Farmerleaf Na Lang Laos sheng pu'er

This is the sheng pu'er version I talked about, I think, that I tried with William and cited in the last post about meeting him, a Spring 2024 Na Lang from Laos.

Since I've already introduced this tea I'm going to strip down these tasting notes to what it seemed like to me, removing a lot of the speculation or tangents.  I'll add a little back in with the conclusions, but this will work well kept shorter, without the usual rambling on.  This is William's site description (part of it):

Spring 2024, medium-big trees from forested gardens (listing for $140 per 357 gram cake)

Na Lang village, Nyot Ou District, Laos

A powerful Yiwu-style tea with great endurance 

This is typically the kind of tea you would find in Gua Feng Zhai for twice the price. The point of this tea is not the fragrance, but the good thickness in the soup and the deep Huigan. 

Considering the renown of Yiwu tea, and the high prices its tea fetch, it is not surprising that many tea traders cross the border to Laos and source tea from Nyot Ou district. As a result, most of the tea made in Nyot Ou is bought by tea producers from Yiwu.

Tea grows in the forests of Nyot Ou district along two valleys. The Southern valley is connected to Gua Feng Zhai village through a small road. The environment in which tea grows is similar in Eastern Yiwu and in the two tea producing valleys of Nyot Ou District. Ancient tea trees grow along more recently established gardens in the forests.

from the Farmerleaf site product page

That's a common, well-known theme, that lots of tea from lots of places goes back to China to become pu'er.  I skipped the "pu'er-like tea" limitation earlier, the admission that the type is a regionally limited designation, only applying to teas from Yunnan.  That's a bit absurd, isn't it, given that context, that any tea from Laos, Vietnam, or Myanmar (and less from Thailand) that crosses the border, and is mis-represented in terms of origin, sort of is and also isn't pu'er?  And a very considerable volume of tea undergoes this transition, far more than is ever sold as Laos tea.

It's the best of both worlds for Chinese producers and vendors; they can dismiss those origin area teas as separate and inferior, and then buy them and resell those same teas as the upgraded local version, simply by blending and then mis-labeling them.  Let's move on to how this tea is.

I never do address whether this is like Yiwu or not, a claim made in this description.  I've experienced relatively consistent character in trying a reasonable amount of Yiwu, but it's my impression that I've not experienced a lot more than I've tried, especially related to distinctive versions and higher quality levels.  So I'll just describe what I am experiencing.

I think it makes sense for vendors to never mention much about flavor range.  It would vary over time, and even more so in relation to varying interpretations.  In this review I mention it seeming to taste different when trying this same tea two different times, and I speculate about why that is, real factors that could've changed what I experienced, not just the interpretation.  

William's description doesn't even include a general flavor reference, like "floral," and again I see that as reasonable.  To some it would seem floral, and to others fruity, and different factors could change the compound inputs that these are based on.  It's fine as long as a description can pass on enough range description to draw interest, or inform in some other way.

Review:

First infusion:  a little light, but that's a good way to start, brewing the first round fast to get an initial sense, and letting the second be more typical of the rest.  Flavor is good; quite catchy.  There's a pine-like aspect that others could interpret related to other vegetal range, but only a little.  A fruity tone is something else, on towards juicyfruit gum, or back in the range of natural flavors not really tied to just one, but not so far off tangerine.  Feel is nice; it has some structure, already, but that doesn't seem to track towards being unapproachable.

I've already tried this tea, so this isn't the blind tasting approach I typically use.  I know where this is going, and this tea version is pretty exceptional.  I'll fill in more of an aspects list next round.  

It's completely whole leaf material, not too compressed, so it would be easy to drink it unbroken, but I used some from the parts that had already split off in this tasting, more broken material.  Maybe that's not ideal, but I suppose it's a normal real-life experience form.  I hadn't thought it through getting it ready; depending on how focused in I am I might use the broken material also in the wrapper or carefully separate off some relatively whole leaves.

Second infusion:  that catchy fruit related tone really pops in a stronger round.  Bitterness and astringency really ramp up too; those would be more moderate if someone was more careful about not breaking the leaves.  

The bit of pine, or however that vegetal edge is interpreted, integrates wonderfully with the sweetness, bitterness, fruit tone, and background floral range.  

Intensity is good; I supposed based on what I said in the post about talking with William I should comment on that.  It's not by way of harsh aspects being dominant either; in better quality cakes strong sweetness, bitterness, feel, and positive flavors really stand out.  This is really clean in overall effect; it's not as if young sheng tends to be murky, or to taste like a cinderblock, as comes up more with Liu Bao, but there can be an emergent sort of impression of clarity and cleanness, or lack of that.  

This doesn't seem completely identical to when I first tried it with William.  It was exceptional then, and it is now, but minor inputs can vary, shifting the outcome.  I'm using water from a hot water dispenser and filtration system, so it's not at full boiling point; that changes things.  It's a different version of water.  This leaf is little more broken, as I've mentioned.  We drank this tea in the middle of trying a half dozen versions; that can affect impression and memory.  It seemed to include more bright floral range in that tasting, leaning towards bright citrus, and it probably did, based on those differences. 

Third infusion:  the tone seems to be warming.  It had warmth and depth before, but it's evolving to include a lot of that.  The leaf color is mixed, including some darker range, making me wonder if somehow oxidation level didn't vary a little in this initially.  How?  I'll add more about one thing William said in the conclusions, that might have entered in.

I personally love that effect, when sweetness, flavor complexity, and slight warmth gives a young sheng a much more approachable character.  I suppose people could be mixed on how they relate to that input and effect.  

I'm not doing justice to what I take to be a fruit tone.  It's not so far off dried mango, which surely isn't all one thing, since there are lots of kinds of mangos.  That one flavor input is positive, but it's how it integrates with the rest that works well.  It's intense and refined enough, which can be hard to place within the entire sheng range, or in relation to higher quality versions, or typical Yiwu styles. 

I didn't mention that the intensity carries over to aftertaste experience.  That almost goes without saying, but not completely.

Fourth infusion:  now that warm, sweet aspect tastes more like dried apricot to me, so much so that I'm questioning my earlier interpretations.  It's a lot like apricot, a pretty direct match.  It's quite delicious.  There is plenty of astringency and bitterness to balance it, but it's a quite approachable tea, at the same time.  Someone being more careful than I was to not break the leaves would moderate those parts just a little.

Intensity is so good, and flavors so fresh and bright, that it seems this will go on forever.  It won't; based on trying an earlier cycle this will make a lot of infusions, using the high proportion that's my default, but eventually flavors will thin and bitterness will play a different role.  It's great while it lasts though, which is for awhile.  The bitterness and sweetness stays in your mouth after you drink it, along with that fruit flavor, adding some extra exposure to appreciate.

Fifth infusion:  it's not transitioning all that much, which is as well, because I'm running out of patience for making these notes anyway.  Feel might become richer; that's an interesting shift, for this stage.  It has had pretty good feel structure for this whole cycle, but it gains just a little richness, towards a pleasant sappy feel.  To me that one interesting and positive fruit note integrating with the rest well is the main story, with other range playing a supporting role.  

