Random Thainess expat meet-up, presenting "Experiencing Thai Teas"

I recently attended an expat meet-up event with an informative presentation theme, Random Thainess, and presented about "Experiencing Thai Teas."  It went well, and was well received.


The event was hosted by Expique, a local Sathorn (Bangkok) travel tour agency, (more on them here, and on their events here, rated on Trip Advisor here).  Other speakers presented about the role of model / presenters in Thailand ("pretties"), on Thai culture related to Thais living outside Thailand, about cemeteries in Bangkok, and about a local charity agency that supports rescue or assistance to Thai sex industry workers, some of those human trafficking victims.  Food was served, with proceeds from entrance fees covering events expenses and going to that local charity.  Maybe 30 or so diverse attendees were there, a nice small group, with some Thais attending, but mostly expats.

part of the audience, photo credit to Random Thainess group

Why would I present something there at all?  It's part of a mission to share tea experience and knowledge, more about what this blog is about.  Public speaking really isn't an interest, but since it tends to come up in my work I don't really mind it either.  This blog was intended to discuss tea with like minded people, or even as an introduction, but of course it ends up preaching to the choir more than reaching out to people who don't already like tea.


The same type of consideration seems to apply to the event; why do they do this?  It was interesting, and my impression was that it evolved from other functions, a twist on other versions of expat meet-ups.  It's not so easy to describe the cultural discontinuity that can go along with being an expat, perhaps not so much an issue if one falls into a conventional expat interest group, like various bar crowds.  But expat lifestyles and interests vary, and not everyone spends evenings sitting on a stool next to other like minded individuals.  Also Expique does work related to tours, and background about Bangkok and Thailand fits with that, even if the meet-up scope ventures further.

Experiencing Thai Tea (my part)

I served tea at the same time, an Anxi Tie Kuan Yin and Taiwanese Oriental Beauty (heavy on cinnamon, that version), so not actually Thai teas, kind of strange.  They're close in style to some Thai teas, and what I had on hand.  I'd also brought a Thai Jin Xuan cultivar based black tea that would have worked well brewed in volume, but somehow sticking with oolongs seemed to make sense, they're interesting and approachable.

A bit off the tea subject, I'd made some papaya leaf tisane over the weekend and gave away four samples of that (herb tea, to many, so overlapping, but "tea people" are jealous of sharing that word).  By "I made herb tea" I mean papaya trees grow at our house, and making a tisane from the leaves is something I've been experimenting on, mostly just drying them, but I roasted that version a little to change the flavor.

I'll share most of the content I actually presented here.  It's quite basic, with the idea being passing on what one might say to introduce tea in less than ten minutes, as much as actually covering the subject of tea in Thailand.  This reminds me of blogging meeting Slideshare, so I did in fact upload those to Slideshare, so you're welcome to use them yourself.

lots of radomness and Thainess in one person

It was a lot to cover in a short span, but some nice follow-up questions filled in some obvious gaps.  People asked about caffeine in tea, how much someone could drink in a day, and about regional differences in teas (Thailand versus elsewhere).  Of course I missed a lot more than I covered, for example I didn't get around to mentioning that people in Japan tend to drink green tea, or get into Gongfu brewing, because there just wasn't time to drift around the general topic.  I also didn't mention that they actually do make hei cha in Thailand (dark tea, compressed tea, like pu'er), or any number of other tangents.


I've been considering setting up a completely tea-themed expat meet-up, the right venue just hasn't turned up.  Since I have young kids I'm not really active in attending meet-ups, since staying out until 9 means I'll miss seeing my kids that evening, not something I take lightly or do often.  But eventually something might work out.  For now it's great that a small group of people know just a little more about tea, and tried a decent version.

Luka cafe in Sathorn, Bangkok, revisited

I visited Luka cafe in Bangkok and reviewed a tea there not long ago (in March, a Bai Mu Dan / Peony, here), and just made it back for another lunch recently.  I tried a second tea, so I'll say a little more about that, and I bought loose tea there this time, so I can pass on how that works there.

