Moychay 2020 Yongde Da Hei Cha "wild" sheng pu'er

 

One more really interesting looking tea version from Moychay (provided by them for review, awhile back, so this review is one of a significant set).  I'm not great with keeping up with origin back-stories, type-typical regional character, or memory in general, but I seem to recall this origin being said to relate to wild source teas (in some cases; such a thing would never be universal).  If so it should be flavorful and a bit unusual, and those are often paired with less bitterness and astringency structure common to other sheng versions.  

That would match what I've just tasted, since I'm writing this after that part, but it was more or less what I expected going in.  I'll go straight to checking what Moychay says about that:

Yongde Da Hei Cha (wild tea from the ancient tea trees of Yongde country) (spring 2020)

"Dark Leaf" was made from the first spring shoots of thousand-year-old tea trees with dark leaves (Da Hay) in March 2020 in Younde District (Lincang County) in the Northwest of Yunnan Province.

In appearance: large, dark-green flagella of twisted leaves. The aroma is intensive, floral-herbaceous. The infusion is transparent with white grapes hue.

The bouquet of ready-made tea is vivid and fresh, multifaceted, herbaceous, with floral, nutty and fruity notes. The fragrance is fresh and tender, deep, floral- herbaceous. The taste is full-bodied and sappy, oily, sweet, a bit tart, with light citrus sourness and lingering finish.

We can just set aside the "thousand year old" claims; once tea trees seem a bit old there's no need to consider specific details beyond that.  Even for "gushu" the brewed tea character is either what you sort of expect and value or it's not.  That description is close enough to what these tasting notes say.  Citrus seemed prominent, and I did shift from initially thinking it might be a touch sour to interpreting that as a bit tart.  

The tea is a bit pricey (on towards $1 / gram); it's more typical for me to comment when value is unusual, when a tea is really good and also inexpensive.  This is hard to place related to a standard retail value.  More-wild teas come up but not many as refined as this; often a flaw or unusual and negative aspect will creep in.  Significant sourness can come up.  When teas are on the rare side, as aged tea versions are, or when you just don't see a lot of examples it can be hard to place a normal retail value.  That's especially true of a better than average version within a less common type.  I wouldn't be buying much of anything in this price range, and just couldn't on my tea budget, but just trying a little of this would cover some of the same function, and the smaller sample sizes aren't so much different from the 100-gram rate.

This "wild tree" type reminds me of a comment by one of the best resources out there, Lawrence Zhang of the Tea Addict's Journal, in saying that he sees them as tisanes more than conventional sheng.  In one sense that's an odd judgement about limited genetic range and style variation, but in another it makes a lot of sense, related to the results often being that different.  That was in a podcast video that's well worth checking out. 

Review:

First infusion:  sweet, aromatic, not relatively bitter or astringent at all; quite pleasant.  It is a little unusual as sheng goes for flavor profile, with extra depth across some fruit range, and just a trace of what could be interpreted as sourness.  I don't think most people would flag that as sourness; part of that interpretation comes from "looking for it."  Since this infusion is very light I can do the flavor-list approach more justice next round.  To me the fruitiness seems to span citrus, covering both a rich, sweet orange and a touch of grapefruit, but there's a lot more going on in this.  I already know that I like this tea but that may relate to being especially open to this particular style, from liking a lot of similar versions in the past.  

Second infusion:  much more intense; that will be easier to work with for analysis.  A really cool creaminess picked up in this.  It's not structured in the way young sheng tends to be, just not exactly thin or loose either.  It's smooth, rich, and creamy instead; that's different.  This feel would be more typical of an oolong.  Fruit is complex and intense, standing out most for flavor range.  One part is citrus, spanning a lot of citrus scope it seems, a little like orange, lemon, and sweet grapefruit.  Then additional fruit is more like peach; definitely different.  

This isn't really sour, although a trace of tartness is unusual.  It comes across as simple in one sense but also more complex than that flavor list yet describes.  Fruit is by far the main input, with very moderate bitterness, and it's hard to identify what else is giving it the effect of complexity.  There's a sort of green wood flavor that connects with the fruit, integrating with it, making it harder to separate out.  Sweetness is really nice; along with the fruit range and this being so approachable it makes the rest work well.

This contains some yellow leaf (huang pian), evident from the appearance; that would add to the mildness and sweetness, although the rest of the material must already be a good bit like that.

Third infusion:  warming a little, with underlying mineral picking up some.  Otherwise it's kind of similar to the last round.  I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't like this tea, but I guess someone looking for a more conventional young sheng profile could be disappointed.  Intensity is ok, and to me that mild bitterness works really well, versus a heavier expression, but it definitely falls short of where better range sheng covers for both.  

The biggest trade-off for this tea is probably aging potential.  This would probably warm and soften a bit more over the next couple of years but I'm not sure it would age well, or even change positively from there to 4-5 years.  There's nothing challenging to transition to something else; that bitterness, astringency, and heavy mineral serves a purpose.  I suppose that's just a guess, but I didn't just start guessing about that kind of thing in the last year, so I've seen some cause and effect play out, a little, just never for the 15 year cycle.

Fourth infusion:  that lemon edge stands out; it shifts proportion of what had already been present a bit.  Even brewed a bit fast and light the intensity is good; the bright, sweet flavor range comes across well.  There's very limited intensity in relation to bitterness or typical feel structure, with this creamy and full instead as I mentioned, but flavor intensity is good.  All that citrus fruit really seems to link to an unusual tongue feel, rounding out that richer fullness, so that there doesn't seem to be a lack of structure.

Fifth infusion:  not shifting so much, brewed slightly longer to see how that works.  Flavor intensity is fine brewed light but the extra punch and creaminess is worth it for adding a bit of infusion time.  In a sense this tea is simple, combining a few aspects and limited range but intense flavor, but it all really works.  It's catchy.  It may not be what everyone loves most but I could drink this every other day.  The brightness and freshness is so nice.

Later infusions:  more than transitioning in character the tea did just fade, but the intensity and creamy mouthfeel hung in there relatively well for a significant number.  Some sheng versions will keep going through late round transitions, and others will just lose a lot of their range, but this seemed to stay in a similar character.

