Myanmar Keng Tung (Shan State) sheng from Noppadol

that outing

I met Noppadol again a month or two ago, the local Thai tea vendor who helped out in running a couple of free tea tastings last year (a part time vendor, who sells teas from Lamphang and from other places).  He passed on another sample of a Myanmar loose sheng that I'm only getting around to first trying and reviewing now.  All I know about the tea is that it's from Meng Pok District, Keng Tung city, Shan State, Myanmar.  That's a good start.  I've been talking a good bit about wild-growth, local-cultivar, old-tradition sheng versions and some of that source context probably applies to this tea but I'll probably never know how much.

Some of the other sheng I've tried from Myanmar has been on the bitter side, which was consistent enough that I took that to relate to an input of a local plant type (just a guess, though).  They were still pleasant, just more bitter than some other sheng versions, with good sweetness to balance that; probably good candidates for setting aside for a couple of years to mellow out a bit, if I had more than a sample of it.

Review

just getting started

On the first infusion it's still a bit light, still opening up.  It's nice; light and subtle, not bitter, complex on the earthy and aromatic side.  It's probably as well to hold off on the aspects list until the next round though.  More naturally grown sheng tends to be milder as astringency and bitterness goes, with more complex flavor; maybe that pattern relates to this tea character.  Or plant type really could have been a main input related to that one aspect and this could be from a different tea plant version.


On the second infusion (brewed stronger, infused for just over 15 seconds to assure the leaves are started) a smokiness emerges.  In general I don't like that flavor aspect in sheng but it might balance out ok as mild as it is in this version.  It's my understanding that it can occur as a natural flavor aspect in sheng, which I assume this is (it seems to be), but it's hard for me to be certain that it didn't pick up any flavor from contact with smoke.  I've heard the claim made that it's easy to tell the difference but one would need a baseline of a couple examples that are definitely each to be more certain.

Beyond that astringency and bitterness are still moderate, lighter than I'm used to from Myanmar sheng.  The feel structure includes a bit of fullness and a slight dryness; that's not bad.  The rest of the flavor is light, mild, and earthy, in a range that would make sense with that smoke aspect.  A dry form of mineral underlies the rest, towards flint (not as simple, light, and dry as limestone, with a bit of unusual character and depth).  Beyond that a mild earthy range could be described in lots of different ways:  as dried wood, as dried hay, etc.

Sweetness and complexity picks up on the third infusion.  The dryness is still evident, and a pronounced underlying mineral layer, but the smoke aspect fades quite a bit.  To me the tea is better, and it may evolve further given it's this early on in an infusion cycle.  The description from the last round still works but the flavors "warm up" a bit; in the next round a different description and aspects set will probably work better.


It hasn't evolved much on the next round; the changes may be gradual from here.  The mineral seems different, warmer in tone.  It's easy to imagine the well-dried hay / aged wood aspect shifting just a little into a more aromatic spice range but it's just not quite there.  There might be a hint of sandalwood aspect, it's just faint enough that it's barely present.  The smoke is fine at this very light level, also hardly noticeable after fading. 

The tea is nice, I'd just prefer a slightly sweeter and more aromatic range more, a touch more floral or even a vague hint of light dried fruit.  Light spice would seem a more natural other range this might cover though.  The complexity is fine, and the feel is nice, and those and a moderate aftertaste make the experience seem to not be thin or shallow.  The flavor range just isn't a great match for my main preference in natural-growth style sheng.

Sweetness picks up even more on the next infusion; it's notably sweet now, especially for being in that general flavor range.  It helps the tea character quite a bit.  With a shift away from that sweetness and warm aromatic range and the hint of smoke and dry mineral increasing instead this could've come across more like the smell of an ash tray.  Instead it moves on to include a faint aromatic aspect just a little towards tobacco; that part works well.  It's not the just-like-tobacco range that some aged shengs pick up, but leaning towards a cigar-tobacco smell just a little.  Someone else might peg that as closer to cedar (aromatic wood).  It's faint enough and mixed in with enough other complexity that it's hard to isolate for a good read. 


It's nice that this tea keeps changing; if affords a chance to experience a broad range of character in the same tea.  It's not far off the last round but an aspect like aromatic wood picked up even more, now more of a dominant aspect.  That range could be interpreted alternately as cedar, redwood, aromatic cigar tobacco, or even sandalwood, although to me one of the first two woods is closest, potentially extending a little into both of the others. 

This is obviously good tea; well-made and from decent material.  The earlier smoke / drier mineral / dried wood flavor range wasn't a great match for my personal preference but it balanced well, the flavors were clean, and the rest of the character was positive, the sweetness, feel, and aftertaste range.  This infusion matches my preference better, and given that it has evolved this far I wouldn't be surprised if it ran through another change before fading.

I tend to not say a lot about "cha-qi" or drug-like effect even if I feel it since I'm not so into that experience but this tea is having an effect.  I just had breakfast too, so that's tempering how that would've came across; it would have been even stronger.  It's a heady sort of buzz, not as close to being stoned on marijuana as some even stronger young sheng versions can bring about, but still notable, and towards that type of experience.  I feel functional, like I could do a lot of different things "on" it.  I just tried a Tea Side 1980 sheng with my friend Sasha, a version he picked up from that owner (which I reviewed before here) and that had more of a sedative effect, a body-feel combined with acting as a tranquilizer.