Review of a conventional Ceylon black tea

meatball sub and good Ceylon black tea; nice enough

I tried a standard, better Ceylon black tea (UVA from Malou tea, with another FB contact here), from the pricing sold as a medium grade tea.  The description was limited, mentioning fruitiness.  There was actually  a noticeable mint aspect, not so much in the range of fruit, but a little, and of course an underlying earthy-range context.  The astringency wasn't so intense, just adding some body and dryness, and the flavors were clean.  The overall effect was well balanced, so it seemed nice enough.  "Nice enough" may not be clear enough; good versions of any tea can't be taken for granted.  One could go years here without running across comparable versions of this type, standard as it may be according to some reckoning, so I did appreciate it.

Natural mint flavor in a tea is a bit unusual.  The other type I've tried with a related pronounced aspect is Ruby black tea from Taiwan.  Too much might really throw off the general effect of the tea, and I could imagine people either loving or hating it.  I'm in the middle; such a tea wouldn't be a favorite, and could come across as positive, but I'd just as soon pronounced fruit or floral aspects stood out, of course matching the tea type.  Different can be good, though, and no one would mistake this tea for a Taiwanese Ruby, so the novelty was nice.

The do-it-yourself aspect of this tea presentation could be a hurdle for some.  They provide a tea brewing in a device similar to a very small pitcher using an infuser basket element, and it's up to the customer to decide when to pour it out, and to manage not over-brewing the tea when only a third of it is going to fit in the cup they serve it with.  The idea seemed to be to taste it until it seemed ideal then set the basket aside, which really would work.  I let it keep brewing to try the tea over a range of strengths, because I'm inquisitive like that.  Although the basket barely makes contact with the water once two thirds of the tea has been drank (after two small cups) the last cup was still a bit "brisk."

The tea wasn't naturally overly astringent so it stood up well to being drank as light, medium, and strong-brewed versions.  Someone really into optimizing tea brewing might be a little freaked out by that (most tea enthusiasts), more into drinking the tea one best way.  Not all tea types work so well across a range, but this one did.  But then one could just use tasting as opposed to timing (proportion always varies, and the clock started on infusion back in the kitchen), and pull out that basket.  As during the last visit it seemed odd not re-brewing the leaves, essentially leaving behind half the potential of the tea.  That would be more upsetting for a better version of a tea, for the peony / bai mu dan style I tried that first time, for example.  This Ceylon black was nice but after the three small cups I was ok with stopping, even if the leaves weren't really done.

Per discussion with the tea-partner manager the tea-service approach is to keep it simple for customers, which I can completely relate to.  Once you bring out the clay pots and timers you might make someone already into all that happier but you can make a very nice pot of tea without such gear.  There is some allowance for teas of different styles working out differently, but it seems likely they've thought all this through, and aren't selling teas that would be likely to be particular.  An example might be a Dan Cong I tried recently, a tea version and general type that really needs gongfu style brewing--short infusions and a higher proportion of tea to water, more or less--to exhibit the better aspects.

Dry / loose tea sales

I bought the peony / bai mu dan tea I had tried during the earlier visit to take away, 50 grams of it.  The price was pretty fair, 375 baht for that much, just over $10.  The conventional black tea version would have been less, and for people into such teas maybe also a great value.  I really do like softer, fruitier, var. Sinensis versions of black teas better, or at least a different form of Assamica black tea style (see countless related posts, even though I'm more hung up on oolongs).  I should mention that this Ceylon peony is not something you see here in Bangkok; I don't think I ever have, in spite of putting time in at shops and cafes over some years.  There was a vendor importing only Ceylon teas at a recent tea Expo and although they had a nice selection of products it didn't include one.


