2009 Jinggu Cloud Mountain sheng compared to Mansa huang pian

2009 Jinggu left, 2017 Mansa huang pian right

On the face of it this comparison tasting makes no sense.  One tea is much older, 10 years aged versus 2, one is huang pian (yellow leaf, made from older leaves that have lost their green color, as one sees on other trees and plant types), and both are from different areas.  Maybe it actually doesn't work. 

Part of the idea is trying as similar teas as I have in sample sets (with these from Tea Mania, contributed by Peter Pocjit to experience and review).  It's not as much a stretch as it might seem.  Both should be on the mellow side, soft and approachable as younger sheng range usually goes, with earthy, complex, but perhaps somewhat subtle flavors.  Both should have a relatively rich feel.  They both just get there in completely different ways, assuming that all that is correct.

I like huang pian; the experiences I've had with it are positive (there are reviews of different versions in this blog).  Now that I think of it I have a nice version from Laos that I could taste this one alongside, that Anna of Kinnari Tea passed on awhile back (a fall 2017 version).  If I like a tea enough I feel bad about drinking the last of it, thinking that sharing it later could involve getting more out of the experience, so that someone else could try it too.  Huang pian are softer, not bitter, trading out intensity of young sheng to gain sweetness and approachable character, with flavor range varying a little.

I've reviewed a Jinggu Cloud Mountain version not so long ago (a 2011 version from Tea Mania here, and a Jinggu from a Liquid Proust sample set here).  It could be interesting to go back and check this result against that but direct comparison of different versions of different ages wouldn't mean much.  I could only guess how similar both were initially, so the aging factor would never really be clear either.

Even if both are quite different I've done so many comparisons that it's normal enough to relate how two very different teas are at the same time.  It involves using more mental and experiential space, to take it all in and relate it, and range of aspects covered tends to narrow a bit in such cases.  I often focus more on flavor, and let description of other range like aftertaste, mouthfeel, or balance of varied aspects drop out to some extent.  If two teas are very similar it's easy to relate what the shared range is and move onto much finer levels of details.

It goes without saying but the degree of aging in a 2009 version of sheng varies a lot, related to where the tea has been and what the storage conditions were.  Something about that will probably come up in the vendor description but I tend to not check those before tasting, and won't in this case.  To fill in expectation teas from this vendor are usually quite solid, relatively high up the quality level, typically with very positive character, also sold to emphasize value, based in part on a relatively more direct sourcing approach. 

Vendors can visit China, or elsewhere, and establish ties with local producers and still sell teas for the high end of retail market value, just increasing their own profit margin, or they can choose to make higher than average value part of the offering.  Sometimes vendors will sell teas for less initially, build up a brand and customer base, then increase pricing points to standard market levels.  I'm not sure if that approach makes any sense or not, but I have seen it repeat in a number of cases.

Vendor descriptions, what the teas are:

Jinggu Cloud Mountain 2009

For this Pu-Erh, tea leaves from the remote and lonely  Jinggu Mountains were used and processed into a blend with cultured tea. By using Gushu and Taidi (cultured tea) this Pu-Erh can be drunk young as well as stored.

The Gushu tea leaves come from a special mountain which is called Cloud Mountain and is located in the west of the district Jinggu. The tea gardens on this mountain were created and cultivated over 400 years ago by the Wai Minority. However, this area was abandoned over 100 years ago because of the adverse living conditions and the tea gardens were forgotten. Only a few years ago, the wild tea gardens were rediscovered.  

Every spring, the descendants of the Wai visit Cloud Mountain each spring to harvest tea and make Maocha. The harvest workers cover themselves with provisions and stay for about two months on Cloud Mountain to harvest and process the tea leaves. Because only once a year is harvested, the tea trees can recover well and do not need to be fertilized. This leads to a natural and mineral flavor which is further expanded by storage. 


This tea is sold out, but it had sold for $39 per 357 gram cake.  Blending inputs is one way to achieve more overall character balance and also drop the cost of the tea, versus using only the more expensive type version.  Kind of a shame this isn't available; that was a really novel tea (described following), and an incredible value for that pricing level.  This doesn't mention storage location but it seems to have aged well for wherever it was, transitioning quite a bit without picking up any sort of damp-storage flavor.  That doesn't necessarily have to be mustiness, or that touch of basement smell I've ran across in Malaysian tea versions; teas from here (Bangkok) often seem much more pleasant after airing out for a few months.


Mansa Gushu Spring 2017 Huang Pian

For this Zhuancha we used Huang Pian from the popular Mansa Gushu 2017. The tea trees in Mansa are partly shaded and partly at the blazing sun. This special condition results in a particularly balanced aroma. The shaded tea leaves are particularly flowery in the aroma, while the sun-kissed tea leaves provide a strong Cha Qi.

This tea was stored in Xishuangbanna for two years and is therefore quiet ripe for its age.


The sample label didn't mention gushu; it's harder to pin down the overlap in range from old-plant sources for yellow leaves anyway.  This tea is selling for $30 per 250 gram brick, about the same as the other version had.  This is still a great value tea, based on having just tried and reviewed both, but that other version was on another level, kind of just priced wrong, seen one way, way too good to be selling for that.  Huang pian tends to sell for less, and younger tea versions do, and for what this is moderate pricing is more than fair.

Review:

Jinggu left, Mansa right.  Normal that the older tea is darker.

2009 Jinggu Cloud Mountain:  I don't usually but I tasted the rinse to see where this is going to be.  It's quite warm, rich, and sweet.  This couldn't have been dry stored; no matter where it started out it seems too far along in aging level, only from tasting the rinse.

In trying the first actual rinse there's a really catchy flavor aspect to this, towards sweet and mild bark or root spice.  Or maybe spanning some range; it's complex.  The root spice stands out most, close to root beer / sassafrass, sweet and "round," not the dryer and more mineral range ginseng, or warm and earthier turmeric, which is almost a little towards ginger.  There's no astringency or bitterness, although early on (before it's the right time to tell, really) feel seems reasonably thick.  For being a 2009 version this is relatively fermented, but then I've been drinking some more compressed tuochas or dry stored teas that haven't changed quickly, and less of conventional (not dry) stored sheng from a decade or more back, so maybe I'm biased. 

It's nice how complex that flavor is, how a warm mineral base supports it, and how pleasant the complex spice range is.  It overlaps a little with warmer wood tones, damp summer forest floor, but not in the same way woodier versions of sheng come across.  The spice stands out most, which is a totally different effect than when cedar, cured hardwood, or greener wood tones are primary.


2017 Mansa Huang Pian:  this is in a similar general range for overall character but completely different at the same time; that makes for an interesting effect in direct comparison.  It is also soft, on the rich side, with a good bit of sweetness (not quite as sweet as the other, in this infusion at least), but with a lighter flavor range.  That other tea didn't age to become subtle, which can happen when a tea wasn't suitable for aging initially or when it's in an awkward in-between phase of switching over from a slightly aged tea to a truly aged version (or younger into teen years; it just depends on the version starting point and storage conditions).

