" engineers, and get on with the work, with QC review making sure they did follow the right parameters to get to exactly the right outcome.

Review:

In order described, L to R; the first a good bit redder

Vi Xuyen Green (from Somnuc):  I actually found three different samples of green tea from Somnuc; there's a chance this tea is from an earlier set, which would make it a year and a half old.  Another labeled as "Xin Green" may be an early version of the unlabeled tea Somnuc described as making himself (the next one).  This is from the far north, as Wikipedia describes:

Vị Xuyên is a rural district of Hà Giang Province in the Northeast region of Vietnam. As of 2003 the district had a population of 87,164.[1] The district covers an area of 1,452 km². The district capital lies at Vị Xuyên.

I say it might be an old sample in part from noticing that this tea is oxidized; the color indicates that.  Green tea can darken after being produced, it just oxidizes quickly via a slightly different process when leaves are fresh.  In processing related oxidation enzymes in fresh leaves contact air, although without a bruising step the teas can still oxidize.  These enzymes are deactivated by a heating step, or can be partially deactivated by drying, as occurs for white tea processing.  It'll be interesting even if it is slightly aged green tea, which is a subject that doesn't come up much.  Green, white, and sheng styles can mix a bit in rural Vietnam processing; teas can vary (which I'll stop short of saying more about, since this is already a tangent within a tangent).

It's quite nice; so much for not liking green tea.  It's soft, rich, sweet, and floral.  Really floral; at a guess that's close to lotus flower character, quite sweet, but not intensely sweet like jasmine (but towards that, just a bit richer).  It's the grassiness that I dislike in green teas, or tasting like green beans and bell pepper, or spinach, and this is nothing like that.  The feel is even a bit rich; this really works.  At a guess they did let this oxidize a little, and that part added in during processing, not after.  It could relate to just not heating it fast, or it being hot out when they harvested it, or to pickers bruising some of the leaves as the pluck them; producers say different things about how all that goes, how it's complicated.


Vietnamese tea Somnuc produced, from Yen Bai province:  Somnuc did pass on the origin for this tea, but it's not as if you could go out and find this tea version again, even if you happened to live there.  For all I know this could be a very standard local type, and it would be as easy to find as visiting the local market, or maybe this version range varies by individual location, plant type, growing conditions, and processing steps so much that you just couldn't.

That's really vegetal, with a pronounced astringency edge.  It looks a lot lighter for being yellow instead of slightly reddish but it's stronger.  The liquid isn't completely clear; not cloudy enough that I'm worried about it but that's not a great sign.  For someone who loves green tea character this would be ok.  It tastes like a mix of vegetables, with more green bell pepper than anything, but a bit of mix beyond that.  Some floral range and warm mineral range give it a decent balance (odd how that's not an obvious match for the rest; lighter mineral would typically pair with that).  This feel is a bit thick as green teas go too, and sweetness level works.

It's not as if I hate green tea tasting like vegetables, I'd just prefer the floral range, or whatever else.  It's actually pretty good though, for being in that type and style.  It could be slightly cleaner in effect--related to a plant-stem type of astringency--but it's much better than inexpensive, random commercial green teas tend to ever be.


Oiirabot Assam Green Orthodox Tea with Silver Tips:  cool this tea has a producer, type, and brand name.  Ralph, that other friend who met Jaba, who has recently started his own tea blog (here), agreed that the dried tea smell is amazing (so much rich fruit, covering grape, raisin, and citrus), but just couldn't get brewed version results out of it on that level.  This is slightly cloudy too; what's up with these teas not being clearer?  It's the least intense of the three, especially after trying the last one, which packed a punch.

meeting Jaba and Ralph at that same Bangkok Chinatown shop, Jip Eu

It's not bad; that fruit does come across.  It's not great either; the promise in the dry scent doesn't translate over.  It's nice that there is some light grape, raisin, and citrus, that some of it does, but typical vegetal range joins that, and it's all on the subtle side, mixed together.  A bit of astringency joins that, closer to tree branch bud than flower stem, but it's at a level that works.  It's not bad, just not as exceptional as the first version.  All of these might change a little over the next two rounds though; it's a little early for final verdicts.

Second infusion:

still a little light, still a touch cloudy for 2 and 3

Vi Xuyen Ha Giang Vietnamese green:  dang this is good green tea.  It surely wouldn't work for everyone to let green tea oxidize a little to improve it, but whatever led to this character worked.  It's sweet and creamy, with really pronounced floral tone shifting a little towards fruit.  Given that softness and creaminess it's a bit towards creamsicle, even the flavor.  The texture is great, the balance is good, even an aftertaste experience adds depth.  There's no astringency edge, no green wood, plant stem, tree bud tip, none of all that.  I suppose if someone liked that sort of edge in a green tea that could potentially be seen as a flaw, but to me this is great.  A touch of warm mineral gives it more depth, complexity, and balance.  This is one of the best green teas I've ever tried, per my preference (probably not an ideal reference context, since I'd like unconventional green teas better).


Yen Bai version (Vietnamese tea Somnuc made):  still a little cloudy, :( .  The flavor and other character isn't as bad as the appearance would indicate.  It's vegetal, with some astringency, and the mineral undertone is a little rough, a heavy limestone / granite theme.  It's not bad, in a relatively typical range for more local (or rustic) forms of green tea.  Even as commercial forms go this isn't below average, or maybe slightly better than that.  Floral tone probably picked up a little; it's probably better than it was in the first round.


Oiirabot Assam green:  it's better; the flavor is picking up depth.  That fruit from the scent is present; that's nice.  It's just the most subtle of the three; this could've brewed a little longer.  I've been brewing these around 20 seconds, a long time for most types I brew Gongfu style, but then backing off proportion just a little makes that appropriate.

