Thai tea expo / function in Bangkok Central Embassy

 

I checked out a local Thai tea event at one of many Bangkok malls, at Central Embassy, at the Open House area on the 6th floor.  It's the first such function I've ever been to in Thailand, beyond there being a few tea related booths at coffee and tea related events.  It was nice.

A series of special presentations is one part of that; a tea expert of some sort was presenting about Gongfu brewing and aged Shui Xian, it seemed.  I didn't catch that much of that; the point is pointing out that it extends beyond sales booths.  For people considering visiting they may want to check out that schedule and get in there; it all only runs for another 6 days.  There is also plenty to see and experience from the vendor booths.

The sales booths were fine, representing a broader range of tea vending than one might ordinarily hear of.  They were split between producer booths and other types of vendors, cafes and such.  I talked to the Taetea booth staff, to Emerald Thai Tea (a local producer who make different kinds, including some older plant pu'er), and to another specialty producer who makes a lot of types of teas in the North (Sawan Bondin).  I tried some teas at all three booths; that's a nice part of such an event, that people hosting sales booths are happy to share small cups of tea and talk about the products and background.

An old tea friend had a display there, Danitha / Pop of Chai Jin, a Japanese tea sales and ceremonial brewing themed place.  Zhennan is a familiar local cafe that had a booth, but I missed them being at the booth when I went by.  There were others; Pop was talking to another small shop owner who I've met before, Eastern Tea Concept, that I also said hi to.

So what would be the best draw there for people who are really into tea, or just curious to explore further?  Probably mostly just seeing the range, in case some of it really matches your own interest, and then you could buy some tea from them.  Being able to try the teas makes all the difference.  

It would be nice to support local Thai companies promoting better quality specialty tea.  My tea budget is deep in the red related to my family living in a high cost of living city on a Thai salary, in Honolulu, and I've spent more than normally allocate on Vietnamese teas recently, so my own tea spending is severely limited just now.  It was still nice meeting and talking to people.

I was asking one Thai producer and vendor about how sales would go through Myanmar, since of course they're having problems with civil war there.  He didn't know, but I met a private importer from China who was working with Myanmar tea just after that.  It made for a really interesting discussion, hearing about how things go there.  

A bit rough, of course; he said that I shouldn't be visiting Myanmar any time soon, but that with the right preparations, connections, and support he can still go there.  He said that the tea plants growing there are quite old and now integrated with old-growth jungles, kind of a common theme everywhere, whether or not it actually matches the marketing spin descriptions.  This is an interesting tangent, to me, which I discussed more in relation to Thai ancient trees and forests.

Emerald Thai Tea booth, worth checking out

those ancient forest sheng versions; it was interesting trying them there

How would someone really know tea plant ages?  You can't, really.  Variety Sinensis plants grow to be large shrubs or small trees and age to reduced productivity over a century or less, but variety Assamica plants (both Camelia Sinensis) can grow to giant trees, and some can live for over 1500 years.  Size isn't the best indicator of age; they will grow at different rates and to different sizes depending on conditions.

But with the right local context background you can at least place when tea was growing there locally, which should set a very general earlier original time when plants were introduced there.  I forget how many hundreds of years ago that related to the teas being sold from Northern Thailand; I think 300 years and 700 years, for two different versions, carried by the Emerald Thai Tea brand producer.

It sounds impossible, right?  Thai history must have been quite vague just 2 or 300 years ago.  People know who the King was, of course, and some broad details about industries and lifestyle, but drilling down to tea production is something else.  

But there was an earlier empire in the North that supposedly had clear ties to the tea production (per that discussion at the event, at least), the Lanna Kingdom.  Dating that time-frame and knowing of local tea production couldn't tell you any given plant's age, but it could support a real claim that tea was there in a given area then, or at least probably was.  That's a long time ago; who knows.  Let's check Wikipedia's input on that timing:

The Lan Na Kingdom or The Kingdom of Lanna (Northern Thai:, pronounced [ʔāː.nāː.t͡ɕǎk láːn nāː], "Kingdom of a Million Rice Fields"; Thai: อาณาจักรล้านนา, RTGS: Anachak Lan Na, pronounced [ʔāː.nāː.t͡ɕàk láːn nāː]), also known as Lannathai, and most commonly called Lanna or Lanna Kingdom, was an Indianized state[broken anchor] centered in present-day Northern Thailand from the 13th to 18th centuries.

The cultural development of the Northern Thai people had begun long before as successive kingdoms preceded Lan Na. As a continuation of the kingdom of Ngoenyang, Lan Na emerged strong enough in the 15th century to rival the Ayutthaya Kingdom, with whom wars were fought. However, the Lan Na Kingdom was weakened and became a tributary state of the Taungoo Dynasty in 1558. Lan Na was ruled by successive vassal kings, though some enjoyed autonomy. The Burmese rule gradually withdrew but then resumed as the new Konbaung Dynasty expanded its influence. In 1775, Lan Na chiefs left the Burmese control to join Siam, leading to the Burmese–Siamese War (1775–76).

Following the retreat of the Burmese force, Burmese control over Lan Na came to the end. Siam, under King Taksin of the Thonburi Kingdom, gained control of Lan Na in 1776. From then on, Lan Na became a tributary state of Siam under the succeeding Chakri Dynasty.

Throughout the latter half of the 1800s, the Siamese state dismantled Lan Na independence, absorbing it into the emerging Siamese nation-state.[3] 

That goes on to say that an important development step was consolidating local rulership and establishing Chiang Rai as a capital in 1262.  Of course it doesn't really relate to when tea was being produced.  If a local tea producer could somehow connect that political history with the tea industry history it could establish that production on the order of 700 years ago, or even a bit earlier, maybe 750.