Happy Chinese New Year!

doing some grilling lately; it's never winter in the tropics

that space, perfect for that use

Comparing Yunnan and Russian black and gaba teas

 

Yongde Ye Sheng lower left, Krasnodar black top, Krasnodar gaba lower left

Moychay sent a number of teas for review, which I'll be talking about for a number of weeks, for as slow as I tend to get through sets.  The first review placed a 2020 Jing Mai sheng pu'er in relation to one of my favorite provider's slightly older versions (a 2016 from Tea Mania), and they seemed comparable in quality, both quite good teas.  There's always other higher range, an aspect that might be a little different, but it was quite good, and a good value for the selling point.

These are black teas (which they call red, a not-uncommon reference to the literal Chinese translation of hong cha).  One is a gaba black, processed in a nitrogen environment, causing the compounds that form in transition from conventional-style forms to differ.  In a sense they're not "oxidized" teas then, because oxygen contact has been restricted during processing.  Probably that oxidation process started at picking time, prior to that other processing, so they would be a little bit oxidized, just mostly forming different compounds based on interaction with nitrogen instead of oxygen.  "Gaba" is one such resulting compound, with more on all that in this post (from 2013; I had a lot less experience to work with as a tasting baseline back then).

This won't go any further into what gaba tea is; maybe I'll get back to that more in a later post, since I have two more versions to get to.  Reviewing three teas at once is a lot of ground to cover.  I've reviewed plenty of gaba oolongs before here, but never a black tea.  Oddly one of the best gaba versions I've ever tried was a black tea, a Ruby / Red Jada gaba processed Taiwanese black tea version, shared in a tasting session by a friend, Sasha Abramovich.  Sasha is still around, just not in Bangkok, so I never cross paths with him.  

The gaba oolongs I tried earlier all seemed to include a distinctive sourness that I had trouble adjusting to like.  It tasted a little like an old cardboard box smells, when taken out of a damp form of storage.  One even tasted like asphalt; different.  The Taiwanese gaba black wasn't like either.

I've actually already tried this Yongde black version before, and based on the first try I didn't write any notes, thinking I wouldn't like it.  It was tart instead, not something I like in black teas, although that range does come up.  Then after just a few infusions that tartness faded, transitioning to other complex range, and the tea was quite pleasant.  I had probably judged too soon.

Lately I've been considering if my appreciation for teas isn't too narrow, in rejecting that flavor range like sourness or tartness can be pleasant.  It seems like one might normally run through experience of some standard versions, then sort out which of those might suit preference best, then escalate experience in quality range, and then explore more horizontally, if that last step even comes up.  Of course tea experiences and preference transitions would vary.

Sourness comes up a good bit in relation to "wild-grown" tea versions, presumably tied to different plant type sources.  It could also relate to a flaw in processing or storage, but one particular form of sourness is distinctive, related to what I've tried from Thai teas quite a bit.  I didn't review some Monsoon "wild-origin" teas because they were sour, and I had trouble relating to that.  I just re-tried a Liquid Proust tasting set example of a "wild-origin" Xiaguan sheng, presumably from China, what was quite similar.  Now I'm guessing that it's a variation from the source plant, causing those common effects.  

Kenneth, the owner of Monsoon, mentioned that tea enthusiasts in general seem put off by that sourness from that range of plant-source inputs, but that for whatever reasons some experienced chefs have liked them.  I suppose it does make sense that someone with broad food experience and training could appreciate a very broad range of flavors, without a bias towards a narrow range of styles, as most tea enthusiasts would tend to develop.

meeting Kenneth (waving) and Sasha (right).  sorry other guy; should've taken more snaps.

I'd mentioned one of my favorite sheng versions was from wild tree sources, produced by Kittichai of Jip Eu, a version that was sour (with a Moychay Nannuo sheng also making that list).  It was sour in a slightly different form, but it overlapped, and that tea changed a lot across a relatively short span of time in storage.  I bought a second cake of that tea, to see how I like it once it's fully aged, and so I can keep tasting it from time to time to witness the entire transition process.  It's from 2012 or 13, as I remember, so within another half dozen years (stored in hot and humid conditions in Bangkok) I should see that change.  

The point here is that I really liked that  Thai tea (sheng), in spite of it being sour, I think in part because I'd reached a critical mass of exposure to other forms.  And also because it has "other notes" to experience; it wasn't that it just stood out for only that one sour flavor.  As I've drank through most of 50 grams of a wild Thai black tea from Monsoon I'm more ok with that sourness.  I don't know that I like it, but it's not bad, I can appreciate it as something else to experience.

On with it then.  I'll copy down as much as I can about these teas and look up what I can of descriptions prior to the final edited write-up.

Yongde Ye Sheng, Hong Cha, 2020  (black tea from a relatively natural source,  I think that means).  Pulling up a random vendor description for that area:

https://camellia-sinensis.com/en/blog/new-discovery-pu-er-2019-yongde-da-shan

...After visiting Xishuangbanna, Jasmin traveled up north, towards the region of Pu Er, then to Lincang. In these regions, tea production is more modest and less famous (despite the presence of big names like Bingdao or Xigui). The traffic is much lower. Local buyers are rare here. Despite superb product quality, prices remain much lower than in Xishuangbanna. The Yongde region specifically is one of the few tea producing regions in Yunnan that still escapes the growing turmoil of the terroir and the high rise in prices we have seen in recent years... 

Moychay's description (from that link):

Red tea "Youngde Yesheng Hong Cha" made in 2020 in Youngde County, Yunnan province. The first spring shoots of wild tea trees were used as raw materials...

The bouquet of the ready-made tea is vivid, berry-and-woody with hints of barberry caramel, tropical flowers, aromatic wood resins, and exotic fruits. The fragrance is bright, berry-floral. The taste is rich and juicy, sweetish, with a fine woody tartness, spicy nuances, and the lingering finish.

That's about right.  The selling price seems a bit high compare to the Dian Hong (Yunnan black) I've tried or bought, but then this was a unique version, with market prices for materials shifting final selling prices, and different people could value the experience differently.  