Bitterness is picking up a little on the next round; odd that kicks in so late.  It always had enough to balance the other range but it's falling into more of a balance I would've expected all along, or maybe even slightly lighter, given that Myanmar sheng seems to include a good bit of that (from what I've tried of it, probably still less than a half-dozen versions of sheng).  Warm mineral still supports aromatic wood tone, not unlike the last round.  It may not have evolved into a range I'd see as a personal favorite but I like this character, more than the smoke and the rest earlier on.  It's warm, sweet, and complex enough that I could imagine someone interpreting this as including a touch of dried fruit as well.

It seems to have settled into a final character, a range it will just transition from due to changes brought on by using longer infusion times.  This must be around infusion 7; not bad.  It probably won't make it to 14, at least not without stretching it by just not giving up, but it's far from finished.  If the flavor stayed positive it would keep producing infusions for as many rounds as it has covered; it's just a matter of where one tends to give up on it and not see the rest as being as positive.  For me I tend to only drink 7 or 8 of these cups at one time, at the most, so I'll probably come back to this in the afternoon and try a few more to see what I make of it.  In that visit with Sasha we tasted 20-some relatively small cups but that was really a bit much.  I just don't feel compelled to get that blasted on tea.

I never did do this description justice related to pointing out how the mouthfeel evolved in an interesting way.  At this point you feel a tenseness at the sides of your mouth, with the main feel extending down the middle of your tongue, extending to a bitterness, tightening, and sweetness effect at the rear of your mouth that lasts forever after drinking the tea.  I've experienced a stronger hui gan effect before (the last part) but it's notable in this, especially so given that the tea doesn't come across as mainly expressing that range of characteristic mix of bitterness, flavor intensity, and sweetness.  It's good tea.

If I hadn't been spoiled by trying so many really nice versions from so many other places in the past half a year this would seem like that much more of a unique experience.  As it all stands I see it as novel, pleasant, and complex, but still kind of normal, and I tend to compare it with what else I liked best, maybe even instead of fully appreciating it for how it is.  The smoke probably helped push me towards that context early on; I'm not so into smoky sheng.  This isn't one, I don't think; in a sheng version I'd consider as smoky sheng that would've been much more pronounced.  I mean instead that it seemed to put me on that page, to set up how I reacted to the tea.

As to tasting process, it really is nice to drink teas a few times to pass on a more complete review impression, to see a tea from a couple of different angles, and account for variance in mood and random changes in impression, like that one.  But if I'm going to be reviewing one or two new teas a week it doesn't work that way, since I don't have that many completely blank one-hour time slots to work with.  It is nice just trying a single tea like this; that uncomplicates things, in relation to doing a lot of comparison tastings.

back at swimming class on a warm-up break

Banzai 2017 Shan Myanmar sheng

Back to this subject, regional versions of sheng.  Noppadol Ariyakrua passed on another Myanmar origin sample two weeks ago at that last tasting in a Bangkok zoo that I'm finally getting to.  It has a cool look, with long, twisted leaves that are mixed in color; should be interesting.

I'll comparison taste it along with some of the 2018 version Lamphang Thai sheng Noppadol gave me awhile back.  He sells both versions, I think, that Thai version through a Lamphang Tea business, and this through Exotic Teas Thailand (with that second group FB page only in Thai).

Thai Lamphang sheng left, Myanmar right.  Both have a cool look.

It might make more sense to compare it to the other Myanmay sheng that I just reviewed but this Thai version should make for an interesting baseline.  It's light and sweet as new sheng goes, intense but not bitter, and complex in flavor.  The Myanmar sheng I tried not so long ago was nice too but a bit heavier on mineral content and bitterness.  It seemed like hanging around a couple years might take the edge off that version a little, even though it was quite drinkable now.


If this tea is very close to that one then the comparison will be more of a contrast, and won't inform anything, but either way I would still get to try the Thai version again.  I think I'll pass on the last of what I have from the loose sample to Huyen, who will be swapping some more Vietnamese sheng with me while someone she knows well visits, a perfect chance to work around shipping.  I'll try to keep this basic; the page and a half flavor by flavor descriptions can be a bit much to write, and probably also to read.

Noppadol at the park tasting (with Sasha checking out a squirrel)

One quick tangent first:  I more or less did a short version of a caffeine detox yesterday (at time of initial draft), all but going off it for one day.  "Detox" isn't the right word; that's a reference to people drinking whatever it is they drink to do more of what the liver and kidney already do.  I'll go to a Bangkok group meeting about that subject in a week; should be interesting.  It seems possible for people to take part in practices that are really healthy, even though they get the reason for why the steps taken are healthy completely wrong, which may apply in this case.

About the caffeine part, I only drank a little tea in the morning and decided to go with a tisane with lunch, that Russian willow herb I have left at work (aka Ivan chay, which I reviewed while investigating Cold War Eastern Germany teas).  A headache set in during the evening, which I wrote off to drinking wine at a parents meeting function at school, but in retrospect I was going through withdrawal.  I really should step the caffeine intake down over this weekend but I'll limit that to just not going overboard.  A few days later, since writing this draft, I've only been drinking tea once most days, and tried out having a tisane with lunch one day instead of tea.  It seems a good idea to offset the normal tendency to keep ramping up caffeine intake by taking a step back once in awhile, not necessarily going off it "cold turkey," but dropping the level enough to only experience limited withdrawal.

