Lung Phin and Bo Duot Vietnamese Ha Giang sheng

Lung Phin sheng left, Bo Duot right

the actual spelling (accent included)

Lung Phin sample

Bo Duot sample

I've been really lucky to be able to try a broad range of very interesting teas lately.  I've been through a lot of local, diverse versions of sheng from Vietnam earlier this year, after exploring some from Thailand and Myanmar, then lately onto Laos versions, now back to more from Vietnam.

These teas are from Hatvala, samples sent by one owner, Geoff, for me to try.  Many thanks!  A lot of times vendors sharing tea doesn't necessarily relate to a marketing function, as in this case.  Per discussion one of these teas might be sold later, and one probably never was a good source option related to that.

Why wouldn't they sell them, one might wonder?  They need to be able to source reasonable amounts of consistent products, and per my understanding that can be a limitation from these types of local teas.  They can vary a lot batch to batch, or volume produced can be quite limited.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, from a consumer perspective, since slight variations in tea types harvested and processing methodology could be interesting.  But it wouldn't work as well for selling a single branded tea type.  They do already sell one very pleasant Vietnamese version of sheng, but these two and one other sent are from two other provinces in Vietnam.

Laos "young" Phongsaly area sheng for comparison

Somnuc shared the last set of interesting teas (Laos sheng), with the last one mentioned in this post, and one I liked better reviewed here.  I should get a chance to meet Somnuc passing through Bangkok this week.  Anna of Kinnari Tea also just visited; it's been an interesting week.  She has provided lots of novel and very good teas in the past, the best of what I've tried from Laos, although I didn't get that far through Somnuc's set to place them.  Anna dropped off lots more too, and told cool stories about visiting remote places in Laos, about difference in tea plant types, economic development, processing variations, and so on.


It seems like all the networking and talking online is starting to pay off, not that it hasn't been.  Noppadol, a local vendor selling teas that typically don't make it out of Northern Thailand, helped with sharing teas from there (mostly from the Lamphang area) and from Myanmar earlier.  Huyen--the best kind of tea enthusiast, so genuine and positive--visited here in Bangkok before and shared some from Vietnam.

Lamphang (Thai) sheng left, Myamar sheng right (reviewed here)

It helps that Bangkok is a South East Asia crossroads, that people tend to go through here to get to those other countries.  Narendra, that small producer in Nepal, working on a new processing model, just sent some tea with an acquaintance visiting here for a convention.  Next year I hope to get out more too, with some related development to follow.  Onto actually talking about these teas.

Review

These Vietnam sheng teas are going to be amazing.  The dry tea scent hints at that but the scent of wet leaves after the rinse step makes it clear.  I could write a review just of the wet leaf smell, of how complex and varied they both are, but I'll pick this up with the first infusion instead.

Something interesting did stand out in the Bo Duot version wet leaf scent (which is not actually the right spelling; I'd need to find a version of both to copy to here adding the diacritics, the accent marks).  It's complex, warm and sweet, but one part smells a little like dill, maybe even with a hint of sourness matching how pickles end up.  The tea seems like it'll be great, even though "sour" isn't a positive start for description.

I infused both just over 10 seconds, and will probably be going with pretty fast infusions even though the proportion is moderate, just normal for sheng.

It's odd that I never cite weight estimates, isn't it?  I started brewing loose tea by eye, guessing out the amounts, the better part of a decade ago (or it might've even been 10 years now; I've been here for 11), and it always seemed unnatural to go back and put weights to that, or adjust the form of control.  I'd been drinking a lot of tea by the time I would've made it to that step, which is not how that usually works, so in the end I just passed on it altogether.

Lung Phin left, Bo Duot right (still very light)

Lung Phin:  a very interesting tea, very pleasant, but a bit unusual.  The character is a little closer to green tea than sheng typically seems, more in the "snow tea" range.  That's nothing like conventional green tea, although it does share just a little aspect range with green teas that would be conventional in Vietnam, the Thai Nguyen area versions.  It's mineral intensive; that stands out the most.  There's some bitterness, not a lot for sheng aspects balance, but plenty related to how other tea types work out.

There's more vegetal range than sheng typically has, the tie-in with green tea style I mentioned.  It's mostly towards green bell pepper, but it could probably be unpacked as a lot more complex than that.  The mineral range alone is complex.  It's more a dry mineral type, like limestone, but with depth to it, and it may even trail into a hint of smoke (which is hard to pick up, and really more a judgment than an objective read; it leads into that, it seems to me).  I'll add more and get into feel and aftertaste in later rounds.  It's a complex tea so there will be a lot more to add.


Bo Duot:  the flavor for this is quite different, mineral intensive as well, but much warmer, in a different range.  This was the tea I was saying smelled more like an herb with some sourness, dill, but it's not sour or even bitter, as sheng goes.  It's complex too but across a different scope, and a bit warmer and smoother at this early stage.  One interesting aspect is slightly savory, which one might describe as a hint of sun-dried tomato.  I don't need to say that seems positive, do I?  It would depend on how it worked with the rest.  The warmth and other range is hard to pin down since it's still developing but it reminds me of the effect of incense herbs, frankincense and myrrh.

