2022 Tea China 7542 compared with a 2014 7542

 

Tea China version right, in all photos

A new vendor--new to me--sent some tea for review recently; many thanks for that!  It's always nice checking in with basics, and a 7542 sheng pu'er was included.  I didn't check the year yet; it's interesting doing these reviews as blind as possible, then going back and seeing if what I experienced and described made sense based on the actual product details.  Later edit:  2022!

Of course all 7542 isn't the same.  They create and sell that in batches, and I don't know the batch number for the 2014 version I'm using for comparison (that I happened to have around).  Now that I think of it I've got a "younger" loose version I could've used; maybe that would have made more sense.  If the two are at vastly different ages that will still be fine; I can use it to compare aging patterns.

Then storage also changes things.  The tea I have has spent lots of time in Bangkok, which is hot and humid, which will speed up storage transition speed (fermentation, the growth of bacteria and fungus).  If this other version is a comparable age but stored in a cooler and dryer area, like Kunming, it would have fermented less.  It's hard to imagine that it might be "not as good" related to that batch issue, but I guess that's possible.  Newer Spring tea versions of lots of teas are more prized, so that batch #1 sells for more (of 7542, and other recipe types sold as a series like that).

There's not so much more to add.  7542 is familiar; it usually works better as an aged tea, and 11 years old really isn't quite enough.  At least these interim tasting checks are getting closer to the right time, just as that cake has been chiseled down a good bit, but probably still years away from being fully aged.  It helps to buy one cake to try and another to just age if you are actually going to try one once in awhile.

Yunnan DaYi Pu’er Tea 7542 Classic Raw Pu’er Tea  $16.43 (2022 version, for a 150 gram small cake)

The listing includes a reference to it being 250 grams in one place, but that small cake version of 7542 is usually 150, and it says that in the label image reference.

The listing is just general background information:

Pu’Er ripe tea from the famous Yunnan Menghai Pu’Er Tea Factory (Dayi). 7542 is a classic formula for Pu’Er tea and a benchmark for Pu’Er Raw tea.

We purchased these Pu’Er teas in 2022.

In the new tea stage: The aroma is rich, featuring intense, long-lasting floral and fruity notes, as well as elegant and light honey-sweet fragrance. The lingering aroma at the bottom of the cup persists for a long time. Additionally, new tea may have a fresh clean scent or downy hair aroma, with an overall fresh and uplifting fragrance.

After aging: As storage time increases, the aroma gradually changes. It transitions from fresh floral notes to aged aroma, camphor-like scent, medicinal fragrance, woody aroma, etc., becoming increasingly mellow and profound.

I was going to return to that "benchmark" idea in the conclusions, so I might as well expand on it here.  For whatever reason it has evolved that this one tea version represents all factory tea range, not necessarily as the best possible example, but as the singular version cited as type-typical.  That's fine; it's a pretty good example of the range.  It makes it especially attractive for trying out the general type range.

Another point I wanted to mention related to cost.  This costs 11 cents a gram.  That seems kind of low, but I don't really follow market rate pricing.  It doesn't necessarily raise a red flag for me that it might be fake, but that's not an unheard of range of concern.  Searching for something else an EBay listing was at about the same pricing, and King Tea Mall sells it for $14, not so different.

One might wonder why the pricing for these is so moderate; two of them would relate to a cost of around $30, from all of these sources, for just under a standard 357 gram amount (300 grams instead).  The price of sheng has dropped a good bit, but it was my understanding that this was a relatively recent trend, that over the past year a dip in demand and market positioning occurred.  These are from 3 years ago; I would've expected it to sell for a little more.  

One of the causes for a relative "crash" in pu'er pricing was that many sources were making too much of it, to support speculative buying, and also ordinary demand, people drinking it.  It's not counter-intuitive that expanded production would relate to very well known versions being inexpensive even  prior to this final outcome, the more significant and broad price drop over the past year, or slightly longer.

How would I know if this was "real?"  I wouldn't.  It including a smoky note is hard to place, something I discuss in this review.  Quality level, style, and appearance seems right for this tea version.  Probably it just picked up some external smoke contact along the way, and that's not any sort of unusual clue.

color difference comes out more in wet leaf

Review:

older comparison version, left, brews darker

2014 comparison version:  color is darker in this version; it should be older.  Flavor is a little subdued this round; it's still opening up.  Tones are warm.  It has fermented to a more agreeable range, per my preference.  There's a different sort of barnyard flavor present, compared to the edgier, more exotic aged Xiaguan range.  This includes aged barn wood, and a touch of leather, but not the funkier saddle leather scent. 

Tea China 7542:  this includes a touch of smoke; I'm not sure what to make of that.  I don't remember noticing smoke in a 7542 version before.  It will probably mostly settle out within about two infusions anyway, given how light it is.  Smoke can come from a naturally occurring flavor, from contact with smoke during the wok pan-frying kill-green step, or from a storage input, from it being stored where smoke is also present.  I don't know what this is from.  Smoke as a natural flavor tends to be slightly different, but I'm not going to claim I could spot that difference now.  It just doesn't come up as often as it had before; a decade back it had seemed that contact with smoke during processing was more normal.

Flavors seem clean and pleasant beyond that.  Mineral is pronounced, and some limited vegetal range flavor remains, which has transitioned to warmer tones in the other, over time.  This still balances well enough.  It should be pleasant to drink.  For people who think young sheng tastes like kerosene, or whatever else, they might still hate these.  Neither is fully age transitioned.

2014 #2:  brewed liquid color is all the more evident; this is darker and redder.  Flavor is a little rough; this needs however many more years to really get there.  I do drink partly aged sheng from time to time to experience that intensity and punch, but it can seem a little harsh.  

Warm tones are emerging, towards dried fruit, well within a good bit of medicinal herb range now.  It just settles more on aged wood with a touch of leather.  I suppose that astringency and towards-vegetal range is like cured wood, at this point.  It doesn't taste completely woody, as cheap sheng can, like plywood smells, but it's not so far off it either.

Tea China version:  smoke is pretty intense this round, even stronger.  And lots of other complexity joins in beyond that.  It's also on the challenging side, very astringent, with some bitterness (lots, to anyone who hasn't been drinking young sheng for awhile).  I'll need to eat something between rounds to clear part of the accumulated experience of bitterness, vegetal range, and astringency.

Is it pleasant though?  I don't know.  I like varying sheng experiences, and this is one of them, but it's also kind of challenging.  I'm not sure it makes sense to me to buy a tea like this to drink at this stage, fermented (age transitioned) to this degree.  Other people do though.  I do drink kind of challenging partly-aged sheng sometimes, just not often.