Unpacking flavor range isn't as easy.  It's a bit more towards cured hay, with a very mild and subtle floral range aspect, in between chyrsanthemum and chamomile (which are sweeter and even more subtle, respectively).  Feel isn't thin but not as rich as in the other tea's case.  This might just be developing slower due to being compressed differently, pressed more into sheets, as occurs with shou mei white tea cake versions.  The other tea opened right up, not overly compressed as sheng goes, which probably supports aging faster, and definitely makes it easier to prepare the tea for brewing.

Second infusion

I'll give these both around 15 seconds to infuse, a good bit longer than I usually infuse younger sheng, related to using a moderate proportion, both being on the subtle side, and getting the huang pian to open up more.

2009 Jinggu Cloud Mountain:  earthiness picks up; the wood-tone overlap increases related to brewing this a bit stronger (and natural development across rounds, but I bet it would stand out much less brewed half as long).  It doesn't throw off the effect but this is brewed longer than optimum.  Root spice flavor is still a main component but earthiness ramped up, warm mineral is heavier (pushing a little towards rusted metal), and the forest-floor effect deepened.  Feel picks up trace of roughness; I think it would feel smoother at a slightly lighter infusion level too. 

This is definitely different as sheng goes, unique in character.  Sweetness level helps all that work. It seems less fully-aged in this form, showing this set of aspects, with a bit more of a younger vegetal edge, just nothing like the sheng I've been reviewing.  It comes across as more aged than the 2006 Fengqing tuocha I just reviewed, although there are parallels in character, and I like both.  It's odd saying that it's vegetal when I've only described forest floor as remotely in that range, which one would naturally see as "earthy" instead, so in that I'm talking about a trace of younger wood flavor and feel that is ramping up.  For as much as this transitioned I'd expect it will be different again in the next round, that it's "going somewhere" for evolving character.

2017 Mansa Huang Pian:  this has evolved too; a trace of a catchy spice aspect picks up, more towards a floral tone.  It reminds me of pandan leaf, one of my favorite Thai (tropical) tisanes, how that's a leaf that also tastes a good bit like Froot Loops.  This is still quite soft and subtle in comparison with the other tea version; it covers a good bit less range.  It's nice that the flavor gained complexity and became more positive but there's less going on.  The feel isn't thin, not exactly thick or structured per normal sheng range, but the thickness it has is positive. 

Part of that character reminds me of how white teas can come across, not the bright, more intense young white range, which can be quite floral or even fruity, but more related to aged whites.  It's not quite onto the war dried fruit range a more fully aged shou mei might exhibit, more like a 4 or 5 year old version, transitioned but not to that stage.  It would work much better for people who can appreciate a subtle tea version; it's definitely not intense.  Pushing it, using a higher proportion or brewing longer, would only go so far in drawing that out.

Third infusion

2009 Jinggu Cloud Mountain:  this balance is much better for using a more standard infusion time, around 10 seconds.  That spice range balances nicely with the sweetness, mineral range, and complex wood range, a touch of forest floor along with some hardwood, now more towards cherry.  Cherry wood, and other hardwoods, can and do smell quite aromatic and sweet; this matches that.  The effect varies a lot between fresh cut wood and that aged for a year or so and this actually seems to span that range.  It's a lot going on, root spice, underlying mineral, wood tone, a touch of fruit, with a very complex feel, and nicely extended aftertaste.  It's nice not saying "this will be really nice in a few years;" it's nice now.  I think it will keep transitioning and picking up depth, converting that younger wood tone to deeper and warmer flavors, and structured feel to a richer, smoother, but still complex feel.  But this balance works as it is, just in a different way.


2017 Mansa huang pian:  this is even fruitier.  There's an aspect I had trouble connecting at first, one that reminds me of a very pleasant experience from my past.  Outside the Sinclair library in the University of Hawaii at Manoa campus there's a type of fig tree that produces very sweet, rich, complex flavored fruit (not easy to sort out but one can explore plants on that campus more here).  It's not something you can actually eat, I don't think, but is very pleasant to smell when it's at the right stage.  That's it!  The overall range isn't as complex as the other tea, and the feel isn't as thick, but it helps that this taste is so pleasant.

I don't make much of it here but I attended UH Manao last, Colorado State University just before then, and Penn State awhile back, to study philosophy and industrial engineering.  No point related to tea, of course.

that library balcony; a favorite studying spot

maybe one of those two, or maybe I'm remembering wrong; you can "walk" around the area here

The next infusion wasn't so different.  These teas are going to keep evolving some, and minor variations in brewing approach will shift the balance of experienced aspects, feel, aftertaste, etc., especially related to the Jinggu version being so complex.  I got a little sidetracked looking around at maps and photos of UH and now I don't feel like grinding out another few infusions worth of notes that sound similar but not exactly the same. 

I'll strike a balance by describing the infusion after that one, up to round 5 now, and let it go after that.  It is interesting how late round transitions go in experiencing a tea, how different or positive, and brewing a lot of pleasant infusions is a good sign for quality.  But I can't relate to reviewers that describe 10 rounds of the same tea as all somewhat different; it just doesn't work out that way for me.  Each round connects to the last, and can transition some, but not so much that a brand new description ever applies for each.

Jinggu:  that spice range is different, it has transitioned, but again complex enough that a normal description of it would involve picking two or three related flavors that stand out.  To me it's closest to root spice, the main aspect range, still towards sassafrass, with a sweet and complex bark spice next as part of that range (not cinnamon; not a familiar spice taste).  It's all a little towards star anise but not nearly as sweet, and a little warmer, spanning more range.  It's cool the way the thick feel transitions to a pronounced aftertaste, the way that draws out.  The feel has a good weight and structure, rich with a hint of dryness, but not really dry.  Intensity is good, not a strong-flavored tea in the way some versions become overly earthy, or have rough edges that could smooth, but not subtle, it's flavorful.  It's quite pleasant. 


Mansa huang pian:  a different catchy flavor set, still towards a fruity version of an herb tisane.  It's not exactly pandan, as expressed in this round, but as close to that as anything else.  It's still a good bit like that aromatic aspect that fruit producing trees put out in Hawaii.  For a lot of tropical plant and tree range I've ran across the same examples of things here, but not that exact same thing.  This tea being more subtle with a little lighter feel wouldn't work as well for everyone, but then it's easier to notice that drinking these side by side, it stands out more.  It's pronounced enough that for drinking one a month later the other the difference would probably still stand out, just the degree of it wouldn't be as clear.