Two people showed me pictures of old, giant tea tree plants; that's something.  No one really knows how old those are though.

Tae Tea / Dayi; it was nice trying some familiar range sheng pu'er there

Sawanbondin; a brand selling different ranges of teas and herbs

the Sawanbodin booth was especially nice for trying different versions

The state of better quality specialty Thai tea

I tried some relatively interesting Thai specialty tea versions back when Huyen visited in a local shop back in January, a higher quality level than I usually run across.  I've been buying and liking Wawee Thai sheng pu'er (or pu'er-style tea) for a few years, and my local friend Aphiwat makes fantastic local sheng, based somewhere near Chiang Mai.  

Plantations have been developing new styles for years, like Oriental Beauty / Dong Fang Mei Ren and red / ruby oolongs, long after producing Jin Xuan and other varietals from Taiwan as rolled oolong back in the 90s.  I keep hearing of new developments in making local gaba versions, and Thai shu pu'er.  Tea Side made small batch, basket fermented shu a number of years ago, maybe 5 or 6, so that's not really new.

So what else is new?  It would be helpful if awareness and demand for these teas developed.  People can keep on making better and more novel styles of teas, and I guess profiting from selling them when demand enables pricing spikes (I've seen them selling for the better part of $1 / gram).  But for it to become a normalized, developed market theme that exposure needs to broaden.  

I guess events like this one can help.  I might've saw a few dozen people there, not bad for one of the least consumer populated malls in Bangkok (nicknamed "Central Empty," I've heard).  There were more people throughout the mall too, hundreds of them; maybe it is finally catching on with a target consumer base.

Small cafes have been cropping up here and there more and more for years.  Then again some fail as businesses too.  There was a pu'er themed shop in Sathorn near where I worked, that's now gone, and the closest specialty tea shop, general in form, also went out, I think even prior to Covid.  There was a specialized Liu Bao shop nearby; I never did get around to checking that out, and it could still be there.  My favorite Tae Tea outlet shop closed, the one in Belle Condominiums, and another relocated, the one in IT Square, if I remember right.

I see notices for some places, new form cafes, hosting 2 or 3000 baht per person special tea type tasting events (($90 or so, on the high side), and if a local market audience could support that expense level specialty tea would be doing ok.  Peace Oriental, the main local hybrid-culture style place from years back, opened a relatively opulent branch in Gaysorn, essentially the highest end mall here, on the Central Embassy level, and kind of around the corner from it.

No one would ever know to what extent general specialty tea awareness and demand are picking up now since most sales would occur through an outlet like Shoppee or Lazada, the Thai versions of Amazon and Ebay.  I just reviewed two amazing green teas selling from there, and I would imagine that many of the outlets in this tea event would have online shops in those places.  

It's hard to get any feel for business level for sales channels like that.  Yunnan Sourcing, a main US vendor based there and in China, has a related Facebook customer interest group, and many vendors host Discord servers (groups), so you can tell, a little by the discussions, what the following is like.  I suppose if a vendor expands offerings over time they're doing ok, and if they go out of business they weren't.

It was odd not seeing teaware producers represented there; there was at least one of those at the last coffee and tea event I visited, last year.  Then again it's odd just seeing this kind of event being held anywhere, as the first and only tea specific event I've heard of in Bangkok, beyond tastings and such.  It's a good sign.

completely unrelated, a vlog style video Kalani (my daughter) made about it raining hard, more to show her take on it than the weather event

Switching to online contact during the pandemic

First posted to the TChing site, here and here.


It's not that novel an idea to ramp up online contact over this pandemic period; I'm mostly just passing on my own experiences with it.  This post was originally going to be about the potential to move expo / conference events online, since that came up in Facebook group discussion two weeks ago.  I've since seen just a little of an example of that, covered by Elyse Peterson in a post here  (called a Virtual Tea Festival).  I didn't see much of that event, only parts of two sessions, because it was held from 2 to 6 AM here in Bangkok, but the videos are now posted online.

Soo Chung, who was a presenter in the Tealet version, and who initiated that Facebook discussion, is also planning an online Nomad Tea Festival in July.  It would be nice if this pandemic was over by then, wouldn't it?

Beyond not attending online tea conferences in the past, I have very little prior exposure with online meetings or tastings related to tea.  It's a theme that has been coming up ever since Google Hangouts made that kind of connection relatively simple, which was years after Skype made basic two way video calling easy and free.  I just never got to it; I like drinking tea alone, and talking by text message is generally enough for me, maybe except for talking to my Mom.  I talk in online groups about tea, and of course write a blog, and have done real-life open tastings, and online work meetings; all those themes just never linked.  Until now.

I tried it, talking to online friends in India and Germany.  I've met both, that friend in India just the once, but we talk online, in part related to me being an admin for Suzana's tea group on Facebook (Tea).  I've met Ralph a few times here in Bangkok, maybe 4?  We mostly hung out at Jip Eu, the Chinatown shop I visit most, but also visited a Thai temple at one point, and did a tasting session at my office building.

meeting Ralph and Jaba Borgohain (more on that in this post, and this one about a cool wild Thai tea) 

Using Zoom worked out.  I've only ever talked through video using Skype, Hangouts, Messenger, Wechat, Line, Whatsapp, and Microsoft Teams before (the last we use for work).  It's odd discussing an experiential theme like tea drinking through an online medium.  We actually did taste some teas, although due to the time difference I ended up drinking a few extra rounds of a Myanmar sheng I wrote review notes for earlier, versus doing the whole tasting, since I don't usually drink tea in the late afternoon. 