Review

After a fast rinse I gave the first round about 15 seconds, slightly on the long side as timing goes for a higher than average proportion I usually go with.  I moderated that for this tasting; the results will be as good and I can get further through rounds drinking two teas, without getting blasted by caffeine intake.  I don't expect much of that crazy cha-qi drug-like effect that came up with tasting aged Thai sheng recently.

Thai sheng left, Myanmar version right (and in following photos)

The Thai version is nice, still a bit light but sweet and pleasant, with good intensity even for being brewed lightly.  That's more why I'm drinking it than to help with comparison, which may or may not work out.  Bitterness is quite moderate, on the low side compared to a lot of young sheng, lower than for some new Yiwu versions.  It's catchy; the floral tone leans towards fruit, or may just be fruit depending on interpretation, maybe closest to dried mango.  There are a lot of kinds of mango, so lots of versions of dried mango too; this would be one of the lighter, brighter, citrus-oriented ones.

The Myanmar version has a really interesting character.  It's more intense, just not in that same bright fruit and floral range.  Part of what is there is floral, but a deeper, richer floral tone.  The main aspect that stands out, not for being strongest but for being the most novel, is a perfume-like effect.  Perfumes span a broad range, depending on what's in them, of course, but they share a common character related to how distilling a scent into an alcohol based carrier limits or changes what was there, funneling it into either a certain range or a certain form of presentation.  This is like that.  There's an interesting earthiness too, a tree-leaf sort of effect, the version that's like freshly fallen leaves in autumn.

Given how sweet and bright that is as forest scents go you can imagine how rich floral tone, fresh fallen leaves, and a bit of distilled essence of lots of things can more or less align.  Not match, but make sense together.  It's a novel effect.  No one would be drinking sheng to seek that range out, because it's not common or typical, but for drinking tea to experience something novel it's perfect.  I'll add more about other aspect range and fill in the rest about taste in the next round.

this Myanmar version (right) is a good bit darker

Second infusion

This really isn't mostly about the Thai version, since I've already reviewed that, so I'll keep this limited about that half.  It's moving towards even more citrus, now a bit lemony.  The sweetness is nice, and intensity, and there's a bit of fruit, floral range, and even a slight creaminess beyond that lemon zest standing out.  This Myanmar tea is interesting, novel, and pleasant too, just in a different way.  Bitterness is limited, with just a little, not like the other version earlier.  Some light astringency gives it a fuller feel, and ties in with the flavor that remains on your tongue after drinking it.

The Myanmar sheng isn't transitioning as much as the earlier range just developing, ramping up.  The overall flavor and feel is really bright and clean; it wouldn't take much mustiness at all to completely ruin the effect of that novel aspect range, but there's none there.  Again the floral tones are rich and perfume-like, maybe as deep and intense as lavender.  What I was interpreting as fallen leaf doesn't ramp up as much, so it's harder to notice, coming across more as part of a warm mineral range now instead.  Some of the feel remains after swallowing the tea, the thickness of it, not so much even a slightly rough astringency, but the flavor lingers on as a much more intense effect.  Again there is a touch more bitterness than in the Thai version but not pronounced as in the other Myanmar sheng I reviewed.

Both of these are those kinds of teas that more poetic reviewers could really do a lot more with describing.  Maybe I'll try that next round; let imagination take over and list out a lot of what may or may not be there, just to communicate the general effect through those.  It doesn't seem to work to address feel and aftertaste very well along with such free-form musings, which seem to more naturally focus on flavor.

Third infusion

Thai version left, Myanmar right

It's interesting that this Myanmar tea is a bit darker (the leaf), and brews a bit darker.  It may have experienced some very wet storage and fast aging in it's first year of life.  It's a 2017, and the Thai version 2018, which may have shifted aspects more than it would have stored elsewhere.  I just saw a description of those Tea Side sheng as being dry-stored in Northern Thailand, which seemed a little odd to me.  In slightly higher elevation areas well away from any sea weather patterns could have it a good bit drier up there, than where I am right now, in Bangkok.

That's 89 F, for people in the States.  63%  RH doesn't feel right at all; it's been raining continually for the last week, including all day yesterday, and it's as muggy as it could be.  They might be measuring that somewhere outside of town where everything being soaked is less of a factor, where fresh air carried in is not affected by that.  Back to the teas.


The Thai version shifts to pick up more mineral; not a bad change.  It gives it a slightly drier effect, but it's still on the soft and somewhat "juicy" side.  The flavors in this version aren't as quite as well-suited for free associating connections as in the last round but here goes.

Citrus is pronounced, still like lemon rind, but moving a little towards sweet grapefruit, the red kind.  It's floral, which I'm not good at connecting to specifics.  The mineral is bright and flinty, towards the edge of metallic, but in a pleasant sense.  Some of the other range is a light, clean, warm earthiness, a bright woodiness a bit like popsicle stick.  It's hard to connect a flavor to the sweetness; it's just sweet, but I suppose closest to sugar cane versus honey.  A different interpretation of some of that range could be a bright, light version of vegetal scope, along the lines of fresh tree leaves, which we can call sugar maple to fill something concrete in.

