Pu'er-like teas in South East Asia

First published by TChing in three parts (here, here, and here).

I tend to talk about teas version by version, or maybe source by source, or at most type by type.  A question came up in a tea group (in the Facebook Pu'er Tea Club) about trying versions equivalent to Yunnan pu'er from South East Asia (so not pu'er, since that's a regional tea name).

In response I mentioned a number of sources, which works as an introduction to what the teas are.  I'll reference the general feedback there and what those sources sell, which will outline what is out there too (most of it; the range is quite broad).


The different versions vary a lot. Not all the styles are exactly the same as in Yunnan, and of course those vary a lot too, just in a different sense. Some versions can be just as similar to green or white teas, depending on the source. For all the ones I just mentioned the general style would tend to be familiar, quite continuous with the Yunnan processing and style conventions. 

It's hard to separate local character from processing variations, especially given that context. It had seemed to me that Myanmar sheng were very bitter, in general, but I just tried a 2018 sheng version that wasn't, necessarily, from Kokang. Compared to a Yiwu maybe it was but I mean it was quite drinkable and well-balanced for a young tea. More "local" sourced shu varies quite a bit. I've had great luck with Myanmar and Thai versions, and less with what I've tried from Vietnam [related to shu; sheng versions were generally quite pleasant], and less shu comes out of Laos.

It's a bit much to cite all those vendors but who they are and what they sell tells the story.


Hatvala, in Vietnam:  one of my favorite vendors for selling an interesting range of different local teas at a good value.  Vietnamese sheng is something of an anomaly, but really the tea traditions in this region extend back to well prior to when modern country divisions were settled where they are now.  Vietnamese versions vary but they're similar to Yunnan pu'er and in general a good value, from the right sources.  I have reviewed versions of their sheng but citing a description of one I've not tried might give some insight about the sources and into how unique those can be:


...from Y Ti in Lao Cai province. Produced in a Red Dao community where families live either side of the Vietnam/ China border which is separated by a simple stream here. This is another complex tea with a broad range of flavours – green plum, raisin, moss, stone, floral, mild spice and dried hay – that take turns to explode in the mouth. Pleasing bitterness and a very long sweet aftertaste make Forest Genie an extremely refreshing tea.

a Hatvala and local Hanoi shop sheng

That's marketing content, of course, but it adds depth to how flavor range can vary a lot in teas from vastly different sources.  That "Dao" reference relates to an indigenous people who live throughout the region, including in China.  I'm mixing themes a bit here but this Farmerleaf (Yunnan source) video about a Laos development project sheds more light on how local producers in SE Asia aren't necessarily as well organized and compensated as Yunnan pu'er producers.  This NGO reference covers more about that from a non-commercial perspective; the images communicated alone make that worth a look.

credit the Comite de Cooperation avec le Laos site

Tea Side, Thailand:  this is the main source for well above average Thai tea versions, selling a much broader range of sheng and shu than I've encountered across all the rest of all sources (and Myanmar versions, just not as many).  Again Thai versions can be distinctive but aren't necessarily uniformly different than those from Yunnan.  I own what's left of a 2006 sheng cake from Tea Side; Hong Tai Chang was an old Chinese producer who processed local Thai teas some time ago.  They're also working on small-batch shu production (well along with that, since 2013 per this 2017 article on the subject), and their newest sheng product line expanded a lot, so production of that must have changed recently too.

on Tea Side producing small-batch shu pu'er (photo credit and article)

Lamphang Tea, Thailand:  a real exception, a very small local producer.  There are actually a lot of these sources through Facebook pages, especially out of Vietnam, since tea culture and production is more mainstream there.  Such teas would less often be compressed, but this vendor does sell versions as tuochas.  Lamphang isn't in the remote North, where the older trees would tend to be found, so I'm not clear on how a producer from there makes sense, but the tea is nice.

Lampang sheng tuochas (credit their page)

Kokang, Myanmar "pu'er":  I just met this producer at a Bangkok expo, and reviewed the sheng and shu.  It's quite good.  The first two blog posts that turn up from searching that location are about a version a tea-expert contact passed on (Olivier Schneider), and a 2006 version I bought this year from Chawang Shop.  The 2017 shu and 2018 sheng I just tried are clearly well-processed teas made from good material, distinctive for expressing local character, but not quite as bitter as prior sheng versions have seemed.

meeting the Kokang producer at a Bangkok expo (description and review)

Kinnari Tea, Laos:  I love Laos teas.  This producer is a friend, and another friend and tea enthusiast travels in Laos passing on interesting versions that he turns up (Somnuc).  As with Vietnamese versions styles and quality levels vary a lot but also common to there the best examples can be distinctive and very pleasant, giving up nothing to Yunnan teas.  Kinnari isn't selling direct retail at this point (except for a new kombucha RTD venture) but reaching out to her online might work, instead of taking a flight to Vientiane to pressure her to sell some directly.  I just met Anna a few days ago; this first post is a start on reviewing some very interesting Laos versions from them in the next couple of weeks.

a small sheng cake Anna of Kinnari Tea passed on

I mentioned three other sources in those discussion comments, about buying a nice sheng from a Hanoi shop online, Hein Minh (old-tree slightly aged versions), about Farmerleaf (as I'd just mentioned), and about Moychay, a Russian vendor, selling really good Myanmar shu.  Options are around.  In an odd twist I tried Laos tea from another Russian producer in a tasting in Moscow once, but Laos Tea isn't so broadly available that it would be likely to turn up.