Conclusions:

It's good, very intense, refined, pleasant, interesting, well-balanced, and so on.  I can't place it in relation to Yiwu range, but this probably is the best Laos sheng I've ever tried, and it might be about the 15th version I've tried.  The warm fruit range was interesting.  Floral tones are often dominant, across a lot of sheng range.  Versions can transition quite a bit, aging over even 9 months or so, but this was quite warm and fruity, and a year of aging input wouldn't cause that.

Back to that oxidation input issue:  William had said that if a producer backs off the kill-green completeness even a little (if I'm remembering this part right) that the stems can not be as fully fixed (compounds inactivated).  Then these can turn redder, more oxidized, as the tea dries, shifting the final character.  Maybe that happened in this?  It would explain the darker colors in some of the material, and also those heavier tones, the fruit range versus the floral, and warmth.

That's all just speculation.  The tea is really nice, the main thing.

Is it worth $140 a cake?  Sure, if someone is open to paying that for it.  It's novel, so there isn't any one established market supply and demand based pricing level.  It could be $500 or 1000, if people are open to paying that.  

There's a general expectation that quality level and range of related experiences out there are the competing factors; there are ways to buy a lot of Yiwu versions, and some other Laos teas, just none that I've tried like this.  If somewhat equivalent versions really do tend to cost $280 instead then maybe this is a great value.  I'm not buying any teas that cost over $100 per cake, so I'm just not part of the whole community, in one sense.  That's about budget limitation, not idealism.  If my tea budget was much different I'd buy this, for sure, but I certainly don't experience that as a regret.  My life balance is something to be thankful for, not to focus on regrets over.

Beyond those concerns the tea character is really interesting and positive.  I've really appreciated the opportunity to try this, and to have some to drink, since William shared a fair amount, not just a sample.  Many thanks to him!

ITea World orchid and magnolia fragrance Dan Cong

 

ITea World sent a few sampler sets to try; I'll be awhile working through them.  They include a Christmas and New Year's themed set, which a Dan Cong set is a part of.  I guess that matches the holidays.  And a Longjing set (less seasonal, but nice), and an aged tea set, based on a mix of pu'er and hei cha types.

To back up a little ITea World is a Chinese tea vendor re-branding initiative, shifting focus from an earlier product theme to selling basics, including sample sets, which have diversified to cover a good bit of range now.  I've reviewed a lot of them, and they've initiated promotion through giving out sample sets to lots of people, including many who aren't tea bloggers or the like.  

This all seems fine to me.  It got to be a bit much on Reddit, especially r/tea, because giving sample sets to a dozen or more Redditors--who are into tea--resulted in a posting blitz there.  But the rest works; most of the samples have ranged from basic to slightly better than average in quality and distinctiveness.  Match to represented types has been pretty good.  I suppose a wild origin set was a little less consistent than some of the rest, but that's how wild origin material and versions tend to go; there isn't a narrow, well-defined character range.  Probably earlier, very low cost samples were more basic, limited in quality, but to some extent sets identified as more unique have been better.

Dan Cong is a challenging range, related to sourcing good versions.  A lot of Dan Cong out there is known for including a distinctive form of astringency, which to me relates to low quality.  Better versions aren't so harsh.  Maybe that relates to lower elevation, mono-culture farmed, fertilizer boosted production, and less than optimum processing.  Or who knows; it requires a lot of hearsay input for cause and effect sequences mapping onto final aspects to seem reliable.  I won't be getting into any of that here.

I'll have to lean into judging general quality level and also specifying match to preference, since I can't really remember distinct floral tones.  That would require quite a bit of scent training, or at least a different kind of memory than I possess.  There have been plenty of orchids growing at our house, and lotus flowers, and lots of flowering vines, but I still don't remember those scents well.  I've tried a good bit of Mi Lan Xiang (honey orchid) and Ya Shi (duck shit) Dan Cong versions, but probably won't keep comparing these back to those types much.  That's honey orchid anyway, not the same as the one I'm trying, just plain orchid.  

Onto review then, but I'll add a product listing and limited information after taking the notes.

I just noticed that they ran a sale offering 25 to 30% off ending yesterday, as of time of editing.  Not so helpful mentioning that now.  Chinese New Year is this month though; how could they not have a sale related to that?

That Dan Cong set contains 100 grams of tea, 20 samples of 5 grams each, listing for $110.  $1 a gram is a standard pricing for high quality level tea, but I personally avoid that spending rate.  With that holiday sale it would've been less, maybe around $70.  The relative value depends on the quality level of these teas.  They would have to be pretty far up the scale to justify even that discounted rate, and since I'm writing this after making review notes I can jump ahead to a conclusion about that:  they are pretty exceptional.  

I really didn't expect that; based only on the two versions I've tried these are slightly better than just about anything I've tried from ITea World.  Their teas have been consistently within average quality range, or a bit above that, but not like these.  Of course you really can't judge a whole set from two randomly chosen versions.

It's odd that set doesn't include Ya Shi, duck shit, isn't it?  That type gets a lot of hype in Western tea circles, and good examples of it are nice.  I asked someone in ITea World about that (indirectly), and they covered that in this Reddit post:

The "Top Ten Aromas" of Phoenix Dan Cong was established back in 1996 by professors and researchers from South China Agricultural University. At that time, Ya Shi Xiang wasn’t as popular. So, naturally, it didn’t make the cut.

2. The Evolution of Ya Shi Xiang

Before it gained fame, Ya Shi Xiang was originally known as Da Wu Ye (大乌叶/“Big Dark Leaf”) because of its large, dark leaves. 

That answers another related question, which fragrance name Ya Shi relates to.  I've tried Da Wu Ye, and never made that connection.  These fragrance or aroma names imply that every version tastes relatively identical, which isn't exactly how it works out.  They would be similar, and overlap in flavor, but wouldn't all be one thing.  Even with completely identical plant genetics--which also isn't how that works out, except for with controlled cultivars--microclimate, soil input, and processing differences change outcome, and flavor aspects.

Related to brewing approach to me it would be a real shame to prepare these using Western style brewing, the 3 to 4 grams to a cup of water approach, brewing for 3 to 5 minutes.  A lot of oolong range--and sheng pu'er--gives much better results using Gongfu brewing.

They include extra tea bags with a lot of their sample sets, including these, but I definitely wouldn't use them with this loose tea.  Of course others could see it all differently.

Review:

Magnolia:  that's quite pleasant.  Dan Cong tends to be made in two different styles, or I suppose really as a continuum between those, but it works to describe it as two consistent ranges.  One is lighter in oxidation and roast input, a "greener" version, which this is, and the other is more oxidized and roasted.  I take the second to be more traditional, but who knows.  

Freshness and brightness comes across well, and also depth, complexity, and refinement.  Quality level seems pretty good.  There is some astringency, but this is far from expressing that harsher edge.  Good Dan Cong, and some other oolongs, tend to express a nice liqueur-like character, with the floral range expressed in a way that is reminiscent of perfume or liqueur, and this is like that.  That depth and intensity carries across well as aftertaste, even though this is just getting started.  It's a good start.  

I suppose the deeper, richer, heavier floral tone may be like magnolia, but I really wouldn't know.  It leans a little towards lavender scent and character effect, one of the few flower types I've encountered so many times that it's familiar.