Often Yunnan black teas are made from later harvested material, even sometimes from a middle harvest period between the spring and fall.  Sometimes that means that versions can lose a lot of intensity, but I think in some such cases it still tends to work out well, producing very pleasant versions that just need to be pushed a little harder and can brew out a bit fast.

Krasnodar Red Organic Tea, Spring 2020  I looked for a range of Russian teas in visiting Russia awhile back but only managed to find green tea from that country, and black teas from Georgia.

In appearance: large, reddish-brown, curved leaves with long cuttings and thin tips. The aroma is intensive, floral with a fruity accent. The liquor is transparent, with a shade of yellow amber.

The bouquet of ready-made tea is multifaceted and vivid, fruity-floral with notes of rye bread, spicy herbs and honey biscuit. The aroma is warm, fruity-and-biscuit. The taste is refined and full-bodied, silky and sweet, a bit tart, with berry acidity, spicy nuances and refreshing finish.

Krasnodar Red Gaba Tea (Diagomys), Spring 2020  that gaba version; should be interesting

In appearance: large, reddish-brown, curved leaves with long cuttings and thin tips. The aroma is intensive, floral with a honey accent. The liquor is transparent, with a shade of yellow amber.

The bouquet of ready-made tea is multifaceted and vivid, fruity-floral with honey, biscuit, citrus and spicy notes. The aroma is high and sweet, honey. The taste is refined and full-bodied, oily and sweet, with berry acidity, spicy nuances and long, refreshing finish.

Review:

Yongde black left, Krasodar middle, Krasnodar gaba right, in all photos

Yongde Ye Sheng: that's quite tart; it helps expecting that.  Even though that one aspect is a bit much for me to love the tea knowing that it's coming helps.  Of course the flavor is similar to cranberry, or something along that line.  I'm from a small town called Cranberry, actually (a bit unrelated).  Being a first infusing the aspects aren't fully developed yet, and with tartness that strong the rest isn't standing out.  As I remember the tartness should dominate the second round too, then ease up, and by around the fourth the character will be completely different.

Krasnodar black:  I did not see that coming.  There's a warm, rich, earthy-into-spice sort of complexity in this tea, dominated by pronounced range that's relatively completely unfamiliar to me.  As flavor goes it includes a sort of fresh baked bread warmth, and also slight sourness, but beyond the actual flavor there's an impression of lots of other complex range headed in different directions.  It's like the smell of a very old study (den, private library), with old books, leather, and old clocks and such giving off traces of completely unfamiliar scents, mostly in a warm, rich range, with the odd unfamiliar metallic or aromatic oil based note.  A decent amount of unfamiliar root spice rounds that out.  

The slight sourness leans towards a trace of mustiness, but within the next two rounds that it takes to evolve this to where it will be all that might change completely.  It's interesting, and positive in overall effect in this form.

Krasnodar gaba:  this is kind of the opposite, striking just one particular note (in opposition to the tea prior being a composite of a lot going on).  It's not the straight-sourness I've ran across in the oolongs but it's definitely in the sour range.  It helps having been drinking sour tea for a month or so to adjust to that range.  I just re-tried that Xiaguan wild sheng from Liquid Proust, and the theme really came together as common ground to me, after drinking that Monsoon Thai black at work a number of times.

This banging on the one particular note might be an issue.  I'm sure it will evolve in the next two infusions too, but it's not a great sign having it just show that narrow a range so early.  There is a hint of nice sweetness beyond that, and earthy warmth, towards the range of leather or maybe even cinnamon, but it will need to show through better to isolate and describe it.  

I'm in the habit of using the first round as a starting point, brewing it light to see where things are going, so part of these not evolving fast relates to my own personal approach to brewing.  Anyone using a rinse would skip past all that a different way (I only rinse pu'er and hei cha, as a rule, or maybe something else if an inclination strikes me).

Second infusion:

Yongde De Sheng:  coming in nicely; the next round should be more about where this is going.  It's a bit extra tart for my preference still but much better balanced already.  A lot of the other range is pleasant, even catchy.  This is fruity as black teas go, moving off the cranberry range into richer, sweeter fruit.  It even seems like a hint of citrus rounds that out, along the lines of blood orange, something rich and sweet (like a softer and sweeter version of red grapefruit).

Krasnodar black:  this shifted to become better than I thought it could; so fast.  There's still a "rustic" sort of edge to it, a trace of sourness, but the main range is very complex with pleasant flavors, and clean and sweet.  It's really too much to unpack, and interpretations would vary so much that two people drinking it together would probably be unlikely to agree.  It's interesting how "at the bottom" a mineral edge includes a trace of salt, rounding out the rest.  

I should be able to place this better, related to at least categories like fruit or floral, but the effect is that a lot is going on, making it hard to get a clear read on any one part of it.  That integrates well; that's what makes or breaks a tea this complex in profile, and in this case it works.  I think openness to range beyond a style that's exactly what you expect is also critical; this isn't a standard Chinese black tea form.  I'll pass on a main range to help at least make some sense; I get the effect that a main foundational context flavor is along the line of sweet potato or yam (probably yam, if I remember those right).  Then some earthy and floral range fills that in, along with that unusual mineral form.

Krasnodar gaba:  at least this did evolve a secondary pleasant flavor aspect to join the other, even in balance of input with it.  It's a sort of rose-floral note, as I interpret it.  It has a sweetness and lightness to it that it's also not so far from the Japanse sakura flavor (cherry blossoms), a distinctive floral scent.  A trace of fruit flavor probably is closest to actual cherry too.  If that sourness keeps dropping out (it's essentially secondary, at this point) and more complexity picks up this could be really pleasant.  It gives up a little being tasted next to a complex version of a tea, as if it should somehow match that.  Aspects grouping into a narrower range, or even being less intense, isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it's about how pleasant the combined set and overall effect are, not reaching some sort of score for one or more ranges.  