Based on tea aspects alone I might just go with an upper-middle range Chinese version instead but factoring in the novelty I'm really looking forward to trying this tea a few more times.  It seemed the kind of tea that could change character based on adjusting brewing, but at the same time the kind of tea one couldn't easily ruin, so a nice tea to experiment with.

not the page I'm on, but they sell bottled tea blends

They were selling a broad range of plain teas and blends, so I might say a little more about that.  Typical plain tea examples include a Ceylon silver needle-style tea, a Thai oolong (lightly oxidized, of course), Longjing / Dragonwell (my favorite green tea, in general), and a few other conventional forms of Ceylon black tea, different grades / preparations.  For plain herbs I remember seeing chamomile, a lavendar / rose (plain in the sense of mixing two flower types), some variation of a blooming flower tea, and rooibus.  Blends included a rose black tea and mint tea blend (based on green tea, I think) that smelled exactly like toothpaste.


Is it coming across that this is me being positive about that selection?  Good versions of plain, single type and source tea are what people should be drinking, per my preference, and it's nice that the quality is there for the relatively standard price level.  It's also nice that other types of offerings related to different preferences are represented, the blends and such.


To help place this tea in relation to alternatives, I just gave 50 grams of a nice peony / Bai Mu Dan style tea (a Chinese version) to a monk for a gift, a Tea Village version I'd bought for some other reason, that had cost just over $10 (the same).  I've had that tea before, and it was probably a little sweeter and more floral versus this version.  The Ceylon fell in an earthier range, as I recall, but was still a pleasant, subtle tea, quite unique and interesting.  I hope that karma / merit process does work as directly as Thais tend to believe, and I'll be doing well on both ends, set up for karma and still drinking nice tea.

About the cafe

I've already touched on the cafe aspects in the last post but I'll say a little.  The food was also nice; I had a sloppy meatball sandwich--intentionally made that way; I'm not criticizing the sandwich for being messy--that would have been a good version of the same back in the US.  Salads my companions ordered looked good, and the deserts, and one other had a nice looking updated version of a burrito, quite common in some places but that doesn't come up much here.  Here in Bangkok "good Western food" is not so simple a range to pin down.  It's easy to pay a lot for food that one could make a much better version of at home, and I don't want to even get started on what some places do to Italian food.  Suffice it to say that it wouldn't be easy to make food this good, and it would be a tall order to make better; they're on it.

and they sell trendy furniture

The decor is interesting, sort of modern-industrial, with a sub-theme of being a furniture display and sales outlet.  The pricing is higher mid-range for Bangkok (500 baht lunch range; under $20, so normal for other countries, or even low, but here that seems like more).



All in all I'd recommend a visit, and ordering and carrying out some tea as well, although personal preferences factor into that.  They aren't carrying or selling the highest range Chinese teas but there is plenty of selection to choose from, and if you know what you are looking for some would stand out.  You didn't hear it from me but I've even heard the coffee is ok.

Luka Cafe in Sathorn, BKK, with a Ceylon Peony-style tea review

Trendy cafes aren't really my thing but they are quite common in Bangkok. This one, the Luka cafe, is near where I work, in Sathorn, which according to a local review of this cafe is becoming a more trendy area (perhaps a good thing).  Sathorn is a business district, mostly office buildings, with some embassies and businesses scattered in, so hard to say how trendy it could really get, but there have been nice restaurants around for awhile.  I guess cafes like this could be part of that transition, or in a different part of Sathorn I wrote about an art gallery, with at least one other gallery near that one--trendy enough.

coffee / tea bar area

The look is modern; large open spaces, exposed brick and concrete, with natural woods, rustic shelving holding traditional looking things, lots of windows for natural light, supplemented by indirect, natural-toned lighting, with a touch of neon for contrast.  It was so trendy that I had to fight an urge to walk right back out.  But for some this environment would feel like home, for Bangkok's "hi-so's."  It might as well be in Ekamai or Thong-lor.