Orchid:  that floral range is really pleasant.  The other was also nice, but this hits hard.  I suppose it does remind me of orchid range, to the extent I could place that.  Of course there are many versions of orchids, and some don't express that much scent.  It's not so far off lotus scent, another familiar flower type.  

The other was rich and full in character, but this is richer, deeper, and warmer.  It's closer to that more oxidized and roasted style, even though it's really more in the middle.  The balance is great, for getting good results from the tea's potential.  

These are a little better than I would've expected.  Pretty good Dan Cong is out there, not impossible to find, but rougher edged, more limited versions are a lot more common.  It's my guess that I've tried a lot of the better range in the lighter style, from trying a lot of Wuyi Origin's range in the past.  Cindy, one of my favorite tea producer and contacts, and a family member of the owners, married another tea producer from Chaozhou, where Dan Cong originates from, so they really do produce both tea ranges, of course along with many other family members.  It would seem hasty to say that this is as good as their teas, or not as good, but these are really pretty good.

Related to a match to my own preference, even though it's early to call, the warmer tones and very distinctive orchid flavors make the second work better, for me.

Magnolia #2:  I'm trying them brewed fast, and light.  Intensity should still be fine, but they'll give up a bit of feel.  This approach is used to offset what is often described as characteristic astringency, but again I've not noticed that being problematic in higher quality versions.

Flavor intensity is still fine, and it's easier to identify flavor brewed lighter (not that it helps; this is some variation of floral range, probably tasting like magnolia).  Some creaminess still comes across, even though the other version had a thicker, richer feel, matching warmer flavor tones, and greater depth.  One bright, almost citrusy aspect range in the flavors is quite pleasant.  It's still floral tone, not actual citrus taste, but it's light and bright in a similar way.  It does lean towards fruit though.

Orchid:  that's really intense, for being brewed so fast, under 10 seconds.  The increased lightness in the other version didn't carry across; this is rich, deep, and complex.  Between both of these this is most intense floral range flavor experience I've been through in quite awhile.  I guess that's a good thing; it is quite pleasant.

This doesn't seem like a traditional match to a Christmas theme, to me, in the sense of it being a conventional pairing, but it does work well as a parallel experience range.  Maybe especially this second version, for including so much warmth and depth.  

Let's get one possible connection out of the way:  could these be flavored teas?  I really doubt it.  It is possible, since there could be much better extracted flavor products out there than I've encountered, but these don't relate to that general range of effect, as I see it.  I've described a part of the first as matching a solvent flavor experience, but I've only encountered this type of form of that in the best oolong versions, also in Wuyi Yancha range.  These are definitely strong and floral in character; unusually so.  But I expect that's just an anomaly from finding much better than average versions.

If these have been scented they would've had to do so using a traditional form of contact with flowers, layering the two together, then separating the leaves back out.  That is more possible.  Again I doubt that happened, but if so these represent achieving very unusually positive results.  The feel of the tea is also too positive; it perfectly matches how a good quality Dan Cong should feel.  I don't think there is any way to adjust that; the material potential and processing had to be good to begin with.

Magnolia #3:  this is good.  It's the comparison with the other version that's making it seem more limited.  Bright, sweet, complex floral tones are quite pleasant.  Feel is nice, and astringency form and level balance well.  Aftertaste experience is pleasant, adding complexity (or the effect of it).  But the other version dials all that up just a little, in a form that I like better, with flavor range I also prefer.  It makes this seem a bit thin, in comparison, even though that's really a style outcome, not exactly a quality limitation.

It probably helps to explain that in terms of flavor description.  This includes a touch of what I tend to interpret as green wood.  To me that's a natural continuation of that bright, light flavor character, the light floral tone leaning towards bright citrus.  But to some extent it's not entirely positive.  I can't directly compare it to green tea range, really, but it works to say that it's remotely similar in some ways.

Orchid:  deeper, warmer, richer, and quite different in floral flavor range; the same description I've already been repeating.  There really is no vegetal flavor similar to green wood in this, but it might work to interpret one part as similar to aromatic wood, similar to incense spice range, sandalwood or the like.  To me the green wood in the other flavor isn't entirely negative, but it could be interpreted that way by some, while this warm spice tone is a positive input.  

Fourth infusion:  these are transitioning some, but the minor shifts don't replace the original character.  It could make for a more interesting review, for some, to hear about very subtle, minor shifts in flavor aspects, but for as many others it would probably seem redundant.  These are surely less than halfway through their infusion cycle, so changes would be more extreme within another four rounds, but I'll still leave off taking notes here.  The main story has been told, and I need to do some housework prior to going out on a play outing with my kids.

If anything the overall effect of the orchid version has dialed up depth and intensity; that's quite pleasant and promising.  Again it's unusual how good this is.  Both, to some extent, but I really like the style and character of the orchid version more.  

Back to the real versus artificial flavor issue, which I've already set aside, conventionally flavored teas tend to wash out the added flavor fairly quickly, over the first few rounds.  That's probably less the case with naturally infused versions, those layered along with flowers, multiple times, in a different kind of fragrance transfer process.  But if anything these are still improving, instead of fading, as they should be at this stage.  I didn't keep track of minor shifts in flavors later on but they did brew more than four more very positive rounds, and didn't fade in an unpleasant way throughout that cycle.

Conclusions:

So are these as good as Wuyi Origin's versions, those made by my friend Cindy?  If they're not they are at least pretty close to that range.  Wuyi Origin's teas wouldn't all represent the same quality level, or a narrow style range, even though they're generally made lighter, at lower oxidation and roast level, which typically shows off tea character well, and suits some material types.  

Quality level for these samples is high enough that it's on to minor distinctions making a difference, like feel and aftertaste factoring in, and subtle emergent range like refinement.  Them representing different styles and types of Dan Cong is also a positive factor; that's not so easy to turn up, at a really high quality level.

There probably is room for improvement in quality; that's almost always the way it works out.  But it wouldn't be an easy difference to appreciate, for most.  These lack flaws, and are made in pleasant styles (so far; again I've only tried two of ten versions).  They're refined, complex, and distinctive, with good intensity and balance.  It's probably that feel could be a little richer, and aftertaste experience could extend a little.  

I've mentioned those aspects as relative positives in the notes, so it's not as if that's a gap, I'm just guessing that the very highest end of the range may be different in that way, that there could still be room for limited improvement.  Another related guess is that you could buy lower quality versions from supposed curator vendors at twice this pricing rate.  These were pretty good.  For someone exploring Dan Cong this is a good place to start, and especially at a discounted pricing level value is quite fair.

An example might help place that.  A local Bangkok Chinatown shop, my favorite one, Jip Eu, sells a very rare type of Dan Cong product:  medium quality, low priced, good value versions.  They're not this good, giving up unique flavor range, positive feel, and refinement, but they're the outlier example of 100 grams of quite pleasant tea selling for $20-some, which you just don't find in Dan Cong.  That wouldn't come up at a US based Chinatown; one input is that I live in Bangkok (most of the time), where just about everything costs less, especially local products, or some imports from China.  