Jinggu left; not that much darker for having that character

Conclusions:

Two really nice teas.  The comparison did make sense, although I could've lived with it working out the other way, if it hadn't.  The Jinggu version is at a great place for aging effect, seemingly quite far along that process, and should only improve from there.  The Mansa was quite pleasant too, also covering interesting flavor range, with positive but less intense feel as well.

I haven't mentioned a single negative aspect in either, at least as I interpreted the teas and the concepts, except for subtlety (a limit to aspects present) in the case of the huang pian version.  Two years of aging is a good level for rounding off astringency and bitterness, which that tea probably had relatively little of to begin with. 

Of course if the teas were the same cost I'd definitely buy the Jinggu instead (odd it worked out that way, before that version sold out).  Huang pian is nice for being a completely different kind of thing, than both young sheng or mostly aged sheng, for being mild, pleasant, and interesting, just more subtle.  10 years old isn't enough time for most people to consider any sheng "fully aged" but this Jinggu is in a pleasant place now, regardless of where it started out.  It's not fully aged; within a few more years in an environment that's not dry, well-suited for preserving sheng character as it is, it will be different.  It's just fine as it is now.

Nyot Ou Laos huang pian from Anna of Kinnari Tea

I'm trying another tea from Anna, the owner of Kinnari Tea (of Laos), passed on by her in a visit here two months ago (with an earlier write-up of other Laos sheng versions here).  I'm not getting behind in trying teas, I'm staying behind.  I looked through what I had from her and there's a Moonlight White, one of my favorite types.  Somehow I felt like experiencing this one more today based on immediate inclination though, a huang pian version.  I don't think she sells this tea, to clarify that related to a "Kinnari Tea" reference; it's my impression that in this case she just passed on a sample of something interesting she had ran across.

I've botched her tea description before by reading the writing wrong so I'll cite the picture along with saying what it is:

I'm reading that as Nyot Ou Nammanoy Huang Pian, produced in October of 2017.  According to Maps Yot Ou is a district in Laos North-West of Phongsaly (likely an odd difference in transliteration), and I'd expext that other name to be a local village, although it is conceivable that it's a reference to something else.

Somehow it's not surprising that Maps doesn't know the names of local villages in Northern Laos yet.  Pulling that up in a search brings up a video by William of Farmerleaf about visiting that area, on a development initiative I've said more about in the past, here.  That first post I mentioned (reviewing another tea from Anna) talks through that connection, about an NGO initiative there related to improving options for local tea production, covered in this other reference link.  To me that's a fascinating subject, and both William's take on it and that other organization's reference information is well worth checking out.

Review

The initial flavor is interesting, and novel.  It's soft, in a different range than conventional sheng, which is to be expected; that's kind of the point.  Huang pian is yellow leaf tea, older leaf versions that had yellowed, also called "farmer's tea" due to being sorted out in processing and drank by farmers instead of being sold (due to not being regarded as a standard version the tea, not because it's better).  It's sweet, and a bit earthy, like a very mild wood or tree bark tone, even a bit towards cork, but not in a way that is musty or sour.  It's not really fully infused yet on this first round so I'll pass on a longer description on the next one.

On the next round intensity ramps way up, the underlying mineral tone and the rest that I'd already described, mild wood, tree bark, and a touch of cork.  There's a little spice in there too, probably; transition may draw that out to be more noticeable.  The main flavor is tree-bark, along the lines of birch or aspen tree bark, a thin paper-type version of one.  Pine bark has a much different scent, towards the needles, but just as close to the wood, with the bark a bit earthier than either.  Other hardwood tree bark is much warmer and more aromatic, closer to how a fermented version of cinnamon might come across (which is itself a type of tree bark:  Cinnamon is a spice obtained from the inner bark of several tree species from the genus Cinnamomum). 

One might wonder why I would know so much about tree bark.  I split a lot of firewood in my childhood, and even did some commercial logging at one point.  It was a hands-on labor-intensive rural sort of childhood.  I remember my sister once getting partly rolled under a full sized tree trunk we were moving around when she was probably around 6 or 7, which would've made me 8 or 9.  At least I wasn't the one using the chainsaw.  We cut and split a lot more firewood for use in a fireplace and wood-burner than that, the theme that comes up in Abraham Lincoln's childhood.

wild turkeys in the PA woods at my parent's house

 
Some might interpret this as me saying that my life was a bit rougher than it should have been, but I don't mean that.  Some other work I helped with went a bit overboard, construction work, building maintenance, and car restoration, but all of it made me who I am today.  Nothing I ever do is as hard as building a house at 13, not even getting through a difficult engineering program, or taking up unfamiliar work in a foreign country.  Back to the tea theme though.


The mineral range in this version is interesting; it comes across as a heavy type of rock and also as metal.  Bark, rock, and metal probably doesn't sound good as a description (although I'd imagine there are people who think it does), but it really works.  It's about the flavors balancing well together, in addition to each one being "clean" in effect and positive.  A little too much metal or the wrong effect from tree bark would make a tea seem undrinkable, but in the right balance it can be very nice, as this version is.

It's not all that close to other more conventional forms of pu'er, to use a comparison to help place it.  The overall effect is probably closer to a hei cha, to a mild and sweet version of a Hunan Fu brick tea, but the flavors aren't a perfect match for that.  It's tempting to express a related general description, to say that Hunan Fu brick teas follow some general pattern for aspects, but I've not tried so many that even the initial comparison is clearly justified.  Here's a review of version with golden flowers, and a review of a version without, as an initial start on that.

On the next infusion (the third) the metal / mineral picks up in relation to the tree bark / wood, but otherwise it's similar.  There's a catchy way in which the aftertaste stays along the center of your tongue; it's an effect you get from drinking from a natural spring or artesian well when the water is heavy with minerals.  Probably tied to certain minerals, as much as proportion, but I have no idea what those would be.

It makes you wonder what kind of intake of minerals a broad-type, consistently high volume tea drinker would take in, doesn't it?  Some kinds of water alone can have elevated levels of some minerals, and for this beverage we are extracting what the plants intentionally extracted from the ground water and stored in the leaves as functional cells and compounds like chlorophyll.  I'm not worried, more the opposite; I wonder what health benefits result from intake of the various compounds in teas, and from the minerals.  I don't spend a lot of time considering or researching that but at a guess I'll be healthier for drinking a lot of tea.  Or already am; I turned 50 a few months ago and it would be normal for me to look older at this age.  It's not as if I've never appeared in a photo in this blog but I'll go back through my Photos back-up to show a picture as related background.

probably not ideal for purpose; Bangkok has been smoggy lately

that works better; from two weeks ago

oddly that was the picture of them acting the least silly

On the next infusion (fourth) vegetal range gains back some ground, but the character is shifting a little.  It still contains some tree bark range, but green tree wood is ramping up, with more of what could be spice filling in.  To me--and this aspect is faint enough that this is even more an interpretation than most descriptions, which are all at least partly that--the spice is closest to nutmeg.  Nutmeg seems a complex-flavored spice to me, not one that expresses one simple flavor, in the same way cinnamon generally comes across (or at least to that extent; cinnamon has a lot going on too).  It probably only relates to part of what nutmeg tastes like.  I'll stop short of breaking nutmeg flavor into parts; although it's tempting to go there that would probably be incoherent.