Both of them tried samples I'd passed on, both Thai teas from the same vendor (Tea Side); cool it worked out like that.  One was a small batch produced Thai shu and the other probably a wild-source Thai black tea.  Of course it does work to share tea experience through discussion, it's just not as shared an experience without syncing the teas being tasted.

that first meeting with Suzana and Ralph (on IG here)

It was just as interesting hearing about how the pandemic goes where they are, and their own personal experience of it.  I'd talked with three tea contacts in Italy a couple of weeks ago (by text) and it had been interesting looking ahead to roughly what a lot of other places are experiencing now.  It's just what you would expect though; experiencing social isolation, anxiety, and personal loss.

In Germany they're a bit strict about monitoring the social contact restriction guidelines, and people are fined for violations.  Apparently in India getting beaten by a police officer is a potential form of reprimand.  Interesting!  Here in Thailand anything goes (kind of like always), with lots of people walking around in my soi (side street) not wearing masks.  So far that's not going badly, because voluntary isolation and company closures seem to have leveled off the spread of disease.  Malls and restaurants are closed here, except for take-out; I mean police don't check who is walking around, and why.

It's a positive idea that maybe many of us might gain exposure to some unfamiliar ways of connecting through this, a potential bright side to an otherwise problematic time.

more photos (courtesy of Suzana) from a later meetup, with Huyen (who is mentioned a lot in my blog)

Huyen's brother Dung and sister-in-law are local Vietnamese tea experts, too long a back-story to cover here

this session ran long; lots of tastings and showing off teas and gear

it's crazy the range of tea and teaware Huyen and her family experience and use

Ralph showed a nice collection of pots as well

other visitors dropped by

even Kalani sat in

the next meeting version

Kokang Myanmar 2017 shu; water mineral as a brewing factor

This is line-jumping some other samples and teas I've not made it to but it will be nice to round out that intro to meeting this Myanmar tea producer at an expo (their main site and FB page, for further reference), described in that earlier post along with a sheng review.

Do I really have to cover that "pu'er" is a restricted Yunnan (Chinese regional) designation in every South-East Asian version post?  If you don't know that you probably also don't care.  It's shu pu'er, in all but name, and I personally don't care if people call it that.  To me there is no arguing over whether it is "shu / shou" or not since that just means that it's pre-fermented, and it is.

I've tried this tea; that's not normally how this goes.  Except maybe when I'm reviewing what I've bought a cake of, but usually not even then.  Reviews here are often a first impression, sometimes adjusted related to doing multiple tastings.  There are limits to that approach, which I've discussed; an evolved impression over many tastings would catch more, and at times what gets missed early on could be significant.

Tasting it came up at the Bangkok Impact hall a week ago.  That's crazy that it's only been a week; it's been a busy week.  All this leads into a tangent, which is best kept as short as possible given the extensive scope of that particular subject.  That vendor talked a little about water changing outcome, and that would be one of the main potential differences between what I'll experience this morning and a week ago.  I think I vary a lot too, that different settings affect my frame of reference, and that potential parameter changes would make a difference, but I'm more concerned with my own take shifting than either of the others.  All the same let's get into the water part.

A tangent about water as an input in tea aspect outcome

Water mineral content and other attributes makes a difference in tea aspects, obviously (although it's a point I won't try to establish here).

I use three-stage filter system to process Bangkok tap water at home to brew tea.  It's not ideal; how well that works would depend on what was in that water for dissolved solids before and after filtering, especially related to the types (minerals), relative proportion, and total level of each and overall total, ph, etc.  Of course I don't know that related to the starting point (although this research paper fills in some background on that, with real-time monitoring of some aspects). 

ph is 7.02 at my house right now; that seems fine

It's very common for tea enthusiasts to experiment with bottled water types and then select a favorite, and in some cases people would use different sources for different teas, which would make perfect sense.  Learning why the types work best (for them, per their preference), wouldn't necessarily be critical, since the final outcome would be the thing, the good results.  One common point that comes up, to cite an example, is that reverse osmosis processed water with very low mineral content is typically rejected as an unsuitable alternative.

I've meant to get around to doing water taste testing, and eventually I will.  I don't like the idea of adding to plastic waste by using bottled water sold in those.  It's at least conceivable here to use a source that washes and re-uses glass bottles, kind of an older-world theme that still does make sense, or really makes a lot more sense than it has in the last half-century since the opposite practice of using plastic instead became common.  It's funny how things can go in a cycle.

Whenever I talk to people about water for tea I end up referencing something an online friend says, since a guy who is active in a group I admin for is really into that subject, to the extent of being involved in university level research on it.  That would be Peter Jones, of Trident Booksellers and Cafe in Boulder, with that link to CU (I think; I could be clearer on the form of the last part).  I'm going to just cite a comment from him and move on, but scanning through other discussion and comments is as easy as running a search in that group, or places like the Tea Forum get into that as well:


...Voss would throw it off because of the pH at 5.5, which is acidic and will impact the flavor (as you noted). The ideal water is yet to be found... the ideal water for matcha will be different then the ideal water for oolong, or hongcha, or puer. Probably not by much, but if we are talking about ideal water, then yes. I am working with a professor to map out water in a way that we can talk about how aroma and flavor are extracted from the tea leaf, which mineral salts do the work, and how to arrive at that perfect water. 

We are still several months away from any conclusions. But basically you want your alkalinity to be 1/2 your total hardness, a pH in the 7s, and a balance of 2/1 of Ca to Mg. The other positive ion mineral salts also play a role in extraction. Attached is our water at my shop, which is considered very good for coffee and pretty good for tea from what tasters say. Will continue to share results when we learn more.