It is odd how this doesn't show the same earthy range of flavor common to most black tea, or really expressed as a broad range.  That other wild Thai black version I've been mentioning was like that; it just doesn't seem like a black tea.  Then if you can move past that and appreciate it for how it is, versus matching or not meeting expectations, it can be enjoyable.  Of course a tea completely matching your own preference is a different thing; that's going to work better.  But experiencing a range is interesting in a different way, and preferences can broaden over time.

This third round should be interesting, since all three of these seem to have been "heading somewhere," just in different senses.

Third infusion:

interesting color variations; the third doesn't really look like black tea

Yongde Ye Sheng:  that tartness is now a supporting element, maybe even one that someone could miss in interpreting the range of what is going on, although from expecting it that does stand out.  Other fruit and floral range is quite pleasant, with warm tones balancing that out nicely.  There is no noticeable astringency, just a bit of fullness to round out the feel.  I won't be saying a lot about feel or aftertaste range in this review, in part due to that not being pronounced for any of these, and also because comparing three teas narrows the range of focus down, to mostly considering only flavor.  It will probably work better to describe a flavor list for this tea next round.

Krasnodar black:  something distinctive evolved in this; it's cool feeling like I'm one step behind in really describing the range that I'm experiencing.  The main flavor base might still be something close to a well-roasted yam, with the sweetness and warmth that would emerge from that.  Warm mineral also stands out, but I think something along the line of root spice is what I'm talking about.  Or I suppose that could be a bark spice; the other range tied to mineral and the rest tends to mix.  It's hard to describe in detail but this works well because in spite of that complexity, the broad range this is covering, there are no negative aspects to work around.  Flavors are quite clean, sweetness is good, balance works, and none of those components seems off in any way.  A bit of mustiness, or mushroom, or less pleasant mineral would really throw off this final effect.  To play the devils' advocate the set of aspects and overall character is unusual, so not everyone would love it.  Beyond that it really works.

Krasnodar gaba:  compared to the last tea this is even more unusual in character, but what stands out drinking them one after the other is the split in one being complex and the other narrow in aspect-range scope.  This hasn't really shifted further; a pleasant light fruit tone, closest to cherry, stands out most, with some limited warmer range offsetting that.  The rest isn't that warm or heavy, towards cured hay, or even balsa wood.  In the end it's an odd effect, not unbalanced, but for sure not complex.  Pushing the tea and brewing it stronger might help, but that's only going to make that narrow range stronger.  There being some thickness to the feel helps, lending it that touch more complexity.  

The relatively neutral earthy tones are adding intensity to flavor, just in a way that's harder to notice or appreciate in relation to other range (fruit, floral, warm mineral tones, roasted yam).  Related to personal preference I can't say that I love this tea but I sort of get it.  It's not like for the Taiwanese oolong versions where an odd sourness made those hard to appreciate; that part transitioned away, for the most part.

Fourth infusion:

Yongde Ye Sheng:  really this is just getting into the range of character I would like most for this tea, per my last impression.  It will keep improving, but these review notes can't really cover 7 or 8 rounds because I just can't drink that much tea.  And I'm not going to throw some of the brewed tea away; to me that's disrespectful.  I get it how for tea professionals in lots of context that would seem silly, or stupid, or impractical, but I'm a tea drinker, not a tea professional.  If I don't want to discard brewed tea I don't have to.  If this review stops after 5 rounds instead of 8 that works for me.

Fruit range is complex for this tea, and mild earthy tone will keep picking up.  It's hinting a little towards cinnamon, and it will keep developing along that line, with fruit range that's closer to tart dropping out.  

Krasnodar black:  a heavier, deeper flavor keeps increasing.  It's almost like black licorice at this stage, a spice-like aspect.  In one sense this tea is great for exhibiting a lot of complexity, although I guess for the range being limited maybe it wouldn't match what someone expects.  Feel is smooth with some fullness, but there's no astringency.  To me that's positive, but I could imagine an Assam drinker seeing this as too thin.  Not to keep repeating, but the unconventional nature is either very positive or problematic, depending on how one takes that.

Krasnodar gaba:  maybe that last statement applies even more so to this tea.  It's narrower yet in aspect range, in a way that could naturally be interpreted as lacking depth and complexity, even balance.  A limited range of positive flavor does help, the light fruit tone, edging into sweet floral, with other relatively neutral earthier tones, along the lines of cured hay or mild root spice.  It might help to not expect this to be black tea at all.  I'm not sure what other range it maps better to though.  As with the Monsoon Thai black tea, the wild version, or maybe even more so their oolongs, it's kind of on its own page.

For being so mild this might work out well enough brewed "grandpa style," in a tea bottle or glass, left to stay in contact with the water as one drinks it.  That's one of the most traditional forms of brewing used in China, although it's seen as a "lower" form by some who are into Gong Fu practice, the relatively opposite approach of using a high proportion and short times, as I'm brewing these.  I've not been mentioning timing but I've been brewing these for around 15 seconds, maybe just over, plenty of time to get good infusion strength out of them, at these parameters.  For some teas you need to moderate that to offset one or more aspects (astringency, bitterness, or even flavor intensity) but these would all work at different infusion strengths, they are all quite mild.

It might be interesting to "push" them, to brew one more round closer to 30 seconds and see how that goes.  I think as I've been brewing them is more optimum, back at standard infusion strengths.

Fifth infusion:

Yongde Ye Sheng:  tartness picks back up for pushing infusion strength.  It's still pleasant, with a good bit of fruit coming across.  Part of that seems warm and rich to me, something towards dried longan, then other fruit range is lighter and quite different, like apple range, just not that of typical grocery store apples.  As a child we would go pick fresh apples at local orchards (in Western PA), and the range of apple types and flavors extends a lot beyond what is now sold in places like Wal-Mart.  Most of the types were better, as I remember, maybe just not as well-suited for large scale commercial production.  

Since this does include a bit of tartness it reminds me a little of how a fresh cider comes across, the fresh apple juice that naturally ferments as it contacts any air at all.  That can be really catchy, that final effect.  Maybe it's not closest to the range of best cider versions in this, and not nearly that intense, but it's along a similar line.