So why didn't I mention some of that initially?  It's an interpretation, as much as what I actually experience.  Anyone else could "take" all that in a completely different way, and not be more or less right.  It helps describe what the experience is like at the cost of maybe going too far; it's like that, but that's not necessarily a clear and completely accurate description.  Let's leave aside feel and aftertaste and apply the same approach for the Myanmar version.

Perfume like-floral range stands out.  One part of that is rich lavender, another trailing into what the solvent base might contribute, which leads towards an old books scent.  Not the mustiness of a tropical library (like where I used to love studying in at UH Manoa, in Hawaii, where those books were fermenting from being too damp).  It's more like in your parents' attic, or in the old Penn State stacks.  Floral has depth in this; a personal limitation crops up related to covering all that's there.  That fresh fallen leaf effect really did trail more into a warm mineral range, not quite as pronounced as sucking on a penny, but between there and digging up old, wet sandstone.

It would be easy to miss the earthy range in the middle of all that, which is hard to describe.  It's back towards aged leather, connecting with the old books tone, very subdued compared to the floral, and even lighter than the mineral.  The light bitterness isn't so different than biting a tree bud, probably a light hardwood, like hickory.  But if you've tasted a pine needle bud (blue spruce, especially) just subtract some pine from that and the sweet richness and tanginess aren't far off. 

I'll probably just do a fourth infusion and mention additional thoughts, since this seems long enough to me as it is.  Not rambling on and on didn't work out.

Fourth infusion

These lower than stuffed-gaiwan proportions, or really the related slightly extended brewing times, around 15 seconds each, are causing these teas to transition faster than I'm used to.  The Thai version seems to be leveling off a bit in terms of intensity, far from finished, but it's already time to increase infusion timing.  It hasn't transitioned enough to say much more about it; it's still like it was.

The Myanmar sheng too, although that unusual balance of aspect range keeps shifting a little.  This is an unusual tea.  I wouldn't be surprised if something atypical about storage was an input, not in the sense of ruining the tea, or even throwing it off, but related to changing it.  The ordinary continuum of dryer to moister storage conditions has a range of effects that I'm not completely familiar or unfamiliar with, and I can't really pin it down as tied to that.  If I were drinking it blind I might expect it to be 2 or 3 years old versus one.

I say that just because I've been drinking a lot of sheng from different places in Yunnan, and from Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam, lots over the last year even, and this is novel compared to all that.  That novelty could be very pleasant or a bit off depending on preference, but typically tea versions aren't out there on their own like this for character.  More wild growth conditions changes things; that might have been a related input.  It works for me.  I probably like this Thai version a little more but thinking I like it going in carries in a bias.

One more tangent (just not the last, related to this post):  Jeff Fuchs just made some interesting comments about varied inputs leading to sheng character in that tea group I admin for, International Tea Talk, in this post comment:


What my own experiences have been based on have been as much about chatting to locals as they have my own palate experiences. Generally, I'd agree that 'if' all tea was produced (and stored) equally, there are some definite qualities from the more natural environments. I'd agree that they tend to have some softness initially, but carry a second hit at the back of the mouth and tongue, which for me feels like some strength, though the flavours are mild. The 'qi' factor I'd also say carries through more in these natural environments into the bloodstream. Many will say that the Bulang Mountains have some of the most intense red/orange clays of southern Yunnan's tea regions that also affect the mineral and vegetal contents which we may or may not feel. 

Another factor that isn't talked about much is the varietal of the Big Leaf. In Yiwu and parts of Jing Mai, a smaller leaf and generally milder version of the leaf dominate, and thus are known for more mild profiles than the larger 'Menghai' leaves. So much too in the Mandarin vernacular of descriptives that isn't yet widely translated that link the soil, the finish, the initial hit on the palate. Have to say that generally I'm a fan of the Menghai zone of growth and what comes out of the genuinely unmolested mountains. One last little thought from a local buyer in Jing Hong...he mentioned that generally speaking Yiwu teas needed more time to age (if one is interested in aged teas) than did the Menghai offerings. 


If you don't know who Jeff Fuchs is you might look into that; he helped found a tea business, and has written some interesting book and blog content, and recently he's better known for "The Tea Explorer" documentary about the living history of tea.

Jeff Fuchs with a Tibetan Elder (credit the Tea and Mountain Journals)

Conclusions, and a bit about perfume

Not much for conclusions; those teas were nice though.

I gave them another longer infusion and they really are fading.  When people brag of how a tea can stand up to a dozen or more infusions one of two related things may be going on:  they might be using a really high proportion of tea (as I tend to), and flash infusions, or a more typical proportion and but they've just adapted to drinking the tea brewed very lightly, again infused fast.  In my experience it's normal to prefer teas brewed lighter over time; there's a natural transition to being able to experience the aspects better that way, with practice.  Or if someone appreciates feel and aftertaste more than flavor maybe not; they might then continue to go with stronger, longer infusions to accentuate that, at the cost of not optimizing the flavor of the tea.