There you have it then.  That stops short of pinning down actual levels for Ca and Mg and total dissolved solids that would be ideal, kind of the main things to look out for, but it's a great start.  Again taste testing a half dozen types of water would provide good input on what works, it just wouldn't necessarily be consistent across tea types, so the matrix of testing one would do to get to their own working results could be a bit daunting.  Rie Taluli started in on that in a blog post awhile back.  It would be best to get on with tasting versus doing days of reading first but an account like that might make for a good short version.

On with tasting.  It's interesting to consider if I could potentially taste any difference between this shu and the sheng from when they made it at the expo (related to water used, or whatever else).  Probably that would work better for the sheng, since I tried it within two days of the event.  I will mention any differences if they occur to me, but hold off on starting with that earlier impression.

Review

The dry leaf looks nice; a reasonable amount of bud content is present, which often lends an intensity to a shu, and in some cases a nice creaminess to the texture.  I'll start this brewed longer than I typically brew other teas, around 20 seconds, and get around to checking out what a light infusion is like before too long.

It is pleasant, especially for just getting started.  The flavor range includes subtle versions of both light roasted coffee and cocoa.  I remember it as being even more subtle in flavor than this; that could relate to brewing parameters, or trying it right after a young sheng version may have made it seem like it was missing some aspect levels.  Talking a lot during tasting surely didn't help.  The feel is moderately creamy, but it's probably better to let it run a few infusions prior to saying more about that.

I let this round brew a bit under 10 seconds, plenty long enough for using a full-gaiwan proportion.  It can be interesting drinking shu a lot thicker, to experience that effect, and lighter, to help with actually separating out aspects in tasting.  Shu is nice for being flexible like that; it can be very pleasant across a broad range of infusion strengths.

A touch of earthiness joins that cocoa and light coffee range, or maybe replaces the second.  It's in the range of peat, or if it's more familiar a wet version of forest-floor.  For shu that's not a bad thing.  It can be interesting when versions are really creamy, even more based on cocoa, but I tend to appreciate a broad range of aspects in them.  I could relate to why people don't like any of that range, if they would prefer that it's more like well-aged sheng.  The two types tend to differ, with some limited overlap.

The creaminess is nice.  It reminds me of the effect from Guiness Stout, with both that aspect and some of the other earthy and sweet range mapping over.  It probably helps a lot to like Guiness Stout to appreciate this type of tea.


I brewed this third infusion at more like 5 seconds.  It's still not really light in infusion strength; using half this proportion would make it easier to dial that back more.  I like shu prepared stronger; that wasn't a mistake.  Peat is strongest this round, with any tie to light coffee mostly faded, and cocoa reduced to a limited supporting flavor aspect.  It's a clean form of peat; funny putting it that way.  It might work to try to sort out how some type of well-fermented tree bark is really more what I'm talking about, something less related to actual dirt (which tastes clean), but that's probably indirect and unfamiliar enough to not be a good description resolution.

It is clean though; there is nothing murky about the flavor, or sour, muddled, related to odd mineral tones, etc.  Based on a different interpretation mineral could be on even footing with the earthy aspects; it's definitely there, along the lines of how slate smells, an old form of chalkboard.  At a minimum it fills in the experience of complexity, allowing it to be rich in flavor, earthy, and clean at the same time. 

I liked it at that expo but it's slightly better than I remember, more complex.  If I'd not been paying attention I might have tried a version that had already been brewed a few times; that would change things.  I really thought not though, that they prepared a new sample for brewing right in front of me, but all the chatter could've made it possible to lose track.

There was an interesting guy visiting during tasting then, also named John, a Bangladeshi-German, and we talked quite a bit.  Since that doesn't have anything to do with this tea it's as well to not drift to far into about what; more just adding color to how that visit went.  Those staff were nice too, not less pleasant than Thais tend to be, which to me is high praise.

They had passed on a lot of good input about Kokang-Myanmar tea production as well, with most of that in that sheng review post.  It's no wonder I was a little distracted to do the shu profile memory-capture justice.  If I remembered tea profiles only as well as I do peoples' names I wouldn't remember what we had tasted that day.  It was just a black tea in addition to this sheng and shu; I'll get to that review later.

This still is pleasant on the next round, but I can relate to my impression at that expo better; it's a little non-distinct, with the most pleasant cocoa aspect fading.  I had the impression that it might have been more lightly fermented than some versions, that it could be more subtle for that.  Then I wondered if that wouldn't give it more potential to evolve over the long term.  The character that is present is great for shu, clean earthiness, supporting mineral, decent sweetness, cocoa, nice feel.  It's just a bit standard, right in that "tastes like typical shu" range.  I expected more intensity, since the sheng version is really intense, and since Myanmar shu have expressed that in the past.

This would be a great introductory shu; people often complain of versions being off in some way (tasting fishy at the one extreme), and this really isn't, at all.  For someone well down the path of appreciating shu it could still be a great breakfast tea, complex and pleasant enough to be interesting, just not as novel as some (atypical in positive ways).  To me cocoa in shu matches exceptionally well with a clean version of earthiness and mineral, and this includes that in the balance, just not quite as cocoa-intensive as some other versions I've tried.  I can even like a touch of tar in a shu; that tends to fade over a couple of years of aging, and even when present it can be interesting.  No tar in this; probably as well.

Dark wood may work as a good description at this later stage, mahogany or something such.  Earlier in my reviews I might well have said that tastes like leather to me; for whatever reasons I seem to have moved off as seeing that as a close match to flavor aspect scope that's probably similar or the same.

I've not mentioned aftertaste.  That is often more pronounced in young or old sheng than shu, which is the case here; it conveys some aftertaste effect but the full feel is a more positive supporting aspect.  I get the sense that's part of why some people are disappointed in shu, that an extra dimension here or there can drop out.