You typically couldn't even find the same thing for $50 in US shops, for twice as much, because it's such a rare find in general.  The type just isn't there.  It's either $1 a gram, or more, for the higher end range, through curator vendors, or whatever Yunnan Sourcing happens to carry for less.  That could be fine, but I bet most of that is closer to that Chinatown version than these samples.

Tea Tracks Mengsong Xiang (2019) and Ya Nua Gushu (2018)

 

Back to reviewing!  I quit while I visited family in the East Coast of the US, in Pennsylvania, and now I'm back in Bangkok.

I don't want to say too much about these, two sheng pu'er versions from Tea Tracks, sent by a friend to try.  I'm not that familiar with the narrow local areas, although Meng Song kind of rings a bell, and I don't know much about them for backstory.  The website mentions these details:

Meng Song Xiang 2019 - 勐宋  (114 Euro / $124 per 200 gram cake)

Meng Song Xiang is a village in southern Menghai. This tea is made of ancient tree material (gu shu, 古树). It has a full body and a pleasant bitterness, which lingers in the mouth as a fruity sweetness for a long time. Here is a review of the tea (in German): puerh.blog Meng Song review

Taste:  Soft yet bold taste. Upfront bitterness that turns into a sweet sensation.

Trees:  Old trees (gu shu 古树) growing in a natural environment

Origin:  Meng Song, Menghai, Yunnan, China

Ya Nuo 亚诺 2018 (You Le Shan)  (120 Euro / $130 per 200 gram cake)

Ya Nuo is a village on You Le Shan (mountain), one of the old six famous tea mountains in Xishuangbanna. This tea is made of ancient tree material (gu shu, 古树). The tea starts out very softly in the first brews with hardly any bitterness, but develops a nice sensation in the aftertaste. 

This is one of the teas that can clear your head on a cloudy day.

Taste:  Soft and subtle taste that develops a cooling sweet aftertaste.

Trees:  Old trees (gu shu 古树) growing in a natural environment

Origin:  Ya Nuo (village), You Le Shan, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan, China

Harvest:  early Spring 2018

The teas seemed pretty solid when trying them, but it's hard for me to evaluate value in relation to pricing beyond a limited range.  I could tell they seemed pretty good but not really how good.  I suppose then it's on considering how much I like them, setting that aside.  I don't buy pu'er that costs over 50 cents a gram, so of course I would run out of benchmark range. 

These are almost sold out on the website; there won't be much marketing function in describing these, since they'll be gone any day now.  The reviews might be partly about that but also just to communicate about trying teas, and to see what I make of them in notes.

Review:

Mengsong:  pleasant; definitely some bitterness stands out.  This flavor profile is somewhat familiar but I'm not going to do justice to describing it.  Beyond bitterness there is some sweetness, and from there identifying even aspect ranges is difficult.  Floral?  There is definitely a pleasant mineral layer, a little on the dry side, but pleasant in flavor and feel (to the extent that the two ranges map together).  There's good structure to the feel.

So far this just sounds like describing sheng pu'er in general.  It is pretty standard sheng, in one sense, just a better than average version, and only type-typical related to a subset, to Mengsong area versions.  5 years of aging has softened this, probably, although there is still plenty of bitterness and feel structure.  The tones have surely warmed some.  Maybe I'll readjust to reviewing more as rounds go by.

Ya Nua:  to me this expresses a distinctive root spice aspect.  Think along the lines of sassafras, but it's probably not so close to that.  It's not so far off the standard incense spice range, and if I had better scent memory of the main few incense spice versions I could reference one it's closest to.  That has the character overlapping just a little with aromatic wood tones.  Bitterness and mineral are dialed back just a little in comparison with the other, but it's still reasonably intense.  It might slightly less complex.  Better luck with deriving two flavor lists next round.

Mengsong 2:  I brewed these on the fast side for using a relatively high proportion, and for both being on the intense side.  It was still a bit much; I can switch to 5 second rounds to adjust further.  It's not that I forgot that I usually tend to overdo it with proportion, I just didn't offset it.

There's a catchy, familiar range in this I wish that I could describe better.  It's a way in which feel structure, bitterness, floral tone, and mineral all combine, in a very integrated form.  It comes across as a familiar set of aspects, that naturally pair together.  Maybe this is what people would seek out in standard Mengsong experience, a good version of it, but of course I can't claim that.  I don't retain a matrix of memorized local area types, and I might never, regardless of how long I kept trying different things.  

Would people seek out a 5 year old version, and how is the storage input for this if they were inclined to?  Those are harder to answer.  This aspect set is dialed in though; the proportion of everything is as it should be, and there are no flaws, no out of place aspects.  You're signed on for bitterness in drinking it, but to me that's moderate, even if it's higher than I would've expected for a partly age-transitioned tea.  Maybe this wasn't stored in a very humid place.  To me that's fine, aging and changing a tea over more slowly, unless there is a reason to get it moving quickly, for example to get a factory tea that will need 20-25 years to be good to cover that ground in 15.  I suppose at a minimum saying more about the floral range in this would be helpful, but not much comes to mind for labeling it.

Ya Nua:  this picked up a little depth and smoothed out some in character; it's better.  It's slightly more subtle now, but it still has a lot going on.  Bitterness hasn't faded but it's moderate compared to the other.  There is plenty of mineral range and other deeper flavor complexity, it's just not as forward and dominant as in the other version.  Spice tones still make up a main part of the experience.  Feel has decent structure, even a touch of dryness, all of which prevents it from coming across as thin.  At 6 years old (probably 6 1/2) this will head into that range where it shifts over from being new to old right around now, and maybe flavors seeming a little less forward now is a part of that.

As with the other it comes across as quite clean and well balanced to me, lacking flaws or limitations.  I suppose flavor complexity either settling out, for now, or being limited earlier on could be a limitation, but I see that as more character neutral, just how it is.  Something being out of balance would be more what I'm referring to, or a negative aspect.

At two rounds in I'm already feeling this.  I'm finally back in Bangkok, which is why I'm reviewing again, back in this familiar hot and humid environment, and even though it's 9 AM it's warmer than Pennsylvania had been during a cooler mid-afternoon.  It's too bad that more people back there don't appreciate the great tea drinking weather.

Mengsong 3:  this is shifting, in a pleasant way.  A bit more spice tone picks up, not completely unlike the range found in the other, just not the same either.  

Ya Nua:  less transition, but the tones may be warming slightly.  This seems like a good round to let it transition and get back to describing it more next time.

Mengsong 4:  it's interesting how bright and fresh this is, for being a 5 year old tea.  I could try to guess about how this has softened in character over that time, how it would've been more intense and challenging within the first year or two.  In part that would relate to describing what could be taken as positive about somewhat drier range storage.  Or maybe just a medium humidity and heat input range version; it's easy to pick up a biased judgment of norm here in Bangkok, where both are dialed up to maximum.

It's also interesting to consider where this will go from here, what relatively full aging might look like for it, when, and in what character range.  It needs at least another decade, or maybe more for full transition.  It's in a decent place for drinking as somewhat transitioned tea now, I suppose not so far out of entering into the teen years phase, when it might not make as much sense.  I certainly can't project ahead and list out likely flavor range to develop, but the intensity and balance at this stage seem like a good sign, that it's holding up well so far.