All that talk of perfume had me look into the subject a little, not in any way that connected directly back to this tasting, but it was interesting, and the themes overlap with tea description.  A sample of some very introductory ideas on it from Wikipedia sketch out where the range of ideas leads:


Perfume oils usually contain tens to hundreds of ingredients and these are typically organized in a perfume for the specific role they will play. These ingredients can be roughly grouped into four groups:

Primary scents (Heart): Can consist of one or a few main ingredients for a certain concept, such as "rose". Alternatively, multiple ingredients can be used together to create an "abstract" primary scent that does not bear a resemblance to a natural ingredient. For instance, jasmine and rose scents are commonly blends for abstract floral fragrances. Cola flavourant is a good example of an abstract primary scent.

Modifiers: These ingredients alter the primary scent to give the perfume a certain desired character: for instance, fruit esters may be included in a floral primary to create a fruity floral; calone and citrus scents can be added to create a "fresher" floral. The cherry scent in cherry cola can be considered a modifier.

Blenders: A large group of ingredients that smooth out the transitions of a perfume between different "layers" or bases. These themselves can be used as a major component of the primary scent. Common blending ingredients include linalool and hydroxycitronellal.

Fixatives: Used to support the primary scent by bolstering it. Many resins, wood scents, and amber bases are used as fixatives.

The top, middle, and base notes of a fragrance may have separate primary scents and supporting ingredients.


Interesting stuff.  The idea of layers and of a top, middle, and base relate to what is recognized first versus later (and also molecule weights, which tie in with that), with some of the rest more about main and supporting scent components.  To some extent what we experience in tasting in tea relates to similar perceived layering or temporal sequence patterns.  But all of these are natural results of the plant character and processing effects, not designed by mixing ingredients.  In terms of temporal sequence I tend to say more about how aftertaste varies from the flavor while drinking a tea (which I don't usually split into parts).  Interpreting flavors as layered or analogous to physically arranged also works, with mineral tones often seeming to function as a base, and bright floral and fruit aspects standing out as a higher range.


We are doing something similar to smelling when we taste tea, or other foods.  Scent is picking up an impression that informs the overall flavor (sensation in the rear lower nasal passages; not exactly the same thing as smelling something), along with what our tongues pick up.  There's only so much the theory, communicated in how perfume development and experience works, can be helpful in the experience of tasting, but tea review descriptions do often draw on those idea frameworks.

Scent training to recognize distinct compounds is something else; that would be interesting and could be potentially useful.  But that would relate more to practicing sensory identification than learning the theory behind it.  I've ran across an interesting looking workshop in Darjeeling that relates to this, borrowing from scent training background to inform tea analysis and blending.  An analytical understanding of how we experience things would seem to only go so far in supporting the subjective appreciation or "liking" part.

Lessons learned from another open Bangkok tea tasting

with Sasha Abramovich (representing Penn State!)

I held a second free, open tea tasting at the Dusit Zoo this past weekend.  That went well.  It's kind of a strange theme but the point of these is just to share tea.  I don't sell tea, and don't even earn advertising revenue from this blog (there are no ads).  Vendors do pass on samples to review, standard enough for blog based review, so that's some compensation.  I share some of those in these events.

It's not the second time I've prepared tea for others in a group setting, the fifth instead.  We did a warm-up tasting in the Benjasiri park before that first event, with only four of us present, to dial in the process.  The first time was for a larger group, for a Random Thainess group theme (two years ago now), where I did a short presentation about tea in Thailand.  I made them an Anxi Tie Kuan Yin and Taiwanese Oriental Beauty, so two oolongs, passing out cups just before the speaking part started.  That was hectic, trying to prepare 25 small cups of tea at one time, in unfamiliar circumstances.

The second time was at another structured-theme event, through CultCheers.  That was attended by 8 people (about the same size as these tastings), covering just a few kinds of tea, where I was both preparing the tea and discussing it for an hour or so.  That was even more hectic, doing both at the same time.  The teas came out well that time, with the tea-background content addressed in good depth for that limited time, even allowing for some attendee input and discussion.  It's interesting how a more educational presentation premise shifts expectations.

I'll mention how this outing went, of course, but the main point here is to cover what works and what doesn't in these events, and at this most recent one in particular.

with Sasha, Nok, and Joseph in the Benjasiri Park; small scale works well

the CultCheers version; a completely different theme

Event description

7 people attended, or 8 including me, the same as at the last tasting.  Noppadol, the local vendor who sells Lampang Teas and others, including a nice Thai version of sheng pu'er, joined again and helped out with providing teas.  He brought nearly half of them, and did a good bit of brewing.

It seems like mentioning this type of event in large local Facebook groups won't work for drawing more attendees.  In a sense that's better; for any more than 10 people the format would have to shift to compensate.

pre-tasting

That location worked well.  I arrived just before 10 and there were already plenty of people in the zoo, and some in that food court.  In a sense people having breakfast around me saved the spots, since they'd move on soon enough.  I picked a place beside the bird enclosure area beside an electrical outlet.  That part was going to be critical for using a kettle, or so I thought.  It turned out that outlet didn't work; in retrospect I might've tested it.


I felt a bit nervous about getting it started once 10:10 rolled around and I was still alone but I had expected that.  It's not an easy place to reach, coupling demands of parking and navigating inside a larger zoo complex.  Three people showed up around 10:15; the tasting was on.

the view out the window behind us:  birds

Background noise was a factor.  At 10:15 that was moderate but it ramped up over the next two hours, as expected.  It's easy to miss how that changes things.  From a lot of previous tasting experience it became clear that level of detail of experiencing the teas would scale back due to that.  Tasting a lot of different teas is also limiting.  Never mind; the point was to try a range of types, and to talk, to meet each other.