If it really is milder for being less fermented it might have more potential to continue to evolve over a number of years, to add depth over some aspect range, but either way it's nice. 

this leaf appearance may or may not indicate fermentation level

Kokang 2018 Myanmar sheng; meeting the producer

I just met some of the staff from the Kokang Myanmar based producer at an expo (sales convention) this past weekend, and tried their 2006 sheng earlier that day; it will be a good time to keep going and review a younger version.  The first half of this post is a review, with the second covering ideas they shared there at the event.

Paging around their website and Facebook page doesn't turn up a lot beside some direct contacts, general background, and shared images, with this inner tea label filling in details along those lines:

Sounds good.  I generally take specific tea-tree age claims with a grain of salt, and they practiced some restraint in not even going there in this label.  There are really old tea trees throughout Yunnan (of course), Myanmar, and Northern Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam, so to some extent whatever age range people cite as a source-plant age could be partially justified.  It's probably also true that growers aren't out there in the forests scattering chemical fertilizers and spraying pesticides, that the vegetation in those environments has reached its own natural balance long ago.

Technically this isn't pu'er since that tea-type name is registered as restricted to Yunnan, but then this part of Myanmar was a part of China at one point before that restriction was ever in effect.  Locally it must have a different name in their local language.  As I take naming conventions it still is sheng, because the Chinese didn't register the modifier of it being "raw," as far as I know.

Full disclosure:  they did provide these teas for review (many thanks!).  I was going to buy some too, given the pleasant tasting experience and very fair pricing, which I'll skip citing here since it may have related to a promotional offering at that expo event, only discussing relative quality level and value in general terms at one point.

Review:

The dry leaf scent is sweet, bright, and rich.  In brewing the tea the scent of rinsed leaves is very sweet, with a strong honey-like smell.  I'll only pass on some first impressions from the first round (and I guess carried over from trying it two days ago) since it's not where it will be when fully wet.

It's sweet, light, and bright.  Bitterness doesn't develop much so early on but that will kick in.  That honey flavor is pleasant, joined by still non-distinct floral, fruit, and mineral range.  This is mostly floral but a light and dry version of mineral stands out already.  Even for being a bit light the feel structure is nice and aftertaste lingers, both so intense the tea experience doesn't diminish after you swallow.


This second round was brewed for a relatively short time, under 10 seconds, and it's still a bit intense.  Until the infusions lose intensity a half dozen rounds in, or later, using a 5 second time would work better.  It's not overbrewed in the sense of being unpleasant, or hard to appreciate or evaluate, just stronger than I prefer.

In that 2006 version review I'd mentioned how a mineral aspect reminded me of one in Vietnamese Thai Nguyen teas, a light and dry but relatively intense mineral aspect that seemed to tie to a vegetal range along the line of kale.  That's present in this too.  Sweetness stands out the most, warm like honey, and pronounced floral tone after that, and then next that mineral.  There is bitterness but that level balances reasonably well; it's still moderate.  It helps that I've been drinking an awful lot of sheng for the past year and a half; helping with interpreting a significant level of bitterness as "moderate," and enjoying that in the right balance.

This is probably not that far off the last version Noppadol passed on, which was a very positive tea (and one he gave me a sample of last year was as well).  I tried that first version again in the last two weeks, even though he gave it to me half a year ago now; I tend to drink the teas I don't like as much quickly and then hold onto the ones I do.  Backwards, right?  At some point to get the most out of them I need to share them, since me having the same experience again seems to add less value than someone else experiencing them.

Feel and aftertaste stand out in experiencing this; I've not done that part justice.  It's sweet to begin with, while you are still drinking it, but after you swallow that bitterness crosses over to a pronounced experience of sweetness.  I've largely given up communicating where tea feel-structure impacts your mouth, but this feels full throughout, with a good bit of structure coming across all across the rear of your tongue, mouth, and throat.  The feel isn't as rich, oily, and full but still soft as can occur but it's pleasant, not dry or harsh in any way.

leaves still unfurling; color a bit darker for being in shadow

Brewed quite quickly the balance works really well.  Somehow it's even sweeter; the flavor intensity in this is impressive.  Per splitting that to taste (as experienced by the mouth) and aroma / fragrance (as picked up in the rear nasal passages, as aromatic components) that sweetness is a taste, as the even more limited bitterness is, but the tea is also fragrant.  The floral range is very nice; that may even trail over to a bit of dried sweet fruit, like a light version of dried mango (of course there are lots of species of those).

The only negative might relate to someone not loving that form of mineral, which works for me.  Again it's pronounced, just not as much as the sweetness and floral range, a dry mineral (eg. limestone) trailing into a hint of vegetal range.  For the right green tea lover this tea could be ideal, although the bitterness may not match expectations or ideal preference.  Bitterness level drops a lot in comparison with the rest brewed lightly, so even though the balance in the last round worked ok for me this is much better.  It's a beautiful tea; it's easy to appreciate how good this is, how distinctive, and the quality level these experienced attributes represent.  Just not necessarily for someone at the start of their sheng journey; avoiding bitterness as much as possible early on might work better for many, and this might not be perceived as balancing well related to that.


A bit of a tangent, but it makes me consider how this will age.  It's more than intense enough to not simply fade over a normal span of limited aging, and could surely hold up to a long cycle, but being as approachable as it is may not be the most positive sign.  Then again I think with this degree of flavor intensity, bitterness, and structure it might come out the other side of dozen years of moderately humid storage just fine.  I should try explaining that to my wife, related to picking up a tong.  I already need to go through a tea storage re-configuration just to quiet her threats of either throwing out the tea or me along with it.