In tasting it in later rounds it occurred to me that it tastes closest to berry.  Doing reviews based on a single tasting version can miss something like that, the most obvious flavor interpretations, or other range.  I suppose getting a general impression across is the thing anyway, since interpretations would always vary.

Krasnodar black:  one interesting part of this tea has been that the flavor shifts every single round.  A lot of the same base is present, and it only changes so much round to round, but it does transition a lot.  Brewed a little stronger some tart / sour fruit comes out a little more, but the extra intensity also lets it show flavor depth across a broad range.  A lot of that is probably the effect of suggestion, but this reminds me a little more of apple in this round too.  Woodiness picks up a little too, in a range that's not easy to describe.  Coupled with that fruit and tanginess it's closest to types of fresh cut trees that wouldn't be familiar to many, or not so different than the scent of mowing down a "briar patch."  Like crab-apple wood scent, I guess, not that the description would clarify things for many.

Krasnodar gaba:  even with the bump in infusion strength this is still really mild.  It's interesting how there is a split in the range, how the light, sweet fruit and floral range is one part, and that doesn't necessarily connect with a soft and rich base of mild flavors.  Even though the effect is that of a tea without a lot of complexity it still works, those two notes that integrate nicely together.  For pushing the brewed strength the mild cured hay and root spice does edge a little toward a fresh wood tone, but in this case a very neutral version of one.  Like cutting into a sassafrass tree?  My wood harvesting days are so far back I'm just guessing at this point.  Cherry wood matches that fruit aspect, since the cut wood does contain the fruit scent, but I'm talking about the more neutral range instead.  Nothing like pine or oak, if that helps.  Maple wood can be a bit mild but this is even more mild.

Conclusions:

Three very different, interesting teas.  These have in common being unconventional.  I think if someone valued that experience, trying something new, these would work really well for them.  There was nothing really challenging about any of them, for lacking astringency, off flavors, or any negative range.  I suppose if someone dislikes tartness, as I did more in the past, then to some extent that could be a factor.

I personally don't think it's a good or bad thing to have a broad or narrow preference in the range of what you like in tea.  It's just a preference issue, only subjective.  I suppose local tea cultures might influence someone to experience more of one side or the other, to focus in on experiencing the highest quality versions of standard types, or explore common subthemes like aged teas, or else to branch out and try varying origin and styles of teas.  Getting to it all is relatively impossible, but putting focus on making the attempt would vary.

It goes without saying, but all of these teas would be fine brewed Western style.  Maybe even better; sometimes it does work out that mixing the aspect range of the narrow infusion time "slices" can be even more pleasant.  Only experimentation determines that, and as I keep saying personal preference would definitely be a factor.  I'll mess with these to see, but I probably won't check back in to mention that, since I keep moving on to trying other things.

they also sent some teaware; they've been experimenting with making that this year

really interesting character for those pieces; one is more "organic" than I'm used to seeing

Comparing Moychay shou pu'er from Yongde, Menghai, and Lao Man E

I'm reviewing three additional ripe pu'er sent by Sergey Shevelev of Moychay.  I'll be going through a number of their teas since he sent quite a few to try.  I'd say more about that, the range of those, and how that works out with accepting and reviewing a lot of teas from one source (right, those are cakes), but this already runs a little long, so I'll keep that part short. 

I don't see a conflict with receiving tea for review, even in quantity greater than the 10 or 20 gram samples usually sent for review.  I think personal bias affects tea experience more than we could ever completely notice, that expecting or wanting to like a tea--or the opposite--might factor in.  Even though I just describe what I experience expectations could shift that a little.  I don't avoid adding subjective impression to reviews, mentioning if I like teas, as some tea bloggers do.  If I didn't like a tea I wouldn't review it, since it wouldn't make for a very interesting story (maybe unless a tea was bad in an interesting way, which rarely comes up).  If I just didn't like an aspect I'd mention that.

Did I ever mention a video introduction of their company in English?  I have covered visiting their shops in Moscow and St. Petersburg on a trip not long ago, but some of that was in travel themed posts on here (like this trip summary version, which barely mentions tea).

Teas list, reviewed in this post:


Yongde big tea tree 2016

Menghai Qiaomu (wild arbor) 2015

Lao Man E Huang Jin Ye big tree 2017


Descriptions like "wild arbor" and "big trees" can mean different things, but as with vendors who won't discuss tea tree ages (lots of them) it's as well to just describe teas to a limited extent and then evaluate them related to that experience.  Per my understanding usually qiaomu is used to indicate a growing area that's in a more natural state, or located around older growth areas, but not necessarily wild jungle species mixed-plant growing areas.  Links in a later section covering their tea descriptions lead to more background information.

I tasted these teas blind, beyond reading the front label, so I didn't know that the Lao Man E version was a huang pian or yellow leaf produced shou version, or atypical in any way.  Related to what I was saying about expectations it was probably as well to go through that without knowing.  The tea was clearly different than the other two, in more than one way, which these tasting notes cover.  I've reviewed a sheng version of that not so long ago, with more description of what that is in this post.

I'll add clearer photos of these cake labels and the teas and move onto tasting review.

Yongde big tree shou

Menghai Qiaomu (wild arbor)

Lao Man E Huang Jin Ye (huang pian / yellow leaf based shou)

Review

I'll say a little about these teas on the initial infusion but it really makes sense for the main review to start on the second round instead, and these could still transition a good bit into the third.

Yongde left, Menghai upper middle, Lao Man E lower right

The Yongde version is nice, full, rich, and smooth.  It could pick up a bit more aspect complexity, not showing as much in way of different forms of distinctive character as it might, but it may well develop further through another infusion.  It still sticks to within a relatively narrow range of "tastes like shou," that standard earthy and mineral-supported range, but the sweetness and clean flavor range is promising.

The Menghai is a bit deeper in flavor, more towards the earthy range one might describe as towards petroleum or tar, but in a generally good sense, if that makes sense.  I've experienced shou in that flavor range transition to a much sweeter, creamier effect later, so even if that range persists and is seen as negative it may well show this tea to have more potential than the first.