2014 #3:  brewed a little lighter this kind of makes sense, with early rough edges transitioning away.  The same range of flavors stands out, but it all balances better.  Warm mineral tone plays a larger role.  Even sweetness, it seems.  It's hinting towards dried fruit range to come, but it will need more transition for that to become clearer.  

At least it's nice and clean, not musty.  And it has been stored in the wettest and hottest conditions imaginable, right at the limit of what tea could experience without molding, with the heat enabling it to change in a different way, and probably somehow suppressing mold development.  Mind you if we put bread out on the table (sealed in a bag) it will mold really fast; fungus can thrive at 30+ C, in the upper 80s and low 90s F.

Tea China version:  smoke does start to ease up, but it's only balancing the rest better.  That's still centered on a partly cured wood tone at this point, of course with some mineral and bitterness.  It has a limestone sort of lighter mineral tone.  It's not unpleasant, but it's not necessarily "approachable" either.  Then again the other version isn't that much easier to appreciate, even with some warmer tones included.

I haven't been mentioning that intensity is good.  It's really a bit much.  But in a sense I like that about sheng, and pushed to a far limit it's interesting to experience.  All of this sounds more negative than I intend it.  7542 is a pretty good version of factory tea, and these two examples are fine.

2014 #4:  the best this has been.  Some root spice seems to emerge, or maybe it's that combined with bark spice.  This version really is getting there.  But it would be better not to drink it at all for 3 or 4 more years to let it keep changing though, then after 3 or 4 more it would probably be better yet.

Tea China:  smoke has dropped to an even level input with the rest.  I might've seemed to imply that smoke is a flaw, that people should dislike it.  In the right other flavor context it can be very pleasant, and it works in this.  The somewhat challenging astringency and vegetal range is a bit much, and warm toned smoke helps balance it.  Without that smoke I don't think that this would be as good, at this fermentation transition level or stage.

It's fairly clean in overall effect, just with rough edges.  Intensity is great, and the mineral range is generally positive.  Sure, it can seem a little harsh, so a take on it depends on appreciating that or else hating it.  I lean towards liking it.  But then my overall favorite range of sheng is something else entirely, the fruity, warmer toned, bright character (kind of contrast with the last aspect, but it makes sense to me), good intensity younger versions, commonly produced in "other" South East Asian countries, in Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, and wherever else.  I guess that Myanmar is the other "wherever else," but the style is more common in those other three countries, based on what I've tried, with some Myanmar range seeming closer to some Yunnan styles.

I'll try another round and let this go.  It's too much tea to power through quickly, and it's too intense.  The effect is also strong, along with the flavor being intense.  I'll chalk that up to another positive, but if I were to drink a half dozen rounds, 12 cups, it wouldn't be positive.  10 is pushing it.  I've thrown out about a fourth of this tea just to make it this far.  It's disrespectful to the tea, as I see it, but it was a necessary input to getting further through rounds to try these more completely.  I could come back later and try more, but I prefer to write the notes in one go, then edit when I get to it.

2014 #5:  more of the same, not transitioning so much.  I can appreciate this.  I wouldn't want to have this experience too often, but once in awhile it's nice.  

Tea China:  the same applies to this; it's fine to drink this as it is just now.  Not my main preference, but then lots of tea experiences are like that.  It would probably be better in another dozen years, but for many that kind of delay would seem problematic.

Conclusions: 

One might wonder if I can judge a difference between the two, adjusting for the age difference.  Not really; they're too far apart in age and character.  They seem similar, beyond that, but that's a stretch as a conclusion about authenticity or quality or whatever.  

The smoke is the main difference, and that was probably added in later on, through some sort of storage contact.  People using actual wood fire for heating isn't necessarily as odd as some people might see it as; I'm from Pennsylvania, and I grew up using a woodburning stove as an alternative heating system.  Not a fireplace, although we had that too, I mean a stove in the basement that heated water that circulated in a baseboard system.  We used a heat pump for a long time, pulling heat from a cold spring water source, then later my parents switched to using fuel oil, when that system needed to be replaced.

These might have been similar related to starting points.  Both are pretty clean, heavy on mineral, expressing some wood tones, just in different ranges, related to aging (I think).  Intensity is good for both.  They balance ok.  There are lots of flaws that I might have mentioned that aren't included, lack of intensity, a different range of wood flavor, mustiness, lack of balance, limited sweetness (which doesn't come across well with the other range present), or not including the right range of astringency and bitterness.  They're both fine.  

I really like the unblended, distinctive narrow input material type effect better, something lots of sheng drinkers have been conditioned to prefer over the last decade.  With that more gaps show up, and distinct strengths, limited range flavor inclusions.  They've blended a lot of that out in these.  They're using some relatively intense material in them, but that's a part of it.  And they're a little harsh; also a normal inclusion.  

I like the way the first is moving towards spice, maybe a little towards incense spice, in the round after the notes leave off.  To me that's what 7542 is really about, experiencing it as a 20 year old tea, or 25 years old.  20 is fine for Bangkok storage; time passes differently here.  I'm holding up well, but teas change faster here.

To me 7542 is particularly interesting because it serves as the normal standard for factory teas, a benchmark version.  Experiencing it helps someone not only learn that category better, but also lets you discuss that particular experience with others, as a shared main reference.  Buying a version that's 3 or 4 years old and drinking straight through it might not be entirely positive, but even for that it's not awful.  It's not at all ideal, compared to more approachable sheng, but for people new to exploration it wouldn't be so bad to work through some exposure.  You get accustomed to brewing approach that way, and become more familiar with the general style.  

Related to buying from a relatively unknown, small vendor versus a known marketplace vendor I like the idea of supporting smaller businesses, I just don't end up buying much from this kind of source.  Or from any sources, this year, and in the past more from only a few favorites.  It will be interesting trying other teas from them, to see what the rest is like, which may make them a more attractive source.

Comparing 2014 and 2017 Dayi 7542 versions

2017 version left, in all photos

So many of these review posts start with considering why it makes sense to comparison taste teas together.  A new tea friend bought me some of a 2017 7542 (Dayi / Tae Tea sheng pu'er) version when we met at a local Bangkok shop recently (at Sen Xing Fa), so I wanted to write up what it's like.

This also relates to considering what sheng versions are like at different stages of fermentation transition, of different character types and ages.  It's nice checking in with a benchmark version from time to time to help place others.  

7542 versions tend to really need about 20 years of aging to be ready to drink, or 25 to 30 years in drier and cooler storage conditions, so trying 6 and 9 year old versions is a little odd.  It's still interesting see where they are in their transition, and comparing other less intense sheng versions with them at similar transition points can be interesting.