I know some local hippies in Thailand; I should get into scent-testing those incense inputs for review training.  "Tea people" often tend to lay off the incense since even moderately strong foods can alter your palate, never mind burning strong smelling herbs.

Second infusion

Lung Phin:  again great complexity.  The tea has transitioned some, opened up a bit, but it wasn't slow to start.  This really isn't so far off teas I've tried presented as "snow tea;" it could be one of them.  It has a bit more dry mineral than those tend to, and the vegetal range is backed off a little, so it's not clearly a green tea (or not clearly a sheng, but I'd peg it as a sheng).

Expectations factor into how people take teas.  For a lot of sheng drinkers I'd expect that range to not work well, just because they aren't used to it, more than because it's too close to green tea character.  This is more bitter than the other, but then the second may have taken a round to infuse as strong as it's going to, to get started.

The mouthfeel is pleasant; it has some structure to it.  And the aftertaste lingers, especially that bitterness, trailing into a sweet effect.  It helps it all that it's so clean in effect.  Vegetal range can seem odd if it doesn't work, if it goes too far towards a type of woody tone that doesn't balance well, for example.  Wood does inform part of the base flavor context, along with a lighter balance of green bell pepper in this round.  It comes across as tree-bud to me, that biting, bitter, complex and fragrant character.


Bo Duot:  again this tea version is much warmer and softer.  Mineral also stands out but a different version, not the dry limestone-flint range in the Lung Pin version but an earthier dark clay / rusted iron pipe / artesian well version instead.  It's interesting the way that warm mineral trails over into a mild spice, not cinnamon or the other standard cooking spice range, again an aromatic incense-type version (which I can't place).

It seems a bit more subdued, not quite as intense in effect as the other, but something like the bitterness being limited to none in this might swing the effect a lot.  Other flavor intensity seems milder too though.  I'll wait until the next round to try to break down flavor aspects further; this might develop a bit more then.

Third infusion

Lung Phin:  I brewed these quite fast this round, around 5 seconds, which may work better for this first version than the second.  It is much nicer, probably related to being so light, and also to natural transition being positive.  Intensity is just fine, right at optimum.  Mineral is still pronounced.  The vegetal range had already transitioned more to green wood in the last round, and it's moving on a little from there in this.

There's a faint sweet aspect that gives it an interesting complexity.  Sweetness comes across as a certain level in teas, as bitterness does, or umami, but it can tie to a flavor that somehow seems to connect.  It's picking up a mild fruit range.  It's not too far from dried mango but not quite that, or that could work given how many kinds of mango there are, with how much that description actually varies.  It's very positive the way the different aspects fall together in this.


Bo Duot:  this didn't lose any intensity at all for being brewed fast, and may have even gained some.  Warm mineral still stands out as most pronounced but this tea is transitioning too.  The feel changed too; it's more structured, a bit dry in effect.  That hint of sundried tomato still gives it a nice overall balance, a touch of umami along with other warm and very different vegetable range.  It's also a little towards how a very well roasted red bell pepper comes across, how those are sweet and rich, nothing like other pepper range.

As far as interpreting these flavors go I wouldn't be surprised if someone else landed on a completely different list.  It's natural to expect floral range, for example, and then one ends up mapping these same attributes to different ranges of flowers instead.  The warmth in this would be most similar to sun-flower, maybe.  The other tea aspects might be more like a flower that's light, bright, and a bit sharp in a limited sense, or maybe just daisy, mapping onto only a limited range of what is there, possibly including a touch of stem.  I'll try that next round, free-associating to see if these aspects can remind me of other ranges than what I would naturally connect first (here more mineral and sun-dried tomato so far).

Fourth infusion

Lung Phin left, Bo Duot right

Lung Phin:  the character changed quite a bit due to using a longer infusion time, relating to snapping a picture of the teas while infusing.  Time passes quickly; that makes for a longer than 10 second infusion time.  Bitterness stands out more again.  This tea is well-suited to using very fast infusion times; the flavor intensity and other aspect range is ideal, more than strong enough, when brewed very quickly.  It's still nice though.

Lotus flower growing at the house

As for mapping this to floral range, or trying to, it occurs to me that a limited awareness of flower scents might actually change how I interpret teas.  I think it is floral; that part works, but as to what flower I don't know.  Maybe lotus.  If lotus is completely unfamiliar it's like a sweet, rich version of orchid, unless I've got that completely wrong.


It's quite pleasant in overall effect; that part is also hard to describe.  Tolerance for bitterness, or even appreciation for it, would have to go along with that take, but to me the aspects balance nicely.  This jumps ahead to the part about interpretation I was going to put at the end, but in discussing what I like in sheng with someone I recently said I can't describe how the overall balance "clicking" for me is a main factor.  It all works really well together or else it doesn't.  I can't help but wonder if I'm not overlooking supporting aspect range as primary factors in that judgement, for example if I'm not missing how much mouth-feel plays a role in overall effect (just an example, but it is possible).