Laos Tea tasting in Moscow (with a rare Laos shu review here)

Black and green tea are produced in those countries too, and oolongs, even white teas; sheng and shu are just the page I've been on for around two years now.  It might seem like I would have SE Asian options somewhat sorted out but I'm not so sure; quite likely sources and types completely new to me will keep coming up.  I've heard of local Taiwanese sheng recently, and bamboo pu'er coming out of Laos (a version of falap, which is also produced in Yunnan), and sheng cakes from Assam (just outside the edge of SE Asia, really).

It's a shame that very few Thais know these teas are out there, or appreciate better quality teas of any type, but I'm working on that.

Some intermediate level ideas about tea

First published in Tching here


Related to the social media theme, I tend to like to talk in places where people are newer to tea, because I can help people more there.  The “expert” groups are nice for a different kind of reference and discussion.  Even in those places it often works out that a newcomer who really isn’t very far along the experience curve can help prompt really good discussion with questions.

Here I’d like to explore some ideas from a middle-ground, the kinds of things people pretty far through a learning curve probably took years to become clear on.  Of course in some cases even “the basics” relate to potential differences of opinion, so to be clear this is all just my take.  This moderate length writing format doesn’t allow enough room for full context discussion and treating exceptional cases or opposing views.

Brewing temperature:  

Really a 1000 word post couldn’t do this subject justice, but I want to quickly map out a few ideas.  Those brewing temperature tables aren’t wrong, as a starting point guide, even though their suggestions vary quite a bit.  It’s also not wrong that essentially all teas should be brewed Gong Fu style using boiling point water (or just below it), and short infusions, even for green teas, for some.  But the two contradict.  Preference variation is part of that, but some people claim that using anything but boiling point water for good oolongs is doing it wrong. 

There seems to be a natural progression towards using Gong Fu brewing more once you get familiar with it, and it works a lot better with higher quality teas to use very hot water than it does with lower quality versions.  That sketch doesn’t resolve all the contradictions but it maps out some main themes that lead to some of them.  Really for people who feel they represent a more authentic Chinese tea preparation tradition what “Gong Fu” brewing really is wouldn’t be a simple subject, but a lot of people just use that as a reference to using a different proportion of tea to water, more infusions, and a different teaware device (gaiwan or clay pot, typically).

A recent Liu Bao tasting; Gongfu style brewing can be nice for comparison tasting

Tea exploration, vertical versus horizontal:  

Of course this one really is a matter of preference.  I just talked to a vendor who prefers to stick mostly within the scope of Taiwanese teas even for personal consumption, and that’s fine, very reasonable.  For me it works well to adopt an organic approach, to get to whatever comes next naturally, whether that relates to exploring better quality teas within a limited range or being all over the map.  Or not exploring much at all is still a valid judgement call.  Advocating exploration of what else is out there as an option might bring up an implied “tea snob” context, since there’s really nothing wrong with someone mostly drinking blends, or Harney and Sons-level “pretty good” teas.  Sticking to tea bag teas is pushing it; that’s like someone with a coffee interest only drinking instant.  Up to them, but why?

Trà chít, a Vietnamese example of a rare Chinese version of sheng pu’er 

Appreciating flavor versus mouthfeel, aftertaste, and “cha qi,” drug-like effect:  

Rhat’s already most of what I want to express, that over time people tend to expand what they like about teas.  To me it’s not that I want a tea to have a certain mouth-feel, for example, more that the way varying types of aspects balance can be nice, or not work well.

Varying exposure; South East Asian teas:  

Off the broad themes here, it’s worth considering exploring tea types and sources outside China, Taiwan, Japan, and India.  Not that anyone could ever really “get to” all the tea types in China, or even do justice to just sheng pu’er or wuyi yancha.  The “generalist” approach is kind of assumed then. 

To me it’s interesting trying something new, versus only enjoying ever-improving close variations of past experiences.  Trying teas from less traditional source regions gets you that, even though they are harder to turn up.  There are significant other challenges, like most of the mass-produced oolong coming out of Thailand not being very good (relatively).  And the rarer teas out of Vietnam are all but impossible to even hear about, never mind buy.  Teas from Indonesia, Laos, and Myanmar just aren’t widely available either.  Exploring versions from Nepal might be easier, but then finding others that are hard to find could make for an interesting endeavor.  One good lead for hearing about what’s out there, in detail, is my own blog, Tea in the Ancient World [here].  It’s crazy what has turned up in the past year.

Forest-sourced tea, an NGO project in Laos (photo credit and details, CCL web page)

Tea group themes:  

I touched on this specifically not so long ago so I’ll keep this short. No matter what page you are on there’s a tea group out there that will be a close enough match.  There’s no need to lose hope because some seem too snobby and others aren’t into even hearing about single type loose tea.  Put another way, tea perspective and culture seems to bunch up at those two extremes.

Keeping pace with others in tea exploration:  don’t even try.  The interest is yours, and trying to achieve some benchmark for getting through a certain range of knowledge or experience, or owning a “normal” amount of gear, might only ruin it.  If leaning into those or other pursuits is a good match for you then go for it, or even if making it a competition is.  To me the core of experiencing tea is liking what’s in your cup at the present moment, and all the rest of the context and framing is secondary.  Then again I never really was into “finding my tribe,” related to anything I did.

Functional tea preparation doesn’t require a lot of equipment

Over and over I hear humble-bragging about how “I’m not really a tea snob, but I do own or have tried (whatever it is, often a list).”  A photo alone can imply all that, or a statement like “it’s crazy how many types I’ve tried.”  There are groups for that, circles in which owning tea gear, or tea collections, or rare teas (or all of that) is the norm.  Or I suppose also places where knowing a lot about processing, local Asian cultures, history, or tea genetics is valued, but at some point the themes do run out of enough shared interest level to collect members into a group.

The nice part about a tea interest is that people can make of it what they want.