I already owned the rest of a cake of this 2014 version.  I had drank more than really made sense earlier, going a little beyond checking on it every year or so.  I'm not sure what that was about.

Review:

2017:  a little harsh, but surprisingly pleasant in comparison with what I expected.  There's lots of bitterness, coupled with astringency structure, but plenty of warm tones for this being so young.  Of course it's intense.  Some pleasant saddle leather sort of earthier range is present, leaning towards typical Xiaguan range.  I suppose that someone could interpret fruit or spice being present, since this is so complex, but earthiness stands out more, along with that astringency and structure.  Mineral base is a part of all that too.

2014:  this is quite different, relatively speaking.  It's still intense, with lots of complexity, and not in an entirely different character range, but a smooth and rich spice sort of tone really dominates, at least at this round.  9 years is a long time to transition where this tea has been, in Bangkok.  In Kunming storage it would still exhibit a lot of freshness, but this has turned a corner for character form, more onto warmer tones.  It still needs plenty more time to reach its optimum; this is still an in-transition early-form review, a check on transition progress.  

That wood and spice tone is hard to describe.  It's like cedar or redwood, but towards spice from that, with an odd changed character to it, as driftwood takes on.  It's clean in effect; no mustiness.  There is an earthy edge leaning a bit towards leather, or even mushroom, back to that Xiaguan reference, but I think this will clean up in the next couple of rounds, that it might just be an early round transition phase.

I often say that I don't really "get" cha qi, that I barely feel teas, beyond some caffeine input, but I'm feeling these already, on the first round.  I tried to go lighter on amount but probably left off at 6 grams each instead of 8.  I'm brewing these pretty fast (having used a rinse step, for once), but the infusion strength is still going to be high.  Using 4 grams for each would've made more sense.

brewed fast, but you can still see the intensity

2017, 2:  this isn't bad, just as it is now.  It has a green sort of edge to it, which not everyone could relate to, but I've kept re-trying decade old Xiaguan tuos to acclimate.  A rich warm tone is pleasant, along the line of toffee.  There's a challenging feel aspect, for sure, but there is more to appreciate beyond that.  Complexity is good, and in just another half dozen years this may be relatively settled, years ahead of schedule.  Not fully age-transitioned, of course, but just drinkable in a different sense.  These really shouldn't be drank before 20 to 25 years old, to be more optimum.

2014:  a lot of the same applies to this, just related to it being a little further along.  For anyone who hasn't been drinking sheng for a half dozen years this experience would be truly awful, but I'm kind of relating to it.  I think the real story here will be how these mellow out around rounds 7 or 8, what that's like, but of course I can't drink 14 to 16 infusions of these at one time.  And I'm probably not going to do a two-part review either, or discard this tea, or save it for later.  It's all a bit of a shame.  10 cups of these teas is a ton of it but I might get that far, if I brew these light enough.

2017, 3:  There is so much going on but the intensity makes it hard to sort into parts.  Something like leather stands out, then a green wood sort of flavor couples with the challenging intensity, while warm mineral couples with the deeper base, so strong it almost seems to include metal.  Part of the rest is in a spice range, and there may be some dried fruit involved, towards Chinese date or goji berry.  The feel isn't something people would keep coming back to, but it's not completely unpleasant.  If it had a bit more dry edge it really wouldn't work, but as it is this is just basic astringency structure.

2014:  only part of that harsher feel is present in this; it softened a lot in the extra 3 years (not that these were identical to begin with; they may have only been quite similar).  A lot more of the flavor falls into a spice tone range, across both a deeper, smoother root spice range and part like more aromatic incense spice.  There's an odd medicinal quality to it, one that's hard to place.  It seems like sweeter fruit tone is evolving, that it might come to include more of that, but it's secondary to the rest here.  Where the other is like a dried Chinese date or goji berry this is starting towards dried tangerine peel.  The earthiness seems to include some tobacco as well. 

One more round should be enough.  This is a story partly told but it's too much to experience a lot of these.  I drank water in between rounds to moderate the experience a little but lunch and a break will help more.

2017, 4:  it's very gradually becoming more approachable.  By round 7 or 8 this will be easier to appreciate.  The balance works better; feel eases up, and intensity settles across a similar but different aspect range.  Leather effect is more like baseball glove now, not as heavy and earthy as the horse saddle tone earlier.

2014:  that one spice note is interesting and pleasant.  Feel is still a bit much, and intensity is higher than it's easy to appreciate.  In just 3 or 4 years that balance may shift, but again this needs longer.  The wood range tone is still too green, and it's not nearly as harsh as I expected but still kind of rough.

Conclusions:

Both teas were much better in a series of later rounds, at least 4 more, and both are still far from brewed out at the end of the day.  I might've been able to describe another extra aspect or two for both but the main change was the green wood tone and astringency fading, while more positive warmer range emerged more later.  That was plenty for notes anyway, and enough reference for mentally comparing this experience to other middle-aged sheng I run across.

Both were better than I expected, and more transitioned.  I guess I had been drinking that 2014 version as even younger than 6 years old earlier, before I just sat it aside, even though trying it over and over when younger really made no sense.  The main thing that stood out wasn't exactly a surprise, the intensity.  

I hadn't expected the character to have changed that much over three years, but then maybe they didn't start out as relatively identical to begin with.  I doubt that spice tone that really stands out now in the 2014 version was noticeable in that form even 2 or 3 years ago, so who knows, maybe the other will go through a similar flavor range phase in 3 more years.

Comparing 7 and 9 year old Dayi / Taetea 8582 and 7542 sheng pu'er

In that recent Chinatown shop visit tasting outing, at Sen Xing Fa, I bought a Dayi 8582 sheng cake.  It seemed a little odd buying something basic and already known, after trying a dozen other unusual or version-specific teas that day, but I had meant to buy this cake for some time.  It's a gap in what I've experienced and what I own, as I see it.  I'd even meant to buy this exact same cake at that shop, I think 3 years ago on a visit there, but had to cut that day short because of my wife's pressing next demands, and forgot to get back to it.

that could be the same tea in the center, from 2017

at that recent tasting; Mr. Tian is all grown up now

The 7542 is from 2014 and this 8582 from 2016, so both year and age-transition level vary.  The 7542 I've owned for awhile, bought to try as it aged over time.  It's relatively senseless to own only one such cake, since one could easily keep trying it every other year and then notice they love it most 20 years old, when it's half gone from all the tasting.  Even if you only tried it a half dozen times in a dozen years removing 50 or so grams from a 357 gram cake is a lot.  Per some classic old Tea Addict's Journal (blog) advice "a cake is a sample," or close to that.  I think it might've been followed with a tong being a sample, a set of 7 cakes, but that could be partly a joke, since 2 1/2 kg of tea is a bit.