The Lao Man E Huang Jin Ye is more distinctive, but perhaps a bit thinner than the other two.  It's still complex, rich, and clean, and full-flavored (it is shou), but the aspect range is a little narrower and intensity a bit less.  It may still evolve into a more interesting range than the other two since this is only getting started. 

As the youngest it should still suffer the most from the effects of fermentation flavors remaining.  I would have expected that to take the form of rough edges, extra aspects instead of being more subtle, but I suppose it's possible that this tea was intentionally fermented to a lesser degree.  Or a more simple explanation:  this is by far the most whole-leaf of the three, relatively intact instead of chopped, so it may not be a fair comparison using the same infusion times.  Related to how all other teas work out using whole leaves instead of chopped should work out better, since the flavor produced is less over the same brewing time but better, with more infusions possible unless a longer time is used.

We'll see how all that plays out in the next few rounds.  It's a good sign that there was nothing for "off" flavors to get past, no fishiness, sourness, etc., unless someone was really opposed to a bit of petroleum effect in the second tea.

Second infusion

Infusion time was between 15 and 20 seconds (not timed; people into that type of carefully controlled process approach are reading the wrong blog).  I'll probably go with around 10 next round to see if that isn't more appropriate for this proportion, but regular readers will be familiar with the theme of messing around with variation for different reasons.

judging by color that brew intensity is a bit much, but shou can be ok like that

The Yongde tea is nice, not transitioned that much.  I'm reminded of a shou I bought from Yunnan Sourcing awhile back, a "Golden fruit" Taetea version.  It was sweet, clean, and decently complex but not unusual in any particular way, and not quite as complex or novel as it might be.  I wouldn't guess that aging would deepen flavor range in such a tea, but who knows.  I only bought that last year so it's too early to tell.  Both teas are good, and both very approachable, with no negative aspects to speak of, perhaps exactly what some are looking for in shou.  That other particular tea was well-regarded in online reviews and comments, and I did like it, but it came across to me as a bit plain.

The Menghai version is moving from petroleum range to dark wood and spice already, much improved.  It wasn't awful to begin with, really pleasant for my preferences, just unusual.  The feel is a bit thicker, and range of aspects all around a little deeper.  The aftertaste lasts longer than the first and the feel is a bit thicker, in addition to flavor range being more complex.  That complexity extends beyond a touch of fresh crude or tar (no longer the primary flavor range), into dark wood towards spice (the main flavor), with an underlying mineral and trace of char near French roast coffee.  This may be an exceptional tea for coffee lovers; we'll see how it plays out.

I think the Lao Man E is just lower in intensity due to brewing slower, due to not being a chopped tea.  It picks up a good bit of depth in this round but is still more subtle, almost surely brewing slower due to that effect.  If that guess is right the next round will correspond to where these other two are on the infusion cycle now, even though they've been exposed to the exact same infusion times.  And it will take a slightly longer infusion time to match brewed strength, with the tea holding up for a much longer infusion time overall than the other two.

It's clear why, isn't it?  CTC black teas brew out really fast due to being ground, with broken leaves brewing faster than whole versions.  That's why tea bags can get away with using a gram of tea dust to brew a cup, which is ready in 3 to 4 minutes, with the tea essentially spent after that time.  You can stretch a tea bag to get a second infusion but it's not so different than getting a better whole-leaf black tea to last into a third infusion using a standard Western approach and proportion.  It requires a longer brew time and the results aren't typically good.  For someone making tea from low-grade tea bags maybe a second cup being possible and the tea just tasting like something is already "good" results, but I mean the aspects quality drops instead.

Third infusion

I'll go short on the first two teas, around 10 seconds instead, and stick with 15 for the Lao Man E, per the last discussion.

Yongde left, Menghai upper middle, Lao Man E right (in all the photos)

The Yongde tea isn't transitioning much.  It is the lightest and sweetest of the three, clean flavored, and bit light and bright as shou goes (although it still does taste like shou), so some would prefer this over the others.  I'd think most shou drinkers would crave more intensity, more depth, and whatever positive complexity they could get, so maybe would appreciate the other two more.  The earthiness resembles a typical shou profile, dark woods and slate.  That brightness could be interpreted as a trace of fruit but I'm not completely getting that.  The depth of the complexity that is there might come across a little like cocoa, which works well for my preferences.

The Menghai packs a good bit more punch related to intensity and depth of aspects.  I think a fair comparison of these two teas would include letting both sit for another three years and trying them then, since I'd expect a lot of what is going on will give this tea a good starting point for aging transitions.  It's not that problematic fermentation tastes need to drop out, rather in this case that aspects complexity could potentially transition in an interesting and positive direction.  Again someone seeing parts of the dark wood, spice, roasted coffee range char, and petroleum-like aspect as problematic might like those transitioning to sweeter, creamier flavors, which I would expect, to some degree.  Or someone could really be into the tea like this.  It's as close to coffee as any tea ever gets, including matching some of the intensity and complexity in good coffee.  It has some sweetness to it too, and is clean in effect, so the overall balance isn't "off," just quite different than the first.

The Lao Man E really is just starting to open up now, as I suspected.  There's something unusual in the flavor aspects range I won't be doing justice too; always awkward putting that limitation out there.  It's along the lines of aged hardwood, mixed with a much more subtle version of spice than what I'm referring to in the second, with none of the petroleum or coffee char at all.  I'll take a guess:  that spice might be something like sandalwood.  Again I have a suspicion this tea isn't even in the normal full profile range it'll get to in the next infusion.  Brewing more whole leaf shou is a funny thing; it's almost always at least quite broken, if not actually chopped.  It's about as subtle as the first tea but has more going on; it's more unique.  But then I get the impression it hasn't really transitioned to its main range yet.  As with the second an aftertaste effect lingers with this tea, but in a different form.

Editing note:  it is odd leaving these notes in the original form, without describing why that flavor range and intensity is so different, because it's huang pian, or yellow leaf tea.  One would expect it to be milder and sweeter, with flavors in a different range, based on that.