Ya Nua:  this is less complex and intense, but it has an interesting character, and plenty of intensity related to providing a pleasant experience now.  It's not muted.  The earlier spice range is still dominant, and a bit of vegetal range might've picked up as well, along the lines of tree leaf, not exactly like wood, but kind of related.  Maybe it only shifted in form, and it had seemed more like aromatic wood earlier, now vegetal in a different sense.  In most forms that would seem like a flaw, a subject I've already referenced, but with plenty of spice tones and mineral range it integrates well in this.

For someone preferring intensity of experience the other might be better.  One might question if this doesn't express a different kind of depth, related to the gushu theme, a standard idea that forward flavors might not be as intense but a base of depth could stand out more.  I don't know.  Both are fairly balanced; both have plenty going on across a significant range.  Underlying mineral range is a strength for both.

A different kind of acid test comes to mind, based on having visited "home" recently, drinking mostly a half dozen versions of tea for a month:  which would I keep returning to, if I had plenty of both?  I really love approachable, interesting, sweeter range, even fruity sheng, more than these two styles.  Sometimes I do crave a more intense experience, and it's not hard to appreciate good quality in tea versions.  Probably I like the Mengsong more.  It's more standard and less novel, in a sense, and would fill more of a craving for intensity and complexity, when that comes up.  I tend to go in cycles, and I'll even drink harsher teas sometimes, a bit here and there for weeks, like not quite ready Xiaguan tuos (which seem to never be fully ready, maybe until 25 or 30 years along, even aged in Bangkok).

Mengsong 5:  better than ever; the character really integrates.  In terms of description it's still about the same, but the balance has shifted to work even better.

Ya Nua:  this is still interesting for being on the subtle side, as sheng goes, related to flavor, which is perhaps a bit odd since it's on the intense side as oolong or black teas go, never mind white tea.  Then it has a lot of depth, including some bitterness, and great mineral range, so the intensity is there, just not in terms of forward flavors, as in the other.

It's breezy out just now; that's not usually the case in Bangkok.  At 9:30 it's sort of cool (30 C / 86 F and 71 % RH), or at least what I'll need to adapt to as cool for here.  At its maximum the PA "Indian summer" was in the mid-80s, but much, much drier.  Running there was fantastic.  It was easy to pick a time to go out when it was only 60 or so (16 C), so "cold" that your body heat would never accumulate.

Mengsong 6:  I'm maxed out for tea, and these aren't changing that much anyway, so this will do for notes.  Again it's interesting and pleasant how the earlier floral tones have transitioned more into a spice range.  The brightness, intensity, and complexity are all quite positive in this.  This seems like the kind of tea everyone should own a cake of, I just don't.  This version should cost a bit, for as good as this seems.  I suppose it's possible that the most recent peak in sheng pu'er costs happened just after this was made, so it might be more reasonable than I expect [not really, unless more current pricing is really high].

Ya Nua:  quite nice; good depth, good balance, interesting character.  I love the other one more, so that offsets that positive judgment some.  I think that has to do with relation to preference as much or more as quality, or it being more interesting.  I suppose local area demand shifts pricing as much as any of those other factors, so cost could relate to what other people seem to value, or at least what the market takes up and promotes.

Conclusions:

Both pretty good teas.  I kept going back and forth over how good while trying them.  They seem better in quality than they are a close match to my own natural preferences; I like them, but they're probably better than a match to my preference indicates.

Since other people sometimes value more aged character ranges that I don't love it can be hard to project ahead to what others might like later on, as they transition more.  Often I'd fill in more guesses about that, but it wouldn't be based on much, and would be unreliable, so I may as well skip that part.

I had a fairly typical experience with trying a tea in this general age range just today, the day after making these notes, so I'll mention that.  I re-tried a Nan Nuo version that I really liked, that I had drank most of the cake of back when it was new, made in a really bright, fresh, sweet, approachable when young style, from 2017.  It was still ok, but not nearly as positive as it had been 6 years ago.  It wasn't simply fading away as much as I'd expected, but it had been a good call to mostly drink straight through that over a year's time back then, setting a little aside to see how it might change later.

These are different, and especially the Mengsong seems to be retaining some intensity and complexity.  The Ya Nua version had interesting character too, it was just more subtle already.  It's interesting how sheng versions need to be made in a very specific style, related to aspects included, and I guess to how versions are processed, or else the flavor tones warm but they seem to oxidize instead of fermenting.  Or so it seems to me, but then what do I know.

back to my favorite tasting spot

cleaning up after a month of unmanaged growth in the garden

October must have been a bit rainy

Comparing exceptional Vietnamese and Taiwanese white teas

 

Vietnamese tea left, Taiwanese right, in all photos

I'm comparison reviewing Vietnamese and Taiwanese white teas, a Lai Chau Deep Forest White, from 2024, from Viet Sun, and a Lishan Taiwanese White, from 2022, from Tea Mania.

After getting a bit bogged down in describing how medium level aging concerns work out for sheng pu'er in a last post I want to keep this simple.  It will be about what I think of the experienced aspects, not about aging, trueness to type, regional background differences, or anything else beyond what is in the cups.  One of these is two years old, and one is from this year, and I won't really speculate on whatever difference that might have made.

There's some risk I'll like one more than the other, then maybe I'll complicate this talking about varying preferences for aspects, but I don't want to take that sort of theme very far either.  Writing a simple review would be nice.  As usual vendor page citations say what they are:

Lai Châu Deep Forest White Spring 2024  ($29 per 100 grams)

A beautiful and unique tea from ancient non-Sinensis varietal tea trees growing wild at altitudes of 2200-2500m in Phong Thổ, Lai Châu. The people living and making tea in this area are of the Dao ethnicity.

The raw leaves used to make this tea take on shades of red, purple and green with a glossy look and every tree produces leaves with a different appearance. You can also find leaves that look different on individual trees. Picking the leaves to make this tea requires a long walk into the forest and climbing up very tall tea trees. This is only possible on days with good weather.

This tea brews up into a clear golden soup. The fragrance and flavor is stone fruit fruity and floral with cane sugar, orchid and mountain forest notes. This tea has a lingering “purple effect” common in many wild varietal white teas like this and a strong but relaxing qi. No bitterness or astringency.

I like to brew this one at 90C for the first few steeps and then gradually increase to 100C during later steeps.

Interesting, that this isn't from Camelia Sinensis.  It definitely tastes unique.  For once my flavor description of it is pretty close to Steve's.  Very similar descriptions can relate to slightly different interpretations of the same flavors, but this matches better than usual.  

I don't know about the relaxing qi; I tried it along with another tea.  I suppose it was nice not getting blasted as I do when comparing sheng versions, but that experience is nice in a different sense too.

Lishan White (25 CHF / $29.44 for 50 grams)

This white tea is also an absolute rarity and we were only able to get hold of a few grams. The tea leaves come from Qingxin bushes which grow on the Lishan. The tea has an abundance of pleasant aromas with a floral and full-bodied character. The high altitude results in a much more intense and complex aroma which is normally not found in a white tea.