The pace was a little hectic, preparing teas.  I had to heat water in a kettle using an outlet somewhere else three times, and bought one extra bottle of water at one point.

This is probably a good place to list what teas we tried, more or less in order, with a general lighter to heavier theme (as much as there was any theme):


Gong Mei:  compressed white tea, a "factory" version, 3 years old.

Nepal white tea (buds and fine leaves):  more to follow about this source in another post; there is a lot more story to cover than about a standard vendor passing on samples.

Compressed Dian Hong, Yunnan black tea (from Moychay):  a nice version, just a little tart for my preference in black teas.

Bao Ing Huan Zhi Guangdong oolong (from Moychay):  in between Dan Cong and Tie Kuan Yin in style.  A nice tea; different.

Dan Cong (Noppadol contributed): I don't know the details, but it was a decent version, good tea but not great, type-typical, so fruity and sweet.

Myanmar sheng (Noppadol contributed):  probably the same as I reviewed previously, or maybe not.  It tasted similar, but I wasn't doing a really focused tasting given this background.

Lincang sheng (Noppadol contributed--no details):  an ok version, but that's not my favorite region origin for sheng.

Lao Man Er shou pu'er, huang pian version (again from Moychay; they were kind of an event sponsor).

Shui Xian Wuyi Yancha (Noppadol contributed):  again type typical, good tea, not exceptional but above average, which is a nice range for Wuyi Yancha (Fujian roasted oolong).


It was a lot.  Noppadol brewed most of the teas he brought, so he was doing a lot of the brewing for the last hour or so.  We kind of stuck to a general lighter to heavier order at first and then later jumped around between types a good bit.

just some of the aftermath

The Moychay-provided tea running theme relates to them providing a lot of teas for review this year (not news to regular readers; many thanks to them again for that).  The tastings are a good chance to use that input to share exposure to a lot of types, all pretty good teas, ranging from basic inexpensive versions to some pretty good stuff.  Most of these ones were more basic than some others I've reviewed--just how it worked out.  That Lao Man Er huang pian shou wasn't; it didn't seem like people were really appreciating the depth and subtlety of that tea, but under the circumstances that's understandable.


The tiny porcelain cups I bought in Jip Eu worked well.  I was concerned those might be too small, even though I've tasted tea from them plenty of times in the past.  It would seem silly to drink Western brewed tea in a half-ounce cup but somehow the large thimble-full makes perfect sense in a Gongfu brewing context.  Even for those being so small one large gaiwan didn't make enough to fill 8 of the cups, but it worked well to "stack" two quick infusions, to brew two and combine them in a sharing pitcher (or beaker-style measuring cup used as one, in this case).  It would have been easy to use two gaiwans for the same tea type too, if it came down to that, but combining subsequent infusions is roughly the same.

Noppadol and the Jip Eu owner, when I bought those small cups

The main point worked out, to share the experience of the teas.  It was nice to have a couple of local Thais join this time, and to meet Larry, who I'd been talking to online for awhile.  It was nice seeing Sasha and Pat from the first event, and nice of Noppadol to help out so much again.  Really everyone contributed their own perspective; meeting all the people was nice part of it.

Attendance / format issues

I'm a little torn between thinking it would be nice to get more people involved and exposed to the teas and thinking 8 is actually an ideal group size.  The same format could work for 10 people but for any more one person doing the brewing would be a problem; splitting into two smaller groups might make sense.  We had two people doing the brewing already, but it was nice trying lots of teas as one small group, round after round for a couple of hours.  We downed a lot of those tiny cups of tea, bordering on too many.


I had a contingency plan for how to scale it up for more people, beyond splitting Noppadol and I up into pouring for separate groups.  I bought a Western teapot on one of those Chinatown visits, and it would have worked to stagger in a couple of types brewed that way.  Making a pint / half liter at one time would speed things up, and two pots worth would fill a lot of tiny tasting cups.  And provide free up time for more heating water or swapping out leaves in a gaiwan.


That leads into a second concern a friend raised, about my role in leading discussion versus letting others share their views on the teas.  I was too busy making tea to keep up more than one person's even share of talking.  I only passed on minimal background about teas, a type and origin country, maybe also asking a question and mentioning a flavor I thought I noticed.


I would really need more help to do more with that, to draw on the front waiter / back waiter form to put more of the basic duties on someone else (or just drink less types of tea).  It might work to split that socializing part out, to do more freestyle tasting before and after, and then mix in more information along with some form of central tasting part.  It was nice keeping participants meeting each other as a main sub-theme, with the extra chatting keeping the tea background information limited.

I had been at a tasting event with Mhee before (the guy in both the first photo in this post and two people to the left of me in the one following), but we were more concentrated on the tea in that event.  Those teas sort of required it; it was an age-sequence (vertical) Yiwu sheng tasting, with differing storage locations adding an extra variable.

that Yiwu tasting last year, a more standard format

Participants passed on suggestions for theme changes at the end:

-hold an event at a tea shop instead (I have some loose plans related to this)

-boost attendance by linking up with a Thai online tea group (maybe not, but it's an option)

-hold a registration confirmation step, and possibly charge attendees

-narrow theme, down to a specific tea type, for example.  If I keep holding these eventually I would; it just makes too much sense not to move to doing that.

traditional shops tend to be small but one might work (Ong Yong Choon)

Lessons learned based on both tasting events

The outdoor theme was really nice, in that first event.  It didn't seem too "off" being in a food court, maybe dressed up a little for background for having a dozen exotic water birds walking around in a pool not that far out the window, but it was noisy.  A source of hot water is critical; that remains a sticking point that hasn't been resolved in ideal fashion yet.