4th infusion; they tend to start to look the same

On the next infusion (fifth) it could be my imagination but it seems like sweetness is picking up a little.  It was at a normal level before, enough to provide a good balance for the rest of the range, just not so notable that I was going on about it.  Usually the compounds that seem to come across as sweetness seem to infuse out earlier on, stronger over the first 3 or 4 infusions, so the effect is usually tapering off around the fifth infusion instead of ramping up.  It's probably just a quirk related to what I'm noticing.  It's roughly the same as the last infusion, and that one aspect is probably not really different.

I just brewed two infusions one right after the other, which reminds me of a point I made on another review (might as well make this blog repetitive); brewing temperature does change outcome, and waiting 10 minutes between infusions to allow the device and leaves to cool will change things.  I was messing around for at least 15 minutes prior to the fifth infusion, and now at the sixth round this tea was brewed hotter. 

It doesn't change much, throwing off that theory a little, but it is slightly different.  Wood-tone along the line of sticks had been strongest in that last round (which I didn't get around to noting) and this is closer to including a touch of cinnamon now.  That relates to the earlier-mentioned nutmeg; the two aren't that far apart.  Really it's in between cinnamon and nutmeg for this round, so tied to it even closer than only mentioning cinnamon implies.

Conclusions / interpretation

This tea is far from spent but it does seem to be fading a little on the seventh infusion.  Using longer infusion times, finally extending them to over 10 seconds, will adjust for that, although drinking two more on the light side would also work well.  Changing parameters related to infusion time will change aspect balance a little; it brings on a natural transition in what you experience, along with some compounds already rinsing out more than others.  This type of tea will probably be very pleasant out to very late rounds since the character was already in the range for where late-round brewing often goes (a bit woody, warm mineral, etc.), and that was already working out well.

It's a cool version of tea.  In one sense it's simple and straightforward; it's not thin or lacking in aftertaste, but compared to really intense sheng it's not doing as much with those ranges.  Flavors aren't necessarily intense, but they are unusual in the range they cover.  Small shifts in aspects or just in the balance of aspects make the tea seem different, since it is somewhat subtle, and expresses mineral and vegetal range in a novel way.  Per a different interpretation this could all just be regarded as "autumn leaf;" the character isn't so far from that, close enough that it also works as a description.

I'm not sure why this tea is like this.  It's a 2017 huang pian; that's what I know from the label, beyond a source area description that doesn't ring a bell, surely a place in Northern Laos.  It's says "10 / 2017" so this being an autumn harvest tea is a factor; those are more subtle, and likely different in character in standard ways that I'm not the best person to summarize.  It's a compressed tea; that's not unusual at all for Yunnan sheng versions, but production in places like Laos (and Vietnam, Thailand, and Myanmar) doesn't always relate to using that last processing step, re-softening and pressing the maocha, designed as much to enable the tea to travel better (initially), and now for aging storage, more than for the limited changes in character doing that causes.

I'm not sure why it's so brown, but then I suppose that is probably normal for how huang pian (yellow leaf) versions age over a year + time-frame.  Conventional sheng often starts out greener, or greenish-grey, more of a typical rock color, and then just darken, even over the first year, or especially then.  I think what I'm seeing for conventional aging patterns may not be typical, since it's very hot and humid here in Bangkok.  Sheng loses that new-sheng character fast, and an edgy young shu transitions to smoother and sweeter and complex in a different way fast too.  Teas tucked away in storage aren't experiencing the daily heat related to swings in temperature quite as much as I am (it's 34 C out now, 93 F, and it's not even the hot season, and only noon).

It was a nice tea to try; something interesting and pleasant in a novel way.

Comparing two 2005 huang pian sheng versions

Yiwu Mountain Pu'er huang pian left, Liquid Proust right (both 2005)

I see finishing up trying another two dozen or so samples I have around as the last step in training on variations in teas before moving onto another level of essentially doing more of the same.  It's interesting when the teas are new to me and interesting in a different way when styles repeat, a chance to see what range that type can cover.  I'm comparing this 2005 huang pian sent as part of a Liquid Proust set with another I've already reviewed from Yiwu Mountain Tea (with a number of posts relating to different sample sets), so I guess this is the latter. 

As background on the Yiwu Mountain Tea source goes, they are unique for offering different sample sets that cover different ages and types of teas, including some sold as a series of variously aged similar sheng versions.  They also sell a broad range of sheng focused on that origin theme, on Yiwu. 

Liquid Proust is something else altogether.  On the one hand that's a curator-themed vendor, selling a range of different teas (mostly sheng) selected for being interesting, and on the other they offer group-buy sets of different kinds.  I first did an interview post with Andrew Richardson about the group buy theme nearly two years ago (in particular about the Sheng Olympiad), and have reviewed most of the teas from this set I'm referring to over the last several months.

I have a 2019 Sheng Olympiad version set to get to, yet unopened (an offering not sold out yet, I don't think).  I'd like to clear through some of what's around before moving on, so let's get to that.

Review

In terms of appearance the Yiwu Mountain Tea version is darker, pressed into what looked to be a more conventional cake, a bit more compressed.  This Liquid Proust version still looks more like the original leaves.  Since it's really about brewed character I'll focus on that.  It is interesting how much darker the Yiwu Mountain Tea version looks and brews though, and odd the other tea could limit aging that much in a dozen years. 

I just tried a 2006 sheng version I bought in Chinatown recently so the baseline for that rate of transition is that much more familiar.  Humidity of the storage environment factors in as a main concern; stored a bit dryer a tea won't support the same level of growth of fungus and bacteria to convert tea compounds into other compounds.

I don't really get into what huang pian is here since I've covered that in other posts.  The short version:  "yellow leaf" tea produced from older leaves, sometimes referred to as "farmer's tea," often sorted out in other sheng versions.  Using that leaf type input results in a milder, sweeter form of final tea character, trading out some of the intensity and standard character for that positive but more limited aspect range.

First infusion

Yiwu Mountain Tea version left, Liquid Proust right, in all the pictures

Yiwu Mountain tea: In a sense this tea is serving as a comparison baseline for the other in this but I'll review both together.  The character is quite smooth; huang pian would be like that, and dozen-year-old version especially so.  Instead of moderating infusion time and intensity to offset some aspects (bitterness, etc.) this will be about getting the infusions strong enough to optimize flavor and other effect.  It's so smooth, warm, rich, and subtle that it starts to share character with well-aged shou mei.  There's some caramel warmth to the sweetness, and a mild and pleasant earthiness, like a light spice, with mild mineral adding depth.