The first question that arises is whether or not this is real.  I think it probably is, even without trying it, but even after trying it I wouldn't be sure.  These tea versions aren't so expensive, although 7542 kind of is now, after yet another spike in collector holding made even brand new versions more costly.  It would be worthwhile for someone to counterfeit the teas though, even if they only sell for $30, since finding $10 source cakes would be simple enough in China, or for even less, so it would be down to forging packaging.  I won't focus on that much here; I'll offer my impressions, and bring it up again, but this isn't about me confirming or rejecting that determination.

I'm trying the tea to set up a baseline of how it transitions over time.  I can't go back and try how the version was in 2016, 7 years ago, but I can try it now, and compare that to a more fully aged version in another 7 years.  20 years is probably a standard age-transition level for cakes like these, but the pace of changes varies with storage conditions, and the hot and humid climate in Bangkok rushes it.  

That's not necessarily optimum, but what is ideal would vary by starting point, the aspects of the original material, and would vary quite a bit with personal preference.  If someone likes heavier, deeper, danker aged flavors in sheng, and the starting point was less approachable, very intense, bitter, and astringent, then hot and humid storage could be ideal.  Dry storage preserves initial character better, not changing it as much as one might expect over a decade, and then somewhere in the middle most people might see as an optimum, conditions more like in Taiwan or Hong Kong.  I'm not put off by the heavier flavor range hot and humid conditions here impart, with 12 to 15 years being more like 20 in a drier place for general transition level, but I'm claiming that it's somewhat optimum either.  It just depends. 

Note that I don't know where these were stored, beyond the 7542 being a cake I've held onto for the past half dozen or so years.  Either could have easily spent some time in China, changing things.  It seems likely this 8582 cake was stored right beside where we were tasting teas in that shop, which isn't the worst case for conditions, but probably not ideal either.  I'll add more about that at the end.

a bit darkened already, especially for being 7 years old

On to tasting then.  Tasting process will be fairly standard, using a rinse, water not far off boiling (local Bangkok tap water from a filtration and heating system, so not at full boiling), brewing about 7 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan (which I didn't weigh), using an initial discarded rinse.

Review:

8582:  interesting!  It's definitely in those in-between years when it's less natural to experience it, at only 7 years old not really showing the other aged side past that as clearly.  Heavy flavors are pleasant (to me), tons of warm mineral, and parts towards wood or leather.  It seems like a floral range tone still shines through, and another closer to mineral is odd, a little towards soap, but not in an awful sense.  

In inexpensive, poor quality teas there's a characteristic thinness that seems to often occur, a gap in fullness of feel, even if flavor intensity can be fine, and this isn't like that, it has good body to it.  Astringency level is nowhere near an optimum for this being at a point in aging where it's not normal to drink it, but the edge and structure that's there should help the tea evolve positively without fading.  For aftertaste a heavy mineral taste lingers long on my tongue; that should be even more positive as it softens and changes form over time.

7542:  this may be considerably more age-transitioned, even though it's just 2 years older (9 years old now).  It brews a lot darker, and the feel has changed (not that they had to be so similar initially, given they're not the same recipe / version, but I mean the general range).  It's picking up a deep and heavy basement sort of tone, which is quite positive to some and off-putting for others.  It's also too early to judge this, since it will mellow quite a bit and lose a lot of edge to a transition process.  It will only really settle into being more fully aged after 15 years, even in Bangkok.

This may be brewing faster, related to being more fermented, in the same way more oxidized black teas brew out much faster than lighter oxidation level black teas tend to.  Oxidation and fermentation transition are two different things, even though to some extent the second may partly include some input from the first, per some people's input, but this comment is only about how fast teas tend to brew.  That doesn't matter much in application; it's easy to give a round extra seconds to adjust for it, or to shift timing a little between two versions when comparison brewing, which I probably won't do.

Flavors are interesting in this, spanning rich wood tones, heavy leather range, and tisane range, mild root spice.  That would all shift a lot over a half dozen more years, and I'm not sure it makes so much difference where a version in the middle happened to be at 7 versus 9 years.  I could swear that I'm feeling these teas already, before finishing the first two rounds.  I'll need to let them brew a little faster next round for a different reason, to keep it in a more drinkable range for tasting.  I drank quite a bit of water between rounds to reset my palate and it still tastes sweet, with some tea flavor, quite a number of drinks in.  These teas are intense.

8582 2nd infusion:  this is definitely way behind the other for transition level, and seemingly less intense.  People speak of sheng going through a quieter phase changing from younger to more aged character but I would expect this to be at the end of the earlier stage yet instead, not there.  It has reasonably strong flavor range, good depth, and especially interesting aftertaste range, seemingly almost as strong as the flavor while drinking it.  The other just packs a really hard punch.  I'll skip describing another flavor list until next round.

7542:  this is more age-transitioned, it seems, but bitterness is also more intense, which is odd.  Astringency too; the feel structure of this is more challenging than positive, really.  It needs more time, which always was the theme, experiencing the middle range.  Aftertaste experience for this one is so heavy on minerals it's almost metallic.  

If I brew 12 to 13 small cups of these that will make 24 or more in total; way too much.  I might not make it through too many for the review and notes part of this and try again after lunch.  

Oddly I like the novelty of experience of trying out sheng that's not ready yet; from time to time I'll drink a middle-years Xiaguan and Dayi Ji Ji tuocha tea like that.  I have a dozen such tuos at home, almost none compared to people who collect in significant volume, but a start for people accustomed to not owning much tea.  I drink a lot more young sheng that's best drank young now.

At the end of this second round I'm thinking I might only make it through 3.  I ate right before this too, oatmeal with banana, so it's odd that it's hitting me this hard.

8582, 3rd round:  mild wood or tisane range picks up, with heavier tones and mineral fading some.  Intensity isn't what I expected from this, but it shouldn't be this promising if it's fake tea.  Maybe it is in a quieter phase just now.  I'm brewing these relatively quickly, keeping them light, but I mean after factoring that in.  I'll try out infusing them for slightly longer next round but these can be way too strong brewed for even moderate timing, so not for very long.

7542:  this is more intense by a good bit, with a lot of heavier flavors mixing with lighter range.  It's not balanced, related to being in an awkward place in transitioning, but that's normal.  I would've expected more of that "greener" range and astringency edge, that is present in this, to stand out in the other version than is occurring.