For being about as fruity as any green tea I've ever tried it's quite pleasant.  It also includes a bit of green wood character, or that along with a faint trace of bell pepper.  Floral range is also notable, and sweetness is positive, so it all works.  It doesn't have quite the thickness, richness, and positive balance of the first version (the Ha Giang / Vi Xuyen Vietnamese version) but it's pleasant in similar ways, just less pleasant.  Without trying this alongside one of the best green teas I've yet to try it would seem a lot better.  The subtlety part could be offset by shifting parameters just a little.

Third infusion:

probably a little lighter than optimum, but varying that is interesting

Vi Xuyen:  this is a little lighter; I've probably backed off infusion time a little.  It still works this way, but there isn't much to describe.  I might do a longer round next for contrast.


Yen Bai, Somnuc's tea:  this is in the best balance it's been in.  Color cleared up and the flavors did too, and it's softer and well-balanced for being brewed lighter.  Floral tone is stronger than vegetal range, and it comes across as sweeter.  There's a bit more green bean than green bell pepper to it this round, but floral is stronger.  The feel works better.  I think mineral undertone is more pronounced in this than the other two.  Thai Nguyen green teas exhibit that, the region that produces the best known Vietnamese green teas.  To me it works well in those, and in this; it gives them a nice complexity and depth.


Assam green:  a cooked vegetable aspect picked up in this; odd.  It's not so far off a steamed zucchini, leaning a little towards seaweed.  That underlying fruit is still there, and floral tone, and very light astringency paired with green wood tone.  I really thought this would just be lighter since the other two were, but it shifted some instead, and it's as intense as it has been, in a decent, moderate range.  It's still pretty good, just not improved.  It would be nice if there was a way to concentrate that fruit aspect without ramping up all the rest.  I wouldn't necessarily expect this to be better brewed stronger, given the turn it has taken, but it's worth checking that out.

Fourth infusion:

all quite clear, still completely different colors

This will probably be enough; these will transition further over at least two more rounds but the main story will have been told.

Vi Xuyen:  even though this was brewed closer to 30 seconds it's fading just a little.  It's possible to crank up temperature to get more out of it, or just go longer, and for this tea being soft, sweet, and approachable any of those steps would still give positive results.  Flavor range is contracting a little; fruit is less pronounced, with floral a little heavier in the balance.  Warm tones don't necessarily pull back, so they make up a higher proportion now.


Somnuc's tea:  it's fine, a similar mix of floral tones, vegetal range, underlying mineral, and green wood related taste and astringency.  All pretty standard stuff for Vietnamese green tea.  It doesn't seem to be "brewing out" yet, shifting aspect proportion in a way that indicates that it's fading.  Even minimal oxidation would probably cause a tea version to give up some range related to brewing count and intensity in later rounds, in the case of the first.  A sweet aftertaste is pleasant in this, almost like the "hui gan" effect in sheng pu'er, but without the bitterness preceding it.  That was probably present in about the same form before, and only stands out more now in comparison with the first version, which is thinning.  The astringency is in a better balance than in the first two rounds, and the flavor proportion is better, backing off the vegetal range.


Oirabot Assam green:  more cooked vegetable in this, not unlike the last round.  It would seem likely this wouldn't be nearly as good brewed Western style since those earlier, more positive infusions would be getting combined with this range.  It's odd that it transitioned as much as it did, that the flavor completely changed.  There is still some fruit and floral range present but not much at all compared to vegetable range.  As with the last version sweetness is redeeming, and aftertaste is pleasant, a sweetness that lingers, just not as pronounced as in the second version.

The second tea is by far the best in this round; interesting how that worked out, given it was my least favorite the first two rounds.  I'm not sure which would be best if these brewed for 4 minutes, but I can't imagine that combining those aspect ranges would be better than experiencing them as I did, in stages.  Green tea usually doesn't transition that much, at least per my past experience.  At a guess the first version would've been best prepared that way since it was most consistent over rounds.  It was just odd chance that led the second version to improving as it did, and the third becoming less positive.

The Vi Xuyen noticeably darker, the one Somnuc made the lightest

Conclusions:

Three very different green teas; that would be expected with them being from two different countries.  The first reminded me that green tea can be interesting, novel, a bit complex, and positive (perhaps cheating a little for not being a typical green style, a slightly oxidized green tea).  The second and third were both pleasant in the infusions / rounds they came across best in.  I'd still probably drink sheng pu'er (young or aged), black tea, oolong, or maybe even shu over any of these; personal preference for character, aspects, and types is like that.

They were good though.  And all of these could've potentially been slightly more positive if drinking them more fresh, back closer to their production time in the Spring.  I don't accept that green teas degrade as much as people let on but there's a fresh edge to them, a brightness and intensity, that really does help the character shine.  Some months after production that could fade, especially being stored in a hot environment like Bangkok.  It would be odd if the one I liked best ran completely counter to that rule, and I liked it the best for changing over a year and a half (if it was in fact a 2018 production, which I don't know).

That could lead back to the production process and style themes I didn't develop early on, that backing off the heating step just a little during the kill-green process would leave some enzymes active enough to change in a different way, related to how sheng pu'er is processed and does.  I'm not claiming that happened in this case though.  If anything that character was pulled a little towards black tea range instead, and oxidation and aging transition fermentation are completely different things (relatively completely; age-fermenting sheng do also oxidize, but per my understanding that's not identical in chemical form or aspects output).

It was interesting how much ground that comparison and the three types covered.  There's usually not that much fruit aspect present in green tea, and feel and aftertaste don't cover the range some did in different rounds.  Green tea versions usually don't transition as much as two of those did.  It all made for a pleasant tasting experience.