Liquid Proust version:  it tastes slightly less fermented but not by much, not nearly as much a difference as the look indicates.  Maybe once both develop further that little bit will seem less significant, or the aspect range difference could increase.  It's subtle too, but in a different range.  There is a trace of caramel warmth and spice but where the other was towards cinnamon this is in a more aromatic range, with a hint of that old furniture character. 

Just to be clear I'm usually not referring to an "aged furniture" description as a tea tasting like an old couch sitting in someone's basement, or dusty wicker furniture up in an attic.  I had spent a lot of time in a very old local Bangkok temple, Wat Pho, visiting or even sleeping in old rooms storing furniture and religion-themed supporting equipment that had been around for decades, or I suppose possibly centuries.  More like that, like cleanly-stored, mostly wood, very well-aged furniture, with a touch of long-faded incense spice residue mixed in.  An "aged books" aspect isn't completely different but it is somewhat related.  Both teas' aspects should be clearer to break down next round.

Second infusion

Liquid Proust version (on the right) is a lot greener

Again difference in tea and brewed liquid color is amazing, kind of night and day.  I wouldn't necessarily guess that one isn't really aged as much, that the labeling is wrong, since it could be that different storage conditions cause fermentation to occur at different rates.  This YMT version doesn't seem musty, at all, so I don't think it was wet-stored in the sense of overdoing it to speed up aging, but it probably wasn't dry-stored either, somewhere in a happy medium. 

At a guess the LP version was stored quite dry, leading to the tea not transitioning nearly as much over that time.  Or it could not be as old as described, but I'm guessing that Andrew sourced this from someone who would sell it as it was, and would know themselves.  Without having that much background with aged huang pian I kind of don't have an opinion; these two examples are the only significantly aged huang pian I've tried.


Yiwu Mountain Tea:  more of the same.  The tea is nice, but it helps to love aged shou mei to appreciate it.  It has that warm, mildly earthy, caramel towards spice range, which is only diminished by being milder than it really needs to be.  I like it but it's quite different from most of the sheng I've tried, even related to similarly aged sheng.  One would expect that; it's a different thing for being made from "yellow" leaves.


LP:  a woody aspect adds to what the YMT version is like.  It doesn't come across as young as it looks; it has transitioned to quite mellow too.  Depending on interpretation that could be a positive transition, to a warm, mild, subtle but pleasant character, or it could've just faded instead.  The aromatic spices and aged furniture effect lends it some complexity, but it's complex in a very subtle way.  A subtle fullness to feel and slight dryness is nice for adding a bit more complexity, and some aftertaste also contributes to that.  The wood tone is like a well-aged fairly neutral wood, a very seasoned oak maybe, with the dryness potentially mapping onto a touch of balsa wood.  It's different.

Third infusion

both with a longer infusion time; the brewed liquid is darker

2007 Nannuo Changtai (left) and 2006 Zhong Cha for aging reference

YMT:  I let this infusion run around 30 seconds to try a stronger version.  It doesn't draw out any new aspects to experience, and the balance works as well or better lighter, it's just really subtle that way.  The earthiness ramps up to a feel experience more, nothing close to astringency, or even normal sheng feel-structure, but it's still there.  It comes across a little more as a very mild version of coffee (a trace of flavor aspects commonality; the rest of the brewed tea character is nothing at all like coffee).


LP:  vegetal range ramps up brewed stronger for this; the wood tone seems a little closer to a greener version of wood.  The aromatic spice aspect is still in the background but that intensity didn't increase as much as the other flavor and feel range.  I'll hold off on describing transitions until next round since these variations relate to intensity difference.

Fourth infusion

I like the balance of these better brewed lighter even though "really subtle" is the main description that comes to mind.  Probably infused for 20 seconds strikes the right balance (or maybe 30 from here; these have dropped intensity a bit already), to taste like enough to get it without the earthiness and feel standing out (mild feel, but still).  They don't seem to be transitioning enough to do a lot with describing that.  Even when a tea doesn't change flavors the proportion of what is there can shift, or feel-related aspects and such, but that wouldn't always be interesting to read about.

I'll cut this short since I'm off to a birthday party soon, for one of my daughter's friends.  In conclusion the teas were nice, just not typical of standard aged sheng experience, different in character.  There was a time when teas being this mild wouldn't have been interesting to me but with more exposure the range of what seems nice broadens naturally (or at least it did in my case).  I wouldn't go out of my way to drink silver needle / silver tips versions, or spend a lot on aged shou mei, but at least I can relate to and appreciate milder teas.

I think my favorite huang pian version that I tried so far was a shou version (or shu, I've heard might be more accurate), this Lao Man E origin version from Moychay.  It was quite subtle as shou / shu goes, which isn't necessarily what most shou drinkers are going for, but the sweetness, rich feel, and experience of depth that gave it were really cool.  It was a good bit stronger flavored tea version than these two; aging really has polished off rough edges until these teas are either refined or light in flavor, depending on the value interpretation one adds to that.

Of these two aged huang pian versions I think I liked the Yiwu Mountain Tea version better, but both were interesting and pleasant.  It seems like the Yiwu tea had probably aged a good bit more, most likely related to storage conditions, to being stored in a more humid environment, but not one that was humid enough to cause mustiness.  It's unusual to try a tea and not know the origin location--related to the other--but in a sense it doesn't matter so much, since that terroir input, growing conditions factor, processing, resulting original aspects character, and aging related transitions all mix as factors in how the Liquid Proust sample comes across now.  It certainly works well for trying an unusual version of sheng, the main point behind that particular intro sample set.

Kalani and her best friend at that birthday outing at a play area

that Bangkok play area, the Funarium

pretty cheerful about playing there

Comparing Moychay shou pu'er from Yongde, Menghai, and Lao Man E

I'm reviewing three additional ripe pu'er sent by Sergey Shevelev of Moychay.  I'll be going through a number of their teas since he sent quite a few to try.  I'd say more about that, the range of those, and how that works out with accepting and reviewing a lot of teas from one source (right, those are cakes), but this already runs a little long, so I'll keep that part short. 

I don't see a conflict with receiving tea for review, even in quantity greater than the 10 or 20 gram samples usually sent for review.  I think personal bias affects tea experience more than we could ever completely notice, that expecting or wanting to like a tea--or the opposite--might factor in.  Even though I just describe what I experience expectations could shift that a little.  I don't avoid adding subjective impression to reviews, mentioning if I like teas, as some tea bloggers do.  If I didn't like a tea I wouldn't review it, since it wouldn't make for a very interesting story (maybe unless a tea was bad in an interesting way, which rarely comes up).  If I just didn't like an aspect I'd mention that.