I was torn between choosing a conventional black Ceylon that sounded nice and a white peony / bai mu dan style tea from Sri Lanka (still Ceylon, obviously, just the country name reference instead of the former colony name that stuck to teas from there), and finally I went with the white.


The tea arrived in a small infuser pitcher; functional enough.  Brewing that tea with boiling point water, as it came, wouldn't match most recommendations for the type but the tea should still be fine.  I tried it after about two minutes and it didn't taste like much yet but standard brewing technique--the Western style version--would entail a long soak, 4 to 5 minutes, although I expect most tea enthusiasts would stop on the shorter side.


Brewing by inner timer is fine for me, and of course I did have a phone on me,if I really wanted to go there, but I'm not usually concerned about optimizing teas.  This one might not turn out that well if the temperature, time, and proportion of tea to water are all a bit off though.

The review part

The tea is subtle.  It seemed brewed adequately,  between 4 and 5 minutes in, but it just didn't taste like much.  I don't usually use anything like infuser-structured gear and it seemed the limited contact of tea with water restricted the brewing process a little.  White teas can be subtle but this was really a bit too subtle, but nice all the same.  The effect was like a very mild black tea, at least the flavor profile that did come across was, earthy, with a little mineral, even a hint of copper, which sort of worked.


The design of the infuser didn't really let it keep steeping, at least not much, but it was slightly stronger for the second cup, the second half of the liquid initially poured into the device, left to sit with minimal contact with the tea.  This I liked more.  Somehow the white tea I'd had with breakfast seemed better, a much more forward and fruity white tea from Nepal, but I could see this tea growing on me if I had time to mess with it, dial in making it properly.

The feel of the tea had picked up, in addition to gaining some flavor profile, with the light astringency coming across as dryness, not completely unlike that white tea from Nepal but coupled with a completely different flavor profile.  It was a real shame to not brew it again and see what it had left, but I'd expect more of the same, another nearly identical infusion.  At least it didn't seem likely to transition anyway, or that it would've been close to spent.


In general peony / bai mu dan style teas tend to come across this way to me, a bit subtle at first, almost too wispy, but once you get used to the flavors not hitting you over the head the complexity and balance and mix of fruit and earthy tones is really appealing.  This version was inclined more towards earthy tones, with a bit of mineral, opposed to the more fruit-oriented Chinese versions of the general type that I've tried, perfect for a Sri Lankan tea.

a nice snack-sized lunch

The croissant sandwich I had with it was basic but pretty much perfect.  It was even better than I would prepare myself--just a bit odd to even be thinking that--since finding good versions of croissant, cheese, and bacon isn't a given here, although possible.  It also takes a degree of attention to get those basic ingredients to come out perfectly; cook the bacon or egg just a little too much or too little and it's still ok but it really loses something, falling short of the optimum.


So it goes with trendy cafes,  it seems.  Along with the pleasant light-jazz influenced contemporary music background, and good indirect lighting, it's all very comfortable, especially if one is into such environments.  By the end of the stay I was into it.

copper cups; cool enough

I looked around those rustic shelves a little, at the interesting items, and upstairs, and it seemed a lot like a trendy furniture showroom.  I don't mean that the decor was so consistently themed that it could be a showroom; it really didn't seem intended for actual seating.  It looked instead as if they were selling the furniture and the rest, and the space was just to show them, but I'm not sure about all that.

like a large studio apartment den

Research section

Some looking around related to what the tea was made for interesting reading.  A few different, apparently completely separate tea outlets were using the name "Atelier."  Google informs us that the word means "a workshop or studio, especially one used by an artist or designer," which does go with the aesthetic.  Let's go back to that BK Magazine description, since I wouldn't be able to go beyond describing what the place actually looks like:

Just like the other Casa Pagoda shops, this location's decor is meant to look like the edgy Provence villa of a couple of urban weekenders: a mix of 1900s bistro paraphernalia, distressed tufted leather couches, and vintage-looking seats upholstered in salvaged fabrics. It all basks in plenty of light, befitting Luka's menu. 