The narrow versus broad tea type theme depends on the audience.  As a cold introduction to better tea broader is better; to really pick out details and fully appreciate the tea aspects narrowing in a bit makes lots more sense.  The same applies to an open chatting themed format versus having one central person guiding focus on the tea experience instead.

That latter group-oriented tea-exploration focus includes its own natural split.  It would work to have someone who really knows the teas cover half the discussion, to present background, and frame what they think is going on with each version for aspects and character.  Or it would be natural to cover that as more even input group discussion, but it would help out a lot if the group was sort of on the same page.  With friends or a group meeting regularly all that should fall together naturally.  In a random-mix intro theme maybe not so much.

review tasting is often round-by-round comparison instead

A second natural split comes in focus on either describing a tea, the typical wine-tasting context, or on just experiencing it, more of how many might take the Gongfu cha ceremonial aspect.  You can converse during most forms of ceremonial tastings, per my understanding, or even during an informal Japanese tea ceremony version, just not a more formal version.  In the most precise, ceremonial form those are about as close to performance of choreographed dance as to a more typical meditative experience.


That was a lot of tea to try in one go.  By the time we'd only covered an aged Gong Mei and Nepalese white--a good version of one; really something to experience by itself--everyone could tell it was going to cover some new ground.  Probably towards the end it started to get to be a bit much, just one new type, version, and experience after another, while the lunch crowds thickened and background noise level kept increasing.

I have some ideas for how to counter some of that, to keep a later event simpler, and more tranquil.  A natural space would be an ideal setting, and I might be able to arrange a really unique location that's tranquil, open, and comfortable but also set up for events. 

If any readers have their own thoughts to share about locations, format, or process I'd be happy to hear those at this related FB page, or sharing photos of your own event would be welcomed in an international themed tea group I'm an admin for.

there are natural open spaces, a bit crowded now since the zoo closes soon

from the day after that tasting, back there again

not all the wildlife is in cages

Holding an open tea tasting in a Bangkok park

A little over a week ago a friend and I, Sasha Abramovich, held that trial run tasting in the Benjasiri park, and this week the open version. It worked out.  I was concerned about rain and too many people showing up and neither happened.  If anything the attendee count was a little low, with 8 people actually joining the tasting, and two more women sitting nearby trying a few rounds of tea along with us (one visiting from China, as chance had it).

The way it played out was a little chaotic, as more ceremonial and theme-specific tea tastings go.  We just kept trying different things, sort of in a lighter to heavier order initially, but even that much structure gave way later.  Noppadol Ariyakura, the vendor who sells those two Lamphang teas I reviewed (with the reviews here), helped bring tea versions and also prepare them (many thanks to him for that).  That worked well for adding more variety and one more layer of discussion, but it also led to a "tasting a lot of different teas" theme, which was fine given the purpose of the event.

A group that small allowed for some other discussion too, personal introductions and such.  To place that related to other tasting themes it will work to talk around that range first, and get back to event details, like what we tried, and how water supply issues worked out.

all but me, and I didn't get a good picture of the two other women

the park background, before the tasting

one of my favorite pictures, her there 4 years ago

Keo as a 5 year old, that same day at that park

Different tea tasting themes

in a Moscow bookstore with Alexander and Dasha (left), Laos Tea "staff"

There are a broad range of intended purposes and process themes a tea tasting might relate to.  I went to an event at a local tea shop that was sort of along this line, at Seven Suns (a local cafe), about trying a broad range of teas.  Another event in Moscow trying Laos Tea products was also about mixing types and casual discussion as much as critical tasting.  That was nice, and those two Laos Tea "staff" were interesting and pleasant to talk to.


One local vertical sheng tasting related to trying different Yiwu versions of different years was the opposite.  Not only was the selection theme tighter, and the brewing process adhered to, but together that led to a more limited and controlled discussion context. It was nice though, just closer to a ceremony in terms of formality than hanging out in a tea bar or a park.  Of course tea cafes vary.


It should work to descibe theme differences more clearly as different factors.


Narrower themes work better for more detailed tasting resolution.  I keep going on about this related to comparison review:  to taste teas most effectively, in the highest resolution, covering a much narrower range is better.  "Young sheng only" is still a bit broad; the closer the types are the easier it is to focus on minor differences versus just trying different things.  Directly comparing two or more very similar teas enables picking out subtle differences in flavor range, the mouth-feel of teas, or the length and character of aftertaste aspects.  Some aspects can serve as markers for quality level, and these might stand out better through such comparison.


Tighter control of parameters helps with more complete and detailed comparison.  Water temperature, brewing time, the water used, tasting timing, should all be very uniform, if closer review is a goal.  But it may not be.  Casual conversation about subjects other than tea isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just doesn't fit well in all event themes. 