Did I ever mention a video introduction of their company in English?  I have covered visiting their shops in Moscow and St. Petersburg on a trip not long ago, but some of that was in travel themed posts on here (like this trip summary version, which barely mentions tea).

Teas list, reviewed in this post:


Yongde big tea tree 2016

Menghai Qiaomu (wild arbor) 2015

Lao Man E Huang Jin Ye big tree 2017


Descriptions like "wild arbor" and "big trees" can mean different things, but as with vendors who won't discuss tea tree ages (lots of them) it's as well to just describe teas to a limited extent and then evaluate them related to that experience.  Per my understanding usually qiaomu is used to indicate a growing area that's in a more natural state, or located around older growth areas, but not necessarily wild jungle species mixed-plant growing areas.  Links in a later section covering their tea descriptions lead to more background information.

I tasted these teas blind, beyond reading the front label, so I didn't know that the Lao Man E version was a huang pian or yellow leaf produced shou version, or atypical in any way.  Related to what I was saying about expectations it was probably as well to go through that without knowing.  The tea was clearly different than the other two, in more than one way, which these tasting notes cover.  I've reviewed a sheng version of that not so long ago, with more description of what that is in this post.

I'll add clearer photos of these cake labels and the teas and move onto tasting review.

Yongde big tree shou

Menghai Qiaomu (wild arbor)

Lao Man E Huang Jin Ye (huang pian / yellow leaf based shou)

Review

I'll say a little about these teas on the initial infusion but it really makes sense for the main review to start on the second round instead, and these could still transition a good bit into the third.

Yongde left, Menghai upper middle, Lao Man E lower right

The Yongde version is nice, full, rich, and smooth.  It could pick up a bit more aspect complexity, not showing as much in way of different forms of distinctive character as it might, but it may well develop further through another infusion.  It still sticks to within a relatively narrow range of "tastes like shou," that standard earthy and mineral-supported range, but the sweetness and clean flavor range is promising.

The Menghai is a bit deeper in flavor, more towards the earthy range one might describe as towards petroleum or tar, but in a generally good sense, if that makes sense.  I've experienced shou in that flavor range transition to a much sweeter, creamier effect later, so even if that range persists and is seen as negative it may well show this tea to have more potential than the first.

The Lao Man E Huang Jin Ye is more distinctive, but perhaps a bit thinner than the other two.  It's still complex, rich, and clean, and full-flavored (it is shou), but the aspect range is a little narrower and intensity a bit less.  It may still evolve into a more interesting range than the other two since this is only getting started. 

As the youngest it should still suffer the most from the effects of fermentation flavors remaining.  I would have expected that to take the form of rough edges, extra aspects instead of being more subtle, but I suppose it's possible that this tea was intentionally fermented to a lesser degree.  Or a more simple explanation:  this is by far the most whole-leaf of the three, relatively intact instead of chopped, so it may not be a fair comparison using the same infusion times.  Related to how all other teas work out using whole leaves instead of chopped should work out better, since the flavor produced is less over the same brewing time but better, with more infusions possible unless a longer time is used.

We'll see how all that plays out in the next few rounds.  It's a good sign that there was nothing for "off" flavors to get past, no fishiness, sourness, etc., unless someone was really opposed to a bit of petroleum effect in the second tea.

Second infusion

Infusion time was between 15 and 20 seconds (not timed; people into that type of carefully controlled process approach are reading the wrong blog).  I'll probably go with around 10 next round to see if that isn't more appropriate for this proportion, but regular readers will be familiar with the theme of messing around with variation for different reasons.

judging by color that brew intensity is a bit much, but shou can be ok like that

The Yongde tea is nice, not transitioned that much.  I'm reminded of a shou I bought from Yunnan Sourcing awhile back, a "Golden fruit" Taetea version.  It was sweet, clean, and decently complex but not unusual in any particular way, and not quite as complex or novel as it might be.  I wouldn't guess that aging would deepen flavor range in such a tea, but who knows.  I only bought that last year so it's too early to tell.  Both teas are good, and both very approachable, with no negative aspects to speak of, perhaps exactly what some are looking for in shou.  That other particular tea was well-regarded in online reviews and comments, and I did like it, but it came across to me as a bit plain.

The Menghai version is moving from petroleum range to dark wood and spice already, much improved.  It wasn't awful to begin with, really pleasant for my preferences, just unusual.  The feel is a bit thicker, and range of aspects all around a little deeper.  The aftertaste lasts longer than the first and the feel is a bit thicker, in addition to flavor range being more complex.  That complexity extends beyond a touch of fresh crude or tar (no longer the primary flavor range), into dark wood towards spice (the main flavor), with an underlying mineral and trace of char near French roast coffee.  This may be an exceptional tea for coffee lovers; we'll see how it plays out.

I think the Lao Man E is just lower in intensity due to brewing slower, due to not being a chopped tea.  It picks up a good bit of depth in this round but is still more subtle, almost surely brewing slower due to that effect.  If that guess is right the next round will correspond to where these other two are on the infusion cycle now, even though they've been exposed to the exact same infusion times.  And it will take a slightly longer infusion time to match brewed strength, with the tea holding up for a much longer infusion time overall than the other two.

It's clear why, isn't it?  CTC black teas brew out really fast due to being ground, with broken leaves brewing faster than whole versions.  That's why tea bags can get away with using a gram of tea dust to brew a cup, which is ready in 3 to 4 minutes, with the tea essentially spent after that time.  You can stretch a tea bag to get a second infusion but it's not so different than getting a better whole-leaf black tea to last into a third infusion using a standard Western approach and proportion.  It requires a longer brew time and the results aren't typically good.  For someone making tea from low-grade tea bags maybe a second cup being possible and the tea just tasting like something is already "good" results, but I mean the aspects quality drops instead.

Third infusion

I'll go short on the first two teas, around 10 seconds instead, and stick with 15 for the Lao Man E, per the last discussion.

Yongde left, Menghai upper middle, Lao Man E right (in all the photos)

The Yongde tea isn't transitioning much.  It is the lightest and sweetest of the three, clean flavored, and bit light and bright as shou goes (although it still does taste like shou), so some would prefer this over the others.  I'd think most shou drinkers would crave more intensity, more depth, and whatever positive complexity they could get, so maybe would appreciate the other two more.  The earthiness resembles a typical shou profile, dark woods and slate.  That brightness could be interpreted as a trace of fruit but I'm not completely getting that.  The depth of the complexity that is there might come across a little like cocoa, which works well for my preferences.