This reminds me a little of trying a Dayi purple label version some years back, from 2004, some years back, projecting ahead to how all the rough edges, heavy and complex flavors, and overall intensity would settle out.  It has now; at 19 years old (or so) it's in a better place, but a few more will really finish off that process.  There was some uncertainty if that was a variation of a 7542 recipe or not that I never really settled; at least one online reference referred to multiple versions, including one with a label like that, relating to that formula and type, but it still never seemed clear.  I'm pretty sure that was from Taetea / Dayi, that it wasn't an early version of a counterfeit.

I'll try one more round and take a break; it's enough.

8582 4th infusion:  to me this is pleasant, and being slightly more subtle (less complex and intense) than the other isn't so bad.  It has good depth to it, and there is flavor range.  Tobacco really picked up this round.  Not a warm sweetness like pipe tobacco, that's more perfume-like and aromatic, or cedar wood range spicy cigar tobacco, this is closer to how a Camel cigarette smells (not when burning).  

Sweetness level is ok, just a bit overtaken by deeper mineral and other range that comes across as wood or leather.  The wood tone includes a greener edge, part that's tied back to younger range character a lot more than what should transition in over the next decade.

7542:  it's further along, but this also includes a mix of heavier mineral base, warm tones, basement-aroma depth, and greener range, again back towards green wood.  I would imagine it might be 3 more years of transition before these are more fully along, and another comparison with these notes might make sense.  

Somehow those 10 or so year old tuochas make more sense to me, even though per any standard preference they're not ready yet either (9 years old now, 2012, the version I own most of, reviewed here along with 2014 and 2015 Dayi Jia Ji tuochas 4 years ago, as another interim-transition review).  Looking at that earlier review "green wood" comes up a lot, just as now.

Conclusions:

The point here never was to fill in a long flavor list, the main theme for a lot of reviews, more just to compare this new-to-me 8582 to the 7542 I had already owned.  It's fine; it will be nice to see how it changes over time.  For being this promising I should probably buy another.

The effect of these sheng surprised me a little.  I drink forest-origin young sheng all the time now, and it's intense, but these really have me buzzing.  In part that's actually a little negative; along with a stoney sort of rush my head feels a little off.  I've never been sensitive enough to "cha qi" to feel overly impacted by it, beyond some exceptionally intense sheng versions triggering that.  It seems like part of that change is probably from me, not the teas.  No need to overthink it; I'll take a long break and try a few more rounds after lunch.

The one other surprise was the 8582 giving up so much intensity to the other version.  They're in completely different places in age-transitioning so it's hard to separate that from inherent character and fully-aged potential.  Both should be fine for moving through that process as early as in another half-dozen years, with the transition rate speeded up here in Bangkok.

I didn't get far with speculation here that it might not be "real."  I would guess that it is what it's presented as.  Why would it give up some intensity to the other tea version then, even though for being two years younger it might be more intense, just not a pleasant related to having less time to transition?  Storage conditions may not have been ideal.

Taking this for what it's worth, not expert opinion, just somewhat informed discussion, humidity, temperature, and degree of air contact are main storage conditions inputs.  Storage in a shop with AC running isn't ideal, even in a really humid place like Bangkok.  If they kept that place as cold as the malls here it would be much cooler and drier, and worse, but still air conditioning units pull moisture out of the air.  

Daily temperature swings probably aren't necessarily ideal (natural conditions in Bangkok), but I'm really talking here more about degree of air contact than those other two factors.  This was sold in a thick ziplock style bag, which is decent, but those breath an awful lot.  The tea could've been cycling a trace amount of humidity in and out every day, for years, losing some volatile flavor compound components at the same time.  

The input would've been minor, because if they kept that shop only somewhat cool (26 or 27 instead of the 32 or 33 outside temperature, just under 80 instead of up into the 90s), plenty of humidity in outside air would still mix in.  It stays 60% RH or higher here in Bangkok; it's muggy.  Inside a paper wrapper, ziplock bag, and paper tong wrapper it's not like this was just sitting out on a shelf.

All that's just a guess, and the tea is still fine.  I'm speculating here why the 7542 might be slightly more intense, and this is a possible explanation.  Since I'm not familiar with a baseline 8582 character, or how those vary from year to year, that's another.  It's even possible that in two years this could seem more intense for transitions to a next character type causing variation, but the other two potential inputs in these past few sentences seems more likely.

Still, I would buy this again, and may do so.  It didn't cost so much and I think it might be quite positive in another half a dozen years.  Or 10; it's funny how sheng can often seem almost there for aging transition level for time periods that just keep extending.

2006 Xiaguan 8653 sheng pu'er, Bangkok stored

I visited that favorite Chinatown shop again, Jip Eu.  No one needs to mention this to my wife, but I re-checked how a 2004 7542 cake from there was transitioning and noticed it was over half gone, and it was so pleasant and improved that I wanted to buy another.  Really I should be sitting on a mountain of such cakes, since the pricing for some is either fair or else favorable, but I mostly just try to keep buying more than I drink.

That shop visit was nice; I don't even remember when I was just in there to hang out.  I met an online contact in there a year or so ago, and stopped by for a couple quick visits to pick up teas for gifts, and maybe an extra tuo here or there.  I might not have stopped to chat since covid started.

it looks like it's transitioning

Talking about sheng prompted Kittichai, the owner, to share some Bing Dao dragonballs, three of them, which I think he said were from 5 year old younger plant material, but decent tea.  They know a local Bing Dao processor, which would definitely help with getting tea that's "real," related to that kind of high demand origin area context.  They don't even try to source or sell Bing Dao, so it's not the typical case of vendors networking to know producers, he just happens to be from an old Chinese tea family, so they know different people.  

Since we were hanging out he brewed some of a Bing Dao cake, which was really nice.  The short sequence of rounds I tried didn't do it justice but I had to go, and at least that was one more example of the type for awareness sake, not that all Bing Dao is supposed to be relatively identical.  I had only remembered trying one version, which may or may not have even been genuine.  I can say more about that experience, and the earlier one, when I get around to mentioning more about trying those dragonballs.

While buying that 7542 I asked if they had older Xiaguan, since I keep buying a tuocha version, and they mentioned this cake.  Selling for around $60 the pricing seemed quite fair, for a 2006 version.  Of course I had no idea of online source pricing, and wasn't inclined to look that up to help with judgment, I just bought those two cakes.  After the review part I mention what turns up when you look for similar age-range versions, which is interesting.  This seems to be a sort of benchmark or known style version, which may be well suited to aging, to the extent that a 16 year old Bangkok-stored version might not be quite there yet, or at least that's pretty much what this review concludes.

Review:

First infusion:  so promising!  The color was so dark it flashed though my mind that I might've accidentally bought a shu, but it's just age transitioned, so the color went dark and into brown and lighter reddish brown.  