Harvest: Summer 2022

Taste: Full-bodied and complex

Terroir: Lishan, Taiwan

Preparation: Per serving approx. 2g, temperature approx. 75°C,  time 1 – 2 minutes

There are a few things to unpack there.  I'd brew it hotter; why not?  It really is one of the most unique white teas I've tried, maybe even more novel than this Vietnamese version, although both were absolutely different than any versions I remember trying before.  

60 cents a gram is a bit much, but then this tea probably is a type that barely even exists.  And it's unusually high in quality level, pleasant to experience, and from a high demand production area, where above average oolongs would command a decent price.  That price seems reasonable.

Review:

Lai Chau Deep Forest White:  the dry leaf scent is very deep, rich, sweet, and fruity.  Brewed it doesn't match that dry scent intensity; I may need to go a little longer on the next round.  I did brew these for 20-some seconds, so a bit, but I can push them for 30 to 40, given proportion is a little lower than I usually use.

Sweetness and fruit is evident in this.  It's complex; it tastes a bit like peach or apricot, but there's a lot more going on than that.  It might include grape as well, but not the modern grocery store grape range, more like the older Concord type used to make juice in the past.  Or I think that was a broad type range; I'm not completely caught up on types of grapes.  Mineral range includes a touch of savory quality, and significant sweetness makes it all balance well.

Lishan White:  I was concerned this might just be too subtle to hold its own but the opposite occurred instead; there's a strong spice range in this that's more intense than all of the character of the other.  It includes cinnamon, but it may extend beyond cinnamon.  Sweetness is pleasant; that works.  Beyond that there is other range but it's hard to identify at this stage, maybe a few minor supporting themes.  I'll push both a little harder and try to add more breakdown.

Lai Chai #2:  that picks up a lot of warmth and depth.  Flavors are so complex that it's hard to get it to separate out as a list of impressions.  There's a lot of fruit, all mixing together as one theme.  Again one part is in between peach and apricot, and grape doesn't stand out as much, but a hint of citrus does.  Warm tones are along the line of dry autumn leaf.  Sweetness is good, and feel is rich enough that it adds to the experience of overall complexity.  It would be a shame to swap out those brighter tones by aging this but it has enough depth already that it might work well to; that might increase further.

It's strange how when I try a little later, after tasting the other, when it's quite cool, the grape flavor comes back.  It tastes like grape bubblegum, more than actual grapes, like the old Hubba-Bubba version, or something such.

Lishan:  it's crazy tasting this much spice in a white tea.  This could actually include some cinnamon (it doesn't; I mean the impression is that clear and strong).  Feel might be even a little richer and fuller than for the other version, kind of velvety.  Sweetness level is comparable for the two, high enough to add to overall complexity, and a good level to support the balance.

It's strange how complex this comes across, even though the set of flavors is kind of bundled within a limited range.  There might be a general floral range beyond the spice, and a touch of fruit.  Warm tones are a main part of the overall balance, that spice range, and some mineral, with floral and fruit brighter.  Then as a secondary supporting input the floral and fruit range is less distinct, but it still plays a pronounced role in the overall impression.  Spice seems to include a hint of fennel seed, other warmer, towards-savory range.  These are some pretty interesting teas.

Lai Chau, #3:  there's a depth to this that's hard to describe.  I probably mean different things by that when I say it about different teas; that probably doesn't help.  There's a good bit of fruit, shifting now to warmer tones, but other deeper warm range really picks up, from the earlier mineral base and autumn leaf aspects.  It gives up some higher end, sweeter and more forward notes related to that shift, but it's pleasant.

Lishan:  this stays more consistent, evolving less.  I suppose there may be a shift to slightly warmer tones, brought on by round transition, and probably going slightly longer on the infusion time, but it's not so different than earlier.  It's interesting how flavor complexity and fullness of feel work together to make this seem complex.  That's true of the other tea version too, but in a different way, and a different sense.  

This includes fullness of feel more like oolong range can express.  There's a bright, sweet floral and mineral oriented note--a flavor set, I guess--that seems to tie it together with local origin oolong flavor range.  The other tea might be more complex, in terms of covering more flavor scope, and other aspect range, but this has a good bit more depth.  Some warmer range fills in complexity, and it comes across as quite refined.

They both brewed a few more pleasant rounds, but I left off taking notes here.

Conclusions:

These are both unusually good.  I kind of didn't expect that, since I didn't read the descriptions before trying them.  The Vietnamese version shows that interesting character in dry leaf scent, so much fruit, but the Lishan version doesn't as much.  It's interesting considering how they seem in light of those descriptions.  

The Vietnamese version does seem novel enough that it makes sense that's it's different plant type, but it doesn't include any of the sourness edge that can come up in those, even purple leaf versions, which I think are just a variant of Assamica.  Purple tea can taste a little like grapes, sometimes.

The Lishan version was really unique, complex, and refined.  White teas can lack flavor complexity and intensity, but these didn't.  Feel structure is often quite limited, but the Lishan version even covered that.  Both expressed so much depth that I didn't necessarily miss the intensity and edge that I usually experience drinking sheng more often.  

Someone could have drank a lot of more standard form Chinese white teas in the past, and like them, and feel that either of these really opened a door on new experience range for them.

2022 Yiwu gushu sheng pu'er and 2023 Gedeng arbor sheng

I'm reviewing two more sheng pu'er from Tea Mania, a Yiwu and a Gedeng version.  Yiwu needs no introduction, and Gedeng isn't familiar, so I'll refer to the site descriptions for background (for both):

Yiwu Gushu 2022 ($100 for 200 grams)

For this bingcha tea leaves of up to 300 year old tea trees (gushu) from Yiwu were used and made into a bingcha. A certain similarity to the very-popular Lucky Bee can’t be denied. In addition to the typical Yiwu aroma, there is a well known depth and clarity from the gushu leaves and a hint of camphor.

Who are Tea Masters Panda and Yang Ming?

Tea Masters Panda and Yang Ming are good friends and experts when it comes to Pu-erh. Yang Ming is a local tea farmer of Yiwu and descendants from a family with a long tradition in Pu-erh making. Incidentally, our popular Lucky Bee teas are from Yang Ming’s tea fields. 

I guess 50 cents a gram sounds reasonable for this type and quality of tea.  It's beyond what I would spend on tea, but it seemed pretty good to me (I always add the descriptions after making notes).  The only description here is a little like Lucky Bee, that character is standard for Yiwu, and it includes a hint of camphor.  I didn't notice the camphor, but it did seem like normal Yiwu range to me.

Gedeng Arbor Pu-erh (note the listed version is 2020, and I've reviewed 2023) $83 for 357 gram cake 

Tea Master Panda has graciously shared with us a prized gem from his personal collection: the Gedeng Arbor Pu-erh tea. Known for its profound and rich aroma, this tea, meticulously preserved, stands as a unique treasure for tea aficionados.

Arbor tea

The Gedeng Arbor Pu-erh tea is crafted from leaves harvested from Arbor tea trees, some of which are up to 100 years old, in the Gedeng region. These leaves are pressed into bingcha using traditional granite stones. While there is some resemblance to other teas of the six old tea mountains, the Gedeng Arbor Pu-erh is more herbal and full-bodied. In addition to this typical Gedeng aroma, there is a depth and clarity, along with a hint of camphor.