There might be a moderate-age sweet-spot this tea goes through on the sooner side.  At one year old it will have lost a little of it's youthful bright character and intensity but also would have swapped out some bitterness and astringency.  It might be really nice within one to two more years as that exchange continues.  Some people do seem to love middle-aged sheng, drinking versions between 3 and 8 years along, which makes less sense to others.  It would depend on the tea, and the storage.


Next round more of the same; I don't remember this transitioning all that much in that expo tasting session.  The flavor of the honey seems slightly more pronounced; the profile has warmed a little.  That kale-range vegetable, which always was a minor aspect compared to the rest, seems to be transitioning to hardwood, a more typical profile.  Mineral might be easing up a little, letting the honey and floral really take over. 

That honey-like warm sweetness and rich, mild, but still-fragrant floral scent overlaps a little with Ya Shi (duck shit) Dan Cong character, just framed in a completely different context.  For a Dan Cong oolong lover this bitterness may well be way too much, and the level of mineral unfamiliar, or at least unpleasant.  For someone who loves a broad range of teas for different reasons--how I see my own case--both could be great.  I'm not saying this is the Ya Shi of sheng, that overall place and character map over, only that one set of two different flavor aspects does.

I'd had a tasting-environment complication of kids out here using the trampoline beside my outdoor tasting location but things have went quiet.  It's a nice day, early in the morning, warm but not hot yet; it's hard to appreciate good weather in Bangkok unless a cool edge to the feel triggers it.

trampoline jumping and messing with electronics; not ideal

selfie version, with laundry drying

The next round is more of the same; not such a bad thing.  It's soft enough now that messing around with longer infusion times might work but the intensity is still definitely there brewed light.  I love the character of this tea but brewing transitions also relate to not drinking exactly the same thing 10 rounds in a row, experiencing that extra dimension.  That trade-out within the next year or two of aging might compensate for that, adding some other range that could evolve throughout an infusion cycle, along with trading out a lot of what is already present.  This tea definitely has sweetness and floral intensity to spare.

Wood tone picks up a little brewing it slightly longer next round.  It's still pleasant, still not completely different than it had been, but this seems to be the early part of it fading.  People who throw in the towel after the character changes to be slightly less positive might call it quits here; for others who would rather experience more a tea can offer could keep going for awhile.  To me it's still very nice; the overall balance is good.


All in all a very nice tea.  It can't be judged related to the price they were asking at a wholesale oriented sales expo but for value related to that factor it's an incredible tea.  This may not be on the same level as $1 / gram Yunnan gushu versions, related to sought-after character aspects unique to limited areas, but it shares some of the same scope for what it is, definitely at least an upper middle-level quality sheng version.  What I mean by that isn't that it's above average as factory sheng goes, an above average version of the entire category range beyond that instead.  Of course personal preference related to aspects and demand for tea related to location shift things, across a broad scope of how good it is and where a fair market price would be.

beautiful fully opened brewed leaves

2006 version.  much more broken, but almost the same color!

I'm tempted to compare it to that 2006 version, to say which I liked better.  At this point it's a bit of a toss-up because they're just so different in style, positive in completely different ways.  I think in 2 to 3 years that older version will be really nice, properly through it's fermentation transitions, or at least enough to bring that potential across, after steaming in Bangkok heat for that time.  This 2018 version doesn't necessarily need bitterness or astringency to drop out to be approachable but it may be just as pleasant in a different way at that time, and may also have good long-term potential, just based on starting in a different place (probably).

I like both, but the other is more interesting for being unique, and this version better for seeming a higher quality tea version, ticking more boxes related to how young sheng should be.  For whatever personal preference reasons I'm most drawn to sheng versions inclined towards fruit range, so this doesn't match my own best-case profile, but for the character range it covers it's quite nice.

Related to value, the price I bought the 2006 version for and what this 2018 cake were selling for were both amazing.  It often comes up trying to place if teas selling for $60-$80 per standard size cake amount (357 grams) really justify that upper-medium range of pricing, with a jump from there straight to $1 a gram for those presented as gushu.  Both of these were priced nowhere near that middle-range level but they hold their own for positive character.  From there supply and demand kick in though; putting "Yiwu gushu" on a cake links it to established high demand, especially if the source reliability implies that it really is that.

nice representatives (the one not wearing a badge was fellow visitor)

At the expo:

I can pass on some of what I remember the Kokang representatives mentioning at that expo, but of course I didn't use a recorder or take notes, so some of that recollection could be a bit off.


How old are the tea trees?

As good a place as any to start.  Of course they cited lots of different ages; some 200-300 years old, some younger or older.  It's my understanding that tea plants came to countries like Myanmar, Northern Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam a very long time ago, and tea-tree age estimation is imprecise, so no one would really know for sure, short of calling in a biologist.  These teas are from the Shan state, where other versions I've tried from a local vendor friend (Noppadol) has passed some on, of course the region bordering China.  I should've asked about the conflicts there but got side-tracked talking about tea instead.



How long have they been making shu?

Not so long, starting in 2015.  This question occurred to me related to trying a pretty good shu from Myanmar relatively recently, a Tea Side version, and related to trying their 2006 version of Kokang sheng.  The one representative visiting, Maung Lwin, was described by another as a 5th generation tea producer (referenced on their website page), so apparently involved with the production and business ownership as his family has been for a long time. 

I'll review that shu before too long, and did try it there already, so I have a relatively clear impression of it now.  It was good; a bit mild and subtle, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  It might've been less fermented than some, which makes you wonder if it wouldn't have more potential related to aging and transitioning more over a longer time period.


In reference to why the teas are less smoky now.