The Menghai packs a good bit more punch related to intensity and depth of aspects.  I think a fair comparison of these two teas would include letting both sit for another three years and trying them then, since I'd expect a lot of what is going on will give this tea a good starting point for aging transitions.  It's not that problematic fermentation tastes need to drop out, rather in this case that aspects complexity could potentially transition in an interesting and positive direction.  Again someone seeing parts of the dark wood, spice, roasted coffee range char, and petroleum-like aspect as problematic might like those transitioning to sweeter, creamier flavors, which I would expect, to some degree.  Or someone could really be into the tea like this.  It's as close to coffee as any tea ever gets, including matching some of the intensity and complexity in good coffee.  It has some sweetness to it too, and is clean in effect, so the overall balance isn't "off," just quite different than the first.

The Lao Man E really is just starting to open up now, as I suspected.  There's something unusual in the flavor aspects range I won't be doing justice too; always awkward putting that limitation out there.  It's along the lines of aged hardwood, mixed with a much more subtle version of spice than what I'm referring to in the second, with none of the petroleum or coffee char at all.  I'll take a guess:  that spice might be something like sandalwood.  Again I have a suspicion this tea isn't even in the normal full profile range it'll get to in the next infusion.  Brewing more whole leaf shou is a funny thing; it's almost always at least quite broken, if not actually chopped.  It's about as subtle as the first tea but has more going on; it's more unique.  But then I get the impression it hasn't really transitioned to its main range yet.  As with the second an aftertaste effect lingers with this tea, but in a different form.

Editing note:  it is odd leaving these notes in the original form, without describing why that flavor range and intensity is so different, because it's huang pian, or yellow leaf tea.  One would expect it to be milder and sweeter, with flavors in a different range, based on that.

Fourth infusion

trying the teas nice and light; shou works well across a broad range

The Yongde version might be picking up a bit more spice, but otherwise it's unchanged.  It is complex enough that if someone tried to interpret different types of fruit there would be something there to base that on, or the cocoa I'd mentioned, but it comes across as a less broad or distinct flavor set than it might, just as slightly complex.  Again it works well for being a light, clean shou version.

Creaminess picks up a bit in the Menghai version, with that coffee char effect moving more into a Guiness stout effect.  The flavors "clean up" a bit too, with some of the earthiness one might interpret as petroleum related dropping out.  The spice range doesn't really develop but that sweeter, creamier effect is nice, and it all balances the best of any infusion.  It's an interesting version of shou, to me a very positive one, but it might take a shou drinker to relate to it, where the first isn't hard to relate to at all, just slightly less complex and interesting.

The Lao Man E changed the most this round; not really surprising.  The feel of this tea is really something; about as thick as teas tend to get.  And the aftertaste has an unusual character, maybe just related to being intense, or maybe there's more to it, something else adding to that effect.  Related to flavors range the tea is a bit woody, with an unusual spice range persisting.  It moved from aged hardwood into autumn leaf, with the spice range muting just a little.  Maybe that's sandalwood or maybe that's not; it's been a long time since I've burned incense. 

More than gets communicated about any one of these aspects this tea really comes together as an overall experience.  With that flavor being a little more subtle than the other two I wouldn't be surprised if it ages in terms of developing, of aging and fermenting a bit more in a more conventional sense, instead of already-present fermentation related aspects settling out or transitioning.  Of course that's just a guess; I suppose it could just fade.

Fifth infusion

Yongde lower left, Menghai upper middle, Lao Man E lower right

My patience for making tasting notes is fading faster than these teas are so this might be it.  It will be interesting seeing how these three continue on and transition in later rounds, or which fades faster, but even though I'm using small tasting gaiwans for this I don't think I'm going to make it through nearly 30 cups of tea to get there.  Of course I'm really feeling these teas already; I don't talk about "qi" all that much in reviews but one or more of these contributes more of that than is typical.  That's one thing you give up in combined tasting; I don't know which tea version is causing that effect.  Having cakes to work from versus small samples I'll experience each on its own later but probably will never check back in about that; there's just too much to say about too many things.

The Yongde might be fading a bit already.  It would be possible to bump up infusion time a little (I only let these go around 15 seconds, still on relatively short times), but it may be on the downhill side.  It's not as if it only has a couple more infusions left in it, but character will change based on the effect of using longer times.  It might be as positive as it's been, with sweetness and cocoa coming out just a little more, but the overall range might thin a little too.

The Menghai is thinning just a little too; these teas probably are ready for over 20 second infusion times.  They work well a little thinner too; it's not as if there's not still a lot going on.  I probably like shou brewed a bit stronger than some, not thin at all, since to me that effect is part of the appeal of the type.  Someone else might push it further and drink tea made more like coffee, so the point here is that I tend to drink it prepared as more intense than other tea types.  I like sheng on the very thin side, plenty intense prepared that way.  Aspects aren't transitioning enough to say more about that.

I don't think the Lao Man E is lightening, although it was more subtle in the earlier rounds too.  It's more that the three evened up for intensity and infusion strength in this round.  I should probably let the three go for a bit over 20 seconds for one more round to say where transition seems to be headed before leaving off.  I've essentially already expressed it but this Lao Man E isn't as exceptional in terms of flavor (that's smooth and a bit light, with limited compensating complexity, just a little different for what's there), but the overall effect related to all the other aspects is really unique.  I've never experienced a shou with a feel this full and the aftertaste experience is quite persistent, and somehow unusual beyond that.

Sixth infusion (this really will be it)

This tea's flavor (the Yongde) is starting to transition to slightly woodier, normal for later rounds.  It would've been possible to drink these teas quite a bit lighter and they'd be at this point a few infusions later, but that's just a matter of preference.  As I said I like shou on the stronger side compared to most other teas.  Aged shou mei can be comparable; those can be nice brewed so thick that the aspects would be just as nice lighter, to stress the feel effect, and just to experience the intensity.

The Menghai is where a thinner, less complex shou might have been the whole time.  Woodiness also picks up in this tea, and complexity thins.  It's still clean and positive, and it still balances well, but the overall range drops back.

The thickness of the Lao Man E stands out in comparison to the others, and the intensity on those other levels, the complexity and aftertaste.  It is holding up better, lasting longer, or put another way just brewing slower.  The three teas are the closest to each other that they've been in flavor range.  This still has that one woodiness related spice effect that gives it a bit of extra depth. 

a Loa Man E leaf, with a baht for scale (about the size of a penny)

Conclusion

I'll add the vendor descriptions here to see what they thought.  I've not read them; back to the blind tasting idea.  There's a chance they've flagged a couple of flavor range aspects I'd agree with that could change my taste-list description by that little bit, after trying them again and thinking it through.  Tasting a tea only once, and especially tasting three at once, tends to diminish overall resolution of what you pick up.  These teas have been around here for awhile, a month and a half or so, so they're not going through that transition related to shipping throwing them off, but I'd expect exposure to this hot, humid Bangkok air and another month or two of storage will get them all opened up a bit more.

the high is 33 C today, but it's 31 right now.  balmy!