This makes comparison with a listed item tricky, because this is a 2020 version instead of 2023, the sample that I tried.  I specifically mention in these notes that this tea is in a good place now, and I wouldn't hold onto it for another year or two if I owned it, I'd just drink it.  I'm sure that it's fine as a 4 year old version, maybe better in a limited sense, and the starting point may have been somewhat similar, that year's version.  Those are all still just guesses though.

Maybe the one unusual flavor note I keep mentioning, or set of them, is a "typical Gedeng aroma."  Again I'm not so sure about the camphor.  It seems like the kind of thing that people end up looking for, and finding often enough, and then I don't.  Once in a long while something will taste like camphor to me but that's rare.  In talking to another friend recently about this particular aspect he guessed that maybe people tend to place what seems like pine flavor as camphor, related to expecting it, while others use a different interpretation related to not expecting it.  Who knows.

If this was identical to the 2023 version then 23 cents a gram (what that works out to) would be a pretty good price for that tea.  There is a running "older is better" understanding when it comes to sheng, that a few years of age are better than none or one, and 20 years is better than 10, but to me the first comparison doesn't always work.  Some teas that are approachable and pleasant right away only lose positive character, even after as short a time as two years (over that first year there is change, but typically not a complete shift).  

The 2022 Yiwu was considerably more age-transitioned (changed by fermentation, really) than the 2023 Gedeng; two more years could change a lot.  I'm not implying any particular conclusion here, just talking around how the inputs and outputs work out.  

Preference also factors in; there would be people who tend to always love 3 or 4 year old sheng versus new, 1, or 2 year old versions, and also the opposite, in relation to more approachable character sheng.

small discs again; Yiwu is on the left in all photos

Review: 

Yiwu, #1:  these are really on their second infusion; I let the discs soak for one minute first, then tore them into pieces, then this is a second round, brewed for another minute.  It's not optimum, since it will brew tea that had wetted first too strong, and not start in on the core of what is still compressed, but it's one way to jump-start the process.  

Doing a lot of messing around with partially soaking them and using a pu'er knife to separate them apart is another way, or just brewing the outer part in early rounds and the inner tea only after a half dozen infusions.

Character is warmer than I expected; this is two year old tea, but it has shifted a good bit in that time (I expect; surely this didn't start out slightly oxidized).  Rate of change depends on storage conditions; I guess this wasn't stored in a very cool and dry place, which is probably more optimum.  Better than here too, in Bangkok, where teas and people living here end up being heated and steamed, living daily life at 90 F / 30 C and 70% RH.  Living again and storing teas back in Honolulu would be good, dropping that temperature a little.

It's floral, I guess.  It has decent complexity; there's really a few things going on.  Floral range is part of that, maybe even complex floral range, then most of warmer tones might relate to a mineral layer.  There's often a catchy sweet note in Yiwu, which is generally floral, that I might be able to place more clearly than that, and this has that distinctive flavor aspect, or set.  It's a sort of brightness, that stands out in a complex and refined character.  

There's nothing challenging about this tea, as expected; there is a little bitterness, but not much, and astringency is moderate.

Gedeng:  there's a pronounced fruit note in this.  It reminds me of experiences with Nannuo versions before, how that has stood out in some of them.  Maybe not identical to this but pretty similar.  It has decent complexity too, and just a hint more edge to the feel, but it's also quite approachable.  Again there's very limited bitterness, but some, which is nice for balancing the rest.  For an oolong drinker maybe that's a medium level; I mean for sheng of this age that input is limited.  It's too early to call, on the first infusion that's strong enough to make notes on, but at this stage I really like this version better, for how that one note makes it more unique, standing out in a background of other floral and mineral range.

These will only brew a more conventional round next time; this was while they were still opening up, saturating all of the leaf material, or at least most of it.

Yiwu, #2:  evolving a little, gaining complexity, but not so different.  The depth in this is nice.  Flavor range is fine too, and feel, and aftertaste is positive, but there's another emergent range of it having depth that is something else.  I suppose a mineral base is a part of that, one main thing contributing to it.  It's nice the way that bright and sweet notes, and good complexity, integrate well with warmer and deeper mineral tones.  It seems pretty good.

Gedeng:  this has evolved too, again in the same direction it had been expressing last round.  That one note is really nice, a bright fruit tone.  I could try to describe it in relation to fruit flavors but it's not going to completely work.  It's also mixing with floral range, and a mineral base, and it's not striking me as closely related to one fruit flavor.  Still let's go there.

As far as I know there is no such thing as dried mangosteen, but if there was this might taste like that.  You eat that fruit by chewing the fruit part off from an attached seed; there is no way to pull it apart.  There's a brightness, sweetness, and complexity to this fruit tone, like that.  It's not so far off some forms of dried mango, just not exactly that either.  

Mango isn't just one thing, because there are lots of versions of it, as with apples, and they vary just as much, or maybe more.  I absolutely love my favorite versions of mango but I tend to see the most common ones here more, which aren't as nice.  Then there is the holy grail of versions, something absolutely fantastic that you run across somewhere, and almost never get to see again.  I'm not saying that this tastes like the best possible mango, just going on a tangent there.

Yiwu #3:  I'm brewing both of these a bit stronger than I typically would, because both are approachable and can handle it, and I want to clear through the issue of some not being saturated yet.

Being brewed just a bit stronger than I typically would warmth and mineral range comes out a bit more.  Brewed more lightly the sweeter floral range would stand out more.  I'll try a fast round next time to check on that.  Of course I'm not still brewing these for a minute; I mean that using a 20-some second infusion time makes them stronger than I would usually prepare most sheng.

Again complex floral range stands out most, and warm mineral depth, with sweetness seeming to tie to honey flavor, that warmth.  It's pleasant; it all integrates quite well.  If this is some $1 a gram version, as it probably is, it's in the right character range to demand a high price, I just wouldn't buy teas priced like that [editing note:  it's not, the price is lower than that].  On a relatively open tea budget it could make sense; this is complex, refined, free of any flaws, and sort of on the unique side, except for being one of the most familiar broad origin ranges (there must be many local area distinctions with Yiwu, that I'm not familiar with).

Gedeng:  it evolves a bit.  That one note I've described as similar to a warm dried tropical fruit is changing, more into spice range now.  I've tried to explain what I've meant by "root spice" recently, and it's not unrelated to that.  Like sassafras root, related to root beer; let's leave it at that.  

When you drink a lot of tisanes over a long period of time lots of others come up.  Not if you are using Yogi tea producer sources and such, I mean if you can search a little broader and deeper.  There are bark spices that are out there that are sweet, complex, unique, and distinctive, way beyond cinnamon.  I went through over a decade of exploring tisanes, before I ever got into tea, over a decade ago now, so most of the names of the more interesting types I've long since forgotten.  Sage was my overall favorite; I guess that could work as a recommendation.

It's interesting comparing these two in terms of in reference to my own preference.  I really like that one distinctive note in this Gedeng tea, and it's quite pleasant how it's evolving, and how it integrates with a promising, complex, and refined base of other flavors.  In some abstract sense maybe the Yiwu is better tea, it really has depth and refinement going for it, but this adds an extra touch of interesting character.  Then I suppose others might dislike that flavor instead, and would find it off-putting.  It's funny how preference works out.