The one representative showed pictures of lots of very large woks processing the leaves, all with smoke contained in isolation housings that ventilate the fires' smoke away from the tea, eliminating potential contact with the tea.  It makes sense that some of the flavor in teas (sheng) could be some version of natural smoke flavor (just how the tea happens to taste), but also that contact with smoke during processing and storage would also be a factor.  The idea comes up that it's not difficult to tell the difference between the two, and who knows, maybe with the right exposure that would go well.  I have trouble separating the input distinctions I think I can make from those that are actually reliable.

The effect from smoke contact would probably vary a lot though, depending on the form that contact took, type of wood, etc.  This sheng definitely isn't smoky, which already came up in the review.

they also produce dragonballs (not clearly identifiable in this, on the right)

Can people buy the teas online directly from them?

My impression is that they're just not set up for that, based on their response, and reviewing the website bears that out.  They must sell the tea but seem to not be using a direct retail sales model.  I bought an old version from another vendor (the Chawang Shop, an online outlet in Kunming), and someone mentioned another vendor selling that same tea elsewhere, so it's around.  This might make their teas a perfect opportunity for resale back in the US, since although they're not set up for selling a couple of cakes and samples they must be able to sell larger volumes.  They were at this expo to meet resellers to distribute at wholesale volumes, so now could be the perfect time for that.


Are the teas organic?

We didn't discuss this in the form of them guaranteeing that they are, but we did related to the perceived importance of certifications.  They implied that all the teas are naturally grown, without the use of chemical fertilizers or pesticides, but of course if they are producing a broad range of different products from differently sourced leaf material there seems a chance that inputs could vary.  The label print reminds me of this point (the one I posted an image of earlier):

"...grown in Northeastern Shan State in Myanmar, altitude mountain sea level at around 1800 to 2000 meters, never applied pesticides, chemical fertilizers..."


They specifically mentioned that the black tea they produce is from different plant material from a different area, so it may be that the claims and background don't carry over to those.  The black tea was ok, interesting and pleasant if not as complex as it might be.  It was really pleasant in terms of fragrance, but then a separate review will tell that story better.

I really appreciated the opportunity to meet and talk to them, and experiencing the teas has been a wonderful experience.  I think I'll appreciate the shu and black tea all the more for having a chance to mess around with brewing parameters, since to me if you infuse sheng fast and light at a high proportion that works well, but for those others varying inputs makes a lot of difference.

Singapore tea expo, and on tea flavor profiling

I spoke with Cedric Teng, who I first met at a Bangkok park tea tasting awhile back, about going to a Singapore tea expo / festival held recently.  He agreed to pass on some photos and notes, which are really closer to a complete guest blog post than limited input.

Cedric in blue, listening to Sasha explain something

Narendra Kumar Gurung, the Nepal tea grower who started on developing local processing capability this year (covered here in three posts), was also in Singapore over that time frame.  He only visited the event briefly since he was there on other business, but I'll also pass on input from him as well. 

A second related post to follow will cite the organizer's online reference about one of the more interesting aspects, a flavor profile evaluation technique.  That was used to make suggestions to participants for which vendors to visit and what teas to try at the event, related to aspects preference.  That post will extend discussion into related methodologies and evaluation approaches.  Here the subject just gets covered related to Cedric's take on how it worked for him, with his complete account of the visit following.

Cedric Teng's guest post style input on the tea festival

The Singapore Tea Festival 2018 was held at ION Orchard from 21-23 September, and featured a plethora of tea enthusiast selling any and all things tea-related. The event was organized by Tea Pasar, an online tea marketplace that hopes to help tea drinkers understand their tea preferences, and connect them to tea suppliers and producers across the world. There were also workshops and masterclasses available for people to find out more about teas and the brewing process.

(Photo: 1a – Tea Festival Map; 1b – Workshop)

First and foremost, visitors were encouraged to register for an account on the Tea Pasar website, and were given a free porcelain sampling cup upon registration. This cup was to be used to sample teas from the booths available.

(Photo: 2 – Sampling Cup)

 Once into your account, users were prompted to select their tea preferences based on 8 different tea characteristics, namely sweetness, umami, saltiness, sourness, astringency, bitterness, aftertaste, and richness. The online algorithm will then formulate an individualized Profile Print based on these preferences, and offer some suggestions for teas that you may enjoy and the percentage match.

(Photo: 3 – Taste Profile)

Many of the teas available on the website were available for tasting at the event itself, making it super convenient for visitors to discover first-hand the type of teas they like, and also to tweak their preferences there and then as they sample the teas available. For me, my Profile Print started me off with a Wuyi mountain Oolong from Camellia TeaBar. The great thing about the festival is that you get the chance to talk with the tea brewers themselves, who can provide feedback and recommendations before you decide which ones you liked the most. Although my recommended tea, the Lapsang Souchong, was not available for tasting, I tried a few of their other Oolongs, my favourite being the House Orchid, which was lighter with some floral notes.

(Photo: 4 – Camellia Tea Bar)

With the number of booths available, it soon became more convenient to just go from booth to booth rather than follow the website recommendations, and I found myself sampling a bit of everything. Starting with the Oolong, I moved on to try a few different types of Pu Erh, before ending it off with some tea blends at The Tea Depot. In particular, I liked the Eight Secrets tea, which was a blend of eight different teas, which had a nice fruity aroma of lychee.

(Photo: 5 – Aerial)

All in all, I feel that the Tea Festival is definitely a great way for people to start figuring out their tea preferences or explore new brews, and with the array of teas available, it is likely that you would be able to find quite a number of brews that suit your tastebuds. Even though I started off preferring teas which were stronger and more bitter, I found myself gravitating towards sweeter teas with floral or fruity notes in the end, but I think more tea needs to be drunk before I decide on my preferred tastes.