Tasting more teas over a varied range works better for a broad introduction.  It just depends on the goals.  To get people introduced to a broad range of types you have to give up focus.  Optimized brewing may or may not be a relevant factor; if half of the point is to support other discussion and conversation de-emphasizing a controlled structure may work better.


The theme may or may not focus on brewing and other tea background as subject matter.  This doesn't necessarily naturally pair with the formal / informal and narrow / broad type divides I just covered.  It would probably mean different things in each context, focusing on much more general issues if the theme is an initial introduction versus narrow type exploration.  It's possible to hold an event that's all about how to prepare tea, investigating how minor differences affect outcome, or serving as a preparation tutorial, or ceremonial aspects. 

Or it would work to push all of that into the background and focus on other aspects of the experience, or even separate discussion.  Somewhere in the middle works too; to cover that as one part of the theme.  We didn't for this; I noted when the brewing wasn't right, if I'd made a mistake, or pointed out trying varied infusion strengths a little, but that was about it.

Sasha explaining something

This event details

We tried more teas than would typically make sense at a more standard tasting, across a broader range.  Before the event I was concerned that attendance level might be too high, due to mentioning the event in a few online groups, so I brought teas that would hold up well to a loose brewing approach, or even Western style brewing.  It seemed possible that it would be necessary to split the attendees into smaller groups.  Of course I expected moderate turn-out anyway; it's just how that sort of thing often goes.

Noppadol brought a number of different teas, so that expanded range.  I'll list out most of what we tried, roughly in order, but here more split between what I brought and teas that he did instead:


2008 shou mei (aged compressed white tea)

Thai Yunnan-style black tea (an old tea tree version from Tea Side)

Lampang area Thai version of sheng pu'er

Menghai shou pu'er (2008 version from Moychay; pretty good shou)

silver needle (Noppadol provided; I don't have details for the teas he supplied)

Lapsang Souchong, a Chinese unsmoked version of a Fujian black tea

Longjing, Chinese green tea


Those might've worked better re-organized in a different order that made more sense.  Noppadol and I didn't really coordinate what we were each going to bring and brew, or plan out the event order.  Once you give up the typical structure and pacing it sort of doesn't matter as much anyway; when slightly overwhelmed by variety being able to notice a finer level of details in the teas more or less drops out.  We really did end up trying a shou and a silver needle back to back, or nearly in direct comparison; that was kind of extreme, even given the chaotic running theme.

Noppadol pouring tea; a squirrel also checked out the tasting in the tree by us

One main concern I had was about a source of hot water, and that factor also threw off uniformity of the tasting.  I brought two small thermoses of hot water, in order to have those to use as a start.  The main plan for water source was for Noppadol to bring a small gas stove, and for us to bring well-suited bottled water, but it turned out that you can't bring a stove into that park (which was not a complete surprise).  Plan B was to use hot water from a vendor, which you get from a concession stand there, as we had in the trial run a week before.  I'm guessing that was unfiltered Bangkok tap water, not unsafe to drink when boiled, but pretty far from ideal, and I definitely wouldn't live on that as a water source.

Noppadol's wife joined us (not at the event; she's not in the pictures), and she heated one round of water out in the parking area, so we switched back and forth between "local water" and spring water.  It's probably as well that we were drinking teas that were flexible about inputs like that, for the most part.  I think as chance had it white teas weren't ever brewed with that park vendor water, which was as well since you could tell the difference it made using it.  I brought a kettle (a "plan C"), but the only power outlets being located in those concession areas would make using one a bit more complicated.

Meeting people; other parts of the event

It was interesting that one guy was from Singapore, another Sweden, and two locals from the US joined.  Sasha, my friend prior to the event, is from Israel last, and his wife and Noppadol are Thais.  A Thai woman sitting next to us tried a number of teas, and a Chinese visitor did as well.  Bangkok is actually like that; people can be from all over.  I had expected some French locals to join who didn't, and a British expat friend said he might drop by.  If a good bit more people had joined the feel would've been different; it wouldn't have worked well to keep it formatted as one group trying teas together.

It was nice keeping the event theme loose; bridging into chatting about background and such, and switching back into tangents about tea processing or types.  We covered so much ground I forgot that I brought a snack to go with the tea, McVitie's Digestives, a British type of cookie that's perfect for tea tasting, very neutral but tasty and nice.


I'm not sure what works as a "lesson learned," or what I'd do differently.  Reining in the tea order or types theme to make more sense might not hurt.  It seems odd to ramp up marketing that sort of event to increase turn-out.  It didn't seem like Thais who saw the notice felt it related to them, but then based on the people I've worked with better loose tea interest isn't as common as it might be here.  Thai FB tea groups have lots of members; there must be lots of exceptions.


I'd like to try an event in a different place, and have a plan for where, but it will take until after this coming holiday weekend to check on that.  I added a survey to draw feedback about where to have a tasting in the International Tea Talk group that I'm an admin for.  It seemed like it might work to get a cafe to hold a related event (as Seven Suns once did), or even to get a few Chinatown shops involved, and set up an informal tasting tour.  At this rate I'd be helping expand tea awareness here bit by bit, but as long as the outings are pleasant and people enjoy them that's not so bad.

a nice space in the local Dusit Zoo that might also work

the animal prison theme is rough but we visit there more for open green spaces