There's a bit of a funky edge but a deeper set of flavors is really positive and catchy.  That one part is like catcher's mitt, aged and well-cured leather, of a specific form.  I would guess that might fade over the next two rounds and the rest will develop.  This includes other range like bees wax and dried autumn leaf, nothing completely out of the ordinary for general range, but novel for individual flavor expression not tending to match those.  Jujube is probably a more natural interpretation, dried Chinese date.  This should be really nice.  

Feel is already developing some depth, on the first somewhat light infusion.  I went a little long on that one to get this started, over 15 seconds, which I'll scale back to drink at a normal infusion strength.  Proportion isn't absolutely maxed out but not light either; this might be a reasonable trial.

Second infusion:  that edge is still present; hard to say if it's fading since intensity increased quite a bit, which makes it hard to sort out effect of what comes across most, which changes with intensity.  If "catcher's mitt" makes that hard to place damp stored books is close enough, it's just not exactly it.  This tastes a little like the one library in the University of Hawaii smells, Sinclair.

Warm mineral depth picked up a lot; now that's a main component.  The feel of this tea is really interesting, the way that it's rich, just slightly dry, but also sappy, with an effect that crosses the middle rear of your tongue, and connects with an aftertaste sensation coming from all around your mouth.  It feels like you can taste this with the sides and the roof of your mouth, like it's activating a new range of sensation.  That one rich, heavy, warm fruit tone got stronger too; this tastes more like eating a dried jujube than actually eating one, in a sense.  Aftertaste wouldn't carry over when eating the dried date like this.

Even though the main rounds are coming up, when it will open, clean up, and show off its real potential, I'm already thinking crazy thoughts about this tea.  I should buy another cake, and not post this review.  As a middle-ground solution I might post it but skip mentioning any links to it online, keep it a bit quieter.  All that is getting ahead though; it might not develop to be more positive over further rounds.

Third infusion:  cleaned up a little.  I really like this tea.  All the same description that I've already mentioned still works, but it doesn't do it justice, or really describe why, what is so catchy about this aspect set.  It's in a pretty good place for aging transition; that helps.  It's pretty far through, but the form of that works, the odd edge wasn't coupled with the normal degree of mustiness.  Fermentation transition isn't relatively complete, it doesn't seem, and it's far from optimum; I don't mean that.  It's not just a bit before you can really appreciate it, at the edge of moving on to a better transformation form.  It's already there, where a new range is starting to make some sense, it just doesn't balance like it's going to later.  

If this does clean up further with a couple of months of rest this will be as good as any aged tea version I own a cake of, in relation to match to my preference.  Maybe that's a bit sad, since I think this is still ordinary quality range and aspect form tea, but I tend not to think of it that way.  I own or try whatever I happen to, and that's fine, and doesn't include any $200 and up cakes, and perhaps never will.

Fourth infusion:  not changing, not improving.  It's down to whether some of what I interpreted as a storage related edge really isn't the effect of this not being fully aged transitioned.  At this point it seems likely that in a few more years a more complete change-over might be more positive, maybe even a half dozen.  Why is it always that time-frame?  Probably that's error related to guessing.  In this case this has some of that warmer, deeper aged character, it also just includes a bit of green wood flavor range, which along with that odd edge and feel effect seems to imply it will deepen, smooth out, and gain more of the resinous range, just perhaps not on that shorter time period.

I just re-tried a 7542 version from this shop, a 2004, that shifted pretty fast over a comparable time period, maybe 3 years.  The rough edges I described in the last review were gone.  Flavor intensity dropped along with that, but deeper range is more positive, and smoother richness, versus the slight harshness of mineral and vegetal range.  If this changes that much over the next 3 years it should be an interesting and positive experience. 16 years sounds like a long time, how old this is, especially related to hot and humid local conditions, but I guess initial style and compression also factor in.

Fifth infusion:  a spice tone might be picking up, something hard to pin down.  I might've lost track of an infusion along the way; this really could be six.  My wife and kids are adding considerable background noise and minor drama to this tasting experience, which I've conducted outside to avoid, not really so successfully.  

Sixth infusion:  heavier flavor range includes something that's not as positive, a sort of heavy grease mineral range.  That's more pronounced at this stage for longer infusion times drawing out heavier range better, which makes the form seem different.  Part of it is character transition across rounds, probably, and part just effect from some range standing out more.

I think I was a little overexcited at this experience being novel for me, but it's still in a normal range for being positive (versus negative or neutral), it's just new to me.  Part of the character really is catchy, it just didn't evolve to be the main experience range over further rounds as I hoped.  In a couple of months a longer settling process will have occurred, and I can try it again, and it may be better.  

Later infusions:  it kept going, with a bit of earthiness similar to wild mushroom or some other fungus increasing.  That seemed odd to me, since more often that range is stronger earlier then it fades towards what was more positive in this earlier, the sweeter dried fruit range.  It seemed to be the result of stretching infusion time, which more often brings out heavier mineral flavor range, or changes astringency effect, but in this case related to that.

Expert input

I asked someone with more experience than me--across both sheng exposure and aging scope--about his general impression of this tea, and aging concerns, "Mr. Mopar," who we talked to in two online meetups this year.  He said that he likes the 2005 version better (both are selling through King Tea Mall now, with this version--one seemingly identical--selling for $50, and the 2005 for $58).  That's in the range of what I paid for this, which I took to be a good price, and still do.

I asked Mr. Mopar when he thought this tea would be relatively fully age-transitioned, and he said that might take 25 years or so, at least under normal Taiwan conditions, which could shorten by 3 or 4 years in Malaysian storage, if everything was ideal.  Of course moving off the ideal theme could also relate to ruining the tea potential, not something we discussed.  Bangkok climate range is similar to Malaysia, just as hot and humid most of the time, just with more variation in climate / weather here, so that it's a bit cooler some of the time, just not so much drier.  

Going off that this tea might be relatively completely changed over after 21 years, so in 5 more.  That's not to say that it couldn't be quite positive after 18 or 19, in 2 or 3 more years, but I get it about why seeking out an optimum makes sense when you have a few dozen sheng versions around, or more.

I'll never own tongs of these teas, unless I change approach, and take up selling some.  My tea spending will be capped like in that example of buying a second aged 7542 when one runs down, placing one significant online order per year, and picking up other tea here and there.  I don't really mind not being in the mix for trying a few dozen better versions over a year, just getting to what I get to, and not owning an extra 100 cakes that map out potential consumption over some years.  I own or try what I happen to get to, and not pushing that on to match some expected form or norm works out well, and matches up with my budget limitations.  