Bo Duot:  this tea probably isn't that different than last round, although it's a bit stronger than optimum too, brewed just over 10 seconds to allow time for taking a picture.  It comes across as drier prepared this way, and softer just a little lighter.  For guessing about floral range (interpreting what's there as that) it might be warm and earthy, like sunflower, and then also sweeter, more fragrant, like rose.

Fifth infusion

These teas will keep brewing tea and transitioning, to some extent, but in the interest of keeping this post length moderate I'll leave off notes after this round.  I went back to a faster infusion and the balance is much better for the Lung Phin tea.  That sweet, mostly floral tone character really works well.  Bitterness drops back to very mild when brewed quite lightly but the flavor is still intense.  It never did transition so that the trace of dried mango fruit was stronger than the floral range but there is some complexity to the flavor, beyond a substantial mineral layer grounding it all.

The Bo Duot is actually lighter than optimum this round, a bit too thin.  Even for that the feel isn't thin and the sweetness in the aftertaste is substantial.  It has been interesting the way the bright, dryer intensity of the Lung Phin contrasts with the warmer richness of this Bo Duot version.  Sometimes tasting teas that vary just gets confusing but in this case the degree of style overlap and contrast seemed to make for a nice pairing.  I guess drinking a lot of pairs of varied teas probably helped with that.

Placing the styles related to other Laos and Yunnan sheng

It's easy to just say "every tea is different," and that catches a lot of what really is going on.  The broad patterns in aspects do map onto input differences and tea style themes, in some general sense, but even if someone had a great feel for all that discussing it might still muddy the waters as much as crystallize into meaningful trends.

I get it why the most experienced sheng drinkers don't add much at all to discussion about such inputs and patterns.  Instead they might just answer narrower scope questions to help people, show off some pictures, or criticize others for being wrong about something (pu'er discussion circles can be a bit nastier than most, for some reason).

It's hard to say how these compare to the Laos teas I've been drinking, never mind reaching across to the broad range of Yunnan styles, regional input effects, quality level differences, commercial teas versus small-producer commissioned versions, and so on.  There's a divide between more traditionally produced sheng and  modern styles made to be approachable right away that's very difficult to define (that I wrote about here, related to the misnomer "oolong pu'er"), never mind mapping to trends further.

Local, regional teas vary based on all the same inputs as others; terroir related (growing conditions, climate), related to plant types varying, and across a broad range of processing differences.  More wild-growth or combined plant type farming seems to lead to a softer, earthier, at times fruit or spice ranged more flavorful style, that's more mellow (less bitter and astringent) in character.  Of course for every clearly defined, narrowly stated generality there are exceptions.  I most recently reviewed an old-plant sourced Laos sheng (that was probably wild-grown) and it was really mineral intensive in flavor instead, not astringent, but also not complex in flavor in that particular way.

I was just discussing some of this with Geoff, the Hatvala owner, in particular mentioning that I think these local South-East Asian teas should get more attention and appreciation.  He mentioned this about one terrain input:


It is curious as to what factors most influence final character.  The processing is relatively simple but that doesn’t mean to say it is unimportant and taking correct care and making judgement on when,  where and how long to dry would be crucial.  As for the leaf material, differences will naturally come from age of tree, location and soil.  If there was to be a tea heavy in minerals it would be Lung Phin as it is a very rocky limestone environment.  Ha Giang sits on two geological plates with the eastern part being very different from the west.


That echoes the notes description about varying mineral input in an interesting way, doesn't it?  And for me makes me want to get out more, to see some of Northern Vietnam.

Ha Giang region photo (not necessarily where either is from), credit Hatvala

processing tea by hand (credit Hatvala blog site)

I think people focusing on demanding what is most in demand, limiting development of exploration of teas to what is most common--or even to what costs more, in some cases--misses a lot.  There is something to that though.  There are reasons for why people tend to move in parallel directions for later, more developed preferences.

There's also something to be said for diversity.  For people newer to sheng (or tea in general) a more horizontal approach to trying more broad types versus trying to try what is seen as best makes lots of sense to me.  Trying a lot of versions of Yunnan factory sheng isn't what I mean; those could just continue to taste bitter, or woody, or in worse cases like kerosene or dipping snuff.

There just aren't many mainstream options to try teas like these, or other related regional versions.  It's coming though; the word is getting out, and the world is getting smaller.  I feel like nothing I ever say really communicates what these teas are like (but then experiential subjects are like that in general), with this quote from Hatvala's blog page section filling in how that works out:


Old trees with deep roots and slow growth give these wild mountain teas their special character which can be very different to farm grown equivalents. A wild tea may not have the same intensity from the first steep but it will continue to develop, have greater depth and complexity and deliver flavour for longer.

Wild teas can be an acquired taste but when you have discovered a good one there can be no going back.