Narendra Kumar Gurung's input

There's a lot more I might comment on related to all Cedric covered, of course starting with noting that his account was well-developed, detailed, and clear.  Before moving onto Narendra's input about the same event I'll add a couple comments about Cedric's experience. 

One part that stands out is his reaction to the tea profiling system they used.  His description didn't seem to reject that it was practical, or critique the form, but due to him still exploring which basic types and aspect themes he likes best in tea it seemed the functionality was limited.  I'll get back to all that in a second post about that subject.

He also didn't seem to experience their "workshop and activities" functions, an interesting looking part of the event.  To some extent that would be more relevant to people with a deeper interest in exploring some specific tea theme, or so involved with the subject they'd want to explore many.  Here is that event workshop schedule, cited from the event page as follows:

I really should have visited that; Singapore is right down the road from Bangkok.  Even just visiting the booths and trying and discussing different types of tea would've been worthwhile.

Narendra and I discussed the same event online by message, here condensed down to a few key points, covering his impression.


I visited on the last day of the festival, at around 6:00 pm, after attending a Nepal Day event held in a central area.  The tea expo was only three MRT stations away [Sinapore has the most functional subway system I've yet experienced].  I visited with my daughter and brother who lives in Singapore.  It was quite busy, with a large number of people eager to try many teas one after another, asking various questions to each of the exhibitors, with the event seemingly a junction of teas from around the world. 

We went around to each stall and tried teas from many different countries and places. Of course each had their own unique taste, flavor, packaging and presentation style. Singapore is truly an international hub, represented in that diversity.  But the tea tasting part of the experience seemed a little less genuine in form than the original preparation and drinking styles can be, probably due to demands of the format and the rush to serve so many people.

From my days in Fujian tea college the more genuine taste of many of the teas may not have been carried over due to the fusion of different preparation styles, which may have resulted in changes to different aromas experienced.  On the positive side there was a good energy from that crowd participation theme, and exposure to a greater number of participants.  Some teaware on display was also very eye catching.  But due to time constraints we couldn't meet the various tea masters and hold in-depth discussions about the products.

That event forum definitely has potential as an opportunity to explore and expose a larger number of people to the original character of Nepal tea. Nepali teas grown in high altitude and an organic manner could definitely attract a lot of tea lovers there.  But there could be some more work to be done in terms of better branding, packing, and advertising to support that. Nepali teas already produced have their own distinct, original style that compares well to others, but it may also be helpful to add more value by adjusting style to meet differing preference demands.

Conclusions, and about Singapore

The event sounded great to me.  In the initial draft of this post the next section covered the Teapasar flavor profiling system used at the expo, but that ran so long that I've split it out into a second post to follow.  That system seemed very novel, creative and forward thinking, obviously not something put together quickly for marketing purposes or event organization.  I'll get back with more details, and more about other related systems of tea aspect evaluation and summary.  Regardless of those details the general theme can all serve as food for thought for tea groups and event organizers in other places.  

I'll close with a bit more background about Singapore instead.

Narendra and his daughter, and part of the Singapore harbor area (credit)

Singapore is one of the two most culturally diverse cities I've ever visited, roughly on par with Honolulu for not having any one majority of race or background culture among residents.  It's the country I've visited the most in South East Asia, at least a half dozen times in vacation visits and work trips. There are four main groups living there, related to background:  from China, India, Malaysia, and "other," Westerners and people from all over.  As a former British colony that English background would have been more influential in the first half of the 20th century but Singapore is very diverse and mixed today.  Singapore was a part of Malaysia after that, and later split off to be an independent country.  You can imagine how diverse the foods offerings are there.

It's unique for being a city state and an island, literally just across a bridge from Malaysia.  A co-worker was just talking about how you can reach the closest town / city in Southern Malaysia by bus in half an hour or by high speed train in 10 minutes (seems a bit too fast, doesn't it; it takes me 45 minutes to get to work within Bangkok, and I don't live that far away).  We've visited the Legoland theme park in that area from Singapore on a day-trip before, by bus, and it seemed to me that took more like 45 minutes or an hour, but either way it's close.

Related to the infrastructure there, and more specifically to commercial expo / conference events, Singapore is clearly the most developed country in SE Asia.  Many parts of Bangkok are as modern as places get but Singapore is still ahead overall.  I'm not surprised that the event was managed professionally, with vendor participants showing mature development of supporting products, packaging, and marketing themes. 

Beyond developing an amazing subway system in expat discussions Singapore is regarded as having the best airport in the world, Changi.  I completely agree.  It's a hard point to argue, getting into details about efficient processing, food and shopping options, look and feel, internet services, transportation, and so on, but I'll cite an example that puts it in perspective: there's a butterfly garden in one terminal.  They cover the basics better than any other airport I've visited but also take things to another level.

I haven't been to Singapore in about 4 years, so I was already writing this blog the last time I visited, but I've ramped up tea interest and exploration quite a bit since then.  At that time I just looked around Chinatown to see what was there for tea and didn't turn up much.  This general commentary section stops short of describing broader tea culture in Singapore then; it's not something I've been exposed to much.  Of course I've talked to people in Singapore about tea by message; that comes up related to lots of places, in part due to being an admin for an international themed Facebook tea group.  But I have no summary version or additional observations to offer.


Part two of this post to follow will continue on about tea flavor profile evaluation, about the approach taken at this event and other related frameworks and systems, even about to what extent machine testing can cover related scope.  Can a machine taste tea?  Of course not, in the sense that we do.  But the extent to which one can might be surprising.

9 years ago, when Keo was a baby

with baby Kalani that time, on Orchard Road

visiting a botancial garden, and natural areas outside town are nice