Yiwu #4:  I'm blasted from all this tea already; brewing it strong to get it to fully infuse really caught up to me.  I ate a couple of cookies to settle my stomach and slow the drug-like effect input but I'll need to take a break after this.  I suppose all that is good for someone into "cha qi" drug-like effect.  It's not really my thing.

Sweetness level seemed to drop in relation to comparing this to the taste of cookies (oatmeal with cream); that's natural enough.  After drinking some water as a reset it's more back to normal.  The effect is different for brewing these faster and lighter, not much over 10 seconds that last round.  The bright and sweet tone doesn't come out as much as I'd expect, and it's all a bit muted.  At least 15 seconds would be better, maybe even 20 again.

Gedeng:  intensity seems higher for this one, either related to this transition phase, or just how that one dominant note seems to carry the rest.  Again it's a main input that is really a bit complex, and is shifting in form across the rounds.  A catchy floral tone stands out now too, on the same level for comparative intensity.  A hint of vegetal input may be creeping in, like a light green wood tone.  It's odd that all that is changing while the Yiwu just went a bit quieter.  

These are one year apart in production date, Spring 2022 for the other, 2023 for this.  The leaf color is much darker for the Yiwu.  That's how things would go, that a version being one year old enables some transition, and two twice as much, but stored dryer that Yiwu wouldn't have changed nearly as much.  

For some sheng versions they're so intense and approachable right away that a few months rest might be helpful but they're really good new.  I bet both of these were just fine within a month of being produced.  Then a relative optimum for the first year or two of transition could be harder to place, but more challenging versions than these would be better after 2 or 3, while these may not be improving.  I like where the Gedeng version is at right now, and the Yiwu is fine, interesting for including so much depth and complexity, but I don't think hanging around for another year or two would be favorable for either.  They're good now.  

Of course it's partly a guess but I don't think there was ever a challenging range for these that needed to settle out, harsh astringency or over the top bitterness (which some people like; the stronger the better).  I just reviewed a Lincang version that was a good example of that; it was fine for people who love getting blasted by bitterness, but for me another year or two of rest will probably improve it, or maybe 3 or 4 in that case.

Yiwu, #5:  these I brewed for much longer, more like a minute, not because that makes sense, but because I was answering a message online.  It will be interesting to see what a stronger infusion turns up in them.  For positive flavor and body / feel experience it's not optimum, but sometimes flaws can be more identifiable if a tea is brewed stronger.  Or it's just a different perspective on the same tea.

Mineral is so strong in this, and a range in between wood and spice stands out.  It's actually not bad, brewed too strong like this.  It has great depth, and the balance still works.  It seems to imply that it will shift towards a vegetal range in later rounds, but that's ok too.  Nothing else like a distinct flaw turns up.  Of course warmth picks up brewing it like this, feel gets heavier, and sweetness is more moderate.  All that is a normal shift related to higher infusion strength.

Gedeng:  a green wood tone is a little too strong in this; it doesn't work quite as well.  I suppose an overbrewed round is more about seeing how it will go anyway.  That one vegetal range is a little harsh, but nothing else seems like a flaw.

Yiwu, #6:  back to sweet, lighter, more balanced, full in feel, and refined this round.  There is a vegetal note creeping in, maybe to both of these.  Someone brewing these lighter could be experiencing the same general transition level (between rounds transition) at 7 or 8 infusions along, or more; trying to get the discs / coins to open up and brewing a round extra strong really speeded things up.  Carefully separated tea from a tea cake brews better; it is what it is.  

This is fine at this round though; character is nice, balance of aspects is good.  The broad floral range input is even less distinct, now combined with warm mineral and some vegetal range picking up.  Sweetness comes across as more limited.  It still seems refined though.

Gedeng:  of course it's much better, brewed appropriately.  It's harder to place how the fruit that had transitioned to spice range is coming across now, which always had been mixed with floral range, and underlying mineral.  It all integrates.  Feel is nice; it's picking up a liqueur-like quality, that matches with some of the aromatic flavor range, or seems to.  

It can be hard separating preference from quality level determination in this.  I really like this style and set of aspects, and it seems like pretty good tea, but the two kinds of impressions mix.

I think I'll leave off taking notes here.  For pushing these teas a bit hard the transitions from here would represent more of what would typically occur in the 8th or 9th rounds, or maybe 10th or 11th if someone brews tea lightly, which isn't going to be as positive as earlier rounds for these teas.  I wouldn't say that I've botched the brewing for these, but limitations enter in related to brewing tea discs, as with dragonballs.  

That could be positive instead of negative for using a grandpa-style approach; the tea would really hang in there for lots of rounds brewed while left in a tea bottle or jar.  To me it would kind of be a shame to brew these teas this way, for being as good as they are, but if someone had a good bit of them and liked that approach then it would be fine.

Conclusions:

It's all already kind of there in the review notes part, but I can add some summary.  I liked the Gedeng version more.  It was interesting and distinctive, and the novel flavor aspect--a set of flavors, that transitioned--really worked for me.

The Yiwu was good too.  In some ways as far as quality markers go (aspects I see as identifying how good a tea is), overall balance, complexity, and depth it may have been a little better.  The Gedeng version was pretty good too though; it didn't have flaws, or thin spots in character.  I probably liked it more for being a year younger, for not transitioning as much.

Other people would already love Yiwu character, and would get hooked on minor character aspects that probably do actually tie to the gushu / plant age theme.  I'd probably just buy the Lucky Bee version instead, the newest one they sell, which seems to be 2022.  It's $53 for a standard 357 gram cake, 15 cents a gram instead of 50.  Or as I've mentioned before Tea Mania sells a sampler set; that's one way to see how you think it all works out for their types, quality level, match to preference, and value.  Then there's always the complication of meeting a cut-off level for free shipping, but most people don't have a problem with sorting out what else to add to a cart, it's the opposite that's more problematic, narrowing that down.

I've been trying different pu'er lately this year, back into broader range exploration.  One of the nice things about Tea Mania was always that value stood out, that the teas were always really good for the selling price.  I tend to avoid 50 cent to $1 a gram products but this really applies to everything I've been trying from them.  It's all pretty good tea, especially related to how that compares to the price.  I've been trying some teas selling for more that weren't as good.  In these reviews I tend to not dwell so much on value, only implying that it's a concern when it comes up.  Personal value really relates to match to preference, in the end, more than an objective quality level, so it can be hard to say that a tea isn't worth it.  

You can sometimes identify a market price, sort of, but a version has to be a really standard form or type to enable that.  It might've come up as implied in the vendor description that this one version was standard, pleasant, good quality gushu Yiwu, as if it could be compared to a norm.  I don't think they meant it that way, though; I think it was more a limited comment about flavor profile.  

It doesn't work well to taste a tea and peg an objective quality level, degree of match to standard type, typical market price, and comparison of that version to other vendors' alternatives.  Maybe some people can do some of that.  I comment on some of those things, not all of them, but I generally keep it a bit limited and vague because you can only go so far with it.