In looking up vendor references about this tea type and source options I turned up input from another blogger that does explore a little further, in Mattcha's blog, which I cite in the following section.

Other sources, other input about this tea

In looking up what this is supposed to be a few different themes emerged, that it's one of those benchmark version teas, mapping out a distinct style, that 80s and 90s versions were well regarded, and that teas in this general time-frame range are available and not so expensive.  Then some versions just a little older, specifically the 2001 version, seemed to cost quite a bit more.  Why would that be?  Some years are better regarded, which could factor in, or a version that aged to a relatively ideal place now and not widely available might cost quite a bit more than one 5 years newer that's the opposite of both, not quite ready with more out there on the market.  Let's some examples and what vendors say about them.

King Tea Mall, 2006 version:  this might be relatively identical.  Of course storage changes a lot, and the only information listed with this tea is that of "Guangzhou natural storage," along with the $50 price.  Not much to add, given that's all they say.  Their 2005 version sells for $58, and a 2004 is $140.  Maybe it doesn't matter which supply and demand factors shift that, if years really are so different, but it would be interesting to hear more about that, why the pricing varies in that form.

Teas We Like 8653 mixed set:  they had listed a 2001 version, now sold out, so that pricing isn't available for comparison (although another reference I mention here says what it had been), but they do currently list a Taiwan stored set of related teas, selling for $225:

1 Quarter Cake of 2001-T8653

1 Quarter Cake of 2003-T8653

1 Quarter Cake of 2005-T8653

1 Quarter Cake of 1999 Xiaguan Commission

The last is a tea made in the same style, but not a Xiaguan cake, or so that says.  Their post of the sold out 2001 version places it in relation to the others, and says a little about the general style:

The iron-pressed version of this cake, with its flat edges and characteristic indentations, is particularly sought after nowadays for its favourable aging behavior.

This was our favourite batch of the recent tastings of early 2000s 8653 cakes, and we included it in our Xiaguan Iron Cake QC set. Wrappers are not in perfect condition, as expected for this kind of cake. The taste profile is very slightly smoky, dense, sweet and resinous.

Yunnan Sourcing 2001 8653 version:  listing for $540

Xiaguan's classic 8653 recipe was first developed in 1986 and produced for many years since then. Our offering is the 8653 blend pressed in 2001. The pressing was done with an iron press and the cake is tightly compressed and has a coin-like flat edge.

The 2001 version of this cake is a classic, and the cake which we are offering here has been aged in Kunming since 2001. 15 years of Kunming storage has given this cake an aged feeling but not compromising it's character or powerful taste and cha qi.

Sounds good, but the $540 pricing seems a bit much for most people.  King Tea Mall lists a 2001 version too, but theirs costs $700 (ouch!).  I guess for some people one number is the same as another.  I don't keep track, at all, but it can happen that specific versions get flagged and accepted as classics, as YS mentioned, then demand plays out however it does.

Mattcha's blog tends to look into popular tea versions, and not necessarily hold back from trying out more in-demand, higher cost versions, so I checked if he had mentioned these, and he did earlier in the year, in February:  2001 Teas We Like Iron Zhongcha: An Oil Slick of an Aged Puerh!

That says more about a tea that is like the 8653 but different, and then also compares it to the Teas We Like 2001 8653 version.  He said this about the pricing and availability:

Vs 2001 Xiaguan 8653 Iron Cake from Teas We Like.  I got a few of these cakes when offered for $275.00 for 350g cake. They stopped offering them after only a few months likly due to increased prices to restock? These are very different in almost every way except that they are iron pressed cakes.  The contrast is an interesting comparison.  I don’t think I would have guessed the 2001 Iron Zhongcha to be the 8653 iron cake… it lacks some kind of Xiaguan quality… mainly the smoky bitterness and crotchety crankiness… it just really doesn’t feel like it at all.  

The 2001 Xiaguan 8653 has a much more rich, condensed, flavourful, complex, and powerful taste.  The 2001 Xiaguan 8653 that Teas We Like sold is still not fully aged out so a bit harsh however achieving a nice balance between maintaining its power, concentration and essence while still moving the aging along.  Still ends very bitter.  This 2001 Iron Zhongcha is dry Malaysian stored, the dry storage is really quite nice on this one and is pretty aged out already with still that initial power in the first few infusions with which could still be built upon...

Too much to unpack, but interesting that he comments that 21 years of Taiwan storage left the 8653 "still not fully aged out so a bit harsh."  It's an iron cake, so pressed that much tighter, which would slow the transition a little.  This cake I just tried included next to no bitterness, so it at least seems possible that this version, which is 5 years younger, may have age transitioned that much faster.  

The heat and humidity level in Bangkok is no joke; it's a cool day now, during the rainy season, but it's 91 F according to a notice on my laptop, 33 C per my phone app, with the humidity at 64%, which means something else at that temperature than when it's in the 70s (mid 20s C).  Fungus absolutely thrives here, to the extent that buildings grow black streaks of it, and books mold in normal indoor conditions.  If your cat scratches you that might result in a fungal infection, although I'm 1 for about 100 in happening; I get marked up all the time, and have only had one. 

20 years just isn't there yet for teas benefitting most from a long aging cycle, at least not related to the change process leveling off.  So the decade-ish old drier stored teas I own might not only be partly ruined by transitioning in the wrong form, they may be 20 more years from a good, relatively final aged form.

None of this maps directly to what I experienced, or offers a clear good guess as to what this tea will be like in another half dozen years.  Too many variables enter in, like difference between production years, and storage input.  It's still interesting considering related ideas, product offerings, and accounts of  experiences.

Bangkok Chinatown store Jin Jun Mei

I visited my favorite Chinatown shop not long ago, Jip Eu, the first time in ages.  A really nice local tea enthusiast me me there, someone I've been planning to meet for a few months.  We may have started talking through that now-inactive Bangkok tea tasting group.  Pandemic exposure seems kind of minimal now, dropped back out by everyone doing a couple more months in isolation earlier this year, so it would be fine to meet in real life.

I didn't take pictures of the shop or her.  That visit was rushed, and not everyone likes for their image to be circulated.  I'll introduce her more completely in another post about a real life event, hopefully.  It was great seeing Kittichai and his wife again. 