Fourth infusion

trying the teas nice and light; shou works well across a broad range

The Yongde version might be picking up a bit more spice, but otherwise it's unchanged.  It is complex enough that if someone tried to interpret different types of fruit there would be something there to base that on, or the cocoa I'd mentioned, but it comes across as a less broad or distinct flavor set than it might, just as slightly complex.  Again it works well for being a light, clean shou version.

Creaminess picks up a bit in the Menghai version, with that coffee char effect moving more into a Guiness stout effect.  The flavors "clean up" a bit too, with some of the earthiness one might interpret as petroleum related dropping out.  The spice range doesn't really develop but that sweeter, creamier effect is nice, and it all balances the best of any infusion.  It's an interesting version of shou, to me a very positive one, but it might take a shou drinker to relate to it, where the first isn't hard to relate to at all, just slightly less complex and interesting.

The Lao Man E changed the most this round; not really surprising.  The feel of this tea is really something; about as thick as teas tend to get.  And the aftertaste has an unusual character, maybe just related to being intense, or maybe there's more to it, something else adding to that effect.  Related to flavors range the tea is a bit woody, with an unusual spice range persisting.  It moved from aged hardwood into autumn leaf, with the spice range muting just a little.  Maybe that's sandalwood or maybe that's not; it's been a long time since I've burned incense. 

More than gets communicated about any one of these aspects this tea really comes together as an overall experience.  With that flavor being a little more subtle than the other two I wouldn't be surprised if it ages in terms of developing, of aging and fermenting a bit more in a more conventional sense, instead of already-present fermentation related aspects settling out or transitioning.  Of course that's just a guess; I suppose it could just fade.

Fifth infusion

Yongde lower left, Menghai upper middle, Lao Man E lower right

My patience for making tasting notes is fading faster than these teas are so this might be it.  It will be interesting seeing how these three continue on and transition in later rounds, or which fades faster, but even though I'm using small tasting gaiwans for this I don't think I'm going to make it through nearly 30 cups of tea to get there.  Of course I'm really feeling these teas already; I don't talk about "qi" all that much in reviews but one or more of these contributes more of that than is typical.  That's one thing you give up in combined tasting; I don't know which tea version is causing that effect.  Having cakes to work from versus small samples I'll experience each on its own later but probably will never check back in about that; there's just too much to say about too many things.

The Yongde might be fading a bit already.  It would be possible to bump up infusion time a little (I only let these go around 15 seconds, still on relatively short times), but it may be on the downhill side.  It's not as if it only has a couple more infusions left in it, but character will change based on the effect of using longer times.  It might be as positive as it's been, with sweetness and cocoa coming out just a little more, but the overall range might thin a little too.

The Menghai is thinning just a little too; these teas probably are ready for over 20 second infusion times.  They work well a little thinner too; it's not as if there's not still a lot going on.  I probably like shou brewed a bit stronger than some, not thin at all, since to me that effect is part of the appeal of the type.  Someone else might push it further and drink tea made more like coffee, so the point here is that I tend to drink it prepared as more intense than other tea types.  I like sheng on the very thin side, plenty intense prepared that way.  Aspects aren't transitioning enough to say more about that.

I don't think the Lao Man E is lightening, although it was more subtle in the earlier rounds too.  It's more that the three evened up for intensity and infusion strength in this round.  I should probably let the three go for a bit over 20 seconds for one more round to say where transition seems to be headed before leaving off.  I've essentially already expressed it but this Lao Man E isn't as exceptional in terms of flavor (that's smooth and a bit light, with limited compensating complexity, just a little different for what's there), but the overall effect related to all the other aspects is really unique.  I've never experienced a shou with a feel this full and the aftertaste experience is quite persistent, and somehow unusual beyond that.

Sixth infusion (this really will be it)

This tea's flavor (the Yongde) is starting to transition to slightly woodier, normal for later rounds.  It would've been possible to drink these teas quite a bit lighter and they'd be at this point a few infusions later, but that's just a matter of preference.  As I said I like shou on the stronger side compared to most other teas.  Aged shou mei can be comparable; those can be nice brewed so thick that the aspects would be just as nice lighter, to stress the feel effect, and just to experience the intensity.

The Menghai is where a thinner, less complex shou might have been the whole time.  Woodiness also picks up in this tea, and complexity thins.  It's still clean and positive, and it still balances well, but the overall range drops back.

The thickness of the Lao Man E stands out in comparison to the others, and the intensity on those other levels, the complexity and aftertaste.  It is holding up better, lasting longer, or put another way just brewing slower.  The three teas are the closest to each other that they've been in flavor range.  This still has that one woodiness related spice effect that gives it a bit of extra depth. 

a Loa Man E leaf, with a baht for scale (about the size of a penny)

Conclusion

I'll add the vendor descriptions here to see what they thought.  I've not read them; back to the blind tasting idea.  There's a chance they've flagged a couple of flavor range aspects I'd agree with that could change my taste-list description by that little bit, after trying them again and thinking it through.  Tasting a tea only once, and especially tasting three at once, tends to diminish overall resolution of what you pick up.  These teas have been around here for awhile, a month and a half or so, so they're not going through that transition related to shipping throwing them off, but I'd expect exposure to this hot, humid Bangkok air and another month or two of storage will get them all opened up a bit more.

the high is 33 C today, but it's 31 right now.  balmy!

I liked all three teas; they were all just quite different.  The Yongde might be preferable to people who like a lighter, sweeter shou, and the Menghai showed the most complexity at this point, at least in terms of flavor.  That flavor range (dark wood, spice, slight char, initial petroleum transitioning to Guiness stout creaminess) might not be for everyone but I'd think shou lovers would relate well to it, and I'd expect it to be even more developed and positive in another couple of years.


The Lao Man E is something else; not necessarily the best of the three related to flavors, at least at this point, but with the most aspects complexity by far counting all range.  People will sometimes convey how flavors that could be interpreted as a bit off are an expression of shou potential, of how that touch of petroleum in the Menghai could transition well to something else, and I have experienced that in other shou.  The Lao Man E is subtle, so something else would have to be going on for the tea to develop further. 