Bellocq Tea Atelier, Brooklyn, NY shop

That is just what I was going to say!  Apparently the food design has a nice background history as well, but I'll stick to the tea here.  Before I go into it's origins, I'll mention another, apparently completely unrelated "Atelier" tea reference is found in a Tea For Me Please review of Bellocq Tea Atelier in New York (in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, NYC, to be more precise).


One could make comparisons to that Bangkok cafe and draw some conclusions but I won't.  There seems to be no direct connection, aside from the designation "Atelier," although I can't really exclude the potential for some relation.

that tea, Ebony Springs / Tea Atelier Ceylon Peony

The tea is from this vendor instead, or at least that's an online channel to buy it (an "Onner App" version of a store), not really a source reference.  There seems to be no vendor website but this is their instagram page, which seems to be advertising for a shop called The Selected, in Siam Center.  They mention sourcing the tea originally from a craft-theme vendor, Ebony Springs, who also doesn't sell teas online, but they do show a picture of this tea in that link.



That original source sounds interesting, a retreat / home-stay themed destination in Sri Lanka, where the natural setting and tea making are both part of the draw, like a trendy, craft-tea-production oriented version of eco-tourism.



So there really are no online descriptions of the tea, beyond describing a "unique aroma that gives a comfort feeling" in a picture caption, a bit of a throw-away.  It might be convenient to walk into one of those places to buy it, and hear a bit more there, unless someone isn't in Bangkok.  If not there was that online outlet, no old-style shopping-cart format site, mind you, a trendy app-based version.

Traditional Thai tea at the Bridge Cafe and Art Space in Bangkok

 

It tastes like Thai tea. I'm not sure what that's coming from or how to describe it. This one wasn't from a powder, as they sometimes are.  The server in the gallery brewed it from well chopped loose tea in an espresso machine, so it was a real frothed iced latte. I would expect a little astringency, even with milk and sugar, but it has none. And I'm also not sure why it's orange.  The tea was served iced, of course; I've never heard of anyone drinking a hot version.

 

 

Maybe the distinctive taste is in my mind, assumed from the color, but I don't think so.  It should be some herb but it's nothing I can identify.  I think the powdered versions would usually be a lot stronger and sweeter, and the Thai tea bag versions more typical of black tea (the kind brewed in a strainer that looks like a small version of a weather sock), with astringency showing through milk and sugar no matter how sweet it was.

 

 

 

first floor, from the second floor

 

Seems I should be able to say something.  It was good.  If that taste is from an extra herb it's subtle. The Bridge art gallery in Sathorn (Bangkok) that I had the tea in is nice; lots of space here.  The current artwork is abstract, by a local Thai artist, a younger woman, but with a gallery show resume posted about her work on the one wall, so not new to creating art.  I guess I liked it, the art, not really one of my things though.  Tea is, hence this blog.

 

 

They also serve a tea-bag version of tea from England, Clipper brand.  It's likely a little better than what grocery stores are stocking here, on par with the tea in better hotels, but then I'd have to try it to know.  Eventually I should give them some loose tea to get them thinking along that line.  It's really too cool a place for tea-bag tea; even Thai oolong would fall short.

 

 

About the gallery

 

art!  Kanjana Chonsiri's SHINE, until 4 Sep 2015 (so you missed it)

 

 

The gallery covers a number of different levels, separate floors, so lots of space.  This artist had around twenty pieces displayed to fill the space, a number of them very large, but the gallery could hold a lot of art.  The space is strange, broken into small, odd-shaped rooms on different levels, with a bar of some sort on the roof-top that was closed.  I liked it. 

 

 

 

There was unfamiliar, interesting music playing on a good sound system while I was in there, perhaps not that unusual a thing, but great for a nice background vibe.  The woman working there was really nice, one of the owners.  She was shy about being photographed for this post, so her input was limited to talking about the gallery, and tea, and the local landmark nearby (her English was quite good).