He let us try a Jin Jun Mei version he described as unconventional for being made of larger bud material, but the same as JJM in other regards.  It was nice, much better than a gaba black tea version I brought for him to try.  Then again I just don't care for gaba teas, maybe related to part of that theme being about a varied feel effect, that I don't really "get."

maybe the last person I met there, Alex Panganovich

a rare picture with both shop owners, and with Ralph

Review:

First infusion:  it's definitely along the lines of Jin Jun Mei.  There are variations within that main type, different oxidation levels or other processing inputs, or maybe tied to plant types or terroir, I'm not clear on that.  But it's not exactly all one thing.  Cindy sells a honey intensive version and another (Wuyi Origin does), and this is warmer and more towards a conventional black tea range than those.  This looks a lot like a version she sells that I've not tried.  It's made from larger plant material, not only that very fine bud, so if anything this is probably atypical, but then it was presented that way.

There's a honey-like flavor in this that is common across a lot of what I've tried for JJM, or at least that I think I recall.  It's a warmer, less bright flavor than in some in this version, like a dark version of honey.  It's quite appealing in both forms, to be clear.  This leans a little towards a softer and milder version of what could rightfully be called malt, not the one that's in Assam, but the range in Ovaltine.  It includes a bit of cocoa too.  As I see it these three inputs balance and define this tea, with more about an underlying warm mineral tone filling in some context.  That's probably going to be the basic review but I should come back to that flavor list theme and fill in more about other aspect range, feel and such, in the next round, once this is properly "opened up."  It is already infused stronger than the typical light round I often start with but it will probably evolve and transition.

It's good; pleasant and complex.  That I already knew from trying it in the shop; just being clear.

Second infusion:  nothing really changed; maybe the mineral tone warmed just a little.  Sweetness is still really nice, and honey and cocoa notes work just as well.  It's nice how this has a relatively rich feel too, and a hint of dryness and those warm tones carry over to a pleasant aftertaste.  It makes the experience seem more complex.  I might be able to strip out some other aspect to describe, especially across a few more infusions, but I think I'll keep this simpler today, stopping short of a 1200 word description.  A bit of some sort of richer dried fruit might fill in a little range beyond the rest, towards dried tamarind but not quite that, or maybe exactly that with the effect of the other flavors mixing with it.  It reminds me a little of the richer versions of dried mango too, if that rings a bell more.

I think since I'm not so in the mood to write out a six infusion cycle today I'll take this review off the rails a bit and compare this to an aged sheng that's not quite brewed out yet, from breakfast.  

But why!?  Probably for no good reason.  It might be interesting seeing a contrast in character, something clear in one that's missing in the other, easier to appreciate for the contrast.  It's an older 2004 version of Dayi 7542 from this shop, or an alleged version of that, given how the first reaction so many people have to such a version presentation is "that's not real!"  Maybe it is, maybe it's not, but whatever experience I'm obtaining from it is real enough.  That tea was at least a half dozen infusions in, on the backside of the infusion cycle, and this is only on it's third, but I was brewing these a lot longer for not pushing the proportion quite as much as I usually do, to absolutely all that fits after the leaves are wet.

A lot of people might not mix these teas related to mixing the secondary "cha qi" feel effects, but since I tend to not really clearly perceive that it's not a concern.

Third infusion:  more of the same for this Jin Jun Mei, but it is evolving.  A bit of sharper edge picks up, not the faint hint of dryness.  It's still definitely nothing comparable to a more conventional black tea range, a solid astringency structure, but the honey and cocoa pull back a little and some tree-bark tone sets in.  There's still a sweetness and smoothness to the base that really sets the context for the rest of the experience.  That part tastes like Jin Jun Mei, for those familiar with that.

Since it's a contrast the aged edge of the 7542 really stands out.  Drank alone that's one input along with others, but alongside this it tastes a lot more like old barn for including it.  Bangkok storage is hot and wet, of course, with an end effect different than what I have experienced as a main theme in Malaysian storage, but towards that.  That never amounted to enough examples to draw the broad conclusions that even rookies tend to express.  Or maybe tea newbies are more likely to go there, to try 3 or 4 examples across a broad range and think they've really got it mapped out.  Compared to older, best-established reference perspectives I am a tea newbie, but at this point it might be fair to say in the middle now instead for exposure, just not far along. 

There's an aged-wood tone that works in this 7542, a variation on what I tend to call aged furniture.  Someone could like that or hate it, but it seems like people tend to develop likes related to aged sheng based on story lines they take up as much as original or even developed preference.  I'm not sure how this fits into any "experienced sheng enthusiast narrative."

Tasting back and forth the honey sweetness and richness of the Jin Jun Mei stands out all the more.  Part of that edge comes across as a hint of sourness more in comparison, for whatever reason.  I think the 7542 is a little thinner in profile, giving up a bit of complexity for being 8 or so infusions along, and a little richness in feel, which might also relate to how some aggressive storage conditions affected it.  It has been through a lot of heat and humidity.  

It's interesting how an underlying mineral tone in both almost matches, but really doesn't.  The version in the 7542 is more like wet stone, leaning a little towards struck-match, with the JJM more like dark wood.  The JJM definitely seems "fresher," it's just strange using that description for this type of tea.

Fourth infusion:  these both brewed for way too long, due to me messing around online versus pushing them to identify flaws, or something such.  At least it will provide a different kind of look at them.

The Jin Jun Mei is good this way, and interesting for being different.  That edge didn't push further towards dryness or sourness, and honey-like sweetness, a touch of cocoa, and dried fruit character is still there, holding its own against a stronger tree-bark edge related to overbrewing it.  By tree-bark I'm thinking something like birch, or maybe closer to cherry, not as light and dry, but not the heavier, earthier thicker oak-tree bark.  Cinnamon starts to pick up, but it's even more noticeable in the next round, after I stopped taking notes.

The 7542 is interesting for really bumping up that one input I'm botching describing, an underlying mineral (a different one) that connects with an aged wood / furniture tone.  That would probably get described in lots of different ways by different people.  I don't see it as related to camphor but that a broad range of aspects seem to get swept together and referred to as that.  The longer infusion worked equally well for both of these; that thinness drops out for this aged sheng, and the overall effect is cool.  It was still slightly strong (brewing them for over a minute), but at this point a 45 second to one minute time might make sense.

Conclusion:

It is what it is!  To me this tea works as a cool variation of a more conventional Jin Jun Mei, a very nice black tea that stands on it's own merits.  It is JJM related to seeming like one (so "very nice" here is intended in a relatively strong sense), just a little different for being made from a related but different material, from larger buds instead.  Unless I've got it wrong Cindy has explained how the two aren't just different age versions of the same plant component, they're a different thing.  But this isn't a research or expert interview oriented reference post, so I'll leave off at saying that.

I could be clearer on whether or not Kittichai even sells this.  He may or may not; they often enough give me interesting teas to try that aren't a part of that theme.  They're not impossible to get ahold of, so someone could phone them up or send an online message to find out.