Of course I found out after the tasting session that it was huang pian (yellow leaf), made from a different type of leaf source.  I still wonder if it couldn't have been fermented less, but that factor seems likely to have caused that unique character, the subtlety, and enabled that unusual flavor range to emerge, the spice.  I'm really not sure what all that means for aging, or if the intensity of other aspects really means it has more potential for aging or not.  That kind of doesn't match conventional wisdom with sheng, where a tea being intense on the undrinkable side is often regarded as showing positive potential for aging.  I'll say more about that in the form of an example after I touch on the Moychay site descriptions.

Moychay site descriptions

These citations are limited mostly to descriptions of taste, including reference to current price, since it was also there.  All of these are in-house, commissioned productions, not resold or re-labeled teas.


Yongde Dashu Shu Cha (Moychay.com, 2016), 100 g., $9.04

Ripe puer «Yongde Big Tee Trees, grown in Yongde district (Lincang County)»:  The bouquet of brewed tea is mature, with notes of wood, prunes and baked chestnuts. The aroma is warm and deep, nutty with notes of prunes. The taste is full-bodied and sappy, velvety, sweetish, with light fruity sourness and lingering finish.


Menghai Qiaomu Shu Cha (Moychay.com, 2015), 357 g. $25.37

Ripe puer «Big Tee Trees, grown in Menghai County (Xishuangbanna) »The bouquet of brewed tea is mature, nutty, with notes of wood, prunes, rustic bread and baked chestnuts. The aroma is warm and deep, nutty with notes of nuts and prunes. The taste is full-bodied and sappy, velvety, sweetish, with light fruity sourness and lingering finish.


Lao Man E Huang Jian Ye (Moychay.com, 2017), 357 g. $45.93

Ripe puer «Golden Leaf, grown near Lao Man E village (Mount Bulangshan, Menghai county, Xishuangbanna)» The bouquet of brewed tea is mature, with notes of wood, prunes, pastry and baked chestnuts. The aroma is warm and deep, nutty with notes of smoked prunes. The taste is full-bodied and sappy, velvety, sweetish, with light fruity sourness and lingering finish.


A few things stand out.  The short version about huang pian, or yellow / golden leaf source tea:  it's the older or yellowed leaves harvested, also referred to as "farmer's tea."  In one sense it's a lower grade of material and in another it's just a different thing.  The taste is a bit sweeter, and milder, slightly earthy, and just different.  That explains why a cake of tea from a highly sought after region is priced within the normal range of medium quality level pu'er (higher than average for medium quality teas or factory teas, but lower than one would expect from that area).


Beyond that part all the descriptions sound a bit the same; they differ but they overlap.  They do vary, and I don't really disagree with them outlining common ground (they are all shou; the type runs along the same lines), or the specifics in those descriptions, although I described each relatively differently.  The wood I did mention, although it seems too vague to just leave that at wood, since that covers so much range.  Baked chestnuts could really apply to a lot of shou; lots of versions have a rich fullness that extends to sweetness that could be interpreted as that.  The prunes, pastry and the rest; why not.  As shou tends to go all three were quite complex and that's going to come across differently to lots of people.  Once you think prune or chestnut you're going to "get" that.  It seems as well to not dwell on the longish review section and these interpretations not overlapping on some finer points.


Those teas seem a good value, related to pricing versus what I'd expected.  Shou does often run a bit on the inexpensive side compared to sheng but all three had interesting and very uniformly positive character.  The first, the Yongde, seemed like a good light version of an "everyday drinker," giving up a little in uniqueness and complexity to the others, but probably exactly what some people would be looking for.  The second seemed like it has great potential to even out into a really complex and interesting tea in a couple more years, and it's quite nice now.  The third was the most novel, and suitable for people looking for something different.  I'm not sure if its relatively subtle nature means that it might not gain further complexity with more time or transition much but it has unique character already.  I've not had any shou with a thicker feel or more pronounced aftertaste, and that sandalwood spice range aspect (for lack of a more informed wood-spice guess) is pretty cool.

Those last two Moychay loose shou I tried may have been slightly more developed, with just a little more depth, but then having a good number of extra years to rest may have evened them out and allowed them to transition any slightly rough edges into interesting complexity.  These three versions were more than ready now, not off in any way, not expressing "processing tastes" that needed time to fade.  If anything per one strand of conventional wisdom they should be a little edgier or more strange in different ways to have the best character to age.  You definitely don't want your shou to taste like fish or charcoal in order for that to fade, though, and I'm not completely sure what odd character they should have.

One last tangent about aging sheng

While I'm on the subject of aging I'll mention something only vaguely related to make a comparable point; it's not as if this is already running long.  I just tried a 2014 Jia Ji Dayi tuocha I bought a couple of years ago that tasted a bit like aspirin back then.  I'll cite a description from that:

It's smokey, a little bitter, right in the middle between chewing on an aspirin and drinking a softer green tea version, something decent. 

from two years ago; it's the same but slightly darker

The tea is really nice now, based on trying it again a few days ago.  The bitterness is largely faded, the smoke moderated, and richer, smoother, sweeter tones have picked up.  Earlier rounds are nice, balanced and catchy, but later ones include a cool pine needle type of effect, not so different than one that shows up buds heavy black teas.  I'd guess this tea would have been much slower to transition in a less hot and humid environment, but at this rate in a couple more years it'll really be something.  I should buy another half dozen, if I can find them.  My understanding is that shou pu'er aging is completely different, as I've already described earlier in the post.

So the tie-in here was that after experiencing some transition patterns a tea drinker can sort of predict a pu'er's future, to a limited extent.  I've just described some transition from a sheng, in this case from less drinkable to quite pleasant, and I've been going on about that subject for nearly a year.  I don't have the same level of exposure with shou but I've been through a little with that.  Four years ago I bought three Dayi 7572 cakes in a yearly production sequence  as a step towards that.  I haven't been focusing on shou much but I've tried some in between, although maybe only a dozen or so. 

These last five Moychay shou versions have been a great experience in continuing on with exploration.  I can say if the guesses about aging these three works out as expected in a couple of years, but I do have other versions still to try, so more to go on related to experiencing different versions and aging effects.