 

 

 

 

Sathorn Unique "ghost tower"

 

It's not really part of the gallery but there is a large abandoned tower right beside it, almost standing over it.  Bangkok is strange for having a lot of abandoned, mostly finished buildings around  It looks like the whole structure was completed in that one, as if they were so close to finishing it, but apparently bankruptcy laws aren't set up effectively for recovering that progress in the cases when the money just runs out. 

 

 

There are different blogs and article posts claiming you can enter and climb the stairs inside to get a really unique look at this part of the city but they're inconsistent about how that works, if it's really open to the public or if some version of paying off a security guard is involved.  Here is a newspaper article with background on the tower, with a video section included, and also a blog post version about going up in it, a bit more colorful.  It doesn't sound safe to visit; surely part of the appeal.

 

 

Thai tea research

 

The references to the traditional version of this type of tea aren't consistent.  Almost all claim the color relates to food coloring, with limited speculation about a historical version that might have somehow been orange without it.  There's no consensus for ingredients but most claim either Ceylon or Assam tea is typically used, along with condensed milk and a good bit of sugar, and maybe other herbs.  Orange blossom and crushed tamarind seeds seem to be potential traditional additions, and other versions reference possibly adding anise, cloves, or cardamom (so masala chai without the ginger, essentially). 

 

Here is one "how-to" article describing that, and how to make the tea, and a blog post that is essentially the same content (but you never know, maybe a slight variation would help fine-tune how it turns out).

 

 

 

I couldn't say if that tea really did taste a little like orange blossom or tamarind seed; as far as I know I've never tried either.  They sound great; I'll keep my eyes open for them.  It looked a good bit like a normal CTC / machine processed tea, maybe just a little more like a rough ground sawdust than tea usually does, so there could've been something else in it.  Or maybe just more sticks than I'm used to, which wouldn't always be so negative, sort of a hojicha twist to a Thai tea.

 

 

The related Wikipedia article includes another interesting reference to tea type used:

 

 

However, due to Ceylon tea's high price, a locally grown landrace (traditional or semi-wild) version of Assam known as Bai Miang (ใบเมี่ยง)^[1] with added food coloring is commonly used. Other ingredients may include added orange blossom water, star anise, crushed tamarind seed or red and yellow food coloring, and sometimes other spices as well.

 

 

The source cited by that article fills in a bit more about that tea type, along with explaining the standard distinction between the two general plant types, which I've left out here (the other is Chinese tea, camellia sinensis var. sinensis, versus var. assamica, more commonly grown in India):

 

 

The Assam variety is also called landrace, wild, or Miang tea.  Leaves of the Assam tea are larger than those of the Chinese variety.  Assam can also grow readily in the shade provided by forest.

 

 

So again the new part is that this tea plant might somehow be "semi-wild."  That would be great, to go hiking in the jungle and pick some, as with blackberries back in the States, or strawberry guava on ridgeline hikes in Hawaii (which are amazing, by the way).  That article goes on to talk about all the types of teas produced in Thailand, and cite import and export quantities, consumption per capita, etc., which I guess could be of interest to some.  It claims Thais consume .09 kilograms of tea per person per year (published in 2009; maybe they've stepped that up), which is not very much tea, just shy of 100 grams.  I drink that in a couple weeks.

 

One curious part of that passage talks about making "Miang," clearly referring to a food dish made from tea, not a drink.  One gets used to words being used in different ways here, not so different than in English speaking countries, but it makes more sense when you don't notice it happening.

 

 

Miang has a tart to sour taste.  Miang  is mainly consumed in the north of Thailand.  It is eaten as a snack during work for alertness.

 

 

Sounds like lahpet, pickled tea from Myanmar, right?  Must be related, but no need to dwell on that since this part is all just a tangent.

 

 

I'm happy to have had a positive experience with traditional Thai tea, and the gallery part was really nice.  Maybe on to bubble tea next time.