I liked all three teas; they were all just quite different.  The Yongde might be preferable to people who like a lighter, sweeter shou, and the Menghai showed the most complexity at this point, at least in terms of flavor.  That flavor range (dark wood, spice, slight char, initial petroleum transitioning to Guiness stout creaminess) might not be for everyone but I'd think shou lovers would relate well to it, and I'd expect it to be even more developed and positive in another couple of years.


The Lao Man E is something else; not necessarily the best of the three related to flavors, at least at this point, but with the most aspects complexity by far counting all range.  People will sometimes convey how flavors that could be interpreted as a bit off are an expression of shou potential, of how that touch of petroleum in the Menghai could transition well to something else, and I have experienced that in other shou.  The Lao Man E is subtle, so something else would have to be going on for the tea to develop further. 

Of course I found out after the tasting session that it was huang pian (yellow leaf), made from a different type of leaf source.  I still wonder if it couldn't have been fermented less, but that factor seems likely to have caused that unique character, the subtlety, and enabled that unusual flavor range to emerge, the spice.  I'm really not sure what all that means for aging, or if the intensity of other aspects really means it has more potential for aging or not.  That kind of doesn't match conventional wisdom with sheng, where a tea being intense on the undrinkable side is often regarded as showing positive potential for aging.  I'll say more about that in the form of an example after I touch on the Moychay site descriptions.

Moychay site descriptions

These citations are limited mostly to descriptions of taste, including reference to current price, since it was also there.  All of these are in-house, commissioned productions, not resold or re-labeled teas.


Yongde Dashu Shu Cha (Moychay.com, 2016), 100 g., $9.04

Ripe puer «Yongde Big Tee Trees, grown in Yongde district (Lincang County)»:  The bouquet of brewed tea is mature, with notes of wood, prunes and baked chestnuts. The aroma is warm and deep, nutty with notes of prunes. The taste is full-bodied and sappy, velvety, sweetish, with light fruity sourness and lingering finish.


Menghai Qiaomu Shu Cha (Moychay.com, 2015), 357 g. $25.37

Ripe puer «Big Tee Trees, grown in Menghai County (Xishuangbanna) »The bouquet of brewed tea is mature, nutty, with notes of wood, prunes, rustic bread and baked chestnuts. The aroma is warm and deep, nutty with notes of nuts and prunes. The taste is full-bodied and sappy, velvety, sweetish, with light fruity sourness and lingering finish.


Lao Man E Huang Jian Ye (Moychay.com, 2017), 357 g. $45.93

Ripe puer «Golden Leaf, grown near Lao Man E village (Mount Bulangshan, Menghai county, Xishuangbanna)» The bouquet of brewed tea is mature, with notes of wood, prunes, pastry and baked chestnuts. The aroma is warm and deep, nutty with notes of smoked prunes. The taste is full-bodied and sappy, velvety, sweetish, with light fruity sourness and lingering finish.


A few things stand out.  The short version about huang pian, or yellow / golden leaf source tea:  it's the older or yellowed leaves harvested, also referred to as "farmer's tea."  In one sense it's a lower grade of material and in another it's just a different thing.  The taste is a bit sweeter, and milder, slightly earthy, and just different.  That explains why a cake of tea from a highly sought after region is priced within the normal range of medium quality level pu'er (higher than average for medium quality teas or factory teas, but lower than one would expect from that area).


Beyond that part all the descriptions sound a bit the same; they differ but they overlap.  They do vary, and I don't really disagree with them outlining common ground (they are all shou; the type runs along the same lines), or the specifics in those descriptions, although I described each relatively differently.  The wood I did mention, although it seems too vague to just leave that at wood, since that covers so much range.  Baked chestnuts could really apply to a lot of shou; lots of versions have a rich fullness that extends to sweetness that could be interpreted as that.  The prunes, pastry and the rest; why not.  As shou tends to go all three were quite complex and that's going to come across differently to lots of people.  Once you think prune or chestnut you're going to "get" that.  It seems as well to not dwell on the longish review section and these interpretations not overlapping on some finer points.


Those teas seem a good value, related to pricing versus what I'd expected.  Shou does often run a bit on the inexpensive side compared to sheng but all three had interesting and very uniformly positive character.  The first, the Yongde, seemed like a good light version of an "everyday drinker," giving up a little in uniqueness and complexity to the others, but probably exactly what some people would be looking for.  The second seemed like it has great potential to even out into a really complex and interesting tea in a couple more years, and it's quite nice now.  The third was the most novel, and suitable for people looking for something different.  I'm not sure if its relatively subtle nature means that it might not gain further complexity with more time or transition much but it has unique character already.  I've not had any shou with a thicker feel or more pronounced aftertaste, and that sandalwood spice range aspect (for lack of a more informed wood-spice guess) is pretty cool.

Those last two Moychay loose shou I tried may have been slightly more developed, with just a little more depth, but then having a good number of extra years to rest may have evened them out and allowed them to transition any slightly rough edges into interesting complexity.  These three versions were more than ready now, not off in any way, not expressing "processing tastes" that needed time to fade.  If anything per one strand of conventional wisdom they should be a little edgier or more strange in different ways to have the best character to age.  You definitely don't want your shou to taste like fish or charcoal in order for that to fade, though, and I'm not completely sure what odd character they should have.

One last tangent about aging sheng

While I'm on the subject of aging I'll mention something only vaguely related to make a comparable point; it's not as if this is already running long.  I just tried a 2014 Jia Ji Dayi tuocha I bought a couple of years ago that tasted a bit like aspirin back then.  I'll cite a description from that:

It's smokey, a little bitter, right in the middle between chewing on an aspirin and drinking a softer green tea version, something decent. 

from two years ago; it's the same but slightly darker

The tea is really nice now, based on trying it again a few days ago.  The bitterness is largely faded, the smoke moderated, and richer, smoother, sweeter tones have picked up.  Earlier rounds are nice, balanced and catchy, but later ones include a cool pine needle type of effect, not so different than one that shows up buds heavy black teas.  I'd guess this tea would have been much slower to transition in a less hot and humid environment, but at this rate in a couple more years it'll really be something.  I should buy another half dozen, if I can find them.  My understanding is that shou pu'er aging is completely different, as I've already described earlier in the post.

So the tie-in here was that after experiencing some transition patterns a tea drinker can sort of predict a pu'er's future, to a limited extent.  I've just described some transition from a sheng, in this case from less drinkable to quite pleasant, and I've been going on about that subject for nearly a year.  I don't have the same level of exposure with shou but I've been through a little with that.  Four years ago I bought three Dayi 7572 cakes in a yearly production sequence  as a step towards that.  I haven't been focusing on shou much but I've tried some in between, although maybe only a dozen or so. 

These last five Moychay shou versions have been a great experience in continuing on with exploration.  I can say if the guesses about aging these three works out as expected in a couple of years, but I do have other versions still to try, so more to go on related to experiencing different versions and aging effects.